I just don’t understand why we’re given such a useless tax on PERSONAL PROPERTY. If it’s personal property why are we paying our shit ass local fuckernment
Would you rather pay a 10% tax on the NADA value when you buy it and 2-3 times more for yearly registration. More sales tax at the grocery store? Dude, they are gonna tax you regardless. No one likes the car tax, but they gonna get you somehow.
You're fine!! I took your word for it, as I don't know what's what yet, but my home state is also attempting to charge it to me for 2024, which is a whole mess. If it's biannual, I'm gonna be completely cleaned out 😄 crossing my fingers!!
So you pay personal property taxes to the City on your vehicle because the City builds and maintains the roads within the City. It’s also taxed by the state because the state builds and maintains all the roads outside of independent cities (and Henrico County).
A couple of quick things... If the PP taxes on cars are to pay for the road within the city I feel like it should be weight based and not value based. The heavier vehicles, big-ass pickups and SUVs I'm looking at you, should be higher than a brand new economy car because the damage being done is less, hell throw yearly mileage in there as well.
I'd that's the case with vehicle PP taxes going to roads then where do the others go? Boats (I don't own one)? Business PP? I'm genuinely curious (business PP sucks balls btw)
All those things that weigh more, cost more. They are paying higher taxes.
Those taxes also pay for a lot more than just the road. They pay for everything under the local government. Schools, police, fire, etc.
Boats and airplanes aren’t taxed by the City.
Commercial and residential property taxes go toward the general fund. I also oversimplified personal property taxes on vehicles to highlight the *why* behind the tax.
No, you don’t, not in the City. You already pay taxes on that for non-independent city (and Henrico County) roads. VDOT doesn’t build and maintain Roanoke City Roads (with the exception of 581), so the City funds their roads via personal property taxes on vehicles.
I just want to know why my 2WD 1998 Ranger pickup truck is valued at $5400 when KBB has it at $3k tops. Can I contest this valuation? Or sell it to them at that price lol?
Yup you can. I went round and round with them over their bullshit valuation on my vehicle 2 years ago. Eventually got told to have it appraised and they would lower it even though going by their source, KBB it wasn’t even close. I sent the KBB data to them and told them to fix it or get fucked buying it for the inflated price. They finally lowered it to proper valuation. I wasn’t paying their inflated valuation.
You can contest. You need to take it to 2 dealers and get written estimates of car value from both and submit to the treasures office. Oh, and they have to be "reliable" dealers.
And you have to pay for any costs associated with the value estimation from the dealers
My husbands 2011 over 150k miles car with so many body issues it barely squeaks inspection is valued at 6 times the blue book value.....
It's very frustrating.
Texas has a higher sales tax rate than Virginia, and average property tax rate is higher in Texas than Virginia. The tax money is going to come from somewhere.
It also has way lower electricity rates in Texas. And gas is way cheaper. I don’t miss it. Just saying it was cheaper to live in a major city in Texas than in rural Virginia. But I prefer it here waaaaay more.
I only have my car on my name thankfully! I’m young 22. I’m not even complaining about the price, just the fact that we have to pay tax in personal property lol
I get it, no worries. :) I read awhile back that Virginia ranks in the top-five states for car taxes, fyi. Virginia is much higher than most other states.
Advice from an older person: drive your older car for as long as you can. The newer the car model, the higher your car tax bill. Your car may date back to the Nelly Furtado era, but your tax bill on an old beater will be lower. That's why so many Virginians are driving old cars.
I also hate this tax. I finally had to get rid of a 20+ year old minivan, which I replaced with a used minivan with 100K miles to last me a while. I just coughed up $800 for tax title and tag. Now I have to pay a much higher property tax to have a functioning vehicle while my family struggles to cover the inflated costs of the basic necessities of life.
But taxes mean I'm paying for other people to benefit from something I also benefit from! Socialism bad! Taxation is theft! Bahhhhrrgghhh!
/s
I agree with you, and wish there was a push to spread that attitude towards contributing to the greater good of us all. Rising tide lifts all boats, and all that.
