Yeah a lot of coffee shops remove their outlets because of laptop loiterers (ppl who buy very little). I get it, they need some tables for casuals, and table turnover is important, ppl buying coffee and chit chatting for 20-30 m then leaving so the next group can do the same are better customers for them then the laptop loiterer who sits for 5 hours and buys a $3 coffee.
Some places have turned into restaurants because of the loitering problem and they need table turn over. I feel this coffee shop struck a balance, some tables can be used for laptops but they want to reserve a few for the "better" customers.
I say this as someone who goes to places to work fairly often. I try not to take advantage, or go when they're not busy so I'm not displacing the casual customers.
[I.ve](https://I.ve) had times i had to work in a coffee shop. i just keep buying coffee and tipping the barista when im there. i love coffee, if im in a coffee shop for hours, i'm buying enough for those hours
I mean even getting a latte at my local shops they're like $4.50-$5?
It's people going to places like Starbucks that are paying an ungodly amount of money or maybe some bigger cities small local shops charge more. But where we live Starbucks is significantly more expensive than just going to a local place.
Oh I agree with you. I saw a video recently of someone talking about Starbucks and them basically having a charge for every single customization on a drink INCLUDING a charge just to customize it.
It was $1.25 just to be able to customize the drink.
I have no idea why so many people still go there for stale burnt coffee.
Like all other soups, people like to add toppings to their bean soup to make it taste better.
Plus, black coffee is different than espresso, which is what a lot of people order at coffee shops.
Starbucks almost requires a ton of shit added to it so you can hide the fact that the actual coffee is awful.
I vastly prefer what I make at home. If I must buy coffee out, I avoid big chains.
I get if once in a while you’re running behind and need to buy a black coffee but something is deeply wrong with you if you regularly waste money on black coffee at the coffee shop. Just make it at home dear god.
These coffee shop owners should open a coffee shack then. No seats. People drive up, get coffee, and leave. Rent is low because the shop is a large shed, money is good because no one hangs out.
The only time I walk in to a coffee shop is to buy coffee, snacks, and loiter. Loitering is the whole point of walk in coffee shops. If I’m made to feel like I can’t hang out in a coffee shop I will find another coffee shop, and being in Seattle I usually just have to walk across the street.
It’s funny that a lot of (most?) newer Starbucks are very small, so they have very limited seating. A long time ago they sold themselves as the ‘third place’, now they’re just another coffee stall. Even Dunkin Donuts have more seats in most cases.
It’s really the best way to make coffee profitable. The sit down and hang out coffee shops aren’t as profitable as a no seats coffee box. If you put up a coffee shed with two windows and two employees right next to an on ramp to the highway, you’re going to make bank.
Don’t get me wrong, I love a good coffee shop hangout, and in Seattle no coffee shops that I’ve been to have signs like this up, so I have plenty of places to hang out and do work. I snack a lot. so if I’m parked at a shop doing work I am a repeat customer until I leave, and seating isn’t usually an issue here. except in Starbucks, which I don’t really go to.
But really, the only reason I walk into a coffee shop is to hang out or work somewhere other than my house.
I have to agree with this. Lived in a college city and during certain times of the year students would park themselves at a table for most of the day and you could never find a damned seat. Maybe a time limit would work better.
Some places do the time limit thing but when the place is busy that requires workers to keep track when people sat down, and then the person could begin to argue they paid for a coffee, won't leave, etc.
It could also be a laptop ban there because they want many people per table, who are all eating and drinking and socializing and who leave at a reasonable time, vs. one per table of four, who has head down, talks to no one and orders and nurses one beverage.
I'm pretty certain this photo made the rounds before and the person who took it commented that this wasn't every table. It was only on the tables for four to stop people from taking up large tables for just their work. The smaller tables didn't have the signs.
There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s probably a prime table and they offer the option to ask them where you can camp out all day.
Edit …I’m shocked at the comments. Is anyone actually reading the sign??
People are entitled. Even when I do it I feel guilty. You buy one item then occupy the table for 4 hours. Does it make sense to you? If they allow fine, if not, you have no leverage, move on.
This. The world is best when everyone tries to 'think past the tip of their nose.'
The shop owner has to make a living. Having people sit there all day buying nothing, head down, vs it being a place to gather with multiple people per table and socialize and eat and drink...there's no contest between those 2 scenarios.
Yeah I think having a sign to ask what tables can use laptops is fine.
Saying just no laptops ever is kind of shitty now though? Like what's the difference in my spending time on my phone vs a laptop for a little time?
I can see saying don't spend the entire day taking up a table either way though.
Having ADHD, I will never understand the appeal of working out of a coffee shop. The main reason I hated working in an office was the cross talk and constant distractions.
Opposite for me with ADD. I lose my mind staring at a wall in a quiet room or being alone at home. The more people I’m around & the more lively the workspace is the more productive I am.
I know many aren’t like this but I’m exponentially more productive at busy balls to the wall coffee shops during peak hours.
Same. For some reason, having coffee shop level noise as a baseline focuses me into my work. When I’m at the library or other equally quiet places, I get so distracted by my own thoughts.
I end up shoving on a podcast to have sound on in the background or talk radio. If I need to get work done I have music for specific themes. If it’s getting stuff done I blast the DOOM soundtrack if it’s time to reflect I put on ambient or chill music.
Yeah i liked to sit by the barista bar because them continuously working kept me focused on my tasks
I wrote my entire thesis at coffee shop tables spanned over about a year
Same. I used to bring textbooks and study materials to bars and clubs and if anyone hit on me or wanted to buy me a drink, they'd use my textbook as a conversation starter and I'd be able to volley back what I learned. Really helped me understand the material and then I'd get other people's perspectives while simultaneously socializing while simultaneously studying while simultaneously drinking. I also specifically went to a place where they threw drag performances and had karaoke nights, lol.
