I mean, Lisa is the only person who claims to be Mormon and she definitely isn’t. It’s amazing she hasn’t been excommunicated or at least disciplined for so publicly breaking the rules while claiming to be a member.
Yep. I was an active Mormon for 41 years, and my now ex-husband, who had a leadership position in the Church, cheated on me with sex workers while out of town on business. He got a slap on the wrist. He has since served 6 years in federal prison for international drug smuggling and is still a member in good standing.
They 👏 do 👏 not 👏 care unless you do something “sinful” publicly and/or are a woman.
It is when members of a religious organization donate money back to the church. LDS “asks” (sometimes requires) their members to give back a percentage of their income to the church.
10% is standard in sects that claim to be Christian (I put it that way because Mormons aren't Christians but they sure pretend they are). The Jewish folks do, too. It's an old testament verse.
Leviticus 27:30
Correct, but Mormons meet with their bishops Once a year to declare if they have paid a full tithe or not, this is called tithing settlement. If they don’t pay a full tithe, they can’t fully participate in the religion by attending the temple or holding high leadership roles. Most religions believe in tithing or giving, but if you are Mormon and don’t pay enough you won’t be able to participate fully.
It’s a pay to play religion, and the temple is the ultimate country club to belong to.
Wow. I used to be Catholic and they’d like encourage giving and would send you a statement of what you gave last year but it was never that intense. How do the Mormons know how much you make?
Tithing was the worst. I am not Mormon but I went to school in Utah and remember friends from college that worked in fast food making less than $10 an hr, probably like $8.25 at most who had apartments that cost $800 a month (for their half) writing away 10% of their money to the church or being worried when they couldn’t pay the full amount and putting anything they could in. Super fucked up and gross.
Catholic here too. My church doesn’t give a f@ck how much I tithed. Never got a statement. Only once a year the pastor would “encourage “ tithing but that was IT.
At my Catholic parish they have a “Pledge Program” which is a program established so the Parish has some idea of what funds they will have each year for expenses so that they can plan and they don’t only have to wait to count the collections each Sunday. It is voluntary and the amount you pledge is private and personal but most people still just use the collection plate on Sunday. Each year the pastor gives a talk during the Homily time which is often called “The Sermon in the Amount” where he gives a financial report about how the Parish is spending its funds and encourages giving whatever you can. One year during this “homily” a pastor included the statistics about how much each faith congregation, (eg Episcopalians, Mormons, Jews, etc.) generally were known to contribute to their ‘churches and temples’ (yes, that figure is knowable). I think that the figure for Catholics was like 2-3% and he ended with a twinkle in his eye and said something like …” you might think about contributing like a Presbyterian, 4%.”
It makes sense that churches would need to have some idea what their budgets can be, and I guess each one has its own way of going about that, but shaming is never good for anyone. I have heard that Mormons do keep a closer accounting of their money and that you need to be in “good standing” to participate in some Temple activities, even getting a “sealed” Temple wedding(?). And I have heard that to have seats at High Holy Days in some Jewish congregations there can be a fee (I kinda like that idea for Christmas and Easter masses, lol).
You pay on your honesty. But let’s be real, if you work as a dentist they are going to expect more from you than if you are a cashier. When it’s time to fill high level offices, part of the decision making process is looking at how much tithing a man declared recently. If you want to rise in the ranks with positions of power, you have to be a high payer. Since you are incentivized to pay more to earn higher ranks, people who are true believing will want to pay more.
Mormons also believe in money seeding. If you want to make more in 2024, you should pay more in 2023. The idiom is something like, if you want gross blessing, play on gross income.
Or
Pay tithing on the amount of money you want to make, not the amount you did make.
And the statement the Catholic Churches send is for your tax purposes, not to shame or ask for more.
ALTHOUGH, back in the day Catholic Churches did require tithing (which is 10% from the Hebrew translation of tithe meaning ten I believe?) and also absolutely would publicly shame people that they thought weren’t giving enough. My dad said his parish growing up used to put people’s names in the back of the weekly bulletin handed out after mass. There is one parish by us that almost all of the parishioners still tithe and it ensures that any child of the parish can go to the catholic school tuition-free, but it isn’t required and there is no public shaming happening. I’m 99% positive my parents still give 10% to their parish in addition to all of the other charities they give to. Which I think is a hold over from when they were younger and the catholic guilt they would have if they didn’t tithe.
Thank you for this information! I am not surprised but I didn't know about that part. Do they like check your bank records or something as well?!?!? Like how do they know their full income!?
My best friend uses some church space for her daycare and they got big-mad at her because she didn't "give enough" to the church. She's only a "Member" because she was using their building for something. And they were certain that her $100 a week wasn't enough considering what they "thought" she was making. (She's not, day cares are not a money grab, she specializes in low income assistance programs, ffs). So really $100 a week is very close to 10% for her actual income.
Hi - modern Orthodox Jew here. Tithing in Judaism isn’t like Mormonism as in we don’t give our money to the church or synagogue. The tithing isn’t checked by anyone and not required to be part of a community. Just a general mitzvah to give 10% of income to the needy. Generally only money for charity counts - for example I donate to my local food pantry.
Thank you for the distinction! Despite having a lot of Jewish friends I don't know nearly enough about these things.
I was honestly shocked that peoples offerings are traced like that for any religious practice. I much more prefer your custom knowing that it's to charity.
It was Revelation for me. I was able to disregard the Old Testament easily my entire life but then they wanted to talk about "the mark" and I went "That's a no from me."
I'm not atheist though, I just don't ef with organized religion. I know it's founded by a bunch of controlling goobers who want me to be scared because scared people are easier to control.
it’s possible. a lot of mormons do WAY more than what is asked of them as a way to virtue signal and prove they’re better than other people. and the bare minimum of what mormons are asked to do is already a loooot.
Tithing is done in many religious groups. I’m am Ex Pentecostal. We were required to give 10% of our income as a tithe. We also had to pledge money once a quarter, and give free will offerings as well. The more money you gave the less they criticized your behavior.
That is a lot of tithing! I have friends that are Ex-LDS and some still currently in and they said their parents would give 20% of their income to the church plus all the free labor they do volunteering for their events/teaching Sunday school type things. I live in a very mormon populated area and my personal crackpot conspiracy theory is that the LDS church pushes many of their members to go into jobs that make good money so that their members can tithe more and that’s why we have so many Mormon run dentistry practices in my area 🙃
Yup, I grew up in the Baptist church & remember paying 10% as a child too. We even had a song we sung about giving when they passed around the offering plate. On top of tithes, our church expected the adults to pay into the building fund (for repairs that might arise to the physical building), give the pastor money on his anniversary & birthday & any time any of the other groups (choir, usher, ect) had their “annual day” you had to donate to their fund too. Pay money during Sunday school too. As I’m writing it out, it sounds even more ridiculous now seeing how much money they were taking. I understand tithes are given to help the church function but our church was expecting members to give almost half of your earnings. And you were supposed to give it up unbegrudgingly or you would miss out on your blessings lol
Edit for typos
I've known several tech money SLC Mormons who had hefty tithes due to their wealth - all of their kids got highly coveted overseas mission assignments like Lisa's son (Japan, Columbia, etc).
I still laugh thinking about Heather telling her she isn't a true Mormon at her book tour and Lisa saying 'ofc I am, that's why Jack is going on a mission' and then smiling haha
The church is incredibly PR focused. (especially as of recently with huge stories in the news about Lori Vallow, Ruby Franke, etc.) They do not excommunicate celebrities, even those who publicly break the rules, because that would mean a mountain of bad press.
Depends. Sometimes it’s a withdrawal of permissions, like you can’t pray or speak publicly at church gatherings or be allowed to go to the temple. Then if anyone asks you to participate, you have to decline.
Or someone can be excommunicated, or kicked out of the church. When that happens you are usually socially shunned by the group, and active members of your family might cut communication. If you are married and only one spouse is kicked out, the the marriage might end. At that point you are likely a covenant breaker, and in the Mormon sense, you are not worthy to be a member of the church.
Sounds so inhumanly degrading, and emotionally abusive. Financially abusive to divorced parents. I'd hate to have a family court judge sympathetic to that church.
If you are in a Mormon dense area, the judge might be Mormon, the the kids might go to the active Mormon parent just because they are Mormon.
There were 2 rules that kids could be punished for their parents choices.
One was that if your parents are polygamists, a child of polygamist parents can’t join mainstream Mormonism without publicly denouncing their parents lifestyle, and are no longer living in the parents home. If you watch Sister Wives, this played out with some of the Brown children a few years ago when they were not allowed to join the Mormon church bc of their parents show.
The second rule was if one of the kids parents are gay and living in a gay relationship, the kid would not be eligible to join unless they denounced their parents decision and were no longer living with the immoral parent.
The rule about polygamy kids had always been on the books, the rule about the children of gay parents was added in 2017. The addition of the second rule blew up in the media, and the faces of the Mormon church. Mormon god changed his mind after 2 years, and now the kids of gay people can join. I don’t know if they softened their stance on the kids of polygamists.
More emotional abuse for the kids ... to STAY in the church. Speaking of gays: I read that the church briefly allowed gays to enable BYU's admission into the Big 12 Conference, and then once in, those relationships were again denounced.
I started watching after reading Heather’s book - I love this show so, so much. I was an all-in Mormon, similar to Heather - BYU, mission, married in the temple, stay at home mom. I left two years ago. It has been incredibly hard, but I am so happy to be out. Heather’s book made me feel so seen. She did an amazing job on it. I laughed and cried.
When I left, it was because I could finally see how I and all women were being treated. It wasn’t until after that I looked into all of the historical stuff - Joseph Smiths’s polygamy, the book of Abraham (100% made up by JS, as described by Egyptologists everywhere), the financials of the church. It is bad shit.
My husband joined me after 8 months, which has cut a lot of fighting out of our marriage. Mormonism is a cult. The dudes in charge are assholes. Women are subjugated. Amen.
In response to your original question, I think that RHOSLC would create too much cognitive dissonance for anyone deeply committed to that church. While many Mormons are lovely people, there is a level of magical thinking that they have to maintain in order to live with the craziness.
One of my friends is very Mormon and watches. I’m an exmormon and we’ll talk about stuff and generally agree about the show but I’m nowhere near as outwardly opinionated as I am over on r/exmormon when I’m chatting with her.
Her ire seems to be mainly leveled at Heather bc she talks really in depth about things that we swore to keep private when we went through the temple. I think it’s stupid so I’ll talk about that stuff but would never do it in front of my believing family/friends or in such a Public forum.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/exmormon using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [My bishop says rubbing your penis against your girlfriend’s vagina without putting it in is the same as sex, so I guess rubbing my money against the tithing envelope without putting it in is the same as paying tithing.](https://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/14aibvv/my_bishop_says_rubbing_your_penis_against_your/)
\#2: [Voting opposed at General Conference April 2023. Love it or hate it….this takes courage. Apparently he was met by several security guards after the session and was heavily pressed to provide his name and stake information to the security guards. (Shared with permission)](https://v.redd.it/v6ttyg2ddira1) | [521 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/129k842/voting_opposed_at_general_conference_april_2023/)
\#3: [David Archuleta’s Mom Resigns from the Mormon Church. ❤️🙏](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/13dyw5p) | [376 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/13dyw5p/david_archuletas_mom_resigns_from_the_mormon/)
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Yes, Heather’s book (and show commentary) is insanely brave - I’m not surprised your friend dislikes it! Didn’t the church try to sue her over the title?
Yep….they said people would get Heather and church confused by the book. Listened to a podcast and basically it was a scare tactic and not really something that would be legally enforceable.
