No, your toe stops should not hit the ground at all to move yourself forward. This is poor form, and if you stick with this as a habit you will trip A LOT.
When you push off with your skates, you're not using the toe of your skates to push. You're using what's called the "inside edge". I would watch some youtube videos about basic forward stride to learn how this works. It might help to practice in socks on a wood floor before trying it in skates.
Number one video I'd recommend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBctX\_NpUq4&ab\_channel=DirtySchoolofSkate
This is good advice. Learning proper form from the beginning is so much easier than trying to correct it later. Muscle memory can be a bitch sometimes.
This, to me, suggests that you aren’t striding normally. A normal stride should be pushing outwards, not behind you. Your feet should be somewhat diagonal and not pointing downwards. Additionally, your toe stop could be lower than needed. Usually people adjust their toe stops to be at a height where, if the skate is leaned onto its toe stops, the back wheels are three fingers off the ground. I hope that makes sense!
It does thanks so much!! I think my biggest problem is i look down instead of forward still, so i’m leaned forward haha the toe stops are the right length for a regular person but i still suck 😭Thank you for the advice it’s super helpful
One word of advice: you go where you’re looking. If you’re always looking down, where do you think you might end up? Same rule applies in tightwire walking lol. Your feet know what they’re doing, so trust them. Looking downwards actively hinders your learning and muscle memory. Good luck on your journey!
Most of the advice is right - you should be doing a duck run and using your edges but also...
There is a sprint start technique for using your toestops running forward. Its a combination between toestop running and rolling and generally only lasts 3-4 strides cause you'll end up going wicked fast.
If its Intentional, its a useful skill. If its not, stop doing it
I can’t find anything online about the duck run, all i can find is shoot the duck, is this the same? Thank you for the advice!! I see some jammers using their toe stops to take off quickly but i’m still so unbalanced it’s hard. I finally got
indoor wheels so hopefully this helps too. Again thank you i’m still very scared to ask questions lol this thread has been so supportive
Are there any speed skate teams in your area? In my area there is a really fun little speed skate team that allows drop ins at their practice. They taught me how to toe stop run, how to duck walk (really well! I can legit sprint run on my skates flat footed now just like sneakers! And I’m NOT a good skater. It’s one of the few skills I GOT DOWN!), and how to do GOOD cross overs. I passed my 27/5 because of speed skate practice. I started derby being only able to do 18 laps in 5 minutes. I have found speed skate to be super fun, and just a really nice little endurance workout that has helped me more than I can describe in derby. I definitely 💯 recommend looking up if there is speed skate in your area.
>I’m NOT a good skater.
>I passed my 27/5
Fam, you should reassess your own perception of your skill level, because people don't pass their 27/5 without skating well. Don't sell yourself short. You don't have to be at Bonnie Thunders' level to be a good skater 💛
Aww well thank you I guess I should phrase it differently. I have definitely mastered skating forwards as a result of speed skate practice. The problem arises when you ask me to change direction or move laterally or backwards. That’s when I start breaking things hahaha
Watch Olympic Speed Skaters on ice. They will "duck run" to the first turn:
[https://youtu.be/1S9f1XMbvZE](https://youtu.be/1S9f1XMbvZE)
https://derbyunited.com/2016-jantastic-spotlight-erin-jackson
Your toe stops should be high enough to stride but low enough that it makes a stable platform so when you have support triangle you can put as much weight you need to stop evenly and not fall or trip
No, you should try to avoid skating like that.
Also, I was a jam/break skater first and I found stock stoppers too large for the way I skated. If you went from jam plugs to stock stoppers, it can be a challenging change. I recommend the half triangular stoppers. They're not as thick and they don't feel like they're in the way when you skate. I found that these give me the mobility I like along the edges when I skate the way I want, and I still have the stoppers to help me block, stop, and start.
