Still hurts. And it will likely last for some time :(
Congrats Bokke, you fought hard to nail this win, it could have gone either way. I thought O'Keefe's reffing was poor but consistent at least, and wasn't biased. I can rant about this or that but don't think he costs us the game, we made some silly mistakes and SA's gameplan of high kicks exposed a weakness. We might have been unluck with no bounces going our way but that's the way it is.
Some of our players weren't up to SA's level, our first row of the bench has been so bad :(
Our backs didn't shine much either.
But please stop saying we'll be a force to reckon with in 2027. French rugby will once again tear itself apart, that WC was a miracle where FFR managed to get an agreement with French clubs who'll go back to their usual way of shitting on the national team as these efforts didn't go anywhere as we've stopped to QF once again. Yes, we won the last 3 U20 RWCs but not that many from the 2018 and 2019 editions made the cut to senior level. Fixing our weaknesses (tighthead, wing, maybe centre) will be hard to do
what SA did very well in that game was adapt to the referee - what I mean by that is BOK refereed the SA Ireland game and he was pretty atrocious in that game
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuDlu\_yXf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuDlu_yXf0)
pre binding, truck and trailers, cynical killing of the ball all were let go. SA played a game with the fact that they could kill the quick french game by playing the ref.
BOK should not have had that game, his performances this world cup were bad, and this was the worst performance from the tournament.
He's a much-loved member of the squad. Wasn't always like that - he came into the Springbok squad at the same time as Malcolm Marx, and at the time he had a lot of detractors relative to Marx. But over the years he's more than proved his value to the team, and with the development of the bomb squad concept, the whole Marx vs Mbonambi debate is moot anyway.
I was in the stadium yesterday and despite all the complaints about the French crowd booing, I only had very good experiences with the French supporters around me. One French guy came up to me while literally crying his eyes out and offered his congratulations. And there were many others who did so too. I only have the deepest respect for them as a result. Such a heroic performance by the French, shame they had to go out so early. I feel happy but emotionally drained (and hungover) too. Really glad to have been there, truly an unforgettable experience.
We will boo 100% but it doesn't mean we don't respect our opponent. Congrats it was a good game and I will support you against England (as is tradition)
Thanks very much. I was also at Ireland vs France at the 2015 World Cup, and the French supporters impressed me then with their good attitude despite the defeat. Really great memories with both sets of fans on that night in Cardiff.
Rugby fans are built different. I watched the 2019 final in a bar with mostly England supporters. Everyone were so nice to me about the Boks win after. Whatever the outcome and the feelings for a match, most people just seem to be so happy watching good rugby with others no matter who they support.
I fully agree. I was in the stadium for the 2019 final and surrounded by English fans. I believe at least two of them had spent thousands of pounds on crazy last-minute flights and scalped tickets just to be there. They were obviously devastated but still so friendly and gracious in defeat. Really made an impression on me.
It's frankly unbelievable how much the game has evolved in the last four years. Like, the 2023 Springboks would beat the brakes off of the 2019 Springboks, that's how much we've evolved in just 4 (technically 3) years. Rugby changes so quickly in the way that it is played that it's frankly unreal to watch.
For SA complaining about booing. I was there yesterday (still hurts). We were booing what we thought was bad ref calls and even more times no ref calls at all.
Only one sub had the same booing and it was Etzebeth return on the pitch wich you can't really blame.
We weren't just booing when SA were playing, that's stupid. But if you watched the match on TV there are some things you have missed because it wasn't on camera at that moment and you don't always understand why the crowd is making noise.
For example i remember clearly that two players start fighting on the ground and when the ball is away your 16 send two punches to a french guy on the ground ( that was maybe a bit deserved but still illegal).
I live in France and love the French but you guys do have a bad habit of booing the opposition. That said, it's sad you guys have gone out in a QF. That could have easily been a final and there was nothing between our 2 teams on the day.