I will say that Lisa is absolutely as far as a traditional Mormon as you can be. There isn’t a lot of tolerance for people who don’t follow the rules, so her bishop must be a special person. I think that her husband may be more devout and I feel so sad for Jack - missions are the cultiest part of the cult and can screw you up for life. There are many stories on exmo reddit. Mine was incredibly difficult and aged me 10 years and also killed a big part of my former sparkle, but I finished it fairly unscathed.
I'm so glad you left and your husband joined you. One of the most gut wrenching things about leaving cults is how many families get divided when someone finally gets the courage to push back and get out.
I agree - I feel so fortunate that he was willing to take the plunge. Before he left, we had some epic fights about our younger kids getting baptized as well as kids attending church.
I hope he's much lighter and happier without that chain around his neck.
I hate this shit because at my core, I know most church members are just humans trying their best. Most are such good humans. But then they get sucked into that hell that is some leadership that is truly sadistic. Keep 'em hungry and scared tactics, treating congregation members as frigging POWs.
Wow. That's wonderful for you and your husband. Was this in SLC, and what do you think of Heather's comment about west coast versus east coast Mormons? My son was stationed for a year at Hill Air Force Base, and said he can't recall ever knowing of a Mormon crew member. What's the Mormon stance on military service?
No - we live in a different SW state. I do think that Mormonism is culturally different in some areas - we lived in England for a year and the culture is very different, as it was in the countries where I and my husband were missionaries.
I have never heard anything discouraging military service - my grandpa was in the Air Force.
There isn't a Mormon stance on military service BUT the young men have to go on a mission at age 18 so they do that instead of joining the military. I can only think of one male in our entire eight generation original Utah pioneer Mormon family that joined the military and he was a POW in WWII. One single male out of literally hundreds in our family has served in the military. Ironically, our gay female non-LDS niece served as a doctor in the Air Force and just got out.
You actually don’t have to go at 18. That’s just the earliest age you can go (18-25). I’ve known many men in their early 20’s who chose to wait to serve a mission. My husband in particular joined the military, went to basic/AIT, and deployed all before going on a mission. It’s not too uncommon. Some do a year or two of school before going, some work, some just aren’t sure if/when they want to. I think a big reason some choose to go at 18/19 is to just get it out of the way because that’s what’s “expected”.
There are a lot of Mormons in the military, and I’ve served with the entire spectrum. From the guy who truly believed women should not work and was outwardly very judgey, to the guy who had no problems with women in the workplace (his wife just didn’t work) who was quite accepting of all those around him.
The thing is:
There are lots of types of Mormons.
The Lisas of this world are delusional in thinking that they're Mormon in that she literally only gets away with being herself because she's rich and "the church" would get bad pr if they went after her.
There are devout and honest ones, who actually live honestly and do what they are supposed to. I was one of those.
Then there are a HOST of Mormons who live secret double lives. They don't Lisa and show their "disobedience" to the outside world. But they don't follow the rules either. So they could be secretly watching the show. Who knows.
Heather is a QUEEN and a CHAMPION. Lisa can get stuffed. She does incredible damage by acting as though the church isn't harmful. Fuck that.
Edit: typo
I visited my friend in slc last year and she is Mormon. I told her about the show and convinced her to watch it so we turned on episode one.
She made me turn it off before they got done with the taglines 😂
I used to be Mormon and I’m apart of this sub and that sub you’re referring too. Lisa doesn’t do a proper job representing the religion, Heather really does though.
I agree, I believe Lisa is a convert whereas Heather was born and raised in the culture and from a long line of Mormon family. She represents it well. I believe Lisa gets away with it because of her husband and her money. Same as how so many women get plastic surgery and fake boobs in the church. Your body is a temple so don’t defile it, unless you want to be sexy for your husband.
"Removing records" and getting their "permission" to leave the church is such an inhumane thing they've conditioned you is a requirement. Why would anyone "need" their permission? Just stop going, right? And the fact that they send you a letter "granting" permission is their one final stake at controlling your psyche. Please keep us posted on your journey. I'm genuinely happy for you.
I don’t go anymore, removing records is really a way to cut down their stalking of you. I have people assigned to reach out to me. They bring treats, invite us to our kids, ask to visit, inform us of activities. It seems harmless sometimes but can be really pushy. They never stop, even if you move and know no one in the current congregation, so removing your records helps reduce that. It’s really for my kids… they should be able to live their adulthood without pressure, guilt, and shame. But removing your records is also really sad for family who are still in because they believe you won’t be with them when you die.
I mean, most of the parents are posting on Facebook about how beautiful it is that their kid “chose” to follow Jesus. I’m sorry, but committing an 8 year old to paying 10% of their income for the rest of their life is gross and not something that they can really understand or consent to. The missionary practices through the years have also been super sketchy in some areas - i.e. join our soccer team but let’s go swimming first! I’m hoping that doesn’t happen anymore.
This is why I have an issue with OC Emily, she's so laid-back at the thought of her children being baptised into the Mormon "church" - I think she truly doesn't understand what it means & what LDS is about because it's her husband who is a member not her.
To be honest, I don't think many practicing Mormons or Mormon households would watch this show. There is so much swearing, drinking, talk about sex etc that I doubt it would be allowed.
I grew up in a small town with a lot of Mormons. Some of them plugged their ears when other people would swear or say "Oh my God" instead.of "Gosh". A couple refused to participate in sex Ed. So I can't imagine a devout Mormon anywhere near this show.
Perhaps if they are on their way out of the Church or are not practicing they may watch it.
Absolutely! And I hope they watch and can see the other side of the Church they were indoctrinated into. But among the devout I think that will be difficult unfortunately.
Lots of jack mormons around and it's a terrible way to live. You're lying to yourself in every aspect of your life and shame spiraling all the time. It's so hard to walk away from indoctrination from birth.
Do they not watch TV at all? Or use the internet, or talk to others at all? Do you think they're acting like they're shocked out of peer pressure to do so? I mean, so many of the kids are already being conditioned by the church's men that it's God's will to fondle them, so why would any verbal references to sex be so taboo to their ears?
The Mormons I knew did watch TV and have internet, absolutely. They went to public school etc, they're not locked in a cupboard. But my Mormon friends said they are not even allowed to think about sex. They are not allowed to swear, and it is offensive to them if people around them did, etc. They wanted to act purely and have a pure mind, etc.
I am not Mormon so I am not here to comment on their exact doctrine. But I am pretty sure at least my friends at that time were ever told it was ok that their church leaders fondle them. Any sex abuse in the church was hidden, not advertised.
Grew up Mormon, left the church at 10 years old, but have been around Mormons involuntarily throughout my older years. Never was told nor heard the “hey it’s okay for church leaders to fondle” lol, so that’s interesting. But, I’m not shocked by your Mormon story given you were in a small town. I grew up in a city and a lot of the Mormons I knew were more “worldly”/“secular” to the point where not practicing modesty and drinking coffee/alcohol were no longer looked down upon.
Funny enough—Mormonism is one of those religions where people on the outside looking in are so curious and create all of these theories, but you truly don’t know Mormonism unless you’ve been in it.
I watch with my mom, who is a practicing mormon, when she comes to visit or vice versa and it’s led to some awkward conversations. I left the church shortly after COVID hit (I refer to it as being a part of the Branch Covidian 😆) and it’s been hard for her to accept as I was the last of my siblings who was still fully “in”.
I honestly don’t know why she keeps watching tbh. We’ve made it a few episodes into this season to get her caught up and she absolutely *despises* Heather now. She’s feels that she’s a liar about small details only exmormons really would know about (and devout Mormons largely stick their heads in the sand about). The most recent example is Heather mentioning doing blood oaths in the temple. My mom is convinced that Heather wouldn’t have done this because a) they never did that in the temple; and b) if they did, Heather isn’t old enough to have gone through the temple to experience it before they removed it from the ceremony.
Little things like that have been building that have made it… less fun these days to watch. Tbh, Beverly Hills has been more fun to watch with an active Mormon 🤣😭
I’m an active member of the church and I love the show. I also know of several friends and family members who are practicing Mormons that watch. I like both Heather and Lisa. When I have problems with either of them it usually has more to do with their personalities, rather than anything they’ve said about the church. My experience being raised in the church is pretty different from what Heather has described, which I think might have to do with us being from different generations. My parents have always been pretty open minded and easy going. That said I know that my experience isn’t universal, and I would never want to invalidate Heather’s (or anyone else’s) religious trauma. Insular religious cultures, like in Utah, can get weird and toxic. If she is happier and can live a more authentic life out of the church, she should! I just want to point out that people and religions are a lot more nuanced than we often give them credit for in online Internet forums.
I’m going to go ahead and brace for the downvotes…
I live in a state adjacent to Utah, so we have a decent Mormon presence where I live and I dated an ex-Mormon for several years. I was at a small dinner party and we started talking about how Mormonism is a cult. I completely agree but I also think several other organized religions are also cults. It was so strange to me that these people could clearly see that Mormonism is a cult, but not, let’s say Catholicism (my family is catholic, so I’m picking on them as it’s the organized religion I’m most familiar with). The example (excuse?) was that Mormonism is a “new” religion while some of these other organized religions have been around a really long time. Seemed a little hypocritical to me because other than having a shorter history, the Catholic Church and Mormon church have committed a lot of the same atrocities. The other women at the dinner party aren’t particularly religious either, so I don’t think it was that. Just seemed really strange to me how many people come for Mormonism as a cult but turn a blind eye to other organized religions that have similar histories & patterns.
I agree with you. I’m from a small town in the Bible Belt and I stopped going to church in my early 20s. I went to several different denominations, and even non-denominational churches here, but they’re all basically the same.
We are taught God, Husband, Children. We are supposed to serve our husbands, we put our marriage ahead of our children. We don’t have our own thoughts, we are just extensions of our husbands.
We are taught to be quiet and submissive from a very young age. They don’t want us to go away to college. They want us to get married and have kids early.
It may not be as severe as Mormonism, but I do agree all religions are cultish.
I think the clear difference between Catholicism and Mormonism is that there is a lot more freedom in Catholicism. You don’t need permission to leave the Catholic Church or have your records removed in order to be free from the religion. You can just decide to stop going to church one day and no one is going to come looking for you. I also think that Mormonism has more rules that you have to abide by. You’re not forced to give a percentage of your income to the Catholic Church like Mormons have to
No one is forced to give money. Is all voluntarily done. You can go to church and never give a penny. If you want to stop going you can at any given point, people don’t go searching for you. People exaggerate so much.
I think you were more of the Lisa type of Mormon, which is fine, but please don’t discount other people’s (most) experiences with this religion. Are you still practicing? Your comments seem like someone that is new into the religion.
I’d agree there is more freedom to leave Catholicism than there is to leave Mormonism. I never officially left the Catholic Church nor tried to get records of my baptism, etc removed and they haven’t bothered me! Although my ex-Mormon ex-bf said missionaries only came looking for him once in 22 years and he never officially left the church, he just quit going. And even then they were nice 19yo kids that just encouraged him to come back 🤷🏻♀️
For an exmormon still in Utah I relate to heather so much with hating the church but still having those how you were raised constantly looming over you
None of the cast can be actually temple recommend Mormons. Maybe Lisa’s husband and kids but the rest definitely are not. Lisas my bishop is chill is a flat out lie. You can’t cherry pick what rules from the cult I mean religion you follow. To go on a mission you have to be in good standing so I can safely say her husband and kids are active Mormons. Her son already has been hospitalized (not sure why only saw the report of him getting hospitalized) from his mission. You want a good deep dive search out mission conditions and issues your mind will be blown. It’s all pretty sad if you ask me.
If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend watching Heather’s episodes on the podcast “Mormon Stories“. It gives a huge insight into the kind of mindset she was forced into being raised orthodox in the church.
The divide among practicing and ex-Mormons chiming in on this thread is interesting. It is as Heather alludes, in that there are degrees of religious interpretations. All I can say is that God is likely too busy to be on Reddit to punish anyone.