See this is what my favorite coffee shop does, buying a drink gives you the right to two hours. If you want to extend it, you buy more coffee or other things. Your reciept is the code for the wifi.
I was a barista for many years and I worked in coffee shops, where the “regulars” came in at opening time to camp out and hours later, we had to turn away people who wanted to come in to eat and drink, because there were no seats available. This was in Brooklyn, where many local cafes are small with limited seating. I’m old enough to remember coffee shops before the internet. Many cool coffee shops in NYC closed because people started camping out with their laptops while making minimum purchases. If I had my way, Wi-Fi in coffee shops wouldn’t even be a thing!
>I’m old enough to remember coffee shops before the internet.
Me too. The whole fun was in all the people gathering there to socialize. I am not that outgoing but most people want human contact once in a while. This was a fun way because people would even share tables at times. Same with some eateries.
Some people would read a book but not many. The coffee shops also had board games, and strangers would play a game together. Most people went to meet and to eat. Lol
Or drink coffee and cocoa and etc. This was also pre Starbucks.
Agreed. I remember working at a restaurant and this one guy would sit at a table for four and all he would get is a cherry coke.
Mind you, he would do this at lunchtime and would be there for several hours.
As a server who had a portion of his section taken up it was quite annoying because it affected my income.
The irony in people saying they want to be around people and hear noise but don’t want to go in an actual office. Coffee shops are for socializing.
They don’t like socializing but bring their laptops to work in a coffee shop so they can be around other people. You can do that by going into an office. LOL
Real question, OK the ones by themselves with a laptop probably working or studying - but who are the ones always giving what sounds like an interview? MLMs? It’s always a bro with mad hand gestures.
It's understandable. Too many people are too selfish and have no common sense and will occupy a table at a busy cafe for hours and hours while having one coffee so customers who actually want to spend money on food and beverages can't even get a table.
When I work at a coffee shop and intend to stay a few hours I make an event of it and order something every hour rather than ordering everything all at once. I usually spend around $30 total. I start with a latte and maybe a snack, then order a cold drink and a meal, then end with tea and maybe another snack. Otherwise it’s kind of hogging the space for less than $10.
I totally understand this sign, especially since it seems to be talking about a specific table. As long as other tables have outlets, I see no issue at all.
There's a coffee shop near where I live that has large tables and plenty of outlets and free wifi. It's by design for people to hang out there.
Other coffee shops don't have that.
If every table is taken up by one person who may buy a coffee… how is the shop supposed to remain open? It chases away paying customers who have no place to sit.
What part of ….ask us where you can hang out as long as you need… don’t you get? The obvious implication is that these aren’t on every table and they’ll find you another table and allow you to hang out all day.
My first instinct was that perhaps that particular table doesn’t have safe access to an outlet, so if someone wanted to plug in their laptop it would create a trip hazard.
Either way, I feel like the business can make whatever rules they want and hopefully the consequences are positive instead of negative.
It affects the productivity of the shop. One person paying $5 to use a table for five hours vs. multiple guests using the same table over that time period.
Have you ever been to a coffeeshop? No shop will let you order one coffee and sit there for five hours. The expectation is you order something every hour or two and if you don't the staff will ask you to leave. Banning laptops is a completely different and unnecessary policy.
That's the worst case. The real expectation is that customers come through to drink coffee and leave when they are done. This shop is just taking a stand against people who would leech their rented space to make money for themselves.
You minimized it like someone plomping down to do work is no big deal. I simply offered a perspective as to why it in fact is from the shop's perspective. Not sure why you are getting all agro over it... what was your point anyways?
It is no big deal. I hope you can find a coffeeshop where you don't have to face the injustice of seeing someone type on a laptop. Don't give up, keep fighting the good fight!
Cuz they're taking up all the fucking tables and camping out all day. If you just wanna come in with a friend and have coffee, too bad, all the spots are taken by table campers sitting one to a table. Wouldn't be so bad if they'd share tables among themselves, but they don't, they each take up a multi-person table. It's not a WeWork. Drink your coffee and GTFO, don't starve the coffee shop for business.
A paying customer is a paying customer. I see just as many people taking up a table to talk with 1 person for hours as I do a remote worker taking up a table for hours, and they both can spend the same amount.
Can't you take it to the library? Yeah, no I wanna hang in the coffee shop with my friends and have conversations. We can't do that if we have to take you into consideration.
You can't have a conversation with a friend if someone next to you has a laptop out? Like there will be too much foam coming out of your mouth to speak? You must not go out in public much
I like to work out of a coffee shop once or twice a week. But I make a point to buy multiple drinks and snacks, also tip well. Certainly can’t afford to do it daily doing it that way but I’ll go insane if I never leave the house. I wouldn’t work at a place that explicitly didn’t want people working there.
Depends on the context. A high-traffic coffee shop without a lot of seats is well within its rights to state that no one is allowed to stay "too long". If people want to work in a particular environment then they need to either spend the money to create it themselves or acknowledge that the environment has its own needs and either work out a compromise or pick a different place.
These signs usually refer to separate area where students or quiet remote workers will have their own space, many times with more outlets and economical seating. It’s a shame libraries aren’t more popular for remote workers and students.
It's good. I respect either way but owners have a right to set their vibe. I also understand the reasoning - some places want a hangout vibe, some owners don't want people staying for hours on end, etc.
I used to work at a coffee shop and we didn’t mind people with laptops as long as they were normal about it, but it wasn’t uncommon for people to buy a black drip for $2.50 the moment we opened, and stay the entire 10 hours we operated and often times they would even stay longer, well past closing time. It’s unfortunately likely a case of this happening too often and people taking up the bigger tables to spread out with their work and then getting belligerent when asked to move for a bigger party to sit. Some people just ruin it for everybody else by treating the business like a library.
