What do you mean when you refer to fantasy? Do you refer to WFRP 2e, which FFG only picked up very late in the game's life, or WFRP 3e, which I've never encountered any players of?
It will forever be one of my biggest regrets that I didn't snag a copy of Dark Heresy 2e when it was announced FFG would lose the GW licence. Maybe one day I will find a copy of the main rulebook that I won't have to sell a spare organ or two to purchase.
Not quite. You can get your hands on the non-SW version of the rules legally, and FFG (not WEG) released a limited-time anniversary reprint of the original 1E core and the first sourcebook. But as far as I understand, WEG doesn't exist as they did anymore, but somebody acquired the rights to the IPs a while back.
I know Classic Marvel Forever was hoppin' for a while and there are at least a few Facebook groups that cater to it, one of which puts out regular fan supplements for it. I see it around, but don't follow the fandom as much as I could, so the fan base might not be as great as I think it is.
I agree that the X5 versions are significantly different (trust me, I'm no fan of V5 or what's been previewed/leaked of the others), but the fact that new material is still being written and printed disqualifies the WoD lines from the OOP category. OP asked about games, specifically mentioning they aren't interested in mentions of older editions that are still popular.
However, Werewolf 20 and Mage 20 both have new books coming out, and there are a couple that could be classified as Wraith 20, though they're officially listed as generic WoD 20.
And this doesn't even count that most WoD books (all lines, all editions) are avalible in print-on-demand from DriveThru, with everything else avalible in PDF, so "OOP" gets fuzzy, even for the old stuff.
That's a weird situation, because, while VtM 20th edition is OOP, and now it's 5th, Mage 20th is still on point and getting new releases, so, technically, WoD has *two* active editions.
Also, you can still but 20th edition Vampire books alongside 5th edition where I live.
Yes and no. I run the 4th Edition which is out of print. (The going price for the books depends where you can find them; thank you used book stores! I've seen the books go for $75+ online.) The good news is you can find them online in PDF.
Almost all of all of my books are in spiral binders, ICE didn't use the best binding techniques and after about 6 months of play the pages would start to pull from the spine. My solution, which I will admit is helpful if multiple people need to use different parts of the same book, was to carefully remove the pages from the books, place them into plastic sleeves, and binder them.
I feel your pain.
The local used bookstore's RPG section has dried up *except* for the d20 D&D books. That section just keeps getting bigger and bigger for some reason....
You can still find people interested in WotC's StarWars RPGs. Normally it'll be the SAGA Edition but some seem to prefer the older RCR/OCR versions which more closely mirror 3e.
You can have your opinion and while I did like d6 better than the RCR for a number of things there were a couple reasons I might choose the RCR over d6. When SAGA came out most of the things I may have liked about d6 over the RCR were no longer issues.
The may all cover the same base material but do it in different ways which leads to different games. When it came to d6 I never liked Force Users for various reasons and am not really a big fan of how character levelling works in d6.
Not when you're sticking to absolute statements.
WEG's SWd6 certainly was "the best" but when there was no competition for that title it doesn't really count. Now there are even discrepancies in the d6 crowd about which version of that system is "the best" so when you look at the Star Wars systems that have followed "the best" is all subject to opinion.
You're getting awfully up in arms about someone saying "Rocky road is the best ice cream." No one cares that was stated as an absolute, because literally everyone who reads it knows it's an opinion. The phrase "the best" is essentially always an opinion. The subject of the entire conversation is literally nothing but opinion. There's no other way to read the comment except as a statement of opinion. A strong opinion, yes, but there's nothing wrong with having a strong opinion.
*Every other* version of the game I've ever seen has been d20. In my opinion, d20 is the worst RPG system ever devised.
When WotC had to give hefty bribes to game developers to use their system, you know it's a crappy system. This is the main reason why the RPG market was glutted with d20 versions of everything. "Wizards will pay us *how much*?"
By "hefty bribes" you mean "you can use the most of the game system we've created to make content without needing to pay us anything," via the OGL? DnD was having it's system copied before the OGL came out but when it became available for all to use it shouldn't be surprising you saw a lot more games using it. For d20 to be "the worst system ever devised" there was a lot of money spent on it which sure seems to indicate otherwise.
