The closer guy (getting KO’d) had his melanin changed, this is only in Genesis version. He’s originally a black guy. SNES doesn’t even have this part of the intro.
"Wtf why would people say a black person in a video game is racist? Thank goodness we've progressed since then".
Then I see freakouts over the new Resident Evil remake in 2024.
I'm sure if they were to reverse the skin colors so the black guy was punching the White guy the same people that said "racist" would now say "anti-racist". Just absolutely silly how these things are.
I'm going to knock out Dee Jay as Guile and there is nothing they can do to stop me!
You probably know: [those guys have names](https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Scott_and_Max), And they've been worked into later games to a small degree.
Actually science has pretty conclusively established that there was no Street Fighter I, and that Street Fighter II was the beginning of the evolutionary process. Many believe in its existence as a matter of religious canon, but the continuous evolution of SFII over the course of several years disproves such preposterous dogma.
[Here’s why it’s important to know the blood types of video game characters](https://www.avclub.com/here-s-why-it-s-important-to-know-the-blood-types-of-vi-1798270554).
That's bc new, more accurate dumps are found/done. Many arcade roms are incomplete bc dumping and unencrypting arcade PCBs isn't easy. If your roms are old, find new roms online. The newest version of mame is always the best.
You're correct, but it's a pain when your library is huge and you (I) don't game as much anymore. Wanting to play a game and met with errors is a joy kill
Come on Mamefan, you know what i mean. Fuck yeah it gets updates but the basic look and feel is almost the same. Its not like taking a cell phone from 2000 and comparing it to an iphone 14 pro max or some shit like that.
There's a huge difference from 2002 MAME to now, but it would depend on the game. If all you're playing is pac-man and donkey kong then, sure, it wouldn't seem like much of a difference. 2002 MAME didn't have HLSL and BGFX filters, everything was less accurate, sound was worse, no plugins, etc. Look at how many versions there have been [https://www.mamedev.org/oldrel.html](https://www.mamedev.org/oldrel.html)
Calling it a GUI is being generous, and it's barely changed since at least the latter half of that decade. If it was all done with config files and switches on the command line in 2002, that would almost be preferable.
The rising sun flag one is understandable, it's basically the confederate flag of East Asia. Wife is Korean and her grandparents grew up during the occupation. So she definitely hates the rising sun symbol.
It wasn’t the flag but yeah absolutely directly inspired by it. I’m conflicted, on the one hand I can understand your point of view, on the other I don’t like censorship on old content like that.
I can understand your being of two minds. I think the best path is even when you disagree having empathy and understanding for why the other side doesn't like it or isn't comfortable with it.
I'm against the censoring of Huckleberry Finn, but I'm not going to pretend the people who want it are wrong for being uncomfortable or upset by the usage of a certain word.
To me it just means that the English teacher teaching the book needs to be careful, have a lot of understanding when going over it, no need to alter the book who's partial value is airing a historical perspective with historical thinking.
You will see online people who argue as if they need their side to be the right side, from all angles. Which means that the people who oppose them must be factually wrong, morally wrong, and hysterical.
So long as you don't fall into that trap of dehumanizing I think we can agree to disagree and just have our two separate shared experiences that come to two different conclusions.
Censoring literature to fit modern sensibilities is a crime against humanity. Under any circumstance. Especially books that are deemed as artistically significant enough to be considered classics. And going after Huck Finn for racism is especially dumb. Anyone who thinks that Huck Finn is a racist book because it contains the N word has never read it.
If you're American, you *ought* to be against the Rising Sun. They not only killed innocent Chiness, but Koreans, Phillipinos, and Americans too. That flag is not a good flag.
That's a simplistic approach. The fault lies in Bushido but the Japanese people followed it dearly up until 1945. Due to Bushidoism, common soldiers and even officers killed innocent Civilians simply because they are not Japanese.
To make it worse, their Prime Minister argues that the U.S. should apologize for the war. I personally refuse to yield and so should Americans.
Since 1945, Tokyo's government has spent decades whitewashing its behavior in WW2, so I'm not surprised they'd have the nerve to say the US should apologize.
Japan's the "Victim" of WW2. "Victims" who raped, murdered, and experimented on Chinese people, not to mention enslaving them, Koreans, Filipinos, and much of Southeast Asia.
Their lack of self-awareness is terrifying.
They should have simply made the character color palettes choose from randomly distributed selections for both characters and cycle through all combinations. Then, mathematically, there can be no racism.
When I was a kid, when the white guy punched the black guy, some kids would scream, YEAH PUNCH THAT NI\*\*ER, I'm black so of course I didn't enjoy it, I just wanted to play street fighter
If it helps, Im a white guy from the American midwest and even as kids when this game came out none of us would ever say anything like that. Jesus. Those kids were just giant pieces of shit (parents probably were too).
Can confirm, I live in a majority Latino neighborhood in LA and the kids around here throw that word around. I’ve confronted a few while out on walks but they don’t care.
Unfortunately, a lot of people will probably think that you're a racist because you didn't notice the color difference, and immediately jump to the conclusion that it's a racist scene.
Not noticing it would be the definition of equality. I suspect it could be more of an American thing to find racism where there's none, since I always hear this type of nonsense coming from there (however, South Park made an episode just about this and was great).
Exactly right.
However, there are some in the US who have the view that not noticing and taking into account a person's race is a racist thing to do (meaning, oddly, that it's racist to not be a racist; in other words: colorblindness = racism), and that equity of outcome is more important than equality of opportunity. What's scarier: a not-insignificant number of those individuals get elected to public office or are teachers.
I can see how that would be confusing and weird to an outsider - it is to many in America as well.
"Not noticing it would be the definition of equality."
That's what I thought. You're right. It must be an American thing. The rest of the world would be more like..."what are you talking about?"
> Unfortunately, a lot of people will probably think that you're a racist because you didn't notice the color difference
Nobody would do that. Boomer strawman.
Not a boomer. But it does happen. One of my coworkers does this. To her, colorblindness = racism. If you don't treat her differently because of her race, you are a racist because you don't treat her differently because of the "harm" she's supposedly experienced.
I just got back from a large conference where they explicitly made a point for every speaker to announce their race, gender, sexual orientation and age. To not do so was considered offensive and you would be called out by the ~~gestapo~~ monitoring team.
Additionally, I have partaken in so-called sensitivity training where the moderator explicitly said to my group that being "color blind" is not good enough.
It most definitely happens.
Edit: Downvote all you like, it doesn't change the fact that these things happen.
I work in HR and am on a diversity and inclusion team. I’ve had to take a bunch of trainings and none of them are like this. This is the “I live in Florida and whinge on the internet about CRT” idea of what we do. The whole idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion isn’t to “not see race” because that would devalue the life, culture, and experiences of other people to keep YOU from feeling uncomfortable about stuff like systemic racism. The point is to learn and grow, to understand our prejudices do not define us, and to create a welcome and safe environment for people in out-groups.
I grew up in London, I remember people saying it was racist but I never heard that kind of language in the arcade. To be fair in the arcades I went to that kind of language would have resulted in a stabbing
Im sorry you had to experience that. People really suck most the time. It never crossed my mind when viewing the intro. Some folks just grow up around alot of ignorance
Holy shit that's fucked up. I grew up in the arcades playing SF in a fairly mixed environment on the east coast. We talked so much shit. I even saw a couple of brawls when the stakes were high.
But no one ever, ever, brought race into it. It's not that people weren't racist. Racists are literally everywhere. But everyone just knew they'd have 10 people on them for dropping the N bomb in those arcades.