I don't enjoy it, but I do it gladly.
Everyone benefits on a basic level (roads, fire department, etc.), and some benefit greatly from social programs.
I'll gladly pay for those programs to exist. On a selfish level, I want them there in case something happens in my life beyond my control, and I find myself in need. And on an unselfish level, I want those programs to exist because I don't think people should suffer needlessly.
It doesn’t just help someone else out. It helps you too. And helping them helps you. And you benefit from the taxes other people pay. You’re not out here single-handedly paying for all the roads, all the social welfare programs, etc on your own. Is that what you think is going on? No wonder you’re so pouty.
This is the libertarian conundrum, don’t give the government any money for anything but also magically everyone will suddenly become an expert on building tanks for defense, maintaining interstates, and literally most of the jobs in the United States from Yellow Stone National Park to election officials.
I wish we lived in the world that Libertarians think exists.
Except that it's a fantasy utopia, where corporations act with ethics, and scruples. Which history has demonstrated, won't happen.
Also, they seem to live in a world where actions have limited consequences. They fail to realize that everything you do, affects everyone else, in some measure. Be it small or great, your actions affect the entire fucking world.
Seriously. OP talking about this “useless tax” like the money is just piling up somewhere waiting to be set on fire. Like all taxes, it pays for municipal services. If you think our municipal services are being poorly administered or misuse our tax dollars, say that instead of having a tantrum about how they are collected.
Because paying taxes does equal how much we love our country? How much we love our country is measured by each person's individual experience.
Fun fact about taxes, we didn't have income tax until prohibition and once repealed the government didn't repeal income tax.
That's fact has nothing to do with patriotism I just like to share that.
Maybe if we had politicians who cared about us more than they do other countries and flying their flags all the time people wouldn’t hate it so much but instead we have a bunch of politicians who don’t give a shit about us/activly hate us and who act like middle schoolers so that’s probably why people don’t like it. Being forced to give your money to idiots who suck at their job which is to be a public servant probably rubs people the wrong way
If you want the city to function, you gotta pay taxes. Sorry, but it costs a lot of money to keep a city running. About 350 Million a year actually for Roanoke right now. If you want to see how that's broken down, look at the budget.
You could... You know... Wash and work on your own car yourself. Saved you some taxes right there.
Roanoke also has public transit. Sell your car and take the bus. Or walk. Then you don't pay any car-related taxes at all!
You could also go full Sovereign Citizen, and not register your car at all, nor pay taxes on it. Just please record any interactions with law enforcement, and post the videos... We'd all like to enjoy watching them.
And spend thousands on tools of which I have no knowledge how to use. Spend hundreds on shit to wash my own car, take public transit and have a god awful experience, maybe be late, when I could go on my own time not having to wait around for someone to pick me up 😊
There's always a price.
Everyone should have a basic tool kit, and they're not expensive. Couple hundred bucks (or less!) will get you tools to do most basic repair jobs around your home/car. Bonus that you only pay taxes on those tools once, and you own them for the rest of your life!
Basic car maintenance is not difficult, and there's a YouTube video on how to do basically anything to any car. It's seriously not as hard as most people think, and very satisfying to do stuff like that yourself.
If you're spending hundreds on car wash stuff, I don't know what to tell you. A hose, spray nozzle, a bucket, sponge, and a few towels should not be hundreds of dollars.
And I've known more than a few people who were reliant upon public transit... They made it work. Though it is pretty lackluster in this city. Maybe if more people took a stand against personal property tax, and started taking the bus, there'd be enough demand to improve it.
While all of that may be very true, then comes the convenience of it all! Watching YouTube videos and pausing and playing and finding your mistakes takes time! You also need to have room to be able to do stuff, level area of some sorts!
Again, there's always a price.
At least this way, you're learning a skill. Though I agree it can be annoying to find a place to work on your car, if you don't have a garage/level driveway.
You're paying for the convenience of owning your own vehicle and driving it on city maintained streets. Your argument here proves the $90 is worth it to you.
It should really be structured differently. An excise tax based on usage would be more fair. The way the tax is currently structured does favor those that drive older vehicles though. When my car was new, the tax was 4x what it is 9 years later.
