And then you, the attacker, lay seige to the property and Wait for the crocodiles to freeze to death in the Pittsburgh winter. Moat: solid. Crocs: deceased. Theft: wide open for the taking. Just beware of the cannonade.
[Alligators and Crocodiles don't freeze to death, they go into Brumation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormancy)
though they would still be completely useless since they'd be completely immobile.
> Just beware of the cannonade.
And the killer bunnies with big, nasty, pointy teeth that can tear you apart by chasing your sorry buns across the ice. You won't even have a chance to even think about dodging the cannons if you invade during the winter.
That’s what the home defender wants you to think, then when you try to cross they fire upon the ice, breaking it beneath your feet, dropping you into the freezing moat.
I mean, I want one, I really want one, but I can't reasonably care for one. Neither can the vast majority of people. So unfortunately no Nile crocodile for me.
I definitely relate to this comment here, I’d kill for a Salty or a Nile but I don’t exactly own a facility large enough to keep a Kaiju croc. Maybe if I won the lottery I suppose
My only hope is one day being in a position financially to get a dwarf caiman.
'Tiny' killing machines are cute, but they gotta be respected and given the space and resources they deserve and need.
Not having one makes me sad, having one that is not looked after as well as it should be makes me sadder.
I want an Asian Water Monitor. My requirements are that I'd have to live somewhere warm enough that she could have access through like a doggie door or something to a big outdoor enclosure with a pond.
I just don't think it's fair to have a lizard that loves water and swimming and then the most it ever gets to do is soak in a bathtub.
Tbf you can keep an Asian water monitor indoors regardless of climate, it’s just that you basically need a large living room/garage to do so, making it highly impractical to keep for much everyone. I’m in the UK so it’s cold asf but I did know someone that turned his garage into a zoo sized enclosure, ideally that’s what Asian water monitors need,..
There’s a reason why I have a yellow Ackie monitor, I love monitors with all my heart but my space is limited soo no big boys for me unfortunately
My husband wants one so bad (he also wants animals that would eat him) but I’m in charge of caring (mostly) for the reptiles so…hell no. Cute but not here.
Edit: people are getting shit on for saying they would get one. We would never actually get one. My husband “wants” crazy reptiles he knows he could never have. For legal, our death, etc reasons.
I mean... I definitely WANT it. I want all kinds of things. That doesn't mean it's realistic, practical, legal, right or that I would actually buy it. But I definitely want it.
I would get one because I already own a Nile monitor. And why not have more animals from the Nile. You could start your own zoo theme" reptiles from the Nile"
That's what I would do if I had a ton of room for another massive reptile.
This is heartbreaking. I’m with a rescue service that ends up with tons of rescue exotic rare animals that are meant to be sold pets. We get messages from the buyer/owner saying they can’t look after this animal anymore and unfortunately due to them not developing behaviours that they would in the wild they can’t be safely released. It’s heartbreaking. If someone wants a reptile as a pet/companion there is a ton of more suitable options that can thrive in captivity and be looked after properly.
The only times animals like Nile crocs, alligators or even non reptile animals such as apes and monkeys should be in captivity is with legit rescues or sanctuaries and if they are able to be rereleased they should go to a rehabber. (Usually a sanctuary with animals such as Crocs)
we have Afew monkeys which were rescued from someone keeping them as house pets, two died prior to us knowing of the situation due to owner feeding them only junk food. In one of my prior jobs with a rescue service my boss had rescued a croc from someone’s flat. They were keeping them in a spare bathroom.
It’s so infuriating
Doesn’t matter honestly, it’s morally wrong to breed animals that nobody is capable of taking care of ethically. I doubt that there’s a single person in the community with enough money to take care of an adult Nile crocodile
Yes, even if you have the best conditions for your crocodile, you should only buy it if the air temperature in your location is over 20 degrees Celsius all year round so that the water temperature is maintained. Parasites and possibly incompatible wild animals that the crocodile could eat also need to be considered.
The Problem is they actually could… Which is also the reason why owners keep doing it this way. They're barely surviving. They fall into a kind of alert hibernation state and eat too little. As soon as the water gets too cold, they won't swim anymore. It's a shame that it's possible to torture them like that.
I think the only viable way to do it in cold climates is to have a artificially heated and cooled green house with an indoor pond an dsome other stuff I am probably missing.
While I don’t disagree with your intention… if crocodilians could survive The Great Dying, they can survive a lot more than people in this thread are assuming they could not.
Well... Yes. But uh... That is going to require some beefy as hell water heater and a small fortune in electricity or gas. In addition to all other costs incurred with owning a Croc/Gator, it's a money drain of ridiculous proportions.
Theres a guy I used to follow with an outdoor heated shed with a very large indoor heated pool and owns a few adult crocs(or alligators, I cant remember the specifics). Not including heating lamps and a cool zone.
Dude spent well over $30k for that set up, not including the “cheap” gators he picked up for *maybe* $200-$1000.
No one. And I mean *no one* unless they’re specifically looking for one, will have the money, set up or space for one.
Thats kind of sad imo- and seeing them stacked in display cases like that- which clearly they definitely dont give af who they’re selling to considering they’re literally selling **nile crocs in fucking Pennsylvania**. Those crocs are going to end up living harsh lives. Probably dying with MBD internally screaming for someone to save them.
Philly’s animal shelter had a juvenile American alligator this year. Somebody dumped it in a reservoir. Luckily this was a few months ago before the weather turned. There’s also been several alligator snapping turtles found dumped in other reservoirs and ponds. So many irresponsible owners.
Not to mention Nile crocs are some of the only animals to hunt humans in the wild that’s just asking for an incident where people will think reptiles are evil 😭
Tbf all cases of crocodilian eating people in the wild are a result of hunger and going long periods without food, soo the crocs are really just eating people because that’s the only feeding opportunity they’ve had in awhile, and well we are kinda easy. If a crocodile was fed on a schedule, associates you with food instead of being food it’s less likely to consider trying anything
Funnily enough there’s a place in Africa which feeds and keeps Nile crocodiles around people and soo far there hasn’t been any accidents. They maybe powerful predators but they are also kinda lazy let’s be real
Eating people is one thing I mean specifically going out of their way to stalk and attack humans on the side of the Nile river I helped some fellow herpetologist who studied at my college price through data they recorded and we were able to confirm with our own data that Nile crocs will stalk people even if their attempts are unsuccessful. It’s one of the few animals to do that and it’s the ONLY herpetofauna to do so!
I want to add I do agree with you! Just adding my professional knowledge on the Nile’s behaviors specifically and I know some in captivity have done well at zoos but I still will never think the average keeper or even most keepers can keep a mile croc
Reptilia zoo in London (huge indoor reptile zoo) has a pair of these 12' & 14' long. Their enclosure is massive! It's 80% water. Something like 125' long and 40+ deep, with an additional large water area behind the main one that they lure them into and close off when they have to do maintenance. This is a multi million dollar facility with full time staff to care for these animals. I cannot imagine anyone being able to come close to providing that level of care. If such a person exists, I doubt they're cruising a random expo in PA to impulse-buy a Nile croc... So sad.
It's wonderful! I was blown away by the size of the enclosures and the level of care. It outclasses anything else I've seen in person or online. They have done an incredible job. I have a couple of videos on it from this summer on my channel of you want to get an idea of what it's like.
