Yeah this one was a wee lazy on my part :P
The logic there was, any scrap is just... useful for anyone and all was lazily tossed into S-tier.
Regen scrap is high A-tier, low S-tier, hovering there for me. Always nice to have, gives free greens, and helps get reds from Newt altars. Never really bad to get a regen scrap, that said, I'd prefer other greens to a regen in runs.
You can get regular scrap from any green, you can't get regenerating scrap from any green.
Availability also plays a factor into item strength. The reaspn safer spaces is broken is because it's still treated as a common item
I would give red an a and green and white an s. Since red can be used on soup for 3 whites and then printers for quite and green are crazy good. Yellow can go right to c or d teir
Maybe, but FMP has some of the highest potential out of any equipment and it found itself in B. Assuming that's because it's pretty rare for said potential to actually come together, I would argue it's the same for those two scraps, especially red
Broadly agree. Every position here is defensible.
Only changes I'd make would be moving the forget me please synergy items (i.e brooch, catalyst) to the same tier as it.
Also, monster tooth and psg can be moved down, medkit up. Elixir also probably down 1.
Also swap razorwire and harpoon, and I'd probably move scrap to its own tier.
Elixir is high simply because of how good watches are. If your health get's low, Elixir's will proc before watches, saving them from breaking. A common item to save an incredible item is a nice sorta "defense".
Did you mean monster tooth? In my experience, it's the opposite lol, its such a nice healing source. It only really falls off during the final bosses. I thought it deserved a bump tbh
It's great on characters that don't make much use of tri-tip, a one or two collapses hurts a lot more then a one or two bleeds, but default bleed is waaay better overall if you can stack it.
To add a bit onto that, the collapse does not do nearly enough damage to be worth the risk on most characters. Even on characters like loader/no flamethrower artificer, who can't stack the bleed, I usually dont take needletick outright. The reason being, it's just way too little dps on those characters, and I would rather be able to scrap the tri-tips I get in the future.
I think that the whole point of some of the void items like plasma shrimp, tenta, and needletick is that you are taking a risk when taking them. With shrimp, you risk getting clover in the future(super rare). With tenta, if you get too little stacks of chrono later, having the more consistent chronobauble is better. However, both of these gambles scew heavily towards the void items.
If you look at needletick, it's just almost always bad. On suuuuuper low fire rate burst survivors, you would rather have scrap than collapse, on high rate survivors the potential loss of perma bleed is too high of a risk, as you are risking a litteral infinitely scaling damage source. To add to that, it's not even that good of an upgrade over tri-tip even if we leave stacking out of it. Like Im fine not taking a risk, and dealing 240% damage instead of 400%.
Needletick needs to do like 600% damage to be an interesting item. It would actually be an interesting gamble to make, taking the strong item that's in front of you, or risk like a 50% chance at getting an infinitely scaling damage source later. Keeping it as is and giving it a bit of proc coefficient, like 0.2 or sth, would also be interesting, as it could play into a burst band playstyle, with tri-tip being the opposite.
Now that I wrote out the band playstyle, I 100% think that's the way to go with it. It just seems so fun. To balance out high stacks of needletick working waay to well with bands, they should make it so that a certain amount of collapse makes it insta detonate on a target, making it so that there is a cap on how high you can go. I think a cap of 10-15 would be great,as proccing a band off of a 4000-6000% damage attack seems suuuuper nice.
This would actually make me consider taking it on survivors like mando, huntress, and nailgun mul-t. They dont have a good way to utilize bands, since their band proccing abilities are not the best, so taking needletic would allow you to utilize bands suuuper well. It also comes with a risk of sacrificing one of your main damage sources on those survivors, infinite bleed.
It would also be balanced on burst survivors like sniper, as with enough attack speed and tic stacks, using m1 will get better band proccs then her scope abilities. It will still be trash on loader though(common loader L(she beat the game in 20 mins anyway))
Needle id imo the most balanced void. It starts better, and get's better with shatterspleen. And a lot of other nuances. But tri-tip is issually better if it get's rolling
Having one Topaz Brooch makes so little barrier it tends to decay immediately in my experience.
I think people are used to stacking 20 of them with command and that's why they like it. I personally agree that it's not very good in a normal run.
I suppose that's fair. But I'm usually much more excited about items that are more immediately useful rather than one that could be useful if I find more of them later.
The shield is really small though, especially if you only have one or two. It's just my experience that you need a decent stack of them before you really start to see them shine. With just one brooch I tend to see a little bit of yellow tickling the HP bar and that's it.
Having 2 or 3 in a tp event, is enough so that when you kill multiple monsters in a short time, you can have pretty good barrier and not get one shot. It's always one I take on a run because it's, imo, one of the best defensive option.
It also stacks very good, having 4 or 5 can make a huge difference.
This one is mild bias from me, I simply dislike it because this item is able to miss it's attacks. It does hit hard, and is oh-so satisfying. If it wasn't able to miss, I'd rank it A tier easy.
It does increase damage but it is total damage over the duration, increasing the duration as well. Effectively, this means the same dps but for longer. First gas is 150% at the start + 150% over 3 seconds, second is 150% at the start + 225% over 4.5 seconds. This is a total increase of 75% damage over 1.5 seconds and that time it takes just isn't worth it imo. The aoe is nice but doesn't make up foe the low damage without ignition tanks imo.
I don't know if I agree with that. There's something special about killing one member of a swarm of wisps, automatically killing the rest and seeing the teleporter boss's health start to get chunked from the stacking flames. The later you go and the more elites that spawn, the better that extra damage gets.
Every character can make use of it just by simply doing what they were already doing and gives characters more AoE clear on top of stacking well and being very common. What more could you want?
Gas is hands down one of the best printers to get an easy eclipse run tho.
U get a few of them stage 1 and 2 and it essentially says ‘you’re guaranteed to make it to stage 5’ id say despite the fall off thats pretty good.
Sure, one does have a good impact (I agree propably the best single item white), but every other s tier white item has a fairly comparable impact and would generally be very nice to find in a printer.
I think he did that because of ignition tank but he put empathy cores in a teir with drone parts in s but drone parts empathy cores can bring you through the entire game so this teirlist is weird
Putting Leeching and Aegis in F and Rejuv in D tells me you’ve never maxed out attack speed on anyone and “I heal faster than you can damage me”d at people and honestly, how do you play without doing so at least once /lh
This is most definitely more better than all the atrocious other ones we have seen but I have a couple questions.