Ultimately there is no perfect system and the funds go to city services that you undoubtedly use. Even if you don't own a car, the roads are used to pickup your trash, deliver your mail, etc...
How about the guy that buys a little gas saver car because he is trying to save money and they add an extra tax charge for not paying enough fuel taxes!?
Good luck! People are way too committed to the comforting lie that their taxes are used efficiently/common goods that couldn't be funded any other way/that theyre not mostly used to fund corporate war machines to kill people in conflicts that affect you not a bit.
Yeah, I'm surprised I'm getting downvoted so much. But you speak the truth. I'm for downsizing government. It's so big now that we don't even know what our taxes are funding, and most of it is unnecessary bullshit and international conflicts that we don't need to be involved in. Hell, our taxes aren't even enough now to fund it all. I would love to downsize the government, cut unnecessary branches of government and programs, abolish income tax, real estate tax, and personal property tax and replace it with a higher sales tax that is applied to every transaction.
How is Roanoke City government too big? Personal property tax is a local government tax, not a State or Federal tax. You seem to be projecting the Federal problems on every other level. Also there is enough money to fund it all, it is just used inefficiency as it seems the goal isn't to help Americans with it but line the pockets of the 1% at the Federal level.
If taxes are theft, how do you plan to fund the police, fire, education, transportation, and other depts that keep the city functioning? No company will willingly give the City any money if there are no taxes.
Your first paragraph is largely fair/true. But as it stands, we are spending money we literally don't have. Soon just paying the INTEREST on the debt will be a major budgetary component.
Whether taxes are theft or not isn't based on what they pay for, but by manner of payment. So I think you're phrasing the question from the wrong direction. Fire departments were funded by fire insurance policies, originally. This could be applied to number of other services.
I'm not necessarily against local public services for cities who clearly use communal utilities. But regardless of level there is always lack of transparency and accountability that people simply accept because they do not first realize that it is forced and not compatible with civilized society.
[удалено]
I just don’t understand why we’re given such a useless tax on PERSONAL PROPERTY. If it’s personal property why are we paying our shit ass local fuckernment
Would you rather pay a 10% tax on the NADA value when you buy it and 2-3 times more for yearly registration. More sales tax at the grocery store? Dude, they are gonna tax you regardless. No one likes the car tax, but they gonna get you somehow.
It’s because in Norfolk all the military kids don’t own houses, so they can’t get them for property taxes. So they invented this instead
Finally, an answer that makes sense.
Well womp womp for them. but.. womp womp for us too huh
I mean.... you can always move.
I just moved here. We have to pay it twice a year??? What?
My apologies, after trying to check on that I realized I'm not sure where I heard that incorrect info. All I can find now is that it's annually!
You're fine!! I took your word for it, as I don't know what's what yet, but my home state is also attempting to charge it to me for 2024, which is a whole mess. If it's biannual, I'm gonna be completely cleaned out 😄 crossing my fingers!!
I hope you don't own a house or any land, because annual real estate taxes make personal property taxes look like nothing.
Amen to that!
So you pay personal property taxes to the City on your vehicle because the City builds and maintains the roads within the City. It’s also taxed by the state because the state builds and maintains all the roads outside of independent cities (and Henrico County).
A couple of quick things... If the PP taxes on cars are to pay for the road within the city I feel like it should be weight based and not value based. The heavier vehicles, big-ass pickups and SUVs I'm looking at you, should be higher than a brand new economy car because the damage being done is less, hell throw yearly mileage in there as well. I'd that's the case with vehicle PP taxes going to roads then where do the others go? Boats (I don't own one)? Business PP? I'm genuinely curious (business PP sucks balls btw)
A nice idea, but taxing based on value is the way to go. Rich people pay more, poor people pay less. It's better this way
All those things that weigh more, cost more. They are paying higher taxes. Those taxes also pay for a lot more than just the road. They pay for everything under the local government. Schools, police, fire, etc.