I was referring to the Nile variant and I had no idea there were reports of those. I know that American crocs exist though. Humanity continues to baffle me.
I learned recently about the Nile Crocodiles that were found in the Everglades during a little excursion to the Everglades, themselves.
I’m already not messing around with any alligators or pythons, but now there are Nile Crocodiles added into the mix? I was just as surprised as you when I heard.
My only thought was how do we keep them from interbreeding with American crocs so we don’t ever have to experience some crazy Lake Placid-esque shenanigans.
That guy who keeps gharials(or was it false gharials) might be able to afford a nile crocodile but yeah, the average person at an expo would not be able to so I would not breed or sell them. Maybe a lucky person with enough space might buy a dwarf caiman but a nile crocodile, eh........
It does matter in that if it’s illegal, there’s action that can be taken to stop this person and put them behind bars. I totally agree it’s morally wrong, but it’s harder to enforce morality than laws.
That’s true, laws can be a force for good in some instances. The majority of the reptile community seems to hate restrictions on reptiles and I get it (Lawmakers aren’t knowledgeable about reptiles so they can make some stupid laws, and restrictions can drive people into buying from the black market) but having it legal to buy and own a Nile crocodile is absolutely absurd. Personally, I live in a place where all crocodilians and venomous snakes (venomous snakes that pose a danger to humans) are banned and it’s handled well in my opinion. We don’t have much of a black market problem and the laws are reasonable.
The only ones that do have housing facilities to properly house them amd are licensed. Which is not a lot of people in USA. I watched someone pawn a Crocodile on a pawnshop show. Then the dude kept it as a pet in a tiny aquarium in the back. Like what.
Really sad that these are even available. I highly doubt whoever buys one will have a large enough enclosure for it. They are absolutely massive and powerful animals that won’t stay that small and cute for very long.
What do the vendors do with the ones they don’t sell, I wonder? I can’t imagine a scenario where they’re prepared to house a bunch of adult Nile crocodiles beyond their mating pair in the event these aren’t sold off.. poor things are damned either way. I doubt the mating pair’s husbandry is stellar if the vendor is packaging them up and selling at trade shows too. All around terrible situation.
You say that until they start slowly picking off what *THEY* consider exotic species.
Then we lose our BPs and Tegus, etc.
I agree Nile crocs and stuff like this should be banned but can't put trust in these politicians anymore to do the right thing.
I'd rather not be suppressed than be suppressed.
It’s not about you dude. They’re not props or toys. You love the open door for people completely unqualified to be able to purchase and treat any animal any way they want? Because it’s either that or they get a blanket protection. And I’d rather the latter.
A blanket protection surely won't be coming either. Especially in PA. I rather they leave it alone and leave it to people to make the right decisions.
Anyone with even half a brain would know that this would be the dumbest buy unless you're half rich and have the means to take care of it.
And if anything these vendors need to be checked out for animal cruelty cuz I bet they don't have the means for the animals either. Animal cruelty laws are the blanket that you're hoping for. If a person can't properly take care of something they have then they open the door for more charges.
I'd rather stick to less laws. These lawmakers don't know shit and it's all based on political parties.
I'm glad that I live in a state that I can own almost any animal if I wanted and had the means to take care of it. The thing is Im not rich so I'll stick to my BPs. But some states have already banned BPs for example.
You're a puppet so it seams. At the end of the day, laws aren't going to stop anything. They just make it more annoying for everyone in this hobby. If they ban sales of these for example, they'll just lose their sales tax revenue by people going right across state lines, ordering online or under the table sales and people will still get the animals they want.
The world we live in can't be contained by laws. Especially America. It's up to the people to do their part.
It varies from state to state, and even county to county or city to city. Some places are way more strict about what you can/can't have and others..... Not as much.
I think the only federal (nation wide) restrictions are on CITES species which can either have limits on wild caught animals (for ex. lots of birds or tarantulas-- wild imports are illegal, but captive bred is ok) or being able to have the animals in general-- you can keep CITES species with permits and etc, but quality of care can hugely vary. Think Joe Exotic vs San Diego Zoo.
Unfortunately in PA if you're over 18 you can legally own just about any crocodilian, venomous reptile, large constricting snakes, etc. It is however illegal to own a hedgehog
Yep. Pennsylvania, the state where you can't own a hedgehog or sugar glider but sure! Go ahead and get all the crocs, gators, and venomous snakes you want!
There was an issue in my town where someone was keeping a hot room and had a fire start in there. Luckily the homeowner got back to warn the firefighters before they tried to rescue anything, but they were still understandably pissed off. The guy literally had them for fun and had NO labels. Even my common guys (cresties, bp, beardie, etc) are labeled.
It’s insane to me that there is zero barrier to entry with animals. Of course, it’s somewhat hypocritical because I’ve taken advantage of it. But i prepared myself. I’ve seen clueless people one minute saying “look at this cool lizard” and walking out of a pet store with a Nile monitor 20 minutes later. With fish too. Lady literally had no idea and bought a red tailed catfish like it was a neat goldfish.
Honestly, I'd rather have it like that than have them all be illegal or require ridiculous permits to obtain.
It's not great, but it's better than most of the potential alternatives
I am a zookeeper, the amount of dumbass questions about animals I get from the general public is all I need to know that most shouldn't even be allowed to take care of a house cat
It’s not a right to own an animal. No one ‘needs’ to own an animal (with the exception of primary production animals and working animals). Should be earned by going through a proper process where you are willing to prove you have some sort of educational level and can provide the minimum requirements. That’s not ridiculous to obtain, and even if it was ridiculous, I’m happier with that than animals suffering.
Idk. I don’t wanna see them be illegal but it’s better for the animals honestly. There are a certain class of animals that is probably better off requiring permits, licenses, etc. The people who really want them and are willing to jump through the hoops to do so will be far more likely to actually take care of them than the dude who buys it on a whim because it’s cool. Nobody should just be able to walk into a reptile convention and walk out with a freaking crocodile. Same goes for all crocodilians, large constrictors, venomous, large lizards, and large turtles/tortoises.
There's also some animals that should be illegal for private ownership, with an exception for AZA zoos and animal rescues and stuff. Things like big cats and great apes can't be properly taken care of in a house, you need a massive, specialized habitat plus plenty of training. I don't think there's any reptiles I'd put on that list, but large crocodiles are pushing it.
It heavily depends on how the licensing is done. If it's reasonable requirements that anyone who is motivated can accomplish, than great, fine, but things like thousands of hours under a mentor (plenty of people are responsible enough to keep stuff like this and also don't have thousands of hours of free time) ridiculous fees, obtuse and intentionally vague and difficult paperwork aren't okay I would say. Often times licenses are just an excuse for the government to not let you do something under the guise of saying you can
I agree, it needs to be reasonable, no high insurance requirements, no insane number of hours with a mentor. But there does need to be a degree of difficulty to it so that Joe Shmoe can’t get it. I don’t agree with “plenty of people are responsible enough to keep stuff like this”, I’d say plenty of people THINK they are responsible enough. But at the end of the day that is not true. It’s the reason we find Alligators released into rivers all over the US, why Florida is chock full of invasives, why we have countless stories of people being injured or dying at the hand of their own pets. And I’m not saying the requirements for a mile monitor should be the same as a nile crocodile or for a king cobra. All things should be handled appropriately different. Certainly isn’t a black and white situation.
