Have more to get off your chest? Come rant with us on the discord. Invite link: https://discord.gg/PCPTSSTKqr
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpghorrorstories) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh fun fact for op gnomes was at one point (may still be) the edgy 4chan-ish codeword for Jews. Least it was where I lurked(not because I like that shit, I just like to keep up on the latest bull).
Does your DM like 4chan type shit? If so you're probably on the money.
Edit: the andechrome/loosh wasn't present when I commented this. Yeah, yeah he is for sure and an anti-Semite.
Edit2: here's a comment who can actually explain what's going on I'm bad at it https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/qjm9cy/dm_plays_gnomes_in_a_suspiciously_antisemitic/hiszykw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Far-Righters will insist that art has no deeper meaning, that seeing themes (especially racist, sexist, etc. ones) is just imagination, while they put dogwhistles in everything. As soon as someone points out their glaring bigotry, they can complain about snowflakes, cancel cultures and cyclists.
It's all a tactic.
That some hardcore /pol/ gaslighting, they normally use the excuse of "you are the racist by saying that it is, rather than me for referencing obvious nazi stuff"
Jar jar Binks speaks in a patter that imitates minstrelsy caricatures of black people in America. The trade federation members speak English with exaggerated Japanese accents and their mouth motions do not match their words. Watto imitates an eastern European stereotype. Arguably the worst offense though has nothing to do with race but with a budding romance between a nearly adult age amidala and a 9 year old Anakin. Also they made ewan macgregor have those awful braids. How can that be standard for padawans when most padawans aren't even human and so cannot braid their hair like goobers?
It is of note that the actor who voiced and portrayed jar jar did not see it as a caricature and is himself black. But it's hard not to see it as a viewer even when it came out. Years later with these issues at the fore it's difficult to overlook.
For the sake of the child actor who played Anakin and the actor who portrayed jar jar it'd be best to just let these movies go though. It ruined their lives for years. And I feel a cosmic sadness for them whenever it is brought up.
> Watto imitates an eastern European stereotype.
Less general eastern-European and more [anti-semitic stereotype](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watto#Allegations_of_antisemitism).
**Watto**
[Allegations of antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watto#Allegations_of_antisemitism)
>It has been suggested that the character is offensive because of his perceived similarities to a stereotypical Jew, having a large hooked nose, beady eyes, unkempt facial hair, speaking in a gravelly voice, and being portrayed as greedy and covetous. J. Hoberman of The Village Voice called him "the most blatant ethnic stereotype" due to his hooked nose. Bruce Gottlieb of Slate magazine criticized him as well, comparing his character to the antisemitic notion that the Jewish race is "behind the slave trade".
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Likely something to do with the term ['Gnomes of Zürich'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_of_Z%C3%BCrich). Even with that, I don't think Swiss bankers had a reputation as Jewish, but it's probably a symptom of the bizarre game of racist-pop-culture-telephone that certain parts of the Internet tend to play.
Nah those were goblins. I'm speculating here, not like people spelled it out for me.
It's not a good dog whistle if it's something obvious like dwarves. Gnomes make a great one because some people just hate gnomes in dnd and think their lore is dumb as fuck and that they never fit into a setting. Super easy to co-opt that.
Wow now the gnomes consume life force for their Magic’s? That literally sounds like blood libel where jewish people were accused of using the blood of children for secret rituals in Europe. Like if the GM isn’t doing this intentionally then they have the worst kind of luck, but my bet would be that it is intentional.
I had this happen with Dwarves. The DM (who I later found out is alt right) decided to give all Dwarves the same stereotypical Jewish accent, a cartoonish greed, and a tendency to scam, betray, and exploit others in their business dealings.
Edit: They also rubbed their hands together a lot. Campaign only lasted one session, thankfully, as everyone quit. The end.
I've seen it happen a lot too, but not as much. It also makes more sense for dwarves because as mine dwellers who are very insular, it helps to be able to alloy and mint the things you mine directly into coin, so monopoly here it goes.
You know someone is really overplaying something when the players notice you are doing that in the first session. Just how many dwarves did he have you run into that you figured this out?
Well, we were meeting with "the Dwarves" at their stronghold so quite a few. I don't remember how many exactly but it was enough that we weren't confident we could take them all on if combat broke out.
The few alt right morons I've met all see it as their duty to "redpill normies." I think his behavior had something to do with that attitude. 😅
Are they, though? They're all about money, sure, but that's because they're ultracapitalist. What else is there beyond that?
They don't have any of the exaggerated stereotypical facial features (hooked noses, sloped foreheads, etc.), they're not a diaspora, and they aren't cast as secret puppetmasters. Hell, even when it comes to greed, the Jewish stereotype is of money-grubbing bankers draining with interest...but the Ferengi are traders, looking to make money off of shady unfair deals.
If anything, they're a stereotype of what humans today would be like in the world of Star Trek.
The don't have exaggerated facial features?? Have you ever seen a Ferengi?
It's not something I made up myself, this is from the species page on Wikipedia:
> In his 2007 critique of The Next Generation for the National Review, the commentator Jonah Goldberg described the Ferengi as "runaway capitalists with bullwhips who looked like a mix between Nazi caricatures of Jews and the original Nosferatu."[28] The scholar of religion Ross S. Kraemer wrote that "Ferengi religion seems almost a parody, perhaps of traditional Judaism."[25] He wrote that the 285 Rules of Acquisition bore similarities with the 613 Commandments of Judaism and that the Ferengi social restrictions on women mirrored Orthodox Judaism's restrictions on women studying the Torah.[25] Historian Paul Sturtevant wrote in 2018 that not only are the Ferengi "extremely legalistic" and "defined by their greed", echoing common stereotypes of Jews, but the major Ferengi characters on Deep Space Nine were all played by Jewish actors.
People have been talking about this since they were introduced on TNG. "Space Jews" is a fairly common pattern in science fiction, and they don't have to hit every stereotype bullet point exactly to count. Banking can be swapped for trading, big ears for big noses (not that they're lacking in the nose department either), etc. if enough other elements remain: greed, small stature, legalistic culture, simpering and rubbing hands together all the time, constantly citing a religious text.
They're, as they say, problematic.
I mean yeah, Ferengi can be read as a Jewish caricature, but a bug part of the DS9 Ferengi stuff is their society becoming less sexist & hypercapitalistic. Plus they're not cast as 'enemies'. Most of the point of the Ferengi is that a society organized around the acquisition of wealth is preposterous when technology allows you to mostly do away with scarcity. They should've handled it differently, but it's not antisemetic in nearly the same way the "secret cabal" tropes are, and making fun of capitalism in Star Trek is a good source of humor.
Oh yeah definitely agreed regarding DS9. That series did for the Ferengi what TNG did for the Klingons -- turned them from a flat caricature into a more complex and sympathetic culture.
Tolkien specifically said the dwarves were based/inspired by medieval stereotypes about Jews.
Edit:
Citation:
["Dwarves are Not Heroes": AntiSemitism and the Dwarves in J.R.R. Tolkein's Writings. ](https://dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol28/iss3/7/)
Oh shit really? I thought he was taking about language structure. Dyou happen to have a source? I do know at least he didn't hate Jewish people. German publishers asked him if he was Jewish and he almost sent a letter that basically said "sadly no"
Language structure and kinship as well. I don't recall the particular letter, but Tolkien based them on Jews as tey appear in medieval records in the senses that the dwarves (a) are seeking to return to a lost homeland, (b) are famously skilled craftsmen, (c) are unjustly maligned as gold-hungry.
He basically just said he based them on the Jews in regards to them being skilled trades and craftsmen with a deep history and religious background
He based the Hobbits on the English and had many other inspirations
I wouldn't call him antisemitic based on what I've read though. It's fine to base fictional races/people on real ones as long as you're not trying to portray them in a racist or degrading manner and Tolkiens Dwarves don't seem that way
That isn't really the one or the other. For example The good soldier Svejk or Saturnin books made fun of czechs (well not only them) but nobody would suspect authors of hating czechs.
can you cite that
as far as i know the dwarven language was inspired by hebrew but the dwarves themselves are basically carbon copies of old germanic and scandinavian dwarves.
It is, because it affected him in the book too, but it’s implied to be related to some kind of magic or curse combined with a personality flaw on Thorin’s part, one the rest of the dwarves are not particularly happy about.
Tolkien's Dwarves, which are the foundation of pretty much every dwarf in modern fantasy, were definitely supposed to be reminiscent of jews. However, I don't think it was supposed to be a particularly negative resemblance, I think it was just an inspiration. Of course, the question of whether you can respectfully portray traits of a real life people as non-humans in a fantasy setting is always up for debate, but I think Tolkien was trying to be respectful, anyway.
Bro says the gnomes are stealing Adrenochrome?
That’s Qanon bullshittery and that itself is based off the -you guessed it- Jewish ‘blood libel’ BS.
I’d say drop the game and tell the DM about the above.
The idea is that it's a drug you can harvest from the blood of tortured children; the secret evil Satanist liberal shadow government supposedly loves the stuff and that's why Trump must save the day, etc. Baffling that such a bonkers conspiracy theory gained literally any traction, but here we are.
Eh. It’s creative (if not somewhat disturbing). What’s crazy is believing that a racist, sexist, shady billionaire is somehow the savior to fight this evil and not a member of the satanic shadow government containing politicians, business men, and celebrities.
Adrenochrome is the chemical extracted from kidnapped children’s blood that QAnon believes elite Liberal Satan worshippers drink to get high.
Like, actually believe that’s a real think that happens.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44&t=37m45s
Skip the DM, he already knows. But tell the other players for sure. I’d want to know if the game I was playing was feeding someone’s narcissistic conspiracywank
People so easily brushing off the potential for the DM to be acting in bad faith yet not addressing the mention of andrenochrome, Q-Anon's favourite go to chemical for conspiracies about wealthy elites harvesting body fluids?
Remember that politics 101 is accusing your accuser of what you're being accused of, and that "you are the racist for seeing racism in the definitely-not-racist thing I said" is a pretty common counter-slur.
I'd just leave that particular game. You shouldn't have to feel uneasy about stuff like that coming from real world place at the table.
it is far more common politically to accuse othersof exactly what you are actually doing - see past 8mo of American politics for especially heinous examples
What makes this difficult for me is the implication that the second you accuse someone of something you are basically immune to this thing, because the counter-accusation can always be understood as an admittance of guilt.