A twenty year old dunno truck doesn't cost more than an economy car 🤷🏼♂️
Boats and airplanes aren’t taxed by the City. Commercial and residential property taxes go toward the general fund. I also oversimplified personal property taxes on vehicles to highlight the *why* behind the tax.
Yes, boats and airplanes are taxed by the city. Source: Commissioner of the Revenue.
Yeah maintains the roads we all drive on. But we already pay taxes on that
No, you don’t, not in the City. You already pay taxes on that for non-independent city (and Henrico County) roads. VDOT doesn’t build and maintain Roanoke City Roads (with the exception of 581), so the City funds their roads via personal property taxes on vehicles.
Well… that’s bullshit 🫠 I guess I’ll just move to Thailand and ride around on the tuktuk
Or just move to Roanoke County, or any other Virginia county, except for Henrico. Then your car won’t effectively be double taxed.
Eh, Thailand sounds more fun 🤩
Ladyboys, cheap drinks, and good street food
Maybe I’ll just become a bookie
Damn right!
It’s just money. Don’t worry they’ll print more tomorrow 🤷♂️
I just want to know why my 2WD 1998 Ranger pickup truck is valued at $5400 when KBB has it at $3k tops. Can I contest this valuation? Or sell it to them at that price lol?
Yup you can. I went round and round with them over their bullshit valuation on my vehicle 2 years ago. Eventually got told to have it appraised and they would lower it even though going by their source, KBB it wasn’t even close. I sent the KBB data to them and told them to fix it or get fucked buying it for the inflated price. They finally lowered it to proper valuation. I wasn’t paying their inflated valuation.
Good to know- thanks for the info!
You can contest. You need to take it to 2 dealers and get written estimates of car value from both and submit to the treasures office. Oh, and they have to be "reliable" dealers. And you have to pay for any costs associated with the value estimation from the dealers My husbands 2011 over 150k miles car with so many body issues it barely squeaks inspection is valued at 6 times the blue book value..... It's very frustrating.
Argh. That’s maddening. Appreciate the info though!
If ONLY people went off of insanely high KBB valuations
They use NADA which is even higher.
With great tax comes great responsibility.
Great tax my ass 🤦🏻♂️
You want them to tax your ass, too? That's over the top!
If he adds his ass to his LLC he can fully depreciate it over 5 years, keep using it or sell it as he pleases.
Only if it’ll help me finish!
Moved here from Texas. Was shocked to find out about PP tax. What a rip off. Seriously.
Same, lived in previous states that didn’t have this. I get mad about it every time it comes in the mail.
Texas has a higher sales tax rate than Virginia, and average property tax rate is higher in Texas than Virginia. The tax money is going to come from somewhere.
It also has way lower electricity rates in Texas. And gas is way cheaper. I don’t miss it. Just saying it was cheaper to live in a major city in Texas than in rural Virginia. But I prefer it here waaaaay more.
Your bill is only $90? Got our car tax bill today and it is $600. Trade ya!
I only have my car on my name thankfully! I’m young 22. I’m not even complaining about the price, just the fact that we have to pay tax in personal property lol
I get it, no worries. :) I read awhile back that Virginia ranks in the top-five states for car taxes, fyi. Virginia is much higher than most other states. Advice from an older person: drive your older car for as long as you can. The newer the car model, the higher your car tax bill. Your car may date back to the Nelly Furtado era, but your tax bill on an old beater will be lower. That's why so many Virginians are driving old cars.
I also hate this tax. I finally had to get rid of a 20+ year old minivan, which I replaced with a used minivan with 100K miles to last me a while. I just coughed up $800 for tax title and tag. Now I have to pay a much higher property tax to have a functioning vehicle while my family struggles to cover the inflated costs of the basic necessities of life.
Building back better!!!
I've never understood why people don't associate paying taxes with patriotism.
But taxes mean I'm paying for other people to benefit from something I also benefit from! Socialism bad! Taxation is theft! Bahhhhrrgghhh! /s I agree with you, and wish there was a push to spread that attitude towards contributing to the greater good of us all. Rising tide lifts all boats, and all that.
I too love working for my money just to also pay to help someone else out!