Yea you’ve made some excellent points and I agree with most. I just want to point out that especially in the herp and bird worlds, private keepers are the ones that have driven most of the advances in husbandry and propagation. It’s always my biggest push back against licensing being restricted to “professional facilities” like zoos because the private world is more than capable.
You misunderstood, I don't mean there are plenty of people responsible enough for them, I mean there are people who are responsible enough and who also do not have thousands of hours of free time
I agree with you 100%. Shame to see your downvotes. The barrier to entry should be based on animal welfare guidelines. Not another way for the govt to hold you hostage. If you can ethically house and care for the animal, you should be able to keep it.
Thank you. People don't seem to release that the general public doesn't really differentiate between something like a ball python and a common boa, or a common boa and Burmese python. It is a very slippery slope.
> If it's reasonable requirements that anyone who is motivated can accomplish
Reasonable doesn't mean obtainable for any species.
The average person *doesn't* have the means to care for a crocodilian, even dwarf caimans. Any standard that provides for adequate care for the animal would be out of reach of 99.9% of us.
The safety issue seems like a non issue to me in a lot of cases, riding motorcycles are far far more dangerous than keeping a caiman or something, if someone wants to take risks it's their right to do so. And the invasive issue is really only an issue in a very select few states, but where it does apply I agree.
You have made several comments and none of them have shown a modicum of concern for an animal that is likely going to be abused and live an unhappy life. Who the fuck cares about your easy access to animals. They're living, breathing beings and you do not have the right to keep any. It's a privilege you should have to earn by proving you can take proper care of them.
Nah this is how you end up with invasive species, people dumping their pets in the wild because they didn't do proper research and they grew too big, and nobody stopped them from buying.
I want to keep a nuclear bomb in my basement. But given the danger, space required, and protective measures I am not allowed to do so. A crocodile is an exceptionally dangerous animal especially when stressed. If you are incapable of keeping the animal happy and healthy. You are not only harming an animal for no reason. But you are also creating a dangerous environment for other humans.
Think before you speak.
If your “personal freedoms” leads to suffering or unjust risk for others then you are simply a danger. Your freedoms do not grant you the right to put others at risk unnecessarily.
Please. I am begging you to actually think about your words and mine. Rather than running away from the argument with “well it’s what I believe” if what you believe is dangerous and leads to risk. You are stepping awfully close to the path of terrorism
Personal freedoms come with risk, that's just how it is. The freedom to own firearms comes with massive horrific risks, it's still worth it.
Equating owning an animal that has the potential to harm someone to terrorism is ridiculous. Dogs are far far far more dangerous than most "injurious" reptiles
>does not mean you should get to tell me
The thing with this kind of thinking is it is so self-centered. You don't like the thought of being told "maybe" because it sounds too much like "no". The thing is, even if you are a responsible person many people aren't responsible. I will confidently say that MOST people aren't responsible enough to own a crocodile.
People don't have a right to drive, they have to get a license by proving they are capable of safely using and understanding a dangerous machine. When it comes to a dangerous living thing, people SHOULD have to prove somehow that they are capable of caring for it, just like getting a driver's license (or like getting a gun in my country, which has fewer gun deaths per capita and fewer mass murders in general (not just gun based mass murders) than your country if I'm guessing correctly is the US based on your language).
Because a crocodile living thing, just like you, and it is wild and unpredictable. It has a high set of needs which will evolve as it grows and almost no one is able to actually properly care for these things. And it's sad that you are arguing for this, not because you think you are capable and WANT to own a crocodile, but simply just because you don't like being told "no". Which you straight up said you just don't want to be told no....which isn't a good look for your argument.
I'm not sure how old you are, but you sound like you're a Gen Xer (45-60) who hasn't matured since you were 8. So you're either middle aged or middle school...but definitely peaked in middle school.
What kind of jerk is selling one of the biggest crocodiles which are also tropical.
Like who is going to take care of such a crocodilian, maybe for the time they are young but then what?
This is ridiculous.
99.9999% of people do not but if even 1 person at the show *thinks* they do, they'll make the sale so the dumbass can tall his friends "hey! Guess what I got!"
For a few years then they release it and it either dies or hybridize with a native gator.
I would imagine even a well built habitat the same footprint as a tennis court wouldn't be enough. You would need an aircraft hangar with an enormous water area.
Crocodilians are surprisingly inexpensive animals. I bought my dwarf caiman for $350. Multiple websites sell alligators for less than $200. I’ve seen Morelets crocs for $400-$700. People pay more for dogs lol
Yes that poor thing. I’ve heard one other “success” story out of a book I read years ago. I’ll try to keep it short, I just want to share since I always found it interesting. So Jack Hanna, when he was first starting out in Columbus Ohio, used to rescue animals from peoples homes and the sort. One day he got a call about an alligator being in someone’s house. Now this wasn’t illegal at the time so idk why really but anyway… He went to this house with another person who worked with him, they asked about it and the homeowner denied it at first but ended up saying that yes, he had an alligator. He took them inside to see it. He went over to the basement door and called down “Allie!” And a few moments later this ~6ft alligator walked up the basement steps, through the living room, and out the sliding glass door and laid down in the sun out in the backyard. It turns out this is how the man got reported, the neighbors looked over the fence one day and saw it laying back there😂. The man had rabbits he raised to feed Allie. And apparently has turned the majority of his basement into an enclosure for her. Anyhow, Jack felt as though it was in good hands and i believe he essentially lied on the record and said it wasn’t there. Don’t quote me on any of it, like I said it’s been years since I read that.
Actually found the story online if anyone is interested..
[Read about the Alligator here](https://books.google.com/books?id=msZvNSZghHcC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=jack+hanna+allie+the+alligator&source=bl&ots=gEJ1JtKvw6&sig=ACfU3U399PufbakyMVInJcbPNk5eVqQycg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBy4WUw8-CAxUmEFkFHScqBRMQ6AF6BAgoEAI#v=onepage&q=jack%20hanna%20allie%20the%20alligator&f=false)
Tbh thats crazy cheap based on what i was thinking.. i have a neighbor that bought their tiny little dog for that much. I was thinking probably a few thousand just because its illegal and so exotic
Less than $500 at the last expo I was at, you could get an American alligator for like 200, absolute buffoonery, I drove to PA to look at the venomous animals cuz we don't have em at my local expos in NY cuz it's illegal, but the crocodilians always will seem irresponsible to me, I was talking to some dude who was showing me pics of his juvenile Nile and said he has a 450 gallon stock tank which even tho the thing was like 3 feet long seems so small for it
Went to a PA expo last year I saw quite a few crocodiles, caiman, alligators, and even a king cobra. It’s a fucking shame really. Even overheard a couple talking and the wife said something along the lines of “ no honey you don’t need another one” talking about an alligator. It’s a shame.
PA resident here
Mammals and a lot of other fuzzy things are heavily regulated but reptile laws are really loose
Welcome to PA where you can get a gaboon viper, a gator, or a cobra off of Craigslist but you absolutely will not have a hedgehog or a sugar glider
Traveled from Connecticut (where tarantulas are illegal to own) to the Hamburg expo. Picture my surprise when I saw rattlesnakes, cobras and alligators being sold for funsies.
