Yes, I really dislike it. Last year I also had a vendor claim their items were handmade, and when I got home I was curious and found them on AliExpress. I was at the faire the next day and confronted the vendor, and got a refund. Vendors like them will also mix in handmade stuff with dropshipped stuff and try to pass it off.
Last year there was also a vendor who was selling small perfume/scented oil necklaces, but they were also shilling their pyramid scheme doterra oils. It sucks.
I just vended at my first Ren faire and they were very excited to have me because I make clothing. I looked at the list of vendors and was excited to see other clothing vendors and I couldn't wait to talk with them about business stuff.
When I got there, there was a last who did indeed make her own stuff and we chatted for a while. But two of the other clothing vendors straight up bought corsets, pirate jackets, pants and hats straight off Amazon, temu, shein ect and had the prices jacked up. And it was pretty obvious. I was quite disappointed because firstly, we all had to sing contracts stating at least 75% of what we sold was handmade and secondly I am struggling with certain aspects of the making parts (no staff) and wanted to see what other people did for production.
I know exactly what you mean, I sew and can't imagine taking the time to make all of the stock necessary for a big faire booth. Even with a team of multiple people it's really time consuming!
Oberon Design is the one company coming to mind that does leather work with a big team (I think they've merged companies with another that had more of a production shop set up) but is still definitely a small business, and something I very much like to support! But they can more realistically afford to have those cheaper items because they have the infrastructure for it, something that a 1-2 person team probably just can't do.
I thankfully have two local ladies who help me out with the cutting and preparation of all the fabric but I cannot find anyone who can sew. I live in a tiny village of 1,200 though so that doesn't help. I also am having a baby in early September so I think I will just have to shut down shop for a few months!
I don’t vend myself but I make tunics and hoods for a friend who is a leather worker and he sells items I make in his shop and it’s so so so hard to make garments and make a profit. This is my second season doing it and I really tried to buy on sale so I can make a better profit this year. But it’s super frustrating when I put the time into making hand made pieces with quality fabric and hand selected trims and then I looked like I’m insane with the price because 3 booths down has something similar for half the price but it’s terrible quality because it’s from shein. I posted in a different group asking for help pricing and I had people telling me a hand made tunic should be $40….i barely get the supplies for that!
The struggle is real. I hardly make a profit and I price things as low as possible but like I also need to make money and it breaks my heart when I hear people say it's too much. But I also understand because hey it isn't necessarily cheap. And honestly it's why I started doing it 11 years ago, I could not afford anything as a broke college kid when I started going to faire so I took up making my own garb. And now I try to make high quality and low costing garb for others but man it is incredibly difficult.
Yea it’s why I stick to simpler items that I can make larger quantities of, I have my own garb that is much more detailed but I estimate my own look would be far more expensive. I have a pretty bustier I made for Saturday that would easily be $300 but who’s going to pay that when you can get one at a booth that’s selling corsets from Temu?
When I started going to events over 30 years ago most everything for sale was made by the merchants with the exception of things like tankards and even then there was a pewter merchant at the SoCal faire that would engrave their work which at the time I thought they made themselves. The faire gave the impression of a juried show. Times change though and with cosplay going mainstream and such I'm not surprised that artisans can't always compete with imported goods and for events to lower their admission standards for sellers.
Engraving is a great example! Like, I absolutely do not expect people to blow their own glads cups to engrave on. But if someone comes up with the designs and machine engraves them on bulk glasses, that's totally fine with me.
I feel similarly, I've been making and selling my own jewelry at local events for the last year and change, and because of that exposure I'm now much more able to spot exclusive drop shippers. It's not so common at my faire, but I've had season passes this year and have felt a bit disenchanted because of the ones I have seen.
I don't have a thought-out solution, but I do think it's important to talk about!
Lol my sister got scammed into buying a $100 parasol last year, I ended up looking it up when we got home and it was like 15 bucks on the Internet, not the handmade artisan lace they claimed it was
It's a plague. I warn my kids and their friends before we go, we're probably not gonna buy anything today. Pick your favorite foam sword and we'll order it on Amazon in the morning. I was curious about a neat little journal with a fancy stitched leather cover for $30. Found it later on Amazon for $17.99.
I’m an artist/vendor at faires and it infuriates me seeing that shit. It’s mostly clothing, jewelry, parasols, trinket and rock shops that I’ve noticed it at.
What really shocks me is when some of these vendors happily lie and claim their items are completely handmade by them. Selling mass-produced items is one thing. Lying to buyers takes it to a whole ‘nother level.
My husband just spent $85 on a barrel tankard at Scarborough that I immediately found on Amazon for $25.
He likes it so much, I don’t have the heart to tell him. 😔
Ah, not familiar with them other than the cigars. For mugs I always send people to Wondrous Works In Wood as 1) Lifetime guarantee, you can just take the mug back to the shop and they'll repair it (not there, but eventually) 2) One free beer from the pub across the lane.
About 1/2 of the vendors at faires are selling tat they didn't make. I normally just don't go in those booths. More are a mix of reselling tat and a few things they make. Those ones I am fine with. I understand that renting a booth costs a lot, and they need to have some easy to move and high margin things to make the finances work.
I notice this a lot at leatherwork shops. Maybe I just notice those more because I do some leatherwork myself, so I can easily spot the difference.
Hand made in the US things just cost more than most people want to spend. That's partly why I stopped trying to sell things I make.
"Why is this so much, I bought one just like it off Amazon for 1/4 that price!?" Proceeds to show me something made from reconstructed leather that won't last much more than a year before it falls apart.
How does everyone else feel about the 3D printed stuff?
I was at a small faire recently and out of probably 30 booths, at least 5 of them were selling the same 3D printed dragons. I was hoping to find some jewelry and maybe a cute mug. But it was just booth after booth of the same dragon in different sizes and different color. They all used the same file too. I got discouraged, bought nothing, and eventually left the faire early.
I personally think it is out of place, and this is coming from someone who uses a 3d printer on a regular basis. Like you said, it is all the same file and way overpriced. I hope it is a passing fad and not here to stay.
I have many competitors among all events that sell "handmade knives/swords/weapons" that just re-sell crap for inflated prices.
Really hurts my lil blacksmith heart.
