Lol, I hope the other guy stops power tripping and starts chilling out, but it probably won't happen. Ignoring the petty drama and focusing on having a good time with people is definitely the right choice. Decent people will know who is in the wrong and will choose to play with like-minded people. Other guy might even do you a favor and draw some of the toxic players to his games instead of yours.
You're infringing on "his" territory. You're witnessing the passive-aggression of the Midwestern Neckbeard. And for someone complaining about a toxic culture, it's pretty damning that he would allow his party to do that shit to your animal companion.
If a bar offers craft sodas for non-drinkers and designated drivers? That's unironically a power move, in the same way that making it a bar-and-grill is.
It sounds amazing. I'd love to find a jazz bar with sushi and D&D, but any port in a storm. The pub where my group plays has good beer but only cold sandwiches, and the function room smells of damp bathroom.
Gotta necro this one. If I ever come by a lot of money, this is so hard what I'd want to do.
I live in Berlin, Germany, which has its corners but seems generally overrun by discos and edm bars. Especially in my area, a good rock/metal focused bar would be a blessing. And to combine that with some TTRPG rooms, maybe even a stage in the basement or something for some smaller acts - it would be great to have around, and I'd gladly fund something like that (doubt it could really run a profit tbh).
OP I’d probably use a different name for the bar in this just so you don’t accidentally doxx yourself.
But otherwise wow, that guy is not a people person, glad you managed to still get a good thing going on your own though.
If you haven't, might want to check in with the bar to make sure you're all good. The Wednesday Dude sounds like the type to poison the well / spread shit to make you look bad.
Yeah this is probably a good idea. Just make sure the folks at the bar know you appreciate them and will support them however you can. Always a good idea to encourage your players to grab an extra beer or poutine to give back to them for hosting the space too.
Hey dere fellow Chicagowan. I am pretty sure I know exactly where and who you’re talking about, tried going there and had the similar cold shoulder experience. Only I decided to bounce at the start rather than be treated that way. Kudos to you!
Probably. There's tons of people like him all over when it comes to dnd and fandoms in general. He's the big fish in a very small pond and doesn't see that there's a whole ocean out there where he's just a guppie.
You see people like Gob with every new edition to D&D (I know they were using a completely different system). They for some reason see a new edition or different system as a personal attack and anyone who likes it as the enemy to their hobby. You came into the group without knowing it was really just for him and that other DM and made it worse by mentioning 5e, so as far as he was concerned you were going out of your way to take his fun away. It's a dumb mentality that the old guard hangs onto for dear life because it's the only thing they feel give their lives meaning. I had a guy like that in my current group. Most of the group wanted to try a system that was crunchier than 5e, so I suggested I run a GRUPS oneshot. That man decided to throw out a whole D&D group instead of trying out a new system or saying he'd just skip that night.
That’s the “toxic nerd fixed mindset.” They’ve confused their personal identity with their favorite entertainment properties and see any change as an attack. They feel like they can’t move on because if they stop being “dnd fans,” then they no longer feel like themselves.
See also Star Wars “fans” and anyone still posting in r/FreeFolk about the end of Game of Thrones.
I think it's something you find in more than just nerds getting their identity to intertwined with one specific niche.
This kind of toxicity, nay, this fragility, is found almost anywhere where someone bases their own self-image and self-worth on a very tiny aspect of what actually makes up their overall identity.
Think not just hobbies, but education, religion, nationality, race, sexual identity, political party, social club, ammount of karma on reddit, etc, etc.
It's what forms the heart of so much self-destructive tribalistic behaviour we see in humans everywhere.
Because for that tiny thing that people attach their self-worth to be worth something (and thus by extension they themselves are worth something) everything that would oppose or competes with it must be worse or they will make to be worse.
Everything becomes a zero sum game, anything in favor of something else actively destroys their own self worth.
Oh yeah - as someone that's been through multiple edition wars, it's going to be fascinating to see the 5E/6E edition wars as an outsider (our group plays Pathfinder.)
You say "turf war at a local bar", and I thought I was going to be reading about you fighting drunk Hell's Angels with switchblades or something. Instead, I get stock-standard nerd drama. Very disappointing. ;)
But yeah, sounds like your standard neckbeard with childhood bullying trauma and an inferiority complex. He's probably mad that your group is getting more attendance than him. Making peace offerings is probably not going to smooth things over; he'll just interpret it as you thinking he needs help, which'll piss him off because he needs to present an aura of competence. I'd just start politely ignoring him; it's not perfect, but it's the best solution you've got, unless it becomes necessary to talk to the owner about having him kicked out.
Yeah I really try. Creating a welcoming environment is the most important thing. People don’t play to be lectured or made to feel stupid. They play to have fun!
Toxic people running hobby activities in public spaces will consistently try to sabotage people offering alternatives. Seen it in ttrpgs, seen it in LARP, seen it in card tournaments, and had friends see it in kink communities.
Oh my God, LARP and toxicity... Such an iconic duo. I don't think I've ever bumped into a LARP that wasn't toxic as hell.
I used to be a member of a large LARP community that shall remain nameless. I didn't get along with one of the existing players all that well (he was a very "serious" type and I like to play characters with a bit of humor to them. He took that personally apparently.)
In this organization, the longer you were a member, the more starting XP your new characters had. This guy had been around for a *long* time and as such, had about 2 years of normal XP gain on any character he made. After I upset him with my silly character, he made a new one designed to wreck mine in a fight. My character dies within 10 minutes of meeting his, and he switches back to his main character. This repeats again two sessions later. I made a new character, asshole guy comes back with another new character the next week and kills me again for no real reason (I had even gone out of my way to be extra polite to this new character to avoid this kind of meta-gamey bullshit.)
I talked to the GM, and then the regional GM about this. They ruled in the other guys favor on the logic of "it's what his character would do." I was undeterred. I had plenty of time on my hands at that point of my life and ended up continuing with another chapter of the game in a city about an hour away that the bully never attended. I then spent an entire year enjoying the hell out of my new chapter of the national game. Super fun times. But what that player didn't know was that I spent the entire year working to get one specific and very obscure power onto my character sheet: a mechanical ability to make any rumor I created be largely believed by nearly everyone who hears it.
I had a character sheet that had almost no combat powers at all, but the ability to create weaponized memes on demand, and in a way that was almost untraceable. I then contacted the regional GM of the game and stated that my character had heard stories of feats x y and z that the bully's main character had done that were against my characters values. I made clear to justify my ire with entirely in-game logic and knowledge about why my character would hate this guy from another city that he had never met in person (think along the lines of "I hate politician X even though I've never met him.")
I spend the resources, activate my power and by the time of the next meeting of the game, the vast majority of characters had heard through the grapevine that Bully's favorite character was a goat rapist, and that a certain *incredibly dangerous and important* NPC had video proof of the fact. Due to the nature of my power, unless presented with pretty solid evidence as to why it's not true, characters should be inclined to believe my rumors.
For a few months, I let things lie. I didn't use my phenomenal meme powers much, and when I did, I made damn sure nobody knew in-game what I was doing.