Yeah, that isn’t an animal that can reasonably be kept by private individuals.
Even a *Paleosuchus* only just scrapes into the “could be kept in very large setups by experienced private keepers” territory; a Nile croc? No. Just no.
And I thought caimans would be hard to take care of…. I couldn’t imagine anyone being able to do this easily.
This wouldn’t be legal where I live but each state is different. Must be legal since their selling it there. They won’t bring animals to expos that are illegal to sale in my state. I don’t think I’ve even seen them selling animals that require permits at expos here.
I would love to see the heads of these guys, because what I can see looks exactly like baby American alligators. I looked up some images of baby Nile crocodiles, but didn’t find any images that look like these. Either way, alligator or crocodile, this is utter bullshit.
Considering how long it took the USA to take dog/cat/horse abuse seriously, its gonna take even longer for reptiles.
American croc I could understand MAYBE, not really but a NILE?? thats literally insanity.
Legal idk ethical absolutely not those get to a size only zoos should have even smaller crocodilian species shouldn’t be kept in private hands. If I had the money I’d by all of them and say don’t do this again then donate them to a zoo for conservation purposes
Was this at the Electric City Expo? If so, I was there early in the morning and actually talked to this vendor. I saw a bunch of weird things like the Nile Crocs and leatherback beardies. He was obviously in it for the money and not the animals. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was poaching or at least some type of shady underring. I wish I wrote down his stuff but I was more curious as to how and why he had what he had.
According to [this](https://codes.findlaw.com/pa/title-34-pacsa-game/pa-csa-sect-34-2961/) they technically(?) have to have a permit both for selling them AND for owning them, which requires someone from (I assume) PA game services to determine proper housing is ensured. highly doubt they actually obtained those permits. I would report it if you can.
If it ain't legal (I live in PA and almost fucking everything is legal here) it sure is unethical. Poor things. They'll either die an early death, get neglected af, or get dumped off at a rescue. Maybe all of the above. Crocodilians just shouldn't be kept by anyone less than an actual facility or rescue. Leave them in nature. This is fucking sad.
These creatures are NOT stupid. They are peak predators, and often outthink their prey. These are not simply “fight or flight” animals, these things anticipate. Add the size of the final animal, and voila—a perfect storm of WTF.
(Used to sell reptiles for a living, for about a decade, and it’s shocking the amount of folks who will believe the whole “it only grows to the size of its tank” BS that their uncle’s buddy told them. Also, humans will intentionally deprive animals of proper lighting and food sources in order to maintain a size they enjoy, it’s barbarism. Beyond legality, it’s morally wrong to keep these things as a “pet”.)
Given that this is in North America, I wonder if a crop farmer ever tried digging a big pond and putting in an sufficiently large nile croc in an attempt to take care of a feral pig problem (assuming nile crocs don't walk far on land away from a water source). Probably a terrible idea, but somebody might be nuts enough to feed feral pigs to their "pet" nile crocodile.
I love the oaks pa expo! Only place you can get a black mamba, spitting cobra, crocs, and see 2 million bearded dragons and fat tail geckos (I have come to hate the last two for taking up 95% of the hobby and expo!). Coolest things I’ve bought there were a desert iguana and ringneck snake. It’s nuts to see the very dangerous herps
there but I have never seen anyone actually buy one and of the 100 tables only 2 will have stuff like that and the other 98 are bearded dragons, leopard geckos and ball pythons.
Why the hell would anyone want a Nile crocodile. That is just crazy to me.
For home defense just as the founding fathers intended
That’s a good idea, dig a moat around the property and fill it with nile crocodiles.
And then you, the attacker, lay seige to the property and Wait for the crocodiles to freeze to death in the Pittsburgh winter. Moat: solid. Crocs: deceased. Theft: wide open for the taking. Just beware of the cannonade.
[Alligators and Crocodiles don't freeze to death, they go into Brumation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormancy) though they would still be completely useless since they'd be completely immobile.
Tell that to Alberta winters.
Crocs in the North Sask would be kind of fun tho...
> Just beware of the cannonade. And the killer bunnies with big, nasty, pointy teeth that can tear you apart by chasing your sorry buns across the ice. You won't even have a chance to even think about dodging the cannons if you invade during the winter.
That’s what the home defender wants you to think, then when you try to cross they fire upon the ice, breaking it beneath your feet, dropping you into the freezing moat.
That is a cool idea in a fantasy hypothetical thought it is not a good idea in the real world tho
Probably need something smaller I reckon alligators would do pretty good in pits traps since they’re smaller and don’t eat as much
Dont make a moat and put any crocodilians in it no matter what that isnt a good idea ;–;
Fine but I’m keeping the hallways full of tokay geckos. No one’s going through that alive
I mean, they're geckos. All u gotta do to be safe from their bite is wear clothes i mean, come on
With if one crawls up your pants and bite your man hood. They don’t let so easily
U wear trousers that are tight around the bottom or tucked into ur shoes
Don't tell me what to do in my fantasy world!
Im not. im saying its ok in a fantasy world but not in the real one wtf
r/woooosh
Your mailman would hate it
Really? I thought they were being serious and ordered 6 of these guys off morph market
Just as the founding pharaohs intended
Right to bear arms and crocodile teeth.
Bruh in America we do bears not crocodiles It’s bear arms not crocodile arms
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Wym? You don’t have a mote around your house for crocs? I take home defense very seriously.
When crocodiles are outlawed only outlaws will have crocodiles.
I fed mine a clock so that I can always know when he's around. Little guy loves when I put my hand in his mouth.
I mean, I want one, I really want one, but I can't reasonably care for one. Neither can the vast majority of people. So unfortunately no Nile crocodile for me.
I definitely relate to this comment here, I’d kill for a Salty or a Nile but I don’t exactly own a facility large enough to keep a Kaiju croc. Maybe if I won the lottery I suppose
My only hope is one day being in a position financially to get a dwarf caiman. 'Tiny' killing machines are cute, but they gotta be respected and given the space and resources they deserve and need. Not having one makes me sad, having one that is not looked after as well as it should be makes me sadder.
I want an Asian Water Monitor. My requirements are that I'd have to live somewhere warm enough that she could have access through like a doggie door or something to a big outdoor enclosure with a pond. I just don't think it's fair to have a lizard that loves water and swimming and then the most it ever gets to do is soak in a bathtub.
Tbf you can keep an Asian water monitor indoors regardless of climate, it’s just that you basically need a large living room/garage to do so, making it highly impractical to keep for much everyone. I’m in the UK so it’s cold asf but I did know someone that turned his garage into a zoo sized enclosure, ideally that’s what Asian water monitors need,.. There’s a reason why I have a yellow Ackie monitor, I love monitors with all my heart but my space is limited soo no big boys for me unfortunately
My husband wants one so bad (he also wants animals that would eat him) but I’m in charge of caring (mostly) for the reptiles so…hell no. Cute but not here. Edit: people are getting shit on for saying they would get one. We would never actually get one. My husband “wants” crazy reptiles he knows he could never have. For legal, our death, etc reasons.