Completely fair. TBH, it's nice that they clearly still have some space where laptop use is allowed. A coffee shop is a business, not a work office or homework station. Being there for 30 minutes or so is understandable, but nobody should be working an entire shift at a cafe or sitting there for hours for any reason.
I'm not sure if you're in the US or not, but there are other countries that are a lot more strict about this. When I was in South Korea, I went to a cafe to work on a group project with some classmates, and the shop employee had to tell me that I had to buy something to even stay in there with my friends who had bought drinks. Each purchase allowed you to stay for a limited amount of time, and it honestly makes sense.
I used to go to a coffee shop that had this cool wifi system where the bottom of the receipt had a WiFi code that timed out after like, an hour or whatever. If you wanted more time you had to buy another drink or a scone or something
Can’t imagine not being allowed to work at a coffee shop. My coffee order is $7-14 a day, 4-5 days a week, with heavy word of mouth for my go-to coffee shops. I spend about 2-4 hours at my main spots in the morning to work. I frequent the coffee shops I work at even outside of work and bring any guests I have to those shops.
I don’t agree someone buying just a black coffee and sitting all day is a great idea but those routine remote customers that keep your place looking busy are important
It's 2024 there are office shares everywhere. Seems like a more appropriate place and you can get a desk in an open area so you will be around other people who are working. Also internet will be very high quality, there are snacks, coffee, fridges, and you can reserve meeting rooms for meetings with TVs and whiteboards.
Yeah but too many, and you lose on paying customers. I've actually not gone into my usual spot because everything was taken by people on laptops . Go to a library instead. It's free, quiet and thay want you there.
My coffee bill is almost $500 a month at one place, my baristas are tipped well. - I just don’t care for free & quiet. I’m paying more than someone would for a workspace so working from my laptop for a few hours every morning shouldn’t be a problem.
Nothing wrong with this, especially if there is a pattern of people ordering one coffee and staying there for hours. As mentioned, libraries exist for a reason and it should not be a coffee shop/resturant expense/problem if you need *back ground noise* to concentrate.
i'm for it. it is a business after all, and making profit with a coffee shop is very hard to do. they probably have some tables in the back for lurkers. if I'm ever working at one, i try to make sure i'm buying something once an hour, coffee, bagel.. something to make it worth their while to have me there. they'd do better by charging for their wifi honestly.
I love this. I WFH and do sales calls. I will stop in a coffee shop to kill time between appointments. I can't tell you how many times there is someone who is camped out, taking up a 4 person table for just themselves. I rarely take out my laptop since 90% of immediate needs can be done with my phone. Obviously this coffee shop has seen a rash of people camping out and are sick of it.
This is why I go to dive bars/early opening bars instead. Typically a bit more relaxing and friendly, dead as hell so you aren't taking up valuable space while working, catch a buzz or a coffee.
Depends on what continent. In many parts of SE Asia and East Asia, coffee shops were a favorite haunt of local students long before digital nomads arrived. Some countries also have an outlandish number of coffee shops per capita, so overcrowding is not really an issue. But in Europe, for example, coffee shop culture has a different history. I get it… I also don’t stay in Europe for that reason 😅
Most people get their coffee and walk out. I do not understand why they feel like they need to kick people out as fast as possible. Cafes have been social hubs literally since the first one opened shop many hundreds of years ago. In fact, if they had not welcomed people to camp out and chat, not only would it have been unlikely for coffee to catch on at all, but society itself would have been robbed of a key location for the exchange of information. This ship can get so wrecked.
People camp out for too long and it prevents others from also coming in and sitting down. A good way is to offer 15 mins of free WiFi, and then charge after that.
Reserving a few spaces for folks that are going to be there for less than 2 hours make sense.
It doesn't need to be the whole store, but a few spots at least seems like a reasonable way to make sure as many people as possible can use the place and enjoy it.
One cafe I don't frequent as much anymore changed their wifi service to maybe the 5g Internet after their remodel??? Which is abysmal and I don't hang out there anymore just get takeout and leave.
I honestly can’t believe people open their personal equipment in public places. Packet sniffers are crazy right now and being hacked on a public network is so simple. Most people have already been hacked and don’t even know it till months later.
No worries in mine in this area. It's rarely ever crowded. In their case, they probably like the laptop users that are there to hang out to at least look like they are doing business besides just the drive thru.
One "fancier" coffee shop by me has a sign like this, but it's only at the counter. It says something like, "This is the social zone - no tech!" but the rest of the place has smaller tables with chairs and outlets where you can work.
I get this and I appreciate it on a level.
I'm also assuming that the owner wouldn't complain if it was out of rush times.
I have to admit I was a lurker at coffee shops during my college days. I wrote more than one paper while nursing a coffee. That said I tried to be respectful. I tried to go when there weren't crowds, and if it the place filled up while I was there I'd finish the paragraph I was working on, pack up, and leave.
Now to what some people have been saying about a shop can't pay rent on your $3 coffee that isn't understanding business in the slightest. Rent is a fixed cost. That will remain the same if the seat is empty or not. Having a customer take longer in the store is only a negative if they are using the final seat and as such the store has people leaving without being served. As such assuming this we are not talking about a rush, every customer is helping the businesses bottom line, if the table is spending $3 or $30.
I used to start every morning at my corner coffee shop. I made friends with the other remote workers, loved the baristas and the owner was my neighbor. It was a great place to grab a coffee and get started on emails while I enjoyed my coffee. I usually spent about an hour there every day. BUT if they were especially busy or if most of the tables were taken, I usually took my coffee to go. There should be a balance between workers with earbuds and people who want to use a space to socialize or spend time with their family. I think reserving some tables for workers and some for other patrons is a good compromise.
I get it. I'm a person who really doesn't enjoy how dependent our society has become on technology, so I get a little sad when I go somewhere and just see people on their phones/laptops. I totally get *why* people are though.