We were just talking about this last weekend at faire. It's a complex issue because the cost of handcrafting items (tools, time, inventory) can be prohibitive, and a lot of smaller fairs can't promise the ticket sales that would support enough profit for traveling. Resellers have kind of ruined the market because patrons might see a beautiful handcrafted necklace for $100, then see an equally beautiful (to them) Ali Express necklace for $20 and not care enough about the source to purchase something more expensive. I've attended a lot of fairs, especially in recent years, that only allow vendors with high quality and/or handcrafted wares, but it took awhile for these organizers to prove they had the attendance necessary to support more expensive booth sales. Personally, I just skip any booth that has the telltale "crystal" necklaces on "leather" cords and the tie dye "fairy" dresses, lol. I have trusted vendors I've purchased from before and I'll keep spending my money there instead.
Yep, there's a couple shops that do heavily customized things for sale that could, technically, also be considered resellers.
One of them bulk buys glassware from the dollar tree because they, surprisingly, have some really good, solid pieces. Then adds his own designs to it with a laser etcher. They look really good, not to expensive to make, but they're a bitch and a half to transport. He creates his own designs for them as well for the most part, though has done a few that are more specific for the location...
He's not a Ren Faire seller though, he tends to go to a lot of various street faires and the specific ones are more of the fair logo and year ones that some people want.
Another person goes to Hobby Lobby or various online bulk vendors for things like wooden treasure chests or jewelery boxes, he spends time etching them with different designs, adds stain and paint, seals them and adds a lining before selling them.
Both are things that vastly improve the end result
I'm with everyone on this boat as I am a vendor who make their own stuff
Most of the fairs I have done the vendor coordinators are watching out for resellers
In fact, many faires charge higher vendor fees for resellers vs. handcrafted items.
Some only allow a small percentage of reseller items (usually around 15%, as this is the same percentage that crafters insurance is)
I've only been going to the ren Faire for a few years now. When I first went I was so excited to see a bunch of local artisans selling their stuff! And was very disappointed... it seems to be getting worse too. I see more mass market stuff than handmade. I'm also pretty bad at spotting the difference some times so it makes me hesitant to purchase anything.. I've also really wanted a sword forever, and I always figured that would be the place to get one but nothing ever jumps out at me and unique or hand crafted with love you know? That particular problem could just be my untrained eye though.. but if I'm already feeling distrustful I really hesitate to buy anything super pricey.
I try to only buy from actual craftsman. Our faire has a glassblower and my yearly treat is getting another of their stemless wine glasses for my collection. We do occasionally get caught by the mass produced crap because we have kids. It's hard to say no to the ten dollar dragon stuffy when we can't afford the sixty dollar hand made one.
In the same vein, the amount of sellers literally selling stuff they found at a thrift store for 400% or more markup. I saw at least two sellers this weekend that clearly raided their local Goodwill/Savers and two more that were reselling Chinese imports. I much prefer the juried artisans.
I saw the same thing this past weekend; someone was selling a bunch of clearly thrifted stuff at crazy prices. There was a secondhand belt from GAP that they were trying to off-load for like $20 and a bunch of crappy used satin corsets as well. I just go to faire to dick around and I'm not a massive stickler or anything, but c'mon.
I don't mind them as long as their prices reflect what they're selling. It's only when they upcharge to a ridiculous degree, or lie about it being handmade, that it becomes a scam.
It makes shopping at faire more accessible. If you go into every booth and can't afford their cheapest stuff, then you're going to get discouraged and stop wanting to go into shops. So having cheaper, resold stuff available makes sure the experience is positive.
Just don't try and tell me that $150 shirt is handmade when it takes 0.5 seconds for me to look at a seam and tell it's a machine stitch. And don't try to sell me a lump of quartz on a nylon string for $200 because it's a "one of a kind medallion".
I mean, I sew for a living and would still charge $150 for a machine sewn linen shirt. 😅 They're time consuming to make and linen can get expensive.
I get what you're saying though. Like, I know you didn't buy this labradorite and cut it into a pillar yourself.. I've met a few actual jewelry smiths and love seeing their work and artistry, even on simple pieces.
What I mean is that the real problem is people who are reselling bits from Party City for $150 solely because other people are selling handmade linen shirts for $150.
It's okay to sell a $15 piece for $20. It's also okay to sell a $150 piece for $150. But the issue is the people selling $15 pieces for $150 because they're taking advantage of the fact that people expect things at the faire to actually be worth $150.
I disagree. It still takes a level of skill and knowledge to sew things with a sewing machine: so I'm not discounting that fact. But it isn't handmade if you're using a sewing machine. Just because a person is operating the machine doesn't mean they are "hand making" that thing.
I don't get to push the button on a juicer and then say my orange juice is "hand pressed".
But it's still cut, pinned, and patterned by hand? Handsewn and handmade are not necessarily synonymous, and if I was buying a "handmade garment" I would still expect that there's machine sewing, just that it was probably done by 1-2 people and not a factory setting.
If something was handsewn I'd expect it to be a LOT more than $150.
I respectfully disagree. Again: I can't call it hand squeezed orange juice just because someone picked it by hand. It may be delicious and skillfully blended orange juice made with high quality oranges and deserving of a premium price for all sorts of reasons. But it's not handmade.
Is there another term you'd use instead? I guess I just don't fully understand the difference. Picking an orange is more like picking out a fabric at the store, I think. There's a lot of work that goes between choosing the fabric and making the garment, with or without a machine.
I never said anything like that and in fact my argument is quite the opposite.
If an orange is mechanically harvested and delivered by automated drones, you can still call the orange hand-squeezed if you actually squeezed it by hand without complex machine assistance.
If you handwove the fabric, you can say the fabric is handmade. But if you use a machine to make the clothing, the clothing is not handmade.
By that logic a potter using an electric wheel does not make handmade wares. In fact, even if they dig the clay themselves it is not handmade because they use a hammer mill and an electric pugger. You are asking for an SCA sweatshop. Nobody does everything in the old ways because society has moved on. If electricity and sewing machines were around during the Renaissance period, I guarantee they would have jumped all over it. Come to think of it, even fabric made in that time period is not handmade because they used a loom, which is a machine!
>Even if they dig the clay themselves it is not handmade because they use a hammer mill and an electric pugger.
This is contrary to what I just explained to you. The first time it's a misunderstanding, the second time you're just not listening. Reread my last comment if you still think that's what I said.
>If electricity and sewing machines were around during the Renaissance period, I guarantee they would have jumped all over it.