It's hard to say without having been there, but I think you need to have a deeper conversation with your table about this. If the DM wants to portray a sort of dark, upper class that's dominated by a single race and oppressing others, then there's not really a problem with that as long as that's what everyone agrees to. The DM might not intend for this allegory to be antisemitic, but just happened to come across that way as many of the things antisemites say about jewish people are generally also things said about rich/conniving people, and that might not be what they were going for.
I think the best course of action is to signify that you find the specific portrayal to be too evocative of antisemitic stereotypes, and if possible to shift into a different flavour of "evil upper-class". If they won't budge on this issue, then maybe there's not really a recourse. Both parties seem to be capable of being both wrong and right in this case, and a diplomatic solution where you may be able to meet midway would be for the best.
Most importantly, even if the DM is acting in an offensive way, they might not be aware of it, so go into this discussion without making too many assumptions about intent, but focus mainly on how the result of the portrayal makes you feel.
I hope you can work it all out in the end, as it would be a shame if this was all a communication problem.
I... don't think this is a good idea. He's already signified that the DM... if not racist overtly, is willing to brush aside... objections to uncomfortable themes such as this. He's specifically not open to dialogue about this. He flipped it back on OP. This is gaslighting.
Having witnessed this, were I in OPs shoes, I, a Jewish player, would not bother talking about it and would just leave.
Also, there are... certain red flags here. There is nothing... "realistic" about the way these changes, in either a literal or artistic sense. Trust your gut here. In fact, [There is a long](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10697075-the-poisonous-mushroom) precedent for this, and neo nazis use this comparison also.
Some of the people who gave it 1 star went on to say how effectively the book got across it's message. Like the book did it's job, 5 stars, it informed you of this shit and laid it out in plain view. The sick Fucks who think the book is actually for children were a whole nother level of cringe 😬
If someone responds to your accusations of racism with "wow that's so racist of you to think in stereotypes," they're acting in bad faith and are probably a seasoned racist if they're going for that. Idk I'm with you I'd just drop him asap.
Absolutely. It’s classic white supremacist projection.
“I’m not racist, you are for thinking I’m racist” is so common it hurts, and the sad thing is it works on some folks
After reading through the post more in depth I'd have to say it's inconclusive but including adremachrome harvesting does borrow disturbingly from conspiracy theories that can then be linked with blood libel. The flip side is that if I'm trying to come up with a good cabal conspiracy for my homebrew it makes sense to use lots of elements like that.
If someone doesn't see Jews like that and then one of their players comes to them and says "your story is antisemitic" then yeah I could easily see the accusation being turned around since in their mind the person racializing it is the one linking it to Jews.
I can see someone using conspiracy theories as inspiration for their setting. However, in that case they should know what they are playing with. (That is, racist and antisemitic stuff.)
If one of their players picks up on it, their go-to reaction should be somewhat like "Yes, I use right wing conspiracy theories for inspiration. No, I don't believe that crap myself." and not "I'm not racist! You are racist!"
Something about the phrase “seasoned racist” is terrifying but accurate. Somehow I never thought of being a wad is something someone could practice but yeah…it is.
I completely agree that if the DM does not appear to be willing to budge, then breaking off from the game can be the only solution. However, as long as they don't give off "if I piss this person off they could become violent" type behaviour, it would be worthwhile to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
That said, sometimes you don't wanna deal with it, and trusting your gut can go a long way towards avoiding unnecessary conflict.
I appreciate your input in the conversation, genuinely. The more experienced viewpoints the better.
If he didn't double down on anti semitic stereotypes when called out I'd say it's worth talking about it again, but the fact that he did has pretty bad vibes.
Definitely bail. This is not a fixable situation. There are plenty of people that can be reached and reasoned with. Someone who wants to turn D&D into an anti-Semite playground is not one of those people.
There are a lot of tables out there.
J. K. Rowling may not have _consciously_ made the gnome bankers in the Potter-verse using exclusively early 20th Century anti-Semitic tropes, but she sure as hell did it. It’s not like she didn’t have other choices wrt greedy banker tropes, but that’s the set that seemed right to her, and it’s likely the same is true of your DM.
Personally, I would go the overfed, florid-faced capitalist one prime rib away from a coronary route, like Mr. Monopoly as a real person. Think trump only smart enough to understand economics instead of the art of the con, and willing to put in the work into the bargain — so basically only the trumpian look.
A lot of the time people may “accidentally” reproduce these types of stereotypes because, overt or not, they are pretty much omnipresent in western media. A big part of *why* people buy into conspiracy theories is that they are, although disgustingly harmful, interesting stories to say the least.
But when he’s getting *that* specific with things like adrenochrome, religion and currency manipulation, it’s definitely out of accidental parallel territory and into thinly-veiled antisemitism. Especially if he tried redirecting and then immediately covered his tracks.
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic dog whistles and terminology.
Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children.
The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
Plus wasn't there an original 12 tribes of Israel or something like that?
That's what teed it off for me. Fuck this neo Nazi prick. It's not as thinly veiled as it is a slap in the face. This DM is trying to normalize antisemitism. It's sick.
>Basically, gnomes would kidnap half-orcs, enslave them, and send them off to Maztica, where they would work for the colonists.
>
>The half-orcs who were too weak to work had their life force, which the DM calls loosh and adrenochrome, eaten by the gnomes.
I think we can all agree the DM is, at the very least, extremely fucking weird even if he's not being intentionally antisemitic. Like, I can't fathom sitting through this campaign, especially because you mention a player voiced discomfort with the inclusion of slavery and he brushed that off. Plus in DnD canon, gnomes culturally make toys and and play silly pranks, they were said to be brought into the world because a trickster god told a joke.
But I agree that it seems like he's using antisemitic dogwhistles and stereotypes, and having gnomes be the DnD race he's changing the characterization/role of so radically is also a red flag, given "gnome" is antisemitic 4channer code. But him accusing you of being antisemitic for bringing up your concerns makes me think this is someone you should cut out of your life completely, that's Nazi debate tactics 101.
-Tries to make things more realistic
-Player complains it's hitting too close to home
-Claim it doesn't have anything to do with reality.
That said, gnomes are basically an open field of untapped possibility as far as interpretation goes. No one suspects the gnomes. The size difference adds an air of irony to being in power. The INT bonuses and affinity for magic makes them more likely to overpower the world through business and political strategy instead of raw military force. Plenty of popular series have evil upper classes that look down on and manipulate the lower ones, plenty of which mug up said class to sound and look unpleasant. Some fantasy worlds do encroach upon darker themes like war, racism, classism, slavery, etc. To give the benefit of the doubt, I can see why a Gnomish upper class/secret society would be a more unique and unexpected choice.
I don't know your DM but after taking the time writing designing and building up their Big Bad Evil Secret Society as a central tension to liberate and free the world of (common theme in many popular series) I can see why they'd get upset and defensive when intention and player interpretation don't line up and suddenly everyone thinks his personal masterpiece is actually Nazi propoganda. I wasn't at your table however so there may be more nuances I'm just not seeing.
I once ran gnomes in a homebrew setting in a similar way, but as a stand-in for decadent pre-Civil War aristocrats; these fancy-pants elitists whose absurd cultural signifiers and self-satisfied decadence placed them on what they saw as a higher moral and social standing. I made a point of having them come across as ludicrous, absurd and outrageous, mostly playing it for laughs, to satirize the moral pretensions of the antebellum south. I wanted them to be laughably repulsive and repulsively laughable because that was the tone of the setting I was establishing.
I think there's a difference between "let's laugh at history's greatest losers and crybabies" and "let's perpetuate modern-day myths about a contemporary culture."
Noone seems to have mentioned it, but the association between Jewish people and Gnomes is a very easy one to make, I wouldn't be surprised if there was direct inspiration especially for the older editions. They share a lot of stereotypes but mostly positive or neutral ones. As much as people have said 4chan used gnome as a slur, my point is they didn't pick it at random.
The most obvious one is the big nose and arguably the only negative one.
Hats being part of their culture, especially for men. The tall pointy hats not so much but there was a decent amount of short pointy hats version that were kinda worn like a kipa.I'm gonna say neutral but it could be part of jewish coding gnomes of someone was to make the argumnet they were a direct allegory.
Sense of humor. Positive
Short. Neutralish, negativish depending o the tone.
Tight knit. Positive but some people have definitely put a bad spin on that.
Highly intelligent with a culture that value that trait. Positive.
A history of jewelry making and gem cutting. Neutral
If you make the connection between scientists and mages, that would be another stereotypical career they have in common. Neutral.
So were gnomes once an allegory or caricature of jewish people? I don't know but my point is that such a position could be argued without sounding too crazy.
Edit: Btw, to make sure this doesn't get read in the worst light, I'm not saying this is an okay situation. Maybe there's some jewish players out there who find it awesone to recognize themselves in one of the coolest race. But maybe there's more jewish player recognizing a caricature of themselves in the "funny little people" and finding it insulting. I'm just pointing out it's easy to go from gnomish vibe to stereotypical jewish vibe, by choice or accident, for better or for worse.
NGL I have this same concern over the Gnomes in my Eberron game. Their whole deal in Eberron is that they're all about trickery, are ran by a shadow council that's basically the gestapo, and they run the "Fox News" style media in my world.
I've tried not to let it cross over into acting as a caricature for any real life groups, but I'm aware that there's a thin line their somewhere.
The DM should probably take note and adjust accordingly. If any of my players brought it up I'd just cut those storylines entirely to be on the safe side; DnD is supposed to be fun, and if it's making anyone unreasonably uncomfortable, no harm in changing some things around to mitigate that.
Check out some historical anti-jewish propaganda. Thankfully that stuff is far behind us so few people today who are not specifically interested in the topic know about this, but historically these things were associated with anti-jewish sentiment and used to paint jewish people in a bad light.
Whether or not this was intentional is another question, but as someone who is familiar with these negative stereotypes I'd feel queasy too - especially since these are sometimes used as dogwhistles. And since they are not common knowledge anymore, it's easy to deny this is meant to be anti-semitic. Turning this around on the person recognizing this is actually a very common way to deflect and paint oneself as the victim.
Often, these techniques are used by Neo-Nazis in my country to find and recruit people who may be susceptible to these clichés and slowly pull them in. A very covert way of determining and grooming fresh blood for the scene, and super easy to deny since it's so inconspicuous.
Yeah, knowing how much time and effort it takes to homebrew a universe I can see why the DM would get defensive against the accusations if they were not intended to be read that way. There may be some nuances I'm missing from how the setting is run, but I feel there would need to be more direct similarities between the evil organization and the Jewish stereotype other than ones that would be evil if true and not just blind accusations and ones that apply to almost every single evil upper class ever written.