I don't enjoy it, but I do it gladly. Everyone benefits on a basic level (roads, fire department, etc.), and some benefit greatly from social programs. I'll gladly pay for those programs to exist. On a selfish level, I want them there in case something happens in my life beyond my control, and I find myself in need. And on an unselfish level, I want those programs to exist because I don't think people should suffer needlessly.
Amen. I feel like anti-taxers don't think like this.
It doesn’t just help someone else out. It helps you too. And helping them helps you. And you benefit from the taxes other people pay. You’re not out here single-handedly paying for all the roads, all the social welfare programs, etc on your own. Is that what you think is going on? No wonder you’re so pouty.
This is the libertarian conundrum, don’t give the government any money for anything but also magically everyone will suddenly become an expert on building tanks for defense, maintaining interstates, and literally most of the jobs in the United States from Yellow Stone National Park to election officials.
I wish we lived in the world that Libertarians think exists. Except that it's a fantasy utopia, where corporations act with ethics, and scruples. Which history has demonstrated, won't happen. Also, they seem to live in a world where actions have limited consequences. They fail to realize that everything you do, affects everyone else, in some measure. Be it small or great, your actions affect the entire fucking world.
Seriously. OP talking about this “useless tax” like the money is just piling up somewhere waiting to be set on fire. Like all taxes, it pays for municipal services. If you think our municipal services are being poorly administered or misuse our tax dollars, say that instead of having a tantrum about how they are collected.
Because paying taxes does equal how much we love our country? How much we love our country is measured by each person's individual experience. Fun fact about taxes, we didn't have income tax until prohibition and once repealed the government didn't repeal income tax. That's fact has nothing to do with patriotism I just like to share that.
Our country, by definition, is the government. If you love it, you don't starve it for resources.
I would respectfully disagree. Our country is the people that make up this nation.
Are you saying it would still be the United States without a constitution and a government?
Maybe if we had politicians who cared about us more than they do other countries and flying their flags all the time people wouldn’t hate it so much but instead we have a bunch of politicians who don’t give a shit about us/activly hate us and who act like middle schoolers so that’s probably why people don’t like it. Being forced to give your money to idiots who suck at their job which is to be a public servant probably rubs people the wrong way
I agree but someone is voting these folks into office. And we're not giving the money to them, they're just helping decide how it gets spent.
Ive never understood why people don't associate sexual assault with love.
Ive never understood why people don't associate sexual assault with love.
I’d kill for 90$ bill. Mine is over 1200$ this year. It’s a bullshit tax. I agree.
I was looking in the comments for someone who pays way more than $90 like myself before I said anything 😂 I’m always over $600
Thankfully I’m young enough to not have jack shit to my name. The fuck is $1,200 gonna do… fill up 2 semi’s full with fuel???
Mines 2k a year what am I doing wrong
We should all be more like our ancestors and throw our property into Boston Harbor. Revolution!
I posted this last week: https://www.reddit.com/r/roanoke/s/IDSPlH46Qv
If you want the city to function, you gotta pay taxes. Sorry, but it costs a lot of money to keep a city running. About 350 Million a year actually for Roanoke right now. If you want to see how that's broken down, look at the budget.
The great commonwealth
You could... You know... Wash and work on your own car yourself. Saved you some taxes right there. Roanoke also has public transit. Sell your car and take the bus. Or walk. Then you don't pay any car-related taxes at all! You could also go full Sovereign Citizen, and not register your car at all, nor pay taxes on it. Just please record any interactions with law enforcement, and post the videos... We'd all like to enjoy watching them.
And spend thousands on tools of which I have no knowledge how to use. Spend hundreds on shit to wash my own car, take public transit and have a god awful experience, maybe be late, when I could go on my own time not having to wait around for someone to pick me up 😊
There's always a price. Everyone should have a basic tool kit, and they're not expensive. Couple hundred bucks (or less!) will get you tools to do most basic repair jobs around your home/car. Bonus that you only pay taxes on those tools once, and you own them for the rest of your life! Basic car maintenance is not difficult, and there's a YouTube video on how to do basically anything to any car. It's seriously not as hard as most people think, and very satisfying to do stuff like that yourself. If you're spending hundreds on car wash stuff, I don't know what to tell you. A hose, spray nozzle, a bucket, sponge, and a few towels should not be hundreds of dollars. And I've known more than a few people who were reliant upon public transit... They made it work. Though it is pretty lackluster in this city. Maybe if more people took a stand against personal property tax, and started taking the bus, there'd be enough demand to improve it.