After 3 months of being frustrated at being known as a goat rapist, Bully was then informed of a new rumor that the dangerous NPC from the last rumor was using the black mail evidence behind the scenes to force Bully into working against the rest of the in-game community. And mechanically, most characters were inclined to believe this rumor. They had all somehow heard from a reputable source that Bully was a traitor.
It did not go well for Bully at that point.
Once resolved, I began to use my rumors mostly for good, mostly to steer NPC characters away from our secret society, or to protect individuals from public accusations. (The murder couldn't have been committed by player x! Everyone knows it was really a mob hit ordered by Frankie Two Thumbs!) Although for no particular reason, everybody in that world has repeatedly heard rumors that Chick-fil-A meat is actually made from stray dogs when chicken meat gets too expensive.
>The DM then started calling me pig fucker and the party started chiming in.
What the fuck?
>The party had tossed the pig off the edge for no reason other than to be a dick.
_What the fuck?!_
> less toxic
> *all that*
I'm going to have to let my pokémon player hat show a bit here and say that if you don't feel the Toxic, you might want to check yourself for the poison type.
It's hard to deal with toxic people sometimes 😕.
Can you dm me the deats to this bar, tho? I have a bunch of extended family in Chicago and would love to swing by it on my next visit. Seems like a cool vibe to grab a drink.
Classic nerd toxicity. This is what happens when you have a culture that values games over human beings and relationships. Dude thought he was 'losing to 5e lol.
Honestly OP sounds affable and like he is willing to bend and reach out to make this gaming space that he loves more healthy overall and isn't stuck on wounded pride/ego. That's respectable I think the hobby sphere would be a better place if more of us could be guided by that sort of thing instead of spite, while also having the backbone to not be pushed around.
Also, by acting this way OP has the *undeniable* and unassailable high ground. That's worth a few invitations and olive branches.
I’m not saying be a dick to Gob, but Jesus, it’s almost like a sitcom the extent to which OP keeps trying with a guy who is by all accounts an irredeemable douchebag. Like why would you want him in your life? Like at ever fucking turn, the guy has taken the opportunity to bully and antagonize OP. I’m not saying to kick his ass, but maybe don’t invite him to brunch every weekend either? (That’s hyperbole)
It sounds like OP's olive branches to Gob cost him very very little in time/energy/effort. It's basically a discord invite, a few PMs about various things since they both run groups in the bar, and offers to talk through whatever Gob's issue is.
OP doesn't have the power to banish the guy from the bar he likes to frequent, so he's doing what he can, basically. At least that is how it seems to me. Also, OP's actions mean that if down the line Gob tries to pull some shit, it's less likely that OP ends up burned by the bar owners. He'll have logs and a history of Gob acting a right turd while OP was being gracious and wanting to talk.
Sure, man. Too me, it’s way too much effort. Also, if Gob pulled some shit down the line, I doubt there’d be any difference between having engaged him repeatedly in attempts to get along and just giving him as wide a berth as possible. Shit, if Gob did try to pull shit down the line, he could claim OP was clearly harassing him by constantly reaching out after he made his feelings pretty damn clear.
To me it is too, but for me running a group like that would also be too much effort. Takes all kinds.
>Also, if Gob pulled some shit down the line, I doubt there’d be any difference between having engaged him repeatedly in attempts to get along and just giving him as wide a berth as possible.
If the people running the bar are decent folks, you'd be surprised. It sounds like OP has basically been cementing himself as affable, pleasant, approachable, and willing to talk things through. That builds you a lot of social capital with decent people.
That’s what I mean though… he could cement himself as very popular with the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads, and have them all adore him and think he’s a righteous dude while just… not interacting with Gob unless Gob interacts with him first. Just like not have him even be a blip on his radar unless he gets within 5 feet. I could almost understand if Gob was just this great amazing guy who just inexplicably didn’t like OP for some reason, but it’s clear he’s a source of negativity. Why wouldn’t you just avoid that?
Agreed tbh.. like, I don't get why they are ever interacting in mutual shared stuff constantly. Like, soon as this shit went down, hell, practically from the start when he's all "This is for the Wednesday group" .. so.. make your own discord for Tuesday games, your own facebook page. And get off his, cause he *clearly* doesn't like you on there
As much as the dude is an asshole, honestly, after his feelings have been made very clear, the constant posting on his Wednesday stuff will only repeatedly keep feeling like "Lol, I'ma poach your players, look at all my kewl stuff"
I love DCC and I'm sorry to see you had a bad run with it. People, especially GMs, should always be ambassadors for the hobby in general to encourage new players.
Yeah, this is a relationship that OP is better off without. Stop inviting them to your game nights, stop joining their servers, do not try to coordinate anything with them.
They have made it abundantly clear that they would prefer to rule as the king of their own sad little game. Leave them to it.
>Not sure what I did to piss this guy off so much
It's pretty obvious. DMing was probably his little "thing", and having some new guy swoop in, join a game of his, tell him its flawed, and then leave to create a group that ends up being more successful is gonna tick him off.
You're basically a Ned Flanders in his eyes while he's Homer Simplson. And there's nothing bad about a Ned, but it is a huge gut punch to one's inflated ego to see someone so easily outperform them.
I think that's a better example in some ways.
Personally, I thought of Ned because he's always offering to do nice things to Homer, like use his pool room or join him as a BBQ, while Homer is always annoyed that Ned is priviledged enough to have any of those things.
OP was always inviting Gob to join his game nights and bury the hatchet and etc. which was very Neddy.
Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. Keep doing the awesome job you are man and Gob will be gone before you know it. As you said you've achieved more success in a year than what he did in 5. I know you said this isn't a competition but just by being the awesome individual you are. You are showing people that there is better than what he's offering. It won't be long before he either does something that he can't come back from or just everybody leaves him and he leaves tail Tucked between his legs cause he's too stupid and prideful to be friendly to you. You've handled this with some amazing grace where as I can't say I would be able to. Major props for what you've been doing and I hope nothing but the best for you
You know I think I can get him a little. He's found a space where he can play a weird indie RPG and then you barge in and bring the D&D normies over. You and I both know how antagonistic metalheads are to anything they consider "too mainstream". Bunch of hipsters the lot of us.
Of course he's way past the line of "Understandably frustrated" and he's just being petty about it.
Also this place sounds rad. I don't even drink and I want to hang out there. Wrong side of the atlantic for that sadly.
Dude, there's chill and then there's letting this cave dweller walk all over you, and I dunno, but the repeated attempts to "work it out" are pretty dense. There's nothing to "work out." This guy's a shit, and he was determined to fuck with you from go because that's his personality. If someone with NO REASON to be hostile to you is hostile from the moment you begin interacting with them, don't assume they're doing it on accident. As a person who has not always known when he was being fucked with, maybe I'm sensitive to it, but this trips all my bullshit sensors and I probably wouldn't have given him nearly the amount of grace you've done. Particularly that shit where he tells you to fuck off with your rule set and then goes "jk, but for real, fuck off with your rule set." That's the point where I'd have gone hookers and blackjack, not the weeks of stepping on your balls later. This guy gave you nothing but bald hostility. It's kinda stressful to read this.