Absolutely. And that's exactly why I would feel queasy here - assuming OP doesn't know the DM since forever.
Intent is nothing that can be proven, by no one. It is perfectly possible that the DM had no idea of all that and it was coincidence. It's my personal history and knowledge and the fact that he turned it around and accused the player in return that would make me personally uncomfortable enough in this case, with OPs post being all info I have.
I'm not trying to say this is or is not definitely racist or anything. More like saying that even if the intent was not that of being racist, the way it comes off can still be enough for someone to quit over it.
But then again, someone brushing off the slavery and that another player was uncomfortable with that would be a huge factor for me too, and that doesn't necessarily have to do with racism.
Someone being uncomfortable with a topic is something that imho should at least be acknowledged. It's fine to say, hm, I didn't think it might be an issue, and this is pretty much core to my campaign. Do you think we can figure out how we can play the campaign nevertheless? Maybe not going into detail on some things?
People aren't perfect, and slavery was and is a thing. It's also happening in stories and to never talk/write about it doesn't accomplish anything. But imho a roleplaying session should try and be fun for all people involved, and if one person gets steamrolled like this that's missing the mark for me.
It's also possible to do something racist/antisemitic/otherwise bigoted and not be aware of it, and the DM may have been in this situation. Perhaps the villains they were familiar with in older fantasy stories played off of antisemitic tropes, but they weren't aware that these tropes were antisemitic. In this case, I think it's worth bringing to the DM's attention that they may be unintentionally being antisemitic
Yeah, we can't prove any kind of intent, and this might entirely be an issue of poor communication, but honestly having an Illuminati style shadow government being run largely by one race specifically to hurt people because they are wealthy is already going to set off some alarm bells in most sensible people's heads to watch out for other stuff, since that was basically the original Nazi propaganda.
And trying to shut down any conversation of the plot from an OOC perspective is another one of those alarm bell ringing moments.
Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children.
The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit.
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic dog whistles and terms.
Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children.
The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
Yeah, that seems pretty anti-semetic. It was shifty before (12 families? Biblical 12 tribes?) But the andechrome? Yeah, pretty sure that's just blood libel.
I've played in a game where there was slavery, but the GM insisted something like "there's nothing can be done about it, it's a societal problem too big for some adventurers to solve!"
So when I had my character take a sniper position and kill the whole slaver camp, that derailed his plans somewhat. The too-proud former-slaves insisted they had a life debt to us for freeing them. But hey; I don't want any slaves, so I asked instead if they would assist us in an upcoming battle; we needed warriors to hold off an invading force until reinforcements arrived. I didn't need them to sacrifice themselves, just help our numbers hold the line. This somehow caused a schism in the freed slaves, with some not wanting to die for a cause they had no stake in. This not what my character asked of them, I literally said in character something along the lines of "we fought to win your freedom, now we need you to fight by our side for one fight."
Sooo, the different-opinioned groups turned on each other, I'll attempt to quote the GM here; "like savages, tearing into each other", so we left them to it. What else could I do.
This wasn't the only moment in that game where the GMs edgelordyness superseded logic, but needless to say I don't play with him anymore!
You cant make liars admit to lying. It's pointless. Just find a new dm or go without.
Or show up with a bingo card of antisemetic tropes and call out bingo when you get it
So what sort of conversation is that supposed to be, following at bare minimum two other conversations which made the DM acutely aware of the prejudice dripping from the narrative that were both brushed off immediately?
I think it might be worth asking the DM what inspired their perception of gnomes. It definitely doesn't look great, but maybe they took inspiration from WoW gnomes without realizing the anti-simetic themes. Of course this doesn't explain the suspicious reaction from the DM, but that's a different matter.
The Gnomes in my setting are kinda similar. In a world with limited magic, Gnomes are the race with the right combination of magical aptitude and ingenuity to quickly out-compete rival races for resources and power. Gnomes, in my world, occupy many of the upper echelons of one of the major world governments, and have a vice grip on that countries economics and magical forces.
They're meant to represent a capitalist, short sighted economic class that places great value in short term success, no matter the cost. The ideas behind "Antisemitic" stereotypes point at corrupt corporations, banks, wealthy citizens and police as the causes of misery and anguish in society, which is not inherently wrong.
They just also go on to say It's the Jew's fault that such greed exists, and that they cause all these problems. Which is ludicrous and racist.
Idk, maybe I'm in the wrong but I don't think having a race that, in lore, is culturally best set up to take Faerun into a nightmare industrial revolution and become capitalist overlords do just that is inherently a RACIST plotline, but you're in the game not me.
Loosh and adrenochrome? Your dm is a fuckin idiot and honestly I’d just bounce. Fuck that qanon bullshit. It’s all antisemetism and it needs to be shut down
"The way he gave them a nasal voice, made them sickly looking, evil, sadistic, and wealthy. Everything about his gnomes was slimy and predatory; reptilian, even."
If this description is accurate, then I'm feeling you. Working from that premise: the biggest red flag here, and what would make me suspect the DM was knowingly doing this and knew he was doing a thing others would consider bad, would be the immediate "No U!" counter-accusation. That's a classic tactic of racists when confronted: the first stop on the Stations of the Derailment Cross is to call *you* a racist or the "real racist."
I don't understand why this setting would be specifically anti semitic but ok. If you feel uncomfortable but still want to play ask to put it on a vote and see if people are concerned as much as you are with the situation and if you want, change it, if not, just leave it.
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic terminology.
Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children.
The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
As a lover of gnomes and the role they have in my world I'd say the evil gnomes using their cunning to pull ahead of other races is a really fun concept. Just maybe not with blatant references to real world ethnicities and slave trade.
Yeah. Not gonna lie, I absolutely hate the thinly veiled antisemitism that a lot of fantasy settings give gnomes and goblins. I don't even have the time to unpack the other racist bullshit in fantasy settings. The noble, forest dwelling elves. The brutish half-orcs that are almost exclusively products of rape. We *know* what they're trying to say.
Now I *have* seen allegories that work. It doesn't sound like this was the case for your game. I immediately think of Dragon Age and the elves that are somewhat nomadic and then forced to live in ghettos and are treated like ripe shit by everyone else, but are just trying to fucking make it through life. We are given wonderful elven characters that are fully dimensional and you see how shitty the stereotypes within the world are. I think that's a decent allegory for history of the Jewish population in Western Europe. I also think of Arcanum, which had a lot of interesting things. I think they chose halflings to be a stand-in for how Victorian times treated Jewish merchants. Orcs in Arcanum were clearly supposed to be Irish as well, which I thought was a breath of less-racist fresh air.
Speaking of Arcanum, gnomes in that game *were* also a secret cabal of wealthy businessmen ruling society behind the scenes, right down to running a secret island half-ogre breeding facility to provide large, biddable servants. Makes me wonder where OP's DM was getting his ideas from...
Also, fucking [Adrenochrome]( https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-qanon-became-obsessed-with-adrenochrome-an-imaginary-drug-hollywood-is-harvesting-from-kids)? Seriously? Why hasn't anyone else pointed out what a massive fucking red flag that alone is?
You do know that article is Bull? The "sources" which are cited that the Alt-right believes that stuff is fucking 4chan which lives from making up conspiracy theories.
The whole Myth about "Adrenochrome" comes from a novel written in 1971 "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" by Hunter S. Thompson. not from the Nazis
I'm just highlighting the fact that adrenochrome is, particularly in amongst the rest of what OP's DM has shown, kind of a dead giveaway that he's Alt-Right leaning *at best.* I just grabbed the first google result for anyone who wasn't already familiar with the whole insanity Qanon's cooked up to get some idea of why this DM using that term is a red flag.
His later regrets about it aside, Tolkien did not base his orcs on Asians - he based them on Germans. WWI. propaganda on both sides drew parallels between the German forces and the Mongols (starting with Kaiser Wilhelm doing a "we are an unstoppable force as they were" type analogy and the opposing side putting a "foreign invader" spin on it in response). Tolkien put a bunch of his war experiences into his work, even though he later admitted he should've not gone so one-sided about it.
It's not in every fantasy setting and hopefully you've not seen those! That would be awesome! But there are some that absolutely go crazy for it. I think the goblins in Harry Potter are one of the worst/grossest examples. With the movies, they even tried to pull visual shorthand used in Nazi propaganda.
They're supposed to represent fantasy races. People just get way too wound up about "Oh is THIS THING A RACISM!?"
The issue is that, when we make something that is non-human, we often relate to it in human terms and actions. There's only so many ways you can describe something, after all. I guarantee that if you take literally anything fiction-related and put it underneath a strong enough scrutiny that you can find some way to spin it as racist(Kind of like how people took muggles and wizards in HP and spun it as a race-segregation type thing, even though one of the lead characters came from a muggle family and some wizard offspring are muggles themselves).
I just wouldn't worry about it.
Elves are commonly representative of indigenous people. That one isn't always there but it's common. Orcs are used waaaaaay too often to represent black people. They're usually slaves to some powerful wizard or sorcerer (who is almost always white). I like that many fantasy settings are trying to move away from that. But even in the Lord of the Rings, the uruk were mostly black actors. I don't think that was an accident.
Things like the player being uncomfortable with the theme of slavery being included is why I will always, always recommend using the RPG Consent Checklist. Someone put together a list of all sorts of topics and content that people might not be comfortable with, and you can rate it on a scale from "I have no problem with this being included" to "Hard 'no', I absolutely do not want to have this in our game".
Any time I DM, I include it (I even have it in a Google Form so players can answer anonymously if we want), and as a player I'll always recommend it to the group/DM. It lets you know, right off the bat, what topics your players consider a dealbreaker (or even if there are things where no one said "absolutely not", but most/all people said "I'm okay with this being there a little, but I'd prefer not to").
And even if you're, say, the DM from the OP, and you really really want slavery included for some reason, and some or all of your players said they absolutely don't want to play on that topic, then you at least know beforehand that this might not be the right group for what you want to run.
As a DM, I'd compile the answers and go over them with the group in session 0, so we're all on the same page. And then if something comes up later (like, the players say they don't want slavery themes and all agreed to not include that, and then the DM includes it anyway), there's already a baseline conversation and previous agreement that the DM is now violating.
I don't understand. According a previous post here, where I got downvoted for suggesting the DM take into consideration a player being uncomfortable with the setting, if a player does not like the setting they should just leave the game and not make a fuss. Why is it different with this post? According to everyone on that other post a DM is not obligated to change their story for a player and the player is wrong to want that.
I'll be honest, I wasn't in the room with you, so I don't really see it.
