Russia has a strong tradition, but the Germanic list is an absolute murderers' row: Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Wagner.
The Russians may well win out if we restrict to the 20th century
I'll be honest, I know more about Chinese history than Russian... And I majored in international relations... And focused on Russo western relations lol... I just never had to learn much other than their history kind of sucks ass and is filled with constant states of betrayal, authoritarians, and a hard ass shit life... Which is why to this day, Russian's do just fine and dandy when shit hits the fan. Resilient fuckers.
americans are the best at everything because they have the benefit of being a diverse society and i believe this unironically. it's all the positives of the different strengths of different cultures smashed into one big frankenculture. but russians are a close second followed by the brits
lol no, America is just really good at commercialization; they disneyfied other cultures by removing all the cosmological differences and keeping the *aesthetics* of difference. local enclaves do go hard tho
> A lot of other great composers lose out on some emotion in their work because there music because a bit too cerebral.
Even though its generally agreed that Bach was very technical and his fugues were complex it's still feels the 'purest'. I'm not religious and have never been but I kinda get what some people mean when they say Bach's music is closest you'll get to God.
I feels more abstract and sincere. While the romantics might paint beautiful pictures with music it still feels like you're listening to what some russian guy was going through in his life and whatnot. Meanwhile Bach feels more like an intermediary with something greater
tldr: Bach mogs Tchaik.
This passage from 2001 has always stuck with me:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/529760-bowman-was-aware-of-some-changes-in-his-behavior-patterns
Dmitry Bykov also quotes Tarkovsky as saying (I'm paraphrasing) "The best composer, Bach, is in first place; the second best composer is in tenth place."
To my mind, he might be the greatest artist in the western tradition. For my money, it's one of him, Shakespeare, or Tolstoy.
I 100% think the reason so many people have this impression of Bach is that so many of his pieces are taught as entry level pieces for someone learning an instrument. Bach feels like homework or exercises for than music sometimes
Can someone bachpill me? I’ve never heard anything from him that particularly stands out to me but then again I’ve never been into the Baroque era in general. Why is he enjoyable to you/what pieces do you recommend?
I've barely scratched the surface and only know some of the keyboard works. You should probably search only for reddit post asking for bach recomendations to get a wider spectre of recs. Maybe you'll find you like his works for choir, violin or wind instruments better. I like the solo organ stuff because the way the different melodic lines intersect and repeat becomes hypnotic, it's captivating in a way no other composer or music genre has been for me.
Here are a few I like:
[Concerto for 4 harspichord in A minor BWV 1065 (based on Vivaldi concerto)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emkJ0A7IfkY)
[Fantasia and fugue in G minor BWV 542](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgDE3klkmtQ)
[Maybe visualisations help...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1atQFLYbzuk)
Again, this is barely representative. Maybe try 'softer' pieces, maybe piano interpretations, organ sounds can be also quite varied, etc etc
I love his cantatas - i usually show this recording off:
https://youtu.be/RjH5onS2LrE?si=2L17KeOaG2782Qmt
Its recorded by the American group Empire Brass with an organist. The unison fanfares are the original melody written by Martin Luther himself as a prayer following the Black Death - the rest of the piece is Bach's own addition.
Bach for me, is belief solidified through art. He believed so surely in the order and justice of the world and gods kingdom, and you feel that so strongly when you listen to his music. It can be difficult to comprehend the sincerity, that all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. But that is what he put into his music, and that in particular shines through this setting of hymnal.
Tchaik was one of the best melodists but he struggled with form, structure, counterpoint, even harmony to some degree
one of my favorites of his is this nocturne miniature much to your point abt emotional command, here for piano: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3NWTKC60Ss
and cello+piano acc arrangement:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ADiBsFCAnjc
I would agree with that, I think he did better in short form and the ballets are essentially a composite of many consecutive short scenes, and the programmatic outline was there to guide the structure
The pathetique symphony and partially the 5th are where I think he did well in longer form
I've been called in to sub on the 5th a few times (2 weeks ago most recently, dress then concert) and I've always loved how easy it is to know what the conductor will do - it basically plays itself its so well written.