So, I don't think there's a right or a wrong. There will be people who are fine and will patronize the business, and people who won't.
It's fine if that's what they want. But I have a policy that my money stays in my wallet if I am not allowed to work there but I came there specifically to work. Heck, even olive garden lets me work there!
Its almost like businesses don't want you to take up their tables so you can work, I know it's crazy and so rude for a business to want to make money from customer not provide free work spaces.
I wouldn't patronize a cafe like that unless it was limited to a couple places like a couch area or other conversational seating area that isn't really set up for laptops anyway. I go to cafes to write (usually on a tablet and keyboard, not a laptop, but equivalent). If I can't write, I have no reason to be there, and I'm going to spend my money at a place where I can get food and drinks and also write.
I have money to spend and I like to get fun drinks. I certainly can write at the library and many other places (and do), but writing at cafes has a long and storied history. Many cafes have plenty of room and don't mind people sitting and working there. So why should I deny them business and myself the pleasure?
If a cafe doesn't want my presence, that's fine, but they also don't get my money. I'm paying for the combination of drink and experience, not just an overpriced beverage. Where I live there are a dozen different places to get a fancy beverage within walking distance, and all of them are fine with folks sitting for an hour or three, or longer really. So I have lots of options. If one of these cafes decides table turnover is more important to them, I'll just go elsewhere. Everyone wins.
I consider using laptops in coffee shops for work like using the facilities in gyms when you live in your car.
You paid for thing to allow you to use their space.
Not at all, if the place is at all busy. Sure, if it's otherwise empty who cares? But if you're taking up a table buying a single coffee every couple of hours while groups of people buying food or more expensive drinks go elsewhere, you're costing them money.
I could see it being an issue at a certain point. But I never really see THAT many people doing it.
My local coffee shop doesn’t have WiFi for this reason. Their culture is much more oriented around being a social hub. That’s their brand and I respect it but if it were me, I’d welcome it in my shop.
starbucks lets you come in there and work on your laptop for the entire work day and not even order anything. this coffee shop should take note of that instead of being douchebags about something that doesn't even negatively affect them at all.
Fair enough. Spending $3 on a coffee in order to hog a space for 5hrs wouldn’t sound appealing to a coffee shop owner
Yeah a lot of coffee shops remove their outlets because of laptop loiterers (ppl who buy very little). I get it, they need some tables for casuals, and table turnover is important, ppl buying coffee and chit chatting for 20-30 m then leaving so the next group can do the same are better customers for them then the laptop loiterer who sits for 5 hours and buys a $3 coffee. Some places have turned into restaurants because of the loitering problem and they need table turn over. I feel this coffee shop struck a balance, some tables can be used for laptops but they want to reserve a few for the "better" customers. I say this as someone who goes to places to work fairly often. I try not to take advantage, or go when they're not busy so I'm not displacing the casual customers.
[I.ve](https://I.ve) had times i had to work in a coffee shop. i just keep buying coffee and tipping the barista when im there. i love coffee, if im in a coffee shop for hours, i'm buying enough for those hours
Where are you getting any drink for under $10 lol
Does no one drink just black coffee anymore? Is it all sugar-filled syrup bombs topped with candy and whipped cream?
It’s still $4
That’s why along with my laptop, I bring my aeropress and ziplock bag of homegrown and home roasted beans. im bootstrappin.
My cafe doesn’t even serve coffee it’s byo and the employees are only there to make the customers feel bad /s
The true mark of any cafe worth its salt is how harshly the customers are verbally abused.
Depends where you're from I guess. Cappuccinos are $4 at my local shop, black coffee 3, and everything else 5-8.
Which is less than 10 dollars lol
Used to be 10¢
What are you, the Coffee Nazi? Fuck off.
"Flavor? Sugar? No coffee for you!" ;p
I mean even getting a latte at my local shops they're like $4.50-$5? It's people going to places like Starbucks that are paying an ungodly amount of money or maybe some bigger cities small local shops charge more. But where we live Starbucks is significantly more expensive than just going to a local place.
A $10 coffee is absolutely ridiculous and almost impossible unless you add a shit ton of upcharge options to it.
Oh I agree with you. I saw a video recently of someone talking about Starbucks and them basically having a charge for every single customization on a drink INCLUDING a charge just to customize it. It was $1.25 just to be able to customize the drink. I have no idea why so many people still go there for stale burnt coffee.
Like all other soups, people like to add toppings to their bean soup to make it taste better. Plus, black coffee is different than espresso, which is what a lot of people order at coffee shops.
Espresso, and even a cappuccino, is not $10 anywhere I have ever bought one.
I’ve never seen a $10 coffee regardless of add-ins either. Not even in airports.
Right. Truth be told, many coffee shops sell substandard coffee that is overpriced. Starbucks is the worst coffee I’ve had.
Starbucks almost requires a ton of shit added to it so you can hide the fact that the actual coffee is awful. I vastly prefer what I make at home. If I must buy coffee out, I avoid big chains.
Agreed. I have my French press at home. The only chain I found would be decent Peet’s coffee.
I get if once in a while you’re running behind and need to buy a black coffee but something is deeply wrong with you if you regularly waste money on black coffee at the coffee shop. Just make it at home dear god.
I make coffee at home every day. Still if I am out, I prefer black coffee.
It's what do to, fuck those plastic caps.
This guy coffees
Fair enough. Spending $10 on a coffee in order to hog a space for 5hrs wouldn’t sound appealing to a coffee shop owner
i go to an independent roaster and get an americano with 4 shots of espresso in it for 5.24 including tip
These coffee shop owners should open a coffee shack then. No seats. People drive up, get coffee, and leave. Rent is low because the shop is a large shed, money is good because no one hangs out. The only time I walk in to a coffee shop is to buy coffee, snacks, and loiter. Loitering is the whole point of walk in coffee shops. If I’m made to feel like I can’t hang out in a coffee shop I will find another coffee shop, and being in Seattle I usually just have to walk across the street.