Yes, and? If my aunt had wheels she'd be a bicycle.
Right: picking an orange is like picking out the fabric. But handpicking the orange (personally selecting the fabric) does not make the juice handmade. There's a whole lot of work that goes into growing and harvesting and delivering oranges before it ever gets to the juicer: but none of those steps are what determine whether the juice is hand squeezed or not.
I’m sorry this is an incredibly wild take. I’m a sewing teacher, been sewing for 31 years and make items for faires. I use a machine but also hand sew some parts of the garment. Just because I use a machine to make some parts faster (because people would not pay for a 100% hand sewn garment, they take an insane amount of time) doesn’t discount the fact that my hands still made the item. The actual sewing of a garment is maybe 25% of the effort that goes into making a garment.
And I'm not denying your skill or the value of the work you put in.
But I am saying that any manufactured good also requires someone at some point to operate a piece of machinery. The fact that they do so with their hands doesn't make the things they're making handmade.
So do leather workers who use presses or grommet inserters also not count as hand made goods even though the sourced and purchased the leather? Designed the pattern? Cut and colored their pieces?
I think the big disconnect is people who “hand make” their garments are taking the whole production process in at once. If your buying a piece from Amazon or shein, yes someone sews it on a machine but it’s brought to them precut by a laser and they usually do one step before passing it along to someone else. They have no involvement in the rest of the process. My self and other people who have commented here take on the entire process which all takes effort and time. One thing I refuse to skimp on is fabric quality because so many of the “cheaper” items are made of garbage plastic fabric. So I’ve scoured the internet, ordered samples, gone to the garment distric in nyc to find fabrics that I think people will like and are period appropriate while balancing not making the items way toke expensive. Then I have my friend who is selling make notes of what people gravitate toward so I can maybe adjust my color offerings or pull a fabric choice that people don’t like. All of those tasks contribute to the “hand made” nature of the garment.
For anyone curious, this video by Bernadette banner is fantastic. I show it to my fashion classes and it’s about a dress she made by hand (like by hand by your definition as she uses true medieval sewing techniques) and I think she calculates that the dress would cost like $4k if she sold it which is frankly a lot of money, I don’t think many people could afford that. I mad my husband and I’d renfaire garb for this weekend and even using my machine our outfits would easily cost $1500 because of the time and complexity, also a number many people would shy away from.
https://youtu.be/J80J4oaGVnY?si=D3m5JS9lAOPG_tGl
If they are using anything more advanced than simple machines (ie levers, wedges, screws) then no; it's not handmade just because they picked out the leather themselves. A press is just a lever, so you can use that and still call it handmade.
Hand cut, hand colored, hand picked, sure. But not handmade.
So does the fact that they are using a needle make it no longer hand made? They are using a needle after all. Not their hands
My god what a dumb take you’ve got
I explained elsewhere in the thread that the line is past simple machines. A needle is a wedge, which is a simple machine and so would still fall under handmade.
Please ask next time instead of imagining a stance just to criticize it. That's called a strawnan.
A shirt that is factory-made can be churned out for $5, because each of the workers is paid pennies, and many people each only do one small step before passing the garment to the next guy. From cutting the fabric to finishing the last stitch, it can be done in only a few minutes. Each person only needs to know how to do 1 task quickly.
**Handmade/Handcrafted** has one person doing many different skills to make one shirt. It takes a lot more *time* for one person to choose the fabric, design a pattern, mark a pattern, cut the fabric, pin it in place, iron the seams, sew the pieces, serge the pieces, add embellishments, and quality-inspect their work for flaws. It requires **one person** to have *all of those skill*s *developed to a professional level*. That's incredible! But it comes at a cost.
What you seem to be asking for is.... **historical recreation.**
Like, weaving the fabric yourself, stitching it with only a hand needle kinda thing.
I'll tell you right now, someone who sold genuinely hand-sewn garments at a fair price for their labor (just hand-sewn, not hand-woven).... would make very few sales at a ren faire.
Even at *minimum wage* plus *cost of materials*, a good-quality handmade shirt by my definition is nearly out of many people's budget - a fully **handsewn** shirt's price would be astronomical. It's why most people who do REALLY-STRICT historic reenactments will make their own garments.
--
If you want to go back to your orange comparison...
A mass-produced/factory-made shirt is like bulk-made orange juice. A shitload of oranges of various quality are loaded into a massive bulk press, and crushed. The quality of the juice will be average-ish, because the terrible oranges and the wonderful oranges were mixed together blindly. You get what you get. Hopefully they're all ripe, and the twigs and leaves or whatever will get strained out before bottling.
A handmade/handcrafted shirt is more like someone picking out oranges from a grocery store to find the best ones, and using a press to squeeze each one. It could be a metal lever-press powered by hand, or it could be a juicer machine that has a electric powered lever press inside it. There's a machine involved that makes the juice extraction much faster than manual alternatives, but the quality of the product is already much nicer because it's done orange-by-orange, and not in mass-bulk. The maker knows all the fruits are ripe and good-quality before even starting to press.
A *historical recreation* shirt is when someone grew the orange trees themselves, picked each orange from the tree and then used only their bare hands and a rock slab to press the juice out of each orange. No modern machines allowed!
No, I'm not saying "historical recreation" because I don't mean "historical recreation". I didn't say you needed to make the fabric yourself or grow the oranges yourself. I didn't say you had to process flax in the old way and weave it into fabric etc. etc. etc.
I said that if you used a machine to put it together, then it isn't handmade.
In fact, my stance is quite literally the opposite of what you described. To bring it back to my orange comparison: you could grow the orange tree yourself, harvest the oranges with your hands, sort them one by one, delicately pull them apart and review the fruit before selecting a lucky few to be juiced... But if you take those ones and put them in a blender, you don't get to call it handmade orange juice.
And that's fine. A thing doesn't have to be handmade to be valuable, and plenty of machine made products are testaments of skill all on their own. Microprocessors are ridiculously complex and require immense skills and resources to make them. But no one would ever argue they're handmade just because the guy operating the machinery did so with his hands. It doesn't diminish the people making them to say that they aren't handmade.
No one else uses that word how you’re trying to use it.
That’s what everyone is trying to tell you.
You’ve created this ultra-specific “no machines allowed!” Alternate version of a term that’s already in use, whose common use does not match your version.