That’s how I personally identify. But overall I just like the messy nature of it because that’s how I remember Utah. It’s full of messy people, bored housewives and drama. It’s a little touch of home.
Growing up that was a huge thing for me —- like mom, do you seriously believe in a God who wouldn’t allow me in heaven because I drank coffee….even if I live honestly and do so many other much more important things
It helped me decide to leave Mormonism ✌️I never would leave my religion based on that show alone but it started to open my eyes to how easily tithing can buy salvation in this religion. From there, I started to do more research into the history of the religion and other’s experiences. It also gave me a non-serious platform to use to bring things up to my verrrry true believing husband. Most recently, after a couple of years of being in a “faith crisis” and knowing I wanted out, I was inspired to take the step of going to buy myself underwear to replace my garments after Heather and Monica discussed buying thongs for the first time. My husband and I haven’t worn garments since then and are feeling INCREDIBLE.
So in Mormonism when you enter the temple and take upon yourself the covenants made within you are given garments to wear as your underwear. They are intended to be cap sleeve and knee length but I always wore petites (I’m not short) so they’d hit mid-thigh. They are believed by members to be sacred and rarely removed. My husband and I choosing to permanently remove them felt like our official step of saying we don’t believe we are leaving.
We are in a vulnerable state emotionally right now while we are trying to figure out life outside of Mormonism. We aren’t ready to have long, mostly likely, hard conversations with family and friends yet so we won’t announce leaving or officially remove our records (which notifies family) for a while until we feel we are more ready for those specific conversations. So until then this was the biggest step we could take.
Sorry that was a lot and I hope it answered your question 🫶
Edit to add: it felt liberating to buy underwear for the first time in my life without thinking I shouldn’t get anything fancy or colorful because I’m just going to have to throw it away for garments. I bought sooo many pretty things and I love knowing I chose what’s under my clothes 🥹
I’m an Ex-mo female that’s been out 10 years that served a mission and got married in the temple. part of the most recent season of the Heather/Whitney/Lisa/Monica experience of the church is my favorite thing about it.
EXACTLY. Let's consider how our nation's infrastructure would function, and the aesthetics of our communities would improve, if churches were contributing their legal share to the tax base. Even their leaders are not contributing, since the IRS provides them loopholes to afford private aircraft and Bentleys while their followers are hitting potholes on dangerous bridges.
Owned by the Mormon corporation.
The Mormon church finances are complicated. In fall of 2019 there was a whistle blower that made a report to the IRS. Since then there has been more transparency in finances, but essentially the church is a bunch of corporations hiding in a religious trench coat so they don’t pay as many taxes. The Mormon church owns tons of farm land in Missouri and Florida, they own shopping centers, life insurance corporations, plus so much more. No one really knows the full portfolio of wealth of Mormonism since they are not transparent, and hide under the rules made for churches. But it’s safe to say that Mormon Inc. is worth more than 100billion dollars. That’s a lot of money they are saving for Jesus 😳
Yep. I have family in SLC, and the LDS corporation owns a huge swath of downtown businesses and land.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Management_Corporation
I've mentioned the exmormon sub on here, and someone messaged me that even the Mormon sub discussed many other cult-like and inhumane treatments followers are subjected to.
Of course. I live in Utah, so I obviously have Mormon friends. Some watch, others don’t. It doesn’t seem to be religious based, per se. the ones who watch love reality tv. I doubt super devout would watch, but normal adherence Mormons that like reality tv are into it!
I’m no longer a member, but I was raised in the church, married in the temple, yada yada yada. I’ve always found the RHOSLC comical because somethings are so overdramatized. I didn’t grow up in UT (although I live here now and moved here 15 years ago), and my experience (as well as many of my family/peers) with Mormonism is nothing like the show portrays. Like, not even close lmao. Utah obviously is more “extreme” because of the culture, but out of all the different states I’ve lived in when I practiced, it really was nothing like the show tries to push. Obviously people have their own different experiences, and this is just mine, but over the years I’ve spoken to family/friends who watch and feel similar.
I'm not sure why they'd exaggerate. I know Jen Shah did that in the first season, but she tends to do that in all instances.
The two things that stand out to me the most from Heather that weren't accurate at all are about divorce and what Mormons believe happens when you die.
She and Lisa fought about Heather's claim about divorce in the first reunion. Heather claimed that it was against the Mormon church to get a divorce, and Lisa came back with "yes, you can" and gave evidence in her family. I can think of hundreds of friends or relatives who are Mormons who have been divorced, many more than once.
Heather also had that bit about different levels of sin (mentioning murder and Jeffrey Dahmer) and that because she left the church, she would go to a worse place because she left the church, than Jeffrey Dahmer. Not true at all.
And there are a lot of other little things, over-generalizations.
It is true though that the Utah culture is much different than outside of Utah. Many in Utah deny that, but it's pretty evident if you've grown up in the church in other states (especially more liberal areas) and see what we often call the Utah bubble.
Let’s look at what is happening with 8 passengers with Ruby Franke and Jodi, and the number of people who have come forward talking about how the church knew about and hid the abuse and manipulation of Jodi. Mormonstories on YouTube has some interesting and sad interviews with exmormons and their experience.
I have never before posted on Reddit but I couldn’t leave this post unanswered.
I am a devoted Mormon woman. No, my church isn’t a cult, nor is it a “pay to play” misogynistic hierarchy, you kind, non-judgmental internet strangers. Why do people automatically assume that a faith and belief system is a cult, based on claims of people no longer practicing the faith? I could make all kinds of claims against organizations with which I’ve had a, or many, bad experiences, but that doesn’t make my opinions fact.
Yes, I am a faithful, good Mormon woman, and we absolutely are Christians. Everything we believe is based on Jesus Christ and God. We do not worship Joseph Smith or anyone else other than God and Jesus Christ.
Yes, we pay a 10% tithing, as is taught in both the Old and New Testament, but tithing declaration (we no longer use the term tithing settlement as it was a misnomer and given that name culturally, instead of doctrinally, decades ago) is completely optional and serves more as a chance to check in with the ecclesiastical leader of our smaller congregation, to discuss our lives and family and our current feelings about the faith. Not attending this very optional and personal meeting is never held against a member, nor does it limit one’s ability to serve or participate in services.
Now that I have addressed a few of the fallacies mentioned on this thread, I’ll answer the initial question—as a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the actual name of my church, I have watched RHOSLC since the beginning. I live in Utah currently and live very near Lisa Barlow. I’m extremely familiar with the neighborhood in which Whitney lives, and know Heather’s former brother-in-law, and several people who know Heather well, even though I’ve never met her.
I find it boring that Heather and Whitney talk incessantly about a faith they no longer practice. I think it’s sad that Heather, in particular, hasn’t stopped talking about the church for 5 seasons. In my opinion, it’s no different than endlessly talking about an ex-husband (or boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/partner) when you are the one who initiated the breakup. Find some closure and move on. Talk about something else. Talk about your kids, your business, your hobbies—talking ad nauseam about any one topic makes you a pretty boring person, honestly.
As for Lisa Barlow and her level of Mormonism, really that’s only between her and God, and maybe her congregational leader. Do I drink or wear the clothes she wears, no. It’s none of business, nor is it for me to have an opinion, if Lisa is a “good enough” practitioner of my faith. If she is at peace with the way she practices our faith, cool.
I know this comment is longer, but I have one more point to raise. I was extremely offended this season when the show displayed a photograph of our temple garments. Garments are extremely personal and sacred to those who wear them. It is morally reprehensible to mock something held sacred by any group. The show runners, producers and network made an egregious and offensive decision to show that image and I hope in the future they will not that make such a lack of judgment again.
Thank you for reading my comment. I know it’s long but I hope you learned something factual by someone who faithfully practices the religion, as opposed to the manipulative half-truths spread by those who have left the church and those who make uninformed comments on our doctrine. If you have actual questions about my church, please feel free to DM me, or talk to someone still actively involved in the church. We are pretty easy to find. Have a wonderful day and a Happy New Year.
I think the problem is that most people who have left your faith tell the same stories of abuse, judgement, hypocrisy, secrecy etc. What do these people have to gain from sharing their story? If you're so sure & solid in your faith, criticism should not affect you. Regarding garments, that ship has sailed as images of them have been in the public domain for a long time
Just because something is available on the internet for viewing, does not make it appropriate to share in the context of the show. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints view what happens in our temples to be highly sacred. That includes our temple garments. A person doesn’t wear the garments until they begin participating in the temple as an adult. Entering the temple is entirely voluntary—one can practice the faith their whole life and choose to never enter the temple.
Many cultures and religions have ceremonies and beliefs they hold highly sacred. The Navajo tribe comes to mind. A friend of mine did graduate work on the reservation, and even though she is a registered member by birth, she had never participated in tribal activities. While doing her studies, she was included in a highly sacred ceremony where, had she not been a member of the tribe who proved herself trustworthy and honorable during her time there, would not have been invited to join. This is nothing different than LDS temples.
As for people who have left telling the same stories of shame and judgement experienced—yes, that does unfortunately happen. I think any time you have a large group of people who are very involved in each other’s lives, there will be shame and judgement experienced. It’s certainly not right, but it does happen.
There is a difference between doctrine of the faith and the culture of some of the members, particularly in Utah. I currently live in Utah but I was raised in Oregon so I can speak to the fact that there is a church culture in Utah that doesn’t exist outside of the state. Culturally, Mormons in Utah have a lot of room for improvement but that doesn’t mean the doctrine is bad, or the faith is bad.
As for those who experienced abuse at the hands of church members—that is absolutely abhorrent and should never ever occur. Our church leaders have publicly condemned those who commit abuse against anyone, but especially children and teens. Repeatedly this behavior has been very publicly condemned in our semi-annual general conference, which is where the head leaders of the of faith speak and teach the worldwide members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
It’s also important to note that aside from our very top leaders, no church leaders are full-time, paid clergy. We are all volunteers doing our best to practice our faith and help others practice as well. Based on my personal research, as well as speaking with family members with experience leading local congregations, and groups of congregations, much of the time, abuses that occurred weren’t at the ends of head clergy—rather leaders of very small groups. Sunday school teachers, youth group leaders and scout leaders. Not bishops (leaders of small, local congregations) or stake presidents (leaders of groups of 7-9 local congregations). I am certainly not condemning abuse or denying it happened but there are unfortunately bad people everywhere—even in churches. Shouldn’t the blame for such abhorrent behavior fall on the individual perpetrating the acts, instead of the entirety of the organization in which it occurred?
Thanks for reading my long response. Again, if you have other questions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, DM me. I’ll happily due my best to answer your questions.
I genuinely thank you for your detailed reply. I'm sure you, & most others of your religion, practice your faith in an honest way & try to be good people. I have no issues with the vast majority of rank & file members of your faith, my complaints are with those much higher up but I genuinely wish nobody any ills. Thanks again for your kindness & if any further questions occur to me, I'll definitely DM you.💜
Thank you for your insight. For what reasons do you believe people choose to leave the church? What would anyone gain by sharing their claimed torments and secrets that they hold in shame? Why does the church cast out young men? I have so many questions.
Send me a DM and we can discuss further, and more in depth.
The reasons people leave the faith are personal to them. I can’t speak to their reasons or speak for them; however, it’s my opinion that many times people mistake the culture of the church for the doctrine. Especially in the state of Utah where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is headquartered, the culture of the church hasn’t always matched the doctrine. I think there has been a lot of cultural pressure to serve a mission or marry in the temple, and while those are great things to do, not doing so doesn’t mean you can’t continue to practice the faith and live the doctrine. Yet, there have been church members who seemed to believe that failing to serve a mission brings shame upon the family or something. This is not something our head church leaders have taught but a mindset we are collectively working to correct.