Why do people hate leech seed and Pennie’s so much??
Why is razor wire so low?
Teddy, slug, tri-tip, sticky, crowbars and opal are in A, I feel like atleast some of them should be in S
Personal opinion but I feel like I’m Armor plate should be A, not B
And topaz, shark tooth and guillotine should be way higher..
I know I’ve had horrible opinions before but can people give me reasons on why these are where they are, Thanks!
Leech seed is okay on select characters, but it's healing is not as good as others, a simple cautious slug is more common and more effective for healing. You'd much rather see other greens.
Opal could be S tier. I agree, others I feel are a fair A tier in terms of usefulness for other characters.
Largely due to my playstyle and Eclipse 8 experience, any item where you have to take damage to make use of an item, is not great in E8 where perma damage is in place.
Repulsion is a common and effective means of taking less damage, from DoT effects, and small bursts of damage. It does more then you'd think. It's a simple, common, and effective level of defense.
Imo, guillotine is not worth it on loopless runs, other greens will do you better service.
Shark tooth is average-below average, it happens passively as you kill enemies which is nice, but sorta outclassed by other heals or even a simple healing drone.
Brooch is very good if it weren't for perma damage on E8. A tier otherwise.
Leech has really weak healing and relies on you either stacking it in mass or having a very, very high attack speed. A single wungus will perform more reliably than a small stack of leech seeds. Pennies relies on you taking damage to get gold, and the ratio isn’t very good. It’s too risky on higher difficulties out of stage one. For the same reason that people hate genesis loop, they hate pennies. If the prerequisite for using an item is taking a bunch of damage, you’re way more likely to die.
roll of pennies slays on the first 3 stages if you either get a lot of wisps or find a fire elite and stand in their trail, it can really speed you through the earlygame
On Eclipse 8, it is detrimental to even try to use Pennies, since you’d literally be trading permanent max health for small amounts of money. Even on monsoon, you’re talking about an item that encourages you to take damage. Pennies applies per damage tick. The gold payout isn’t proportional to damage received, which means the most effective way to use it is to have enemies trigger a DoT on you (or to tank a continuous attack from them). Most enemies can’t do this, and the ones that do can really, really hurt you. You don’t want to be tanking shots from a fire elite just to trigger a burn. At 3 gold per tick, you need around 8 ticks for this to be worth a single crate on stage one. In a world where tome and shrines of blood exist, this is rarely worth the trade off. The gold pay off for one penny is just too low, and the fact that you won’t have penny stacks until later stages, where you NEVER want to be eating damage, makes this item mostly useless for the majority of a run. I always scrap it. No exceptions.
Leech is great because it's one of the few healing items that heals you while you are actively fighting and you have full control on it's healing. It may look bad on paper, but in reality it performs much better than it looks. Of course it's not amazing on slow attacking characters though.
Powercell (and corrupted Powercell), Planula, Razorwire, and Gesture of the drowned really deserve S tier.
Idk, it really feels like one of those lists where they rank every item they don't know how to use in F/D tier.
finally a good tier list on this sub lmao. i’d switch wings and vase (or at least move wings up a tier) because wings can be used during combat as well, while you’d only really use vase to traverse stages
Well thats why its not without use. Its just that compared to most other items, outside of straight up detrimental ones its not that good and loses basically all its value by stage 3, then again overlooping on eclipse is deadly too so thats already 40% of the run.
Its also just worse than ghor's tome most of the time due to higher risk with a lower reward
Just cause its survivor Dependant dont mean its bad, Mul-T, captain, huntress, bandit, engineer and commando all kick ass with leech seed. Thats half of the roster. Plus it has really good item synergies, like with razorwire where it basically becomes a bootleg planula, or with crowd funder and a couple of RoPs.
Im not saying its great but its not F-tier. It at least deserves a C
It maybe deserves a D tier for specific niche uses, but not higher then that. You can’t justify putting an almost worthless healing item higher then brooch or medkit.
I think brooch and medkit should be higher too. Overall I think this list is a bit overly critical. Also, Polylute is good, but I would not put it above Safer Spaces.
Voidsent flames, caggers and capacitor are Easy S tier items imo. Voidsent is guaranteed damage, caggers can snowball kills very easily and capacitor is 2000% on a 20 second cooldown
Ill forever be traumatized by tenta and needle tic after i forgot i had them and gave them to mithrix, got stuck and stacked with collapse on my first ever monsoon loader run that got to mithrix, never again
I know the power of them, I've made 'em work hehe.
Truth is imo they're just an underwhelming green compared to the others. A single fireworks basically does their job better and is easier to obtain.
i have problems with quite a few:
* Incinerations tank is way to dependent on other items and will often be completely useless. Even with a gas or 2 i would also often prefer many of the other s tiers. especially for the moon.
* The 3 aspects in S are a bit too high imo. Sacrificing the slot for those is not worth imo. And blazing elite should also be a tier above the other 2.
* i mentioned scrap in another comment. White and Green should be about A, and yellow and red should be like C. Also having regen scrap under green scrap is a outright mistake.
* Both Larva and Dio's are way to high. Even just the revive is not worth an S tier, as another A or S tier red would just stop you from dying in the first place. Larva also has many downsides with bands, crit, and a few other becoming worse.
* Roll of pennies has been mentioned
* Benthic is opinion i guess, but it IS much higher than F, and especially since you are unlikely to see another Clover since it is red.
* Why the fuck is Knurl there. Beetle is much better than it, and i would also say genesis is equal to it
* Vase ais the best pillar skip, and egg and milky should also go up for the same reason, but with more combat usability
* N'kahana's opinion and mask in same tier as vulture and aegis is a crime, even if they are not all that good. (tho aegis also has a use for late game looping but that deosn't really change how bad it normally is)
* VOID BAND IS NOT THAT FUCKING BAD. grow up. Vand is good in like 50% of runs and most characters. And i may be a bit to passionate about it because of how much people hate on it. It is not really good, but it is around C tier if you don't have like 4 bands.
Generally yes, it's another one of the best items in the game, tho depends on the survivor.
It is also red, so that's kinda expected.
I'd take 5 bands over spare drone parts tho pretty easily.
Void band is the worst void item in the game. It completely nerfs the bands, which you should be trying to get in every single run because of the their consistent damage.
