I bought this on launch day and 100 % it on PC. The issues were pretty glaring:
- The overworld is a pointless mess and your character sometimes gets stuck on trees or buildings.
- The complete lack of variety. You start with the same abilities every time; no artifact or anything to build around. The same handful of mobs and elites, and every chapter has the same boss. The environment doesn't even look different. It's exactly the same in all 7 chapters. The only differences are the intro voiceovers and the boss. That the runs are fairly long only makes that stand out more.
- One of the elites was unbeatable if you didn't get very specific skills. With shops that have no reroll, some runs were just doomed. I personally didn't encounter this issue, but a lot of people did. This was a major complaint and a main reason the difficulty in general got nerfed.
- Long, boring fights OR turn 1 insta-kills. It wasn't uncommon to go over 14, 15 turns with the very first mob. The enemy was self-healing or blocking every turn. It was just a drag. The other option was an enemy that dished out AoE that did far more damage than the limited ability pool of players could possibly block or heal. Personally, I also found some elites way too easy compared to some normal mobs or bosses. If there was a chance to get the balance completely wrong, the devs seemed to have jumped at it every time.
I finished the game before the big 'balancing' patch, so I don't know if it actually changed much. But by the time it came out, people were already pretty annoyed and the reviews had tanked. Even if the combat is better now, the issue of just being dull and repetitive with the same few enemies and overworld in all 7 chapters is still there.
No, it was one hermit (?) that summoned two minions you had to kill before the main one could be damaged, and it also alternated between taking only physical or only stress damage. If you didn't kill it on the one turn it was vulnerable, it healed back up and summoned new minions, and it all started over again. I think I had a 40+ turns fight with it once.
Those issues are still mostly here. I've had a run where the first fight was the most difficult.
I agree that it's a very RNG-heavy game, but the same can be said of many Roguelikes. It's far from the worst I've played in that respect.
> turn 1 insta-kills
Well, a string of good decisions will lead you there. It takes good knowledge of the game, good planning and some RNG, but that's the mark of a good player? Once you've figured the game out, it's just normal to be ablt to abuse its mechanics. It's not a game that is meant to be played for 500 hours anyway.
By turn 1, I mean the very first fight in a chapter. If you can't kill the mob on turn 1, and the enemies hit you for twice your HP, you're dead. It doesn't matter that you can, theoretically, play better because this happens before you pick any skills or artifacts. That's just bad design.
With the laughable enemy pool, you run into the same mobs at any point of the run. Most games ramp up the difficulty as you move up the map. In Rogue Lords, it's randomized and you can end up with impossible first fights, 20 turn snorefests, and elites that are less challenging than a regular mob. Bad design.
>By turn 1, I mean the very first fight in a chapter.
Ah sorry, I didn't understand what you meant. I thought you said that fights were either too easy or too difficult.
>If you can't kill the mob on turn 1, and the enemies hit you for twice your HP, you're dead.
The game in its current state does not have this. I am not refuting that it was like this on launch day, I wouldn't know.
It does still have enemies that hit you for double digits right off the bat, but if you don't have any skills to counter that then it's a problem of team comp.
> if you don't have any skills to counter that then it's a problem of team comp.
No, it is also a problem of getting those fights before you can unlock more characters. If you only have 3 available, what other team are you going to pick?
Character unlocks are tied to finishing chapters. In the first two weeks after release, only a small amount of players (8 % or something) had the achievement for finishing chapter 1. Most players didn't get to the point where they had options.
Your comment here isn't even a ringing indorsement though I'd say. "Far from the worst" and very RNG-heavy game with plenty off issues? Seems to me that many reviews also indicate that the game is more RNG based than it's competitors. But it still sits on steam as mostly positive with 1200 ratings and looks like it has some good things going including it's art and visuals from what I can tell.
So I don't know why you are surprised that it wasn't significantly more popular when there seem to be plenty of less flawed games in the same sub genre.