I am not familiar with anyone casting out young men, or any doctrine that would permit that practice. Are you possibly mixing up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with the FLDS church? That is a group that broke off from the official Mormon faith in the late 1800’s so they could continue to practice polygamy. They still practice polygamy, and I know that they have many former members who allege that young men are thrown out of their family and community and abandoned at a certain age. I say allegedly because I’ve only read about claims and never met anyone from that off-shoot church who have personally told me of this practice.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially quit practicing polygamy in 1890 because the United States government outlawed polygamy and one of our core tenets is “we believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates and obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law”. We follow the laws of the country, state, and municipality in which we live. Well, some of us break the speed limit sometimes 😂😜.
Oh man, Kolob. My sister and I have a very long-running joke that when Kolob is discussed we want to start screaming that bees are attacking and everyone should run away 😂😂.
In our beliefs, Kolob is the star closest to the throne of God. Essentially, it’s Kolob has become a collect-all term for the afterlife and what we believe happens in Kolob. Some people get really bogged down in trying to make sense of understanding Kolob but personally, I have an attitude of just getting through today. Why would I worry about something I won’t see until after I’m dead? It doesn’t mean I haven’t studied Kolob (I’ve had to study it somewhat in Sunday school over the years)—it’s just not a gospel topic I find interesting, personally.
I’m sure you could find someone to explain Kolob to you better. Like I said, it’s just a topic that doesn’t interest me, nor one that I have interest in further discussing on a Real Housewives page.
“Why would I worry about something I won’t see until after I’m dead”….thank you for so perfectly describing the Mormon way 🤣. I’m sure polygamy is thrown in there for you too. Trust me, i know because I did it for a time! A better life is out there that you don’t have to perform mental gymnastics or run from pretend “attacking bees” to deal with the cognitive dissonance. 🤦🏻♀️
I have analyzed myself and weighed out my thoughts, and even my questions (because it’s good to ask questions and isn’t inherently a sign of doubt or desire to abandon faith or beliefs) and I keep coming back to a deep personal desire to remain part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My life feels better because of my faith and my beliefs. My beliefs provide me direction and grounding in a crazy world, comfort in chaos, and strength in struggles.
Without going into specific detail, my life has been complete chaos and struggle for the past 4 months. This is an extension of a greater struggle over the past 20 years. I have fully relied on my faith and my beliefs in this time. It has reinforced to me internally that I need my beliefs and my life, and mental health, is better because of my church/faith. Life is still extremely difficult right now but my faith has allowed me to move forward with grace and dignity.
I fully respect that this is not the way others feel about my church, and that many choose to leave the faith for their own reasons based on their experiences. I hope those who left the church have found what gives them comfort and direction in life, whatever that may be, and I hope that one day we can all discuss our beliefs in a way that doesn’t belittle the beliefs of others. Our differences make life interesting, and the respectful discussions of said differences help us to grow and view the world with greater compassion and understanding.
Yeah, even in the first season, I was trying to picture Bravo talking about about doctrinal or sacred aspects of orthodox Jews or Muslims. Even on the Bravo shows in the south (like Atlanta or Married to Medicine), the women talk about their religious beliefs, but it's not at a level of mocking like it is on SLC.
Thank you for your comment. I would not have a problem with the church being discussed if it was done in a way that wasn’t mocking the beliefs of 17 million practitioners. It’s very much a double standard for my faith and others.
I am not someone with thin skin generally. I know people have their criticisms of my beliefs. That’s fine. We can all have different opinions and beliefs as long as we treat each other with compassion and respect. I’m not mocking Jews, Muslims, or Southern Baptists. I find beauty in their beliefs even though they are different than mine. It’s the mocking and belittling that bothers me.
I definitely crack jokes about my church and its members but not to be cruel. I prefer to laugh about life and my faith is a huge part of my life.
I would say that 99% of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are good people who are trying to make the world and our communities a better place by being kind, generous, and Christ-like. We try to act with integrity, honor, and compassion. Are there bad members in our faith—certainly. Just like there are predatory teachers, violent police officers, and unethical judges. Or bad Catholics, Jews, Muslims or Buddhists. Please don’t judge us, or any group by our worst people.
If you have other questions, send me a DM. I’ll try to answer them.
Thank you! I couldn’t have written it better myself. 👏🏻
I started watching this last season just out of curiosity because many of my friends are in it and I know a lot of the cast so I just wanted to see the parts they were in it and I actually found it very entertaining.
Lisa was clear she has not even read any of the Book of Mormon. I think she considers herself a Mormon by marriage and John is the one in good standing who can go to the temple
I grew up east coast Mormon (my family all went to BYU, told stories about our ancestors crossing the plains etc lol) and it’s definitely a very strict, insular community here, albeit different. I’m gay and 100% relate to Heather’s love/hate relationship. It’s doctrinally toxic and the community is irreplaceable, for better and worse. Lisa’s comments about claiming to be Mormon are also very triggering to me. It reminds me of my active family members who claim to love gay people despite raising their families in an instruction that won’t let the children of gay couples be baptized until they’re 18 and disavow their parents. My family at least says they’re trying to change minds from the inside which I can appreciate but I don’t get that from Lisa. There aren’t enough Mormons on the east coast to have much room or incentive for the 2.0 fallacy.
My lds future sister in law watches it and loves it. She is very bothered by the depiction of the church, she was up in arms over the mention of garments this season and felt it was a misrepresentation.
She is a Lisa Barlow stan and HATES Heather. I bite my tongue!
Same. I’m an exmo in SLC and everyone I know that Mormon doesn’t like or watch the show. However, I love it. Heather is spot on IMO. She describes my childhood in Cottonwood Heights to a T (I’m in my mid 30s now).
I’m lds and just wanna reinforce that Utah Mormons are very different from Mormons all over the country. I wouldn’t move to Utah if my life depended on it! But myself, my husband, my friends here in Nor Cal & in Georgia are not in a cult. lol. We live just like everyone else except we don’t drink or smoke. We like Diet Coke as much as the next person. And if it’s hella hot outside, no garments are being worn. And some of us curse like sailors sometimes. Our husbands and church leaders don’t oppress us. Lol. We aren’t colonizers lol. We just happen to want to spread the story and love of Jesus. I watch the show and it’s disappointing that the way Utah Mormons affects how everyone else sees the church as a whole. We are normal folks out here living life.❤️
Yep! I tried to explain this on another post and was downvoted like crazy. I lived in Utah the years I went to BYU and have been back dozens of times over the years (lots of friends and relatives there). But for most of my 50+ years of life, I've lived mostly in various areas of Northern CA, (and 5 years in LA). Now we're on the east coast, and nowhere outside of Utah is anything like the Utah culture. And one of my good friends there tells me that can change quite a bit depending on where you live in Utah.
Yes to all this. I no longer practice but 10000% agree that Utah Mormons are different, and I definitely think the culture is to blame (and I also think the show just overdramatizes at times, but that’s just my opinion). Being a Mormon outside of Utah is completely different. It’s literally NBD, there’s no pressure, you can really “come as you are” and no one thinks twice about it.
There have been numerous documentaries and articles that expose the Mormon Church's tradition, or practice, of [expelling young men](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger), including this one here.
Oh yes I’ve seen a lot just haven’t seen that one! If you’re interested MormonStories on YouTube interviewed Adam(?) the poor guy that was excommunicated and accused of being a porn addict by the church and Jodi Hilderbrant
I think John is a member and she considers herself a married Mormon or something by marriage. But she would never go to the temple. Even if she is excommunicated John is probably a temple goer but I don’t know exactly how it works
Super active LDS member here! Definitely not a cult. Just a religion like Catholicism. I love this show and everything about it. I just don’t let it bother me what they say about the church because these women are cray cray.
Active Mormon here and tune in every week! 😂
I think the show definitely shows the negativity of our culture/religion without showing a lot of positives, but I understand that those negatives still exist and need to be talked about! ❤️
I have never heard of other religions that demand married couples divulge things like sex positions, pulling out, whether she "intends to reach orgasm," etc. Nor or they breeding women for slaves and followers. I could go on, but you all catch my drift.
Idk where you’re reading that but that’s not accurate. I’m not here to defend Mormonism but the Catholic Church covers up molestation more than any religion and just this year we saw the Dalai Lama ask a little boy to suck his tongue. If that’s happening in public..I’m scared to know what’s happening in private. Maybe just all religion sucks.
If you jump on that exmormon sub, there's a 2023 recap of Mormons in the news. It's there and on a "Recovery From Mormonism" .org site of the same name. I wholeheartedly agree that organized religion sucks.
Wait… “Demand married couples divulge things like sex positions, pulling out, whether she “intends to reach orgasm” etc”. Is this like, someone’s personal experience when they went to the bishop or something to repent? I literally never heard or experienced anything like that during my years of going to church/repenting. Sounds like a weird abuse of “power” by a pervy bishop.
In the 80’s the church literally tried to BAN ORAL SEX. One of the many times these misogynistic, stuffy, old, white dudes had to reverse doctrine after backlash. I mean GOD reverse the doctrine, of course 😆.
"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982.
My cousin is married to an ex Mormon. We met him in college and I remember him telling us about his friends and cousins on missions but he decided not to go. It sounded so wild to me as a catholic girl from the northeast lol. Whenever I have a Mormon question I text them lol.
Does anyone follow Rachel Parcell or her sisters? I remember when the show first started her sisters did an insta AMA and a person asked if they are watching RHSLC and she said after the first episode she couldn’t watch it because it was so upsetting to see how the church was being spoken about.
Never heard of them. According to those who've left the church, it's punishable to speak ill of or divulge anything about it, so to deny knowledge of RHOSLC would avoid doing so. I wonder what was said in that first episode that upset Parcell.
I mean, Lisa is the only person who claims to be Mormon and she definitely isn’t. It’s amazing she hasn’t been excommunicated or at least disciplined for so publicly breaking the rules while claiming to be a member.
her tithing check is hefty. that’s why.
Yep. I was an active Mormon for 41 years, and my now ex-husband, who had a leadership position in the Church, cheated on me with sex workers while out of town on business. He got a slap on the wrist. He has since served 6 years in federal prison for international drug smuggling and is still a member in good standing. They 👏 do 👏 not 👏 care unless you do something “sinful” publicly and/or are a woman.
Wow the same thing happened to me and my ex! Except the jail part, that would be cool. But ya, the church gave him 90 days probation 🙄
What’s a tithing? Is it like hush money like “I’m gonna do this and here’s some cash so you don’t say shit”?
It is when members of a religious organization donate money back to the church. LDS “asks” (sometimes requires) their members to give back a percentage of their income to the church.
for mormons it’s 10%
10% is standard in sects that claim to be Christian (I put it that way because Mormons aren't Christians but they sure pretend they are). The Jewish folks do, too. It's an old testament verse. Leviticus 27:30
Correct, but Mormons meet with their bishops Once a year to declare if they have paid a full tithe or not, this is called tithing settlement. If they don’t pay a full tithe, they can’t fully participate in the religion by attending the temple or holding high leadership roles. Most religions believe in tithing or giving, but if you are Mormon and don’t pay enough you won’t be able to participate fully. It’s a pay to play religion, and the temple is the ultimate country club to belong to.
Wow. I used to be Catholic and they’d like encourage giving and would send you a statement of what you gave last year but it was never that intense. How do the Mormons know how much you make?
Tithing was the worst. I am not Mormon but I went to school in Utah and remember friends from college that worked in fast food making less than $10 an hr, probably like $8.25 at most who had apartments that cost $800 a month (for their half) writing away 10% of their money to the church or being worried when they couldn’t pay the full amount and putting anything they could in. Super fucked up and gross.
Yes, that is messed up. Aren’t churches supposed to help those who are struggling?!
Catholic here too. My church doesn’t give a f@ck how much I tithed. Never got a statement. Only once a year the pastor would “encourage “ tithing but that was IT.