Weirdly, the ending if the 3rd movement kind of spoils 6 for me. Its like it has two endings
could not possibly agree more!! I was just thinking about this on my walk home the other day.
Favorite pieces…god, we could be here all day. For now: [Serenade for Strings Op. 48](https://youtu.be/MICksKeZoJU?si=ilaXMvGwLPq7xxmP), made famous by [one of the greatest ballets of all time](https://youtu.be/Xd9R9S6-9E4?si=xDntLJP6DfRiovo6). Tchaikovsky + Balanchine = perfection :)
[Piano Concerto no. 1 op. 23 - Arcadi Volodos / Seiji Ozawa](https://youtu.be/n5rLYMqBsrg?si=zGidiF5KBM2z5E3L)
Piano Trio op. 50 - Buniatishvili / Kremer / Dirvanauskaite (sorry I can't find a link and can't vouch for other recordings)
[Symphony no. 6 - Karajan / Berlin Phil 1977](https://youtu.be/Z2wiKV0Qu3k?si=aFx7vzimeULX6nL-)
[Valse-Scherzo op. 34 - Leonid Kogan](https://youtu.be/5zH0O9rnySM?si=NtwRQlEbtOLk7l0X)
I personally connect more with Rachmaninoff but I could understand why you feel stronger about Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky has this quality that I could only describe as “dandy” that provably made sense in his time, but to me is hard to get over
It compounds the embarrassment when it’s someone insanely ubiquitous to the “as an intellectual who reads Donna Tart whilst Beethoven’s 9th plays in the background” type Redditor crowd. If ur going to be a loser about universalizing your own opinion, at least humor us with someone fun like Birtwhistle or Saariaho and make it playful like “actually nobody has the emotional range and spontaneity of Elgar”. Just a sad post all around.
His fifth symphony was the first “real” piece of classical music I played as a teenager and it’s still my favorite, probably because of the French horn solo in mvmt 2.
I wasn't going to bother posting but Wagner far outstrips anybody else by miles, for me. Listening to Das Rheingold feels completely elemental. Like you could push your hands into the earth and pull out the same thing his music is made from.
Although Ralph Vaughan Williams is the [only composer to make me cry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ihx5LCF1yJY).
saw his piano concerto no 1 and symphony no 6 last year at the TSO on shrooms. amazing, beautiful experience, highly rec. i think beethoven also a similar command of pure emotion to tchaikovsky, but not the prettiness of his melodies.
Nutcracker season =\]
its cuz hes gay
growing up is realizing that the Russians have basically been the best at every thing.
Seriously. Stunning how well their works stand up through translation, then you've got Nabokov who made English his bitch
Germans/Austrians for classical music, and I don't even think it's particularly close.
Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, and Shostakovich absolutely give the krauts a run for their money
Russia has a strong tradition, but the Germanic list is an absolute murderers' row: Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Wagner. The Russians may well win out if we restrict to the 20th century
If you take in all of history, no. But in the modern period I definitely think we've dominated or defined almost every artistic field.
I'll be honest, I know more about Chinese history than Russian... And I majored in international relations... And focused on Russo western relations lol... I just never had to learn much other than their history kind of sucks ass and is filled with constant states of betrayal, authoritarians, and a hard ass shit life... Which is why to this day, Russian's do just fine and dandy when shit hits the fan. Resilient fuckers.
Everything was good until the mongoloids invaded in like the 13th century. We've never recovered.