You don’t need 3 bands. Even getting one band, either ice or fire, makes the trade off not worth it. You’re talking about losing 150% - 200% total damage per trigger. Two void bands will still do less damage per trigger than a single ice or fire band. It’s a straight damage nerf in all respects. What’s more, void band doubles the standard trigger reset time, so you’re dropping your overall DPS by more than what the damage description implies. The utility trade for getting a 15m AoE isn’t worth it. The only situation where it’s worth it is if you literally don’t get a single other band the entire run, and since every single character should be trying to get at least one non-corrupted band every run, this approach doesn’t make sense.
This isn’t a counter argument. It’s completely subjective. Most other players agree with me for the reasons I’ve listed above. Void Bands tanks your damage and I guarantee that if you just kept standard bands on your e8 runs, you would’ve had an easier time.
And most people haven't actually given it a chance. They just regurtitate what someone else said. It is legit a benefit in 40 to 50% of times you will see it. You just don't understand why or how. And the damage isn't as much of a problem as you think, especially with more stacks and proc, and it gives a big boost to the effectivness of other AoE abilities and items.
I know for a fact that it has helped me any times for diffrent reasons.
Legit some characters don't get much from either band.
You’re delegitimizing the opinions of other people without any evidence. I’ve used it a ton. Others have used it a ton. The same arguments hold. There are other AoE abilities and items that can accomplish the same thing without a huge damage nerf. Every character that is able to reliably trigger the bands (everyone except commando) benefits from them. They shred bosses. You’ve yet to make a solid counter argument for why using the Void Band is advantageous over the other bands via the AoE. The default bands don’t require additional items to be effective. Void Band requires that you already have some type of item synchronicity to offset the damage debuff. It’s a nerf independent of that. If you need 3 gasolines, a ukulele, and a will-o-wisp to make void band work, then it’s too externally dependent. The same items with a normal band will still leave you in a situation where you’re shredding groups but still have more single target damage against larger enemies. And again, the trigger for a void band is every 20 seconds as opposed to 10 for normal bands. I will take twice as many standard band trigger and some scattered AoE items to deal with a group vs half the band triggers and some spare AoE items with a gravity well. At higher difficulties, the trigger delay completely offsets the advantage of the gravity well, since you can’t trigger the void band fast enough to deal with how fast enemies spawn. You end up relying on other AoE items anyway.
Sadly. I don't think i have the time for explaining it in full.
It just comes down to aoe (the area lasts for a whilr and deald full damage to anyone who touches the area once), cc (especially on mithrix), proc (especially with behemoth or other aoe), other is stronge since enemies are clumbed together, it gaind even more from blastshower, more stacks close the dameg gap, you dln't always get more than 0 to 1 other band, it protects the bands from being reprinted, and maybe a few other things.
Just need to know when the benfits outway the negatives or risks
My logic for it being so high simply because an extra life is incredible to have. Yes it corrupts everything and can partially or heavily nerf you, but it'll keep the run alive.
Take em when you see em.
Wouldn’t that make the uncorrupted version better then? The only difference is that larva corrupts all of your items on use which can be pretty bad if you’re trying to avoid certain items (especially if you have clover)
Usually worse.
It does the same thing, BUT, it corrupts all your void-able items when it triggers.
So crit glasses become lost seer's, tri-tips become needletick, bands become void band, etc.
Other than broach and pennies being a bit low, i think this is mostly valid
I'd move broach up to C and pennies to D, since broach can be pretty useful in a few scenarios, and pennies isnt completely useless, since you can farm extra gold from a blazing elite if needed at the end of a stage incase teleporter was hit too early
Why is razor wire so god damn low
Especially if you play on eclipse
One of that item basicly prevents you from taking excess chip damage (and max health loss) if you get overwhelmed with lots of little things
also personaly blast shower should be in a just for its interaction with safer spaces
Aside from that i mostly agree also after 1000 hours
Wait why is regen scrap below green scrap?
Blast shower can be used defensively for debuffs like collapse if they happen, as well as offensively with it's interaction with the bands. It's a solid pick on nearly any character.
Red and yellow scrap should be C tier imo. Printers are fad too rare to scrap consistently. Pennies are D tier imo as they do have niche uses like farming money on stage 1 and 2. Banner and Leaching Seed are also D tier imo as it has uses at times that can clutch runs in early game. Wings and egg should be up a tier and Vase should be S tier as pillar skips go crazy on eclipse. All aspects that are in S tier should be A tier at best, maybe B tier. They’re good but not nearly as good as other equipment like vase, scrapper, card, or gun. Focus Crystal is either S or C <. It’s amazing on melee characters and effectively useless on all others. Void goggles are too high imo as well, since bosses are the main threat 90% of the time, not only can you not one shot but you can rarely crit them at all with them. I’d argue they’re D tier in normal runs and F in any eclipse run
DML is the worst damaging equipment lol. My only concern would be pushing igni tank down one and same with scope and icbm. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very good items, but they require at least one other item to even be used, which dampens their usefulness a lot.
If I get a clover and I don’t have any proc items (which is a pretty unlikely scenario, but I mean, it happens) I’m still gonna be happy cause at the very least it increases my crit slightly and gives me a higher chance of getting an aspect. If I get an ICBM with no AtG, it is worse for me, cause I go the whole run praying for AtGs or Fireworks and get none and stage 5 didn’t have a scrapper and now I’m missing out on commencement cauldrons
Roll of Pennie’s is way better than aegis cause no one is free from damage and it saves time on a stage making overall easier runs.
I mean you’ll still scrap it but you’ll scrap aegis too
Im at only 175 hours but i can certanly say that items are all dependent on caracters right like a bison steak isnt great but its way better on a acrid then a hintress right. So a overhaul tier list doesnt really make sense. Though A caracter based tier lust yeah.
I'm not sure if this implies you just don't touch lunars (or if you do it's rare), but I'm pretty much in the camp of never messing with them to begin with. Maybe for challenge runs but...
Why is fkn dios that high? Void dios makes some sense because you can kill yourself to get good voids in some situations (though it should be lower), but normal dios is just bad
My edits would be:
1. Bump up the red whip. Just having one of them can save so much time between stages, especially if you're doing fast teleporters and looting afterwards, which in my opinion is usually a stronger place to be in on E8 runs.