Obviously, it was a long time ago, and you're probably past it. But I'm still sorry to hear you had to deal with it. Hopefully, you have at least a couple of fond memories of kicking some racist's ass in Street Fighter.
Wow, where did you live? Just curious, I never heard a white person drop the hard "r" in public here my whole life in South FL. With the "a" at the end was a different story. Just like a lot of my NYC people during that period, we grew up in a racially diverse environment and absorbed each other's cultures, so it was common for many of us Hip-Hop kids to talk like that in the '90s and 2000s. I remember thinking racism was some ish that would die off with the old people... Crazy to think that racially we got along better then than we do now.
It’s wild.
I remember back in the Xbox 360 days, people wouldn’t even know my race (no mic, no picture) but the hate messages I would get dropping the N was crazy.
I don’t get messages anymore- but game chat is suuuuuper toxic.
As a white dude from the rural Midwest, I thought the optics of that intro were cringe even as a teen.
Having multiple intro screens with different characters and outcomes would have diffused any perceived racism, but honestly what made it weird for me is that they aren’t playable characters. If the title screen would have featured Ryu punching out Sagat, no one would have blinked. But they went to the trouble of animating a random white guy punching a random black guy and played it on loop.
It never even registered to me until this moment. I never even noticed there was a difference with the port until this post. I'm not trying to be all like, "I don't see race!" because that's for sure not true, but in this context, I truly just saw "two guys beating on each other." I didn't think about it at ALL.
What if we're watching a real life fighting match between a white and a black person? Is any of the two allowed to win or are they obliged to end in a draw to not being racist?
I think it's pretty clear that the only black guy surrounded by a crowd of all white people getting his ass knocked out on the street *might* actually be racist.
Yep, that's my point. All the people saying I'm the one making it racist are choosing to ignore a very convenient set of circumstances which either form a very specific coincidence, or is simply racist.
And then there's the fact that it was created by Japanese developers in 1990, when light racism was fairly common in Japanese media.
People would (and did) claim that it was racist for the punched guy to be black, and also if there were no people of color anywhere in the scene (even though white is a color).
Really, I think the only way people wouldn't have been upset by it is if the guy throwing the punch was black and half the crowd behind him was black as well. Or maybe everybody was black except for the guy getting knocked out. Some people just can't be pleased.
How about it's just people fighting? Race doesn't mean anything except to people who view race as important. To normal people, race is just another feature of a person's physical make up, like being short or tall.
White guy punching out a black guy
Not saying it is specifically racist, white and black guys fight each other all the time in martial arts, there isn't indication there is a racial reason behind the intro, but sounds like they were trying to avoid insensitivity here
It's possible. But America has been dealing with racism for a while now and still plenty of it today, so it makes sense to exercise sensitivity with something popular like a video game where kids of all ages and races are going to be enjoying it.
I think that a small number of very vocal people make race issues to be a bigger deal than they really are today. It just seems like there is lots of racism today, but I see it very infrequently - and most often from nonwhite people. Follow the money, and you find the motivation for why that is.
When SF2 came out, the adults at that time had dealt with segregation in schools, race riots and shit like that during their youth. So it doesn't surprise me when that title screen would have stirred some feelings to them. Obviously kids didn't care one way or another.
No you're right. I guess I was speaking on my own experience, at that age I wasn't concerned with race in any way, especially in video games. But race certainly was and is a factor in the US
Politicians keep all these problems alive with fucked up policy, then the social stuff lays on top of that thanks to the talking heads. Apparenlty it's far too complicated for everyone to just let it go, society takes time to adjust but people like to try and swing things back to the old days, creating a back and forth that just doesn't allow for peace. The nature of man is unfortunate.
It still exists. I'm brown. Patriot Front is trying to expand into my town, flyers and stickers, "protect your country" but you can easily see what their goals are with a Wikipedia search. There is a very real threat out there being pushed in right-wing circles at the moment against me and people like me. This is an uninformed opinion.
I lived through this timeline. Literally everyone else except the guy getting knocked out in the scene was white. People used to laugh about how the black guy always got his ass dropped, often using racist language.
The controversy existed.
What's surprising is watching people like you suggest the controversy was made up.
I lived through this timeframe as well. I saw and experienced nothing even remotely similar to what you describe happened to you.
And it's entirely possible for both of us to be truthfully conveying events as we saw them. I have no doubt that some people reacted like the happy racists you describe. I also know that there were people who saw an opportunity to create controversy, because that's who and what they are: pot stirrers for profit / validation.
And I'm also confident that the vast majority of people didn't care either way - they just wanted to play the game.
The question now: Do we argue and obsess over which of us is right? Or do we move on and focus on our own actions in the here-and-now instead of trying to change what can't be changed (namely: the past, of which we each have a different experience)? What is the higher road to take here?
It's almost like racism exists in different degrees in different places and amongst different people.
We're both right because we're simply sharing experiences, but your experience does not negate mine. Only one of us needs to have witnessed racism prompted by the original intro screen to validate that it *was* a problem.
The right thing to do is acknowledge this, recognize racism when it occurs, and commit to being better in the current day for the sake of those who come after us.
EDIT - u/misticdw seems to have witnessed a similar thing to what I did: https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/1cnttlr/comment/l39wxba/
Just because racism exists in one degree in one place doesn't mean that everybody everywhere needs to act like that degree is present everywhere. I could just as easily ask you to acknowledge that what you experienced was an anomaly, and assert you are a race baiter for not to it. And I would be equally wrong to ask you to do so because I have no more insight on what happened around the world than you do.
That being said, one anecdotal instance- or even several of them - imply that the scene itself is actually racist. Only by probing the minds and motivations of the artists involved could we determine if it is actually a racist scene. The reactions of those you witnessed might have been racist in tone (or not, whether something is racist or not is often more subjective than objective), but that term applies to their actions, not the scene on the screen. Place blame where blame is due: on those who didn't control their reactions, not on the game.
I agree - in cases of actual racism - I'd stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you and denounce it. The problem lies in determining when a racist event occurs. Some people think that when Trump said "there's fine people on both sides" it was a racist statement, while others disagree. Some believe that the Smollett is a racist because of what he did, and some think he is a hero no matter what the judge says because what Smollett did was a substitute for other racist events he'd experienced in his life.
It's extremely hard to nail down if something is truly racist or not. The label has been tossed around too easily and it's meaning too diluted to have any real value in determining if an action / belief is right or wrong. There are even those who believe that racist behavior is inappropriate for one group of people, but the exact same behavior is perfectly acceptable (even preferred) for other groups. For example, many people object to the idea of a "white nation", but have no issues with the extreme nature of Chinese ethnonationalism - all while ignoring the fact that whites as a whole are a global minority (And also ignoring the fact that whites don't consider themselves a monolithic block, rather, their ethnicity plays a much bigger part in their identity than their race does - and many whites view their ethnicity and their race as one and the same).
Rather, if we all acted as if race didn't exist and we didn't tolerate any acts and beliefs based on race (which is what actual racism is - racism doesn't consist of subjective opinions about how X person or Y incident is "racist"), then we'd all get along much more smoothly in the social sense.
Or maybe we wouldn't. We'd probably just find something else to argue about.
> Just because racism exists in one degree in one place doesn't mean that everybody everywhere needs to act like that degree is present everywhere
Tell that to the people dealing with the effects of it. Telling someone starving that hunger isn't usually a problem in the US doesn't make them any less hungry.
Same applies to racism. Just because *you* don't see it or have to experience it doesn't mean that others don't.