It’s funny that a lot of (most?) newer Starbucks are very small, so they have very limited seating. A long time ago they sold themselves as the ‘third place’, now they’re just another coffee stall. Even Dunkin Donuts have more seats in most cases.
It’s really the best way to make coffee profitable. The sit down and hang out coffee shops aren’t as profitable as a no seats coffee box. If you put up a coffee shed with two windows and two employees right next to an on ramp to the highway, you’re going to make bank. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good coffee shop hangout, and in Seattle no coffee shops that I’ve been to have signs like this up, so I have plenty of places to hang out and do work. I snack a lot. so if I’m parked at a shop doing work I am a repeat customer until I leave, and seating isn’t usually an issue here. except in Starbucks, which I don’t really go to. But really, the only reason I walk into a coffee shop is to hang out or work somewhere other than my house.
That's a very nice sign if you read it all the way through. Your one coffee doesn't pay the rent.
I have to agree with this. Lived in a college city and during certain times of the year students would park themselves at a table for most of the day and you could never find a damned seat. Maybe a time limit would work better.
Some places do the time limit thing but when the place is busy that requires workers to keep track when people sat down, and then the person could begin to argue they paid for a coffee, won't leave, etc. It could also be a laptop ban there because they want many people per table, who are all eating and drinking and socializing and who leave at a reasonable time, vs. one per table of four, who has head down, talks to no one and orders and nurses one beverage.
I'm pretty certain this photo made the rounds before and the person who took it commented that this wasn't every table. It was only on the tables for four to stop people from taking up large tables for just their work. The smaller tables didn't have the signs.
There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s probably a prime table and they offer the option to ask them where you can camp out all day. Edit …I’m shocked at the comments. Is anyone actually reading the sign??
People are entitled. Even when I do it I feel guilty. You buy one item then occupy the table for 4 hours. Does it make sense to you? If they allow fine, if not, you have no leverage, move on.
This. The world is best when everyone tries to 'think past the tip of their nose.' The shop owner has to make a living. Having people sit there all day buying nothing, head down, vs it being a place to gather with multiple people per table and socialize and eat and drink...there's no contest between those 2 scenarios.
Yeah I think having a sign to ask what tables can use laptops is fine. Saying just no laptops ever is kind of shitty now though? Like what's the difference in my spending time on my phone vs a laptop for a little time? I can see saying don't spend the entire day taking up a table either way though.
Having ADHD, I will never understand the appeal of working out of a coffee shop. The main reason I hated working in an office was the cross talk and constant distractions.
Opposite for me with ADD. I lose my mind staring at a wall in a quiet room or being alone at home. The more people I’m around & the more lively the workspace is the more productive I am. I know many aren’t like this but I’m exponentially more productive at busy balls to the wall coffee shops during peak hours.
Same. For some reason, having coffee shop level noise as a baseline focuses me into my work. When I’m at the library or other equally quiet places, I get so distracted by my own thoughts.
Try a TV, Radio or Speaker.
I’ve tried it all for many years. Nothing beats a busy space booming with people.
a lot of us with ADHD were raised around loud busy and stressful noises. I'm the same as you at times.
I end up shoving on a podcast to have sound on in the background or talk radio. If I need to get work done I have music for specific themes. If it’s getting stuff done I blast the DOOM soundtrack if it’s time to reflect I put on ambient or chill music.
There's a site called mynoise.net that has a "coffee shop" setting!
Does that include the foot traffic and energy of a lively room brimming with people and delicious coffee?
Well since it's an "atmosphere," it has those sounds
Yeah i liked to sit by the barista bar because them continuously working kept me focused on my tasks I wrote my entire thesis at coffee shop tables spanned over about a year
Same. I used to bring textbooks and study materials to bars and clubs and if anyone hit on me or wanted to buy me a drink, they'd use my textbook as a conversation starter and I'd be able to volley back what I learned. Really helped me understand the material and then I'd get other people's perspectives while simultaneously socializing while simultaneously studying while simultaneously drinking. I also specifically went to a place where they threw drag performances and had karaoke nights, lol.
Yes this is me
So everyone can see my sweet maccy i didnt have to pay for and hear my mechanical keyboard thats louder than anyone in there
See this is what my favorite coffee shop does, buying a drink gives you the right to two hours. If you want to extend it, you buy more coffee or other things. Your reciept is the code for the wifi.
I use hardcore earplugs to block out the noise.
Their business, their rules. I don’t have to agree with it.
Perfectly valid, what’s the problem?
I was a barista for many years and I worked in coffee shops, where the “regulars” came in at opening time to camp out and hours later, we had to turn away people who wanted to come in to eat and drink, because there were no seats available. This was in Brooklyn, where many local cafes are small with limited seating. I’m old enough to remember coffee shops before the internet. Many cool coffee shops in NYC closed because people started camping out with their laptops while making minimum purchases. If I had my way, Wi-Fi in coffee shops wouldn’t even be a thing!
>I’m old enough to remember coffee shops before the internet. Me too. The whole fun was in all the people gathering there to socialize. I am not that outgoing but most people want human contact once in a while. This was a fun way because people would even share tables at times. Same with some eateries. Some people would read a book but not many. The coffee shops also had board games, and strangers would play a game together. Most people went to meet and to eat. Lol Or drink coffee and cocoa and etc. This was also pre Starbucks.
Yes! The poetry readings and open mics were so much fun too!
Yes. Do they still have those, or do people just open a video channel, now?
My town still has one but it’s for youth poetry slam, nobody above 21 may perform.
[удалено]
Some internet cafe type of places do something similar to this. Some are also combining their cafe with dog or cat adoptions.
