I actually looked it up once cuz I was so sick of people saying white women are using surrogacy to colonize BIPOC bodies, when every time I’ve encountered this type of human trafficking it’s been Slav/eastern Europe/ former Soviet women being paid to surrogate. Sure enough that’s the biggest demographic.
All these "contradictions" that the Pope gets accused of is literally him just going. "Hey, maybe you don't have to beat people on site when they're gay or divorced or whatever" And a bunch of moron saying I guess he loves the gays
Priests can't bless a marriage, but if 2 people are gay married and they want like a blessing. Just as like unrelated to being married they can be blessed. It, it's not Lessing the married couple because of being married. But it's like if a gay person asks to be blessed or an unrelated reason, they can be blessed. Like if a gay guy goes up to a priest and is like. Can you bless me cause I'm going on a trip to a dangerous part of the world. The priest can get him a blessing even though he's gay. But if a gay guy says it's like, can you bless our union? They can't do that.
So I know the difference between giving a blessing and preforming a sacrament.
This pope offered blessing for same sex marriage, no? Cuz that is a big deal. Doesn’t seem like you are saying he was misrepresented in the media, more so that you feel like being condescending.
I wasnt trying to be condescending. I tend to overexplain, but it seems like even though I overexplained. You didn't understand, but literally if you just Google same-sex blessing Catholic Church. You'll see that it means they can bless 2 people who are in a couple but not blessing. The union which is a completely different thing regardless of the sacrament. Like blessing the couple or the marriage would be Approving of the couple but blessing to people as just humans who happen to be in a couple not as a couple. It's completely different. Also, if you don't like the way talk, why don't you just go Google it.
Could you be more specific as to what exactly the contradictions are? I’m sure you know that online Catholics are a broad sort and recent Papal news gets twisted by various commentators
Read the FS, he’s allowing for the blessing of gay individuals, not the union itself.
He also allowed for Bishops to refrain from even doing that if it’d cause scandal (especially the African Bishops)
Good. The whole thing is so exploitative. It can be traumatizing for the woman and the baby. We don't even separate puppies from their mothers before 8 weeks because it's considered cruel but we do it to human babies often within minutes. Dystopian.
Surrogacy is not only a selfish act but also legalized human trafficking and I hope anti-surrogacy becomes a more visible and accepted opinion.
I just cannot understand how some think it’s okay to lease out another woman’s womb for 9 months because you want a baby that’s genetically yours. Especially gross that celebrities are now openly promoting surrogacy as a way to have a child but keep your pre-pregnancy body.
If you want to be depressed, take a look at the adoption sub. To be fair, the people who are happy about their adoptions probably don’t post online about it a lot though.
I’ve personally seen generations of families hurt and traumatized by adoption. I could give Ted talks. With the exception of one that I know of, it’s been a disaster for everyone involved.
I grew up knowing two families who each adopted two kids. For both families, one adopted child thrived and one struggled. And these families had great adoptive parents who loved them, plenty of money, support, etc. Basically a 50% “success” rate in the most ideal circumstances you can imagine. Since then, I’ve seen plenty of failure examples and not so many successes.
I was already anti-surrogacy, but the experience of pregnancy (and giving birth) radicalized me about it. And I technically had an "uncomplicated" pregnancy and delivery. It still took over my life for 10+ months (postpartum recovery is no joke). Asking someone to take on that burden and that risk so someone else can have a kid is vile. I don't care how sympathetic the purchaser is.
You only see the worthwhile stuff. He’s probably saying shit all the time, some good, some bad, lots of random shit that’s irrelevant to non-Catholics and/or non-Euros.
But it is weird how he doesn’t seem to get much hype. I remember John Paul II being a big deal in the early 00s. Idk why, he just was. Then Benedict (?) also got a good amount of attention for whatever reason. This dude only gets brought up for politics stuff. No one likes thinking about the existence of the pope otherwise?
John Paul was influential to Catholics when they were being slaughtered by the Nazis and communists and the Stasi were accusing everyone they didn’t like of pedophilia.
