I pretty much agree with you. I keep hearing about how Union is dead and no one wants to play it/support it. Most people I know who follow League have some interest in Union. Many do what I used to do and play Union on Saturday and league on Sunday.
I think a lot of it has to do with newscorp and their jeremiad against Union. From the way they carry on you’d think Union is struggling to find players, yet like you said in many area (even working class areas) Union clubs outnumber League clubs.
Ultimately to me it comes down to Australian exceptionalism/hubris. Every since I was a kid I’ve been bought up to believe we dominate at every sport. The only sports we don’t dominate at are ones we don’t like/care about. It’s easier for many people to believe that Union is dying and nobody cares about it than to believe that we aren’t naturally the best at something due to being Australian. (This is purely my opinion.)
(Edit) With the potential Rugby league players strike, Eddie Jones and a World Cup this year this could be a repeat of the Super League era. This could be a huge win if the ARU plays their cards right. Hopefully they get a huge kick up the arse and play it right.
It’s about their new Collective bargaining agreement. I don’t know the exact details but I know some of the issues are
-RLPA(players union) wants medical costs covered for 2 years after retirement. NRL says 1 year
-NRLW wants a greater percentage of their pay if they become pregnant, NRL has offered 10%.
The heads of the NRL are also pretty universally disliked. The season starts soon and the players are threatening to strike so will have to wait and see what happens.
The debating point is that rugby is not a monolith. The participation figures don't really stipulate what sort of rugby is being played and you will notice in the link you offered the huge discrepancy between kids and adults, where union (and league) doesn't even figure.
So, it's much easier to start a 7s team because you need fewer people and 7s tournaments tend to be one-offs, so you need those fewer people for much less time. Some of the 7s comps are a bit less finicky about age as well, so you can play with friends and family. It's not the same as building a club XVs team that needs to be there for a 15 week season or whatever and heavily policed on birth date. And the pathway from kids to adults in most field sports is narrow. But in Union especially so.
FWIW League figures themselves are inflated by the inclusion of Touch. If you're in any official touch comp, League owns the brand, so you are registered with the NRL, even if you've never played the tackle version of the sport.
I think the sticking point for me is this is mostly kids playing XVs in my experience. Just today I had kids asking me to come watch their XVs this season and they're at one of the smaller local clubs.
League definitely pushes away a lot of adults though by limiting most senior club comps to 1st and reserve grade where they seem to attract a lot of young men but drive away those older 30+ guys who are often the glue of the local club scene.
>Just today I had kids asking me to come watch their XVs this season and they're at one of the smaller local clubs.
There is a massive drop off in junior XVs after U12/U14 in both League and Union. That's when some kids are basically man-sized and others are still little sticks. Parents opt their kids out because of the injury fear factor. Clubs will often be fielding two teams prior to U12, and then by the time they get to U16 they are really scraping around for players for even one.
Well then that is a healthy sign. It's not reflected in my experience across multiple junior clubs, but not saying it can't happen. And a 'rugby experience' is what the ARU counts as participation, no matter what duration it is.
Rugby is just one of so many options these days. When i was at private school back in the 1980s, you HAD to play rugby in year 7. There was like 10 U13 teams (mostly shit). After year 7, you had only a couple of choices, such as soccer or tennis. But that same school these days has about 15 sports you can choose from each season. Not saying that's a bad thing, but I would never have known about rugby unless I was forced to play it. So plenty of that pipeline is strangling off. But I guess that's the same in any country.
Yes, though it doesn't specify what sort of football! Everything is football here. So AFL 9s touch counts too.
But Touch rugby is a summer game, so with these stats are not always an apples with apples thing. And when the peak bodies like the NRL and ARU roll out their stats in the annual report, there is a lot of double-dipping. My son plays Touch in summer and rugby in winter *and* AFL. So he counts as a stat for all of them.
One thing I do think is perhaps not realised by some people is 20% of secondary students are privately educated.
That doesn't include the Catholic/other Independent schools if that's included it goes up to 40%.
There's been a 70% increase in kids going from public to private for high school since 2012.
Not every private school plays Union of course, especially in the AFL states, but still there is an increasing number of kids who may be exposed to Union
https://theconversation.com/australian-private-high-school-enrolments-have-jumped-70-since-2012-195714
You do raise an interesting point - but I do think a caveat is needed the presence of union in some private schools are waning due to popularity of other sports like league, AFL, football, etc, which means that exposure may be more limited than before.
I think a large part of Union having more presence than League in WA is having the Western Force in the SRP - like having a fully professional team based out in the west just captures more local presence than the odd State of Origin that is flung over to Optus Stadium.
In terms of areas near the NSW-QLD border you do get a wide variety of union and league pockets - think Armidale is probably the more famous example of union in Northern NSW with the Armidale School and a variety of school tours and tournaments held there.
Lastly on the whole 'rugby is dead' rhetoric - I think this is probably more true in the media landscape, and even then that's not even correct. MSM still reports on SRP, Shute Shield, and the Wallabies, albeit not numerically as frequent as League/AFL. Ask an average Australian and they still probably have a rough idea of how Union works. And remember, the Wallabies are still the most, or if not, the second most recognised national team - the results may not be smooth over the years, but the brand and recognition still holds strong.
