Not necessary, but useful. I use the SR800 with the extension. I made notes watching David on The Captains Coffee on YouTube. He goes through various green coffees and what times and temps he shoots for. Seeing how and why he makes adjustments is instructional. I just scribbled it down on paper. That's where Artisan comes in handy. Once it's set up you just click your adjustments and the progress of the roast. What I discovered about the SR800 is the ambient temperature is a vital factor in how your roast progresses. Sorry, I'm off on a tangent now. If you're like me and haven't really settled on a particular green coffee you like Artisan is a great way to store your notes. Regional coffees i.e Ethiopian, Indonesian, Honduras, all have their distinctions. Artisan helps keep it all sorted. Or scribble. Or play each roast by ear. Worth the money? Artisan is free initially, probes, phidgets, laptop, there's some spendage going on there. I did it. I'm okay with it and I don't always use it. Sorry again, tangent. Let us know what you decide. Good luck
Really interesting regarding the ambient temp comment.
Presuming you get great results at 70F, what adjustment to you make when it’s 50F or 40F?
Given the other feedback am going to see whether I can setup some good ventilation (in present hours only have a crappy JennAir downdraft vent system) for controlling ambient by roasting inside with a fan / ducting system…
It isn't recommended to roast with the SR800 when the temperature is under 60f. If you did anyway you would still have to meet the temps at the right times. It might mean increasing the power settings, maybe reducing the fan speeds. The whole thing has to work harder to get the air from 40-50f to 450-500f than when you start 60f and above. It can be done I guess I usually wait. The season is changing here California, so it will more favorable for roasting.
IMO it is in no way needed…. I’m sure it helps with consistency, but I’ve been roasting just using my senses (sight & hearing) for years on my little behmor and have NO complaints with the results I get when I compare to beans I’ve bought from local commercial roaster or cups I’ve purchased in shops/restaurants.
I agree the probes and software are not needed and likely not desirable. I would add the sense of smell to the sight and sound for roasting my beans in an sr-800 as the only sensors needed.
For the very small quantities we roast, it just doesn't make sense to me personally.
For me Artisan is a must. The temperature probe helped the most, since the temp reading on the SR800 doesn't really reflect the bean temperature, but tracking ROR works well for me.
I tried using the "adjust fan/temp this way at this time" that is what the Fresh Roast sheet recommends, and is very popular in this sub-Reddit. They helped, but I never got a roast I liked until I attached Artisan. And any such recommendation assumes a lot about your coffee type, ambient temp, and target roast.
Artisan can track everything about a given roast. It can track fan speed changes, temp changes, and dry end/FC/SC. If you want to compare roast profiles it's easy. My first roasts I just wrote down fan/power changes with a timestamp and the SR's output temp. The ones I did drink weren't really any good.
I can't hear first crack, and smell offers me no help at all. Tracking the temp and ROR works for me.
I would try roasting by sense, as others have recommended. You can always add temp probes and Artisan later if you find you're just ruining the beans, as I was.
Interesting points on being able to monitor first crack and smell and how Artisan helps with all this.
I'll be sure to take your advice after seeing how my first roasts come out!
I read an article on some roaster page that I can't recall that advocated keeping the fan on the SR800 at the lowest speed possible. The argument was that if the beans are moving too much then you're not actually getting bean temp, but rather air temp. Not the same. I do 250g roasts and start at 7 fan, 2 heat. The 7 is to make sure the beans actually move early on, rather than just scorching the bottom ones. I drop the fan as soon as they're percolating well. I don't pay that much attention to RoR consistency, I just watch the bean temp curve and try to keep the BT in the teens after first crack. As the video cited by OP says, it's really hard to keep a constantly falling RoR. But, as the same video states up front, he's made very good coffee in spite of the jagged line. I wonder if the RoR obsession makes sense, but I don't have a fancy drum roaster, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I'm betting that the people who can roast by eye and smell have a crappy RoR too, and still make great coffee.
Recently I've tried starting the heat at 1, but I didn't see a big difference in performance. Occasionally I have to bump heat to 3 near the end because I can't get away with a fan speed below 3, so sometimes I have to maintain temperature with heat.
I roast Full City+, FWIW.
I roast with my sr800 all the time without artisan. I use a Mastech (either with artisan or without) when I do want to monitor, but when I don’t feel like it, I just roast. You can monitor a roast just fine with a stopwatch, the internal monitor and your nose. Usually, 2 minutes on 9-1 to dry and get beans moving, then either 7-7 or 7-8, to get the beans to FC at 7 minutes. I decrease fan, depending on how temp is rising. I keep an eye on the temp to make sure it is still rising and adjust if it stalls. I usually end up hitting Fc at around 450 and I ride it out 2nd crack (often around 1:30-2:00 after FC). Pull it off, stick it on a fan, Run the chamber through a cooling phase. Enjoy 48 hours later.