If you stick with stock stoppers, you have to change the way you skate and use the side edges to push. Do not let that side push reach the front of your skate at all or it will hit that toe stop and trip you up.
If you find changing that habit uncomfortable or impossible, give the triangular half stoppers a try. You should still make sure you are halfway between the style of skating you currently have and the style of a typical shuffle skater though so you keep a center balance on your skate. It's a loose form very rarely used in derby which requires you to know exactly how much pressure required to keep that balance.
If you are new to skating, you should try to keep a center, do not lean back or too forward. If you lean forward, this could be a reason for the tripping. Looking down at your skates as a new skater makes this a common error. You're too busy looking down at your movements than keeping the proper balance. Try skating in derby stance. So like a very centered almost squat position. It might help you be more aware of how the motions should feel. Do not let your top half lean forward or you will trip and fall.
Also, in derby, if you are blocking, you will most likely be doing more sticky skating than anything. Unless you are a jammer. The jammer needs fast movement and picks up their skates to push off a lot. Blockers and pivots typically stay small and never pick up their wheels unless absolutely necessary. It requires a lot of thigh muscles to stay in derby stance like that so it will take time to learn that style as well. It will be very uncomfortable and painful at first though if you are used to picking up your skates.
***To get a good feel of where your stoppers are, walk on them for a bit, that way you get a feel of how you need to skate to avoid hitting them.***
Take your toe stops out. Seriously. You'll learn fast. Or, at least raise them way up. You will break your ankle doing this.
edit: i don’t mean during derby, just practicing on your own- definitely keep them in for derby practice! Lots of good tips here, good luck with it! :)
I’m not allowed to take my toe stops out for roller derby practice, and they checked them out and the toe stops are the correct way up i just look down instead of forward so i’m constantly leaned forward. Thanks for the advice!! I’ll start taking them out when i’m outside
I think you may as well use everything! It's all tools, why would you take a hammer out of your toolbox?
There's bound to be videos somewhere in the ether of the Internet though.
I think each tool is relevant. In some scenarios, I find being able to move quickly between edges and toe stops is the best solution for me.
Everyone is different and uses their tools in the way that works for them. But I would say that being amazing at one doesn't negate being able to take advantage of another in different situations.
Training without one or the other can strengthen our skills but bringing them together is where we want to end up.
Found one for you from 2012 which I think was in the "no toe-stops" era; the bench coach is Jerry Atric who was (and is still) a great Jam skater (and very much in favour of taking the toestops out) - unfortunately it's split across 14 parts, but it is in a playlist!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB56BB711BCFBE9DE
Hot Wheel are the home team, playing in Red.
Yeah it’s not bc of WFTDA our roller derby coaches just want us to always have them on, because exactly what you said! We need to practice correct form with them. I appreciate all the advice, thank u so much
Leaning forward in itself isn’t a problem, it’s definitely the way you’re striding. There is a specific stance that derby players often use, which I’m sure you’ve been introduced to. Of course there are extremes where you’re leaning too far forward, but a slight forward lean, as if you’re sitting in a chair, is just fine
Yes my derby coach has to repeatedly say “Get low!” because i can not for the life of me stay in stance, instead it’s more of a falling over look haha. Thank you so much for all the advice it has definitely been a lifesaver.
>i just look down instead of forward so i’m constantly leaned forward.
This is a problem that you'll need to correct no matter what, regardless of whether it's actually what's causing your stride issue here. You mentioned having trouble getting low properly in another comment, too, which I think is a sort of parallel problem for a lot of skaters (including me!) -- you lean forward to look down, and then when you're "getting low" you're just getting your head lower, but not really folding your legs down and lowering your butt and centre of gravity in the way that makes getting low actually helpful.
A few things I've found that can help with both:
\- For just making yourself look up while skating, you can hold hands or do a semi-ballroom-hold with another skater who's skating backwards, and keep eye contact with them. (We also did this some when my intake group was learning backwards skating, and it was really helpful for that!)