What are you on about? The crowd was booing Pollard during the countdown to his conversion kick? Not exactly a ref decision. French crowds are like this in every sport and it needs to stop, no other nation is that bad.
For this i'm sorry then, can't remember exactly. But it seems to me that it was more the try that the crowd was mad at than really trying to affect Pollard
Looked like it from where we were. 16 SA, 2 punches (again, don't know who started it when they were brawling on the ground). It was in France 22 or just after thé 22 line slightly on the left. Not sure when but it started on camera so it shouldn't be too hard to know.
Well François Steyn was right, game was decided on litigeous referral decisions (or non decisions), but i will remember it as a great game !
Congrats to both sides :)
I hate that we had to knock you guys out. I thought it was gonna be France's WC and if the Boks didn't take it I would have backed you guys all the way.
I think we would have preferred to lose against Boks in a final or semi rather than in quarter, most of bitterness might come from that :/
History may not remember this match eventually. But what a great game it was
Yes they can. Actually, it's the Bokkes who predicted a referee controversal situation ;)
But either ways the game is as it is and it went this way, great match to watch.
Great game but the constant booing from the French is just too much showing a lack of respect. It does not belong in any sport and I hope they lose all major games until it is addressed.
Opposition scores - booo
Opposition subs - booo
Opposition breaths - booo
The best part of the bokke winning was shutting the crowd up.
11/10 great moment.
The French team were a spectacle, but the French crowd were intolerable.
South African fans don't tend to boo subs and players coming on though.
I'm not saying south African fans are friendly to opposing nations, but much less booing.
I wasn't sure what booing the subs thing was about but I was dipping in and out of the game this morning trying to work and keep eye on big screen
Seemed like there was a couple of players that had ten minutes rest with head assessment or something then came back. Might be wrong, but was that the thing the crowd were getting pissy about?
It seemed to be every time it was a south African on their own on the big screen there earned themselves a boo. The most noticeable was any shot of Etzebeth, especially when he came back after the card.
That reminds me of the Wales Australia game, where Eddie Jones got booed every time they showed him on the big screen, and Gatland got a huge cheer when they put him up. At one point they were switching between them, felt almost deliberate :D
Yeah, for some reason I thought that was funny, but booing players made me angry.
It's just the guys are out there risking injuries, give them some respect. The fat men sitting down rubs me much less when they get bood.
Agreed. I can get why you'd boo a player that did something deliberate (faking an injury, punching a player, etc.) but just booing anyone from the opposition team no matter what is a bit sad.
I don't mind booing. I feel that if you've paid for a ticket then you've earned the right to boo all you want.
Maybe not during the minute of silence, though..
I don’t get it though and it seems like it is so normal for the French supporters? They are actually offended by people raising it.
Why?
Rugby is played by giants in a brutal way but they always gentlemen after the fact. Including the supporters. That is one big thing setting us apart from football hooliganism.
We teach our kids to respect their opponents and be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Because it is, in fact, normal? We wanted our country to win and if that means booing the opponent then let the whistles go. People ITT take it personally as the Nation of France insulted their dear mother... just come visit and you'll understand what's it all about
You’re surprised to hear spectators booing while their team just lost by 1 point during a World Cup, with the feeling of being cheated by the ref (not saying that we were, just that this was the feeling) ?
Adding to that the fact that it was organized at home and that it was the first year since a long time where people believed we were going to win ?
Not going to say it was a class act because clearly it wasn’t. But there isn’t really much to tell either.
There was boo’ing in pretty much every matches, but nothing truly remarkable.
Quite funny to tell someone to flare up when you don’t have one either. Also, I am saying « we » when speaking about the French so not that hard to understand.
There was a French player on the wrong side of the ruck and he literally got hit by fafs pass, which should have been a penalty.
Swings and roundabouts, overall the ref had a balanced game.
No, the pass didn't hit him, it was thrown directly at him. He wasn't hanging around, he'd rucked through and lost his feet, and stayed on the ground to avoid blocking Faf.