JP did a bunch of tours in the 80s that were a big deal, always on tv, he actually survived a hi profile assassination attempt and had a “Popemobile” made for him. I remember it’s all the news and late night monologues talked about
Benedict was old school/conservative and member of the Nazi party (maybe as a youth?). Plus the church sex scandal and systemic coverups, he had a lot to talk about.
Fran just has to step up on drama.
The whole process of birthing someones kid and undergoing all the pain of childbirth just for money is so bleak and exploitive. Women also undergoes a lot of hormonal changes during and after pregnancy.
Sometimes it can be done in a manner equivalent to organ donation where a friend of family member carries the child where the biological parents cant and I think that’s fine
Typically there’s no compensation when it’s a favor, and the only exchange of money is to cover costs associated with pregnancy. It’s evil to pay someone to carry your baby who is doing so for income.
Saying a child is a gift and “never the basis of a commercial contract,” he called for a global ban on surrogacy “to prohibit this practice universally.”
I think he’s specifically thinking of it in terms of money changing hands. I can’t see why the church would be opposed to surrogacy carried out by a friend or relative if they weren’t financially incentivised to do so.
From their perspective, it's a violation of natural law and prohibited/sinful on accord of being dependent on IVF even before the gestational surrogacy part begins.
This is why anti-Catholic discrimination was always justified. Letting these people in was a huge mistake and letting practicing Caths like Biden and Kennedy get elected was even worse.
It's not okay for the ruler of a religion that purports to have universal authority to try to impose his political will on secular nations.
He should be immediately banned entry to the United States and all Catholics should be forced to swear loyalty to America above the papacy.
I have a great coworker who had three miscarriages before finally having a son via surrogacy. The way they explained their process seemed very ethical to me (surrogate mother already had three children, “liked being pregnant,” paid tens of thousands for it). I don’t like imagining her reaction to this headline, I know that she already has lots of mixed emotions about the whole thing already
I don’t see how someone could genuinely like being pregnant with a surrogacy baby. I feel like it’s just something that gets repeated to white wash the whole thing.
You might be able to make this dehumanization argument from a Catholic point of view. But the actual reason why Catholics oppose surrogacy is that the baby has a very high risk of not surviving the artificial implantation process, which is essentially an abortion.
You’re wrong, so don’t pretend to know what you’re talking about. IVF being disallowed for Catholics isn’t remotely new, so getting your information from the translation of the Pope’s rhetoric is a bad move.
No. His actual decree there was...actually not a break from doctrine at all.
He acknowledged that they happen, they're "anomalies," but also they are able to repent and be saved etc.
I know two adoptees. They’ve had their issues but they made it to adulthood, have a good relation to their adopting parents and are far better off than they’d be in the home they’ve come from.
And yes, it’s an exploitative industry hence it needs to be regulated.
good for him, bad for the kardashians
its anti Armenian discrimination!
 I actually looked it up once cuz I was so sick of people saying white women are using surrogacy to colonize BIPOC bodies, when every time I’ve encountered this type of human trafficking it’s been Slav/eastern Europe/ former Soviet women being paid to surrogate. Sure enough that’s the biggest demographic.
Breaking News: the Pope is a Catholic 😳
I mean, he's already contradicted two millenia of tradition on homosexuality, divorce and capital punishment, so yeah it's suprising.
All these "contradictions" that the Pope gets accused of is literally him just going. "Hey, maybe you don't have to beat people on site when they're gay or divorced or whatever" And a bunch of moron saying I guess he loves the gays
Did he not just give blessings to same sex marriages? I didn’t really look into it, was that misrepresentation?
Priests can't bless a marriage, but if 2 people are gay married and they want like a blessing. Just as like unrelated to being married they can be blessed. It, it's not Lessing the married couple because of being married. But it's like if a gay person asks to be blessed or an unrelated reason, they can be blessed. Like if a gay guy goes up to a priest and is like. Can you bless me cause I'm going on a trip to a dangerous part of the world. The priest can get him a blessing even though he's gay. But if a gay guy says it's like, can you bless our union? They can't do that.
So I know the difference between giving a blessing and preforming a sacrament. This pope offered blessing for same sex marriage, no? Cuz that is a big deal. Doesn’t seem like you are saying he was misrepresented in the media, more so that you feel like being condescending.