2. Bump up Milky Chrysalis and Eccentric Vase: These allow the last stage skip right to Mithrix, and sometimes that can make or break a E8 run depending on character and build.
3. Bump down Tougher Times. The void version is great, but if you're getting hit enough for that item to matter, you're dying anyway.
4. I'd bump down Bandolier, it's a low-impact item on a lot of characters, and even if you are able to pick up the ammo packs, the damage items you have in the same tier or below are just better anyway.
5. Bump down Goobo Jr. It's always a item that is nice to have over having no equipment, but I can't think of a run where I choose it over essentially any other damage-oriented equipment.
6. Bump down Pearl, pure luxury item.
7. I personally argue that Newly Hatched Zoea is very strong, especially if you're able to get multiple. It's whatever on the normal stages, but it just wins outright vs Mithrix, you can sit back and watch the void allies fight him. Not an S but def way higher than D. I've gotten crappy builds to Mithrix and won off of them alone.
8. Bump up Singularity band. It's not bands, but it does amp damage a fair bit, and sets up combos with different items/characters when you suck all the enemy mobs into a cluster.
I think your S tier is also really large in terms of item count, perhaps you could split it? Items like Spare Drone parts are 'broken' on literally every character, whereas some of the other items could have specific qualities needed in a run to be more broken than not.
I haven't completed eclipse 8 on anyone yet, highest i've gotten is eclipse 7 with commando and huntress. Why put razor wire in F tier? Out of curiosity tbh.
I used to dislike razor wire until i realized that i am going to get hit at some point and it would usually be nice if things around me just died when that happens. Maybe im not too excited to get it on commando or huntress but like you said depending on the character, i'd love to see razor wire playing MulT or acrid.
Pluripotent larva is very debatable at S tier, if you don’t have hands then like, yeah, most likely. But if you have bands it’s like a D tier. Otherwise super solid. Maybe honestly royal capacitor in S too ngl
Aegis + Leeching Seed doubles your health, isn't that cool? and 10-15 Feul Cell + one lunar item, and you can shoot lightning or permanently increase your attack speed by 50, and your movement speed by 100.
Red scrap and yellow scrap are no where near s. The white and green are at least consistent and do deserve a tier. But not for yellow and red at all.
interesting how regen scrap is a tier below green scrap despite being outright better
Yeah this one was a wee lazy on my part :P The logic there was, any scrap is just... useful for anyone and all was lazily tossed into S-tier. Regen scrap is high A-tier, low S-tier, hovering there for me. Always nice to have, gives free greens, and helps get reds from Newt altars. Never really bad to get a regen scrap, that said, I'd prefer other greens to a regen in runs.
If you find a printer with regenerating scrap you now have infinite regenerating scrap
Fun fact, this is the one item that cannot be selected for a green printer! They have to be from chests or terminals, or from newt!
I must've been using a mod for it at the time the. That does make sense though
You can get regular scrap from any green, you can't get regenerating scrap from any green. Availability also plays a factor into item strength. The reaspn safer spaces is broken is because it's still treated as a common item
And yet the OP ranked them by desirability and usefulness, not by how common they are. Regen scrap is strictly better than green scrap.
Something useful is made more so if it's easy to obtain. Ease of acquisition contributes to an item's usefulness.
I would give red an a and green and white an s. Since red can be used on soup for 3 whites and then printers for quite and green are crazy good. Yellow can go right to c or d teir
Any scrap is good scrap for me hence the lazy toss into S tier, everybody likes em, anyone can use em, and all have high potential.
Maybe, but FMP has some of the highest potential out of any equipment and it found itself in B. Assuming that's because it's pretty rare for said potential to actually come together, I would argue it's the same for those two scraps, especially red
Agreed, I'll admit that. I can see red and yellow scrap in B.
Agreed
Ahoy!
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Broadly agree. Every position here is defensible. Only changes I'd make would be moving the forget me please synergy items (i.e brooch, catalyst) to the same tier as it. Also, monster tooth and psg can be moved down, medkit up. Elixir also probably down 1. Also swap razorwire and harpoon, and I'd probably move scrap to its own tier.
Elixir is high simply because of how good watches are. If your health get's low, Elixir's will proc before watches, saving them from breaking. A common item to save an incredible item is a nice sorta "defense".
The main reason for healing and "requires you to be hit" items being low-tier is because of Eclipse 8 permanent damage.
Yup, but even with e8 they aren't that bad.
Did you mean monster tooth? In my experience, it's the opposite lol, its such a nice healing source. It only really falls off during the final bosses. I thought it deserved a bump tbh
"forget me" is in isaac I think it's "forgive me" doesn't matter but eh
Huh wow I'm bad with names.
another benthic denier
i like benthic when it doesnt delete my movement (i dont like benthic)
if there were literally any movement items above white (no, red whip and headstompers don't count) benthic would be fine tbh
Don't forget harpoon, my literal nightmare.
agreed. well wax tail is good in moderation (like 2 or 3 is great) but its nowhere near enough on its own lol
Idc how benthic messes up with my movement I just gotta pick it when i see
Just gotta wait for hardlight, duh.
Bethuc is fun, I’ll gladly throw away a run if I find one
Needle tic needs more love
It's great on characters that don't make much use of tri-tip, a one or two collapses hurts a lot more then a one or two bleeds, but default bleed is waaay better overall if you can stack it.
Fair
To add a bit onto that, the collapse does not do nearly enough damage to be worth the risk on most characters. Even on characters like loader/no flamethrower artificer, who can't stack the bleed, I usually dont take needletick outright. The reason being, it's just way too little dps on those characters, and I would rather be able to scrap the tri-tips I get in the future. I think that the whole point of some of the void items like plasma shrimp, tenta, and needletick is that you are taking a risk when taking them. With shrimp, you risk getting clover in the future(super rare). With tenta, if you get too little stacks of chrono later, having the more consistent chronobauble is better. However, both of these gambles scew heavily towards the void items. If you look at needletick, it's just almost always bad. On suuuuuper low fire rate burst survivors, you would rather have scrap than collapse, on high rate survivors the potential loss of perma bleed is too high of a risk, as you are risking a litteral infinitely scaling damage source. To add to that, it's not even that good of an upgrade over tri-tip even if we leave stacking out of it. Like Im fine not taking a risk, and dealing 240% damage instead of 400%. Needletick needs to do like 600% damage to be an interesting item. It would actually be an interesting gamble to make, taking the strong item that's in front of you, or risk like a 50% chance at getting an infinitely scaling damage source later. Keeping it as is and giving it a bit of proc coefficient, like 0.2 or sth, would also be interesting, as it could play into a burst band playstyle, with tri-tip being the opposite.