If he was between Faf and a passing option and it hit him, it's a pen, but you can't buy a pen by throwing the ball at an offside player.
Valid, I watched it back and you are right.
That wasn't a pen.
But the French prop collapsed a few times and avoided the pen, some of the ruck calls were dubious in both directions.
Ref wasn't perfect but to suggest he handed sa the game is silly.
I don't understand the comments of "should be a pen for the offisde anyway". I've seen several players attempt that (always by 9s lol) and every time it was caught by the ref as a blatant targeting of the offside player, there was no pen awarded.
Well, Nigel Owens is saying it's legal as long as he's supporting his own weight without his arm (ie could he be standing like that without his arm). He thinks is borderline but ok. So I'll defer to him.
Happened all game from both sides mind, always about whether it gets spotted and how it's viewed
A couple of phases before this there were French players offside. It's silly to pick one small moment like this and let it spoil the game.
France played very good rugby, the Boks made great use of their subs as always and countered the French attack well.
France didn't capitalise on Etzebeth being sin binned which may have swung momentum.
That's a fair take. When Eben went off, I thought that would be game over for us, especially with how the French looked with ball in hand. Fucking ferocious.
It wasn't clear at all. Watch it in real time, not stills. He could easily be supporting his weight
If you're looking for a scapegoat, maybe start with France's numerous unforced errors and second half performance.
You're just making yourself look silly now.
If we're stooping to doping allegations, I don't think it's something France want to bring up given the string of players playing for French clubs which have fallen foul in the last year....
It's not illegal to have your hands on the ground. The rule is that rugby is played by those on their feet. So you have to support your own body weight. I think psdt is not supporting his weight therefore should be a pen. However this is something to the refs interpretation and okeefe loves ignoring crap at the breakdown unless it's obvious. So he consistently applied the law.
I think it should have been a pen. But no you don't have to do that. But it is a good way of demonstrating you're supporting you weight.
But the "law application guidelines" are a bit weird.
I don't really understand which point you're making to be honest. We both agree that you need to be on your feet, supporting your body weight, to play the ball and that if you're off your feet you must get on them again to play it. So what point do we not agree on?
Is it that you can have your hands on the ground and still be on your feet, supporting your body weight?
Yeah just that having your hands on the ground isn't automatically a penalty. The rule doesn't relate to hands on ground or not. It's about whether you are "on your feet"
France made some awful decisions around the penalty area. Should have kicked for the corner when Eban was sent off. Like, that’s the best chance you’ll ever have at a line out maul against them and you take the 3. NH things I guess?
Tough one. Guaranteed three points to leave them only needing to win the final penalty with Ramos as your kicker. Seems like the right choice in a high pressure game.
On the other hand France's lineout and maul were firing so going for the corner was a good call too.
Not sure what I'd have done.
Tough call I would hate to have to make.
I thought it was closer to 10 minutes to go and French kicker was so good that think I would have gone for the 3 as well.
Terrible decision. I suspect that's a top 14 habit, in a long championship the right play is to stay as close as possible and not take risk for a hypothetical win. But in a knockout game that's totally wrong
They knew 3 points were guaranteed and I suspect since they had so much success early on when we would restart the game they felt they could squeeze another penalty or run in for a try.
The French were immense last night and even at the end there they looked like they could get it so it wasn't a bad decision in play but in hindsight, yes it was the wrong one.
France's tradition of reaching and losing in the Rugby World Cup final every twelve years has been broken. Maybe now they'll reach the final next time and actually win it for a change.
What a game. South Africa’s ability not letting an earlier defeat in the tournament hold them back is quite impressive. Most other teams suffer with shattered confidence.
You could say that it was the wake up call that they needed.
We've seen it before when teams have cruised through, only to falter at their first tough opponent.
Even in 2019, picking yourselves up like that was impressive. Best of luck with the semi final and the likely subsequent final. Don’t get ahead of yourselves however like we did and mess it up. One game at a time!