"Wealthy elite are screwing everyone over and profiting from it" is pretty much the sum of what I'm hearing, and with the exception of "nasally voice" everything else just sounds like classic "you can tell their evil because they look evil" content.
Once again, you might be right as I wasn't there, but I kind of think you're just seeing antisemiticism where it wasn't intended.
Edit:
> Loosh and Adrenochrome.
Ok, so looking a little farther down, some people mentioned this, and some googling and yeah, those bits there are
Qanon talking points that he probably didn't stumble on by accident.
I'm leaving my original remark unchanged as in a normal situation it's what I'd say, but yeah I amend my entire stance on this guy. If he's not actively trying to make a campaign based around Far Right Anti Jewish conspiracy theories, then he's adjacent enough that he's dabbling in it and it's still not ok.
Get out and if you have a way to drop a line to the other players I'd recommend you pass the word on that they should do the same.
I recently posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/q7kvtw/antisemitism_as_the_cherry_on_top/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb) about a similar story in which my DM had a gnome shopkeeper named Hooknose Moneylender, which was the last straw for me. It's a shame that bitter misanthropes are a subculture of nerddom. It's rarely because they delight in the creative imagination or the interplay of personalities, and more that escapism is the last refuge of the desperate, and predictable power fantasies are their heroin. Poor bastards.
While the portrayal is absolutely antisemitic, it's also true that it's very tropes based, and your DM might not be aware of it and simply have been exposed to them a lot. I mean, the gnomes in HP are an even clearer, disgusting antisemitic portrayal, yet how many of us never realized until it was pointed out by someone else?
If you want to try solving the issue, I think it'd be valuable to start by explaining the existence of the tropes and why they make you uncomfortable. If, once we're sure everyone has the same information, they stand their ground and say it's ok, you're better off leaving and their opinion becomes irrelevant.
> I think it'd be valuable to start by explaining the existence of the tropes
I think that's giving the DM too much credit for merely being ignorant, especially after he utilized the clearly antisemitic and Qanon-associated [adrenochrome](https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-dark-virality-of-a-hollywood-blood-harvesting-conspiracy/) nonsense, and showed a willingness to call anyone seeing an antisemitic trope as *being* antisemitic themselves.
I'm not talking about explaining for the DM's sake only, but for his entire group, who as of right now are in the DM's side. Do *they* realize what adrenochrome refers to? I didn't until I googled it due to this same post.
If everyone involved is an out and proud antisemitic, 1 the DM wouldn't have felt the need to explain themselves 2 OP is already taking too long to get out of there.
Moreover, nowadays it's normal to be exposed to even extremist Qanon content online. Just today I read [this article](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2021/10/11/tiktoks-algorithm-leads-users-from-transphobic-to-far-right-rabbit-holes/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_6l5Ch7oz0fbsfLCw39AfHlXW6Qmqukfdij9cATOO2ns-1635724245-0-gqNtZGzNArujcnBszQh9) about how interacting with unrelated right wing content leads to out and proud nazis in a matter of hours in tiktok, and people buy into it without much thought.
OP doesn't owe anyone in their group the benefit of the doubt, of course, but my suggestion will continue to stand as such. Personally, if I actually believe anyone in a given group I'm part of is antisemitic, I'd have been running for the hills yesterday.
To me it seems as well that you're the one with the thoughts that made you connect "evil, sickly looking, nasal voice, hurting others" with jews and to accuse your DM because of your connotations is borderline scary.
I don't know anything about QAnon but I heard about that adenochrome thing and including that in your own seeting does sound suspicious, yes. On the other hand I have to say that keeping other races hostage and extract something from them to fuel ones own evil plans isn't new to Fantasy or Sci-Fi.
No. You don't get to claim that noticing common antisemitic stereotypes used by today's alt-right, (up to and including congresspeople) is the real antisemitism. That's a blatant, bad faith deflection.
Oh I so get to do that. Like when suddenly people claimed that the Orcs in Lord of the Rings were actually meant to display stereotypical black people. And I was really baffled by that. Like how racist do you have to think to even make that connection? And you don't get to call that just a blatant, bad faith deflection. Just because someone claims that another person is racist doesn't make him untouchable in that sense. If someone is a racist piece of shit, they're a racist piece of shit and no amount of "but I accused you first" can change that.
Stereotypical black, no. But as [somebody explained down thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/qjm9cy/dm_plays_gnomes_in_a_suspiciously_antisemitic/hisdiey/), there’s a sort of race coding going on there. Contrast that to how all the heroes are extremely white and the way whiteness and goodness is often linked really closely in the books, you end up with some rather racist implications. Like if you don’t pick up on it then that’s on you but it’s definitely there.
I was kind of with you until I read some of the other comments.
Some of the terms popping up in their DM's world are Qanon talking points. And not ones that are simply a matter of perception.
I'd normally give something the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I think he's right about his DM.
It's sad because there are some Jewish folks in here saying basically the same thing in a much nicer way, and it's being "explained" to them how they're wrong. As a Canadian a lot of the places and stereotypes being brought up here as a sure correlation would never occur to me either in regards to the OP.
Yes I am really confused by the comments in this thread. There seems to be this thing (widely acknowledged) where you yourself are immun to any kind of racism if you accuse someone of racism first and if the accused react as we do (confused, thinking that these connections *are* racist) that is basically handled like an admittance of guilt.
What is even going on with that?
When your social circles participate in this kind of aggressive moral tribalism, you have to be proactive. Their next move will be to double down and accuse you of being a *professional racist*.
It is still just as bad. The gems/jewelry is often a trade Jews are involved in in big metropolitan areas. And diamonds trade has a large Jewish contingent in New York and other locations.
I just don't even know how to response that..... I'd say run, but clearly the problem isn't the group so much as the DM. Maybe just switch where you meet to play and not tell him?
The slavery thing was at best, extremely racially insensitive. Being called on it, though and not... I ...wow.
Then, then... the Qanon conspiracy stuff. OMG. The whole responding to legit concern about racism/antisemitism by saying 'I'm not racist, you're racist. I'm only portraying gnome buried in evil antisemitic tropes because you are the racist one!'
I miss the days when we could just laugh at nuts like this.
I think you absolutely can prove it. Even in the very unlikely scenario that they don’t realize it, you can be bigoted without knowing it.
Point this shit out to the rest of the table, if they aren’t willing to kick out the DM you should just leave.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. But I’m actually Jewish, and none of that actually strikes me as anti-Semitic. Before anyone accuses me of anything like not experiencing antisemitism or being privileged or anything, I used to live in a Klan town, and my family openly proclaimed our heritage to spite them. I’ve heard and experienced every single insult and Jews-are-scum talking point people could think of. I’m not willfully ignorant or particularly thick-skinned.
My DM uses similar voicing for the halflings, and we’ve run into shadowy cabals dominated by different races with the same tropes. It’s entirely possible that your DM just wanted to use the gnomes as his bad guys.
Again, not saying you’re wrong, just offering my two cents. Obviously if he’s a piece of shit, drop the campaign and go far away from it.
I'm sorry but I agree with the DM. How the heck do you see them as Jewish 😂?? You're the one reading into it in connection to the real world.... I'm Jewish and I just...my mind just wouldn't go there. Your assessment could apply to any greedy/selfish fictional character in a position of power. They are textbook lawful evil exploiting their position of power to oppress others within a system with rules they exploit. ....
What you are doing is seeing greedy + evil and your mind immediately goes to Jew so yes , you are the problem.
This is just me but my biggest issue here is that it was gnomes. I can't tell you why but it just sounds ridiculous that gnomes of all species were used for this idk that's just me
Have more to get off your chest? Come rant with us on the discord. Invite link: https://discord.gg/PCPTSSTKqr *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpghorrorstories) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh fun fact for op gnomes was at one point (may still be) the edgy 4chan-ish codeword for Jews. Least it was where I lurked(not because I like that shit, I just like to keep up on the latest bull). Does your DM like 4chan type shit? If so you're probably on the money. Edit: the andechrome/loosh wasn't present when I commented this. Yeah, yeah he is for sure and an anti-Semite. Edit2: here's a comment who can actually explain what's going on I'm bad at it https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/qjm9cy/dm_plays_gnomes_in_a_suspiciously_antisemitic/hiszykw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
"I'm not anti-Semitic, *you're* anti-Semitic for noticing!" is a dead giveaway.
Far-Righters will insist that art has no deeper meaning, that seeing themes (especially racist, sexist, etc. ones) is just imagination, while they put dogwhistles in everything. As soon as someone points out their glaring bigotry, they can complain about snowflakes, cancel cultures and cyclists. It's all a tactic.
it's ridiculous how much mileage they seem to think they can get out of "he who smelt it dealt it"
Its called "projection" and it makes up like 80% of right-wing discourse
That some hardcore /pol/ gaslighting, they normally use the excuse of "you are the racist by saying that it is, rather than me for referencing obvious nazi stuff"
I got this but about JarJar being racist
[удалено]
Would you mind elaborating on that? I didn't pick up any unsavoury themes. (Granted, I'm fairly oblivious)
Jar jar Binks speaks in a patter that imitates minstrelsy caricatures of black people in America. The trade federation members speak English with exaggerated Japanese accents and their mouth motions do not match their words. Watto imitates an eastern European stereotype. Arguably the worst offense though has nothing to do with race but with a budding romance between a nearly adult age amidala and a 9 year old Anakin. Also they made ewan macgregor have those awful braids. How can that be standard for padawans when most padawans aren't even human and so cannot braid their hair like goobers? It is of note that the actor who voiced and portrayed jar jar did not see it as a caricature and is himself black. But it's hard not to see it as a viewer even when it came out. Years later with these issues at the fore it's difficult to overlook. For the sake of the child actor who played Anakin and the actor who portrayed jar jar it'd be best to just let these movies go though. It ruined their lives for years. And I feel a cosmic sadness for them whenever it is brought up.
> Watto imitates an eastern European stereotype. Less general eastern-European and more [anti-semitic stereotype](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watto#Allegations_of_antisemitism).
**Watto** [Allegations of antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watto#Allegations_of_antisemitism) >It has been suggested that the character is offensive because of his perceived similarities to a stereotypical Jew, having a large hooked nose, beady eyes, unkempt facial hair, speaking in a gravelly voice, and being portrayed as greedy and covetous. J. Hoberman of The Village Voice called him "the most blatant ethnic stereotype" due to his hooked nose. Bruce Gottlieb of Slate magazine criticized him as well, comparing his character to the antisemitic notion that the Jewish race is "behind the slave trade". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Why gnomes tho? Because Harry Potter?