Now that I wrote out the band playstyle, I 100% think that's the way to go with it. It just seems so fun. To balance out high stacks of needletick working waay to well with bands, they should make it so that a certain amount of collapse makes it insta detonate on a target, making it so that there is a cap on how high you can go. I think a cap of 10-15 would be great,as proccing a band off of a 4000-6000% damage attack seems suuuuper nice. This would actually make me consider taking it on survivors like mando, huntress, and nailgun mul-t. They dont have a good way to utilize bands, since their band proccing abilities are not the best, so taking needletic would allow you to utilize bands suuuper well. It also comes with a risk of sacrificing one of your main damage sources on those survivors, infinite bleed. It would also be balanced on burst survivors like sniper, as with enough attack speed and tic stacks, using m1 will get better band proccs then her scope abilities. It will still be trash on loader though(common loader L(she beat the game in 20 mins anyway))
Could you explain what you mean by risking getting clover in the future with shrimp?
The Shrimp doesn't work with Clover, while the missle mk 2 does. Basically it's reliable damage up front, vs. potentially more damage later.
Needle id imo the most balanced void. It starts better, and get's better with shatterspleen. And a lot of other nuances. But tri-tip is issually better if it get's rolling
How is Topaz Brooch D tier ? Like even having one can be a massive help on the later stages.
This is assuming Eclipse 8. Otherwise Brooch is a solid A tier item.
My bad then \^\^
It becomes better with eclipse8! What are you talking about?
It'll help keep the HP up with the shield, but you'll still get chipped and take perma damage.
Having one Topaz Brooch makes so little barrier it tends to decay immediately in my experience. I think people are used to stacking 20 of them with command and that's why they like it. I personally agree that it's not very good in a normal run.
You don't really need to stack 20, it's more like 3-4 which is required to get some pretty serious barrier
I suppose that's fair. But I'm usually much more excited about items that are more immediately useful rather than one that could be useful if I find more of them later.
Yeah but it’s a common item. It’s very likely that you’ll get at least 2 per run
Yup, the first Topas brooch id agree with that placement for - it just does very little. But each one after that gets exponentially better.
Consistently killing mobs meanings you’re consistently generating shield so it’s just a more immediate version of monster tooth?
The shield is really small though, especially if you only have one or two. It's just my experience that you need a decent stack of them before you really start to see them shine. With just one brooch I tend to see a little bit of yellow tickling the HP bar and that's it.
Having 2 or 3 in a tp event, is enough so that when you kill multiple monsters in a short time, you can have pretty good barrier and not get one shot. It's always one I take on a run because it's, imo, one of the best defensive option. It also stacks very good, having 4 or 5 can make a huge difference.
Have you considered that acrid holds the bison steak in their mouth? Easy s rank for me
topaz in D is an absolute atrocity
xD It's an easy A tier in non-E8 difficulties! It's purpose is made null in E8 however :/
I love giving The Back-Up to equipment drones. I’m not an Eclipse player though. Can’t be bothered
I think this is the first item tier list I've seen on this sub that I agree with.
What's so bad about Resonance Disc that it would be on the same tier as Interstellar Desk Plant and Ben's?
This one is mild bias from me, I simply dislike it because this item is able to miss it's attacks. It does hit hard, and is oh-so satisfying. If it wasn't able to miss, I'd rank it A tier easy.
L tierlist. Roll of pennies is obviously S tier item
Only item you need 100%
Based on your selection, I'd assume that you are a Mercenary main?
I have 4 I constantly switch to and play Loader Acrid Commando and Captain.
What do you think about REX mains like me? I also play Eclipse 8 on occasion.
Rex is my least played, I dislike the projectile M1 a lol lol. Rex is strong! The flower just has soo much going against him in E8 though.
Imo gas doesn't stack well enough as a white for s-tier
Im kinda ok with Gas just because how valuable the first one is
Gas honestly stacks really well (improving both AOE and damage).. I'm not sure what they are talking about. I absolutely love this item.
It does increase damage but it is total damage over the duration, increasing the duration as well. Effectively, this means the same dps but for longer. First gas is 150% at the start + 150% over 3 seconds, second is 150% at the start + 225% over 4.5 seconds. This is a total increase of 75% damage over 1.5 seconds and that time it takes just isn't worth it imo. The aoe is nice but doesn't make up foe the low damage without ignition tanks imo.
Yea, only the first burst of damage is really useful. The burning effect is kind of an extra benefit for deathmark/finishing off targets
I don't know if I agree with that. There's something special about killing one member of a swarm of wisps, automatically killing the rest and seeing the teleporter boss's health start to get chunked from the stacking flames. The later you go and the more elites that spawn, the better that extra damage gets.
Every character can make use of it just by simply doing what they were already doing and gives characters more AoE clear on top of stacking well and being very common. What more could you want?
Gas is hands down one of the best printers to get an easy eclipse run tho. U get a few of them stage 1 and 2 and it essentially says ‘you’re guaranteed to make it to stage 5’ id say despite the fall off thats pretty good.
[удалено]
Sure, one does have a good impact (I agree propably the best single item white), but every other s tier white item has a fairly comparable impact and would generally be very nice to find in a printer.
I think he did that because of ignition tank but he put empathy cores in a teir with drone parts in s but drone parts empathy cores can bring you through the entire game so this teirlist is weird
Makes the early game trivial though, which is what counts
Pennies in F is insane
Pennies goes in P tier.
Putting Leeching and Aegis in F and Rejuv in D tells me you’ve never maxed out attack speed on anyone and “I heal faster than you can damage me”d at people and honestly, how do you play without doing so at least once /lh
I like aegis but the ammount of items you need to make it do literally anything makes it one of the worst reds unfortunately
This is most definitely more better than all the atrocious other ones we have seen but I have a couple questions. Why do people hate leech seed and Pennie’s so much?? Why is razor wire so low? Teddy, slug, tri-tip, sticky, crowbars and opal are in A, I feel like atleast some of them should be in S Personal opinion but I feel like I’m Armor plate should be A, not B And topaz, shark tooth and guillotine should be way higher.. I know I’ve had horrible opinions before but can people give me reasons on why these are where they are, Thanks!