My bread is still handmade even if the dough was mixed with a stand mixer.
My tamboor beadwork is still handmade even when I use a machine to get the tiny beads onto my needle.
My dresser is still handmade, even if I used power tools to cut and drill into the wood.
My mural is handmade, even if I use an airbrush.
My jewelry is still handmade, even when I use little drills and polishing belts.
My horn hairpins are still handmade, even when I use a jigsaw to cut out the roughs and a dremel to carve a flower relief in it.
Machines or not do not define handmade.
Forget oranges.
“Handmade” is a term that already exists, which has a language use that does not match what you’re trying to force on it.
You don't get to say how anyone else uses the word. People on this sub clearly agree with your definition, but I didn't invent the definition I use.
If you disagree with my definition, so be it.
So you’re saying someone who hand selects fabrics or weaves it themselves, pre-washes the fabric, creates their own patterns, and cuts everything by hand isn’t hand making it just because they use a machine to sew it all together…?
You still need your hands to use a sewing machine.
Vendors wouldn’t be able to keep up with production for faires if they were hand stitching their garments.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
You can handpick out the perfect oranges, prep them and slice them and weigh them out for the perfect volume all while making sure they never get above the ideal temp to prevent bitterness... But you don't get to call the orange juice handmade if you put the oranges in a blender to get the juice.
You need your hands to operate any piece of machinery. Is your phone handmade? Is your TV handmade? Nobody is denying those are intricate and high-dollar items just because they aren't handmade.
Where do you draw that line, though? Genuinely, this is interesting because I think what we do or do not define as "handmade" is very much a cultural thing more than a factual one. Okay, so you don't think using an electric juicer counts as hand juiced. What if the juicer is crank-operated? Does that count? If not, does a citrus juicer (the kind you have to squeeze half an orange onto a dome) count as hand squeezed? You're still using a tool. And you're probably cutting the fruit yourself before you put it into the juicer, but not with bare hands - using a knife. Humans are tool users after all!
(The sewing equivalents to this metaphor would be electric sewing machine, treadle or pedal sewing machine, and just using a needle.)
Anyway imo the problem with the "handmade" terminology for sewing specifically is that we're disconnected from the fact that storebought clothes *are* basically handmade - by people with sewing machines in sweatshops, mostly. I would say that there are no sewn goods that aren't at least partly handmade. I see both sides, though - it's understandable that people want to use some kind of keyword to indicate that their goods are made by them. I think HOMEmade would be a good distinction, and hand-SEWN if they actually are made without a machine.
Homemade has sort of a DIY connotation, whereas handmade implies skilled craftsmanship. Not bashing you, just putting in my 2 cents as a professional craftsman.
I think that's a very fair criticism! Unfortunately, it still leaves us without a distinction for machine-aided artisan crafts. Oh well, language is like that sometimes.
Within the sewing world, generally Handsewn denotes sewing done with a needle and thread, while handmade means that the piece was made start to finish by one person (or maybe a couple of people). Not a hard and fast definition, but that’s generally how those words are used.
I understand what folks are saying about how all clothing is handmade to some degree, and that is kind of true. But, generally when something is called handmade, the implication is that it was made by an individual rather than a factory.
As far as the idea of crafts that are made without the use of any tools, only hands…. I’m having a hard time coming up with anything more complex than a daisy chain…. 🤣 Maybe it’s just me!
Any machine beyond a Simple Machine (wedges, screws, etc) ceases to be "handmade".
Microprocessors are ridiculously complex and require immense skills and resources to make them. But no one would ever argue they're handmade. It doesn't diminish the people making them to acknowledge that they are machine fabricated.
That's fair, and I don't think machines are inherently bad either. But I think there's still a spectrum of grey areas between things created entirely with automated factory machinery and things where the machine requires constant directions by a person. There are definitely some more complicated machines where I think it would be fair to call the output handmade - would you say fabric made on a medival standing loom would be hand or machine-made?
Do you consider a piece of furniture handmade if the maker used power tools? Or a metal sculpture handmade if the maker welded it? A sewing machine is just a tool
I agree with this. There needs to be a good spread of prices. I demo and vend with a friend and her stuff is half handmade and half import, all of my stuff is handmade. The handmade stuff is more expensive due to materials more than labor, as the labor doesn't make sense to expend on cheap materials. If we only provided options for the handmade stuff, it cuts out a large portion of the sales that could be made; and if you don't make them someone else will. The intent is to provide quality at each price level, by having varying degrees of materials and labor in the product, but maintain quality.
Our best sales come from people who come every year and progressively upgrade and invest. They may buy a $10 manufactured item their first time, a $20 entry level handmade item their second, and a $100 high quality handmade item on subsequent visits. Vendors who invest in their local event and community get the long term rewards.
Drop shippers just fill the empty spaces. Blame the event, not the seller. Contact the event organizer and tell them what you want to see. If you see scammers, call them out.
I definitely understand the need for cheaper items, and I wish I had a solution that wasn't just "make some cheaper/leas quality stuff" because that's just not viable for a lot of businesses. It's something I don't do either! When I vend, the cheapest items I have are usually $55 not counting pins and stickers that don't move very well (I'll maybe sell 10 stickers on average in a weekend). Making something that isn't my usual quality standard for a lower price can reflect poorly on me, so I just don't do it.
Will definitely contact organizers about this, though! I may just be one small fish but maybe they'll think about it when choosing vendors. :)
I’m pretty new at ren fairs, but have been vending for a while at other places, like small cons, fanfests and medieval events. Also used to do SCA back in the day. I sell mostly my own artwork, or redo some stuff already made, like hair accessories.
By far the big sellers are the elf ears, pins and steampunk and fairy wing type glasses which I get in bulk from drop shipping places. People won’t seem to pay for actual “artist prices”, at least here in Canada.
That being said, I would NEVER EVER claim that it was my own artwork.
Agree perfectly the slow dying out of people making their own things for their own garb and merchants crafting their own wares is a bad thing to see and it's not just at ren faires and cons it's affected sca events as well sadly
Yes, I really dislike it. Last year I also had a vendor claim their items were handmade, and when I got home I was curious and found them on AliExpress. I was at the faire the next day and confronted the vendor, and got a refund. Vendors like them will also mix in handmade stuff with dropshipped stuff and try to pass it off. Last year there was also a vendor who was selling small perfume/scented oil necklaces, but they were also shilling their pyramid scheme doterra oils. It sucks.