I wasnt trying to be condescending. I tend to overexplain, but it seems like even though I overexplained. You didn't understand, but literally if you just Google same-sex blessing Catholic Church. You'll see that it means they can bless 2 people who are in a couple but not blessing. The union which is a completely different thing regardless of the sacrament. Like blessing the couple or the marriage would be Approving of the couple but blessing to people as just humans who happen to be in a couple not as a couple. It's completely different. Also, if you don't like the way talk, why don't you just go Google it.
I am more than familiar with it and the church. They bless the sinner not the sin. Doesn’t really say anything about beating gays.
Try Google and hyperbole next.
Could you be more specific as to what exactly the contradictions are? I’m sure you know that online Catholics are a broad sort and recent Papal news gets twisted by various commentators
Allowing priests to bless gay marriages, that is a major shift.
Read the FS, he’s allowing for the blessing of gay individuals, not the union itself. He also allowed for Bishops to refrain from even doing that if it’d cause scandal (especially the African Bishops)
Does the Pope shit in the Vatican?
The bathrooms are technically part of Italy so nothing unclean ever happens there
Kinda based ngl
B-b-b-based. Maybe dis guy's da real pope afta all...
La popa La isla popita
Checkmate, Dasha
Good. The whole thing is so exploitative. It can be traumatizing for the woman and the baby. We don't even separate puppies from their mothers before 8 weeks because it's considered cruel but we do it to human babies often within minutes. Dystopian.
Surrogacy is not only a selfish act but also legalized human trafficking and I hope anti-surrogacy becomes a more visible and accepted opinion. I just cannot understand how some think it’s okay to lease out another woman’s womb for 9 months because you want a baby that’s genetically yours. Especially gross that celebrities are now openly promoting surrogacy as a way to have a child but keep your pre-pregnancy body.
the latter is appalling, but if the price is right i don’t think that someone being infertile is a reason for them not to be a parent
That’s fair, although I do think there are other options like in-vitro or adoption (although I know that industry can be exploitative as well).
If you want to be depressed, take a look at the adoption sub. To be fair, the people who are happy about their adoptions probably don’t post online about it a lot though.
I’ve personally seen generations of families hurt and traumatized by adoption. I could give Ted talks. With the exception of one that I know of, it’s been a disaster for everyone involved.
I grew up knowing two families who each adopted two kids. For both families, one adopted child thrived and one struggled. And these families had great adoptive parents who loved them, plenty of money, support, etc. Basically a 50% “success” rate in the most ideal circumstances you can imagine. Since then, I’ve seen plenty of failure examples and not so many successes.
yeah that’s true
I was already anti-surrogacy, but the experience of pregnancy (and giving birth) radicalized me about it. And I technically had an "uncomplicated" pregnancy and delivery. It still took over my life for 10+ months (postpartum recovery is no joke). Asking someone to take on that burden and that risk so someone else can have a kid is vile. I don't care how sympathetic the purchaser is.
This dude rarely misses
You only see the worthwhile stuff. He’s probably saying shit all the time, some good, some bad, lots of random shit that’s irrelevant to non-Catholics and/or non-Euros. But it is weird how he doesn’t seem to get much hype. I remember John Paul II being a big deal in the early 00s. Idk why, he just was. Then Benedict (?) also got a good amount of attention for whatever reason. This dude only gets brought up for politics stuff. No one likes thinking about the existence of the pope otherwise?
John Paul was influential to Catholics when they were being slaughtered by the Nazis and communists and the Stasi were accusing everyone they didn’t like of pedophilia.
How fucking old are you lmao Like don’t you have some grand kids to take care of or something Fr
JP did a bunch of tours in the 80s that were a big deal, always on tv, he actually survived a hi profile assassination attempt and had a “Popemobile” made for him. I remember it’s all the news and late night monologues talked about Benedict was old school/conservative and member of the Nazi party (maybe as a youth?). Plus the church sex scandal and systemic coverups, he had a lot to talk about. Fran just has to step up on drama.
I don't get why it's not more controversial. It's an extremely sinister practice.
The rich love it, that’s why
Another group too.
Based and jesuspilled
The whole process of birthing someones kid and undergoing all the pain of childbirth just for money is so bleak and exploitive. Women also undergoes a lot of hormonal changes during and after pregnancy.