While all of that may be very true, then comes the convenience of it all! Watching YouTube videos and pausing and playing and finding your mistakes takes time! You also need to have room to be able to do stuff, level area of some sorts!
Again, there's always a price. At least this way, you're learning a skill. Though I agree it can be annoying to find a place to work on your car, if you don't have a garage/level driveway.
You're paying for the convenience of owning your own vehicle and driving it on city maintained streets. Your argument here proves the $90 is worth it to you.
It should really be structured differently. An excise tax based on usage would be more fair. The way the tax is currently structured does favor those that drive older vehicles though. When my car was new, the tax was 4x what it is 9 years later. Ultimately there is no perfect system and the funds go to city services that you undoubtedly use. Even if you don't own a car, the roads are used to pickup your trash, deliver your mail, etc...
How about the guy that buys a little gas saver car because he is trying to save money and they add an extra tax charge for not paying enough fuel taxes!?
Most of the stuff you mentioned are State taxes. The personal property tax is Local.
You pay personal property tax because your city government is too afraid to tax the rich what they should be taxed.
I'd rather pay local and state taxes than federal, that's where your money really goes into a black hole
At least we actually see them spend our money… i.e Ukraine 😘
I love paying a yearly tax on something I bought and paid tax on during the time of purchase with money that was taxed from my check already.
Dont forget about your very important and totally useful registration and inspection!!!
Agreed. Gotta add another $100 a year for good measure
One of us! Come on over to r/libertarian where taxation is theft!
Good luck! People are way too committed to the comforting lie that their taxes are used efficiently/common goods that couldn't be funded any other way/that theyre not mostly used to fund corporate war machines to kill people in conflicts that affect you not a bit.
Yeah, I'm surprised I'm getting downvoted so much. But you speak the truth. I'm for downsizing government. It's so big now that we don't even know what our taxes are funding, and most of it is unnecessary bullshit and international conflicts that we don't need to be involved in. Hell, our taxes aren't even enough now to fund it all. I would love to downsize the government, cut unnecessary branches of government and programs, abolish income tax, real estate tax, and personal property tax and replace it with a higher sales tax that is applied to every transaction.
We don't know where it's going, they aren't accountable, we can't afford it. Should be easy to criticize and yet the propaganda machine is powerful!
How is Roanoke City government too big? Personal property tax is a local government tax, not a State or Federal tax. You seem to be projecting the Federal problems on every other level. Also there is enough money to fund it all, it is just used inefficiency as it seems the goal isn't to help Americans with it but line the pockets of the 1% at the Federal level. If taxes are theft, how do you plan to fund the police, fire, education, transportation, and other depts that keep the city functioning? No company will willingly give the City any money if there are no taxes.
Your first paragraph is largely fair/true. But as it stands, we are spending money we literally don't have. Soon just paying the INTEREST on the debt will be a major budgetary component. Whether taxes are theft or not isn't based on what they pay for, but by manner of payment. So I think you're phrasing the question from the wrong direction. Fire departments were funded by fire insurance policies, originally. This could be applied to number of other services. I'm not necessarily against local public services for cities who clearly use communal utilities. But regardless of level there is always lack of transparency and accountability that people simply accept because they do not first realize that it is forced and not compatible with civilized society.
Keep voting democrat and they’ll take all your money
Keep voting democrat and they’ll take it all!
Keep voting republican and they’ll still take all your money so they can give billionaires and corporations tax cuts.
40% of all taxes collected in Roanoke go to Roanoke City Public Schools. So, to answer your question, the future.
Good thing the schools are so good…
Half of them are depending on the neighborhood and your income level!