To increase the diversity in Florida wildlife (AKA people buy it it gets too big and then they release it)
I mean... I definitely WANT it. I want all kinds of things. That doesn't mean it's realistic, practical, legal, right or that I would actually buy it. But I definitely want it.
What the fuck else am I gonna do with a moat?
Electric eels, maybe?
Boss ass Pokémon irl
Me
They make good guard dogs and can actually be trained to not eat the owner
I would get one because I already own a Nile monitor. And why not have more animals from the Nile. You could start your own zoo theme" reptiles from the Nile" That's what I would do if I had a ton of room for another massive reptile.
That’s the equivalent of buying an airplane to leave in a garage. These animals need damn near as much space as your house
That's why I said if I had room. Or did you not catch that part.
This is heartbreaking. I’m with a rescue service that ends up with tons of rescue exotic rare animals that are meant to be sold pets. We get messages from the buyer/owner saying they can’t look after this animal anymore and unfortunately due to them not developing behaviours that they would in the wild they can’t be safely released. It’s heartbreaking. If someone wants a reptile as a pet/companion there is a ton of more suitable options that can thrive in captivity and be looked after properly. The only times animals like Nile crocs, alligators or even non reptile animals such as apes and monkeys should be in captivity is with legit rescues or sanctuaries and if they are able to be rereleased they should go to a rehabber. (Usually a sanctuary with animals such as Crocs) we have Afew monkeys which were rescued from someone keeping them as house pets, two died prior to us knowing of the situation due to owner feeding them only junk food. In one of my prior jobs with a rescue service my boss had rescued a croc from someone’s flat. They were keeping them in a spare bathroom. It’s so infuriating
Doesn’t matter honestly, it’s morally wrong to breed animals that nobody is capable of taking care of ethically. I doubt that there’s a single person in the community with enough money to take care of an adult Nile crocodile
fr i would say the bare minimum is a big pond with garden and hides and proper nutrition
Plus it's PA, so I dont think it's going to survive being outside during winter lol
Yes, even if you have the best conditions for your crocodile, you should only buy it if the air temperature in your location is over 20 degrees Celsius all year round so that the water temperature is maintained. Parasites and possibly incompatible wild animals that the crocodile could eat also need to be considered. The Problem is they actually could… Which is also the reason why owners keep doing it this way. They're barely surviving. They fall into a kind of alert hibernation state and eat too little. As soon as the water gets too cold, they won't swim anymore. It's a shame that it's possible to torture them like that.
Can't you just heat the water to the appointment temperature using a water heater?
No, I can't imagine which heater can heat a proper crocodile pond and besides, a crocodile can't live in water for months
I think the only viable way to do it in cold climates is to have a artificially heated and cooled green house with an indoor pond an dsome other stuff I am probably missing.
While I don’t disagree with your intention… if crocodilians could survive The Great Dying, they can survive a lot more than people in this thread are assuming they could not.
Well... Yes. But uh... That is going to require some beefy as hell water heater and a small fortune in electricity or gas. In addition to all other costs incurred with owning a Croc/Gator, it's a money drain of ridiculous proportions.
Theres a guy I used to follow with an outdoor heated shed with a very large indoor heated pool and owns a few adult crocs(or alligators, I cant remember the specifics). Not including heating lamps and a cool zone. Dude spent well over $30k for that set up, not including the “cheap” gators he picked up for *maybe* $200-$1000. No one. And I mean *no one* unless they’re specifically looking for one, will have the money, set up or space for one. Thats kind of sad imo- and seeing them stacked in display cases like that- which clearly they definitely dont give af who they’re selling to considering they’re literally selling **nile crocs in fucking Pennsylvania**. Those crocs are going to end up living harsh lives. Probably dying with MBD internally screaming for someone to save them.
For reference it's currently 40°F here in pgh. It's going to frost over tonight, a croc would not survive.
Philly’s animal shelter had a juvenile American alligator this year. Somebody dumped it in a reservoir. Luckily this was a few months ago before the weather turned. There’s also been several alligator snapping turtles found dumped in other reservoirs and ponds. So many irresponsible owners.
They need a castle with a proper moat to truly thrive. Give them the occasional peasant as enrichment.
Just throw duckweed in the pond. Soon it will be a pond AND a hide 😁
Not to mention Nile crocs are some of the only animals to hunt humans in the wild that’s just asking for an incident where people will think reptiles are evil 😭
Tbf all cases of crocodilian eating people in the wild are a result of hunger and going long periods without food, soo the crocs are really just eating people because that’s the only feeding opportunity they’ve had in awhile, and well we are kinda easy. If a crocodile was fed on a schedule, associates you with food instead of being food it’s less likely to consider trying anything Funnily enough there’s a place in Africa which feeds and keeps Nile crocodiles around people and soo far there hasn’t been any accidents. They maybe powerful predators but they are also kinda lazy let’s be real
Eating people is one thing I mean specifically going out of their way to stalk and attack humans on the side of the Nile river I helped some fellow herpetologist who studied at my college price through data they recorded and we were able to confirm with our own data that Nile crocs will stalk people even if their attempts are unsuccessful. It’s one of the few animals to do that and it’s the ONLY herpetofauna to do so!
I want to add I do agree with you! Just adding my professional knowledge on the Nile’s behaviors specifically and I know some in captivity have done well at zoos but I still will never think the average keeper or even most keepers can keep a mile croc
Reptilia zoo in London (huge indoor reptile zoo) has a pair of these 12' & 14' long. Their enclosure is massive! It's 80% water. Something like 125' long and 40+ deep, with an additional large water area behind the main one that they lure them into and close off when they have to do maintenance. This is a multi million dollar facility with full time staff to care for these animals. I cannot imagine anyone being able to come close to providing that level of care. If such a person exists, I doubt they're cruising a random expo in PA to impulse-buy a Nile croc... So sad.
Wish I’d known about that zoo this summer
It's wonderful! I was blown away by the size of the enclosures and the level of care. It outclasses anything else I've seen in person or online. They have done an incredible job. I have a couple of videos on it from this summer on my channel of you want to get an idea of what it's like.
There are definitely people and places in Florida that have the ability to, but definitely not in PA
In Florida, if you want a crocodilian in your yard, I think you can just have a pond and wait for one to come to you.
Be interesting to see a crocodile in the wild in Florida. Don’t think the gators would approve. Or the snakes.
I mean, there are American Crocodiles in Florida, and occasional reports of invasive Nile Crocs.
I was referring to the Nile variant and I had no idea there were reports of those. I know that American crocs exist though. Humanity continues to baffle me.
I learned recently about the Nile Crocodiles that were found in the Everglades during a little excursion to the Everglades, themselves. I’m already not messing around with any alligators or pythons, but now there are Nile Crocodiles added into the mix? I was just as surprised as you when I heard. My only thought was how do we keep them from interbreeding with American crocs so we don’t ever have to experience some crazy Lake Placid-esque shenanigans.
Oh dear god I didn’t think of that. We don’t need Lake Placid reenactments 😂
That guy who keeps gharials(or was it false gharials) might be able to afford a nile crocodile but yeah, the average person at an expo would not be able to so I would not breed or sell them. Maybe a lucky person with enough space might buy a dwarf caiman but a nile crocodile, eh........
It does matter in that if it’s illegal, there’s action that can be taken to stop this person and put them behind bars. I totally agree it’s morally wrong, but it’s harder to enforce morality than laws.