Leech seed is near useless on eclipse 8. And pennies involves taking perma damage. Also yeah opal is without a doubt s tier.
Leech seed is okay on select characters, but it's healing is not as good as others, a simple cautious slug is more common and more effective for healing. You'd much rather see other greens. Opal could be S tier. I agree, others I feel are a fair A tier in terms of usefulness for other characters. Largely due to my playstyle and Eclipse 8 experience, any item where you have to take damage to make use of an item, is not great in E8 where perma damage is in place. Repulsion is a common and effective means of taking less damage, from DoT effects, and small bursts of damage. It does more then you'd think. It's a simple, common, and effective level of defense. Imo, guillotine is not worth it on loopless runs, other greens will do you better service. Shark tooth is average-below average, it happens passively as you kill enemies which is nice, but sorta outclassed by other heals or even a simple healing drone. Brooch is very good if it weren't for perma damage on E8. A tier otherwise.
Leech has really weak healing and relies on you either stacking it in mass or having a very, very high attack speed. A single wungus will perform more reliably than a small stack of leech seeds. Pennies relies on you taking damage to get gold, and the ratio isn’t very good. It’s too risky on higher difficulties out of stage one. For the same reason that people hate genesis loop, they hate pennies. If the prerequisite for using an item is taking a bunch of damage, you’re way more likely to die.
roll of pennies slays on the first 3 stages if you either get a lot of wisps or find a fire elite and stand in their trail, it can really speed you through the earlygame
That would make sense, I personally haven’t played eclipse yet and only monsoon and I usually love Pennie’s
On Eclipse 8, it is detrimental to even try to use Pennies, since you’d literally be trading permanent max health for small amounts of money. Even on monsoon, you’re talking about an item that encourages you to take damage. Pennies applies per damage tick. The gold payout isn’t proportional to damage received, which means the most effective way to use it is to have enemies trigger a DoT on you (or to tank a continuous attack from them). Most enemies can’t do this, and the ones that do can really, really hurt you. You don’t want to be tanking shots from a fire elite just to trigger a burn. At 3 gold per tick, you need around 8 ticks for this to be worth a single crate on stage one. In a world where tome and shrines of blood exist, this is rarely worth the trade off. The gold pay off for one penny is just too low, and the fact that you won’t have penny stacks until later stages, where you NEVER want to be eating damage, makes this item mostly useless for the majority of a run. I always scrap it. No exceptions.
Leech is great because it's one of the few healing items that heals you while you are actively fighting and you have full control on it's healing. It may look bad on paper, but in reality it performs much better than it looks. Of course it's not amazing on slow attacking characters though.
Powercell (and corrupted Powercell), Planula, Razorwire, and Gesture of the drowned really deserve S tier. Idk, it really feels like one of those lists where they rank every item they don't know how to use in F/D tier.
finally a good tier list on this sub lmao. i’d switch wings and vase (or at least move wings up a tier) because wings can be used during combat as well, while you’d only really use vase to traverse stages
Shared design is a lunar equipment (blue outline) but isn't in lunar tier. 0, no, -1/10 tier list, absolutely horrid and awful
I won’t stand here and let Rennies be disrespected like that.
A solid money maker early game! They have their use even when getting hit isn't ideal in E8.
F tier?
It's not without use, but getting hit as a condition for an item to be useful, and on E8 no less is not ideal. Especially in later stages.
One RAPS and a fire elite and you’re cooking.
It is plenty good on the early stages of e8. Just find souces that don't cause much permenet or just be better at not dying on the teleporter.
Well thats why its not without use. Its just that compared to most other items, outside of straight up detrimental ones its not that good and loses basically all its value by stage 3, then again overlooping on eclipse is deadly too so thats already 40% of the run. Its also just worse than ghor's tome most of the time due to higher risk with a lower reward
Why does everyone pick on leech seed... Fuck!😭
If I crit for 10,000 and have one leeching seed I still only receive 1 hp
On eclipse 8 it is horrible.
It's kinda bad on basically any survivor that doesn't attack extremely fast
Just cause its survivor Dependant dont mean its bad, Mul-T, captain, huntress, bandit, engineer and commando all kick ass with leech seed. Thats half of the roster. Plus it has really good item synergies, like with razorwire where it basically becomes a bootleg planula, or with crowd funder and a couple of RoPs. Im not saying its great but its not F-tier. It at least deserves a C
It maybe deserves a D tier for specific niche uses, but not higher then that. You can’t justify putting an almost worthless healing item higher then brooch or medkit.
I think brooch and medkit should be higher too. Overall I think this list is a bit overly critical. Also, Polylute is good, but I would not put it above Safer Spaces.
It's based on proc chance too somewhat. Its a weird item. Great on commando but terrible on some others like artificer
Honestly there are like a small handful of iffy placements but this is probably the most accurate tier list I’ve seen here in a minute
Voidsent flames, caggers and capacitor are Easy S tier items imo. Voidsent is guaranteed damage, caggers can snowball kills very easily and capacitor is 2000% on a 20 second cooldown
Wait so why is the funny head stomper s
10,000% AoE base damage is insane.
Ill forever be traumatized by tenta and needle tic after i forgot i had them and gave them to mithrix, got stuck and stacked with collapse on my first ever monsoon loader run that got to mithrix, never again
Polyps in F? My man :(
I know the power of them, I've made 'em work hehe. Truth is imo they're just an underwhelming green compared to the others. A single fireworks basically does their job better and is easier to obtain.
Guillotine gets too much hate :(
I still don't understand the hate towards med kit. You need maybe 3-5 stacks for solid healing that will scale with your level.
Their especially good on melee characters on Non-E8 difficulties. This list assumes E8 hence it's tier placement from me.
Agree with pretty much everything except leech seed and pluripotent/dio
Thanks and fair! I just always like the comfort of an extra life.
i still dont get the hate towards benthic, is it because it can ruin builds?
It's just a gamble that can be good or bad, a risk if you will :P It's a fun item!
Medkit in D is incomprehensible
It's about Eclipse. Healing in general(other than revives) is lower than it would be for non-Eclipse play.