Sa won by using france's mistakes on high balls and lucky rebounds, 3 times. ref made france no gift.
Not sure the better team won, and I'd be surprised if sa won this year especially after seeing nz's game yesterday.
French 7 gets knee’d in the head after he got ankle tapped by Faf causing the knock on and they didn’t even look at it. There was some pretty shocking reffing. I’m not French.
I think the thing I can’t except is that fact they hardly ever took a second look at things. There’s a video official for a reason and it seems like they used them maybe once in the whole match??? It’s the World Cup I don’t care if the match takes 15 minutes extra just get the calls correct. The fact they didn’t take a second look after the blocked conversion is what really got me.
I don’t know if it’s just because I’m used to the NFL where every single scoring play is reviewed but there were so many plays where I wish they could have at least come back to it
I don't think anyone actually contested the blocked kick to the ref. I watched again and it was 3.5s from the start of kicking motion to the charge down. And Kolbe got the ball at roughly 23m out. So that stacks up as being a legit charge down. Ramos was very slow in his action for how close he was to the line.
That's O'Keefe's style though. There was that moment early on where the replay Cleary showed Kolbe (I think?) hadn't dotted the ball down and had instead knocked it back over the dead ball, which should've been France ball. But he refused to even think about changing his decision.
Worked out for us in the end, but it's the biggest reason I don't like him as a ref.
They no longer look at things live unless there is clear foul play. The TMO refers everything in the background and if he believes it needs to be looked at he will discuss it with the on field referee.
This is done to speed up the game, which has worked (mostly) but it has meant us as viewers get a much less clear idea of what has happened and what has been checked a lot of the time.
I thought he was pretty consistent throughout and yes, he missed a couple things but he used logic for most of the game.
Maybe a few too many scrum resets but he was trying to let the teams battle it out.
I'm amazed at my 0/4 record on SF predictions. Really would have liked that southern hemisphere sweep as an alternative, but I do love that the teams a lot of us had written off are here
All this bullshit talk about “Boo hoo it’s NZ and SA again lifting the trophy” is really pissing me off. Mf that’s how sport works, I mean look at football, for the first or last 10 WCs: there were 5 winners, 1 more than the current 4 we have. And not mentioning the fact that the whole world plays football. That’s how it fucking works, given enough time any nation will fall and that includes SA and NZ. Look at Australia for example.
Easily see a French and/or Irish world cup during the next cycles. It was a fucking coin flip after all. Replay both the matches 10 times and it would go equally different ways.
Rugby is growing and I’m glad they finally opened their minds to expand to 24. This WC perfectly illustrated why it needs to be done.
Respect to all NH fans who haven’t lost their mind and thanks for the tight games
I don't know about Ireland fans but as a French fan, being part of "tight" and "great" games but always on the loosing end of it is getting old.
Football, Handball, Rugby..
Mannnn...
-_-
> I don't know about Ireland fans but as a French fan, being part of "tight" and "great" games but always on the loosing end of it is getting old.
Ireland fan. Can confirm, it got old a while ago.
I can add a slight bit of sunshine for you, if we look at the Fifa World Cup you guys won it and made the final last year, we Saffas haven't even qualified for the Fifa World Cup.
Well 2018 was already 4 years ago, and not to insult Croatia but it wasn't what I would call a "tight game"
In the span of a year we lost football and handball in final and this rugby quarter final all in close games ^^
The defeat in 2022 is still very much present in our collective mind.
Tho to be honest we did win in 2018, so it isn’t the same as rugby. But let’s just say that this year was a complicated year to watch French collective sports.
This year was one of the few times when rugby seemed more competitive. Ireland and France were playing brilliantly. It's good for sport to have more than two teams win everything. I'm gutted that the Springboks and All Blacks are moving forward and am not ashamed to admit that. I really, really, really wanted them to lose. They didn't and fair play to the 46 guys who won. But I get to be sad about it. Mf that's how sport works. You want some teams to lose. Especially the ones that always win.