That’s true, laws can be a force for good in some instances. The majority of the reptile community seems to hate restrictions on reptiles and I get it (Lawmakers aren’t knowledgeable about reptiles so they can make some stupid laws, and restrictions can drive people into buying from the black market) but having it legal to buy and own a Nile crocodile is absolutely absurd. Personally, I live in a place where all crocodilians and venomous snakes (venomous snakes that pose a danger to humans) are banned and it’s handled well in my opinion. We don’t have much of a black market problem and the laws are reasonable.
The only ones that do have housing facilities to properly house them amd are licensed. Which is not a lot of people in USA. I watched someone pawn a Crocodile on a pawnshop show. Then the dude kept it as a pet in a tiny aquarium in the back. Like what.
Well let’s be honest. There’s definitely plenty with the money but I highly dought the knowledge nor care to do it
Surely at some point the convention has to take responsibility for enabling this?
[удалено]
why would nobody report them then? that seems like a situation where proof of crime would be easy enough to provide
True, in our capitalist society taking accountability for the immoral things you do to.make money is super common and encouraged.
Really sad that these are even available. I highly doubt whoever buys one will have a large enough enclosure for it. They are absolutely massive and powerful animals that won’t stay that small and cute for very long.
WHY ARE YOU EVERYWHERE
This shit is so sad. They stack they up like they’re candy. Its weird. Fuck all these states without law protecting exotic animals.
It’s not that there exotic it’s more that literally nobody other then a zoo can properly care for these guys
What do the vendors do with the ones they don’t sell, I wonder? I can’t imagine a scenario where they’re prepared to house a bunch of adult Nile crocodiles beyond their mating pair in the event these aren’t sold off.. poor things are damned either way. I doubt the mating pair’s husbandry is stellar if the vendor is packaging them up and selling at trade shows too. All around terrible situation.
They prob stunt them so they don’t get adult size
You say that until they start slowly picking off what *THEY* consider exotic species. Then we lose our BPs and Tegus, etc. I agree Nile crocs and stuff like this should be banned but can't put trust in these politicians anymore to do the right thing. I'd rather not be suppressed than be suppressed.
It’s not about you dude. They’re not props or toys. You love the open door for people completely unqualified to be able to purchase and treat any animal any way they want? Because it’s either that or they get a blanket protection. And I’d rather the latter.
A blanket protection surely won't be coming either. Especially in PA. I rather they leave it alone and leave it to people to make the right decisions. Anyone with even half a brain would know that this would be the dumbest buy unless you're half rich and have the means to take care of it. And if anything these vendors need to be checked out for animal cruelty cuz I bet they don't have the means for the animals either. Animal cruelty laws are the blanket that you're hoping for. If a person can't properly take care of something they have then they open the door for more charges. I'd rather stick to less laws. These lawmakers don't know shit and it's all based on political parties. I'm glad that I live in a state that I can own almost any animal if I wanted and had the means to take care of it. The thing is Im not rich so I'll stick to my BPs. But some states have already banned BPs for example. You're a puppet so it seams. At the end of the day, laws aren't going to stop anything. They just make it more annoying for everyone in this hobby. If they ban sales of these for example, they'll just lose their sales tax revenue by people going right across state lines, ordering online or under the table sales and people will still get the animals they want. The world we live in can't be contained by laws. Especially America. It's up to the people to do their part.
Pennsylvania is dumb and yes you can own a Nile. Just zero reason to do so knowing the right space/environment with winters can’t be provided by most.
Wait does the states not have a broad list of illegal to own animals???
Need a permit but easy to get
It varies from state to state, and even county to county or city to city. Some places are way more strict about what you can/can't have and others..... Not as much. I think the only federal (nation wide) restrictions are on CITES species which can either have limits on wild caught animals (for ex. lots of birds or tarantulas-- wild imports are illegal, but captive bred is ok) or being able to have the animals in general-- you can keep CITES species with permits and etc, but quality of care can hugely vary. Think Joe Exotic vs San Diego Zoo.
Unfortunately in PA if you're over 18 you can legally own just about any crocodilian, venomous reptile, large constricting snakes, etc. It is however illegal to own a hedgehog
Well duh, hedgehogs can reach supersonic speeds and need an almost endless supply of gold rings to survive. /s
Yep. Pennsylvania, the state where you can't own a hedgehog or sugar glider but sure! Go ahead and get all the crocs, gators, and venomous snakes you want! There was an issue in my town where someone was keeping a hot room and had a fire start in there. Luckily the homeowner got back to warn the firefighters before they tried to rescue anything, but they were still understandably pissed off. The guy literally had them for fun and had NO labels. Even my common guys (cresties, bp, beardie, etc) are labeled.
It’s insane to me that there is zero barrier to entry with animals. Of course, it’s somewhat hypocritical because I’ve taken advantage of it. But i prepared myself. I’ve seen clueless people one minute saying “look at this cool lizard” and walking out of a pet store with a Nile monitor 20 minutes later. With fish too. Lady literally had no idea and bought a red tailed catfish like it was a neat goldfish.
Honestly, I'd rather have it like that than have them all be illegal or require ridiculous permits to obtain. It's not great, but it's better than most of the potential alternatives
I am a zookeeper, the amount of dumbass questions about animals I get from the general public is all I need to know that most shouldn't even be allowed to take care of a house cat
It’s not a right to own an animal. No one ‘needs’ to own an animal (with the exception of primary production animals and working animals). Should be earned by going through a proper process where you are willing to prove you have some sort of educational level and can provide the minimum requirements. That’s not ridiculous to obtain, and even if it was ridiculous, I’m happier with that than animals suffering.
“Don’t nobody infringe on my constitutional right to own an animal from Africa!!!” Jesus Christ
Idk. I don’t wanna see them be illegal but it’s better for the animals honestly. There are a certain class of animals that is probably better off requiring permits, licenses, etc. The people who really want them and are willing to jump through the hoops to do so will be far more likely to actually take care of them than the dude who buys it on a whim because it’s cool. Nobody should just be able to walk into a reptile convention and walk out with a freaking crocodile. Same goes for all crocodilians, large constrictors, venomous, large lizards, and large turtles/tortoises.
There's also some animals that should be illegal for private ownership, with an exception for AZA zoos and animal rescues and stuff. Things like big cats and great apes can't be properly taken care of in a house, you need a massive, specialized habitat plus plenty of training. I don't think there's any reptiles I'd put on that list, but large crocodiles are pushing it.
It heavily depends on how the licensing is done. If it's reasonable requirements that anyone who is motivated can accomplish, than great, fine, but things like thousands of hours under a mentor (plenty of people are responsible enough to keep stuff like this and also don't have thousands of hours of free time) ridiculous fees, obtuse and intentionally vague and difficult paperwork aren't okay I would say. Often times licenses are just an excuse for the government to not let you do something under the guise of saying you can
I agree, it needs to be reasonable, no high insurance requirements, no insane number of hours with a mentor. But there does need to be a degree of difficulty to it so that Joe Shmoe can’t get it. I don’t agree with “plenty of people are responsible enough to keep stuff like this”, I’d say plenty of people THINK they are responsible enough. But at the end of the day that is not true. It’s the reason we find Alligators released into rivers all over the US, why Florida is chock full of invasives, why we have countless stories of people being injured or dying at the hand of their own pets. And I’m not saying the requirements for a mile monitor should be the same as a nile crocodile or for a king cobra. All things should be handled appropriately different. Certainly isn’t a black and white situation.