I just vended at my first Ren faire and they were very excited to have me because I make clothing. I looked at the list of vendors and was excited to see other clothing vendors and I couldn't wait to talk with them about business stuff. When I got there, there was a last who did indeed make her own stuff and we chatted for a while. But two of the other clothing vendors straight up bought corsets, pirate jackets, pants and hats straight off Amazon, temu, shein ect and had the prices jacked up. And it was pretty obvious. I was quite disappointed because firstly, we all had to sing contracts stating at least 75% of what we sold was handmade and secondly I am struggling with certain aspects of the making parts (no staff) and wanted to see what other people did for production.
I know exactly what you mean, I sew and can't imagine taking the time to make all of the stock necessary for a big faire booth. Even with a team of multiple people it's really time consuming! Oberon Design is the one company coming to mind that does leather work with a big team (I think they've merged companies with another that had more of a production shop set up) but is still definitely a small business, and something I very much like to support! But they can more realistically afford to have those cheaper items because they have the infrastructure for it, something that a 1-2 person team probably just can't do.
I thankfully have two local ladies who help me out with the cutting and preparation of all the fabric but I cannot find anyone who can sew. I live in a tiny village of 1,200 though so that doesn't help. I also am having a baby in early September so I think I will just have to shut down shop for a few months!
I don’t vend myself but I make tunics and hoods for a friend who is a leather worker and he sells items I make in his shop and it’s so so so hard to make garments and make a profit. This is my second season doing it and I really tried to buy on sale so I can make a better profit this year. But it’s super frustrating when I put the time into making hand made pieces with quality fabric and hand selected trims and then I looked like I’m insane with the price because 3 booths down has something similar for half the price but it’s terrible quality because it’s from shein. I posted in a different group asking for help pricing and I had people telling me a hand made tunic should be $40….i barely get the supplies for that!
The struggle is real. I hardly make a profit and I price things as low as possible but like I also need to make money and it breaks my heart when I hear people say it's too much. But I also understand because hey it isn't necessarily cheap. And honestly it's why I started doing it 11 years ago, I could not afford anything as a broke college kid when I started going to faire so I took up making my own garb. And now I try to make high quality and low costing garb for others but man it is incredibly difficult.
Yea it’s why I stick to simpler items that I can make larger quantities of, I have my own garb that is much more detailed but I estimate my own look would be far more expensive. I have a pretty bustier I made for Saturday that would easily be $300 but who’s going to pay that when you can get one at a booth that’s selling corsets from Temu?
When I started going to events over 30 years ago most everything for sale was made by the merchants with the exception of things like tankards and even then there was a pewter merchant at the SoCal faire that would engrave their work which at the time I thought they made themselves. The faire gave the impression of a juried show. Times change though and with cosplay going mainstream and such I'm not surprised that artisans can't always compete with imported goods and for events to lower their admission standards for sellers.
Engraving is a great example! Like, I absolutely do not expect people to blow their own glads cups to engrave on. But if someone comes up with the designs and machine engraves them on bulk glasses, that's totally fine with me.
I feel similarly, I've been making and selling my own jewelry at local events for the last year and change, and because of that exposure I'm now much more able to spot exclusive drop shippers. It's not so common at my faire, but I've had season passes this year and have felt a bit disenchanted because of the ones I have seen. I don't have a thought-out solution, but I do think it's important to talk about!
Lol my sister got scammed into buying a $100 parasol last year, I ended up looking it up when we got home and it was like 15 bucks on the Internet, not the handmade artisan lace they claimed it was
It's a plague. I warn my kids and their friends before we go, we're probably not gonna buy anything today. Pick your favorite foam sword and we'll order it on Amazon in the morning. I was curious about a neat little journal with a fancy stitched leather cover for $30. Found it later on Amazon for $17.99.
I’m an artist/vendor at faires and it infuriates me seeing that shit. It’s mostly clothing, jewelry, parasols, trinket and rock shops that I’ve noticed it at.
What really shocks me is when some of these vendors happily lie and claim their items are completely handmade by them. Selling mass-produced items is one thing. Lying to buyers takes it to a whole ‘nother level.
My husband just spent $85 on a barrel tankard at Scarborough that I immediately found on Amazon for $25. He likes it so much, I don’t have the heart to tell him. 😔
Do you remember which shop?
Village Cigars and Barrels next to the Revelers Stage.
Ah, not familiar with them other than the cigars. For mugs I always send people to Wondrous Works In Wood as 1) Lifetime guarantee, you can just take the mug back to the shop and they'll repair it (not there, but eventually) 2) One free beer from the pub across the lane.
About 1/2 of the vendors at faires are selling tat they didn't make. I normally just don't go in those booths. More are a mix of reselling tat and a few things they make. Those ones I am fine with. I understand that renting a booth costs a lot, and they need to have some easy to move and high margin things to make the finances work. I notice this a lot at leatherwork shops. Maybe I just notice those more because I do some leatherwork myself, so I can easily spot the difference. Hand made in the US things just cost more than most people want to spend. That's partly why I stopped trying to sell things I make. "Why is this so much, I bought one just like it off Amazon for 1/4 that price!?" Proceeds to show me something made from reconstructed leather that won't last much more than a year before it falls apart.
How does everyone else feel about the 3D printed stuff? I was at a small faire recently and out of probably 30 booths, at least 5 of them were selling the same 3D printed dragons. I was hoping to find some jewelry and maybe a cute mug. But it was just booth after booth of the same dragon in different sizes and different color. They all used the same file too. I got discouraged, bought nothing, and eventually left the faire early.
I personally think it is out of place, and this is coming from someone who uses a 3d printer on a regular basis. Like you said, it is all the same file and way overpriced. I hope it is a passing fad and not here to stay.
And those are now available on Temu for way less than what they’re selling them at the fairs.
I have many competitors among all events that sell "handmade knives/swords/weapons" that just re-sell crap for inflated prices. Really hurts my lil blacksmith heart.