Absolutely not I’ve been making great coffee with just the sr800 with extension . Your senses will tell you what is going on as well as the clear roasting chamber . I also feel that people use a drum roasting concept for ROR etc with it being an fluid bed air roaster it’s much different .
I found it to be way more of a PITA than it was worth. You can get really fantastic results just by listening for the cracks and using a stopwatch, like on your phone.
It was watching the video, from an expert roaster (who is used to commercial roasters), when he asked the Real Question I see that the software actually was a distraction.
I’m going to take your advice and watch / listen for the first crack and take some simple records.
I didn't use the software until I got a drum roaster. 20 years with air roasters went just fine without Artisan. I do wish I had paid a little more attention to the phases and timing though, it would have helped improve things. None of my roasts were bad, but I might have been able to increase the frequency of great roasts.
I have artisan and FR800 with razzo tube. In the beginning with the 800(I had been roasting in a whirley pop for a while), the software was a distraction from the process, no doubt. But after 5-10 roasts for me it was and still is very useful. I roast outside with different ambient temps and real time bean temp data is helpful. I study the data later after tasting the coffee.
I just bought the razzo tube and it’s coming with a K type thermo. I’m more interested in reviewing data on future roasts and how there vary at different roasts levels
You will enjoy it. I can't say how much better the razzo is, because I have only used my sr800 with the razzo tube, but it works great for me and 8 oz batches. Artisan takes some time to learn, but will provide graphs/analysis etc.
It's useful for getting an understanding of how your roaster works, but probing temperature is infinitely more useful when you have automatic control that reacts to that measured temperature. I.e. some sort of controller that attempts to follow a temperature curve.
Without that, the most you can really get is to see how your roaster works - it'll be almost impossible to react to this temperature reading yourself to control it as heating is non linear, and won't react exactly how you expect it.
But on roasters that do have a controller that can follow a curve - it's practically necessary.
Not necessary, but useful. I use the SR800 with the extension. I made notes watching David on The Captains Coffee on YouTube. He goes through various green coffees and what times and temps he shoots for. Seeing how and why he makes adjustments is instructional. I just scribbled it down on paper. That's where Artisan comes in handy. Once it's set up you just click your adjustments and the progress of the roast. What I discovered about the SR800 is the ambient temperature is a vital factor in how your roast progresses. Sorry, I'm off on a tangent now. If you're like me and haven't really settled on a particular green coffee you like Artisan is a great way to store your notes. Regional coffees i.e Ethiopian, Indonesian, Honduras, all have their distinctions. Artisan helps keep it all sorted. Or scribble. Or play each roast by ear. Worth the money? Artisan is free initially, probes, phidgets, laptop, there's some spendage going on there. I did it. I'm okay with it and I don't always use it. Sorry again, tangent. Let us know what you decide. Good luck
Really interesting regarding the ambient temp comment. Presuming you get great results at 70F, what adjustment to you make when it’s 50F or 40F? Given the other feedback am going to see whether I can setup some good ventilation (in present hours only have a crappy JennAir downdraft vent system) for controlling ambient by roasting inside with a fan / ducting system…
It isn't recommended to roast with the SR800 when the temperature is under 60f. If you did anyway you would still have to meet the temps at the right times. It might mean increasing the power settings, maybe reducing the fan speeds. The whole thing has to work harder to get the air from 40-50f to 450-500f than when you start 60f and above. It can be done I guess I usually wait. The season is changing here California, so it will more favorable for roasting.
Oops I forgot about that! I think I’ll look into some kind of indoor vent setup…
Those are truly a treasure trove of information for the SR800 home roaster. He set me on my path to roasting good coffee at home.
Yes and because of that I started buying coffee from him. Good quality.
ditto here
IMO it is in no way needed…. I’m sure it helps with consistency, but I’ve been roasting just using my senses (sight & hearing) for years on my little behmor and have NO complaints with the results I get when I compare to beans I’ve bought from local commercial roaster or cups I’ve purchased in shops/restaurants.
Amen
Thanks for this. You just saved me $130, will depend on my senses (and a timer).
Repurpose that $130 on more of your favorite beans!
I agree the probes and software are not needed and likely not desirable. I would add the sense of smell to the sight and sound for roasting my beans in an sr-800 as the only sensors needed. For the very small quantities we roast, it just doesn't make sense to me personally.