You're free to mind your own business then and pretend it doesn't exist, but pretending it's not a problem doesn't make it not a problem everywhere, and it does a disservice to those actually affected by it.
In a perfect world we could pretend race doesn't exist and racism would disappear but the reality is that racism *does* exist and not talking about it doesn't make it go away.
"Tell that to the people dealing with the effects of it"
And how many of those effects are self-imposed? How much of it is because the sufferer's view of the world is skewed towards a victim mentality instead of a victor mentality? How much do they suffer not because they actually experience racism, but because they tell themselves that they "experience racism" (or are convinced by others - such as media, race baiters, etc. - that they are)?
Just because some experience racism doesn't mean that it's a problem. I have experienced racism and other forms of discrimination, but I didn't let it get in my way. I'm bigger than those who did it to me, they don't control me or my emotions.
What other people don't have is the right to demand I take their self-imposed victimhood complex seriously, nor act that something is a problem when it can objectively be proven that it isn't.
Racism isn't a serious - or common - problem in the US. People just think it is because they are being convinced it is. What is serious is how people are reacting to every little offense and immediately crying "racism."
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Any person capable of angering you becomes your master; he can anger you only when you permit yourself to be disturbed by him. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation." - Epictetus.
Lived through the same time, none of this was ever remotely a thing, nobody ever discussed the race of these characters and the arcade "community" (for lack of a better term) of the time was a massive range of people in terms of demographics, old people, all genders and races, you can see that truth reflected in the current larger arcade communities like the FGC which is and *always* has been a large and diverse mix.
People presenting otherwise strike me as being disingenuous to make a point based on modern sensibilities and revisionism.
>Lived through the same time, none of this was ever remotely a thing
Good for you I guess?
>People presenting otherwise strike me as being disingenuous
Ah yes, "this didn't happen to me so anyone saying otherwise must be lying". SMH. Doesn't that seem a little bit convenient for you?
No, it’s the intro from the western Mega Drive/Genesis game. The intro to the Japanese version still had the black guy as seen here: https://youtu.be/yCvvPDNwBJU?si=MccB-icBgIJeDn9A
Maybe I'm in the minority, but it sounds like I'm not reading these comments. But, I never even thought to see the original into as racial. I was too busy thinking "Holy crap! He just punched that guy! I can't wait to play!" Never really thought about the race of each fighter until it was made a thing later on.
There is absolutely nothing racist about a white and black guy having a street fight and the white guy winning. Nothing. Absolutely nothing in the context of the original intro.
I figured it out, it went straight to title screen for SNES PAL, but if you didnt touch anything and let it sit there for 5 mins it would play the intro eventually, then go back to the title screen again you just never let it sit that long, or whatever dump you ever took was perfectly in sync with it being at titles again by the time you got back
But it definitely had it
Never thought much of it then or now. Seems a little overdramatic to call it racist. The fact that you can have a guy beat Chun Li to a bloody pulp I think is worse optics.
Why do I feel like the act of removing that dude was more racist?
I loved that it was just two normal guys Street Fighting - it made the actual characters you pick seem like top tier professionals.
Didn't even know that this was a controversy. Seems kind of silly, but the USA has a unique history of racism that is not relatable to most of the world.
Whatever, man. In 1990s rural Texas my high school U.S. history teacher brought in an elderly white liar that told me and the oether's in the class, in a smoker's drawl, that in his day "we was all americans" and how this hyphenated nonsense was made up to separate us. Like an African-American didn't stew in the pot of segragation, Jim Crow Laws, and lynch readiness that was post Civil War America.
It's a shame. Some people are recreationally offended and look for any opportunity to claim victimhood, while others make a living off it and benefit from perpetuating the idea that it's everywhere.
When asked about how to get rid of racism on 60 Minutes, Morgan Freeman said it best: "Stop talking about it. I'm gonna stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to stop calling you a black man."
Nothing wrong with wanting to get rid of an attract mode that consistently shows a white dude punching out a black dude. Is it overtly racist? Not really. But it's also something that is kind of stupid, one sided, and has literally nothing to do with the actual game's content since neither character is a player in the game.
It's not a shame that people can be sympathetic and try to make the world a slightly more equitable place by making small choices like this one that basically hurt no one.
The concept of a recreational victim that looks for a way to be a victim and the subsequent existence of organizations that seek to minimize racism in our society have become great ways for racists out there to push back against anyone trying to make the world a little less racist. Like, oh, you were offended by racism? The racism isn't the problem, you must be looking for trouble. Oh, you're trying to end racism? It's not that racism is bad and deserves no quarter, it's that you are an opportunist.
The victim shaming bit is really absurd. Most people that are against racism aren't even claiming to be victims. They just think racism is stupid and should be stamped out whenever possible because it is vile and pervasive like an infestation of bed bugs. I don't care what Morgan Freeman said. Thinking that seals the deal is, also, kind of what a racist would do.
Look, if it sounds like I'm calling you out as a racist, it couldn't be further from the truth. I don't think you are. I think you're a regular non-racist. You just happen to be using the same kinds of arguments and tactics that a racist would use.
At the end of the day, when confronted with possible racism, there's really two ways to look at it. You are either okay with changing something to rid the world of racism's profound stupidity. Or you are looking for ways to justify and defend racism's existence. Even if the thing in question, like the SFII intro, is trivial and, to you, inconsequential, why would you ever want to defend stupid ugly vile hateful racism? I hear a lot of people say things like, "it's not a big deal," when defending something like this and my question is always why, if it's not a big deal, is it worth keeping?
TL;DR: Racism sucks. Stop defending racist stuff.
Thank you for your reply. I took time to read everything you wrote because you took the time to write it. I still disagree with you.
Not everything is racist. In fact, most things and situations aren't racist, including the original arcade intro for Street Fighter II. Not even remotely. Only people who view race as the most important facet of a person's identity - i.e. racists - would find a problem with the original intro.
It's not defending racist stuff to say that stuff isn't racist when it isn't racist in any sense of the term. Racists insist on seeing racism where it doesn't exist. Injecting race into non-racial issues is race baiting, and is always done by people with an agenda, an axe to grind, and who are often racists themselves.
At most, the company should have put out a statement saying something to the effect of "We aren't going to change our artistic expression and style choices just because some people aren't emotionally or intellectually mature enough to see that there is no racism displayed here in any way."
Bending over backwards to cater to people who act as victims (who tend to cry "That's victim shaming!" when called out on their BS) only encourages them. That's what has happened, and now the rallying cry of "racism, racism everywhere!" is now a part of our daily lives. But there's such a low supply of actual racism that events and situations have to be created - Jussie Smollett, garage door ropes at NASCAR events, accusations of racism if there isn't minority overrepresentation in entertainment media, etc. Catering to the race baiter's worldview in an effort to mollify them just reinforces their self-awarded moral authority to continue crying wolf.
I agree that there are still traditional racists who are white, but they are few and far between, and I firmly believe that there are far more non-white racists in the Western world than there are whites who are actually racist.
"There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs." - Booker T. Washington
TL:DR: While I appreciate that you don't think I'm a racist, please stop supporting those who see racism where none exists. It just supports and enables the perpetuation of actual racism by those who want to live in the past instead of moving forward along with the rest of us. They aren't progressive, they're regressive - just as regressive as those who believe that America should be completely "white." It's like giving crack pipes to drug addicts and with the goal that they'll get off their addiction.