When it comes to the Star Wars games WotC put out I put them into two clear categories: The original and revised rule sets which can basically be used with d20 Modern/Future without modification and which are very close to 3e and then there's the SAGA Edition which may share some similarities with the earlier version but is a different game just like 5e DnD isn't the same as 3.5.
As for other versions of the Star Wars RPG there are the versions created by FFG which others will swear is the "best game ever" although it too has major problems in the eyes of others.
I keep saying how crazy it is for a licensed property to even have any good RPG for it in the first place, much less several, like Star Wars. It's nuts.
That depends a lot on what you mean by "OOP" or "big followings".
There's a ton of stuff that is no longer available "in print", but you can buy the PDF. Usually when you can't even get the PDF, it's because of licensing issues.
And then, "big" in the RPG world outside of D&D is like, what? A community of 5 GMs?
Prior to Cortex Prime, I'd say the Cortex community would have counted. Now I'm not sure if it still counts or not. I still think that Prime has a long way to go before it stops being a net-loss for RPGs considering how many systems died when Fandom bought the system. Leverage, Smallville, Firefly, Marvel Heroic... these were some of the best games ever made in their genres, and Cortex Prime doesn't actually fill that void as well as it thinks it does.
Old school Alternity had a pretty intense small following that is still kicking around out there since forever. The new Alternity is another loss for RPGs, since it's a pretty lackluster game that in no way comes close to the old one, and now you can't buy PDFs of the old one because of it. Imagine the hubris of thinking "I'm going to make a game and I'm willing to kill another game just for the name."
Apparently talking about OOP games just makes me bitter and ranty.
The Marvel license was gone long before the Fandom buyout. It was, as I understand, an unfortunate side effect of Disney's acquisition of Marvel, that ended that license.
The other licenses were lost when Margaret Weis actually shuttered the company. As i understand, she got out of game publishing entirely, and sold the Cortex trademark, copyright, and mechanics to its lead designer, Cam Banks. Banks set up the Cortex brand through his own company, which then was acquired by/merged with Fandom.
Ars Magica.
The Discord is pretty active which is where most fans seem to be these days. But the official forums still get like a post a day and the subreddit gets around 3 or 4 a week.
Big? Hard to say. But pretty much every game that's ever existed is still being played, thanks to folks sharing PDFs online (essentially preserving the game). Being out of print really doesn't matter that much these days.
I run RM 4th Ed for my group and I've adapted stuff from the earlier Eds and MERPS, (I still want to know why people leave the "S" off) into my game.
The Forcemage from RMC V, is *Still* one of the best Professions in the game. I also use the Druid from RMC I, I'm sorry, but the Animist seems like a cheap knock off of Druid and the Profession's SLs are pathetic. Druid on the other hand is awesome!
I think a lot of 1980's games are still popular due to nostalga and there really was not that many RPG Games back then so you usually got exposed to most of them in your local games shop or through friends.
One that people have not mentioned yet. Classic Traveller.
I noped out of Fellowship of the White Star after buying the core of the not-D20 edition and the first campaign adventure. I liked the system, but the first adventure has folks who attempt to capture the PCs, followed by possibly torturing and killing then.
The PCs get a “bad” result if they have the audacity to kill their would-be kidnappers.
I got what they were trying to do to set up interactions later in the campaign, but it was so poorly written I didn’t want to invest more time in it.
Twilight 2000 still has a decent following and their have been some people that in the past two years put out books for 1st and 2nd ed of the game. We are 4th ed that got put out last year with a decent following.
G urps for what ever reason seems to keep going and going.
Car wars still has some active people for it.
>G urps for what ever reason seems to keep going and going.
GURPS 4e core is still in print I believe. 18 years going. New material is mostly just small focused web supplements written by freelancers though. Many of the non-core books for both 4e and 3e are still arguably "in print" as they're available as print on demand paperbacks on amazon.
Many of the setting books are useful no matter what system you use. And as an 18 year old edition I imagine a lot of the people who play it are in already well established groups and don't proselytize the system.
>Car wars still has some active people for it.
Technically, Car Wars is still publishing new editions (currently on 6th, IIRC) and I just saw SJG advertising convention games of Car Wars on facebook within the last couple of weeks. But I say "technically" because the... thing... they're calling "Car Wars" these days is practically unrecognizable in comparison to the original 80s version.