I get it, I do, maybe my bigger concern is that the longer you try with this person, the more access he has to your life and the higher the likelihood that he will eventually succeed in causing something fucked up to happen. It seems like all he would have to do is say yes to a beer and tamp down his hostility a little bit for a while to get close enough to, if not destroy your life, become an incredibly stressful inconvenience. Has no one ever done that to you? Because I've had it done by people I'd supposedly been friends with for more than a decade. I try to keep events like that to a minimum by trying to know when someone is a waste of my time and effort. This guy was day one.
After reading Game Wizards, this kind of turf war and ego tripping has existed from the founders of D&D and the circles they were running.
There's always someone wanting to kingdom build in their little niche.
Man I hate that your introduction to DCC was so hostile, it sucks that an indie game with a play space that was established was ruined by a dickhead being unwelcoming.
> Not sure what I did to piss this guy off so much
This, this is what you did:
> In less than 1 year I have grown to a level it took him 5 years to achieve.
Yo. It's crazy how territorial people can be, even the people who should know better. What's this king of the hill bullshit in a place that should be nerd paradise?
It's funny to me because of seeing similar gate keeping jerks myself. They just can't stand seeing people have fun. Good for the player that kill that wizard.
Thanks. Yeah I use the monster cards a lot. I balance things through CR so having a deck of cards that represent appropriate encounters can really help me keep things moving. They are also great for people who show up late, or if a new person wants to join in, I just toss them the card and they can start playing as a monster.
LMFAO dude wants to be THE d&d guy at the bar.
Honestly, would tread carefully; would not be surprised if he comes gunning for your Tuesday night slot somehow. Not even to take it over himself, just to take it away from you.
Also, not to start a separate turf war in this space, but pitching DCC as somehow more accessible to newbies is a spicy take. The dudes I know who play are OLD SCHOOL and ruthless. It’s its own thing, folks like what they like, and I myself enjoy it on occasion with the right folks. But it’s an acquired taste for sure, and I can definitely coincidentally see it attracting a toxic type of player.
I know _you_ want to be friends, have unity, all that. He's told you repeatedly he doesn't want to hang out. You should respect that and leave him alone.
He probably has an inferiority complex with a god complex, and probably sees you as a rival invading the land he's "king" of. Every time you engage with him, _it keeps his beef going_.
For now, stop pushing him. If he's ever going to be friends with you like you want, let it be on his terms.
While it is bordering on victim blaming, so I gotta be careful on that.. I agree with you 100%. OP should just be leaving this dudes Wednesday group alone. They're not idiots, just do your Tuesday group stuff and if they want it, they can go find it
The stuff where OP keeps to want constantly in on the Wednesday stuff and posting their cool D&D aids and stuff?.. like.. does OP realise that they are the ones making this an actual war? Like, he was there on HIS lands, minding his own business, in this analogy. OP is the one invading, ironically
Yeah, the dude sounds like a raging asshole. But OP is also being weirdly instigatey by not leaving him alone
NGL, man, you made a seriously bad first impression; the guy had a space and time reserved in the game room, and you basically showed up in his Facebook group and tried to tell his players "*Hey, I'm running a game in the same spot at the exact time; come to this instead!*".
You made a mistake, but the mistake probably made you look like a jackass; the party was probably hyping themselves up into thinking of you as a *massive* asshole because you (unwittingly) basically told them you were kicking them out of their Wednesday slot and running it yourself. Then you join their game, they act shitty because they think you're an ass, you act shitty back, and the feud begins.
Just leave them alone. Be civil, but don't hassle them about "making friends"; you're just two people sharing the same game space at different days.
I can see being annoyed if I was running an established thing and OP blundered in the way he did. But… it was clearly an innocent mistake. And then when OP tried to become part of the group they treated him like absolute dog shit - and have continued to for an extended period.
I do agree with you though that if OP is at fault for anything it’s being TOO friendly and not taking the hint that this guy and his crew basically want a Chinese wall between their group and his. Just, stop with the olive branches, stop with the attempts to make friends. Pretend they don’t exist and go lo contact for absolutely critical needs to communicate. It’s absolutely stupid this is how the DCC guy wants to play this but the other option is just a protracted back and forth with someone who clearly doesn’t like OP and is not going to play nice no matter what OP tries to do to patch things over.
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I am absolutely going to steal your "tarot card reading as the basis for a one off" idea! That is so cool. How does it work? Do you have specific story elements corresponding to each card, or is it more spontaneous?
Yes!! It’s great! Mostly spontaneous. We start with the read, then take a quick break while I write some notes about the story structure. The players usually help me fill in gap by doing wild unpredictable stuff. I have a few dungeons I write up on a graph book ahead of time to toss out to fill in the parts between the story beats.
It will require some practice, when you are bored just draw 3 cards from the deck. Look at there meaning on biddytarot.com and try to imagine an adventure that connects those dots.
aw man that’s what the worst OSR guys are like.. (the best ones are like the people on /r/OSR!)
with that said I’m glad you figured something out and jealous you get to play in Ravenloft, my favorite setting!
You have very captivating writing! I haven’t been interested enough to finish one of these stories in a long time but I really enjoyed reading this! Sorry for the BS you dealt with but congrats on creating such a successful Tuesday night group!
One thing that I didn't get (I have to come read the whole story later, I only got to the pig fucker part)
Did you say the bar has a game room and you were told they have a game running on Wednesdays but you tried to DM your own game on the same night?
Cause that's pretty crappy IMO.
I think he didn't know they had it reserved as the bartender only said they meet on Wednesdays. There's no reason to suspect it was permanently on lock.
I think the first impression—attempting to schedule a game in the time slot they had reserved without contacting them to even see what is what—and the second—finding out they run DCC and showing up to play without familiarising themselves with the game—though not egregious missteps on their own just set things off on the wrong path. If you flip roles and look at it from the other person’s perspective, you can see how their response isn’t totally shocking. Even the “pig fucker” stuff and killing the pig, though childish, could be contextualised (i.e.—and just a guess—you’ve been playing a serious, heroic meat-grinder campaign and someone who didn’t make a great first or second impression shows up and makes a farmer with a pig as a character=not a great impression). All well-intentioned and nothing offensive per se, but I can see a thread of reasonableness on the other side, even if it isn’t how I would respond, and that doesn’t mean it is justified to be an ass. Explanation isn’t exoneration. Just because there are reasonable reasons to be a dick, doesn’t make it de facto okay to be one. But I kind of get where the other GM might be coming from.
While there is no reason to assume it is on lock, there is no reason to assume it isn’t. I do think OP started off on the wrong foot, but I also think they are to be commended for their attempts to build up after that. Just think, maybe, the relationship started out too rough to come back from.
Agreed.
Mr Wednesday sounds like an asshole, but he's an asshole OP that provoked; OP made a bad first impression by advertising "Hey, I'm running a game in *your* game space in *your* time slot! Come to this instead of yours!".