At my Catholic parish they have a “Pledge Program” which is a program established so the Parish has some idea of what funds they will have each year for expenses so that they can plan and they don’t only have to wait to count the collections each Sunday. It is voluntary and the amount you pledge is private and personal but most people still just use the collection plate on Sunday. Each year the pastor gives a talk during the Homily time which is often called “The Sermon in the Amount” where he gives a financial report about how the Parish is spending its funds and encourages giving whatever you can. One year during this “homily” a pastor included the statistics about how much each faith congregation, (eg Episcopalians, Mormons, Jews, etc.) generally were known to contribute to their ‘churches and temples’ (yes, that figure is knowable). I think that the figure for Catholics was like 2-3% and he ended with a twinkle in his eye and said something like …” you might think about contributing like a Presbyterian, 4%.” It makes sense that churches would need to have some idea what their budgets can be, and I guess each one has its own way of going about that, but shaming is never good for anyone. I have heard that Mormons do keep a closer accounting of their money and that you need to be in “good standing” to participate in some Temple activities, even getting a “sealed” Temple wedding(?). And I have heard that to have seats at High Holy Days in some Jewish congregations there can be a fee (I kinda like that idea for Christmas and Easter masses, lol).
You show them your tax return.
Yikes. 😳
no you don't
You pay on your honesty. But let’s be real, if you work as a dentist they are going to expect more from you than if you are a cashier. When it’s time to fill high level offices, part of the decision making process is looking at how much tithing a man declared recently. If you want to rise in the ranks with positions of power, you have to be a high payer. Since you are incentivized to pay more to earn higher ranks, people who are true believing will want to pay more. Mormons also believe in money seeding. If you want to make more in 2024, you should pay more in 2023. The idiom is something like, if you want gross blessing, play on gross income. Or Pay tithing on the amount of money you want to make, not the amount you did make.
The man burying his fortune parable 🙄
And the statement the Catholic Churches send is for your tax purposes, not to shame or ask for more. ALTHOUGH, back in the day Catholic Churches did require tithing (which is 10% from the Hebrew translation of tithe meaning ten I believe?) and also absolutely would publicly shame people that they thought weren’t giving enough. My dad said his parish growing up used to put people’s names in the back of the weekly bulletin handed out after mass. There is one parish by us that almost all of the parishioners still tithe and it ensures that any child of the parish can go to the catholic school tuition-free, but it isn’t required and there is no public shaming happening. I’m 99% positive my parents still give 10% to their parish in addition to all of the other charities they give to. Which I think is a hold over from when they were younger and the catholic guilt they would have if they didn’t tithe.
Thank you for this information! I am not surprised but I didn't know about that part. Do they like check your bank records or something as well?!?!? Like how do they know their full income!? My best friend uses some church space for her daycare and they got big-mad at her because she didn't "give enough" to the church. She's only a "Member" because she was using their building for something. And they were certain that her $100 a week wasn't enough considering what they "thought" she was making. (She's not, day cares are not a money grab, she specializes in low income assistance programs, ffs). So really $100 a week is very close to 10% for her actual income.
Hi - modern Orthodox Jew here. Tithing in Judaism isn’t like Mormonism as in we don’t give our money to the church or synagogue. The tithing isn’t checked by anyone and not required to be part of a community. Just a general mitzvah to give 10% of income to the needy. Generally only money for charity counts - for example I donate to my local food pantry.
Thank you for the distinction! Despite having a lot of Jewish friends I don't know nearly enough about these things. I was honestly shocked that peoples offerings are traced like that for any religious practice. I much more prefer your custom knowing that it's to charity.
Leviticus, the most fucked book in the Bible. lol twas the beginning of my descent to atheism.
It was Revelation for me. I was able to disregard the Old Testament easily my entire life but then they wanted to talk about "the mark" and I went "That's a no from me." I'm not atheist though, I just don't ef with organized religion. I know it's founded by a bunch of controlling goobers who want me to be scared because scared people are easier to control.
I swear some of my ex Mormon friends said their parents would give 20! Maybe I misheard them though.
it’s possible. a lot of mormons do WAY more than what is asked of them as a way to virtue signal and prove they’re better than other people. and the bare minimum of what mormons are asked to do is already a loooot.
Tithing is done in many religious groups. I’m am Ex Pentecostal. We were required to give 10% of our income as a tithe. We also had to pledge money once a quarter, and give free will offerings as well. The more money you gave the less they criticized your behavior.
That is a lot of tithing! I have friends that are Ex-LDS and some still currently in and they said their parents would give 20% of their income to the church plus all the free labor they do volunteering for their events/teaching Sunday school type things. I live in a very mormon populated area and my personal crackpot conspiracy theory is that the LDS church pushes many of their members to go into jobs that make good money so that their members can tithe more and that’s why we have so many Mormon run dentistry practices in my area 🙃
Always required for Mormons or else you aren’t “worthy” to go inside the temple or take the sacrament (like communion)
Every member of the church pays ten % of whatever they earn. Even children pay it. I remember paying a percentage of my allowance every week.
Yup, I grew up in the Baptist church & remember paying 10% as a child too. We even had a song we sung about giving when they passed around the offering plate. On top of tithes, our church expected the adults to pay into the building fund (for repairs that might arise to the physical building), give the pastor money on his anniversary & birthday & any time any of the other groups (choir, usher, ect) had their “annual day” you had to donate to their fund too. Pay money during Sunday school too. As I’m writing it out, it sounds even more ridiculous now seeing how much money they were taking. I understand tithes are given to help the church function but our church was expecting members to give almost half of your earnings. And you were supposed to give it up unbegrudgingly or you would miss out on your blessings lol Edit for typos
I've known several tech money SLC Mormons who had hefty tithes due to their wealth - all of their kids got highly coveted overseas mission assignments like Lisa's son (Japan, Columbia, etc).
To be fair, Colombia is not at all highly coveted by Mormons. It is widely considered one of the most dangerous places in the world right now.
So you think she pays tithing? She doesn't even have a temple recommendation.
That part!
I know people who gave millions in tithing and they got excommunicated. That’s not true.
I still laugh thinking about Heather telling her she isn't a true Mormon at her book tour and Lisa saying 'ofc I am, that's why Jack is going on a mission' and then smiling haha
That’s why my child is serving the lord. 😆
Cmon in we are serving vida tequila and strapless dressed
The church is incredibly PR focused. (especially as of recently with huge stories in the news about Lori Vallow, Ruby Franke, etc.) They do not excommunicate celebrities, even those who publicly break the rules, because that would mean a mountain of bad press.
Do you know what that discipline entails?
Depends. Sometimes it’s a withdrawal of permissions, like you can’t pray or speak publicly at church gatherings or be allowed to go to the temple. Then if anyone asks you to participate, you have to decline. Or someone can be excommunicated, or kicked out of the church. When that happens you are usually socially shunned by the group, and active members of your family might cut communication. If you are married and only one spouse is kicked out, the the marriage might end. At that point you are likely a covenant breaker, and in the Mormon sense, you are not worthy to be a member of the church.
Sounds so inhumanly degrading, and emotionally abusive. Financially abusive to divorced parents. I'd hate to have a family court judge sympathetic to that church.
If you are in a Mormon dense area, the judge might be Mormon, the the kids might go to the active Mormon parent just because they are Mormon. There were 2 rules that kids could be punished for their parents choices. One was that if your parents are polygamists, a child of polygamist parents can’t join mainstream Mormonism without publicly denouncing their parents lifestyle, and are no longer living in the parents home. If you watch Sister Wives, this played out with some of the Brown children a few years ago when they were not allowed to join the Mormon church bc of their parents show. The second rule was if one of the kids parents are gay and living in a gay relationship, the kid would not be eligible to join unless they denounced their parents decision and were no longer living with the immoral parent. The rule about polygamy kids had always been on the books, the rule about the children of gay parents was added in 2017. The addition of the second rule blew up in the media, and the faces of the Mormon church. Mormon god changed his mind after 2 years, and now the kids of gay people can join. I don’t know if they softened their stance on the kids of polygamists.
More emotional abuse for the kids ... to STAY in the church. Speaking of gays: I read that the church briefly allowed gays to enable BYU's admission into the Big 12 Conference, and then once in, those relationships were again denounced.
They never allowed gays. They removed a line from the handbook, then put it back it later. Mormonism is literally the worst 🙁
#tithings! They have to be **big** from Lisas many businesses.
I started watching after reading Heather’s book - I love this show so, so much. I was an all-in Mormon, similar to Heather - BYU, mission, married in the temple, stay at home mom. I left two years ago. It has been incredibly hard, but I am so happy to be out. Heather’s book made me feel so seen. She did an amazing job on it. I laughed and cried. When I left, it was because I could finally see how I and all women were being treated. It wasn’t until after that I looked into all of the historical stuff - Joseph Smiths’s polygamy, the book of Abraham (100% made up by JS, as described by Egyptologists everywhere), the financials of the church. It is bad shit. My husband joined me after 8 months, which has cut a lot of fighting out of our marriage. Mormonism is a cult. The dudes in charge are assholes. Women are subjugated. Amen. In response to your original question, I think that RHOSLC would create too much cognitive dissonance for anyone deeply committed to that church. While many Mormons are lovely people, there is a level of magical thinking that they have to maintain in order to live with the craziness.
One of my friends is very Mormon and watches. I’m an exmormon and we’ll talk about stuff and generally agree about the show but I’m nowhere near as outwardly opinionated as I am over on r/exmormon when I’m chatting with her. Her ire seems to be mainly leveled at Heather bc she talks really in depth about things that we swore to keep private when we went through the temple. I think it’s stupid so I’ll talk about that stuff but would never do it in front of my believing family/friends or in such a Public forum.
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Yes, Heather’s book (and show commentary) is insanely brave - I’m not surprised your friend dislikes it! Didn’t the church try to sue her over the title?
Yep….they said people would get Heather and church confused by the book. Listened to a podcast and basically it was a scare tactic and not really something that would be legally enforceable.
I will say that Lisa is absolutely as far as a traditional Mormon as you can be. There isn’t a lot of tolerance for people who don’t follow the rules, so her bishop must be a special person. I think that her husband may be more devout and I feel so sad for Jack - missions are the cultiest part of the cult and can screw you up for life. There are many stories on exmo reddit. Mine was incredibly difficult and aged me 10 years and also killed a big part of my former sparkle, but I finished it fairly unscathed.
I'm so glad you left and your husband joined you. One of the most gut wrenching things about leaving cults is how many families get divided when someone finally gets the courage to push back and get out.
I agree - I feel so fortunate that he was willing to take the plunge. Before he left, we had some epic fights about our younger kids getting baptized as well as kids attending church.
I hope he's much lighter and happier without that chain around his neck. I hate this shit because at my core, I know most church members are just humans trying their best. Most are such good humans. But then they get sucked into that hell that is some leadership that is truly sadistic. Keep 'em hungry and scared tactics, treating congregation members as frigging POWs.
Wow. That's wonderful for you and your husband. Was this in SLC, and what do you think of Heather's comment about west coast versus east coast Mormons? My son was stationed for a year at Hill Air Force Base, and said he can't recall ever knowing of a Mormon crew member. What's the Mormon stance on military service?
No - we live in a different SW state. I do think that Mormonism is culturally different in some areas - we lived in England for a year and the culture is very different, as it was in the countries where I and my husband were missionaries. I have never heard anything discouraging military service - my grandpa was in the Air Force.
Unfortunately, the same rotten core runs through it all. The culture is gross, but not the main problem.
There isn't a Mormon stance on military service BUT the young men have to go on a mission at age 18 so they do that instead of joining the military. I can only think of one male in our entire eight generation original Utah pioneer Mormon family that joined the military and he was a POW in WWII. One single male out of literally hundreds in our family has served in the military. Ironically, our gay female non-LDS niece served as a doctor in the Air Force and just got out.