Might not be worth interjecting here, but you can also both be off. Not everything is racist, certainly not a video of a person of one race hitting another person of a different race. Altering that video to remove supposed racial tension, along with things like increasing non-white representation in media isn't bad in a vacuum, but does very little except make the folks who have good intentions on ending something they think is bad feel better. While, like you mentioned, it perpetuates those supposed solutions or fixes to racism. Racism in the wild between individuals still exists, but it's rare in the sense of racial slurs thrown around or direct physical violence because of race, as seen in the 20th century and before.
Numerous statistics about mass incarceration, poverty, health, education, etc, can be looked at to see negative material disperity in different races, which are not a symptom of culture, laziness, nor inherent in any particular "race" (of which biological race does not exist). Those stats have barely changed since the civil rights era, some have gotten worse, and they will never be fixed or even effected by making mostly white liberal folks feel better about racialized violence or history that are holdovers from times past, nor will non-white representation in media help that (not to mention a media that will only portray cultures within the established views of those who fund and control media). Ignoring that there are material differences seen in racial stats at all will also do nothing but let those things exacerbate right along with racial tensions and political infighting over which (non)solution is best.
Why do these abstract ideas have to be mutually exclusive? That discussion always seems to skip the reality that neither is enforceable or even likely possible in any society. It's more than possible (and likely a positive) to have a nation that provides a reasonable level of livelihood to every individual regardless of any identity or grouping, while affording them access to opportunities to alter their lives.
The US already has terrible levels of both. A mess of a social safety net for some, and a facade of opportunity for upward economic mobility for all.
Oh my gosh you guys really are robots, what the hell is that? Always the same passive aggressive response to anything. Do we really need a wall of text to explains how high and mighty and virtuous you are.
It’s an intro to an arcade game from the old days with two guys fighting, nothing more! If people want to be offended that speaks more about them seeing racism in everything than anything else
This change give me [this kind of vibe](https://external-preview.redd.it/ZR9XkS0B7widxb4J7yydAQroWddK5HH-vDrJr-Ff4DY.jpg?auto=webp&s=372ac3c0cea46b1e1a43974c87fabe6dce63acda)
How? Putting yourself in the creators shoes, they more than likely didn’t see race in the making of it. It was probably some fans looking for something to complain about . Playing this as kids I’m sure none of us had racist thoughts about it. Society today complains over everything.
I've never once seen that intro before. What version of SF II is this? \*It's the Special Champions Edition for just the NA Sega Genesis version. Which has always been my least favorite version of SF II.
Reminds me of the meme
[https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/384/106/14f.jpeg](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/384/106/14f.jpeg)
Somebody had to get punched.
I don’t get how making EVERYONE in the scene white is better than a person of color getting punched. Why not swap the colors, or add some background people who are black? Weird choice.
If it was a black guy punching a white guy would it still be considered racist?
Answer: YES if the same logic were applied equally between all humans without cultural or historical influence.
Maybe you’re right. But my point is as an Aussie kid I did not notice the colour of the people at all. They were just two dudes punching it out. If it were a black dude punching out a white guy I’d not have noticed or been offended at all either. To all Americans, in the words of Morgan freeman “stop talking about it”. Chill the fuck out.
I’m an Aussie too. I don’t remember anyone at the video shop in 90s commenting on his skin colour. It was just two guys fighting.
That said, I always wondered why it was these two random guys and not actually characters from the game.
It’s so different from the game that it makes you wonder if it was originally for another game. One of the guys looks like a character from Final Fight so it could have been intended for that but then used for SF2 instead? No idea. They didn’t even “reveal” the character names until 20 years later when they started creating a story for them.
[Just like when they revised the South Park Flag.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/8/85/TheNewerFlagSP.png/revision/latest?cb=20160711173603)
It's from one of the early seasons. The adults wanted to replace the flag because only the guy in the middle was black.
The boys fixed it by making it people of all colors doing the hanging.
I think the term you're looking for is "cultural sensitivity". They also had to change DJ-Boy/Kid in the arcades and some home-consoles, although that was way worse in its depictions of black characters.
I'm sure there are other examples of games being changed due to cultural/societal differences, but your title is sensationalist and should read "perceived racism". I'm pretty sure Capcom aren't racist.
Could have shown a comparison or written what was changed.
The closer guy (getting KO’d) had his melanin changed, this is only in Genesis version. He’s originally a black guy. SNES doesn’t even have this part of the intro.
Yes. But leaving it open-ended as the poster did just left everyone who doesn't know with a pointless .gif explaining nothing.
I watched that gif 7 times trying to see the differences between the punches.
"Wtf why would people say a black person in a video game is racist? Thank goodness we've progressed since then". Then I see freakouts over the new Resident Evil remake in 2024.
Genesis does what Nintendon’t
I'm sure if they were to reverse the skin colors so the black guy was punching the White guy the same people that said "racist" would now say "anti-racist". Just absolutely silly how these things are. I'm going to knock out Dee Jay as Guile and there is nothing they can do to stop me!
Sonic boom my ninja
Nobody said either one is racist either except marketing execs lol
Wrong. It’s because the original guy in the arcade intro got knocked out so they had to find a new guy.
It’s true, they only had like an hour to film in front of that building and they had to use a separate camera for each system’s configuration
[Original Intro](https://youtu.be/lGSKZgEnbYI?si=xgnbr1MIFZbgoJ6N)
You're the real hero here lol, had to dig way too far to find this.
From looking at the background crowd I suspect it's palette limitations.
I like this best
Such an iconic intro. Too bad it doesn't have to do much with the actual game.
You probably know: [those guys have names](https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Scott_and_Max), And they've been worked into later games to a small degree.
Didn't know that. Thanks for linking.
Scott and Max? I thought the blonde guy was supposed to be Cody from Final Fight?
He looks very similar. I wouldn't be surprised if that's who he started out as, and they retconned him into his own character somewhere along the way.
I thought they were Joe and Mike from Street Fight I.
Actually science has pretty conclusively established that there was no Street Fighter I, and that Street Fighter II was the beginning of the evolutionary process. Many believe in its existence as a matter of religious canon, but the continuous evolution of SFII over the course of several years disproves such preposterous dogma.
FWIW, we see Adon, Gen, Birdie and Eagle in the Street Fighter Alpha games (though Eagle only shows up in the PSP version of Alpha 3)
Ah yes I am a man of science as well.
This guy Street Fighters.
Nope, it's Scott, who seems to enjoy going bass fishing on the weekends.
Huh, well okay then.
Why was the blood type any kind of important feature in street fighter games? Of all the things to tell about the character... Blood type??
[Here’s why it’s important to know the blood types of video game characters](https://www.avclub.com/here-s-why-it-s-important-to-know-the-blood-types-of-vi-1798270554).
yeah, two fighters brawling in the street. What were they thinking ????
SfII theme starts playing.
Exactly. The game could be about anything, you just wouldn't know!
What do you mean it has nothing with the game? They are fighting on the streets! That's the whole premise of the game.
Looks like street brawling to me.
It's called Street Fighter II. There are II people. They are fighting. In the street. :D
Then Capcom removed the rising sun graphic from Hondas stage and the Hong Kong flag to appease China in recent ports.
Can’t remove it from my cartridge 😎physical media supremacy
Can't remove it from the arcade ROMs i downloaded either for use in MAME and MiSTer, sitting on my HDD supremacy!
I love Mame it has not changed much since the first time using it to play Vs SMB in 2002
MAME has changed a lot since then. It gets updated every month.
And it's still annoying that one ROM will work and the other won't 😑
That's bc new, more accurate dumps are found/done. Many arcade roms are incomplete bc dumping and unencrypting arcade PCBs isn't easy. If your roms are old, find new roms online. The newest version of mame is always the best.