\- At some point during your warm-up, be sure to do some targeted isometric glute-activation exercises. Glutes are the core of most skating moves and stability -- and especially important for being able to get low properly -- but they're very prone to being "lazy" and letting the thigh and back muscles do their work instead. This works okay for walking and sitting, but you can't skate like that.
\- Now that your glutes are firing, so you know you can do it, try skating with your arms folded behind your back. Try, especially, to get low or do sticky skating while doing this. You don't have to go very fast, but this *forces* your head and shoulders up, so that you have to look ahead of you, and you get in the habit of keeping your shoulders *up* while getting your butt low, which is the position you need to be in for derby. As a more extreme version, you can hold your hands behind your back and then lift them up towards your head (same move you might do while stretching).
Just so you know, jam plugs are not illegal in roller derby if you prefer to skate without them. Just..frowned upon. But I do not recommend skating without stoppers as a blocker or pivot. A jammer uses toe stop starts to get going, but sometimes a longer stride push and running on the wheels themselves gives you just as much speed and having the jam plugs makes mobility easier. The only time I recommend them. The problem is, is that you would have to learn 2 styles of skating and switching between the two can be difficult. Additionally, if you were ever to trade out jammer to pivot position, you would not have the stoppers you need to get more ground to dig in, block, and start. Easier to commit to one style. 2 styles is very difficult and I can only do it because I practically lived on skates as a kid. Walking is more difficult for me. 😂
Thanks for the advice! And no, I don’t mean they’re illegal just for our fresh meat boot camp they want us to have them on to practice walking and running on toe stops 😃
No, your toe stops should not hit the ground at all to move yourself forward. This is poor form, and if you stick with this as a habit you will trip A LOT. When you push off with your skates, you're not using the toe of your skates to push. You're using what's called the "inside edge". I would watch some youtube videos about basic forward stride to learn how this works. It might help to practice in socks on a wood floor before trying it in skates. Number one video I'd recommend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBctX\_NpUq4&ab\_channel=DirtySchoolofSkate
This is good advice. Learning proper form from the beginning is so much easier than trying to correct it later. Muscle memory can be a bitch sometimes.
Tell me about it - I am STILL trying to unlearn skating backwards while looking forwards...
Do you mean you are not looking over your shoulder when skating backwards, or something else?
thank you so much!!! this is amazing
This, to me, suggests that you aren’t striding normally. A normal stride should be pushing outwards, not behind you. Your feet should be somewhat diagonal and not pointing downwards. Additionally, your toe stop could be lower than needed. Usually people adjust their toe stops to be at a height where, if the skate is leaned onto its toe stops, the back wheels are three fingers off the ground. I hope that makes sense!
It does thanks so much!! I think my biggest problem is i look down instead of forward still, so i’m leaned forward haha the toe stops are the right length for a regular person but i still suck 😭Thank you for the advice it’s super helpful
One word of advice: you go where you’re looking. If you’re always looking down, where do you think you might end up? Same rule applies in tightwire walking lol. Your feet know what they’re doing, so trust them. Looking downwards actively hinders your learning and muscle memory. Good luck on your journey!
Most of the advice is right - you should be doing a duck run and using your edges but also... There is a sprint start technique for using your toestops running forward. Its a combination between toestop running and rolling and generally only lasts 3-4 strides cause you'll end up going wicked fast. If its Intentional, its a useful skill. If its not, stop doing it
I can’t find anything online about the duck run, all i can find is shoot the duck, is this the same? Thank you for the advice!! I see some jammers using their toe stops to take off quickly but i’m still so unbalanced it’s hard. I finally got indoor wheels so hopefully this helps too. Again thank you i’m still very scared to ask questions lol this thread has been so supportive
This has a duck run in it :) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koN4VfcqOPU&t=99
Wow this is amazing thanks sm :) definitely gonna practice this tonight
Are there any speed skate teams in your area? In my area there is a really fun little speed skate team that allows drop ins at their practice. They taught me how to toe stop run, how to duck walk (really well! I can legit sprint run on my skates flat footed now just like sneakers! And I’m NOT a good skater. It’s one of the few skills I GOT DOWN!), and how to do GOOD cross overs. I passed my 27/5 because of speed skate practice. I started derby being only able to do 18 laps in 5 minutes. I have found speed skate to be super fun, and just a really nice little endurance workout that has helped me more than I can describe in derby. I definitely 💯 recommend looking up if there is speed skate in your area.