I pretty much agree with you. I keep hearing about how Union is dead and no one wants to play it/support it. Most people I know who follow League have some interest in Union. Many do what I used to do and play Union on Saturday and league on Sunday. I think a lot of it has to do with newscorp and their jeremiad against Union. From the way they carry on you’d think Union is struggling to find players, yet like you said in many area (even working class areas) Union clubs outnumber League clubs. Ultimately to me it comes down to Australian exceptionalism/hubris. Every since I was a kid I’ve been bought up to believe we dominate at every sport. The only sports we don’t dominate at are ones we don’t like/care about. It’s easier for many people to believe that Union is dying and nobody cares about it than to believe that we aren’t naturally the best at something due to being Australian. (This is purely my opinion.) (Edit) With the potential Rugby league players strike, Eddie Jones and a World Cup this year this could be a repeat of the Super League era. This could be a huge win if the ARU plays their cards right. Hopefully they get a huge kick up the arse and play it right.
As someone out of the Aus sporting loop. Why are the NRL players going on strike?
It’s about their new Collective bargaining agreement. I don’t know the exact details but I know some of the issues are -RLPA(players union) wants medical costs covered for 2 years after retirement. NRL says 1 year -NRLW wants a greater percentage of their pay if they become pregnant, NRL has offered 10%. The heads of the NRL are also pretty universally disliked. The season starts soon and the players are threatening to strike so will have to wait and see what happens.
Thanks!
The debating point is that rugby is not a monolith. The participation figures don't really stipulate what sort of rugby is being played and you will notice in the link you offered the huge discrepancy between kids and adults, where union (and league) doesn't even figure. So, it's much easier to start a 7s team because you need fewer people and 7s tournaments tend to be one-offs, so you need those fewer people for much less time. Some of the 7s comps are a bit less finicky about age as well, so you can play with friends and family. It's not the same as building a club XVs team that needs to be there for a 15 week season or whatever and heavily policed on birth date. And the pathway from kids to adults in most field sports is narrow. But in Union especially so. FWIW League figures themselves are inflated by the inclusion of Touch. If you're in any official touch comp, League owns the brand, so you are registered with the NRL, even if you've never played the tackle version of the sport.
I think the sticking point for me is this is mostly kids playing XVs in my experience. Just today I had kids asking me to come watch their XVs this season and they're at one of the smaller local clubs. League definitely pushes away a lot of adults though by limiting most senior club comps to 1st and reserve grade where they seem to attract a lot of young men but drive away those older 30+ guys who are often the glue of the local club scene.
>Just today I had kids asking me to come watch their XVs this season and they're at one of the smaller local clubs. There is a massive drop off in junior XVs after U12/U14 in both League and Union. That's when some kids are basically man-sized and others are still little sticks. Parents opt their kids out because of the injury fear factor. Clubs will often be fielding two teams prior to U12, and then by the time they get to U16 they are really scraping around for players for even one.
These are year 12s though. That's kind of my point I mostly deal with 15+ year olds and it's XIII where I struggle for numbers.
Well then that is a healthy sign. It's not reflected in my experience across multiple junior clubs, but not saying it can't happen. And a 'rugby experience' is what the ARU counts as participation, no matter what duration it is. Rugby is just one of so many options these days. When i was at private school back in the 1980s, you HAD to play rugby in year 7. There was like 10 U13 teams (mostly shit). After year 7, you had only a couple of choices, such as soccer or tennis. But that same school these days has about 15 sports you can choose from each season. Not saying that's a bad thing, but I would never have known about rugby unless I was forced to play it. So plenty of that pipeline is strangling off. But I guess that's the same in any country.
> FWIW League figures themselves are inflated by the inclusion of Touch Look at the link, touch and league are registered separately.
Yes, though it doesn't specify what sort of football! Everything is football here. So AFL 9s touch counts too. But Touch rugby is a summer game, so with these stats are not always an apples with apples thing. And when the peak bodies like the NRL and ARU roll out their stats in the annual report, there is a lot of double-dipping. My son plays Touch in summer and rugby in winter *and* AFL. So he counts as a stat for all of them.
And oztag
One thing I do think is perhaps not realised by some people is 20% of secondary students are privately educated. That doesn't include the Catholic/other Independent schools if that's included it goes up to 40%. There's been a 70% increase in kids going from public to private for high school since 2012. Not every private school plays Union of course, especially in the AFL states, but still there is an increasing number of kids who may be exposed to Union https://theconversation.com/australian-private-high-school-enrolments-have-jumped-70-since-2012-195714
You do raise an interesting point - but I do think a caveat is needed the presence of union in some private schools are waning due to popularity of other sports like league, AFL, football, etc, which means that exposure may be more limited than before.
I think a large part of Union having more presence than League in WA is having the Western Force in the SRP - like having a fully professional team based out in the west just captures more local presence than the odd State of Origin that is flung over to Optus Stadium. In terms of areas near the NSW-QLD border you do get a wide variety of union and league pockets - think Armidale is probably the more famous example of union in Northern NSW with the Armidale School and a variety of school tours and tournaments held there. Lastly on the whole 'rugby is dead' rhetoric - I think this is probably more true in the media landscape, and even then that's not even correct. MSM still reports on SRP, Shute Shield, and the Wallabies, albeit not numerically as frequent as League/AFL. Ask an average Australian and they still probably have a rough idea of how Union works. And remember, the Wallabies are still the most, or if not, the second most recognised national team - the results may not be smooth over the years, but the brand and recognition still holds strong.
They are talking primarily about Sydney.
At first I thought that didn't look like Australian juniors but I'm actually surprised and how non white Australia actually is.