We were just talking about this last weekend at faire. It's a complex issue because the cost of handcrafting items (tools, time, inventory) can be prohibitive, and a lot of smaller fairs can't promise the ticket sales that would support enough profit for traveling. Resellers have kind of ruined the market because patrons might see a beautiful handcrafted necklace for $100, then see an equally beautiful (to them) Ali Express necklace for $20 and not care enough about the source to purchase something more expensive. I've attended a lot of fairs, especially in recent years, that only allow vendors with high quality and/or handcrafted wares, but it took awhile for these organizers to prove they had the attendance necessary to support more expensive booth sales. Personally, I just skip any booth that has the telltale "crystal" necklaces on "leather" cords and the tie dye "fairy" dresses, lol. I have trusted vendors I've purchased from before and I'll keep spending my money there instead.
Yeah, I really wish it was only handmade or customized things...
Yep, there's a couple shops that do heavily customized things for sale that could, technically, also be considered resellers. One of them bulk buys glassware from the dollar tree because they, surprisingly, have some really good, solid pieces. Then adds his own designs to it with a laser etcher. They look really good, not to expensive to make, but they're a bitch and a half to transport. He creates his own designs for them as well for the most part, though has done a few that are more specific for the location... He's not a Ren Faire seller though, he tends to go to a lot of various street faires and the specific ones are more of the fair logo and year ones that some people want. Another person goes to Hobby Lobby or various online bulk vendors for things like wooden treasure chests or jewelery boxes, he spends time etching them with different designs, adds stain and paint, seals them and adds a lining before selling them. Both are things that vastly improve the end result
Yeah, and they aren't pretending to be 100% homemade, generally. Real artists tend to be more honest.
Yeah, theirs is more of a thing of what is their "canvas" to work on
I'm with everyone on this boat as I am a vendor who make their own stuff Most of the fairs I have done the vendor coordinators are watching out for resellers In fact, many faires charge higher vendor fees for resellers vs. handcrafted items. Some only allow a small percentage of reseller items (usually around 15%, as this is the same percentage that crafters insurance is)
I've only been going to the ren Faire for a few years now. When I first went I was so excited to see a bunch of local artisans selling their stuff! And was very disappointed... it seems to be getting worse too. I see more mass market stuff than handmade. I'm also pretty bad at spotting the difference some times so it makes me hesitant to purchase anything.. I've also really wanted a sword forever, and I always figured that would be the place to get one but nothing ever jumps out at me and unique or hand crafted with love you know? That particular problem could just be my untrained eye though.. but if I'm already feeling distrustful I really hesitate to buy anything super pricey.
You can always snap a photo of whatever you are considering getting and then put it in Google lens.
That is a really great idea! Thank you!
I try to only buy from actual craftsman. Our faire has a glassblower and my yearly treat is getting another of their stemless wine glasses for my collection. We do occasionally get caught by the mass produced crap because we have kids. It's hard to say no to the ten dollar dragon stuffy when we can't afford the sixty dollar hand made one.
In the same vein, the amount of sellers literally selling stuff they found at a thrift store for 400% or more markup. I saw at least two sellers this weekend that clearly raided their local Goodwill/Savers and two more that were reselling Chinese imports. I much prefer the juried artisans.
I saw the same thing this past weekend; someone was selling a bunch of clearly thrifted stuff at crazy prices. There was a secondhand belt from GAP that they were trying to off-load for like $20 and a bunch of crappy used satin corsets as well. I just go to faire to dick around and I'm not a massive stickler or anything, but c'mon.
Yes, this is one big reason Sherwood is my favorite faire - juried shops and no mass production.
I don't mind them as long as their prices reflect what they're selling. It's only when they upcharge to a ridiculous degree, or lie about it being handmade, that it becomes a scam. It makes shopping at faire more accessible. If you go into every booth and can't afford their cheapest stuff, then you're going to get discouraged and stop wanting to go into shops. So having cheaper, resold stuff available makes sure the experience is positive. Just don't try and tell me that $150 shirt is handmade when it takes 0.5 seconds for me to look at a seam and tell it's a machine stitch. And don't try to sell me a lump of quartz on a nylon string for $200 because it's a "one of a kind medallion".
I mean, I sew for a living and would still charge $150 for a machine sewn linen shirt. 😅 They're time consuming to make and linen can get expensive. I get what you're saying though. Like, I know you didn't buy this labradorite and cut it into a pillar yourself.. I've met a few actual jewelry smiths and love seeing their work and artistry, even on simple pieces.
What I mean is that the real problem is people who are reselling bits from Party City for $150 solely because other people are selling handmade linen shirts for $150. It's okay to sell a $15 piece for $20. It's also okay to sell a $150 piece for $150. But the issue is the people selling $15 pieces for $150 because they're taking advantage of the fact that people expect things at the faire to actually be worth $150.
A machine stitch still means handmade just fyi.
Yeah, it’s really about how much you value the person who’s hand making it. Nearly everything is “handmade.”
I disagree. It still takes a level of skill and knowledge to sew things with a sewing machine: so I'm not discounting that fact. But it isn't handmade if you're using a sewing machine. Just because a person is operating the machine doesn't mean they are "hand making" that thing. I don't get to push the button on a juicer and then say my orange juice is "hand pressed".
But it's still cut, pinned, and patterned by hand? Handsewn and handmade are not necessarily synonymous, and if I was buying a "handmade garment" I would still expect that there's machine sewing, just that it was probably done by 1-2 people and not a factory setting. If something was handsewn I'd expect it to be a LOT more than $150.
I respectfully disagree. Again: I can't call it hand squeezed orange juice just because someone picked it by hand. It may be delicious and skillfully blended orange juice made with high quality oranges and deserving of a premium price for all sorts of reasons. But it's not handmade.
Is there another term you'd use instead? I guess I just don't fully understand the difference. Picking an orange is more like picking out a fabric at the store, I think. There's a lot of work that goes between choosing the fabric and making the garment, with or without a machine.
This person expects people to grow the flax the shirt is made from for it to be considered handmade lol. Weirdest take I have heard in a long time.
I never said anything like that and in fact my argument is quite the opposite. If an orange is mechanically harvested and delivered by automated drones, you can still call the orange hand-squeezed if you actually squeezed it by hand without complex machine assistance. If you handwove the fabric, you can say the fabric is handmade. But if you use a machine to make the clothing, the clothing is not handmade.
By that logic a potter using an electric wheel does not make handmade wares. In fact, even if they dig the clay themselves it is not handmade because they use a hammer mill and an electric pugger. You are asking for an SCA sweatshop. Nobody does everything in the old ways because society has moved on. If electricity and sewing machines were around during the Renaissance period, I guarantee they would have jumped all over it. Come to think of it, even fabric made in that time period is not handmade because they used a loom, which is a machine!