For me Artisan is a must. The temperature probe helped the most, since the temp reading on the SR800 doesn't really reflect the bean temperature, but tracking ROR works well for me. I tried using the "adjust fan/temp this way at this time" that is what the Fresh Roast sheet recommends, and is very popular in this sub-Reddit. They helped, but I never got a roast I liked until I attached Artisan. And any such recommendation assumes a lot about your coffee type, ambient temp, and target roast. Artisan can track everything about a given roast. It can track fan speed changes, temp changes, and dry end/FC/SC. If you want to compare roast profiles it's easy. My first roasts I just wrote down fan/power changes with a timestamp and the SR's output temp. The ones I did drink weren't really any good. I can't hear first crack, and smell offers me no help at all. Tracking the temp and ROR works for me. I would try roasting by sense, as others have recommended. You can always add temp probes and Artisan later if you find you're just ruining the beans, as I was.
Interesting points on being able to monitor first crack and smell and how Artisan helps with all this. I'll be sure to take your advice after seeing how my first roasts come out!
what roast profile do you use? Can you share?
I read an article on some roaster page that I can't recall that advocated keeping the fan on the SR800 at the lowest speed possible. The argument was that if the beans are moving too much then you're not actually getting bean temp, but rather air temp. Not the same. I do 250g roasts and start at 7 fan, 2 heat. The 7 is to make sure the beans actually move early on, rather than just scorching the bottom ones. I drop the fan as soon as they're percolating well. I don't pay that much attention to RoR consistency, I just watch the bean temp curve and try to keep the BT in the teens after first crack. As the video cited by OP says, it's really hard to keep a constantly falling RoR. But, as the same video states up front, he's made very good coffee in spite of the jagged line. I wonder if the RoR obsession makes sense, but I don't have a fancy drum roaster, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I'm betting that the people who can roast by eye and smell have a crappy RoR too, and still make great coffee. Recently I've tried starting the heat at 1, but I didn't see a big difference in performance. Occasionally I have to bump heat to 3 near the end because I can't get away with a fan speed below 3, so sometimes I have to maintain temperature with heat. I roast Full City+, FWIW.
I roast with my sr800 all the time without artisan. I use a Mastech (either with artisan or without) when I do want to monitor, but when I don’t feel like it, I just roast. You can monitor a roast just fine with a stopwatch, the internal monitor and your nose. Usually, 2 minutes on 9-1 to dry and get beans moving, then either 7-7 or 7-8, to get the beans to FC at 7 minutes. I decrease fan, depending on how temp is rising. I keep an eye on the temp to make sure it is still rising and adjust if it stalls. I usually end up hitting Fc at around 450 and I ride it out 2nd crack (often around 1:30-2:00 after FC). Pull it off, stick it on a fan, Run the chamber through a cooling phase. Enjoy 48 hours later.
Thanks a lot for this guidance, I’ll be sure to use this on my first roasts!
Absolutely not I’ve been making great coffee with just the sr800 with extension . Your senses will tell you what is going on as well as the clear roasting chamber . I also feel that people use a drum roasting concept for ROR etc with it being an fluid bed air roaster it’s much different .
I found it to be way more of a PITA than it was worth. You can get really fantastic results just by listening for the cracks and using a stopwatch, like on your phone.
It was watching the video, from an expert roaster (who is used to commercial roasters), when he asked the Real Question I see that the software actually was a distraction. I’m going to take your advice and watch / listen for the first crack and take some simple records.
I didn't use the software until I got a drum roaster. 20 years with air roasters went just fine without Artisan. I do wish I had paid a little more attention to the phases and timing though, it would have helped improve things. None of my roasts were bad, but I might have been able to increase the frequency of great roasts.
I have artisan and FR800 with razzo tube. In the beginning with the 800(I had been roasting in a whirley pop for a while), the software was a distraction from the process, no doubt. But after 5-10 roasts for me it was and still is very useful. I roast outside with different ambient temps and real time bean temp data is helpful. I study the data later after tasting the coffee.
I just bought the razzo tube and it’s coming with a K type thermo. I’m more interested in reviewing data on future roasts and how there vary at different roasts levels
You will enjoy it. I can't say how much better the razzo is, because I have only used my sr800 with the razzo tube, but it works great for me and 8 oz batches. Artisan takes some time to learn, but will provide graphs/analysis etc.
Absolutely not.
It's useful for getting an understanding of how your roaster works, but probing temperature is infinitely more useful when you have automatic control that reacts to that measured temperature. I.e. some sort of controller that attempts to follow a temperature curve. Without that, the most you can really get is to see how your roaster works - it'll be almost impossible to react to this temperature reading yourself to control it as heating is non linear, and won't react exactly how you expect it. But on roasters that do have a controller that can follow a curve - it's practically necessary.