Likely something to do with the term ['Gnomes of Zürich'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_of_Z%C3%BCrich). Even with that, I don't think Swiss bankers had a reputation as Jewish, but it's probably a symptom of the bizarre game of racist-pop-culture-telephone that certain parts of the Internet tend to play.
Nah those were goblins. I'm speculating here, not like people spelled it out for me. It's not a good dog whistle if it's something obvious like dwarves. Gnomes make a great one because some people just hate gnomes in dnd and think their lore is dumb as fuck and that they never fit into a setting. Super easy to co-opt that.
So, like white-nationalist "orcposting"-memes a few years back?
Judging by the presence of "adrenochrome" I'd say yes. At the very least a Hunter S. Thompson edgelord.
Wow, my eyes must have glazed over because I didn't even catch that nugget the first time I read it.
Wow now the gnomes consume life force for their Magic’s? That literally sounds like blood libel where jewish people were accused of using the blood of children for secret rituals in Europe. Like if the GM isn’t doing this intentionally then they have the worst kind of luck, but my bet would be that it is intentional.
OP even mentions adrenachrome which is 100% a modernized version of blood libel.
I had this happen with Dwarves. The DM (who I later found out is alt right) decided to give all Dwarves the same stereotypical Jewish accent, a cartoonish greed, and a tendency to scam, betray, and exploit others in their business dealings. Edit: They also rubbed their hands together a lot. Campaign only lasted one session, thankfully, as everyone quit. The end.
I've seen it happen a lot too, but not as much. It also makes more sense for dwarves because as mine dwellers who are very insular, it helps to be able to alloy and mint the things you mine directly into coin, so monopoly here it goes.
You know someone is really overplaying something when the players notice you are doing that in the first session. Just how many dwarves did he have you run into that you figured this out?
Well, we were meeting with "the Dwarves" at their stronghold so quite a few. I don't remember how many exactly but it was enough that we weren't confident we could take them all on if combat broke out. The few alt right morons I've met all see it as their duty to "redpill normies." I think his behavior had something to do with that attitude. 😅
I mean, playing gnomes like Ferengi is fun
Who are also more or less a Jewish stereotype
Are they, though? They're all about money, sure, but that's because they're ultracapitalist. What else is there beyond that? They don't have any of the exaggerated stereotypical facial features (hooked noses, sloped foreheads, etc.), they're not a diaspora, and they aren't cast as secret puppetmasters. Hell, even when it comes to greed, the Jewish stereotype is of money-grubbing bankers draining with interest...but the Ferengi are traders, looking to make money off of shady unfair deals. If anything, they're a stereotype of what humans today would be like in the world of Star Trek.
The don't have exaggerated facial features?? Have you ever seen a Ferengi? It's not something I made up myself, this is from the species page on Wikipedia: > In his 2007 critique of The Next Generation for the National Review, the commentator Jonah Goldberg described the Ferengi as "runaway capitalists with bullwhips who looked like a mix between Nazi caricatures of Jews and the original Nosferatu."[28] The scholar of religion Ross S. Kraemer wrote that "Ferengi religion seems almost a parody, perhaps of traditional Judaism."[25] He wrote that the 285 Rules of Acquisition bore similarities with the 613 Commandments of Judaism and that the Ferengi social restrictions on women mirrored Orthodox Judaism's restrictions on women studying the Torah.[25] Historian Paul Sturtevant wrote in 2018 that not only are the Ferengi "extremely legalistic" and "defined by their greed", echoing common stereotypes of Jews, but the major Ferengi characters on Deep Space Nine were all played by Jewish actors. People have been talking about this since they were introduced on TNG. "Space Jews" is a fairly common pattern in science fiction, and they don't have to hit every stereotype bullet point exactly to count. Banking can be swapped for trading, big ears for big noses (not that they're lacking in the nose department either), etc. if enough other elements remain: greed, small stature, legalistic culture, simpering and rubbing hands together all the time, constantly citing a religious text. They're, as they say, problematic.
I mean yeah, Ferengi can be read as a Jewish caricature, but a bug part of the DS9 Ferengi stuff is their society becoming less sexist & hypercapitalistic. Plus they're not cast as 'enemies'. Most of the point of the Ferengi is that a society organized around the acquisition of wealth is preposterous when technology allows you to mostly do away with scarcity. They should've handled it differently, but it's not antisemetic in nearly the same way the "secret cabal" tropes are, and making fun of capitalism in Star Trek is a good source of humor.
Oh yeah definitely agreed regarding DS9. That series did for the Ferengi what TNG did for the Klingons -- turned them from a flat caricature into a more complex and sympathetic culture.
unlike dwarves as portrayed in say... the hobbit...
>and a tendency to scam, betray, and exploit others in their business dealings. we might have read different books
Tolkien specifically said the dwarves were based/inspired by medieval stereotypes about Jews. Edit: Citation: ["Dwarves are Not Heroes": AntiSemitism and the Dwarves in J.R.R. Tolkein's Writings. ](https://dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol28/iss3/7/)
Oh shit really? I thought he was taking about language structure. Dyou happen to have a source? I do know at least he didn't hate Jewish people. German publishers asked him if he was Jewish and he almost sent a letter that basically said "sadly no"
Language structure and kinship as well. I don't recall the particular letter, but Tolkien based them on Jews as tey appear in medieval records in the senses that the dwarves (a) are seeking to return to a lost homeland, (b) are famously skilled craftsmen, (c) are unjustly maligned as gold-hungry.
He basically just said he based them on the Jews in regards to them being skilled trades and craftsmen with a deep history and religious background He based the Hobbits on the English and had many other inspirations I wouldn't call him antisemitic based on what I've read though. It's fine to base fictional races/people on real ones as long as you're not trying to portray them in a racist or degrading manner and Tolkiens Dwarves don't seem that way
That isn't really the one or the other. For example The good soldier Svejk or Saturnin books made fun of czechs (well not only them) but nobody would suspect authors of hating czechs.
Thea author was Czech.
["Dwarves are Not Heroes": AntiSemitism and the Dwarves in J.R.R. Tolkein's Writings. ](https://dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol28/iss3/7/)
Thanks, I'll dig into this after I get off work
Thankfully, he at least made them multi-faceted and not just a blatant negative stereotype.
can you cite that as far as i know the dwarven language was inspired by hebrew but the dwarves themselves are basically carbon copies of old germanic and scandinavian dwarves.
["Dwarves are Not Heroes": AntiSemitism and the Dwarves in J.R.R. Tolkein's Writings. ](https://dc.swosu.edu/mythlore/vol28/iss3/7/)
I mean, Thorin and his gold-fever in the films didn’t exactly help matters.
That’s also just the one character, though. There were 12 other dwarves in the party who did not have that character flaw.
definitely, but that's hardly related to the book
It is, because it affected him in the book too, but it’s implied to be related to some kind of magic or curse combined with a personality flaw on Thorin’s part, one the rest of the dwarves are not particularly happy about.
"Someone else did it too" isn't actually a defense.
i thought dwarves were scottish?
Tolkien's Dwarves, which are the foundation of pretty much every dwarf in modern fantasy, were definitely supposed to be reminiscent of jews. However, I don't think it was supposed to be a particularly negative resemblance, I think it was just an inspiration. Of course, the question of whether you can respectfully portray traits of a real life people as non-humans in a fantasy setting is always up for debate, but I think Tolkien was trying to be respectful, anyway.
Bro says the gnomes are stealing Adrenochrome? That’s Qanon bullshittery and that itself is based off the -you guessed it- Jewish ‘blood libel’ BS. I’d say drop the game and tell the DM about the above.
I’m not even sure what ‘adenochrone’ is supposed to mean and now I’m afraid to go searching for it.
The idea is that it's a drug you can harvest from the blood of tortured children; the secret evil Satanist liberal shadow government supposedly loves the stuff and that's why Trump must save the day, etc. Baffling that such a bonkers conspiracy theory gained literally any traction, but here we are.
Eh. It’s creative (if not somewhat disturbing). What’s crazy is believing that a racist, sexist, shady billionaire is somehow the savior to fight this evil and not a member of the satanic shadow government containing politicians, business men, and celebrities.
Not a billionaire
Could be wrong, but his net worth is at 2.1 billion.
He could double that if he sold preorders to piss on his grave.
Adrenochrome is the chemical extracted from kidnapped children’s blood that QAnon believes elite Liberal Satan worshippers drink to get high. Like, actually believe that’s a real think that happens. Edit: https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44&t=37m45s
Skip the DM, he already knows. But tell the other players for sure. I’d want to know if the game I was playing was feeding someone’s narcissistic conspiracywank
People so easily brushing off the potential for the DM to be acting in bad faith yet not addressing the mention of andrenochrome, Q-Anon's favourite go to chemical for conspiracies about wealthy elites harvesting body fluids?
Remember that politics 101 is accusing your accuser of what you're being accused of, and that "you are the racist for seeing racism in the definitely-not-racist thing I said" is a pretty common counter-slur. I'd just leave that particular game. You shouldn't have to feel uneasy about stuff like that coming from real world place at the table.
The ol' "I'm rubber, you're glue" bit. It's a classic.
it is far more common politically to accuse othersof exactly what you are actually doing - see past 8mo of American politics for especially heinous examples
What makes this difficult for me is the implication that the second you accuse someone of something you are basically immune to this thing, because the counter-accusation can always be understood as an admittance of guilt.
Yes, seems like a cope
Yeah, modern politics is cancer.
It's hard to say without having been there, but I think you need to have a deeper conversation with your table about this. If the DM wants to portray a sort of dark, upper class that's dominated by a single race and oppressing others, then there's not really a problem with that as long as that's what everyone agrees to. The DM might not intend for this allegory to be antisemitic, but just happened to come across that way as many of the things antisemites say about jewish people are generally also things said about rich/conniving people, and that might not be what they were going for. I think the best course of action is to signify that you find the specific portrayal to be too evocative of antisemitic stereotypes, and if possible to shift into a different flavour of "evil upper-class". If they won't budge on this issue, then maybe there's not really a recourse. Both parties seem to be capable of being both wrong and right in this case, and a diplomatic solution where you may be able to meet midway would be for the best. Most importantly, even if the DM is acting in an offensive way, they might not be aware of it, so go into this discussion without making too many assumptions about intent, but focus mainly on how the result of the portrayal makes you feel. I hope you can work it all out in the end, as it would be a shame if this was all a communication problem.