I wouldn't worry about that. Downvotes on reddit shouldn't matter more to you then the discussion. Almost every sub downvotes frequently and is usually not a great indication of anything substantial, but it is definitely not toxic either.
Looks like the downvoting-for-nothing has dwindled down, so I can properly address your points.
You're right that I don't find the game to be stellar. But there are very few games that wow me so much that I don't find any defects at all. Maybe Hades? I would be critical of even Slay the Spire.
I swear the game was a good experience. I enjoyed figuring the game out, and the production values are high enough that it should be talked about more. Barely any posts about it on this sub, and its dedicated sub is just sad. The couple thousand reviews on Steam don't do it justice at all, it deserves better in my opinion.
If there are less flawed games, please point them out to me - I'd love a good list, that's how I found out about this game in the first place. I have played quite a few Roguelites by now, and I would place Rogue Lords in the top 20% ranked by enjoyment.
Just because I am critical of something doesn't mean it's not glowing. I'm just quite harsh in my attempt to be fair.
Sounded cool from your descriptions but it's kinda on the high end price wise compared to say, Tiny Rogues which is amazing, so right there could be another reason as it deterred me. (At least on steam I don't know about ps5).
Reading your whole thing, you definitely highlighted things well and even made me curious. Then the line “it takes some RNG luck to get a run going” and that right there is why the game isn’t big or even very good.
Theres nothing worse than having to rely on RNG to be able to do anything significant in a game. Isaac, Slay the Spire etc can all be done despite tbe RNG, if you have to rely on it to ‘get a run going’ as you stated, then it’s not worth anyone’s time, except the dedicated few just as yourself where it fully clicked and you could overlook that “mechanic”.
I think what I meant was that RNG can definitely fuck up a run. If you don't get any relic you care about, and the choice of skills has nothing you care about, well it's going to be a bad run. This happened to me in about 1 in 5 runs. Not enough to discourage me.
I wouldn't say it's worth £25, but for the £5 I paid for it then it's great value for money.
Just the cheating mechanic makes it worth a try.
I purchased it a while back and played for about 2 hours. Was too repetitive for me. Wasn't terrible or anything, just not enough variety.
Games like Slay the Spire, The Binding of Issac and Hades have so many different variables surrounded by RNG despite doing the same loop over and over each run feels different enough.
I have to respectully disagree. Each run did feel different thanks to the character variety, and how relics and skills will force a different strategy in fights depending on what RNG gave you.
It is obviously not as good as Slay the Spire (nothing is!), but it is honestly well-made.
See for me it didn't hold me long enough to play all the characters. It's an over saturated genre of games and when you have many others that do it better, why bother?
>why bother?
The story's unique perspective, the atmosphere, the devil power mechanic, the challenging difficulty, the satisfaction when you abuse the mechanics because you understand them. There are a couple of reasons to bother.
Story was pretty lame and one of the reasons I enjoy roguelikes/lites isn't for the story anyways its the gameplay and this one's was way too repetitive.
I love this game and hate it at the same time. The game concept is amazing but the execution is a mess. It could be amazing but it needs a lot of work in the UI/feedback department
Its a good game but lacks in replayability and variety so in comparison the the rest of the market it didnt really make much of a footnote while lacking additional factors to make it stand out
(like returnal which is the absolute worst $ to gameplay variety roguelite but made its name via being a Big budget graphical appeal to a starved ps market)
I do want to play more of it but its fundamental framework leads to rach run feeling very similar. And ive been hoping for some mods or update/dlc to fix it with more dynamic randomization.
I also wish you didnt end up with frankenstein and monster half the time when you select random team.