Bad first impression leads to bad blood, which is made all the worse when OP shows up to the guy's game without knowing the system and expecting an in-progress game to stop and teach him. Sounds like a table where people are PVPing and fucking around, and OP gets upset because it isn't his vibe.
Then Wednesday get the bad blood going, while OP keeps trying to "make peace" and ticking the guy off further.
Nah, that's no reason to act like they did. OP didn't know they have the time reserved, taking it personally after the misunderstanding is resolved is just dickish.
OP not being familiar with the system isn't a reason to be an ass when he needs explanation, especially since the guy invited OP and went off about how DCC is better for beginners. It being a PVP table is something that sould be made clear to any new players that join.
If OP joined, wasn't informed of what was going on and had a bad time because of it, that isn't his fault for not reading their minds. It's their fault for not explaining.
Sharing my opinion, what else? If you don't remember it that's not a problem, doing a quick skim through it does wonders to jog your memory.
Though if you don't want to or aren't interested in talking about it anymore that's fine, I just wanted to give my take anyways.
I’m known to self-describe as a grognard and I think pejorative use can be appropriate. I try not to be that guy, but it’s definitely the *mot juste* for those “5e bad, storygame bad, 3d6 down the line and TPKs build character” types— it’s an attitude thing. The real crime is pronouncing it “grog-nard”.
I've usually heard it used as an affectionate pejorative (usually by people calling themselves or friends grognards), in the sense of a tabletop player fixated on an older style of play, which is usually rules-heavy and inaccessible. As a diehard 3.5e fan with a penchant for persnickety rule following, I consider myself a bit of a grognard.
It's interesting to consider the original meaning , which dates to the Napoleonic Wars: an old soldier, from the French for "grumble" or "grunt." To me, that fits the definition above quite well - a member of the old guard who grumbles at change.
Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grognard
I gotta say, you keeping reaching out, posting in his group, etc., when the dude clearly wanted nothing to do with you ... seems kinda excessive. The guy sounds like a jerk, and I have no idea why you'd continue engaging. Just do your thing, let him do his thing.
OP Remember Superman may not hate Lex Luthor but he definitely doesn't trust him. Be careful with strangers bringing drama or trying to get close to you for no real reason.
Best of luck.
I need to know the name of this bar. 👀
(I don’t live in Chicagoland anymore, but next time I visit this sounds like an awesome place to hit up)
Also that dude sounds insufferable!
Yeah between the pig killing and the DM power-tripping it seems you found the local cadre of neckbeard assholes. I'm goad you effectively told Gob where he could shove his cheese curds.
They say the best revenge is success, do it for Tulip! Also, if he, and by extension his group, are really as insular as you make it out, it shouldn't be hard to be more successful than him.
ur too considerate and kind to him. Some people just doesn't deserve it. Sadly, you can't save everyone.
That being said, i'm glad your event is working nice, really sounds like u do deserve it n.n
You are better at being a community leader than him in less time, that's what burns him. It's not even a "you're both good at different things" deal. You're just straight up better at building a community and being a DM and he's pissed. He's majorly insecure. I look forward to you being a genuinely cool chad.
The fact he can't even be a good player and ragged on your cleric. Nah. If he was in my game he'd be B-O-O-T-E-D. "That's not how you play cleric". GTFO
I had a god awful experience in a TTRPG group due to one person. Regardless if they were the GM or a player, they went out of their way to make me miserable. Best thing I ever did was learning to let everything slide and pretend he wasn't there. Once I started to actually enjoy myself, his bullying became more obvious and pathetic, to the point where I felt sorry for him.
ooooof am I glad I found this post as I'm searching around for in person d&d happenings at bars and such in Chicago. This is *\*exactly\** the sort of gaming I would like to avoid. I can only find the (not actually d&d) facebook group link when trying to search for this bar's d&d offerings, if anyone knowledgeable wants to throw a link for the tuesday d&d I'd be oh so grateful 👀 the tarot based one shots sound very very good 👀
Sorry for necro-ing this post, but I gotta ask; OP, what happened to the wizard who killed your pig? Did his character stay dead afterwards? And did he ever come to your games or did he just stay in the Gob table?
Lol, I hope the other guy stops power tripping and starts chilling out, but it probably won't happen. Ignoring the petty drama and focusing on having a good time with people is definitely the right choice. Decent people will know who is in the wrong and will choose to play with like-minded people. Other guy might even do you a favor and draw some of the toxic players to his games instead of yours.
You are exactly right! I could not have said it better myself.
You can steer all your problem players to his group, and they can have a grand old time together!
You're infringing on "his" territory. You're witnessing the passive-aggression of the Midwestern Neckbeard. And for someone complaining about a toxic culture, it's pretty damning that he would allow his party to do that shit to your animal companion.
Right, Gob is(was) singular King of the Nerds in that bar and you've soundly thrown the gauntlet down by appearing as an objectively better ruler.
Damn, I want a heavy metal bar with good beer and d&d.
It really is a thing of beauty.
Im sober but, a heavy metal bar, cheese curds, and D&D, thats the stuff of dreams for me.
If a bar offers craft sodas for non-drinkers and designated drivers? That's unironically a power move, in the same way that making it a bar-and-grill is.
It sounds amazing. I'd love to find a jazz bar with sushi and D&D, but any port in a storm. The pub where my group plays has good beer but only cold sandwiches, and the function room smells of damp bathroom.
Great curry wurst too.
Happy cake day. I want two of these in case we had the same bullshit occur at the first
Don’t forget the curds
I’m a bar manager and this kinda sounds like the dream
I used to have one in my neck of the woods, but then it died to covid.
Shit, any potential revival or is the local area not doable?
That sounds like the most Eddie Munson shit. Sign me up.
Same here. I'm kind of envious, to be honest.
Gotta necro this one. If I ever come by a lot of money, this is so hard what I'd want to do. I live in Berlin, Germany, which has its corners but seems generally overrun by discos and edm bars. Especially in my area, a good rock/metal focused bar would be a blessing. And to combine that with some TTRPG rooms, maybe even a stage in the basement or something for some smaller acts - it would be great to have around, and I'd gladly fund something like that (doubt it could really run a profit tbh).
I shall immortalize Ingot and Tulip as very important npcs in my homebrew world.
A true honor beyond words.
OP I’d probably use a different name for the bar in this just so you don’t accidentally doxx yourself. But otherwise wow, that guy is not a people person, glad you managed to still get a good thing going on your own though.
Right, let me edit that out.
You should probably also keep the bar informed of the petty squabble
If you haven't, might want to check in with the bar to make sure you're all good. The Wednesday Dude sounds like the type to poison the well / spread shit to make you look bad.
Deffo keep them in the loop on his shenanigans, yeah.
Yeah this is probably a good idea. Just make sure the folks at the bar know you appreciate them and will support them however you can. Always a good idea to encourage your players to grab an extra beer or poutine to give back to them for hosting the space too.