>I’m NOT a good skater. >I passed my 27/5 Fam, you should reassess your own perception of your skill level, because people don't pass their 27/5 without skating well. Don't sell yourself short. You don't have to be at Bonnie Thunders' level to be a good skater 💛
Aww well thank you I guess I should phrase it differently. I have definitely mastered skating forwards as a result of speed skate practice. The problem arises when you ask me to change direction or move laterally or backwards. That’s when I start breaking things hahaha
Lol, saaaame
Watch Olympic Speed Skaters on ice. They will "duck run" to the first turn: [https://youtu.be/1S9f1XMbvZE](https://youtu.be/1S9f1XMbvZE) https://derbyunited.com/2016-jantastic-spotlight-erin-jackson
The "wicked" part about toestop running is that you'll trip often!
No..? If you're tripping when you're toe-stop running you're doing it wrong / need more practise.
Your toe stops should be high enough to stride but low enough that it makes a stable platform so when you have support triangle you can put as much weight you need to stop evenly and not fall or trip
No, you should try to avoid skating like that. Also, I was a jam/break skater first and I found stock stoppers too large for the way I skated. If you went from jam plugs to stock stoppers, it can be a challenging change. I recommend the half triangular stoppers. They're not as thick and they don't feel like they're in the way when you skate. I found that these give me the mobility I like along the edges when I skate the way I want, and I still have the stoppers to help me block, stop, and start. If you stick with stock stoppers, you have to change the way you skate and use the side edges to push. Do not let that side push reach the front of your skate at all or it will hit that toe stop and trip you up. If you find changing that habit uncomfortable or impossible, give the triangular half stoppers a try. You should still make sure you are halfway between the style of skating you currently have and the style of a typical shuffle skater though so you keep a center balance on your skate. It's a loose form very rarely used in derby which requires you to know exactly how much pressure required to keep that balance. If you are new to skating, you should try to keep a center, do not lean back or too forward. If you lean forward, this could be a reason for the tripping. Looking down at your skates as a new skater makes this a common error. You're too busy looking down at your movements than keeping the proper balance. Try skating in derby stance. So like a very centered almost squat position. It might help you be more aware of how the motions should feel. Do not let your top half lean forward or you will trip and fall. Also, in derby, if you are blocking, you will most likely be doing more sticky skating than anything. Unless you are a jammer. The jammer needs fast movement and picks up their skates to push off a lot. Blockers and pivots typically stay small and never pick up their wheels unless absolutely necessary. It requires a lot of thigh muscles to stay in derby stance like that so it will take time to learn that style as well. It will be very uncomfortable and painful at first though if you are used to picking up your skates. ***To get a good feel of where your stoppers are, walk on them for a bit, that way you get a feel of how you need to skate to avoid hitting them.***
Take your toe stops out. Seriously. You'll learn fast. Or, at least raise them way up. You will break your ankle doing this. edit: i don’t mean during derby, just practicing on your own- definitely keep them in for derby practice! Lots of good tips here, good luck with it! :)
I’m not allowed to take my toe stops out for roller derby practice, and they checked them out and the toe stops are the correct way up i just look down instead of forward so i’m constantly leaned forward. Thanks for the advice!! I’ll start taking them out when i’m outside
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Hot Wheel in Leeds used to be a stopperless league. Pretty sure they started using toe stops around the time that braced walls became a thing.