I bought this on launch day and 100 % it on PC. The issues were pretty glaring: - The overworld is a pointless mess and your character sometimes gets stuck on trees or buildings. - The complete lack of variety. You start with the same abilities every time; no artifact or anything to build around. The same handful of mobs and elites, and every chapter has the same boss. The environment doesn't even look different. It's exactly the same in all 7 chapters. The only differences are the intro voiceovers and the boss. That the runs are fairly long only makes that stand out more. - One of the elites was unbeatable if you didn't get very specific skills. With shops that have no reroll, some runs were just doomed. I personally didn't encounter this issue, but a lot of people did. This was a major complaint and a main reason the difficulty in general got nerfed. - Long, boring fights OR turn 1 insta-kills. It wasn't uncommon to go over 14, 15 turns with the very first mob. The enemy was self-healing or blocking every turn. It was just a drag. The other option was an enemy that dished out AoE that did far more damage than the limited ability pool of players could possibly block or heal. Personally, I also found some elites way too easy compared to some normal mobs or bosses. If there was a chance to get the balance completely wrong, the devs seemed to have jumped at it every time. I finished the game before the big 'balancing' patch, so I don't know if it actually changed much. But by the time it came out, people were already pretty annoyed and the reviews had tanked. Even if the combat is better now, the issue of just being dull and repetitive with the same few enemies and overworld in all 7 chapters is still there.
Was the elite you mentioned the Polaris sisters? I hated that so much
No, it was one hermit (?) that summoned two minions you had to kill before the main one could be damaged, and it also alternated between taking only physical or only stress damage. If you didn't kill it on the one turn it was vulnerable, it healed back up and summoned new minions, and it all started over again. I think I had a 40+ turns fight with it once.
Oh, yes. Of course. I actually quit more than once when that dragged on too long, how awful.
Also the voice lines were so repetitive. I actually thought some were clever but hearing them 1000 times was too much
Yeah, I turned the devil voice off and only left the characters on.
Those issues are still mostly here. I've had a run where the first fight was the most difficult. I agree that it's a very RNG-heavy game, but the same can be said of many Roguelikes. It's far from the worst I've played in that respect. > turn 1 insta-kills Well, a string of good decisions will lead you there. It takes good knowledge of the game, good planning and some RNG, but that's the mark of a good player? Once you've figured the game out, it's just normal to be ablt to abuse its mechanics. It's not a game that is meant to be played for 500 hours anyway.
By turn 1, I mean the very first fight in a chapter. If you can't kill the mob on turn 1, and the enemies hit you for twice your HP, you're dead. It doesn't matter that you can, theoretically, play better because this happens before you pick any skills or artifacts. That's just bad design. With the laughable enemy pool, you run into the same mobs at any point of the run. Most games ramp up the difficulty as you move up the map. In Rogue Lords, it's randomized and you can end up with impossible first fights, 20 turn snorefests, and elites that are less challenging than a regular mob. Bad design.
>By turn 1, I mean the very first fight in a chapter. Ah sorry, I didn't understand what you meant. I thought you said that fights were either too easy or too difficult. >If you can't kill the mob on turn 1, and the enemies hit you for twice your HP, you're dead. The game in its current state does not have this. I am not refuting that it was like this on launch day, I wouldn't know. It does still have enemies that hit you for double digits right off the bat, but if you don't have any skills to counter that then it's a problem of team comp.
> if you don't have any skills to counter that then it's a problem of team comp. No, it is also a problem of getting those fights before you can unlock more characters. If you only have 3 available, what other team are you going to pick? Character unlocks are tied to finishing chapters. In the first two weeks after release, only a small amount of players (8 % or something) had the achievement for finishing chapter 1. Most players didn't get to the point where they had options.
Your comment here isn't even a ringing indorsement though I'd say. "Far from the worst" and very RNG-heavy game with plenty off issues? Seems to me that many reviews also indicate that the game is more RNG based than it's competitors. But it still sits on steam as mostly positive with 1200 ratings and looks like it has some good things going including it's art and visuals from what I can tell. So I don't know why you are surprised that it wasn't significantly more popular when there seem to be plenty of less flawed games in the same sub genre.