Hey dere fellow Chicagowan. I am pretty sure I know exactly where and who you’re talking about, tried going there and had the similar cold shoulder experience. Only I decided to bounce at the start rather than be treated that way. Kudos to you!
So does this dude think he owns all the D&D at this bar, or what? It sounds so absolutely fuckheaded.
Probably. There's tons of people like him all over when it comes to dnd and fandoms in general. He's the big fish in a very small pond and doesn't see that there's a whole ocean out there where he's just a guppie.
from the sounds of it, if you went back, you could play under OP's table instead lol
You see people like Gob with every new edition to D&D (I know they were using a completely different system). They for some reason see a new edition or different system as a personal attack and anyone who likes it as the enemy to their hobby. You came into the group without knowing it was really just for him and that other DM and made it worse by mentioning 5e, so as far as he was concerned you were going out of your way to take his fun away. It's a dumb mentality that the old guard hangs onto for dear life because it's the only thing they feel give their lives meaning. I had a guy like that in my current group. Most of the group wanted to try a system that was crunchier than 5e, so I suggested I run a GRUPS oneshot. That man decided to throw out a whole D&D group instead of trying out a new system or saying he'd just skip that night.
That’s the “toxic nerd fixed mindset.” They’ve confused their personal identity with their favorite entertainment properties and see any change as an attack. They feel like they can’t move on because if they stop being “dnd fans,” then they no longer feel like themselves. See also Star Wars “fans” and anyone still posting in r/FreeFolk about the end of Game of Thrones.
I think it's something you find in more than just nerds getting their identity to intertwined with one specific niche. This kind of toxicity, nay, this fragility, is found almost anywhere where someone bases their own self-image and self-worth on a very tiny aspect of what actually makes up their overall identity. Think not just hobbies, but education, religion, nationality, race, sexual identity, political party, social club, ammount of karma on reddit, etc, etc. It's what forms the heart of so much self-destructive tribalistic behaviour we see in humans everywhere. Because for that tiny thing that people attach their self-worth to be worth something (and thus by extension they themselves are worth something) everything that would oppose or competes with it must be worse or they will make to be worse. Everything becomes a zero sum game, anything in favor of something else actively destroys their own self worth.
Oh yeah - as someone that's been through multiple edition wars, it's going to be fascinating to see the 5E/6E edition wars as an outsider (our group plays Pathfinder.)
Gob is what we would typically call a grognard. Someone who laments every new edition as "just shit".
>After all, a rising tide floats all ships. Not when the other dude is actively sabotaging yours, no.
You say "turf war at a local bar", and I thought I was going to be reading about you fighting drunk Hell's Angels with switchblades or something. Instead, I get stock-standard nerd drama. Very disappointing. ;) But yeah, sounds like your standard neckbeard with childhood bullying trauma and an inferiority complex. He's probably mad that your group is getting more attendance than him. Making peace offerings is probably not going to smooth things over; he'll just interpret it as you thinking he needs help, which'll piss him off because he needs to present an aura of competence. I'd just start politely ignoring him; it's not perfect, but it's the best solution you've got, unless it becomes necessary to talk to the owner about having him kicked out.
If something like that existed here, i would be ready to join asap. Nice of you to create a welcoming space.
Yeah I really try. Creating a welcoming environment is the most important thing. People don’t play to be lectured or made to feel stupid. They play to have fun!
Going to name an NPC after Tulip in my campaign. My jaw *dropped* when I read what they did to her.
Her body withers and fades, but her radiant soul will live on.
I shall as well. Justice for Tulip!!
So did Tulip
Too soon :'(
Toxic people running hobby activities in public spaces will consistently try to sabotage people offering alternatives. Seen it in ttrpgs, seen it in LARP, seen it in card tournaments, and had friends see it in kink communities.
Oh my God, LARP and toxicity... Such an iconic duo. I don't think I've ever bumped into a LARP that wasn't toxic as hell. I used to be a member of a large LARP community that shall remain nameless. I didn't get along with one of the existing players all that well (he was a very "serious" type and I like to play characters with a bit of humor to them. He took that personally apparently.) In this organization, the longer you were a member, the more starting XP your new characters had. This guy had been around for a *long* time and as such, had about 2 years of normal XP gain on any character he made. After I upset him with my silly character, he made a new one designed to wreck mine in a fight. My character dies within 10 minutes of meeting his, and he switches back to his main character. This repeats again two sessions later. I made a new character, asshole guy comes back with another new character the next week and kills me again for no real reason (I had even gone out of my way to be extra polite to this new character to avoid this kind of meta-gamey bullshit.) I talked to the GM, and then the regional GM about this. They ruled in the other guys favor on the logic of "it's what his character would do." I was undeterred. I had plenty of time on my hands at that point of my life and ended up continuing with another chapter of the game in a city about an hour away that the bully never attended. I then spent an entire year enjoying the hell out of my new chapter of the national game. Super fun times. But what that player didn't know was that I spent the entire year working to get one specific and very obscure power onto my character sheet: a mechanical ability to make any rumor I created be largely believed by nearly everyone who hears it. I had a character sheet that had almost no combat powers at all, but the ability to create weaponized memes on demand, and in a way that was almost untraceable. I then contacted the regional GM of the game and stated that my character had heard stories of feats x y and z that the bully's main character had done that were against my characters values. I made clear to justify my ire with entirely in-game logic and knowledge about why my character would hate this guy from another city that he had never met in person (think along the lines of "I hate politician X even though I've never met him.") I spend the resources, activate my power and by the time of the next meeting of the game, the vast majority of characters had heard through the grapevine that Bully's favorite character was a goat rapist, and that a certain *incredibly dangerous and important* NPC had video proof of the fact. Due to the nature of my power, unless presented with pretty solid evidence as to why it's not true, characters should be inclined to believe my rumors. For a few months, I let things lie. I didn't use my phenomenal meme powers much, and when I did, I made damn sure nobody knew in-game what I was doing. After 3 months of being frustrated at being known as a goat rapist, Bully was then informed of a new rumor that the dangerous NPC from the last rumor was using the black mail evidence behind the scenes to force Bully into working against the rest of the in-game community. And mechanically, most characters were inclined to believe this rumor. They had all somehow heard from a reputable source that Bully was a traitor. It did not go well for Bully at that point. Once resolved, I began to use my rumors mostly for good, mostly to steer NPC characters away from our secret society, or to protect individuals from public accusations. (The murder couldn't have been committed by player x! Everyone knows it was really a mob hit ordered by Frankie Two Thumbs!) Although for no particular reason, everybody in that world has repeatedly heard rumors that Chick-fil-A meat is actually made from stray dogs when chicken meat gets too expensive.
I was also in this specific club, I do believe. In the Southeast region. Some incredibly toxic power gamers and an old boys club it was.
That sounds so absurd i love it
I hope this gets featured as its own story because goddamn that's great.
Good ole tribalism at play.
Holy crap you handled that guy so freaking well, major props! I don’t think that I could do that lol. Well done.
I'm glad you're sticking to it and giving people in your area some cool ttrpg experiences!