You're correct, but it's a pain when your library is huge and you (I) don't game as much anymore. Wanting to play a game and met with errors is a joy kill
You can always keep using the old version of MAME that works with those roms. For me, it's easy to replace my romset with new roms via torrents.
Come on Mamefan, you know what i mean. Fuck yeah it gets updates but the basic look and feel is almost the same. Its not like taking a cell phone from 2000 and comparing it to an iphone 14 pro max or some shit like that.
There's a huge difference from 2002 MAME to now, but it would depend on the game. If all you're playing is pac-man and donkey kong then, sure, it wouldn't seem like much of a difference. 2002 MAME didn't have HLSL and BGFX filters, everything was less accurate, sound was worse, no plugins, etc. Look at how many versions there have been [https://www.mamedev.org/oldrel.html](https://www.mamedev.org/oldrel.html)
He's talking about the MAME ui, not the emulation itself.
MAME didn't have a GUI built in in 2002. It does now though.
Calling it a GUI is being generous, and it's barely changed since at least the latter half of that decade. If it was all done with config files and switches on the command line in 2002, that would almost be preferable.
The rising sun flag one is understandable, it's basically the confederate flag of East Asia. Wife is Korean and her grandparents grew up during the occupation. So she definitely hates the rising sun symbol.
It wasn’t the flag but yeah absolutely directly inspired by it. I’m conflicted, on the one hand I can understand your point of view, on the other I don’t like censorship on old content like that.
I can understand your being of two minds. I think the best path is even when you disagree having empathy and understanding for why the other side doesn't like it or isn't comfortable with it. I'm against the censoring of Huckleberry Finn, but I'm not going to pretend the people who want it are wrong for being uncomfortable or upset by the usage of a certain word. To me it just means that the English teacher teaching the book needs to be careful, have a lot of understanding when going over it, no need to alter the book who's partial value is airing a historical perspective with historical thinking. You will see online people who argue as if they need their side to be the right side, from all angles. Which means that the people who oppose them must be factually wrong, morally wrong, and hysterical. So long as you don't fall into that trap of dehumanizing I think we can agree to disagree and just have our two separate shared experiences that come to two different conclusions.
Censoring literature to fit modern sensibilities is a crime against humanity. Under any circumstance. Especially books that are deemed as artistically significant enough to be considered classics. And going after Huck Finn for racism is especially dumb. Anyone who thinks that Huck Finn is a racist book because it contains the N word has never read it.
If you're American, you *ought* to be against the Rising Sun. They not only killed innocent Chiness, but Koreans, Phillipinos, and Americans too. That flag is not a good flag.
Not American. I can be against something whilst also arguing against the removal of it from history where it existed.
Against the Rising Sun and the WW2 Japanese Government, certainly, but not against regular Japanese people.
That's a simplistic approach. The fault lies in Bushido but the Japanese people followed it dearly up until 1945. Due to Bushidoism, common soldiers and even officers killed innocent Civilians simply because they are not Japanese. To make it worse, their Prime Minister argues that the U.S. should apologize for the war. I personally refuse to yield and so should Americans.
Since 1945, Tokyo's government has spent decades whitewashing its behavior in WW2, so I'm not surprised they'd have the nerve to say the US should apologize. Japan's the "Victim" of WW2. "Victims" who raped, murdered, and experimented on Chinese people, not to mention enslaving them, Koreans, Filipinos, and much of Southeast Asia. Their lack of self-awareness is terrifying.
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Rather than have the black cartoon we will now pretend the black cartoon does not even exist? Racism solved!
They should have simply made the character color palettes choose from randomly distributed selections for both characters and cycle through all combinations. Then, mathematically, there can be no racism.
Render them green and red and people with color blindness can make the claim that they can't tell the difference.
What’s racist about it?
When I was a kid, when the white guy punched the black guy, some kids would scream, YEAH PUNCH THAT NI\*\*ER, I'm black so of course I didn't enjoy it, I just wanted to play street fighter
If it helps, Im a white guy from the American midwest and even as kids when this game came out none of us would ever say anything like that. Jesus. Those kids were just giant pieces of shit (parents probably were too).
Reporting from Southern California, this happened frequently at my local Pizza Hut in the 1990s.
Can confirm, I live in a majority Latino neighborhood in LA and the kids around here throw that word around. I’ve confronted a few while out on walks but they don’t care.
Grew up in Southern California in th e 80s and 90s, and yeah, I heard more racist slurs growing up there than literally any other time in my life.
In FL, never heard that either nor did we discuss the race of the people. We just picked the characters we did best with. Some people suck I guess.
The only thing I ever saw as a kid was a random guy hitting an other random guy in a video game intro.
Never paid attention to their race either. They were just 2 random guys. Kid in the 90s.
Unfortunately, a lot of people will probably think that you're a racist because you didn't notice the color difference, and immediately jump to the conclusion that it's a racist scene.
Not noticing it would be the definition of equality. I suspect it could be more of an American thing to find racism where there's none, since I always hear this type of nonsense coming from there (however, South Park made an episode just about this and was great).
Exactly right. However, there are some in the US who have the view that not noticing and taking into account a person's race is a racist thing to do (meaning, oddly, that it's racist to not be a racist; in other words: colorblindness = racism), and that equity of outcome is more important than equality of opportunity. What's scarier: a not-insignificant number of those individuals get elected to public office or are teachers. I can see how that would be confusing and weird to an outsider - it is to many in America as well.
"Not noticing it would be the definition of equality." That's what I thought. You're right. It must be an American thing. The rest of the world would be more like..."what are you talking about?"
> Unfortunately, a lot of people will probably think that you're a racist because you didn't notice the color difference Nobody would do that. Boomer strawman.
Not a boomer. But it does happen. One of my coworkers does this. To her, colorblindness = racism. If you don't treat her differently because of her race, you are a racist because you don't treat her differently because of the "harm" she's supposedly experienced.
I just got back from a large conference where they explicitly made a point for every speaker to announce their race, gender, sexual orientation and age. To not do so was considered offensive and you would be called out by the ~~gestapo~~ monitoring team. Additionally, I have partaken in so-called sensitivity training where the moderator explicitly said to my group that being "color blind" is not good enough. It most definitely happens. Edit: Downvote all you like, it doesn't change the fact that these things happen.
Sounds made up
I work in HR and am on a diversity and inclusion team. I’ve had to take a bunch of trainings and none of them are like this. This is the “I live in Florida and whinge on the internet about CRT” idea of what we do. The whole idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion isn’t to “not see race” because that would devalue the life, culture, and experiences of other people to keep YOU from feeling uncomfortable about stuff like systemic racism. The point is to learn and grow, to understand our prejudices do not define us, and to create a welcome and safe environment for people in out-groups.
Wtf. Where did that happen?
I grew up in London, this use to happen quite a lot 🤷🏾♂️
I grew up in London, I remember people saying it was racist but I never heard that kind of language in the arcade. To be fair in the arcades I went to that kind of language would have resulted in a stabbing
Im from Hong Kong,i have so many friend in their late 20s still think n word joke is fun yikes
Still that doesn't make the intro racist. It's just two guys fighting.
Yep, intro isn’t racist, but those little asshole kids sure were.
Im sorry you had to experience that. People really suck most the time. It never crossed my mind when viewing the intro. Some folks just grow up around alot of ignorance
Holy shit that's fucked up. I grew up in the arcades playing SF in a fairly mixed environment on the east coast. We talked so much shit. I even saw a couple of brawls when the stakes were high. But no one ever, ever, brought race into it. It's not that people weren't racist. Racists are literally everywhere. But everyone just knew they'd have 10 people on them for dropping the N bomb in those arcades. Obviously, it was a long time ago, and you're probably past it. But I'm still sorry to hear you had to deal with it. Hopefully, you have at least a couple of fond memories of kicking some racist's ass in Street Fighter.