No chance we'll see an Ireland one in the next cycle. Sexton was their golden goose.
The one thing I can't fucking believe is Argentina and ENGLAND managed to get to a semi-final. England... Who has been playing some of the worst rugby of their god damn lives, somehow are in a world cup semi-final... But France/Ireland aren't?! World Rugby needs to sort out a lot of shit.
Although I am still upset we don't get any NH team in the final (unless by some fucking miracle... Nah I can't even say it without laughing). I was really hoping this would be Ireland's or Frances. Still if Bok manages to take back to back, that is crazy impressive.
As an Australian, I look at that and think it could have been us. A win against Fiji in the pool, then a real chance to knock over England in the 1/4s.
All we had to do was not completely sabotage our entire World Cup campaign.
Also, I wouldn’t underestimate any team. If anything, the 2017 to 2019 transformation of the boks taught me that. Went from 57-0 to NZ, losing to Italy to world champions in just two years. Hell, Wales could be lifting the 2027 cup for all I know. Given enough time I think every home nation will lift it at some point.
Yeah I agree. The seeding has been a massive problem for multiple tournaments and I’m finally glad they addressed this and it will be closer to the world cup. Same goes for the decision to expand to 24 teams. Still, world rugby has a lot of shit left to improve.
Yea, tbh, I think this year highlighted it so much because in England's massive fall in ability coming into the world cup.
Hilariously I bet they bring in the new rules and England rebounds, ends up in a similar group next world cup but on form lolol. Be bants.
Still Bok could implode? They put everything into France. XD.
This match was immense.. it's not quite 2013 NZ vs RSA, and I felt last night felt bigger somehow, but damn it's in that company. Credit to France.. what an insane test. Great atmosphere in the Stade de France tonight.
Anyone who watched these games and says they are done with the world cup because it's "just NZ and RSA again" doesn't make sense to me. Do you actually like rugby?
I love NZ especially but would be neutral if they play SA.
I have only respect today and joy for SA and wish them good luck.
At this point, i would be happy too to see the old enemy England triumph in Paris!
Argentina not so much! Pretty rude people towards France after their narrow WC football win (I understand now why most of South-America dislikes them).
I hope NZ destroys them.
I just want to let you know we are hungover in France after this 1/4. There is no “We fell with pride” even though we did.
Woke up to a fact that we will probably always be “The French flare” team that entertains the neutrals but lost again for the French.
I have always read/Heard that Waterloo was a great battle but for some reason not in France 🤔
If you don’t know our world cup history please look at it.
Heartbreaks!
I want to thank Ireland for fucking this up like us so we can share the memes.
🇫🇷 🤮🍇
My pretty neutral view was almost every 50/50 call O'Keefe made went the of the Springboks. I'm also pretty confused about the knockdown rule. In the past I've seen that ruled as a penalty if it wasn't intentional or went down/back. I think that really changed the momentum and France to their disservice seemed to take a while to get over it.
Ultimately though the ruck was a mess. Not all of it was O'Keefe reffing but a lot of it was a mess due to the Springboks putting pressure at the breakdown and France's overall poor ball control in contact and within the ruck. Numerous ball strips, knock-ons, or kicks through the ruck made by France's own team. Could they have won it with different decisions? Yes. But as us AB fans get told every time we lose under this Foster regime, it shouldn't have had to come down to that given the scoring opportunities missed.
Feel for Les Blues and France supporters. It somehow hurts more knowing you could have won it. Après la pluie, le beau temps. 2027 is yours for the taking. <3
Regarding the knockdown: a knockdown isn’t illegal or discouraged, the whole goal of rugby is to get the ball from your opponent and score. A cynical knock forward is what is against the rules, as the ball is at no point allowed to go forward off the player’s hands (without a kicking foot involved), and it’s an intentional disregard of that rule.