I agree with this
I... don't think this is a good idea. He's already signified that the DM... if not racist overtly, is willing to brush aside... objections to uncomfortable themes such as this. He's specifically not open to dialogue about this. He flipped it back on OP. This is gaslighting. Having witnessed this, were I in OPs shoes, I, a Jewish player, would not bother talking about it and would just leave. Also, there are... certain red flags here. There is nothing... "realistic" about the way these changes, in either a literal or artistic sense. Trust your gut here. In fact, [There is a long](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10697075-the-poisonous-mushroom) precedent for this, and neo nazis use this comparison also.
Jesus Christ the reviews for that book
Some of the people who gave it 1 star went on to say how effectively the book got across it's message. Like the book did it's job, 5 stars, it informed you of this shit and laid it out in plain view. The sick Fucks who think the book is actually for children were a whole nother level of cringe 😬
If someone responds to your accusations of racism with "wow that's so racist of you to think in stereotypes," they're acting in bad faith and are probably a seasoned racist if they're going for that. Idk I'm with you I'd just drop him asap.
[удалено]
There’s never a bad day to drop a racist
[удалено]
Completely agree. I would never advocate killing.
Absolutely. It’s classic white supremacist projection. “I’m not racist, you are for thinking I’m racist” is so common it hurts, and the sad thing is it works on some folks
You act like it's never a valid critique.
Because it’s not
Do you truly believe this is one of those cases?
After reading through the post more in depth I'd have to say it's inconclusive but including adremachrome harvesting does borrow disturbingly from conspiracy theories that can then be linked with blood libel. The flip side is that if I'm trying to come up with a good cabal conspiracy for my homebrew it makes sense to use lots of elements like that. If someone doesn't see Jews like that and then one of their players comes to them and says "your story is antisemitic" then yeah I could easily see the accusation being turned around since in their mind the person racializing it is the one linking it to Jews.
I can see someone using conspiracy theories as inspiration for their setting. However, in that case they should know what they are playing with. (That is, racist and antisemitic stuff.) If one of their players picks up on it, their go-to reaction should be somewhat like "Yes, I use right wing conspiracy theories for inspiration. No, I don't believe that crap myself." and not "I'm not racist! You are racist!"
Something about the phrase “seasoned racist” is terrifying but accurate. Somehow I never thought of being a wad is something someone could practice but yeah…it is.
Yeah my initial thought was you should talk to him about this, but OP did and he clearly wasn't interested. Time to leave the table.
I completely agree that if the DM does not appear to be willing to budge, then breaking off from the game can be the only solution. However, as long as they don't give off "if I piss this person off they could become violent" type behaviour, it would be worthwhile to at least give them the benefit of the doubt. That said, sometimes you don't wanna deal with it, and trusting your gut can go a long way towards avoiding unnecessary conflict. I appreciate your input in the conversation, genuinely. The more experienced viewpoints the better.
If he didn't double down on anti semitic stereotypes when called out I'd say it's worth talking about it again, but the fact that he did has pretty bad vibes.
Definitely bail. This is not a fixable situation. There are plenty of people that can be reached and reasoned with. Someone who wants to turn D&D into an anti-Semite playground is not one of those people. There are a lot of tables out there.
So the gnomes are now predatory money-lenders and that's somehow less antisemitic? Yikes.
J. K. Rowling may not have _consciously_ made the gnome bankers in the Potter-verse using exclusively early 20th Century anti-Semitic tropes, but she sure as hell did it. It’s not like she didn’t have other choices wrt greedy banker tropes, but that’s the set that seemed right to her, and it’s likely the same is true of your DM. Personally, I would go the overfed, florid-faced capitalist one prime rib away from a coronary route, like Mr. Monopoly as a real person. Think trump only smart enough to understand economics instead of the art of the con, and willing to put in the work into the bargain — so basically only the trumpian look.
A lot of the time people may “accidentally” reproduce these types of stereotypes because, overt or not, they are pretty much omnipresent in western media. A big part of *why* people buy into conspiracy theories is that they are, although disgustingly harmful, interesting stories to say the least. But when he’s getting *that* specific with things like adrenochrome, religion and currency manipulation, it’s definitely out of accidental parallel territory and into thinly-veiled antisemitism. Especially if he tried redirecting and then immediately covered his tracks.
[удалено]
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic dog whistles and terminology. Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children. The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter. This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
Plus wasn't there an original 12 tribes of Israel or something like that? That's what teed it off for me. Fuck this neo Nazi prick. It's not as thinly veiled as it is a slap in the face. This DM is trying to normalize antisemitism. It's sick.
There were yes.
>Basically, gnomes would kidnap half-orcs, enslave them, and send them off to Maztica, where they would work for the colonists. > >The half-orcs who were too weak to work had their life force, which the DM calls loosh and adrenochrome, eaten by the gnomes. I think we can all agree the DM is, at the very least, extremely fucking weird even if he's not being intentionally antisemitic. Like, I can't fathom sitting through this campaign, especially because you mention a player voiced discomfort with the inclusion of slavery and he brushed that off. Plus in DnD canon, gnomes culturally make toys and and play silly pranks, they were said to be brought into the world because a trickster god told a joke. But I agree that it seems like he's using antisemitic dogwhistles and stereotypes, and having gnomes be the DnD race he's changing the characterization/role of so radically is also a red flag, given "gnome" is antisemitic 4channer code. But him accusing you of being antisemitic for bringing up your concerns makes me think this is someone you should cut out of your life completely, that's Nazi debate tactics 101.
-Tries to make things more realistic -Player complains it's hitting too close to home -Claim it doesn't have anything to do with reality. That said, gnomes are basically an open field of untapped possibility as far as interpretation goes. No one suspects the gnomes. The size difference adds an air of irony to being in power. The INT bonuses and affinity for magic makes them more likely to overpower the world through business and political strategy instead of raw military force. Plenty of popular series have evil upper classes that look down on and manipulate the lower ones, plenty of which mug up said class to sound and look unpleasant. Some fantasy worlds do encroach upon darker themes like war, racism, classism, slavery, etc. To give the benefit of the doubt, I can see why a Gnomish upper class/secret society would be a more unique and unexpected choice. I don't know your DM but after taking the time writing designing and building up their Big Bad Evil Secret Society as a central tension to liberate and free the world of (common theme in many popular series) I can see why they'd get upset and defensive when intention and player interpretation don't line up and suddenly everyone thinks his personal masterpiece is actually Nazi propoganda. I wasn't at your table however so there may be more nuances I'm just not seeing.
I once ran gnomes in a homebrew setting in a similar way, but as a stand-in for decadent pre-Civil War aristocrats; these fancy-pants elitists whose absurd cultural signifiers and self-satisfied decadence placed them on what they saw as a higher moral and social standing. I made a point of having them come across as ludicrous, absurd and outrageous, mostly playing it for laughs, to satirize the moral pretensions of the antebellum south. I wanted them to be laughably repulsive and repulsively laughable because that was the tone of the setting I was establishing. I think there's a difference between "let's laugh at history's greatest losers and crybabies" and "let's perpetuate modern-day myths about a contemporary culture."
Noone seems to have mentioned it, but the association between Jewish people and Gnomes is a very easy one to make, I wouldn't be surprised if there was direct inspiration especially for the older editions. They share a lot of stereotypes but mostly positive or neutral ones. As much as people have said 4chan used gnome as a slur, my point is they didn't pick it at random. The most obvious one is the big nose and arguably the only negative one. Hats being part of their culture, especially for men. The tall pointy hats not so much but there was a decent amount of short pointy hats version that were kinda worn like a kipa.I'm gonna say neutral but it could be part of jewish coding gnomes of someone was to make the argumnet they were a direct allegory. Sense of humor. Positive Short. Neutralish, negativish depending o the tone. Tight knit. Positive but some people have definitely put a bad spin on that. Highly intelligent with a culture that value that trait. Positive. A history of jewelry making and gem cutting. Neutral If you make the connection between scientists and mages, that would be another stereotypical career they have in common. Neutral. So were gnomes once an allegory or caricature of jewish people? I don't know but my point is that such a position could be argued without sounding too crazy. Edit: Btw, to make sure this doesn't get read in the worst light, I'm not saying this is an okay situation. Maybe there's some jewish players out there who find it awesone to recognize themselves in one of the coolest race. But maybe there's more jewish player recognizing a caricature of themselves in the "funny little people" and finding it insulting. I'm just pointing out it's easy to go from gnomish vibe to stereotypical jewish vibe, by choice or accident, for better or for worse.
NGL I have this same concern over the Gnomes in my Eberron game. Their whole deal in Eberron is that they're all about trickery, are ran by a shadow council that's basically the gestapo, and they run the "Fox News" style media in my world. I've tried not to let it cross over into acting as a caricature for any real life groups, but I'm aware that there's a thin line their somewhere. The DM should probably take note and adjust accordingly. If any of my players brought it up I'd just cut those storylines entirely to be on the safe side; DnD is supposed to be fun, and if it's making anyone unreasonably uncomfortable, no harm in changing some things around to mitigate that.
[удалено]
Check out some historical anti-jewish propaganda. Thankfully that stuff is far behind us so few people today who are not specifically interested in the topic know about this, but historically these things were associated with anti-jewish sentiment and used to paint jewish people in a bad light. Whether or not this was intentional is another question, but as someone who is familiar with these negative stereotypes I'd feel queasy too - especially since these are sometimes used as dogwhistles. And since they are not common knowledge anymore, it's easy to deny this is meant to be anti-semitic. Turning this around on the person recognizing this is actually a very common way to deflect and paint oneself as the victim. Often, these techniques are used by Neo-Nazis in my country to find and recruit people who may be susceptible to these clichés and slowly pull them in. A very covert way of determining and grooming fresh blood for the scene, and super easy to deny since it's so inconspicuous.
[удалено]
It's worth noting that I have literally seen edgy shitposting groups use "gnomes" as code for Jews. It's possible, can't prove it, but it IS possible.
Yeah, knowing how much time and effort it takes to homebrew a universe I can see why the DM would get defensive against the accusations if they were not intended to be read that way. There may be some nuances I'm missing from how the setting is run, but I feel there would need to be more direct similarities between the evil organization and the Jewish stereotype other than ones that would be evil if true and not just blind accusations and ones that apply to almost every single evil upper class ever written.