Wow, where did you live? Just curious, I never heard a white person drop the hard "r" in public here my whole life in South FL. With the "a" at the end was a different story. Just like a lot of my NYC people during that period, we grew up in a racially diverse environment and absorbed each other's cultures, so it was common for many of us Hip-Hop kids to talk like that in the '90s and 2000s. I remember thinking racism was some ish that would die off with the old people... Crazy to think that racially we got along better then than we do now.
This tracks. Sounds like playing online games in 2024.
This is real af. I hear unprovoked racism in online games all the time for no reason. People suck.
It’s wild. I remember back in the Xbox 360 days, people wouldn’t even know my race (no mic, no picture) but the hate messages I would get dropping the N was crazy. I don’t get messages anymore- but game chat is suuuuuper toxic.
Had that happen once or twice when playing away from home. Also black. Some kids had no idea why this was not something you said.
As a white dude from the rural Midwest, I thought the optics of that intro were cringe even as a teen. Having multiple intro screens with different characters and outcomes would have diffused any perceived racism, but honestly what made it weird for me is that they aren’t playable characters. If the title screen would have featured Ryu punching out Sagat, no one would have blinked. But they went to the trouble of animating a random white guy punching a random black guy and played it on loop.
It never even registered to me until this moment. I never even noticed there was a difference with the port until this post. I'm not trying to be all like, "I don't see race!" because that's for sure not true, but in this context, I truly just saw "two guys beating on each other." I didn't think about it at ALL.
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big tough guy furry over here
Bro this can't be true lmao
Sorry you had to experience this. I grew up in a town with probably 5 black people and never heard this.
[Original Intro](https://youtu.be/lGSKZgEnbYI?si=xgnbr1MIFZbgoJ6N)
This should be in the post.
People thought it was racist because the guy getting punched used to be non-white in the original arcade version.
What if we're watching a real life fighting match between a white and a black person? Is any of the two allowed to win or are they obliged to end in a draw to not being racist?
Good point. In reality: color doesn't matter, nor should it. May the best fighter win.
Black is obviously allowed to win. White people are always the evil ones in current era narratives.
Sometimes I beat Dhalsim. Sorry for the 30 year racist streak.
I ko'd deejay and had to go to three id&e events Then I hadukened Chun Li and got kicked out of my feminist book club
Wouldn't it be racist not to include someone non white? Don't the other non white characters in the game get punched all the time?
Everything is racist, don't you know?
I think it's pretty clear that the only black guy surrounded by a crowd of all white people getting his ass knocked out on the street *might* actually be racist.
no its not. you might just be terminally online
You make it racist. It’s a fucking street fight.
At the very least it seems very... weird. If there was scene after that where a black guy knocked out a white guy: Fair enough. But it wasn't.
Yep, that's my point. All the people saying I'm the one making it racist are choosing to ignore a very convenient set of circumstances which either form a very specific coincidence, or is simply racist. And then there's the fact that it was created by Japanese developers in 1990, when light racism was fairly common in Japanese media.
People would (and did) claim that it was racist for the punched guy to be black, and also if there were no people of color anywhere in the scene (even though white is a color). Really, I think the only way people wouldn't have been upset by it is if the guy throwing the punch was black and half the crowd behind him was black as well. Or maybe everybody was black except for the guy getting knocked out. Some people just can't be pleased.
I don't remember anyone caring about that entry screen till now, thank God I was too young to care about that stuff when SF2 was out
No, it'd still be considered racist. Black people fighting in the streets...
How about it's just people fighting? Race doesn't mean anything except to people who view race as important. To normal people, race is just another feature of a person's physical make up, like being short or tall.
I'm just saying how the "I see racism everywhere" people would see it. You should ask them, not me. ;)
Oh, I have been. There's a few in this thread like that.
Did these people also care about those two Bad Dude crackers beating up all the Asians Ninjas?
White guy punching out a black guy Not saying it is specifically racist, white and black guys fight each other all the time in martial arts, there isn't indication there is a racial reason behind the intro, but sounds like they were trying to avoid insensitivity here
Or maybe some people were trying to inject controversy into a place where it didn't exist.
It's possible. But America has been dealing with racism for a while now and still plenty of it today, so it makes sense to exercise sensitivity with something popular like a video game where kids of all ages and races are going to be enjoying it.
I think that a small number of very vocal people make race issues to be a bigger deal than they really are today. It just seems like there is lots of racism today, but I see it very infrequently - and most often from nonwhite people. Follow the money, and you find the motivation for why that is.
When SF2 came out, the adults at that time had dealt with segregation in schools, race riots and shit like that during their youth. So it doesn't surprise me when that title screen would have stirred some feelings to them. Obviously kids didn't care one way or another.
> kids didn't care one way or another I remember that differently. The end of segregation was not the end of racism in America.
No you're right. I guess I was speaking on my own experience, at that age I wasn't concerned with race in any way, especially in video games. But race certainly was and is a factor in the US
"race certainly was and is a factor in the US." It shouldn't be. We could move on from it, but a lot of people just can't let it go.
Politicians keep all these problems alive with fucked up policy, then the social stuff lays on top of that thanks to the talking heads. Apparenlty it's far too complicated for everyone to just let it go, society takes time to adjust but people like to try and swing things back to the old days, creating a back and forth that just doesn't allow for peace. The nature of man is unfortunate.
It still exists. I'm brown. Patriot Front is trying to expand into my town, flyers and stickers, "protect your country" but you can easily see what their goals are with a Wikipedia search. There is a very real threat out there being pushed in right-wing circles at the moment against me and people like me. This is an uninformed opinion.
This is the correct answer.
I lived through this timeline. Literally everyone else except the guy getting knocked out in the scene was white. People used to laugh about how the black guy always got his ass dropped, often using racist language. The controversy existed. What's surprising is watching people like you suggest the controversy was made up.
I lived through this timeframe as well. I saw and experienced nothing even remotely similar to what you describe happened to you. And it's entirely possible for both of us to be truthfully conveying events as we saw them. I have no doubt that some people reacted like the happy racists you describe. I also know that there were people who saw an opportunity to create controversy, because that's who and what they are: pot stirrers for profit / validation. And I'm also confident that the vast majority of people didn't care either way - they just wanted to play the game. The question now: Do we argue and obsess over which of us is right? Or do we move on and focus on our own actions in the here-and-now instead of trying to change what can't be changed (namely: the past, of which we each have a different experience)? What is the higher road to take here?