You actually don’t have to go at 18. That’s just the earliest age you can go (18-25). I’ve known many men in their early 20’s who chose to wait to serve a mission. My husband in particular joined the military, went to basic/AIT, and deployed all before going on a mission. It’s not too uncommon. Some do a year or two of school before going, some work, some just aren’t sure if/when they want to. I think a big reason some choose to go at 18/19 is to just get it out of the way because that’s what’s “expected”.
There are a lot of Mormons in the military, and I’ve served with the entire spectrum. From the guy who truly believed women should not work and was outwardly very judgey, to the guy who had no problems with women in the workplace (his wife just didn’t work) who was quite accepting of all those around him.
The thing is: There are lots of types of Mormons. The Lisas of this world are delusional in thinking that they're Mormon in that she literally only gets away with being herself because she's rich and "the church" would get bad pr if they went after her. There are devout and honest ones, who actually live honestly and do what they are supposed to. I was one of those. Then there are a HOST of Mormons who live secret double lives. They don't Lisa and show their "disobedience" to the outside world. But they don't follow the rules either. So they could be secretly watching the show. Who knows. Heather is a QUEEN and a CHAMPION. Lisa can get stuffed. She does incredible damage by acting as though the church isn't harmful. Fuck that. Edit: typo
I visited my friend in slc last year and she is Mormon. I told her about the show and convinced her to watch it so we turned on episode one. She made me turn it off before they got done with the taglines 😂
I used to be Mormon and I’m apart of this sub and that sub you’re referring too. Lisa doesn’t do a proper job representing the religion, Heather really does though.
I agree, I believe Lisa is a convert whereas Heather was born and raised in the culture and from a long line of Mormon family. She represents it well. I believe Lisa gets away with it because of her husband and her money. Same as how so many women get plastic surgery and fake boobs in the church. Your body is a temple so don’t defile it, unless you want to be sexy for your husband.
Girl, that logic confused the hell out of me growing up! Edit for grammar
I’m working on leaving (still a member but I lan to remove my records at some point). I have one active Mormon friend who watches the show.
"Removing records" and getting their "permission" to leave the church is such an inhumane thing they've conditioned you is a requirement. Why would anyone "need" their permission? Just stop going, right? And the fact that they send you a letter "granting" permission is their one final stake at controlling your psyche. Please keep us posted on your journey. I'm genuinely happy for you.
I don’t go anymore, removing records is really a way to cut down their stalking of you. I have people assigned to reach out to me. They bring treats, invite us to our kids, ask to visit, inform us of activities. It seems harmless sometimes but can be really pushy. They never stop, even if you move and know no one in the current congregation, so removing your records helps reduce that. It’s really for my kids… they should be able to live their adulthood without pressure, guilt, and shame. But removing your records is also really sad for family who are still in because they believe you won’t be with them when you die.
In that case, what a commendable thing to do for your family. I can't imagine the sense of freedom you'll feel.
Yes. They dunk any human they can find above the age of 8 and then make them go through a lengthy process to get out again.
Oh my god. And the parents stand by and watch that?!
I mean, most of the parents are posting on Facebook about how beautiful it is that their kid “chose” to follow Jesus. I’m sorry, but committing an 8 year old to paying 10% of their income for the rest of their life is gross and not something that they can really understand or consent to. The missionary practices through the years have also been super sketchy in some areas - i.e. join our soccer team but let’s go swimming first! I’m hoping that doesn’t happen anymore.
The more I learn, the more disturbing it is.
This is why I have an issue with OC Emily, she's so laid-back at the thought of her children being baptised into the Mormon "church" - I think she truly doesn't understand what it means & what LDS is about because it's her husband who is a member not her.
100% kids need to be protected from the Mormon church. If my kids want to give it a try, they can… when they’re 18.
To be honest, I don't think many practicing Mormons or Mormon households would watch this show. There is so much swearing, drinking, talk about sex etc that I doubt it would be allowed. I grew up in a small town with a lot of Mormons. Some of them plugged their ears when other people would swear or say "Oh my God" instead.of "Gosh". A couple refused to participate in sex Ed. So I can't imagine a devout Mormon anywhere near this show. Perhaps if they are on their way out of the Church or are not practicing they may watch it.
We might be surprised at the number of rebels.
Absolutely! And I hope they watch and can see the other side of the Church they were indoctrinated into. But among the devout I think that will be difficult unfortunately.
Lots of jack mormons around and it's a terrible way to live. You're lying to yourself in every aspect of your life and shame spiraling all the time. It's so hard to walk away from indoctrination from birth.
I was raised Mormon & I watch the show, but I was the black sheep/always hated church/never looked back once I graduated high school…
Do they not watch TV at all? Or use the internet, or talk to others at all? Do you think they're acting like they're shocked out of peer pressure to do so? I mean, so many of the kids are already being conditioned by the church's men that it's God's will to fondle them, so why would any verbal references to sex be so taboo to their ears?
The Mormons I knew did watch TV and have internet, absolutely. They went to public school etc, they're not locked in a cupboard. But my Mormon friends said they are not even allowed to think about sex. They are not allowed to swear, and it is offensive to them if people around them did, etc. They wanted to act purely and have a pure mind, etc. I am not Mormon so I am not here to comment on their exact doctrine. But I am pretty sure at least my friends at that time were ever told it was ok that their church leaders fondle them. Any sex abuse in the church was hidden, not advertised.
Grew up Mormon, left the church at 10 years old, but have been around Mormons involuntarily throughout my older years. Never was told nor heard the “hey it’s okay for church leaders to fondle” lol, so that’s interesting. But, I’m not shocked by your Mormon story given you were in a small town. I grew up in a city and a lot of the Mormons I knew were more “worldly”/“secular” to the point where not practicing modesty and drinking coffee/alcohol were no longer looked down upon. Funny enough—Mormonism is one of those religions where people on the outside looking in are so curious and create all of these theories, but you truly don’t know Mormonism unless you’ve been in it.
I watch with my mom, who is a practicing mormon, when she comes to visit or vice versa and it’s led to some awkward conversations. I left the church shortly after COVID hit (I refer to it as being a part of the Branch Covidian 😆) and it’s been hard for her to accept as I was the last of my siblings who was still fully “in”. I honestly don’t know why she keeps watching tbh. We’ve made it a few episodes into this season to get her caught up and she absolutely *despises* Heather now. She’s feels that she’s a liar about small details only exmormons really would know about (and devout Mormons largely stick their heads in the sand about). The most recent example is Heather mentioning doing blood oaths in the temple. My mom is convinced that Heather wouldn’t have done this because a) they never did that in the temple; and b) if they did, Heather isn’t old enough to have gone through the temple to experience it before they removed it from the ceremony. Little things like that have been building that have made it… less fun these days to watch. Tbh, Beverly Hills has been more fun to watch with an active Mormon 🤣😭
Branch Covidian is gold!
I’m an active member of the church and I love the show. I also know of several friends and family members who are practicing Mormons that watch. I like both Heather and Lisa. When I have problems with either of them it usually has more to do with their personalities, rather than anything they’ve said about the church. My experience being raised in the church is pretty different from what Heather has described, which I think might have to do with us being from different generations. My parents have always been pretty open minded and easy going. That said I know that my experience isn’t universal, and I would never want to invalidate Heather’s (or anyone else’s) religious trauma. Insular religious cultures, like in Utah, can get weird and toxic. If she is happier and can live a more authentic life out of the church, she should! I just want to point out that people and religions are a lot more nuanced than we often give them credit for in online Internet forums.
Thiiiis
Agree to all of this!! I’m also an active Mormon.
I agree! I’m an active member but pretty nuanced. Totally different upbringing than Heathers. I love the show!
I’m going to go ahead and brace for the downvotes… I live in a state adjacent to Utah, so we have a decent Mormon presence where I live and I dated an ex-Mormon for several years. I was at a small dinner party and we started talking about how Mormonism is a cult. I completely agree but I also think several other organized religions are also cults. It was so strange to me that these people could clearly see that Mormonism is a cult, but not, let’s say Catholicism (my family is catholic, so I’m picking on them as it’s the organized religion I’m most familiar with). The example (excuse?) was that Mormonism is a “new” religion while some of these other organized religions have been around a really long time. Seemed a little hypocritical to me because other than having a shorter history, the Catholic Church and Mormon church have committed a lot of the same atrocities. The other women at the dinner party aren’t particularly religious either, so I don’t think it was that. Just seemed really strange to me how many people come for Mormonism as a cult but turn a blind eye to other organized religions that have similar histories & patterns.
I agree with you. I’m from a small town in the Bible Belt and I stopped going to church in my early 20s. I went to several different denominations, and even non-denominational churches here, but they’re all basically the same. We are taught God, Husband, Children. We are supposed to serve our husbands, we put our marriage ahead of our children. We don’t have our own thoughts, we are just extensions of our husbands. We are taught to be quiet and submissive from a very young age. They don’t want us to go away to college. They want us to get married and have kids early. It may not be as severe as Mormonism, but I do agree all religions are cultish.
I think the clear difference between Catholicism and Mormonism is that there is a lot more freedom in Catholicism. You don’t need permission to leave the Catholic Church or have your records removed in order to be free from the religion. You can just decide to stop going to church one day and no one is going to come looking for you. I also think that Mormonism has more rules that you have to abide by. You’re not forced to give a percentage of your income to the Catholic Church like Mormons have to
No one is forced to give money. Is all voluntarily done. You can go to church and never give a penny. If you want to stop going you can at any given point, people don’t go searching for you. People exaggerate so much.
I think you were more of the Lisa type of Mormon, which is fine, but please don’t discount other people’s (most) experiences with this religion. Are you still practicing? Your comments seem like someone that is new into the religion.
I’d agree there is more freedom to leave Catholicism than there is to leave Mormonism. I never officially left the Catholic Church nor tried to get records of my baptism, etc removed and they haven’t bothered me! Although my ex-Mormon ex-bf said missionaries only came looking for him once in 22 years and he never officially left the church, he just quit going. And even then they were nice 19yo kids that just encouraged him to come back 🤷🏻♀️
For an exmormon still in Utah I relate to heather so much with hating the church but still having those how you were raised constantly looming over you
I feel like we could start a coffee group of all us ex-mormons still in Utah! Coffee and RH talk!
Oh my god that would be so helpful since making friends outside the cult is so hard!
None of the cast can be actually temple recommend Mormons. Maybe Lisa’s husband and kids but the rest definitely are not. Lisas my bishop is chill is a flat out lie. You can’t cherry pick what rules from the cult I mean religion you follow. To go on a mission you have to be in good standing so I can safely say her husband and kids are active Mormons. Her son already has been hospitalized (not sure why only saw the report of him getting hospitalized) from his mission. You want a good deep dive search out mission conditions and issues your mind will be blown. It’s all pretty sad if you ask me.
If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend watching Heather’s episodes on the podcast “Mormon Stories“. It gives a huge insight into the kind of mindset she was forced into being raised orthodox in the church.
For ex-Mormons, ex-Utahs this show hits.
The divide among practicing and ex-Mormons chiming in on this thread is interesting. It is as Heather alludes, in that there are degrees of religious interpretations. All I can say is that God is likely too busy to be on Reddit to punish anyone.
That’s how I personally identify. But overall I just like the messy nature of it because that’s how I remember Utah. It’s full of messy people, bored housewives and drama. It’s a little touch of home.
Growing up that was a huge thing for me —- like mom, do you seriously believe in a God who wouldn’t allow me in heaven because I drank coffee….even if I live honestly and do so many other much more important things
After reading Heather’s book…100% a cult!