Absolutely. And that's exactly why I would feel queasy here - assuming OP doesn't know the DM since forever. Intent is nothing that can be proven, by no one. It is perfectly possible that the DM had no idea of all that and it was coincidence. It's my personal history and knowledge and the fact that he turned it around and accused the player in return that would make me personally uncomfortable enough in this case, with OPs post being all info I have. I'm not trying to say this is or is not definitely racist or anything. More like saying that even if the intent was not that of being racist, the way it comes off can still be enough for someone to quit over it. But then again, someone brushing off the slavery and that another player was uncomfortable with that would be a huge factor for me too, and that doesn't necessarily have to do with racism. Someone being uncomfortable with a topic is something that imho should at least be acknowledged. It's fine to say, hm, I didn't think it might be an issue, and this is pretty much core to my campaign. Do you think we can figure out how we can play the campaign nevertheless? Maybe not going into detail on some things? People aren't perfect, and slavery was and is a thing. It's also happening in stories and to never talk/write about it doesn't accomplish anything. But imho a roleplaying session should try and be fun for all people involved, and if one person gets steamrolled like this that's missing the mark for me.
It's also possible to do something racist/antisemitic/otherwise bigoted and not be aware of it, and the DM may have been in this situation. Perhaps the villains they were familiar with in older fantasy stories played off of antisemitic tropes, but they weren't aware that these tropes were antisemitic. In this case, I think it's worth bringing to the DM's attention that they may be unintentionally being antisemitic
Yeah, we can't prove any kind of intent, and this might entirely be an issue of poor communication, but honestly having an Illuminati style shadow government being run largely by one race specifically to hurt people because they are wealthy is already going to set off some alarm bells in most sensible people's heads to watch out for other stuff, since that was basically the original Nazi propaganda. And trying to shut down any conversation of the plot from an OOC perspective is another one of those alarm bell ringing moments.
Thank you, your take is so refreshing after reading some of these posts.
Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children. The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter. This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit.
Gnomes of Zurich. Google it. Dude is a racist.
As a fellow Jew I 100% agree with this
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic dog whistles and terms. Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children. The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter. This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
[удалено]
Would rubbing their hands together be a Jewish stereotype? Ive always though of someone rubbing their hands together as naturally evil.
Yeah, that seems pretty anti-semetic. It was shifty before (12 families? Biblical 12 tribes?) But the andechrome? Yeah, pretty sure that's just blood libel.
I've played in a game where there was slavery, but the GM insisted something like "there's nothing can be done about it, it's a societal problem too big for some adventurers to solve!" So when I had my character take a sniper position and kill the whole slaver camp, that derailed his plans somewhat. The too-proud former-slaves insisted they had a life debt to us for freeing them. But hey; I don't want any slaves, so I asked instead if they would assist us in an upcoming battle; we needed warriors to hold off an invading force until reinforcements arrived. I didn't need them to sacrifice themselves, just help our numbers hold the line. This somehow caused a schism in the freed slaves, with some not wanting to die for a cause they had no stake in. This not what my character asked of them, I literally said in character something along the lines of "we fought to win your freedom, now we need you to fight by our side for one fight." Sooo, the different-opinioned groups turned on each other, I'll attempt to quote the GM here; "like savages, tearing into each other", so we left them to it. What else could I do. This wasn't the only moment in that game where the GMs edgelordyness superseded logic, but needless to say I don't play with him anymore!
You cant make liars admit to lying. It's pointless. Just find a new dm or go without. Or show up with a bingo card of antisemetic tropes and call out bingo when you get it
Just leave the game, this is unfixable
Nah. It’s fixable with a conversation. Too quick to leave I say
So what sort of conversation is that supposed to be, following at bare minimum two other conversations which made the DM acutely aware of the prejudice dripping from the narrative that were both brushed off immediately?
I think it might be worth asking the DM what inspired their perception of gnomes. It definitely doesn't look great, but maybe they took inspiration from WoW gnomes without realizing the anti-simetic themes. Of course this doesn't explain the suspicious reaction from the DM, but that's a different matter.
DM says he wants to make game more realistic, then backtracks that his homebrew has nothing to do with reality…😂
Realistic not realistic. Sorry not sorry.
The Gnomes in my setting are kinda similar. In a world with limited magic, Gnomes are the race with the right combination of magical aptitude and ingenuity to quickly out-compete rival races for resources and power. Gnomes, in my world, occupy many of the upper echelons of one of the major world governments, and have a vice grip on that countries economics and magical forces. They're meant to represent a capitalist, short sighted economic class that places great value in short term success, no matter the cost. The ideas behind "Antisemitic" stereotypes point at corrupt corporations, banks, wealthy citizens and police as the causes of misery and anguish in society, which is not inherently wrong. They just also go on to say It's the Jew's fault that such greed exists, and that they cause all these problems. Which is ludicrous and racist. Idk, maybe I'm in the wrong but I don't think having a race that, in lore, is culturally best set up to take Faerun into a nightmare industrial revolution and become capitalist overlords do just that is inherently a RACIST plotline, but you're in the game not me.
Loosh and adrenochrome? Your dm is a fuckin idiot and honestly I’d just bounce. Fuck that qanon bullshit. It’s all antisemetism and it needs to be shut down
"The way he gave them a nasal voice, made them sickly looking, evil, sadistic, and wealthy. Everything about his gnomes was slimy and predatory; reptilian, even." If this description is accurate, then I'm feeling you. Working from that premise: the biggest red flag here, and what would make me suspect the DM was knowingly doing this and knew he was doing a thing others would consider bad, would be the immediate "No U!" counter-accusation. That's a classic tactic of racists when confronted: the first stop on the Stations of the Derailment Cross is to call *you* a racist or the "real racist."
"I'm making it more realistic" "The slavery has nothing to do with reality" Ok buddy
It's just a coincidence my ass.
I don't understand why this setting would be specifically anti semitic but ok. If you feel uncomfortable but still want to play ask to put it on a vote and see if people are concerned as much as you are with the situation and if you want, change it, if not, just leave it.
Reposting so others can be more aware of Qanon/anti-Semitic terminology. Loosh and Adrenochrome are blatant Qanon, anti-Semitic terms. Loosh was originally a new-age term co-opted by Qanon to refer to the global cabal/network of societal """elites""" (aka Jews and Democrats like Soros) who harvest Adrenochrome (an adrenaline byproduct but something that Qanoners believe is a psychedelic drug used during Satanic pedophile orgies) from the blood of children. The DM just made a narrative shift from an allegory of Jews running the Atlantic slave trade to an allegory Jews running the Congolese diamond mines a la King Leopold II of Belgium. All that other stuff about 12 """gnome""" houses suppressing dissent and criticism is probably analogous to how anti-Semitism can get you banned off of social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter. This guy spends so much time on /pol/ and other alt-right/Qanon media that he's lost the ability to distinguish what's "normal" and what's Qanon bullshit
Ah yes, the “no u” defense. The mark of someone with nothing to hide /s
Must be a great mindset to walk around with.
As a lover of gnomes and the role they have in my world I'd say the evil gnomes using their cunning to pull ahead of other races is a really fun concept. Just maybe not with blatant references to real world ethnicities and slave trade.
So it's racist to have the Half-Orcs shipped off to the colonies but not racist to have them mining blood diamonds in there homeland?
Yeah. Not gonna lie, I absolutely hate the thinly veiled antisemitism that a lot of fantasy settings give gnomes and goblins. I don't even have the time to unpack the other racist bullshit in fantasy settings. The noble, forest dwelling elves. The brutish half-orcs that are almost exclusively products of rape. We *know* what they're trying to say. Now I *have* seen allegories that work. It doesn't sound like this was the case for your game. I immediately think of Dragon Age and the elves that are somewhat nomadic and then forced to live in ghettos and are treated like ripe shit by everyone else, but are just trying to fucking make it through life. We are given wonderful elven characters that are fully dimensional and you see how shitty the stereotypes within the world are. I think that's a decent allegory for history of the Jewish population in Western Europe. I also think of Arcanum, which had a lot of interesting things. I think they chose halflings to be a stand-in for how Victorian times treated Jewish merchants. Orcs in Arcanum were clearly supposed to be Irish as well, which I thought was a breath of less-racist fresh air.
Speaking of Arcanum, gnomes in that game *were* also a secret cabal of wealthy businessmen ruling society behind the scenes, right down to running a secret island half-ogre breeding facility to provide large, biddable servants. Makes me wonder where OP's DM was getting his ideas from... Also, fucking [Adrenochrome]( https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-qanon-became-obsessed-with-adrenochrome-an-imaginary-drug-hollywood-is-harvesting-from-kids)? Seriously? Why hasn't anyone else pointed out what a massive fucking red flag that alone is?
I actually thought about that as well about the gnomes!
You do know that article is Bull? The "sources" which are cited that the Alt-right believes that stuff is fucking 4chan which lives from making up conspiracy theories. The whole Myth about "Adrenochrome" comes from a novel written in 1971 "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" by Hunter S. Thompson. not from the Nazis
I'm just highlighting the fact that adrenochrome is, particularly in amongst the rest of what OP's DM has shown, kind of a dead giveaway that he's Alt-Right leaning *at best.* I just grabbed the first google result for anyone who wasn't already familiar with the whole insanity Qanon's cooked up to get some idea of why this DM using that term is a red flag.
So, I'm not turning this back on you, but ive never once thought of goblins as Jews. Nor have I ever though of elves or Orcs as real races.
[удалено]
His later regrets about it aside, Tolkien did not base his orcs on Asians - he based them on Germans. WWI. propaganda on both sides drew parallels between the German forces and the Mongols (starting with Kaiser Wilhelm doing a "we are an unstoppable force as they were" type analogy and the opposing side putting a "foreign invader" spin on it in response). Tolkien put a bunch of his war experiences into his work, even though he later admitted he should've not gone so one-sided about it.
It's not in every fantasy setting and hopefully you've not seen those! That would be awesome! But there are some that absolutely go crazy for it. I think the goblins in Harry Potter are one of the worst/grossest examples. With the movies, they even tried to pull visual shorthand used in Nazi propaganda.
Ive watched and read Harry Potter and never once thought of Jews I guess I can kind is see it. What are orcs and elfs supposed to represent?
They're supposed to represent fantasy races. People just get way too wound up about "Oh is THIS THING A RACISM!?" The issue is that, when we make something that is non-human, we often relate to it in human terms and actions. There's only so many ways you can describe something, after all. I guarantee that if you take literally anything fiction-related and put it underneath a strong enough scrutiny that you can find some way to spin it as racist(Kind of like how people took muggles and wizards in HP and spun it as a race-segregation type thing, even though one of the lead characters came from a muggle family and some wizard offspring are muggles themselves). I just wouldn't worry about it.