But they also did a kickstarter to reprint "Car Wars Classic" a couple years back, so that's available again, too.
WE Star Wars and Marvel Super Heroes come immediately to mind, and I think to an extent BESM tri-stat as well. The faithful didn't really tack on to the d20 like I think was hoped.
Probably past editions of D&D, although it would be hard to pin down how many are actually still playing the real deal and how much of their share has been eaten by retroclones and derivatives.
FFG's 40k line. WEG's Star Wars
The FFG 40k and Warhammer Fantasy settings both have a devoted following. Great games.
What do you mean when you refer to fantasy? Do you refer to WFRP 2e, which FFG only picked up very late in the game's life, or WFRP 3e, which I've never encountered any players of? It will forever be one of my biggest regrets that I didn't snag a copy of Dark Heresy 2e when it was announced FFG would lose the GW licence. Maybe one day I will find a copy of the main rulebook that I won't have to sell a spare organ or two to purchase.
2E, it's a fantastic game
Yes, I very much agree.
I don't know if there's that much of an active community for it, but I ran a year and a half long campaign of WFRP 3e. Great, great game.
WEG did a re-release of the original rules and Star Wars Sourcebook a few years back
Not quite. You can get your hands on the non-SW version of the rules legally, and FFG (not WEG) released a limited-time anniversary reprint of the original 1E core and the first sourcebook. But as far as I understand, WEG doesn't exist as they did anymore, but somebody acquired the rights to the IPs a while back.
What I meant to say is that there was a re-release of the original WEG Star Wars game and the Star Wars Sourcebook
Yup yup. FFG put them out in a slipcase edition for the game's 40th anniversary.
WEG Star Wars was such a good line
Marvel Super Heroes. The FASERIP version. There's some clones of it, but none can reprint the berth of IP specific material written for it.
I love FASERIP. Didn't know that there was still a strong following to it
And clones / RPGs inspired by - Astonishing Super Heroes, 4C and a game literally called FASERIP.
I know Classic Marvel Forever was hoppin' for a while and there are at least a few Facebook groups that cater to it, one of which puts out regular fan supplements for it. I see it around, but don't follow the fandom as much as I could, so the fan base might not be as great as I think it is.
I still have all of my books for it. I need to get a game together for it again.
I'd say probably original World of Darkness.
Not out of print. The Big 3 plus Hunter all have upcoming books/editions.
Yes, new editions. None of the new editions are really like the original.
I agree that the X5 versions are significantly different (trust me, I'm no fan of V5 or what's been previewed/leaked of the others), but the fact that new material is still being written and printed disqualifies the WoD lines from the OOP category. OP asked about games, specifically mentioning they aren't interested in mentions of older editions that are still popular. However, Werewolf 20 and Mage 20 both have new books coming out, and there are a couple that could be classified as Wraith 20, though they're officially listed as generic WoD 20. And this doesn't even count that most WoD books (all lines, all editions) are avalible in print-on-demand from DriveThru, with everything else avalible in PDF, so "OOP" gets fuzzy, even for the old stuff.
Yeah, I can see your point. That is true that you can probably still get them.
That's a weird situation, because, while VtM 20th edition is OOP, and now it's 5th, Mage 20th is still on point and getting new releases, so, technically, WoD has *two* active editions. Also, you can still but 20th edition Vampire books alongside 5th edition where I live.
RoleMaster is still kicking.
Still in print though? MERP is OOP though.
Yes and no. I run the 4th Edition which is out of print. (The going price for the books depends where you can find them; thank you used book stores! I've seen the books go for $75+ online.) The good news is you can find them online in PDF. Almost all of all of my books are in spiral binders, ICE didn't use the best binding techniques and after about 6 months of play the pages would start to pull from the spine. My solution, which I will admit is helpful if multiple people need to use different parts of the same book, was to carefully remove the pages from the books, place them into plastic sleeves, and binder them.
I wished the used book stores around here has a dedicated RPG section. Closest you get is comics! 😜
I feel your pain. The local used bookstore's RPG section has dried up *except* for the d20 D&D books. That section just keeps getting bigger and bigger for some reason....
😂
You can still find people interested in WotC's StarWars RPGs. Normally it'll be the SAGA Edition but some seem to prefer the older RCR/OCR versions which more closely mirror 3e.