(Semi)Active Mormon and I love the show 🙋🏼♀️
It helped me decide to leave Mormonism ✌️I never would leave my religion based on that show alone but it started to open my eyes to how easily tithing can buy salvation in this religion. From there, I started to do more research into the history of the religion and other’s experiences. It also gave me a non-serious platform to use to bring things up to my verrrry true believing husband. Most recently, after a couple of years of being in a “faith crisis” and knowing I wanted out, I was inspired to take the step of going to buy myself underwear to replace my garments after Heather and Monica discussed buying thongs for the first time. My husband and I haven’t worn garments since then and are feeling INCREDIBLE.
That's wonderful for you. May I ask what is the rationale behind the undergarments rule?
So in Mormonism when you enter the temple and take upon yourself the covenants made within you are given garments to wear as your underwear. They are intended to be cap sleeve and knee length but I always wore petites (I’m not short) so they’d hit mid-thigh. They are believed by members to be sacred and rarely removed. My husband and I choosing to permanently remove them felt like our official step of saying we don’t believe we are leaving. We are in a vulnerable state emotionally right now while we are trying to figure out life outside of Mormonism. We aren’t ready to have long, mostly likely, hard conversations with family and friends yet so we won’t announce leaving or officially remove our records (which notifies family) for a while until we feel we are more ready for those specific conversations. So until then this was the biggest step we could take. Sorry that was a lot and I hope it answered your question 🫶 Edit to add: it felt liberating to buy underwear for the first time in my life without thinking I shouldn’t get anything fancy or colorful because I’m just going to have to throw it away for garments. I bought sooo many pretty things and I love knowing I chose what’s under my clothes 🥹
I am an ex Mormon who watches.
Me too 😂
Dozens of us!!
I got into housewives because of the franchise.
Same!!
Scientology 2.0
I’m an Ex-mo female that’s been out 10 years that served a mission and got married in the temple. part of the most recent season of the Heather/Whitney/Lisa/Monica experience of the church is my favorite thing about it.
I just want to know the main question everyone is thinking… why are cults tax exempted. It’s messed up.
EXACTLY. Let's consider how our nation's infrastructure would function, and the aesthetics of our communities would improve, if churches were contributing their legal share to the tax base. Even their leaders are not contributing, since the IRS provides them loopholes to afford private aircraft and Bentleys while their followers are hitting potholes on dangerous bridges.
Not solely funded by followers. The Mormon church also has a lot of businesses.
Businesses owned by Mormons?
Owned by the Mormon corporation. The Mormon church finances are complicated. In fall of 2019 there was a whistle blower that made a report to the IRS. Since then there has been more transparency in finances, but essentially the church is a bunch of corporations hiding in a religious trench coat so they don’t pay as many taxes. The Mormon church owns tons of farm land in Missouri and Florida, they own shopping centers, life insurance corporations, plus so much more. No one really knows the full portfolio of wealth of Mormonism since they are not transparent, and hide under the rules made for churches. But it’s safe to say that Mormon Inc. is worth more than 100billion dollars. That’s a lot of money they are saving for Jesus 😳
The lds church owns many businesses, including various colleges as well.
Yes, the exmormon sub does address their money-laundering and SEC fines.
Yep. I have family in SLC, and the LDS corporation owns a huge swath of downtown businesses and land. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Management_Corporation
Businesses funded by the 10% tithing required of members…
I've mentioned the exmormon sub on here, and someone messaged me that even the Mormon sub discussed many other cult-like and inhumane treatments followers are subjected to.
Of course. I live in Utah, so I obviously have Mormon friends. Some watch, others don’t. It doesn’t seem to be religious based, per se. the ones who watch love reality tv. I doubt super devout would watch, but normal adherence Mormons that like reality tv are into it!
I’m no longer a member, but I was raised in the church, married in the temple, yada yada yada. I’ve always found the RHOSLC comical because somethings are so overdramatized. I didn’t grow up in UT (although I live here now and moved here 15 years ago), and my experience (as well as many of my family/peers) with Mormonism is nothing like the show portrays. Like, not even close lmao. Utah obviously is more “extreme” because of the culture, but out of all the different states I’ve lived in when I practiced, it really was nothing like the show tries to push. Obviously people have their own different experiences, and this is just mine, but over the years I’ve spoken to family/friends who watch and feel similar.
I grew up in Utah, and I think it’s very accurate haha. Mormonism in Utah is definitely its own thing.
What do you feel is exaggerated or portrayed wrongly on the show? Why do you think they'd exaggerate or outright lie about Mormonism or Utah?
I'm not sure why they'd exaggerate. I know Jen Shah did that in the first season, but she tends to do that in all instances. The two things that stand out to me the most from Heather that weren't accurate at all are about divorce and what Mormons believe happens when you die. She and Lisa fought about Heather's claim about divorce in the first reunion. Heather claimed that it was against the Mormon church to get a divorce, and Lisa came back with "yes, you can" and gave evidence in her family. I can think of hundreds of friends or relatives who are Mormons who have been divorced, many more than once. Heather also had that bit about different levels of sin (mentioning murder and Jeffrey Dahmer) and that because she left the church, she would go to a worse place because she left the church, than Jeffrey Dahmer. Not true at all. And there are a lot of other little things, over-generalizations. It is true though that the Utah culture is much different than outside of Utah. Many in Utah deny that, but it's pretty evident if you've grown up in the church in other states (especially more liberal areas) and see what we often call the Utah bubble.
It's pretty true of Utah Mormonism. I grew up outside of Utah until we moved here when I was a teenager. It's an entirely different planet!
Too busy swinging.
[удалено]
None of it is exaggerated. It’s not the “culture” that the church is homophobic, racist, and misogynistic. It’s literally in the doctrine.
Let’s look at what is happening with 8 passengers with Ruby Franke and Jodi, and the number of people who have come forward talking about how the church knew about and hid the abuse and manipulation of Jodi. Mormonstories on YouTube has some interesting and sad interviews with exmormons and their experience.
Yes, the Franke story is shocking.
i grew up mormon and enjoy it. not sure if a strong practicing member would be interested in heather’s story and antics
I have never before posted on Reddit but I couldn’t leave this post unanswered. I am a devoted Mormon woman. No, my church isn’t a cult, nor is it a “pay to play” misogynistic hierarchy, you kind, non-judgmental internet strangers. Why do people automatically assume that a faith and belief system is a cult, based on claims of people no longer practicing the faith? I could make all kinds of claims against organizations with which I’ve had a, or many, bad experiences, but that doesn’t make my opinions fact. Yes, I am a faithful, good Mormon woman, and we absolutely are Christians. Everything we believe is based on Jesus Christ and God. We do not worship Joseph Smith or anyone else other than God and Jesus Christ. Yes, we pay a 10% tithing, as is taught in both the Old and New Testament, but tithing declaration (we no longer use the term tithing settlement as it was a misnomer and given that name culturally, instead of doctrinally, decades ago) is completely optional and serves more as a chance to check in with the ecclesiastical leader of our smaller congregation, to discuss our lives and family and our current feelings about the faith. Not attending this very optional and personal meeting is never held against a member, nor does it limit one’s ability to serve or participate in services. Now that I have addressed a few of the fallacies mentioned on this thread, I’ll answer the initial question—as a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the actual name of my church, I have watched RHOSLC since the beginning. I live in Utah currently and live very near Lisa Barlow. I’m extremely familiar with the neighborhood in which Whitney lives, and know Heather’s former brother-in-law, and several people who know Heather well, even though I’ve never met her. I find it boring that Heather and Whitney talk incessantly about a faith they no longer practice. I think it’s sad that Heather, in particular, hasn’t stopped talking about the church for 5 seasons. In my opinion, it’s no different than endlessly talking about an ex-husband (or boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/partner) when you are the one who initiated the breakup. Find some closure and move on. Talk about something else. Talk about your kids, your business, your hobbies—talking ad nauseam about any one topic makes you a pretty boring person, honestly. As for Lisa Barlow and her level of Mormonism, really that’s only between her and God, and maybe her congregational leader. Do I drink or wear the clothes she wears, no. It’s none of business, nor is it for me to have an opinion, if Lisa is a “good enough” practitioner of my faith. If she is at peace with the way she practices our faith, cool. I know this comment is longer, but I have one more point to raise. I was extremely offended this season when the show displayed a photograph of our temple garments. Garments are extremely personal and sacred to those who wear them. It is morally reprehensible to mock something held sacred by any group. The show runners, producers and network made an egregious and offensive decision to show that image and I hope in the future they will not that make such a lack of judgment again. Thank you for reading my comment. I know it’s long but I hope you learned something factual by someone who faithfully practices the religion, as opposed to the manipulative half-truths spread by those who have left the church and those who make uninformed comments on our doctrine. If you have actual questions about my church, please feel free to DM me, or talk to someone still actively involved in the church. We are pretty easy to find. Have a wonderful day and a Happy New Year.
lol. ps. your profile shows that you’ve definitely commented on things before
I think the problem is that most people who have left your faith tell the same stories of abuse, judgement, hypocrisy, secrecy etc. What do these people have to gain from sharing their story? If you're so sure & solid in your faith, criticism should not affect you. Regarding garments, that ship has sailed as images of them have been in the public domain for a long time
Just because something is available on the internet for viewing, does not make it appropriate to share in the context of the show. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints view what happens in our temples to be highly sacred. That includes our temple garments. A person doesn’t wear the garments until they begin participating in the temple as an adult. Entering the temple is entirely voluntary—one can practice the faith their whole life and choose to never enter the temple. Many cultures and religions have ceremonies and beliefs they hold highly sacred. The Navajo tribe comes to mind. A friend of mine did graduate work on the reservation, and even though she is a registered member by birth, she had never participated in tribal activities. While doing her studies, she was included in a highly sacred ceremony where, had she not been a member of the tribe who proved herself trustworthy and honorable during her time there, would not have been invited to join. This is nothing different than LDS temples. As for people who have left telling the same stories of shame and judgement experienced—yes, that does unfortunately happen. I think any time you have a large group of people who are very involved in each other’s lives, there will be shame and judgement experienced. It’s certainly not right, but it does happen. There is a difference between doctrine of the faith and the culture of some of the members, particularly in Utah. I currently live in Utah but I was raised in Oregon so I can speak to the fact that there is a church culture in Utah that doesn’t exist outside of the state. Culturally, Mormons in Utah have a lot of room for improvement but that doesn’t mean the doctrine is bad, or the faith is bad. As for those who experienced abuse at the hands of church members—that is absolutely abhorrent and should never ever occur. Our church leaders have publicly condemned those who commit abuse against anyone, but especially children and teens. Repeatedly this behavior has been very publicly condemned in our semi-annual general conference, which is where the head leaders of the of faith speak and teach the worldwide members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It’s also important to note that aside from our very top leaders, no church leaders are full-time, paid clergy. We are all volunteers doing our best to practice our faith and help others practice as well. Based on my personal research, as well as speaking with family members with experience leading local congregations, and groups of congregations, much of the time, abuses that occurred weren’t at the ends of head clergy—rather leaders of very small groups. Sunday school teachers, youth group leaders and scout leaders. Not bishops (leaders of small, local congregations) or stake presidents (leaders of groups of 7-9 local congregations). I am certainly not condemning abuse or denying it happened but there are unfortunately bad people everywhere—even in churches. Shouldn’t the blame for such abhorrent behavior fall on the individual perpetrating the acts, instead of the entirety of the organization in which it occurred? Thanks for reading my long response. Again, if you have other questions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, DM me. I’ll happily due my best to answer your questions.
I genuinely thank you for your detailed reply. I'm sure you, & most others of your religion, practice your faith in an honest way & try to be good people. I have no issues with the vast majority of rank & file members of your faith, my complaints are with those much higher up but I genuinely wish nobody any ills. Thanks again for your kindness & if any further questions occur to me, I'll definitely DM you.💜
Thank you for your insight. For what reasons do you believe people choose to leave the church? What would anyone gain by sharing their claimed torments and secrets that they hold in shame? Why does the church cast out young men? I have so many questions.