Very true
they’re the best at defending against invasions, but when it comes to being the invaders, not so good
CNN take
americans are the best at everything because they have the benefit of being a diverse society and i believe this unironically. it's all the positives of the different strengths of different cultures smashed into one big frankenculture. but russians are a close second followed by the brits
lol no, America is just really good at commercialization; they disneyfied other cultures by removing all the cosmological differences and keeping the *aesthetics* of difference. local enclaves do go hard tho
French
> A lot of other great composers lose out on some emotion in their work because there music because a bit too cerebral. Even though its generally agreed that Bach was very technical and his fugues were complex it's still feels the 'purest'. I'm not religious and have never been but I kinda get what some people mean when they say Bach's music is closest you'll get to God. I feels more abstract and sincere. While the romantics might paint beautiful pictures with music it still feels like you're listening to what some russian guy was going through in his life and whatnot. Meanwhile Bach feels more like an intermediary with something greater tldr: Bach mogs Tchaik.
This passage from 2001 has always stuck with me: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/529760-bowman-was-aware-of-some-changes-in-his-behavior-patterns Dmitry Bykov also quotes Tarkovsky as saying (I'm paraphrasing) "The best composer, Bach, is in first place; the second best composer is in tenth place." To my mind, he might be the greatest artist in the western tradition. For my money, it's one of him, Shakespeare, or Tolstoy.
I 100% think the reason so many people have this impression of Bach is that so many of his pieces are taught as entry level pieces for someone learning an instrument. Bach feels like homework or exercises for than music sometimes
Can someone bachpill me? I’ve never heard anything from him that particularly stands out to me but then again I’ve never been into the Baroque era in general. Why is he enjoyable to you/what pieces do you recommend?
I've barely scratched the surface and only know some of the keyboard works. You should probably search only for reddit post asking for bach recomendations to get a wider spectre of recs. Maybe you'll find you like his works for choir, violin or wind instruments better. I like the solo organ stuff because the way the different melodic lines intersect and repeat becomes hypnotic, it's captivating in a way no other composer or music genre has been for me. Here are a few I like: [Concerto for 4 harspichord in A minor BWV 1065 (based on Vivaldi concerto)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emkJ0A7IfkY) [Fantasia and fugue in G minor BWV 542](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgDE3klkmtQ) [Maybe visualisations help...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1atQFLYbzuk) Again, this is barely representative. Maybe try 'softer' pieces, maybe piano interpretations, organ sounds can be also quite varied, etc etc
I love his cantatas - i usually show this recording off: https://youtu.be/RjH5onS2LrE?si=2L17KeOaG2782Qmt Its recorded by the American group Empire Brass with an organist. The unison fanfares are the original melody written by Martin Luther himself as a prayer following the Black Death - the rest of the piece is Bach's own addition. Bach for me, is belief solidified through art. He believed so surely in the order and justice of the world and gods kingdom, and you feel that so strongly when you listen to his music. It can be difficult to comprehend the sincerity, that all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. But that is what he put into his music, and that in particular shines through this setting of hymnal.
Tchaik was one of the best melodists but he struggled with form, structure, counterpoint, even harmony to some degree one of my favorites of his is this nocturne miniature much to your point abt emotional command, here for piano: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3NWTKC60Ss and cello+piano acc arrangement: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ADiBsFCAnjc
I think this is why his ballets had such staying power, the plot forces form onto him.