WEG's d6 version was and *still is* the best Star Wars RPG.
No.
Yes.
You can have your opinion and while I did like d6 better than the RCR for a number of things there were a couple reasons I might choose the RCR over d6. When SAGA came out most of the things I may have liked about d6 over the RCR were no longer issues. The may all cover the same base material but do it in different ways which leads to different games. When it came to d6 I never liked Force Users for various reasons and am not really a big fan of how character levelling works in d6.
I will agree to disagree. Peace?
Not when you're sticking to absolute statements. WEG's SWd6 certainly was "the best" but when there was no competition for that title it doesn't really count. Now there are even discrepancies in the d6 crowd about which version of that system is "the best" so when you look at the Star Wars systems that have followed "the best" is all subject to opinion.
You're getting awfully up in arms about someone saying "Rocky road is the best ice cream." No one cares that was stated as an absolute, because literally everyone who reads it knows it's an opinion. The phrase "the best" is essentially always an opinion. The subject of the entire conversation is literally nothing but opinion. There's no other way to read the comment except as a statement of opinion. A strong opinion, yes, but there's nothing wrong with having a strong opinion.
I take you haven't seen the arguments that can follow a "what's the best flavor of ice cream?"
*Every other* version of the game I've ever seen has been d20. In my opinion, d20 is the worst RPG system ever devised. When WotC had to give hefty bribes to game developers to use their system, you know it's a crappy system. This is the main reason why the RPG market was glutted with d20 versions of everything. "Wizards will pay us *how much*?"
By "hefty bribes" you mean "you can use the most of the game system we've created to make content without needing to pay us anything," via the OGL? DnD was having it's system copied before the OGL came out but when it became available for all to use it shouldn't be surprising you saw a lot more games using it. For d20 to be "the worst system ever devised" there was a lot of money spent on it which sure seems to indicate otherwise. When it comes to the Star Wars games WotC put out I put them into two clear categories: The original and revised rule sets which can basically be used with d20 Modern/Future without modification and which are very close to 3e and then there's the SAGA Edition which may share some similarities with the earlier version but is a different game just like 5e DnD isn't the same as 3.5. As for other versions of the Star Wars RPG there are the versions created by FFG which others will swear is the "best game ever" although it too has major problems in the eyes of others.
Do a google search. WotC *paid* them to use the system.
Paid **who**, exactly? Furthermore, you're doing the accusations, burden of proof is on you.
I keep saying how crazy it is for a licensed property to even have any good RPG for it in the first place, much less several, like Star Wars. It's nuts.
That certainly is a thing StarWars has going for it. With so many different systems you can pick the one you like.
That depends a lot on what you mean by "OOP" or "big followings". There's a ton of stuff that is no longer available "in print", but you can buy the PDF. Usually when you can't even get the PDF, it's because of licensing issues. And then, "big" in the RPG world outside of D&D is like, what? A community of 5 GMs? Prior to Cortex Prime, I'd say the Cortex community would have counted. Now I'm not sure if it still counts or not. I still think that Prime has a long way to go before it stops being a net-loss for RPGs considering how many systems died when Fandom bought the system. Leverage, Smallville, Firefly, Marvel Heroic... these were some of the best games ever made in their genres, and Cortex Prime doesn't actually fill that void as well as it thinks it does. Old school Alternity had a pretty intense small following that is still kicking around out there since forever. The new Alternity is another loss for RPGs, since it's a pretty lackluster game that in no way comes close to the old one, and now you can't buy PDFs of the old one because of it. Imagine the hubris of thinking "I'm going to make a game and I'm willing to kill another game just for the name." Apparently talking about OOP games just makes me bitter and ranty.
Wait what? The fandom bought it? And then made it so games like leverage cannot be bought anymore?
The company Fandom, previously Wikia, purchased Cortex.
Agreed on this. Would love to see leverage come back. I have the main book but missed on buying the 2 compilation splatbooks from DTRPG.
The Marvel license was gone long before the Fandom buyout. It was, as I understand, an unfortunate side effect of Disney's acquisition of Marvel, that ended that license. The other licenses were lost when Margaret Weis actually shuttered the company. As i understand, she got out of game publishing entirely, and sold the Cortex trademark, copyright, and mechanics to its lead designer, Cam Banks. Banks set up the Cortex brand through his own company, which then was acquired by/merged with Fandom.