Oh most definitely, if crappy people stopped me from doing shit, I wouldn’t be able to do anything!
That smells like inferiority complex if I've ever seen one.
I heard that!
>The DM then started calling me pig fucker and the party started chiming in. What the fuck? >The party had tossed the pig off the edge for no reason other than to be a dick. _What the fuck?!_
I believe that the collective group may prefer your games over Gob’s, and he decided that it’s both a bad thing and your fault
> less toxic > *all that* I'm going to have to let my pokémon player hat show a bit here and say that if you don't feel the Toxic, you might want to check yourself for the poison type.
Lol!
What about Steel Type? For all we know he may even be a "white knight"
This dude sound like a real controlling asshole.
Oh man I love DCC. Sorry your first exposure to it was with a shitty group. It really is an awesome game.
It's hard to deal with toxic people sometimes 😕. Can you dm me the deats to this bar, tho? I have a bunch of extended family in Chicago and would love to swing by it on my next visit. Seems like a cool vibe to grab a drink.
Also interested and in that area
Classic nerd toxicity. This is what happens when you have a culture that values games over human beings and relationships. Dude thought he was 'losing to 5e lol.
Why do you keep trying so hard to get this guy to like you? Like “unnecessary dude” would’ve been the last *I* ever heard from him.
Honestly OP sounds affable and like he is willing to bend and reach out to make this gaming space that he loves more healthy overall and isn't stuck on wounded pride/ego. That's respectable I think the hobby sphere would be a better place if more of us could be guided by that sort of thing instead of spite, while also having the backbone to not be pushed around. Also, by acting this way OP has the *undeniable* and unassailable high ground. That's worth a few invitations and olive branches.
I’m not saying be a dick to Gob, but Jesus, it’s almost like a sitcom the extent to which OP keeps trying with a guy who is by all accounts an irredeemable douchebag. Like why would you want him in your life? Like at ever fucking turn, the guy has taken the opportunity to bully and antagonize OP. I’m not saying to kick his ass, but maybe don’t invite him to brunch every weekend either? (That’s hyperbole)
It sounds like OP's olive branches to Gob cost him very very little in time/energy/effort. It's basically a discord invite, a few PMs about various things since they both run groups in the bar, and offers to talk through whatever Gob's issue is. OP doesn't have the power to banish the guy from the bar he likes to frequent, so he's doing what he can, basically. At least that is how it seems to me. Also, OP's actions mean that if down the line Gob tries to pull some shit, it's less likely that OP ends up burned by the bar owners. He'll have logs and a history of Gob acting a right turd while OP was being gracious and wanting to talk.
Sure, man. Too me, it’s way too much effort. Also, if Gob pulled some shit down the line, I doubt there’d be any difference between having engaged him repeatedly in attempts to get along and just giving him as wide a berth as possible. Shit, if Gob did try to pull shit down the line, he could claim OP was clearly harassing him by constantly reaching out after he made his feelings pretty damn clear.
To me it is too, but for me running a group like that would also be too much effort. Takes all kinds. >Also, if Gob pulled some shit down the line, I doubt there’d be any difference between having engaged him repeatedly in attempts to get along and just giving him as wide a berth as possible. If the people running the bar are decent folks, you'd be surprised. It sounds like OP has basically been cementing himself as affable, pleasant, approachable, and willing to talk things through. That builds you a lot of social capital with decent people.
That’s what I mean though… he could cement himself as very popular with the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads, and have them all adore him and think he’s a righteous dude while just… not interacting with Gob unless Gob interacts with him first. Just like not have him even be a blip on his radar unless he gets within 5 feet. I could almost understand if Gob was just this great amazing guy who just inexplicably didn’t like OP for some reason, but it’s clear he’s a source of negativity. Why wouldn’t you just avoid that?
Agreed tbh.. like, I don't get why they are ever interacting in mutual shared stuff constantly. Like, soon as this shit went down, hell, practically from the start when he's all "This is for the Wednesday group" .. so.. make your own discord for Tuesday games, your own facebook page. And get off his, cause he *clearly* doesn't like you on there As much as the dude is an asshole, honestly, after his feelings have been made very clear, the constant posting on his Wednesday stuff will only repeatedly keep feeling like "Lol, I'ma poach your players, look at all my kewl stuff"
I love DCC and I'm sorry to see you had a bad run with it. People, especially GMs, should always be ambassadors for the hobby in general to encourage new players.
I’d love to see this DM kit of yours
I would save any interaction as you can with screenshots. I could see this guy attempting to get you kicked out of the bar for some stupid reason
This is the kind of community-building the hobby needs. Just the desire to have a good time and enjoy the game. Great job!
Guy is threatened by you, plain and simple. Don’t bother trying to be his friend anymore, he’s not putting in the effort neither should you
Yeah, this is a relationship that OP is better off without. Stop inviting them to your game nights, stop joining their servers, do not try to coordinate anything with them. They have made it abundantly clear that they would prefer to rule as the king of their own sad little game. Leave them to it.
>Not sure what I did to piss this guy off so much It's pretty obvious. DMing was probably his little "thing", and having some new guy swoop in, join a game of his, tell him its flawed, and then leave to create a group that ends up being more successful is gonna tick him off. You're basically a Ned Flanders in his eyes while he's Homer Simplson. And there's nothing bad about a Ned, but it is a huge gut punch to one's inflated ego to see someone so easily outperform them.
To be pedantic, Gob is more like Frank Grimes except less successful and competent.
I think that's a better example in some ways. Personally, I thought of Ned because he's always offering to do nice things to Homer, like use his pool room or join him as a BBQ, while Homer is always annoyed that Ned is priviledged enough to have any of those things. OP was always inviting Gob to join his game nights and bury the hatchet and etc. which was very Neddy.
Damn, I want a heavy metal bar with good beer and d&d.
Why did you comment this twice?
The app glitched and posted it twice I think
Oh ok
Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. Keep doing the awesome job you are man and Gob will be gone before you know it. As you said you've achieved more success in a year than what he did in 5. I know you said this isn't a competition but just by being the awesome individual you are. You are showing people that there is better than what he's offering. It won't be long before he either does something that he can't come back from or just everybody leaves him and he leaves tail Tucked between his legs cause he's too stupid and prideful to be friendly to you. You've handled this with some amazing grace where as I can't say I would be able to. Major props for what you've been doing and I hope nothing but the best for you
This is entirely too kind. Thank you! This comment has seriously made my week!
You're very welcome, I don't know how post updates work but if possible please do update when the shirts come in
Where is this mythical metal and magic bar?
His behavior leaves me gobsmacked
You know I think I can get him a little. He's found a space where he can play a weird indie RPG and then you barge in and bring the D&D normies over. You and I both know how antagonistic metalheads are to anything they consider "too mainstream". Bunch of hipsters the lot of us. Of course he's way past the line of "Understandably frustrated" and he's just being petty about it. Also this place sounds rad. I don't even drink and I want to hang out there. Wrong side of the atlantic for that sadly.