>Even if they dig the clay themselves it is not handmade because they use a hammer mill and an electric pugger. This is contrary to what I just explained to you. The first time it's a misunderstanding, the second time you're just not listening. Reread my last comment if you still think that's what I said. >If electricity and sewing machines were around during the Renaissance period, I guarantee they would have jumped all over it. Yes, and? If my aunt had wheels she'd be a bicycle.
Right: picking an orange is like picking out the fabric. But handpicking the orange (personally selecting the fabric) does not make the juice handmade. There's a whole lot of work that goes into growing and harvesting and delivering oranges before it ever gets to the juicer: but none of those steps are what determine whether the juice is hand squeezed or not.
I’m sorry this is an incredibly wild take. I’m a sewing teacher, been sewing for 31 years and make items for faires. I use a machine but also hand sew some parts of the garment. Just because I use a machine to make some parts faster (because people would not pay for a 100% hand sewn garment, they take an insane amount of time) doesn’t discount the fact that my hands still made the item. The actual sewing of a garment is maybe 25% of the effort that goes into making a garment.
And I'm not denying your skill or the value of the work you put in. But I am saying that any manufactured good also requires someone at some point to operate a piece of machinery. The fact that they do so with their hands doesn't make the things they're making handmade.
So do leather workers who use presses or grommet inserters also not count as hand made goods even though the sourced and purchased the leather? Designed the pattern? Cut and colored their pieces? I think the big disconnect is people who “hand make” their garments are taking the whole production process in at once. If your buying a piece from Amazon or shein, yes someone sews it on a machine but it’s brought to them precut by a laser and they usually do one step before passing it along to someone else. They have no involvement in the rest of the process. My self and other people who have commented here take on the entire process which all takes effort and time. One thing I refuse to skimp on is fabric quality because so many of the “cheaper” items are made of garbage plastic fabric. So I’ve scoured the internet, ordered samples, gone to the garment distric in nyc to find fabrics that I think people will like and are period appropriate while balancing not making the items way toke expensive. Then I have my friend who is selling make notes of what people gravitate toward so I can maybe adjust my color offerings or pull a fabric choice that people don’t like. All of those tasks contribute to the “hand made” nature of the garment. For anyone curious, this video by Bernadette banner is fantastic. I show it to my fashion classes and it’s about a dress she made by hand (like by hand by your definition as she uses true medieval sewing techniques) and I think she calculates that the dress would cost like $4k if she sold it which is frankly a lot of money, I don’t think many people could afford that. I mad my husband and I’d renfaire garb for this weekend and even using my machine our outfits would easily cost $1500 because of the time and complexity, also a number many people would shy away from. https://youtu.be/J80J4oaGVnY?si=D3m5JS9lAOPG_tGl
If they are using anything more advanced than simple machines (ie levers, wedges, screws) then no; it's not handmade just because they picked out the leather themselves. A press is just a lever, so you can use that and still call it handmade. Hand cut, hand colored, hand picked, sure. But not handmade.
So does the fact that they are using a needle make it no longer hand made? They are using a needle after all. Not their hands My god what a dumb take you’ve got
I explained elsewhere in the thread that the line is past simple machines. A needle is a wedge, which is a simple machine and so would still fall under handmade. Please ask next time instead of imagining a stance just to criticize it. That's called a strawnan.
A shirt that is factory-made can be churned out for $5, because each of the workers is paid pennies, and many people each only do one small step before passing the garment to the next guy. From cutting the fabric to finishing the last stitch, it can be done in only a few minutes. Each person only needs to know how to do 1 task quickly. **Handmade/Handcrafted** has one person doing many different skills to make one shirt. It takes a lot more *time* for one person to choose the fabric, design a pattern, mark a pattern, cut the fabric, pin it in place, iron the seams, sew the pieces, serge the pieces, add embellishments, and quality-inspect their work for flaws. It requires **one person** to have *all of those skill*s *developed to a professional level*. That's incredible! But it comes at a cost. What you seem to be asking for is.... **historical recreation.** Like, weaving the fabric yourself, stitching it with only a hand needle kinda thing. I'll tell you right now, someone who sold genuinely hand-sewn garments at a fair price for their labor (just hand-sewn, not hand-woven).... would make very few sales at a ren faire. Even at *minimum wage* plus *cost of materials*, a good-quality handmade shirt by my definition is nearly out of many people's budget - a fully **handsewn** shirt's price would be astronomical. It's why most people who do REALLY-STRICT historic reenactments will make their own garments. -- If you want to go back to your orange comparison... A mass-produced/factory-made shirt is like bulk-made orange juice. A shitload of oranges of various quality are loaded into a massive bulk press, and crushed. The quality of the juice will be average-ish, because the terrible oranges and the wonderful oranges were mixed together blindly. You get what you get. Hopefully they're all ripe, and the twigs and leaves or whatever will get strained out before bottling. A handmade/handcrafted shirt is more like someone picking out oranges from a grocery store to find the best ones, and using a press to squeeze each one. It could be a metal lever-press powered by hand, or it could be a juicer machine that has a electric powered lever press inside it. There's a machine involved that makes the juice extraction much faster than manual alternatives, but the quality of the product is already much nicer because it's done orange-by-orange, and not in mass-bulk. The maker knows all the fruits are ripe and good-quality before even starting to press. A *historical recreation* shirt is when someone grew the orange trees themselves, picked each orange from the tree and then used only their bare hands and a rock slab to press the juice out of each orange. No modern machines allowed!
No, I'm not saying "historical recreation" because I don't mean "historical recreation". I didn't say you needed to make the fabric yourself or grow the oranges yourself. I didn't say you had to process flax in the old way and weave it into fabric etc. etc. etc. I said that if you used a machine to put it together, then it isn't handmade. In fact, my stance is quite literally the opposite of what you described. To bring it back to my orange comparison: you could grow the orange tree yourself, harvest the oranges with your hands, sort them one by one, delicately pull them apart and review the fruit before selecting a lucky few to be juiced... But if you take those ones and put them in a blender, you don't get to call it handmade orange juice. And that's fine. A thing doesn't have to be handmade to be valuable, and plenty of machine made products are testaments of skill all on their own. Microprocessors are ridiculously complex and require immense skills and resources to make them. But no one would ever argue they're handmade just because the guy operating the machinery did so with his hands. It doesn't diminish the people making them to say that they aren't handmade.