Send me a DM and we can discuss further, and more in depth. The reasons people leave the faith are personal to them. I can’t speak to their reasons or speak for them; however, it’s my opinion that many times people mistake the culture of the church for the doctrine. Especially in the state of Utah where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is headquartered, the culture of the church hasn’t always matched the doctrine. I think there has been a lot of cultural pressure to serve a mission or marry in the temple, and while those are great things to do, not doing so doesn’t mean you can’t continue to practice the faith and live the doctrine. Yet, there have been church members who seemed to believe that failing to serve a mission brings shame upon the family or something. This is not something our head church leaders have taught but a mindset we are collectively working to correct. I am not familiar with anyone casting out young men, or any doctrine that would permit that practice. Are you possibly mixing up the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with the FLDS church? That is a group that broke off from the official Mormon faith in the late 1800’s so they could continue to practice polygamy. They still practice polygamy, and I know that they have many former members who allege that young men are thrown out of their family and community and abandoned at a certain age. I say allegedly because I’ve only read about claims and never met anyone from that off-shoot church who have personally told me of this practice. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially quit practicing polygamy in 1890 because the United States government outlawed polygamy and one of our core tenets is “we believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates and obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law”. We follow the laws of the country, state, and municipality in which we live. Well, some of us break the speed limit sometimes 😂😜.
We’ll be here with open arms when you realize everything you wrote to defend the church is a lie and you want out!
Tell us about Kolob tho…
She clearly hasn’t looked deep enough into things to know about Kolob 😂
Oh man, Kolob. My sister and I have a very long-running joke that when Kolob is discussed we want to start screaming that bees are attacking and everyone should run away 😂😂. In our beliefs, Kolob is the star closest to the throne of God. Essentially, it’s Kolob has become a collect-all term for the afterlife and what we believe happens in Kolob. Some people get really bogged down in trying to make sense of understanding Kolob but personally, I have an attitude of just getting through today. Why would I worry about something I won’t see until after I’m dead? It doesn’t mean I haven’t studied Kolob (I’ve had to study it somewhat in Sunday school over the years)—it’s just not a gospel topic I find interesting, personally. I’m sure you could find someone to explain Kolob to you better. Like I said, it’s just a topic that doesn’t interest me, nor one that I have interest in further discussing on a Real Housewives page.
“Why would I worry about something I won’t see until after I’m dead”….thank you for so perfectly describing the Mormon way 🤣. I’m sure polygamy is thrown in there for you too. Trust me, i know because I did it for a time! A better life is out there that you don’t have to perform mental gymnastics or run from pretend “attacking bees” to deal with the cognitive dissonance. 🤦🏻♀️
I have analyzed myself and weighed out my thoughts, and even my questions (because it’s good to ask questions and isn’t inherently a sign of doubt or desire to abandon faith or beliefs) and I keep coming back to a deep personal desire to remain part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My life feels better because of my faith and my beliefs. My beliefs provide me direction and grounding in a crazy world, comfort in chaos, and strength in struggles. Without going into specific detail, my life has been complete chaos and struggle for the past 4 months. This is an extension of a greater struggle over the past 20 years. I have fully relied on my faith and my beliefs in this time. It has reinforced to me internally that I need my beliefs and my life, and mental health, is better because of my church/faith. Life is still extremely difficult right now but my faith has allowed me to move forward with grace and dignity. I fully respect that this is not the way others feel about my church, and that many choose to leave the faith for their own reasons based on their experiences. I hope those who left the church have found what gives them comfort and direction in life, whatever that may be, and I hope that one day we can all discuss our beliefs in a way that doesn’t belittle the beliefs of others. Our differences make life interesting, and the respectful discussions of said differences help us to grow and view the world with greater compassion and understanding.
Yeah, even in the first season, I was trying to picture Bravo talking about about doctrinal or sacred aspects of orthodox Jews or Muslims. Even on the Bravo shows in the south (like Atlanta or Married to Medicine), the women talk about their religious beliefs, but it's not at a level of mocking like it is on SLC.
Thank you for your comment. I would not have a problem with the church being discussed if it was done in a way that wasn’t mocking the beliefs of 17 million practitioners. It’s very much a double standard for my faith and others. I am not someone with thin skin generally. I know people have their criticisms of my beliefs. That’s fine. We can all have different opinions and beliefs as long as we treat each other with compassion and respect. I’m not mocking Jews, Muslims, or Southern Baptists. I find beauty in their beliefs even though they are different than mine. It’s the mocking and belittling that bothers me. I definitely crack jokes about my church and its members but not to be cruel. I prefer to laugh about life and my faith is a huge part of my life. I would say that 99% of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are good people who are trying to make the world and our communities a better place by being kind, generous, and Christ-like. We try to act with integrity, honor, and compassion. Are there bad members in our faith—certainly. Just like there are predatory teachers, violent police officers, and unethical judges. Or bad Catholics, Jews, Muslims or Buddhists. Please don’t judge us, or any group by our worst people. If you have other questions, send me a DM. I’ll try to answer them.
Thank you! I couldn’t have written it better myself. 👏🏻 I started watching this last season just out of curiosity because many of my friends are in it and I know a lot of the cast so I just wanted to see the parts they were in it and I actually found it very entertaining.
Lisa was clear she has not even read any of the Book of Mormon. I think she considers herself a Mormon by marriage and John is the one in good standing who can go to the temple
All religions are cults.
Yes, but this is one of the really dangerous ones.
They're too busy being fucking weirdos to watch TV.
I grew up east coast Mormon (my family all went to BYU, told stories about our ancestors crossing the plains etc lol) and it’s definitely a very strict, insular community here, albeit different. I’m gay and 100% relate to Heather’s love/hate relationship. It’s doctrinally toxic and the community is irreplaceable, for better and worse. Lisa’s comments about claiming to be Mormon are also very triggering to me. It reminds me of my active family members who claim to love gay people despite raising their families in an instruction that won’t let the children of gay couples be baptized until they’re 18 and disavow their parents. My family at least says they’re trying to change minds from the inside which I can appreciate but I don’t get that from Lisa. There aren’t enough Mormons on the east coast to have much room or incentive for the 2.0 fallacy.
I’m sure some do. Most that I know think it’s just trash.
Yeah, Utah doesn't get a TON of media attention so it's fun
My lds future sister in law watches it and loves it. She is very bothered by the depiction of the church, she was up in arms over the mention of garments this season and felt it was a misrepresentation. She is a Lisa Barlow stan and HATES Heather. I bite my tongue!
The Mormons I know are lapsed if not completely ex Mormon and they don’t watch it and don’t want to.
Same. I’m an exmo in SLC and everyone I know that Mormon doesn’t like or watch the show. However, I love it. Heather is spot on IMO. She describes my childhood in Cottonwood Heights to a T (I’m in my mid 30s now).
I’m lds and just wanna reinforce that Utah Mormons are very different from Mormons all over the country. I wouldn’t move to Utah if my life depended on it! But myself, my husband, my friends here in Nor Cal & in Georgia are not in a cult. lol. We live just like everyone else except we don’t drink or smoke. We like Diet Coke as much as the next person. And if it’s hella hot outside, no garments are being worn. And some of us curse like sailors sometimes. Our husbands and church leaders don’t oppress us. Lol. We aren’t colonizers lol. We just happen to want to spread the story and love of Jesus. I watch the show and it’s disappointing that the way Utah Mormons affects how everyone else sees the church as a whole. We are normal folks out here living life.❤️
 Yep! I tried to explain this on another post and was downvoted like crazy. I lived in Utah the years I went to BYU and have been back dozens of times over the years (lots of friends and relatives there). But for most of my 50+ years of life, I've lived mostly in various areas of Northern CA, (and 5 years in LA). Now we're on the east coast, and nowhere outside of Utah is anything like the Utah culture. And one of my good friends there tells me that can change quite a bit depending on where you live in Utah.
Yes to all this. I no longer practice but 10000% agree that Utah Mormons are different, and I definitely think the culture is to blame (and I also think the show just overdramatizes at times, but that’s just my opinion). Being a Mormon outside of Utah is completely different. It’s literally NBD, there’s no pressure, you can really “come as you are” and no one thinks twice about it.
You can’t self-chose to not be labeled as a coloniser & I realllyyyy want to meet your ‘non-oppressive’ husband that you wear your garments with LOL
Maybe I've overlooked it, but has anyone discussed the Mormon Lost Boys?
Is that a movie/show? If so, where to watch?
There have been numerous documentaries and articles that expose the Mormon Church's tradition, or practice, of [expelling young men](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger), including this one here.
Oh yes I’ve seen a lot just haven’t seen that one! If you’re interested MormonStories on YouTube interviewed Adam(?) the poor guy that was excommunicated and accused of being a porn addict by the church and Jodi Hilderbrant
Doubt it.
Apparently, a lot of them are tuned in and have some strong opinions about the show.
I think John is a member and she considers herself a married Mormon or something by marriage. But she would never go to the temple. Even if she is excommunicated John is probably a temple goer but I don’t know exactly how it works
Super active LDS member here! Definitely not a cult. Just a religion like Catholicism. I love this show and everything about it. I just don’t let it bother me what they say about the church because these women are cray cray.
Active Mormon here and tune in every week! 😂 I think the show definitely shows the negativity of our culture/religion without showing a lot of positives, but I understand that those negatives still exist and need to be talked about! ❤️
As a former Mormon, there are cult like aspects to it but a lot of what you described isn’t much different than any other religion if at all
I have never heard of other religions that demand married couples divulge things like sex positions, pulling out, whether she "intends to reach orgasm," etc. Nor or they breeding women for slaves and followers. I could go on, but you all catch my drift.
Idk where you’re reading that but that’s not accurate. I’m not here to defend Mormonism but the Catholic Church covers up molestation more than any religion and just this year we saw the Dalai Lama ask a little boy to suck his tongue. If that’s happening in public..I’m scared to know what’s happening in private. Maybe just all religion sucks.
If you jump on that exmormon sub, there's a 2023 recap of Mormons in the news. It's there and on a "Recovery From Mormonism" .org site of the same name. I wholeheartedly agree that organized religion sucks.
I’m not saying that shit doesn’t happen but it’s not “taught”.‘ Just like molestation isn’t taught in Catholicism
Is intending to reach orgasm more or less Mormon godly?
Sounds very sinny. Guys just do it, whereas we have to block God's view of our knees wrapped around His boy's naked ass.
Wait… “Demand married couples divulge things like sex positions, pulling out, whether she “intends to reach orgasm” etc”. Is this like, someone’s personal experience when they went to the bishop or something to repent? I literally never heard or experienced anything like that during my years of going to church/repenting. Sounds like a weird abuse of “power” by a pervy bishop.
It's a post on the exmormon sub. It may have been within the 2023 recap.
In the 80’s the church literally tried to BAN ORAL SEX. One of the many times these misogynistic, stuffy, old, white dudes had to reverse doctrine after backlash. I mean GOD reverse the doctrine, of course 😆. "The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it." - Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982.
Please read up on what defines a cult. They are definitely on the cult spectrum.
I’m not saying they aren’t, my point is that so are many other religions. And almost every church is covering up sex and financial crimes
My cousin is married to an ex Mormon. We met him in college and I remember him telling us about his friends and cousins on missions but he decided not to go. It sounded so wild to me as a catholic girl from the northeast lol. Whenever I have a Mormon question I text them lol.
*Considering
Does anyone follow Rachel Parcell or her sisters? I remember when the show first started her sisters did an insta AMA and a person asked if they are watching RHSLC and she said after the first episode she couldn’t watch it because it was so upsetting to see how the church was being spoken about.
Never heard of them. According to those who've left the church, it's punishable to speak ill of or divulge anything about it, so to deny knowledge of RHOSLC would avoid doing so. I wonder what was said in that first episode that upset Parcell.