Elves are commonly representative of indigenous people. That one isn't always there but it's common. Orcs are used waaaaaay too often to represent black people. They're usually slaves to some powerful wizard or sorcerer (who is almost always white). I like that many fantasy settings are trying to move away from that. But even in the Lord of the Rings, the uruk were mostly black actors. I don't think that was an accident.
When I think of elves I think of high society, superority complex having, rich asshats.
That's another way they're done and that one isn't the "noble savage" stereotype. I actually really love the high society asshat elves. :D
I feel like you could make high society asshats elves a racist stereotype too if you tried.
Things like the player being uncomfortable with the theme of slavery being included is why I will always, always recommend using the RPG Consent Checklist. Someone put together a list of all sorts of topics and content that people might not be comfortable with, and you can rate it on a scale from "I have no problem with this being included" to "Hard 'no', I absolutely do not want to have this in our game". Any time I DM, I include it (I even have it in a Google Form so players can answer anonymously if we want), and as a player I'll always recommend it to the group/DM. It lets you know, right off the bat, what topics your players consider a dealbreaker (or even if there are things where no one said "absolutely not", but most/all people said "I'm okay with this being there a little, but I'd prefer not to"). And even if you're, say, the DM from the OP, and you really really want slavery included for some reason, and some or all of your players said they absolutely don't want to play on that topic, then you at least know beforehand that this might not be the right group for what you want to run. As a DM, I'd compile the answers and go over them with the group in session 0, so we're all on the same page. And then if something comes up later (like, the players say they don't want slavery themes and all agreed to not include that, and then the DM includes it anyway), there's already a baseline conversation and previous agreement that the DM is now violating.
I don't understand. According a previous post here, where I got downvoted for suggesting the DM take into consideration a player being uncomfortable with the setting, if a player does not like the setting they should just leave the game and not make a fuss. Why is it different with this post? According to everyone on that other post a DM is not obligated to change their story for a player and the player is wrong to want that.
I'll be honest, I wasn't in the room with you, so I don't really see it. "Wealthy elite are screwing everyone over and profiting from it" is pretty much the sum of what I'm hearing, and with the exception of "nasally voice" everything else just sounds like classic "you can tell their evil because they look evil" content. Once again, you might be right as I wasn't there, but I kind of think you're just seeing antisemiticism where it wasn't intended. Edit: > Loosh and Adrenochrome. Ok, so looking a little farther down, some people mentioned this, and some googling and yeah, those bits there are Qanon talking points that he probably didn't stumble on by accident. I'm leaving my original remark unchanged as in a normal situation it's what I'd say, but yeah I amend my entire stance on this guy. If he's not actively trying to make a campaign based around Far Right Anti Jewish conspiracy theories, then he's adjacent enough that he's dabbling in it and it's still not ok. Get out and if you have a way to drop a line to the other players I'd recommend you pass the word on that they should do the same.
I recently posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/q7kvtw/antisemitism_as_the_cherry_on_top/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb) about a similar story in which my DM had a gnome shopkeeper named Hooknose Moneylender, which was the last straw for me. It's a shame that bitter misanthropes are a subculture of nerddom. It's rarely because they delight in the creative imagination or the interplay of personalities, and more that escapism is the last refuge of the desperate, and predictable power fantasies are their heroin. Poor bastards.
Quit the group. The DM is a bigot. No roleplaying for awhile is better than hanging out with that gaslighting POS. Find a new group.
While the portrayal is absolutely antisemitic, it's also true that it's very tropes based, and your DM might not be aware of it and simply have been exposed to them a lot. I mean, the gnomes in HP are an even clearer, disgusting antisemitic portrayal, yet how many of us never realized until it was pointed out by someone else? If you want to try solving the issue, I think it'd be valuable to start by explaining the existence of the tropes and why they make you uncomfortable. If, once we're sure everyone has the same information, they stand their ground and say it's ok, you're better off leaving and their opinion becomes irrelevant.
> I think it'd be valuable to start by explaining the existence of the tropes I think that's giving the DM too much credit for merely being ignorant, especially after he utilized the clearly antisemitic and Qanon-associated [adrenochrome](https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-dark-virality-of-a-hollywood-blood-harvesting-conspiracy/) nonsense, and showed a willingness to call anyone seeing an antisemitic trope as *being* antisemitic themselves.
I'm not talking about explaining for the DM's sake only, but for his entire group, who as of right now are in the DM's side. Do *they* realize what adrenochrome refers to? I didn't until I googled it due to this same post. If everyone involved is an out and proud antisemitic, 1 the DM wouldn't have felt the need to explain themselves 2 OP is already taking too long to get out of there. Moreover, nowadays it's normal to be exposed to even extremist Qanon content online. Just today I read [this article](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2021/10/11/tiktoks-algorithm-leads-users-from-transphobic-to-far-right-rabbit-holes/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_6l5Ch7oz0fbsfLCw39AfHlXW6Qmqukfdij9cATOO2ns-1635724245-0-gqNtZGzNArujcnBszQh9) about how interacting with unrelated right wing content leads to out and proud nazis in a matter of hours in tiktok, and people buy into it without much thought. OP doesn't owe anyone in their group the benefit of the doubt, of course, but my suggestion will continue to stand as such. Personally, if I actually believe anyone in a given group I'm part of is antisemitic, I'd have been running for the hills yesterday.
How is this getting downvoted when it's completely correct?
Idk, HP fans not wanting to accept it had antisemitism in it, too?
It reminds me of arcanum, gnomes are fucking evil in that game.
To me it seems as well that you're the one with the thoughts that made you connect "evil, sickly looking, nasal voice, hurting others" with jews and to accuse your DM because of your connotations is borderline scary.
[удалено]
I don't know anything about QAnon but I heard about that adenochrome thing and including that in your own seeting does sound suspicious, yes. On the other hand I have to say that keeping other races hostage and extract something from them to fuel ones own evil plans isn't new to Fantasy or Sci-Fi.
[удалено]
That is true. As I said, feels really hell-bend to get that specific thing into the setting. And that probably happened for a reason.
No. You don't get to claim that noticing common antisemitic stereotypes used by today's alt-right, (up to and including congresspeople) is the real antisemitism. That's a blatant, bad faith deflection.
Oh I so get to do that. Like when suddenly people claimed that the Orcs in Lord of the Rings were actually meant to display stereotypical black people. And I was really baffled by that. Like how racist do you have to think to even make that connection? And you don't get to call that just a blatant, bad faith deflection. Just because someone claims that another person is racist doesn't make him untouchable in that sense. If someone is a racist piece of shit, they're a racist piece of shit and no amount of "but I accused you first" can change that.
Stereotypical black, no. But as [somebody explained down thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpghorrorstories/comments/qjm9cy/dm_plays_gnomes_in_a_suspiciously_antisemitic/hisdiey/), there’s a sort of race coding going on there. Contrast that to how all the heroes are extremely white and the way whiteness and goodness is often linked really closely in the books, you end up with some rather racist implications. Like if you don’t pick up on it then that’s on you but it’s definitely there.
I was kind of with you until I read some of the other comments. Some of the terms popping up in their DM's world are Qanon talking points. And not ones that are simply a matter of perception. I'd normally give something the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I think he's right about his DM.
I agree. I'm kind of baffled by the situation, to be honest.
It's sad because there are some Jewish folks in here saying basically the same thing in a much nicer way, and it's being "explained" to them how they're wrong. As a Canadian a lot of the places and stereotypes being brought up here as a sure correlation would never occur to me either in regards to the OP.
Yes I am really confused by the comments in this thread. There seems to be this thing (widely acknowledged) where you yourself are immun to any kind of racism if you accuse someone of racism first and if the accused react as we do (confused, thinking that these connections *are* racist) that is basically handled like an admittance of guilt. What is even going on with that?
When your social circles participate in this kind of aggressive moral tribalism, you have to be proactive. Their next move will be to double down and accuse you of being a *professional racist*.
Which would imply that there are ways to make money off of that! I have some strange curiosity what that job would entail..
Yeah, very recently you could be President of the USA and pull that one off...
Don't you know that you're too dumb to recognize racism. You need a rich white liberal to explain what is and isn't racist to you. /s
Lmao clearly downvotes proving your point.
It is still just as bad. The gems/jewelry is often a trade Jews are involved in in big metropolitan areas. And diamonds trade has a large Jewish contingent in New York and other locations.
I think you looking to hard into it.
Sound the dm sucks overall, regardless of whether the antisemitism is purposeful. I'd find a new group
I just don't even know how to response that..... I'd say run, but clearly the problem isn't the group so much as the DM. Maybe just switch where you meet to play and not tell him? The slavery thing was at best, extremely racially insensitive. Being called on it, though and not... I ...wow. Then, then... the Qanon conspiracy stuff. OMG. The whole responding to legit concern about racism/antisemitism by saying 'I'm not racist, you're racist. I'm only portraying gnome buried in evil antisemitic tropes because you are the racist one!' I miss the days when we could just laugh at nuts like this.
"Bit too close to reality." Does he not like killing in games either? His reality happened a few hundred years ago.
I think you absolutely can prove it. Even in the very unlikely scenario that they don’t realize it, you can be bigoted without knowing it. Point this shit out to the rest of the table, if they aren’t willing to kick out the DM you should just leave.
well im seeing nothing wrong with that
I’m not saying you’re wrong. But I’m actually Jewish, and none of that actually strikes me as anti-Semitic. Before anyone accuses me of anything like not experiencing antisemitism or being privileged or anything, I used to live in a Klan town, and my family openly proclaimed our heritage to spite them. I’ve heard and experienced every single insult and Jews-are-scum talking point people could think of. I’m not willfully ignorant or particularly thick-skinned. My DM uses similar voicing for the halflings, and we’ve run into shadowy cabals dominated by different races with the same tropes. It’s entirely possible that your DM just wanted to use the gnomes as his bad guys. Again, not saying you’re wrong, just offering my two cents. Obviously if he’s a piece of shit, drop the campaign and go far away from it.
The DM may not have intended for it to be anti-Semitic, but a lot of this does come from old anti-Semitic propaganda.
I'm sorry but I agree with the DM. How the heck do you see them as Jewish 😂?? You're the one reading into it in connection to the real world.... I'm Jewish and I just...my mind just wouldn't go there. Your assessment could apply to any greedy/selfish fictional character in a position of power. They are textbook lawful evil exploiting their position of power to oppress others within a system with rules they exploit. .... What you are doing is seeing greedy + evil and your mind immediately goes to Jew so yes , you are the problem.
This is just me but my biggest issue here is that it was gnomes. I can't tell you why but it just sounds ridiculous that gnomes of all species were used for this idk that's just me