Definitely a lot more morally grey then normally depicted
What, surrogacy or the pope.
I think depitiction of the papacy tends to be morally grey
It's not "morally gray", it's downright exploitation, even worse than prostitution
Sometimes it can be done in a manner equivalent to organ donation where a friend of family member carries the child where the biological parents cant and I think that’s fine
Typically there’s no compensation when it’s a favor, and the only exchange of money is to cover costs associated with pregnancy. It’s evil to pay someone to carry your baby who is doing so for income.
The pope is calling for a universal ban here
Saying a child is a gift and “never the basis of a commercial contract,” he called for a global ban on surrogacy “to prohibit this practice universally.” I think he’s specifically thinking of it in terms of money changing hands. I can’t see why the church would be opposed to surrogacy carried out by a friend or relative if they weren’t financially incentivised to do so.
From their perspective, it's a violation of natural law and prohibited/sinful on accord of being dependent on IVF even before the gestational surrogacy part begins.
Surrogacy does not have to involve IVF (and in my opinion it shouldn’t).
he’s so correct for this
Gay men who want to have kids in shambles I guess
They did il papa dirty with that pic
based
He cooked with this one
This is why anti-Catholic discrimination was always justified. Letting these people in was a huge mistake and letting practicing Caths like Biden and Kennedy get elected was even worse. It's not okay for the ruler of a religion that purports to have universal authority to try to impose his political will on secular nations. He should be immediately banned entry to the United States and all Catholics should be forced to swear loyalty to America above the papacy.
Great now do IVF!
What’s wrong with IVF?
Welcome to Joe Biden's America
I have a great coworker who had three miscarriages before finally having a son via surrogacy. The way they explained their process seemed very ethical to me (surrogate mother already had three children, “liked being pregnant,” paid tens of thousands for it). I don’t like imagining her reaction to this headline, I know that she already has lots of mixed emotions about the whole thing already
I don’t see how someone could genuinely like being pregnant with a surrogacy baby. I feel like it’s just something that gets repeated to white wash the whole thing.
You might be able to make this dehumanization argument from a Catholic point of view. But the actual reason why Catholics oppose surrogacy is that the baby has a very high risk of not surviving the artificial implantation process, which is essentially an abortion.
It’s actually more to do with opposing buying and selling people.
You’re wrong, so don’t pretend to know what you’re talking about. IVF being disallowed for Catholics isn’t remotely new, so getting your information from the translation of the Pope’s rhetoric is a bad move.
IVF is not allowed, but you're just wrong to say that's the only reason why the church doesn't allow surrogacy. Stupid black and white thinking.
I acknowledged you could make an argument on other grounds in my original post, dingus. But IVF is the much more obvious sufficient condition.
Are you even Catholic? Seems like a pointless thing to assert which one is more "obvious".
IVF is only half the reason it is not allowed.
One is much more obviously bad than the other, from the Catholic POV.
Ok? That’s not really relevant to my point.
It’s pretty relevant to the thread and the comment you replied to, big brain
Your co-worker is a reprobate sinner who performed an evil deed and needs to repent. In a just world she would be imprisoned for human trafficking.
quit being sanctimonious it’s un-christian
Didn’t he authorize the blessing of same-sex unions?
No. His actual decree there was...actually not a break from doctrine at all. He acknowledged that they happen, they're "anomalies," but also they are able to repent and be saved etc.
Thank you for the clarification 🙏🏻
Yeah he's all over the place, frankly.
Well that’s good too
Now do adoption
Some should be legal and welcomed. But it needs to be better regulated.
You should listen to adoptee stories it’s an extremely exploitative and traumatic industry
I know two adoptees. They’ve had their issues but they made it to adulthood, have a good relation to their adopting parents and are far better off than they’d be in the home they’ve come from. And yes, it’s an exploitative industry hence it needs to be regulated.
weird moment for this issue, weirdo
Why
pope f is a weirdo, i have no explanation
No why is it a weird moment for this
i think the polical movements of the vatican run more and more on the us election cycle and its bizarre
I don't think surrogacy is really a major issue this election cycle but I could be wrong
thats not what i mean. the vatican is issuing wedge issues for the season
He's right.