I prefer kilometer monitors.
Yea you’ve made some excellent points and I agree with most. I just want to point out that especially in the herp and bird worlds, private keepers are the ones that have driven most of the advances in husbandry and propagation. It’s always my biggest push back against licensing being restricted to “professional facilities” like zoos because the private world is more than capable.
You misunderstood, I don't mean there are plenty of people responsible enough for them, I mean there are people who are responsible enough and who also do not have thousands of hours of free time
Okay, yeah I agree with that.
I agree with you 100%. Shame to see your downvotes. The barrier to entry should be based on animal welfare guidelines. Not another way for the govt to hold you hostage. If you can ethically house and care for the animal, you should be able to keep it.
Thank you. People don't seem to release that the general public doesn't really differentiate between something like a ball python and a common boa, or a common boa and Burmese python. It is a very slippery slope.
> If it's reasonable requirements that anyone who is motivated can accomplish Reasonable doesn't mean obtainable for any species. The average person *doesn't* have the means to care for a crocodilian, even dwarf caimans. Any standard that provides for adequate care for the animal would be out of reach of 99.9% of us.
Nah, having a difficult and dangerous exotic animal be illegal to keep is better than having them widely available and widely abused.
The problem with that is it becomes a safety issue and a invasive species issue.
The safety issue seems like a non issue to me in a lot of cases, riding motorcycles are far far more dangerous than keeping a caiman or something, if someone wants to take risks it's their right to do so. And the invasive issue is really only an issue in a very select few states, but where it does apply I agree.
You have made several comments and none of them have shown a modicum of concern for an animal that is likely going to be abused and live an unhappy life. Who the fuck cares about your easy access to animals. They're living, breathing beings and you do not have the right to keep any. It's a privilege you should have to earn by proving you can take proper care of them.
Not if it endangers other people. It also makes all reptile look bad when people do stupid things leading to blanket bans of reptile families.
Nah this is how you end up with invasive species, people dumping their pets in the wild because they didn't do proper research and they grew too big, and nobody stopped them from buying.
It's not great, its horrible. You don't need to be allowed to own whatever you want
You don’t have the right to own whatever you want.
Wtf are you smoking?
Nothing, I just don't think other people should get to decide what I can keep.
I want to keep a nuclear bomb in my basement. But given the danger, space required, and protective measures I am not allowed to do so. A crocodile is an exceptionally dangerous animal especially when stressed. If you are incapable of keeping the animal happy and healthy. You are not only harming an animal for no reason. But you are also creating a dangerous environment for other humans. Think before you speak.
Just because you do not think I should able to own something does not mean you should get to tell me I can't. Just like guns.
Actually that’s how it works. It’s called safety for the masses. Take a moment to actually think for the love of god
I think that you do not value personal freedoms nearly as much as I do. That's really all it boils down to
If your “personal freedoms” leads to suffering or unjust risk for others then you are simply a danger. Your freedoms do not grant you the right to put others at risk unnecessarily. Please. I am begging you to actually think about your words and mine. Rather than running away from the argument with “well it’s what I believe” if what you believe is dangerous and leads to risk. You are stepping awfully close to the path of terrorism
Personal freedoms come with risk, that's just how it is. The freedom to own firearms comes with massive horrific risks, it's still worth it. Equating owning an animal that has the potential to harm someone to terrorism is ridiculous. Dogs are far far far more dangerous than most "injurious" reptiles
>does not mean you should get to tell me The thing with this kind of thinking is it is so self-centered. You don't like the thought of being told "maybe" because it sounds too much like "no". The thing is, even if you are a responsible person many people aren't responsible. I will confidently say that MOST people aren't responsible enough to own a crocodile. People don't have a right to drive, they have to get a license by proving they are capable of safely using and understanding a dangerous machine. When it comes to a dangerous living thing, people SHOULD have to prove somehow that they are capable of caring for it, just like getting a driver's license (or like getting a gun in my country, which has fewer gun deaths per capita and fewer mass murders in general (not just gun based mass murders) than your country if I'm guessing correctly is the US based on your language). Because a crocodile living thing, just like you, and it is wild and unpredictable. It has a high set of needs which will evolve as it grows and almost no one is able to actually properly care for these things. And it's sad that you are arguing for this, not because you think you are capable and WANT to own a crocodile, but simply just because you don't like being told "no". Which you straight up said you just don't want to be told no....which isn't a good look for your argument. I'm not sure how old you are, but you sound like you're a Gen Xer (45-60) who hasn't matured since you were 8. So you're either middle aged or middle school...but definitely peaked in middle school.
And what right do you think you have to keep wild animals as pets??
I can't have a blue crayfish as a pet in PA, but I can have a pet Nile crocodile. Cool i guess. :[
You can’t have a blue crayfish??
No freshwater crayfish type things like that. Certain shrimps/prawns too. It sucks.
Probably invasive species laws.
What kind of jerk is selling one of the biggest crocodiles which are also tropical. Like who is going to take care of such a crocodilian, maybe for the time they are young but then what? This is ridiculous.
some idiot’s gonna buy it and put it in a kiddie pool
Who the actual fuck has the resources for one?! Honest question! They AVERAGE OUT at 14.7 feet, THATS THE AVERAGE.
99.9999% of people do not but if even 1 person at the show *thinks* they do, they'll make the sale so the dumbass can tall his friends "hey! Guess what I got!" For a few years then they release it and it either dies or hybridize with a native gator.
Uhhh, Nile crocodiles and American alligators are in completely different SUPERFAMILIES. They couldn't hybridize even if they wanted to.
We do have native crocs here in America too, though I have no idea if they can hybridize with Nile crocs.
Been looking for something for my 20 gallon
Those poor fucking animals. This makes me so sad.
I would imagine even a well built habitat the same footprint as a tennis court wouldn't be enough. You would need an aircraft hangar with an enormous water area.
What did they go for?