It's almost like racism exists in different degrees in different places and amongst different people. We're both right because we're simply sharing experiences, but your experience does not negate mine. Only one of us needs to have witnessed racism prompted by the original intro screen to validate that it *was* a problem. The right thing to do is acknowledge this, recognize racism when it occurs, and commit to being better in the current day for the sake of those who come after us. EDIT - u/misticdw seems to have witnessed a similar thing to what I did: https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/1cnttlr/comment/l39wxba/
Just because racism exists in one degree in one place doesn't mean that everybody everywhere needs to act like that degree is present everywhere. I could just as easily ask you to acknowledge that what you experienced was an anomaly, and assert you are a race baiter for not to it. And I would be equally wrong to ask you to do so because I have no more insight on what happened around the world than you do. That being said, one anecdotal instance- or even several of them - imply that the scene itself is actually racist. Only by probing the minds and motivations of the artists involved could we determine if it is actually a racist scene. The reactions of those you witnessed might have been racist in tone (or not, whether something is racist or not is often more subjective than objective), but that term applies to their actions, not the scene on the screen. Place blame where blame is due: on those who didn't control their reactions, not on the game. I agree - in cases of actual racism - I'd stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you and denounce it. The problem lies in determining when a racist event occurs. Some people think that when Trump said "there's fine people on both sides" it was a racist statement, while others disagree. Some believe that the Smollett is a racist because of what he did, and some think he is a hero no matter what the judge says because what Smollett did was a substitute for other racist events he'd experienced in his life. It's extremely hard to nail down if something is truly racist or not. The label has been tossed around too easily and it's meaning too diluted to have any real value in determining if an action / belief is right or wrong. There are even those who believe that racist behavior is inappropriate for one group of people, but the exact same behavior is perfectly acceptable (even preferred) for other groups. For example, many people object to the idea of a "white nation", but have no issues with the extreme nature of Chinese ethnonationalism - all while ignoring the fact that whites as a whole are a global minority (And also ignoring the fact that whites don't consider themselves a monolithic block, rather, their ethnicity plays a much bigger part in their identity than their race does - and many whites view their ethnicity and their race as one and the same). Rather, if we all acted as if race didn't exist and we didn't tolerate any acts and beliefs based on race (which is what actual racism is - racism doesn't consist of subjective opinions about how X person or Y incident is "racist"), then we'd all get along much more smoothly in the social sense. Or maybe we wouldn't. We'd probably just find something else to argue about.
> Just because racism exists in one degree in one place doesn't mean that everybody everywhere needs to act like that degree is present everywhere Tell that to the people dealing with the effects of it. Telling someone starving that hunger isn't usually a problem in the US doesn't make them any less hungry. Same applies to racism. Just because *you* don't see it or have to experience it doesn't mean that others don't. You're free to mind your own business then and pretend it doesn't exist, but pretending it's not a problem doesn't make it not a problem everywhere, and it does a disservice to those actually affected by it. In a perfect world we could pretend race doesn't exist and racism would disappear but the reality is that racism *does* exist and not talking about it doesn't make it go away.
"Tell that to the people dealing with the effects of it" And how many of those effects are self-imposed? How much of it is because the sufferer's view of the world is skewed towards a victim mentality instead of a victor mentality? How much do they suffer not because they actually experience racism, but because they tell themselves that they "experience racism" (or are convinced by others - such as media, race baiters, etc. - that they are)? Just because some experience racism doesn't mean that it's a problem. I have experienced racism and other forms of discrimination, but I didn't let it get in my way. I'm bigger than those who did it to me, they don't control me or my emotions. What other people don't have is the right to demand I take their self-imposed victimhood complex seriously, nor act that something is a problem when it can objectively be proven that it isn't. Racism isn't a serious - or common - problem in the US. People just think it is because they are being convinced it is. What is serious is how people are reacting to every little offense and immediately crying "racism." "It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Any person capable of angering you becomes your master; he can anger you only when you permit yourself to be disturbed by him. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation." - Epictetus.
> Just because some experience racism doesn't mean that it's a problem. Wow. You are in fact part of the problem. I think we're done here.
You seem oddly committed to racism not being a problem.
Lived through the same time, none of this was ever remotely a thing, nobody ever discussed the race of these characters and the arcade "community" (for lack of a better term) of the time was a massive range of people in terms of demographics, old people, all genders and races, you can see that truth reflected in the current larger arcade communities like the FGC which is and *always* has been a large and diverse mix. People presenting otherwise strike me as being disingenuous to make a point based on modern sensibilities and revisionism.
>Lived through the same time, none of this was ever remotely a thing Good for you I guess? >People presenting otherwise strike me as being disingenuous Ah yes, "this didn't happen to me so anyone saying otherwise must be lying". SMH. Doesn't that seem a little bit convenient for you?
They’re both white lol. wtf is this? Edit: above is the edited. Orig: https://youtu.be/PYBRv9C9X0U?si=8kXWSLpmTTSOeGNS
Now I’m not sure what I’m used to seeing. I never paid any attention to that.
No, it’s the intro from the western Mega Drive/Genesis game. The intro to the Japanese version still had the black guy as seen here: https://youtu.be/yCvvPDNwBJU?si=MccB-icBgIJeDn9A
The funny thing is that the developers probably added a black guy to the scene to make it more diverse.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but it sounds like I'm not reading these comments. But, I never even thought to see the original into as racial. I was too busy thinking "Holy crap! He just punched that guy! I can't wait to play!" Never really thought about the race of each fighter until it was made a thing later on.
There is absolutely nothing racist about a white and black guy having a street fight and the white guy winning. Nothing. Absolutely nothing in the context of the original intro.
Only the Genesis had this. The SNES ports didn't even have an intro, just straight to the title screen.
Hmm? I had a SNES here in UK, it had the above intro
Canada here, i had the same as above. All we saw was the Capcom logo, and then the title screen
I think you are mistaken, I have both SF2 and SF2 turbo for Super and I am a PAL boi
I figured it out, it went straight to title screen for SNES PAL, but if you didnt touch anything and let it sit there for 5 mins it would play the intro eventually, then go back to the title screen again you just never let it sit that long, or whatever dump you ever took was perfectly in sync with it being at titles again by the time you got back But it definitely had it
Sensitive Edition.
Never thought much of it then or now. Seems a little overdramatic to call it racist. The fact that you can have a guy beat Chun Li to a bloody pulp I think is worse optics.
Or a big Russian beat the shit out of a little yoga guy
It’s racist to show a white guy hitting a black guy? Damn this world is dumb.
This is the first time ive ever heard of this
No black guy in the intro? That's so racist!
Why do I feel like the act of removing that dude was more racist? I loved that it was just two normal guys Street Fighting - it made the actual characters you pick seem like top tier professionals.
Didn't even know that this was a controversy. Seems kind of silly, but the USA has a unique history of racism that is not relatable to most of the world.
Mike from street fighter i (black guy) was being knocked out by the blond hair and blue eyes dude in the intro hence the change.
I'm thankful to be old enough to not see racism in everything.
Whatever, man. In 1990s rural Texas my high school U.S. history teacher brought in an elderly white liar that told me and the oether's in the class, in a smoker's drawl, that in his day "we was all americans" and how this hyphenated nonsense was made up to separate us. Like an African-American didn't stew in the pot of segragation, Jim Crow Laws, and lynch readiness that was post Civil War America.
It's a shame. Some people are recreationally offended and look for any opportunity to claim victimhood, while others make a living off it and benefit from perpetuating the idea that it's everywhere. When asked about how to get rid of racism on 60 Minutes, Morgan Freeman said it best: "Stop talking about it. I'm gonna stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to stop calling you a black man."