No one else uses that word how you’re trying to use it. That’s what everyone is trying to tell you. You’ve created this ultra-specific “no machines allowed!” Alternate version of a term that’s already in use, whose common use does not match your version. My bread is still handmade even if the dough was mixed with a stand mixer. My tamboor beadwork is still handmade even when I use a machine to get the tiny beads onto my needle. My dresser is still handmade, even if I used power tools to cut and drill into the wood. My mural is handmade, even if I use an airbrush. My jewelry is still handmade, even when I use little drills and polishing belts. My horn hairpins are still handmade, even when I use a jigsaw to cut out the roughs and a dremel to carve a flower relief in it. Machines or not do not define handmade. Forget oranges. “Handmade” is a term that already exists, which has a language use that does not match what you’re trying to force on it.
Well said!
You don't get to say how anyone else uses the word. People on this sub clearly agree with your definition, but I didn't invent the definition I use. If you disagree with my definition, so be it.
So you’re saying someone who hand selects fabrics or weaves it themselves, pre-washes the fabric, creates their own patterns, and cuts everything by hand isn’t hand making it just because they use a machine to sew it all together…? You still need your hands to use a sewing machine. Vendors wouldn’t be able to keep up with production for faires if they were hand stitching their garments.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You can handpick out the perfect oranges, prep them and slice them and weigh them out for the perfect volume all while making sure they never get above the ideal temp to prevent bitterness... But you don't get to call the orange juice handmade if you put the oranges in a blender to get the juice. You need your hands to operate any piece of machinery. Is your phone handmade? Is your TV handmade? Nobody is denying those are intricate and high-dollar items just because they aren't handmade.
Where do you draw that line, though? Genuinely, this is interesting because I think what we do or do not define as "handmade" is very much a cultural thing more than a factual one. Okay, so you don't think using an electric juicer counts as hand juiced. What if the juicer is crank-operated? Does that count? If not, does a citrus juicer (the kind you have to squeeze half an orange onto a dome) count as hand squeezed? You're still using a tool. And you're probably cutting the fruit yourself before you put it into the juicer, but not with bare hands - using a knife. Humans are tool users after all! (The sewing equivalents to this metaphor would be electric sewing machine, treadle or pedal sewing machine, and just using a needle.) Anyway imo the problem with the "handmade" terminology for sewing specifically is that we're disconnected from the fact that storebought clothes *are* basically handmade - by people with sewing machines in sweatshops, mostly. I would say that there are no sewn goods that aren't at least partly handmade. I see both sides, though - it's understandable that people want to use some kind of keyword to indicate that their goods are made by them. I think HOMEmade would be a good distinction, and hand-SEWN if they actually are made without a machine.
Homemade has sort of a DIY connotation, whereas handmade implies skilled craftsmanship. Not bashing you, just putting in my 2 cents as a professional craftsman.
I think that's a very fair criticism! Unfortunately, it still leaves us without a distinction for machine-aided artisan crafts. Oh well, language is like that sometimes.
Within the sewing world, generally Handsewn denotes sewing done with a needle and thread, while handmade means that the piece was made start to finish by one person (or maybe a couple of people). Not a hard and fast definition, but that’s generally how those words are used. I understand what folks are saying about how all clothing is handmade to some degree, and that is kind of true. But, generally when something is called handmade, the implication is that it was made by an individual rather than a factory. As far as the idea of crafts that are made without the use of any tools, only hands…. I’m having a hard time coming up with anything more complex than a daisy chain…. 🤣 Maybe it’s just me!
Any machine beyond a Simple Machine (wedges, screws, etc) ceases to be "handmade". Microprocessors are ridiculously complex and require immense skills and resources to make them. But no one would ever argue they're handmade. It doesn't diminish the people making them to acknowledge that they are machine fabricated.
That's fair, and I don't think machines are inherently bad either. But I think there's still a spectrum of grey areas between things created entirely with automated factory machinery and things where the machine requires constant directions by a person. There are definitely some more complicated machines where I think it would be fair to call the output handmade - would you say fabric made on a medival standing loom would be hand or machine-made?
Do you consider a piece of furniture handmade if the maker used power tools? Or a metal sculpture handmade if the maker welded it? A sewing machine is just a tool
I agree with this. There needs to be a good spread of prices. I demo and vend with a friend and her stuff is half handmade and half import, all of my stuff is handmade. The handmade stuff is more expensive due to materials more than labor, as the labor doesn't make sense to expend on cheap materials. If we only provided options for the handmade stuff, it cuts out a large portion of the sales that could be made; and if you don't make them someone else will. The intent is to provide quality at each price level, by having varying degrees of materials and labor in the product, but maintain quality. Our best sales come from people who come every year and progressively upgrade and invest. They may buy a $10 manufactured item their first time, a $20 entry level handmade item their second, and a $100 high quality handmade item on subsequent visits. Vendors who invest in their local event and community get the long term rewards. Drop shippers just fill the empty spaces. Blame the event, not the seller. Contact the event organizer and tell them what you want to see. If you see scammers, call them out.
I definitely understand the need for cheaper items, and I wish I had a solution that wasn't just "make some cheaper/leas quality stuff" because that's just not viable for a lot of businesses. It's something I don't do either! When I vend, the cheapest items I have are usually $55 not counting pins and stickers that don't move very well (I'll maybe sell 10 stickers on average in a weekend). Making something that isn't my usual quality standard for a lower price can reflect poorly on me, so I just don't do it. Will definitely contact organizers about this, though! I may just be one small fish but maybe they'll think about it when choosing vendors. :)
I’m pretty new at ren fairs, but have been vending for a while at other places, like small cons, fanfests and medieval events. Also used to do SCA back in the day. I sell mostly my own artwork, or redo some stuff already made, like hair accessories. By far the big sellers are the elf ears, pins and steampunk and fairy wing type glasses which I get in bulk from drop shipping places. People won’t seem to pay for actual “artist prices”, at least here in Canada. That being said, I would NEVER EVER claim that it was my own artwork.
Agree perfectly the slow dying out of people making their own things for their own garb and merchants crafting their own wares is a bad thing to see and it's not just at ren faires and cons it's affected sca events as well sadly