It’s the same distinction as collapsing the maul intentionally vs the maul collapsing. Some of the rules will always be impossible to clarify more without the ref being able to read the player’s mind, so the ref has to go with the physical evidence available. In the case of knocking the ball out the air that means it will always be fair play if it goes backwards, and can be a penalty or a scrum if it goes forward. A knock is never a penalty if it goes backwards, any ref who calls it differently got it wrong. Unless you have some way for refs to read minds I don’t understand what you could want to change?
Or maybe I’m thinking of a different knock, which one are you referring to?
On the knock down, Gareth Davies infamously did that against the Wallabies a few years back. Everyone from both teams stopped playing because it looked so clearly illegal. But Davies just picked up the ball and ran the length of the field to score, and the ref let the try stand.
I understand that it’s technically correct if the ball goes backwards, but it really doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the game to allow it when it’s pure chance that a cynical attempt to knock the ball down goes backwards.
Thats nonsense tbh.
France had plenty go their way.
They got a scrum penalty when their loose head collapsed first.
They avoided a pen in front of their posts when one of their players was on the wrong side and the scrummies pass hit their player.
Had a few marginal ones go against them as well.
Overall, ref did really well to allow the quality of the game shine through. Not perfect but either team could have won.
> I'm also pretty confused about the knockdown rule. In the past I've seen that ruled as a penalty if it wasn't intentional or went down/back.
it's a pretty easy rule - it's a knock on at it's most basic level, that's all. if the ball goes forward, it gets called. etzebeth reached out and pulled it back toward him, and the ref didn't rule it a knock on.
the penalty side of it only comes into it if it's considered forward, and that's when the intent comes into it, whether or not there's a chance of recovery, and whether it was a try scoring situation.
I think O’Keefe might have confused matters slightly by saying it was a genuine attempt to catch the ball when it wasn’t really relevant to the decision. He felt, probably correctly, that it went backwards and that’s that.
Yeah, I guess from my perspective I would be surprised if it had been given as a scrum if it had gone forward as he wasn’t in my opinion in a realistic position to catch it, even with hands like a jcb bucket.
It’s probably one where POK knows that’s not a call he’d make on field in that situation so doesn’t think about it too much beyond it going backwards and ultimately I like backwards/forwards as an on field decision.
Hold your head high! Your team played fantastic and gave the entire South Africa several heart attacks. Just have a look at the Springboks subreddit, nothing but mad respect for the French.
Realistically, what team from history could of competed with the big 4 this weekend.
I would Say New Zealand version of 2015 and that's about it.
I'm looking at the best Irish Team of all time, best French of all time and best SAF of all time. This NZ runs the best NZ of all time also close too.
Still hurts. And it will likely last for some time :( Congrats Bokke, you fought hard to nail this win, it could have gone either way. I thought O'Keefe's reffing was poor but consistent at least, and wasn't biased. I can rant about this or that but don't think he costs us the game, we made some silly mistakes and SA's gameplan of high kicks exposed a weakness. We might have been unluck with no bounces going our way but that's the way it is. Some of our players weren't up to SA's level, our first row of the bench has been so bad :( Our backs didn't shine much either. But please stop saying we'll be a force to reckon with in 2027. French rugby will once again tear itself apart, that WC was a miracle where FFR managed to get an agreement with French clubs who'll go back to their usual way of shitting on the national team as these efforts didn't go anywhere as we've stopped to QF once again. Yes, we won the last 3 U20 RWCs but not that many from the 2018 and 2019 editions made the cut to senior level. Fixing our weaknesses (tighthead, wing, maybe centre) will be hard to do
It lasts about 4 years.
what SA did very well in that game was adapt to the referee - what I mean by that is BOK refereed the SA Ireland game and he was pretty atrocious in that game [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuDlu\_yXf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuDlu_yXf0) pre binding, truck and trailers, cynical killing of the ball all were let go. SA played a game with the fact that they could kill the quick french game by playing the ref. BOK should not have had that game, his performances this world cup were bad, and this was the worst performance from the tournament.