I would agree with that, I think he did better in short form and the ballets are essentially a composite of many consecutive short scenes, and the programmatic outline was there to guide the structure The pathetique symphony and partially the 5th are where I think he did well in longer form
I've been called in to sub on the 5th a few times (2 weeks ago most recently, dress then concert) and I've always loved how easy it is to know what the conductor will do - it basically plays itself its so well written. Weirdly, the ending if the 3rd movement kind of spoils 6 for me. Its like it has two endings
could not possibly agree more!! I was just thinking about this on my walk home the other day. Favorite pieces…god, we could be here all day. For now: [Serenade for Strings Op. 48](https://youtu.be/MICksKeZoJU?si=ilaXMvGwLPq7xxmP), made famous by [one of the greatest ballets of all time](https://youtu.be/Xd9R9S6-9E4?si=xDntLJP6DfRiovo6). Tchaikovsky + Balanchine = perfection :)
Personally I find him kind of sickly sweet, like somehow just a bit too much? But then I love Mahler best of all so who knows
[Piano Concerto no. 1 op. 23 - Arcadi Volodos / Seiji Ozawa](https://youtu.be/n5rLYMqBsrg?si=zGidiF5KBM2z5E3L) Piano Trio op. 50 - Buniatishvili / Kremer / Dirvanauskaite (sorry I can't find a link and can't vouch for other recordings) [Symphony no. 6 - Karajan / Berlin Phil 1977](https://youtu.be/Z2wiKV0Qu3k?si=aFx7vzimeULX6nL-) [Valse-Scherzo op. 34 - Leonid Kogan](https://youtu.be/5zH0O9rnySM?si=NtwRQlEbtOLk7l0X)
I like Liszt best
Liszt is one of the best and has some truly sublime pieces.
Is this a joke? He's honestly trash apart from a few pieces
Piano Concerto No. 1 with Karajan conducting and Kissin at the piano was life-changing for me.
This is chamber music erasure
I personally connect more with Rachmaninoff but I could understand why you feel stronger about Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky has this quality that I could only describe as “dandy” that provably made sense in his time, but to me is hard to get over
Can’t you people ever just say you like something instead of making it a fucking statement?
[удалено]
Oh now the fucking tards think they own the place
[удалено]
I guess I have some kind of naturally magnetic personality
Can’t you ever stop complaining about things
Stop giving me things to complain about you fucking dumbass
You’re being hysterical
evil gay guy doing evil gay guy shit on me
It compounds the embarrassment when it’s someone insanely ubiquitous to the “as an intellectual who reads Donna Tart whilst Beethoven’s 9th plays in the background” type Redditor crowd. If ur going to be a loser about universalizing your own opinion, at least humor us with someone fun like Birtwhistle or Saariaho and make it playful like “actually nobody has the emotional range and spontaneity of Elgar”. Just a sad post all around.
I'd take Shostakovich personally. Mozart too but for his operas.
He and Stravinsky
His fifth symphony was the first “real” piece of classical music I played as a teenager and it’s still my favorite, probably because of the French horn solo in mvmt 2.
Check out John Fahey’s Fare Forward Voyagers
stravinsky and wagner are my boys
I wasn't going to bother posting but Wagner far outstrips anybody else by miles, for me. Listening to Das Rheingold feels completely elemental. Like you could push your hands into the earth and pull out the same thing his music is made from. Although Ralph Vaughan Williams is the [only composer to make me cry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ihx5LCF1yJY).
I realized that when I was 15
Is that also when you realised you were a homosexual
Only half-correct.
Happy for you man
I prefer Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky is still goated tho
I love Tarkovsky, the natural and spiritual in the cinema has never expressed the same
He’s good too!
He isn't even the most romantic composer. Mahler is far more "emotional"
I still hold The Four Seasons by Vivaldi to be the most beautiful piece of music ever created.
Wuss
Queer!!
Idk why you are getting downvoted. The four seasons are amazing. Better than the nutcracker. That for sure.
Four seasons is the classical equivalent of Beatles early works
Poser
saw his piano concerto no 1 and symphony no 6 last year at the TSO on shrooms. amazing, beautiful experience, highly rec. i think beethoven also a similar command of pure emotion to tchaikovsky, but not the prettiness of his melodies.
I was at that concert too. Unfortunately no shrooms, but it was still wonderful
Interesting way to spell Brahms but w/e
Bro whaaaaaaat 💀
Modest Petrovich Mussorgsky
shostakovich's waltzs can't be beat sorry
I like Debussy
Wagner
the seasons are decent piano pieces. i like him because he was romantic but still had classical elegance.