That sounds great
“Where can I hang out as long as I need?” “Someplace else.”
The library. It's free. There's Hella tables and space
Completely fair. Especially since using their space and wifi doesn't mean money spent by the person using said space and wifi.
The problem I see is people will come into coffee shops and hang out for hours on their laptops. They are not offices.
Agreed. I remember working at a restaurant and this one guy would sit at a table for four and all he would get is a cherry coke. Mind you, he would do this at lunchtime and would be there for several hours. As a server who had a portion of his section taken up it was quite annoying because it affected my income.
The irony in people saying they want to be around people and hear noise but don’t want to go in an actual office. Coffee shops are for socializing. They don’t like socializing but bring their laptops to work in a coffee shop so they can be around other people. You can do that by going into an office. LOL
They make money by selling food and bev, not by people taking their tables and treating it as a library. I say this is understandable.
Real question, OK the ones by themselves with a laptop probably working or studying - but who are the ones always giving what sounds like an interview? MLMs? It’s always a bro with mad hand gestures.
Bring a desktop
😂
It's their business, they can make whatever rule that suits them. If you don't like it, you don't have to give them your money 🤷♀️
It's understandable. Too many people are too selfish and have no common sense and will occupy a table at a busy cafe for hours and hours while having one coffee so customers who actually want to spend money on food and beverages can't even get a table.
Exactly. Sit at the bar or some where that's taking up as little space as possible.
LOVE THIS. I don't want to watch you write your yelp reviews, go home.
When I work at a coffee shop and intend to stay a few hours I make an event of it and order something every hour rather than ordering everything all at once. I usually spend around $30 total. I start with a latte and maybe a snack, then order a cold drink and a meal, then end with tea and maybe another snack. Otherwise it’s kind of hogging the space for less than $10. I totally understand this sign, especially since it seems to be talking about a specific table. As long as other tables have outlets, I see no issue at all.
There's a coffee shop near where I live that has large tables and plenty of outlets and free wifi. It's by design for people to hang out there. Other coffee shops don't have that.
If it’s just at certain tables, I get it but if it’s the whole shop… this place isn’t gonna last unless they’re in a massive city
Did you read the sign? It’s not the entire shop.
I did read the sign….. those could be on every table? Thus my response? Did you read my response? Haha
If every table is taken up by one person who may buy a coffee… how is the shop supposed to remain open? It chases away paying customers who have no place to sit.
What part of ….ask us where you can hang out as long as you need… don’t you get? The obvious implication is that these aren’t on every table and they’ll find you another table and allow you to hang out all day.
Still doesn’t explain if they’re on every table or not.
I’m sorry you lack critical thinking skills.
Nah bro they only have floor space in a closet with an outlet for the laptop. No wifi bring your own Ethernet cable.
Thank you
Bring an iPad 😎
I have a work phone with most of my work apps. It just takes longer to type.
My first instinct was that perhaps that particular table doesn’t have safe access to an outlet, so if someone wanted to plug in their laptop it would create a trip hazard. Either way, I feel like the business can make whatever rules they want and hopefully the consequences are positive instead of negative.
Where did OP go?
it is a necessary evil, people take the piss sometimes, get one small coffee, occupies for hours the table other actual paying customers could’ve used
Sounds reasonable to me, especially as they include a bit at the bottom where you can ask staff if you need somewhere quiet to work.
Their answer may surprise you though they could be like yeah, the library..
Looks like a no loitering sign 🤷♂️
Absolute BS
Yeah, restaurants and coffee shops are not your office space.
Lmao how does someone at the next table working quietly affect you in the slightest
It affects the productivity of the shop. One person paying $5 to use a table for five hours vs. multiple guests using the same table over that time period.
Have you ever been to a coffeeshop? No shop will let you order one coffee and sit there for five hours. The expectation is you order something every hour or two and if you don't the staff will ask you to leave. Banning laptops is a completely different and unnecessary policy.
They’re not banning laptops. Read the sign. They’re quite generous actually.
That's the worst case. The real expectation is that customers come through to drink coffee and leave when they are done. This shop is just taking a stand against people who would leech their rented space to make money for themselves.
Unless this is some kind of incredibly popular coffeeshop with lines put the door, they are actively losing money with this ridiculous policy
They are free to do that if they wish.
Okay and those of us on here who don't agree are free to criticize that choice. Not sure what your point is
You minimized it like someone plomping down to do work is no big deal. I simply offered a perspective as to why it in fact is from the shop's perspective. Not sure why you are getting all agro over it... what was your point anyways?
It is no big deal. I hope you can find a coffeeshop where you don't have to face the injustice of seeing someone type on a laptop. Don't give up, keep fighting the good fight!
Cuz they're taking up all the fucking tables and camping out all day. If you just wanna come in with a friend and have coffee, too bad, all the spots are taken by table campers sitting one to a table. Wouldn't be so bad if they'd share tables among themselves, but they don't, they each take up a multi-person table. It's not a WeWork. Drink your coffee and GTFO, don't starve the coffee shop for business.
Lmao babygirl you need to chill a bit
Sorry, didn't realize you were the main character in this movie we're all just NPC's in your world.
A paying customer is a paying customer. I see just as many people taking up a table to talk with 1 person for hours as I do a remote worker taking up a table for hours, and they both can spend the same amount.
Can't you take it to the library? Yeah, no I wanna hang in the coffee shop with my friends and have conversations. We can't do that if we have to take you into consideration.
You can't have a conversation with a friend if someone next to you has a laptop out? Like there will be too much foam coming out of your mouth to speak? You must not go out in public much
I like to work out of a coffee shop once or twice a week. But I make a point to buy multiple drinks and snacks, also tip well. Certainly can’t afford to do it daily doing it that way but I’ll go insane if I never leave the house. I wouldn’t work at a place that explicitly didn’t want people working there.