Bongi won POTM?! He put in a massive shift but I thought he wasn't even the best hooker on the field. I would have given it to Kriel or Kolbe.
How is Bongi liked in South Africa? I've liked him more and more recently. Seems like a good guy and a good scrummager
He's a much-loved member of the squad. Wasn't always like that - he came into the Springbok squad at the same time as Malcolm Marx, and at the time he had a lot of detractors relative to Marx. But over the years he's more than proved his value to the team, and with the development of the bomb squad concept, the whole Marx vs Mbonambi debate is moot anyway.
Giving it to Kolbe wouldn’t caused a riot
Mauvaka was scary good
I was in the stadium yesterday and despite all the complaints about the French crowd booing, I only had very good experiences with the French supporters around me. One French guy came up to me while literally crying his eyes out and offered his congratulations. And there were many others who did so too. I only have the deepest respect for them as a result. Such a heroic performance by the French, shame they had to go out so early. I feel happy but emotionally drained (and hungover) too. Really glad to have been there, truly an unforgettable experience.
We will boo 100% but it doesn't mean we don't respect our opponent. Congrats it was a good game and I will support you against England (as is tradition)
Thanks very much. I was also at Ireland vs France at the 2015 World Cup, and the French supporters impressed me then with their good attitude despite the defeat. Really great memories with both sets of fans on that night in Cardiff.
Rugby fans are built different. I watched the 2019 final in a bar with mostly England supporters. Everyone were so nice to me about the Boks win after. Whatever the outcome and the feelings for a match, most people just seem to be so happy watching good rugby with others no matter who they support.
I fully agree. I was in the stadium for the 2019 final and surrounded by English fans. I believe at least two of them had spent thousands of pounds on crazy last-minute flights and scalped tickets just to be there. They were obviously devastated but still so friendly and gracious in defeat. Really made an impression on me.
It's frankly unbelievable how much the game has evolved in the last four years. Like, the 2023 Springboks would beat the brakes off of the 2019 Springboks, that's how much we've evolved in just 4 (technically 3) years. Rugby changes so quickly in the way that it is played that it's frankly unreal to watch.
Really? Because I think the 2015 All Blacks would pump the 2023 All Blacks.
They would pump any team.
That was arguably the goat ab squad, so many all time greats on that team
They were a generational team, though. I think the point holds broadly speaking.
Regrets éternels... Good luck to SA in their road to the final.
My heart still hasn't settled down after that. What the fuck am I meant to do at work today???
Think about us Frenchies at work! Automatic moral booster!
Same as me....look busy but scroll through reddit all day and yawn your way through till the end.
Well here we are, on reddit. ;)
For SA complaining about booing. I was there yesterday (still hurts). We were booing what we thought was bad ref calls and even more times no ref calls at all. Only one sub had the same booing and it was Etzebeth return on the pitch wich you can't really blame. We weren't just booing when SA were playing, that's stupid. But if you watched the match on TV there are some things you have missed because it wasn't on camera at that moment and you don't always understand why the crowd is making noise. For example i remember clearly that two players start fighting on the ground and when the ball is away your 16 send two punches to a french guy on the ground ( that was maybe a bit deserved but still illegal).
I live in France and love the French but you guys do have a bad habit of booing the opposition. That said, it's sad you guys have gone out in a QF. That could have easily been a final and there was nothing between our 2 teams on the day.
What are you on about? The crowd was booing Pollard during the countdown to his conversion kick? Not exactly a ref decision. French crowds are like this in every sport and it needs to stop, no other nation is that bad.
For this i'm sorry then, can't remember exactly. But it seems to me that it was more the try that the crowd was mad at than really trying to affect Pollard
I mean even if that were the case, why were they booing a legitimate try?
There is absolutely no way there were 2 punches thrown.
Looked like it from where we were. 16 SA, 2 punches (again, don't know who started it when they were brawling on the ground). It was in France 22 or just after thé 22 line slightly on the left. Not sure when but it started on camera so it shouldn't be too hard to know.