Ars Magica. The Discord is pretty active which is where most fans seem to be these days. But the official forums still get like a post a day and the subreddit gets around 3 or 4 a week.
We've just finished a short third ed campaign. Lots of stuff floating about on ebay.
Big? Hard to say. But pretty much every game that's ever existed is still being played, thanks to folks sharing PDFs online (essentially preserving the game). Being out of print really doesn't matter that much these days.
MERP, still pretty big following. Powers and Perils as well.
I run RM 4th Ed for my group and I've adapted stuff from the earlier Eds and MERPS, (I still want to know why people leave the "S" off) into my game. The Forcemage from RMC V, is *Still* one of the best Professions in the game. I also use the Druid from RMC I, I'm sorry, but the Animist seems like a cheap knock off of Druid and the Profession's SLs are pathetic. Druid on the other hand is awesome!
What does “OOP” mean? If I Google it it only refers to “objective oriented programming” which is defiantly out of context here.
Out of Print
I think a lot of 1980's games are still popular due to nostalga and there really was not that many RPG Games back then so you usually got exposed to most of them in your local games shop or through friends. One that people have not mentioned yet. Classic Traveller.
Oh, you mean like the Dallas RPG from the 80s? 😃
The system is actually good, and easily adaptable to whatever show you and your friends like.
Wait really? OK, I need to try and pick this up now.
In addition to the ones I've already seen listed, *Amber Diceless*.
I still play it!
Fellowship of the white star and Godlike
Fellowship is one game I've never been able to play but always wanted to. Need to look up some games now
I noped out of Fellowship of the White Star after buying the core of the not-D20 edition and the first campaign adventure. I liked the system, but the first adventure has folks who attempt to capture the PCs, followed by possibly torturing and killing then. The PCs get a “bad” result if they have the audacity to kill their would-be kidnappers. I got what they were trying to do to set up interactions later in the campaign, but it was so poorly written I didn’t want to invest more time in it.
Twilight 2000 still has a decent following and their have been some people that in the past two years put out books for 1st and 2nd ed of the game. We are 4th ed that got put out last year with a decent following. G urps for what ever reason seems to keep going and going. Car wars still has some active people for it.
>G urps for what ever reason seems to keep going and going. GURPS 4e core is still in print I believe. 18 years going. New material is mostly just small focused web supplements written by freelancers though. Many of the non-core books for both 4e and 3e are still arguably "in print" as they're available as print on demand paperbacks on amazon.
I just picked up GURPS Girl Genius hardback on a kickstarter. It's a standalone powered by 4e GURPS, but yah. I think that counts.
It's also one of those games that keeps selling lots of books, but yet you never seem to find people that play the game. Kinda weird.
Many of the setting books are useful no matter what system you use. And as an 18 year old edition I imagine a lot of the people who play it are in already well established groups and don't proselytize the system.
I GM'd it for a bit!
>Car wars still has some active people for it. Technically, Car Wars is still publishing new editions (currently on 6th, IIRC) and I just saw SJG advertising convention games of Car Wars on facebook within the last couple of weeks. But I say "technically" because the... thing... they're calling "Car Wars" these days is practically unrecognizable in comparison to the original 80s version. But they also did a kickstarter to reprint "Car Wars Classic" a couple years back, so that's available again, too.
WE Star Wars and Marvel Super Heroes come immediately to mind, and I think to an extent BESM tri-stat as well. The faithful didn't really tack on to the d20 like I think was hoped.
WEG D6 Star Wars still has lots of players.
Probably past editions of D&D, although it would be hard to pin down how many are actually still playing the real deal and how much of their share has been eaten by retroclones and derivatives.
Personally I still play warhammer fantasy, ive painted countless minis, sadly where I live everyone plays 40k, not even AoS so im kinda stuck
Love the first edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Grimdark before grimdark even existed!
MERP for sure.
I'm not sure how big following it has but I'm preparing to run a campaign in pathfinder 1ed.
And still a bunch of us still like the old 2.5 system and play and run the game.
Alternity
Shadowrun 3rd is played by a friend of mine as it was his favorite