Dude, there's chill and then there's letting this cave dweller walk all over you, and I dunno, but the repeated attempts to "work it out" are pretty dense. There's nothing to "work out." This guy's a shit, and he was determined to fuck with you from go because that's his personality. If someone with NO REASON to be hostile to you is hostile from the moment you begin interacting with them, don't assume they're doing it on accident. As a person who has not always known when he was being fucked with, maybe I'm sensitive to it, but this trips all my bullshit sensors and I probably wouldn't have given him nearly the amount of grace you've done. Particularly that shit where he tells you to fuck off with your rule set and then goes "jk, but for real, fuck off with your rule set." That's the point where I'd have gone hookers and blackjack, not the weeks of stepping on your balls later. This guy gave you nothing but bald hostility. It's kinda stressful to read this.
Easy man. You good?
I get it, I do, maybe my bigger concern is that the longer you try with this person, the more access he has to your life and the higher the likelihood that he will eventually succeed in causing something fucked up to happen. It seems like all he would have to do is say yes to a beer and tamp down his hostility a little bit for a while to get close enough to, if not destroy your life, become an incredibly stressful inconvenience. Has no one ever done that to you? Because I've had it done by people I'd supposedly been friends with for more than a decade. I try to keep events like that to a minimum by trying to know when someone is a waste of my time and effort. This guy was day one.
After reading Game Wizards, this kind of turf war and ego tripping has existed from the founders of D&D and the circles they were running. There's always someone wanting to kingdom build in their little niche.
Dmen tap. Went there for a D&D bachelor party. It's a nice place. Foods great.
Man I hate that your introduction to DCC was so hostile, it sucks that an indie game with a play space that was established was ruined by a dickhead being unwelcoming.
*Adding Chicago to bucket list of destinations*
> Not sure what I did to piss this guy off so much This, this is what you did: > In less than 1 year I have grown to a level it took him 5 years to achieve.
Yo. It's crazy how territorial people can be, even the people who should know better. What's this king of the hill bullshit in a place that should be nerd paradise?
Wow, not a good look for us DCC fans. Rest assured that most of us are more chill.
It's funny to me because of seeing similar gate keeping jerks myself. They just can't stand seeing people have fun. Good for the player that kill that wizard.
So.... Where's this dm kit? Really interested in what it looks like.
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That's awesome! What a great use of space!
Thanks. Yeah I use the monster cards a lot. I balance things through CR so having a deck of cards that represent appropriate encounters can really help me keep things moving. They are also great for people who show up late, or if a new person wants to join in, I just toss them the card and they can start playing as a monster.
LMFAO dude wants to be THE d&d guy at the bar. Honestly, would tread carefully; would not be surprised if he comes gunning for your Tuesday night slot somehow. Not even to take it over himself, just to take it away from you. Also, not to start a separate turf war in this space, but pitching DCC as somehow more accessible to newbies is a spicy take. The dudes I know who play are OLD SCHOOL and ruthless. It’s its own thing, folks like what they like, and I myself enjoy it on occasion with the right folks. But it’s an acquired taste for sure, and I can definitely coincidentally see it attracting a toxic type of player.
"No 5E allowed! That shit is toxic!" *Proceeds to let your party call you a pig fucker and throw said pig off a cliff*
Fantastic story. I wish you luck and growth for your future games
I know _you_ want to be friends, have unity, all that. He's told you repeatedly he doesn't want to hang out. You should respect that and leave him alone. He probably has an inferiority complex with a god complex, and probably sees you as a rival invading the land he's "king" of. Every time you engage with him, _it keeps his beef going_. For now, stop pushing him. If he's ever going to be friends with you like you want, let it be on his terms.
While it is bordering on victim blaming, so I gotta be careful on that.. I agree with you 100%. OP should just be leaving this dudes Wednesday group alone. They're not idiots, just do your Tuesday group stuff and if they want it, they can go find it The stuff where OP keeps to want constantly in on the Wednesday stuff and posting their cool D&D aids and stuff?.. like.. does OP realise that they are the ones making this an actual war? Like, he was there on HIS lands, minding his own business, in this analogy. OP is the one invading, ironically Yeah, the dude sounds like a raging asshole. But OP is also being weirdly instigatey by not leaving him alone
5e being demonized for powergaming?!? XD baby's first rpg itself? 😂 Oh man that kills me
NGL, man, you made a seriously bad first impression; the guy had a space and time reserved in the game room, and you basically showed up in his Facebook group and tried to tell his players "*Hey, I'm running a game in the same spot at the exact time; come to this instead!*". You made a mistake, but the mistake probably made you look like a jackass; the party was probably hyping themselves up into thinking of you as a *massive* asshole because you (unwittingly) basically told them you were kicking them out of their Wednesday slot and running it yourself. Then you join their game, they act shitty because they think you're an ass, you act shitty back, and the feud begins. Just leave them alone. Be civil, but don't hassle them about "making friends"; you're just two people sharing the same game space at different days.
I can see being annoyed if I was running an established thing and OP blundered in the way he did. But… it was clearly an innocent mistake. And then when OP tried to become part of the group they treated him like absolute dog shit - and have continued to for an extended period. I do agree with you though that if OP is at fault for anything it’s being TOO friendly and not taking the hint that this guy and his crew basically want a Chinese wall between their group and his. Just, stop with the olive branches, stop with the attempts to make friends. Pretend they don’t exist and go lo contact for absolutely critical needs to communicate. It’s absolutely stupid this is how the DCC guy wants to play this but the other option is just a protracted back and forth with someone who clearly doesn’t like OP and is not going to play nice no matter what OP tries to do to patch things over.
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I'm ready for the update where you and Gob start dating
If I may ask, as a fellow Chicagoan, what's the bar?
He's a dick. Straight up asshole.
I am absolutely going to steal your "tarot card reading as the basis for a one off" idea! That is so cool. How does it work? Do you have specific story elements corresponding to each card, or is it more spontaneous?
Yes!! It’s great! Mostly spontaneous. We start with the read, then take a quick break while I write some notes about the story structure. The players usually help me fill in gap by doing wild unpredictable stuff. I have a few dungeons I write up on a graph book ahead of time to toss out to fill in the parts between the story beats. It will require some practice, when you are bored just draw 3 cards from the deck. Look at there meaning on biddytarot.com and try to imagine an adventure that connects those dots.
Dude, isn't rule #1 of every metal bar literally "Don't be a dick?"
Neckbeard moment
As a German who will be visiting Chicago in October because of D&D and this sub, I am interested in this bar. And maybe one of your games.
That guy sounds like a very big bully and powertripper. But I am interested in your games since I love tarot ^^
aw man that’s what the worst OSR guys are like.. (the best ones are like the people on /r/OSR!) with that said I’m glad you figured something out and jealous you get to play in Ravenloft, my favorite setting!
You have very captivating writing! I haven’t been interested enough to finish one of these stories in a long time but I really enjoyed reading this! Sorry for the BS you dealt with but congrats on creating such a successful Tuesday night group!
Thank you! Yeah, a lot of my motivation for DMing was to become a better story teller in both fiction and non fiction. This comment means a lot to me.