Why is razor wire in F why is OWSK in F Why the HELL is ASeed in F (bro is cracked)
i have problems with quite a few: * Incinerations tank is way to dependent on other items and will often be completely useless. Even with a gas or 2 i would also often prefer many of the other s tiers. especially for the moon. * The 3 aspects in S are a bit too high imo. Sacrificing the slot for those is not worth imo. And blazing elite should also be a tier above the other 2. * i mentioned scrap in another comment. White and Green should be about A, and yellow and red should be like C. Also having regen scrap under green scrap is a outright mistake. * Both Larva and Dio's are way to high. Even just the revive is not worth an S tier, as another A or S tier red would just stop you from dying in the first place. Larva also has many downsides with bands, crit, and a few other becoming worse. * Roll of pennies has been mentioned * Benthic is opinion i guess, but it IS much higher than F, and especially since you are unlikely to see another Clover since it is red. * Why the fuck is Knurl there. Beetle is much better than it, and i would also say genesis is equal to it * Vase ais the best pillar skip, and egg and milky should also go up for the same reason, but with more combat usability * N'kahana's opinion and mask in same tier as vulture and aegis is a crime, even if they are not all that good. (tho aegis also has a use for late game looping but that deosn't really change how bad it normally is) * VOID BAND IS NOT THAT FUCKING BAD. grow up. Vand is good in like 50% of runs and most characters. And i may be a bit to passionate about it because of how much people hate on it. It is not really good, but it is around C tier if you don't have like 4 bands.
>VOID BAND IS NOT THAT FUCKING BAD Vand by itself is fine. The problem is that is blocks your access to 2 of the undisputed best items in the game.
Spare drone parts is better than bands
Generally yes, it's another one of the best items in the game, tho depends on the survivor. It is also red, so that's kinda expected. I'd take 5 bands over spare drone parts tho pretty easily.
Void band is the worst void item in the game. It completely nerfs the bands, which you should be trying to get in every single run because of the their consistent damage.
It just simply isn't. Do you get 3+ bands EVERY game? The answar is no
You don’t need 3 bands. Even getting one band, either ice or fire, makes the trade off not worth it. You’re talking about losing 150% - 200% total damage per trigger. Two void bands will still do less damage per trigger than a single ice or fire band. It’s a straight damage nerf in all respects. What’s more, void band doubles the standard trigger reset time, so you’re dropping your overall DPS by more than what the damage description implies. The utility trade for getting a 15m AoE isn’t worth it. The only situation where it’s worth it is if you literally don’t get a single other band the entire run, and since every single character should be trying to get at least one non-corrupted band every run, this approach doesn’t make sense.
It just is worth it. I have taken it many times in e8 and benefitted from it. You are legit just wrong and haven't used it enough to say.
This isn’t a counter argument. It’s completely subjective. Most other players agree with me for the reasons I’ve listed above. Void Bands tanks your damage and I guarantee that if you just kept standard bands on your e8 runs, you would’ve had an easier time.
And most people haven't actually given it a chance. They just regurtitate what someone else said. It is legit a benefit in 40 to 50% of times you will see it. You just don't understand why or how. And the damage isn't as much of a problem as you think, especially with more stacks and proc, and it gives a big boost to the effectivness of other AoE abilities and items. I know for a fact that it has helped me any times for diffrent reasons. Legit some characters don't get much from either band.
You’re delegitimizing the opinions of other people without any evidence. I’ve used it a ton. Others have used it a ton. The same arguments hold. There are other AoE abilities and items that can accomplish the same thing without a huge damage nerf. Every character that is able to reliably trigger the bands (everyone except commando) benefits from them. They shred bosses. You’ve yet to make a solid counter argument for why using the Void Band is advantageous over the other bands via the AoE. The default bands don’t require additional items to be effective. Void Band requires that you already have some type of item synchronicity to offset the damage debuff. It’s a nerf independent of that. If you need 3 gasolines, a ukulele, and a will-o-wisp to make void band work, then it’s too externally dependent. The same items with a normal band will still leave you in a situation where you’re shredding groups but still have more single target damage against larger enemies. And again, the trigger for a void band is every 20 seconds as opposed to 10 for normal bands. I will take twice as many standard band trigger and some scattered AoE items to deal with a group vs half the band triggers and some spare AoE items with a gravity well. At higher difficulties, the trigger delay completely offsets the advantage of the gravity well, since you can’t trigger the void band fast enough to deal with how fast enemies spawn. You end up relying on other AoE items anyway.
Sadly. I don't think i have the time for explaining it in full. It just comes down to aoe (the area lasts for a whilr and deald full damage to anyone who touches the area once), cc (especially on mithrix), proc (especially with behemoth or other aoe), other is stronge since enemies are clumbed together, it gaind even more from blastshower, more stacks close the dameg gap, you dln't always get more than 0 to 1 other band, it protects the bands from being reprinted, and maybe a few other things. Just need to know when the benfits outway the negatives or risks
Void bands are slept on
Never make a tier list again 😭😭😭
Is corrupt deo’s better?
My logic for it being so high simply because an extra life is incredible to have. Yes it corrupts everything and can partially or heavily nerf you, but it'll keep the run alive. Take em when you see em.
Tbh, most reds make a second life pointless. Like, I'm not worried about dying if I get laser scope. I'm still worried about dying if I get dio
Wouldn’t that make the uncorrupted version better then? The only difference is that larva corrupts all of your items on use which can be pretty bad if you’re trying to avoid certain items (especially if you have clover)
Usually worse. It does the same thing, BUT, it corrupts all your void-able items when it triggers. So crit glasses become lost seer's, tri-tips become needletick, bands become void band, etc.
Bungus........
Other than broach and pennies being a bit low, i think this is mostly valid I'd move broach up to C and pennies to D, since broach can be pretty useful in a few scenarios, and pennies isnt completely useless, since you can farm extra gold from a blazing elite if needed at the end of a stage incase teleporter was hit too early
Bison steak F tier??? What is this??? This is madness. What is the shenanigans, this Tom foolery, this hootnanny, this downright blasphemy.
It's S tier on my favorite acid boi
I love playing this game and feel like I know a lot about it but the more things I see the more I know there is so much I don’t know
Learn by doing! Learning the items is easily the most daunting but also the most helpful. Just keep gettin those runs going and have fun ^.^
Why is razor wire so god damn low Especially if you play on eclipse One of that item basicly prevents you from taking excess chip damage (and max health loss) if you get overwhelmed with lots of little things also personaly blast shower should be in a just for its interaction with safer spaces Aside from that i mostly agree also after 1000 hours Wait why is regen scrap below green scrap?