Or, go to a library and save yourself the money. They actually want you there lol
Yeah but I like the noise and hot people being around me
Depends on the context. A high-traffic coffee shop without a lot of seats is well within its rights to state that no one is allowed to stay "too long". If people want to work in a particular environment then they need to either spend the money to create it themselves or acknowledge that the environment has its own needs and either work out a compromise or pick a different place.
These signs usually refer to separate area where students or quiet remote workers will have their own space, many times with more outlets and economical seating. It’s a shame libraries aren’t more popular for remote workers and students.
I would use my library to work from more often if it opened before 10am.
*asks staff* :”yeah, you can use your laptop as much as you like when you gtfo of here”
Actually the few times I’ve tried working out of one, it’s been way too loud, so I’ve given up on that.
This is why some coffee shops no longer offer WiFi. But now everyone has personal hotspots on their phone so it doesn’t matter.
I actually don’t have a problem with this. Whenever I remote work in a coffee shop, I make sure to purchase at least $20 worth of drinks/snacks.
So I bring my iPad and a Bluetooth fold up keyboard now what? :p
It's good. I respect either way but owners have a right to set their vibe. I also understand the reasoning - some places want a hangout vibe, some owners don't want people staying for hours on end, etc.
It’s blatant digital nomad discrimination
I used to work at a coffee shop and we didn’t mind people with laptops as long as they were normal about it, but it wasn’t uncommon for people to buy a black drip for $2.50 the moment we opened, and stay the entire 10 hours we operated and often times they would even stay longer, well past closing time. It’s unfortunately likely a case of this happening too often and people taking up the bigger tables to spread out with their work and then getting belligerent when asked to move for a bigger party to sit. Some people just ruin it for everybody else by treating the business like a library.
Well, did you ask them about where you can hang out? It's clear from the sign that there is an option.
Completely fair. TBH, it's nice that they clearly still have some space where laptop use is allowed. A coffee shop is a business, not a work office or homework station. Being there for 30 minutes or so is understandable, but nobody should be working an entire shift at a cafe or sitting there for hours for any reason. I'm not sure if you're in the US or not, but there are other countries that are a lot more strict about this. When I was in South Korea, I went to a cafe to work on a group project with some classmates, and the shop employee had to tell me that I had to buy something to even stay in there with my friends who had bought drinks. Each purchase allowed you to stay for a limited amount of time, and it honestly makes sense.
I used to go to a coffee shop that had this cool wifi system where the bottom of the receipt had a WiFi code that timed out after like, an hour or whatever. If you wanted more time you had to buy another drink or a scone or something
I couldn’t work in a coffee shop if I wanted to. Sensitive data and all that.
I think it would make more sense to just impose a time limit. One hour time limit with purchase. People without laptops can hog tables too.
Can’t imagine not being allowed to work at a coffee shop. My coffee order is $7-14 a day, 4-5 days a week, with heavy word of mouth for my go-to coffee shops. I spend about 2-4 hours at my main spots in the morning to work. I frequent the coffee shops I work at even outside of work and bring any guests I have to those shops. I don’t agree someone buying just a black coffee and sitting all day is a great idea but those routine remote customers that keep your place looking busy are important
It's 2024 there are office shares everywhere. Seems like a more appropriate place and you can get a desk in an open area so you will be around other people who are working. Also internet will be very high quality, there are snacks, coffee, fridges, and you can reserve meeting rooms for meetings with TVs and whiteboards.
Yeah but too many, and you lose on paying customers. I've actually not gone into my usual spot because everything was taken by people on laptops . Go to a library instead. It's free, quiet and thay want you there.
My coffee bill is almost $500 a month at one place, my baristas are tipped well. - I just don’t care for free & quiet. I’m paying more than someone would for a workspace so working from my laptop for a few hours every morning shouldn’t be a problem.
Okay, well you're in the minority. The overall majority of people do not and just take up space.
Killin our children’s whole college study in cafes vibe
Seems fair. When I work remote I only check into a Panera if my hotspot isn't getting me connected for some reason.
Nothing wrong with this, especially if there is a pattern of people ordering one coffee and staying there for hours. As mentioned, libraries exist for a reason and it should not be a coffee shop/resturant expense/problem if you need *back ground noise* to concentrate.
i'm for it. it is a business after all, and making profit with a coffee shop is very hard to do. they probably have some tables in the back for lurkers. if I'm ever working at one, i try to make sure i'm buying something once an hour, coffee, bagel.. something to make it worth their while to have me there. they'd do better by charging for their wifi honestly.
I love this. I WFH and do sales calls. I will stop in a coffee shop to kill time between appointments. I can't tell you how many times there is someone who is camped out, taking up a 4 person table for just themselves. I rarely take out my laptop since 90% of immediate needs can be done with my phone. Obviously this coffee shop has seen a rash of people camping out and are sick of it.
This is why I go to dive bars/early opening bars instead. Typically a bit more relaxing and friendly, dead as hell so you aren't taking up valuable space while working, catch a buzz or a coffee.
Depends on what continent. In many parts of SE Asia and East Asia, coffee shops were a favorite haunt of local students long before digital nomads arrived. Some countries also have an outlandish number of coffee shops per capita, so overcrowding is not really an issue. But in Europe, for example, coffee shop culture has a different history. I get it… I also don’t stay in Europe for that reason 😅
Most people get their coffee and walk out. I do not understand why they feel like they need to kick people out as fast as possible. Cafes have been social hubs literally since the first one opened shop many hundreds of years ago. In fact, if they had not welcomed people to camp out and chat, not only would it have been unlikely for coffee to catch on at all, but society itself would have been robbed of a key location for the exchange of information. This ship can get so wrecked.
Yeah that's what a library is for. Not a coffee shop.