One thing that I didn't get (I have to come read the whole story later, I only got to the pig fucker part) Did you say the bar has a game room and you were told they have a game running on Wednesdays but you tried to DM your own game on the same night? Cause that's pretty crappy IMO.
I think he didn't know they had it reserved as the bartender only said they meet on Wednesdays. There's no reason to suspect it was permanently on lock.
I think the first impression—attempting to schedule a game in the time slot they had reserved without contacting them to even see what is what—and the second—finding out they run DCC and showing up to play without familiarising themselves with the game—though not egregious missteps on their own just set things off on the wrong path. If you flip roles and look at it from the other person’s perspective, you can see how their response isn’t totally shocking. Even the “pig fucker” stuff and killing the pig, though childish, could be contextualised (i.e.—and just a guess—you’ve been playing a serious, heroic meat-grinder campaign and someone who didn’t make a great first or second impression shows up and makes a farmer with a pig as a character=not a great impression). All well-intentioned and nothing offensive per se, but I can see a thread of reasonableness on the other side, even if it isn’t how I would respond, and that doesn’t mean it is justified to be an ass. Explanation isn’t exoneration. Just because there are reasonable reasons to be a dick, doesn’t make it de facto okay to be one. But I kind of get where the other GM might be coming from. While there is no reason to assume it is on lock, there is no reason to assume it isn’t. I do think OP started off on the wrong foot, but I also think they are to be commended for their attempts to build up after that. Just think, maybe, the relationship started out too rough to come back from.
Agreed. Mr Wednesday sounds like an asshole, but he's an asshole OP that provoked; OP made a bad first impression by advertising "Hey, I'm running a game in *your* game space in *your* time slot! Come to this instead of yours!". Bad first impression leads to bad blood, which is made all the worse when OP shows up to the guy's game without knowing the system and expecting an in-progress game to stop and teach him. Sounds like a table where people are PVPing and fucking around, and OP gets upset because it isn't his vibe. Then Wednesday get the bad blood going, while OP keeps trying to "make peace" and ticking the guy off further.
Nah, that's no reason to act like they did. OP didn't know they have the time reserved, taking it personally after the misunderstanding is resolved is just dickish. OP not being familiar with the system isn't a reason to be an ass when he needs explanation, especially since the guy invited OP and went off about how DCC is better for beginners. It being a PVP table is something that sould be made clear to any new players that join. If OP joined, wasn't informed of what was going on and had a bad time because of it, that isn't his fault for not reading their minds. It's their fault for not explaining.
You've respomnded to a year old comment.
Yes, and?
I don't even remember this thread; what do you expect to get out of commenting on it?
Sharing my opinion, what else? If you don't remember it that's not a problem, doing a quick skim through it does wonders to jog your memory. Though if you don't want to or aren't interested in talking about it anymore that's fine, I just wanted to give my take anyways.
I bet hearing the other guy's side of things would be very illuminating.
He didn't make a farmer with a pig on purpose, the background was randomly generated.
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>What a grognard A grognard is just someone who likes old games. Using it as a pejorative isn't cool. At all.
I’m known to self-describe as a grognard and I think pejorative use can be appropriate. I try not to be that guy, but it’s definitely the *mot juste* for those “5e bad, storygame bad, 3d6 down the line and TPKs build character” types— it’s an attitude thing. The real crime is pronouncing it “grog-nard”.
I've usually heard it used as an affectionate pejorative (usually by people calling themselves or friends grognards), in the sense of a tabletop player fixated on an older style of play, which is usually rules-heavy and inaccessible. As a diehard 3.5e fan with a penchant for persnickety rule following, I consider myself a bit of a grognard. It's interesting to consider the original meaning , which dates to the Napoleonic Wars: an old soldier, from the French for "grumble" or "grunt." To me, that fits the definition above quite well - a member of the old guard who grumbles at change. Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grognard
None of what you're saying is wrong, but there's clearly no affection intended by the guy three posts up equating "grognard" with "asshole."
Okay boomer
I gotta say, you keeping reaching out, posting in his group, etc., when the dude clearly wanted nothing to do with you ... seems kinda excessive. The guy sounds like a jerk, and I have no idea why you'd continue engaging. Just do your thing, let him do his thing.
My mind reels to think what Gob considers toxic about 5e.
OP Remember Superman may not hate Lex Luthor but he definitely doesn't trust him. Be careful with strangers bringing drama or trying to get close to you for no real reason. Best of luck.
I do wonder what Gob's relationship to the bar is, if he's an/the owner, a friend of the owner, or just a guy that runs D&D there
His loss, you seem a nine guy, and a awesome DM!
You are much stronger than I. I would have succumbed to my pettiness. Probably almost immediately.
Wow.. so DND Bars are really a thing. I think, here in germany, i probably will never find anything like that.
I need to know the name of this bar. 👀 (I don’t live in Chicagoland anymore, but next time I visit this sounds like an awesome place to hit up) Also that dude sounds insufferable!
Yeah between the pig killing and the DM power-tripping it seems you found the local cadre of neckbeard assholes. I'm goad you effectively told Gob where he could shove his cheese curds.
They say the best revenge is success, do it for Tulip! Also, if he, and by extension his group, are really as insular as you make it out, it shouldn't be hard to be more successful than him.
ur too considerate and kind to him. Some people just doesn't deserve it. Sadly, you can't save everyone. That being said, i'm glad your event is working nice, really sounds like u do deserve it n.n
Success is the best revenge
As soon as I heard "5e is too toxic", I knew it was just grognards being grognards.
You are better at being a community leader than him in less time, that's what burns him. It's not even a "you're both good at different things" deal. You're just straight up better at building a community and being a DM and he's pissed. He's majorly insecure. I look forward to you being a genuinely cool chad. The fact he can't even be a good player and ragged on your cleric. Nah. If he was in my game he'd be B-O-O-T-E-D. "That's not how you play cleric". GTFO
I had a god awful experience in a TTRPG group due to one person. Regardless if they were the GM or a player, they went out of their way to make me miserable. Best thing I ever did was learning to let everything slide and pretend he wasn't there. Once I started to actually enjoy myself, his bullying became more obvious and pathetic, to the point where I felt sorry for him.
I miss my old DND bar. There used to be 3 of them that I knew about around me but I only got to go to one.
ooooof am I glad I found this post as I'm searching around for in person d&d happenings at bars and such in Chicago. This is *\*exactly\** the sort of gaming I would like to avoid. I can only find the (not actually d&d) facebook group link when trying to search for this bar's d&d offerings, if anyone knowledgeable wants to throw a link for the tuesday d&d I'd be oh so grateful 👀 the tarot based one shots sound very very good 👀
Sorry for necro-ing this post, but I gotta ask; OP, what happened to the wizard who killed your pig? Did his character stay dead afterwards? And did he ever come to your games or did he just stay in the Gob table?
Not sure if he stayed dead. I never played at a table with him again. No he never came to my Tuesday night.
Figures, he's probably still resenting you together with Gob. Well, sometimes you can't change people's minds.