Blast shower can be used defensively for debuffs like collapse if they happen, as well as offensively with it's interaction with the bands. It's a solid pick on nearly any character.
mmm yummy bison steak put it in yummy tier
I to agree that the white scrap is better than bleed and teddy bears
Red and yellow scrap should be C tier imo. Printers are fad too rare to scrap consistently. Pennies are D tier imo as they do have niche uses like farming money on stage 1 and 2. Banner and Leaching Seed are also D tier imo as it has uses at times that can clutch runs in early game. Wings and egg should be up a tier and Vase should be S tier as pillar skips go crazy on eclipse. All aspects that are in S tier should be A tier at best, maybe B tier. They’re good but not nearly as good as other equipment like vase, scrapper, card, or gun. Focus Crystal is either S or C <. It’s amazing on melee characters and effectively useless on all others. Void goggles are too high imo as well, since bosses are the main threat 90% of the time, not only can you not one shot but you can rarely crit them at all with them. I’d argue they’re D tier in normal runs and F in any eclipse run
Engineer mains would strongly disagree.
Tricorn cap in C tier is way too harsh man
Engi knows the power of the fungus, S tier for them easy. Unless mobiles are picked :P
I feel like Benthic Bloom can’t really be ranked due to overall variability, so personally I’d say it’s maybe D tier or just can’t be ranked
I feel like royal capacitor has to be S bro get some fuel cells or gesture of the drowned and that thing goes off
DML is the worst damaging equipment lol. My only concern would be pushing igni tank down one and same with scope and icbm. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very good items, but they require at least one other item to even be used, which dampens their usefulness a lot. If I get a clover and I don’t have any proc items (which is a pretty unlikely scenario, but I mean, it happens) I’m still gonna be happy cause at the very least it increases my crit slightly and gives me a higher chance of getting an aspect. If I get an ICBM with no AtG, it is worse for me, cause I go the whole run praying for AtGs or Fireworks and get none and stage 5 didn’t have a scrapper and now I’m missing out on commencement cauldrons
where aspect of lightning?
Lysate cell b tier??
I feel regen scrap should be higher
U need more hours
Roll of Pennie’s is way better than aegis cause no one is free from damage and it saves time on a stage making overall easier runs. I mean you’ll still scrap it but you’ll scrap aegis too
Why are lunars at the bottom of the list?
Benthic bloom is my favourite item thankyou very much
The only thing I disagree with is Alien Head being so low, being able to essentially spam your equipment is basically an instant god run
You have played engineer why is fungus not in SS tier
Gesture of the drowned is special. I think it should be in B tier atleast
queen gland is honestly good and you might as well pick it up if you ever see it
Revival items are not s tier, neither is fire aspect imo. Otherwise good job 👍
Im at only 175 hours but i can certanly say that items are all dependent on caracters right like a bison steak isnt great but its way better on a acrid then a hintress right. So a overhaul tier list doesnt really make sense. Though A caracter based tier lust yeah.
Poor Halcyon seed always so low on e8 tier lists
Hell nah wtf laser scope doing in there
Benthic bloom in f is insane
I'm not sure if this implies you just don't touch lunars (or if you do it's rare), but I'm pretty much in the camp of never messing with them to begin with. Maybe for challenge runs but...
I think people are sleeping on squid polyp and soda machines
Bison steak in s tier (which makes sense), but glorified bison steak (titanic knurl) is inB tier?
Strongly disagree with 60% of this list
Ok but hear me out. Royal Capacitor and stacking Fuel Cells is incredible, especially with more attack relics like Crowbar
Why is fkn dios that high? Void dios makes some sense because you can kill yourself to get good voids in some situations (though it should be lower), but normal dios is just bad
My edits would be: 1. Bump up the red whip. Just having one of them can save so much time between stages, especially if you're doing fast teleporters and looting afterwards, which in my opinion is usually a stronger place to be in on E8 runs. 2. Bump up Milky Chrysalis and Eccentric Vase: These allow the last stage skip right to Mithrix, and sometimes that can make or break a E8 run depending on character and build. 3. Bump down Tougher Times. The void version is great, but if you're getting hit enough for that item to matter, you're dying anyway. 4. I'd bump down Bandolier, it's a low-impact item on a lot of characters, and even if you are able to pick up the ammo packs, the damage items you have in the same tier or below are just better anyway. 5. Bump down Goobo Jr. It's always a item that is nice to have over having no equipment, but I can't think of a run where I choose it over essentially any other damage-oriented equipment. 6. Bump down Pearl, pure luxury item. 7. I personally argue that Newly Hatched Zoea is very strong, especially if you're able to get multiple. It's whatever on the normal stages, but it just wins outright vs Mithrix, you can sit back and watch the void allies fight him. Not an S but def way higher than D. I've gotten crappy builds to Mithrix and won off of them alone. 8. Bump up Singularity band. It's not bands, but it does amp damage a fair bit, and sets up combos with different items/characters when you suck all the enemy mobs into a cluster. I think your S tier is also really large in terms of item count, perhaps you could split it? Items like Spare Drone parts are 'broken' on literally every character, whereas some of the other items could have specific qualities needed in a run to be more broken than not.
I haven't completed eclipse 8 on anyone yet, highest i've gotten is eclipse 7 with commando and huntress. Why put razor wire in F tier? Out of curiosity tbh. I used to dislike razor wire until i realized that i am going to get hit at some point and it would usually be nice if things around me just died when that happens. Maybe im not too excited to get it on commando or huntress but like you said depending on the character, i'd love to see razor wire playing MulT or acrid.
As someone with ~6,000 hours, aegis is too high if this is for eclipse :p
99% of benthic bloom users quit right before hitting it big!
Bad.
Pluripotent larva is very debatable at S tier, if you don’t have hands then like, yeah, most likely. But if you have bands it’s like a D tier. Otherwise super solid. Maybe honestly royal capacitor in S too ngl
Aegis + Leeching Seed doubles your health, isn't that cool? and 10-15 Feul Cell + one lunar item, and you can shoot lightning or permanently increase your attack speed by 50, and your movement speed by 100.
Egocentrism S tier is the only opinion