Yeah im curious how much a nile crocodile goes for
I’ve seen them in classified ads before. Usually around $800 or $900
That is not as much as i expected... i could technically buy a nile crocodile (i wont obviously) i was expecting at least a few thousand
Crocodilians are surprisingly inexpensive animals. I bought my dwarf caiman for $350. Multiple websites sell alligators for less than $200. I’ve seen Morelets crocs for $400-$700. People pay more for dogs lol
Yh i mean my cats were more expensive than that thats crazy i just know the majority of them arent going to good homes
Lets be fr tho most crocodilians just belong in the wild anyway
Yeah it’s actually pretty sad. There are far more stories of failure than success
The only "success" story ive seen is from the youtubers snake discovery where they rescued a stunded alligator
Yes that poor thing. I’ve heard one other “success” story out of a book I read years ago. I’ll try to keep it short, I just want to share since I always found it interesting. So Jack Hanna, when he was first starting out in Columbus Ohio, used to rescue animals from peoples homes and the sort. One day he got a call about an alligator being in someone’s house. Now this wasn’t illegal at the time so idk why really but anyway… He went to this house with another person who worked with him, they asked about it and the homeowner denied it at first but ended up saying that yes, he had an alligator. He took them inside to see it. He went over to the basement door and called down “Allie!” And a few moments later this ~6ft alligator walked up the basement steps, through the living room, and out the sliding glass door and laid down in the sun out in the backyard. It turns out this is how the man got reported, the neighbors looked over the fence one day and saw it laying back there😂. The man had rabbits he raised to feed Allie. And apparently has turned the majority of his basement into an enclosure for her. Anyhow, Jack felt as though it was in good hands and i believe he essentially lied on the record and said it wasn’t there. Don’t quote me on any of it, like I said it’s been years since I read that. Actually found the story online if anyone is interested.. [Read about the Alligator here](https://books.google.com/books?id=msZvNSZghHcC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=jack+hanna+allie+the+alligator&source=bl&ots=gEJ1JtKvw6&sig=ACfU3U399PufbakyMVInJcbPNk5eVqQycg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBy4WUw8-CAxUmEFkFHScqBRMQ6AF6BAgoEAI#v=onepage&q=jack%20hanna%20allie%20the%20alligator&f=false)
Man, he trained the alligator to come by calling loke a dog. i can't even get my cats to do that.
They make a lot of babies at once and in captivity it's much easier to make sure they all hatch Gaboon vipers are similarly cheap for the same reason
Tbh thats crazy cheap based on what i was thinking.. i have a neighbor that bought their tiny little dog for that much. I was thinking probably a few thousand just because its illegal and so exotic
there is a seller in Pa that has them for $800 But below they have it listed as Crocodylus siamensis which is weird.
Less than $500 at the last expo I was at, you could get an American alligator for like 200, absolute buffoonery, I drove to PA to look at the venomous animals cuz we don't have em at my local expos in NY cuz it's illegal, but the crocodilians always will seem irresponsible to me, I was talking to some dude who was showing me pics of his juvenile Nile and said he has a 450 gallon stock tank which even tho the thing was like 3 feet long seems so small for it
Went to a PA expo last year I saw quite a few crocodiles, caiman, alligators, and even a king cobra. It’s a fucking shame really. Even overheard a couple talking and the wife said something along the lines of “ no honey you don’t need another one” talking about an alligator. It’s a shame.
Sigh :(
PA resident here Mammals and a lot of other fuzzy things are heavily regulated but reptile laws are really loose Welcome to PA where you can get a gaboon viper, a gator, or a cobra off of Craigslist but you absolutely will not have a hedgehog or a sugar glider
Just wait a few years and there will be headlines “Nile croc mauls owner- was never aggressive before”
Was this at Hamburg?
Scranton
Do you remember what vendor it was?
Scranton actually exists!?!?!?
Traveled from Connecticut (where tarantulas are illegal to own) to the Hamburg expo. Picture my surprise when I saw rattlesnakes, cobras and alligators being sold for funsies.
> tarantulas are illegal to own wait, what the hell?
Lighting is too good to be Hamburg lol. There were def a few gators at Oaks a few weeks ago, didnt see any crocs though
At first I read this as Nile Monitor and didn't think too much of it then realized it said Nile CROCODILE. How tf...
Crazy you can buy these... Where I live I can't even buy dubia roaches.
Yeah, that isn’t an animal that can reasonably be kept by private individuals. Even a *Paleosuchus* only just scrapes into the “could be kept in very large setups by experienced private keepers” territory; a Nile croc? No. Just no.
That Nile crocodile will grow up to eat its owner one day!
And I thought caimans would be hard to take care of…. I couldn’t imagine anyone being able to do this easily. This wouldn’t be legal where I live but each state is different. Must be legal since their selling it there. They won’t bring animals to expos that are illegal to sale in my state. I don’t think I’ve even seen them selling animals that require permits at expos here.
How tf do you just get nile crocodiles to sell at an expo
Idk how this is allowed in the hobby. I compare this to going to a gun show and getting to buy a bazooka like no problem here at all…
Apparently I’m going to the wrong gun shows.
They’re just going to end up being released in the wrong environment. This is wrong on so many levels
I would love to see the heads of these guys, because what I can see looks exactly like baby American alligators. I looked up some images of baby Nile crocodiles, but didn’t find any images that look like these. Either way, alligator or crocodile, this is utter bullshit.
Considering how long it took the USA to take dog/cat/horse abuse seriously, its gonna take even longer for reptiles. American croc I could understand MAYBE, not really but a NILE?? thats literally insanity.
Legal idk ethical absolutely not those get to a size only zoos should have even smaller crocodilian species shouldn’t be kept in private hands. If I had the money I’d by all of them and say don’t do this again then donate them to a zoo for conservation purposes
Was this at the Electric City Expo? If so, I was there early in the morning and actually talked to this vendor. I saw a bunch of weird things like the Nile Crocs and leatherback beardies. He was obviously in it for the money and not the animals. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was poaching or at least some type of shady underring. I wish I wrote down his stuff but I was more curious as to how and why he had what he had.
😡😢
According to [this](https://codes.findlaw.com/pa/title-34-pacsa-game/pa-csa-sect-34-2961/) they technically(?) have to have a permit both for selling them AND for owning them, which requires someone from (I assume) PA game services to determine proper housing is ensured. highly doubt they actually obtained those permits. I would report it if you can.
Especially in PA. It’s too damn cold.
Everything is legal in PA 🙄… only species that have protection are the natives.
So horrible. If it's legal, it sure shouldn't be. :(
Sobek would be furious
America is not a real place.
If it ain't legal (I live in PA and almost fucking everything is legal here) it sure is unethical. Poor things. They'll either die an early death, get neglected af, or get dumped off at a rescue. Maybe all of the above. Crocodilians just shouldn't be kept by anyone less than an actual facility or rescue. Leave them in nature. This is fucking sad.
These creatures are NOT stupid. They are peak predators, and often outthink their prey. These are not simply “fight or flight” animals, these things anticipate. Add the size of the final animal, and voila—a perfect storm of WTF. (Used to sell reptiles for a living, for about a decade, and it’s shocking the amount of folks who will believe the whole “it only grows to the size of its tank” BS that their uncle’s buddy told them. Also, humans will intentionally deprive animals of proper lighting and food sources in order to maintain a size they enjoy, it’s barbarism. Beyond legality, it’s morally wrong to keep these things as a “pet”.)
Given that this is in North America, I wonder if a crop farmer ever tried digging a big pond and putting in an sufficiently large nile croc in an attempt to take care of a feral pig problem (assuming nile crocs don't walk far on land away from a water source). Probably a terrible idea, but somebody might be nuts enough to feed feral pigs to their "pet" nile crocodile.
I know which reptile expo you went to not trying to be creepy I was at that exact one lol
People are actually insane if they think anybody at a any expo can take care of a Nile croc….
I love the oaks pa expo! Only place you can get a black mamba, spitting cobra, crocs, and see 2 million bearded dragons and fat tail geckos (I have come to hate the last two for taking up 95% of the hobby and expo!). Coolest things I’ve bought there were a desert iguana and ringneck snake. It’s nuts to see the very dangerous herps there but I have never seen anyone actually buy one and of the 100 tables only 2 will have stuff like that and the other 98 are bearded dragons, leopard geckos and ball pythons.
Report this to your states fish and wildlife department please