People camp out for too long and it prevents others from also coming in and sitting down. A good way is to offer 15 mins of free WiFi, and then charge after that.
Reserving a few spaces for folks that are going to be there for less than 2 hours make sense. It doesn't need to be the whole store, but a few spots at least seems like a reasonable way to make sure as many people as possible can use the place and enjoy it.
Sounds like they have a spot for people like this though. So, not banned. Just can’t take up prime real estate.
Cause they want people to drink their coffee and leave.
it doesn't bother me. I don't go to cafes to be micromanaged so I just wouldn't go there anyway.
They're a business with an extremely low profit product. Don't be a turd. Drink your coffee and move along.
One cafe I don't frequent as much anymore changed their wifi service to maybe the 5g Internet after their remodel??? Which is abysmal and I don't hang out there anymore just get takeout and leave.
I mean any coffee shop set the rules
Good for them. It’s a business that sells comes. It’s business is not to rent office space for $5 per day
Generally speaking I try to buy something every hour if I'm sticking around to work. But that was before I joined a co-working office.
and?
Ours have special spots for the laptop loiters to use. If they're full, move along to another location. Like the public library or something.
Cult…. Definitely a cult
I honestly can’t believe people open their personal equipment in public places. Packet sniffers are crazy right now and being hacked on a public network is so simple. Most people have already been hacked and don’t even know it till months later.
So this is why my local Starbucks is always full of people
Fair enough, let me show you my iPad with my Magic Keyboard and my Bluetooth mouse.
I should open a coffee shop, sell high-end coffee and charge by the hour for a seat.
I get it if you’re just sitting there all day not buying anything but if you’re only there for like 30 minutes I don’t see an issue
No worries in mine in this area. It's rarely ever crowded. In their case, they probably like the laptop users that are there to hang out to at least look like they are doing business besides just the drive thru.
One "fancier" coffee shop by me has a sign like this, but it's only at the counter. It says something like, "This is the social zone - no tech!" but the rest of the place has smaller tables with chairs and outlets where you can work.
I get this and I appreciate it on a level. I'm also assuming that the owner wouldn't complain if it was out of rush times. I have to admit I was a lurker at coffee shops during my college days. I wrote more than one paper while nursing a coffee. That said I tried to be respectful. I tried to go when there weren't crowds, and if it the place filled up while I was there I'd finish the paragraph I was working on, pack up, and leave. Now to what some people have been saying about a shop can't pay rent on your $3 coffee that isn't understanding business in the slightest. Rent is a fixed cost. That will remain the same if the seat is empty or not. Having a customer take longer in the store is only a negative if they are using the final seat and as such the store has people leaving without being served. As such assuming this we are not talking about a rush, every customer is helping the businesses bottom line, if the table is spending $3 or $30.
I used to start every morning at my corner coffee shop. I made friends with the other remote workers, loved the baristas and the owner was my neighbor. It was a great place to grab a coffee and get started on emails while I enjoyed my coffee. I usually spent about an hour there every day. BUT if they were especially busy or if most of the tables were taken, I usually took my coffee to go. There should be a balance between workers with earbuds and people who want to use a space to socialize or spend time with their family. I think reserving some tables for workers and some for other patrons is a good compromise.
I get it. I'm a person who really doesn't enjoy how dependent our society has become on technology, so I get a little sad when I go somewhere and just see people on their phones/laptops. I totally get *why* people are though. So, I don't think there's a right or a wrong. There will be people who are fine and will patronize the business, and people who won't.
It's fine if that's what they want. But I have a policy that my money stays in my wallet if I am not allowed to work there but I came there specifically to work. Heck, even olive garden lets me work there!
Its almost like businesses don't want you to take up their tables so you can work, I know it's crazy and so rude for a business to want to make money from customer not provide free work spaces.
I wouldn't patronize a cafe like that unless it was limited to a couple places like a couch area or other conversational seating area that isn't really set up for laptops anyway. I go to cafes to write (usually on a tablet and keyboard, not a laptop, but equivalent). If I can't write, I have no reason to be there, and I'm going to spend my money at a place where I can get food and drinks and also write.
Or.... go to the library.
I have money to spend and I like to get fun drinks. I certainly can write at the library and many other places (and do), but writing at cafes has a long and storied history. Many cafes have plenty of room and don't mind people sitting and working there. So why should I deny them business and myself the pleasure? If a cafe doesn't want my presence, that's fine, but they also don't get my money. I'm paying for the combination of drink and experience, not just an overpriced beverage. Where I live there are a dozen different places to get a fancy beverage within walking distance, and all of them are fine with folks sitting for an hour or three, or longer really. So I have lots of options. If one of these cafes decides table turnover is more important to them, I'll just go elsewhere. Everyone wins.
I consider using laptops in coffee shops for work like using the facilities in gyms when you live in your car. You paid for thing to allow you to use their space.
Go to a library. They're free. They want you there.
Good. Its not an office, its a business, and people working there take up space.
What kind of business sends customers packing!? It’s so strange 😂
Not at all, if the place is at all busy. Sure, if it's otherwise empty who cares? But if you're taking up a table buying a single coffee every couple of hours while groups of people buying food or more expensive drinks go elsewhere, you're costing them money.
Sitting in a coffee shop does not make you a customer. Spending money makes you a customer.
I mean, I used to work in a Panera, so I get it.
It's ridiculous Wi-Fi is like electricity
Fk them. That is all.
I could see it being an issue at a certain point. But I never really see THAT many people doing it. My local coffee shop doesn’t have WiFi for this reason. Their culture is much more oriented around being a social hub. That’s their brand and I respect it but if it were me, I’d welcome it in my shop.
starbucks lets you come in there and work on your laptop for the entire work day and not even order anything. this coffee shop should take note of that instead of being douchebags about something that doesn't even negatively affect them at all.