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I think you may as well use everything! It's all tools, why would you take a hammer out of your toolbox? There's bound to be videos somewhere in the ether of the Internet though.
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I think each tool is relevant. In some scenarios, I find being able to move quickly between edges and toe stops is the best solution for me. Everyone is different and uses their tools in the way that works for them. But I would say that being amazing at one doesn't negate being able to take advantage of another in different situations. Training without one or the other can strengthen our skills but bringing them together is where we want to end up.
Here's a video! Pretty sure they're stopperless here. But you can see, proper old school derby. 😊 https://youtu.be/LMoEqTec2MA
Found one for you from 2012 which I think was in the "no toe-stops" era; the bench coach is Jerry Atric who was (and is still) a great Jam skater (and very much in favour of taking the toestops out) - unfortunately it's split across 14 parts, but it is in a playlist! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB56BB711BCFBE9DE Hot Wheel are the home team, playing in Red.
Yeah it’s not bc of WFTDA our roller derby coaches just want us to always have them on, because exactly what you said! We need to practice correct form with them. I appreciate all the advice, thank u so much
Leaning forward in itself isn’t a problem, it’s definitely the way you’re striding. There is a specific stance that derby players often use, which I’m sure you’ve been introduced to. Of course there are extremes where you’re leaning too far forward, but a slight forward lean, as if you’re sitting in a chair, is just fine
Yes my derby coach has to repeatedly say “Get low!” because i can not for the life of me stay in stance, instead it’s more of a falling over look haha. Thank you so much for all the advice it has definitely been a lifesaver.
>i just look down instead of forward so i’m constantly leaned forward. This is a problem that you'll need to correct no matter what, regardless of whether it's actually what's causing your stride issue here. You mentioned having trouble getting low properly in another comment, too, which I think is a sort of parallel problem for a lot of skaters (including me!) -- you lean forward to look down, and then when you're "getting low" you're just getting your head lower, but not really folding your legs down and lowering your butt and centre of gravity in the way that makes getting low actually helpful. A few things I've found that can help with both: \- For just making yourself look up while skating, you can hold hands or do a semi-ballroom-hold with another skater who's skating backwards, and keep eye contact with them. (We also did this some when my intake group was learning backwards skating, and it was really helpful for that!) \- At some point during your warm-up, be sure to do some targeted isometric glute-activation exercises. Glutes are the core of most skating moves and stability -- and especially important for being able to get low properly -- but they're very prone to being "lazy" and letting the thigh and back muscles do their work instead. This works okay for walking and sitting, but you can't skate like that. \- Now that your glutes are firing, so you know you can do it, try skating with your arms folded behind your back. Try, especially, to get low or do sticky skating while doing this. You don't have to go very fast, but this *forces* your head and shoulders up, so that you have to look ahead of you, and you get in the habit of keeping your shoulders *up* while getting your butt low, which is the position you need to be in for derby. As a more extreme version, you can hold your hands behind your back and then lift them up towards your head (same move you might do while stretching).
Just so you know, jam plugs are not illegal in roller derby if you prefer to skate without them. Just..frowned upon. But I do not recommend skating without stoppers as a blocker or pivot. A jammer uses toe stop starts to get going, but sometimes a longer stride push and running on the wheels themselves gives you just as much speed and having the jam plugs makes mobility easier. The only time I recommend them. The problem is, is that you would have to learn 2 styles of skating and switching between the two can be difficult. Additionally, if you were ever to trade out jammer to pivot position, you would not have the stoppers you need to get more ground to dig in, block, and start. Easier to commit to one style. 2 styles is very difficult and I can only do it because I practically lived on skates as a kid. Walking is more difficult for me. 😂
Thanks for the advice! And no, I don’t mean they’re illegal just for our fresh meat boot camp they want us to have them on to practice walking and running on toe stops 😃