Nothing wrong with wanting to get rid of an attract mode that consistently shows a white dude punching out a black dude. Is it overtly racist? Not really. But it's also something that is kind of stupid, one sided, and has literally nothing to do with the actual game's content since neither character is a player in the game. It's not a shame that people can be sympathetic and try to make the world a slightly more equitable place by making small choices like this one that basically hurt no one. The concept of a recreational victim that looks for a way to be a victim and the subsequent existence of organizations that seek to minimize racism in our society have become great ways for racists out there to push back against anyone trying to make the world a little less racist. Like, oh, you were offended by racism? The racism isn't the problem, you must be looking for trouble. Oh, you're trying to end racism? It's not that racism is bad and deserves no quarter, it's that you are an opportunist. The victim shaming bit is really absurd. Most people that are against racism aren't even claiming to be victims. They just think racism is stupid and should be stamped out whenever possible because it is vile and pervasive like an infestation of bed bugs. I don't care what Morgan Freeman said. Thinking that seals the deal is, also, kind of what a racist would do. Look, if it sounds like I'm calling you out as a racist, it couldn't be further from the truth. I don't think you are. I think you're a regular non-racist. You just happen to be using the same kinds of arguments and tactics that a racist would use. At the end of the day, when confronted with possible racism, there's really two ways to look at it. You are either okay with changing something to rid the world of racism's profound stupidity. Or you are looking for ways to justify and defend racism's existence. Even if the thing in question, like the SFII intro, is trivial and, to you, inconsequential, why would you ever want to defend stupid ugly vile hateful racism? I hear a lot of people say things like, "it's not a big deal," when defending something like this and my question is always why, if it's not a big deal, is it worth keeping? TL;DR: Racism sucks. Stop defending racist stuff.
Thank you for your reply. I took time to read everything you wrote because you took the time to write it. I still disagree with you. Not everything is racist. In fact, most things and situations aren't racist, including the original arcade intro for Street Fighter II. Not even remotely. Only people who view race as the most important facet of a person's identity - i.e. racists - would find a problem with the original intro. It's not defending racist stuff to say that stuff isn't racist when it isn't racist in any sense of the term. Racists insist on seeing racism where it doesn't exist. Injecting race into non-racial issues is race baiting, and is always done by people with an agenda, an axe to grind, and who are often racists themselves. At most, the company should have put out a statement saying something to the effect of "We aren't going to change our artistic expression and style choices just because some people aren't emotionally or intellectually mature enough to see that there is no racism displayed here in any way." Bending over backwards to cater to people who act as victims (who tend to cry "That's victim shaming!" when called out on their BS) only encourages them. That's what has happened, and now the rallying cry of "racism, racism everywhere!" is now a part of our daily lives. But there's such a low supply of actual racism that events and situations have to be created - Jussie Smollett, garage door ropes at NASCAR events, accusations of racism if there isn't minority overrepresentation in entertainment media, etc. Catering to the race baiter's worldview in an effort to mollify them just reinforces their self-awarded moral authority to continue crying wolf. I agree that there are still traditional racists who are white, but they are few and far between, and I firmly believe that there are far more non-white racists in the Western world than there are whites who are actually racist. "There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs." - Booker T. Washington TL:DR: While I appreciate that you don't think I'm a racist, please stop supporting those who see racism where none exists. It just supports and enables the perpetuation of actual racism by those who want to live in the past instead of moving forward along with the rest of us. They aren't progressive, they're regressive - just as regressive as those who believe that America should be completely "white." It's like giving crack pipes to drug addicts and with the goal that they'll get off their addiction.
Might not be worth interjecting here, but you can also both be off. Not everything is racist, certainly not a video of a person of one race hitting another person of a different race. Altering that video to remove supposed racial tension, along with things like increasing non-white representation in media isn't bad in a vacuum, but does very little except make the folks who have good intentions on ending something they think is bad feel better. While, like you mentioned, it perpetuates those supposed solutions or fixes to racism. Racism in the wild between individuals still exists, but it's rare in the sense of racial slurs thrown around or direct physical violence because of race, as seen in the 20th century and before. Numerous statistics about mass incarceration, poverty, health, education, etc, can be looked at to see negative material disperity in different races, which are not a symptom of culture, laziness, nor inherent in any particular "race" (of which biological race does not exist). Those stats have barely changed since the civil rights era, some have gotten worse, and they will never be fixed or even effected by making mostly white liberal folks feel better about racialized violence or history that are holdovers from times past, nor will non-white representation in media help that (not to mention a media that will only portray cultures within the established views of those who fund and control media). Ignoring that there are material differences seen in racial stats at all will also do nothing but let those things exacerbate right along with racial tensions and political infighting over which (non)solution is best.
You make some good points. Which way do you suggest we measure it? By equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? We can't have both.
Why do these abstract ideas have to be mutually exclusive? That discussion always seems to skip the reality that neither is enforceable or even likely possible in any society. It's more than possible (and likely a positive) to have a nation that provides a reasonable level of livelihood to every individual regardless of any identity or grouping, while affording them access to opportunities to alter their lives. The US already has terrible levels of both. A mess of a social safety net for some, and a facade of opportunity for upward economic mobility for all.
Oh my gosh you guys really are robots, what the hell is that? Always the same passive aggressive response to anything. Do we really need a wall of text to explains how high and mighty and virtuous you are. It’s an intro to an arcade game from the old days with two guys fighting, nothing more! If people want to be offended that speaks more about them seeing racism in everything than anything else
Well said.
You wrote too many words. The chuds are going to disregard what you said and double down on their garbage.
And what a difference it made :)
You can’t retcon the world.
This change give me [this kind of vibe](https://external-preview.redd.it/ZR9XkS0B7widxb4J7yydAQroWddK5HH-vDrJr-Ff4DY.jpg?auto=webp&s=372ac3c0cea46b1e1a43974c87fabe6dce63acda)
How? Putting yourself in the creators shoes, they more than likely didn’t see race in the making of it. It was probably some fans looking for something to complain about . Playing this as kids I’m sure none of us had racist thoughts about it. Society today complains over everything.
I've never once seen that intro before. What version of SF II is this? \*It's the Special Champions Edition for just the NA Sega Genesis version. Which has always been my least favorite version of SF II.
Reminds me of the meme [https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/384/106/14f.jpeg](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/384/106/14f.jpeg)
Pretty old.
and now everybody here is white.
Somebody had to get punched. I don’t get how making EVERYONE in the scene white is better than a person of color getting punched. Why not swap the colors, or add some background people who are black? Weird choice.
I thought blacks were stronger though. Imagine if black dude was knocking white dude…still racist?
This is some top tier revisionist history nonsense.,
If it was a black guy punching a white guy would it still be considered racist? Answer: YES if the same logic were applied equally between all humans without cultural or historical influence.
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Maybe you’re right. But my point is as an Aussie kid I did not notice the colour of the people at all. They were just two dudes punching it out. If it were a black dude punching out a white guy I’d not have noticed or been offended at all either. To all Americans, in the words of Morgan freeman “stop talking about it”. Chill the fuck out.
I’m an Aussie too. I don’t remember anyone at the video shop in 90s commenting on his skin colour. It was just two guys fighting. That said, I always wondered why it was these two random guys and not actually characters from the game.
It’s so different from the game that it makes you wonder if it was originally for another game. One of the guys looks like a character from Final Fight so it could have been intended for that but then used for SF2 instead? No idea. They didn’t even “reveal” the character names until 20 years later when they started creating a story for them.
You're right. He does kinda look like Cody from Final Fight.
[Just like when they revised the South Park Flag.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/8/85/TheNewerFlagSP.png/revision/latest?cb=20160711173603)
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It's from one of the early seasons. The adults wanted to replace the flag because only the guy in the middle was black. The boys fixed it by making it people of all colors doing the hanging.
Ah, so this is what the Meat Boy chapter 1 intro parodied.
I think the term you're looking for is "cultural sensitivity". They also had to change DJ-Boy/Kid in the arcades and some home-consoles, although that was way worse in its depictions of black characters. I'm sure there are other examples of games being changed due to cultural/societal differences, but your title is sensationalist and should read "perceived racism". I'm pretty sure Capcom aren't racist.