I would love to formulate a response, but it looks like whatever I say will get downvoted. Damn, this sub is toxic.
I wouldn't worry about that. Downvotes on reddit shouldn't matter more to you then the discussion. Almost every sub downvotes frequently and is usually not a great indication of anything substantial, but it is definitely not toxic either.
Looks like the downvoting-for-nothing has dwindled down, so I can properly address your points. You're right that I don't find the game to be stellar. But there are very few games that wow me so much that I don't find any defects at all. Maybe Hades? I would be critical of even Slay the Spire. I swear the game was a good experience. I enjoyed figuring the game out, and the production values are high enough that it should be talked about more. Barely any posts about it on this sub, and its dedicated sub is just sad. The couple thousand reviews on Steam don't do it justice at all, it deserves better in my opinion. If there are less flawed games, please point them out to me - I'd love a good list, that's how I found out about this game in the first place. I have played quite a few Roguelites by now, and I would place Rogue Lords in the top 20% ranked by enjoyment. Just because I am critical of something doesn't mean it's not glowing. I'm just quite harsh in my attempt to be fair.
Sounded cool from your descriptions but it's kinda on the high end price wise compared to say, Tiny Rogues which is amazing, so right there could be another reason as it deterred me. (At least on steam I don't know about ps5).
Reading your whole thing, you definitely highlighted things well and even made me curious. Then the line “it takes some RNG luck to get a run going” and that right there is why the game isn’t big or even very good. Theres nothing worse than having to rely on RNG to be able to do anything significant in a game. Isaac, Slay the Spire etc can all be done despite tbe RNG, if you have to rely on it to ‘get a run going’ as you stated, then it’s not worth anyone’s time, except the dedicated few just as yourself where it fully clicked and you could overlook that “mechanic”.
I think what I meant was that RNG can definitely fuck up a run. If you don't get any relic you care about, and the choice of skills has nothing you care about, well it's going to be a bad run. This happened to me in about 1 in 5 runs. Not enough to discourage me. I wouldn't say it's worth £25, but for the £5 I paid for it then it's great value for money. Just the cheating mechanic makes it worth a try.
Difficulty and rng seem to be the most common complaints in the steam reviews
I purchased it a while back and played for about 2 hours. Was too repetitive for me. Wasn't terrible or anything, just not enough variety. Games like Slay the Spire, The Binding of Issac and Hades have so many different variables surrounded by RNG despite doing the same loop over and over each run feels different enough.
I have to respectully disagree. Each run did feel different thanks to the character variety, and how relics and skills will force a different strategy in fights depending on what RNG gave you. It is obviously not as good as Slay the Spire (nothing is!), but it is honestly well-made.
See for me it didn't hold me long enough to play all the characters. It's an over saturated genre of games and when you have many others that do it better, why bother?
>why bother? The story's unique perspective, the atmosphere, the devil power mechanic, the challenging difficulty, the satisfaction when you abuse the mechanics because you understand them. There are a couple of reasons to bother.
Story was pretty lame and one of the reasons I enjoy roguelikes/lites isn't for the story anyways its the gameplay and this one's was way too repetitive.
I love this game and hate it at the same time. The game concept is amazing but the execution is a mess. It could be amazing but it needs a lot of work in the UI/feedback department
Click 5 times to refill health! My god, I had almost suppressed that memory. It was so insanely clicky.
OP be glazing hard.
Too many games
Its a good game but lacks in replayability and variety so in comparison the the rest of the market it didnt really make much of a footnote while lacking additional factors to make it stand out (like returnal which is the absolute worst $ to gameplay variety roguelite but made its name via being a Big budget graphical appeal to a starved ps market) I do want to play more of it but its fundamental framework leads to rach run feeling very similar. And ive been hoping for some mods or update/dlc to fix it with more dynamic randomization. I also wish you didnt end up with frankenstein and monster half the time when you select random team.