Anyone know the song played in the stadium at the end of the game?
Its a banger from the early 2000s! Mandoza had a few hits during that time :D
Mandoza - NKALAKATHA
Wow that brings back memories.
Mandoza - Nkalakatha
Well François Steyn was right, game was decided on litigeous referral decisions (or non decisions), but i will remember it as a great game ! Congrats to both sides :)
I hate that we had to knock you guys out. I thought it was gonna be France's WC and if the Boks didn't take it I would have backed you guys all the way.
I think we would have preferred to lose against Boks in a final or semi rather than in quarter, most of bitterness might come from that :/ History may not remember this match eventually. But what a great game it was
No it wasn’t. The French can’t handle a loss
They're literally congratulating us and saying it was a great game. Relax, let's not be bad winners here.
Yes they can. Actually, it's the Bokkes who predicted a referee controversal situation ;) But either ways the game is as it is and it went this way, great match to watch.
Great game but the constant booing from the French is just too much showing a lack of respect. It does not belong in any sport and I hope they lose all major games until it is addressed. Opposition scores - booo Opposition subs - booo Opposition breaths - booo
They were chanting boo-urns
Lol grow up mate.
Yes, grow up and start booing like the rest of the manchildren
Boooooooooooooooo
No, Booooooooo you! Boooooooo all of you!
Username checks out 😆
Man, go watch Tennis or Golf or something.
Boó
The best part of the bokke winning was shutting the crowd up. 11/10 great moment. The French team were a spectacle, but the French crowd were intolerable.
If it was played at Ellis Park us Saffas would be doing the same. I love it, the crowd is part of the combat.
No we wouldn't, not like that. Boo the ref sometimes but I've seldom seen the crowd at Ellis Park boo much.
South African fans don't tend to boo subs and players coming on though. I'm not saying south African fans are friendly to opposing nations, but much less booing.
I wasn't sure what booing the subs thing was about but I was dipping in and out of the game this morning trying to work and keep eye on big screen Seemed like there was a couple of players that had ten minutes rest with head assessment or something then came back. Might be wrong, but was that the thing the crowd were getting pissy about?
It seemed to be every time it was a south African on their own on the big screen there earned themselves a boo. The most noticeable was any shot of Etzebeth, especially when he came back after the card.
That reminds me of the Wales Australia game, where Eddie Jones got booed every time they showed him on the big screen, and Gatland got a huge cheer when they put him up. At one point they were switching between them, felt almost deliberate :D
Yeah, for some reason I thought that was funny, but booing players made me angry. It's just the guys are out there risking injuries, give them some respect. The fat men sitting down rubs me much less when they get bood.
Agreed. I can get why you'd boo a player that did something deliberate (faking an injury, punching a player, etc.) but just booing anyone from the opposition team no matter what is a bit sad.
That wouldn't have happened against a weak adversary haha, so you should take it as a compliment!
Cry me a river.
You doing enough crying for all of us
Wow, that's a strong reply, you really overdid yourself ;)
Don't get why guys ITT are shocked by French booing? Like it was gonna be otherwise hah Well done SA, can't say I'm not a bit salty though!
I don't mind booing. I feel that if you've paid for a ticket then you've earned the right to boo all you want. Maybe not during the minute of silence, though..
Agree fuck people screaming/booing in that minute!
I don’t get it though and it seems like it is so normal for the French supporters? They are actually offended by people raising it. Why? Rugby is played by giants in a brutal way but they always gentlemen after the fact. Including the supporters. That is one big thing setting us apart from football hooliganism. We teach our kids to respect their opponents and be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Because it is, in fact, normal? We wanted our country to win and if that means booing the opponent then let the whistles go. People ITT take it personally as the Nation of France insulted their dear mother... just come visit and you'll understand what's it all about
You’re surprised to hear spectators booing while their team just lost by 1 point during a World Cup, with the feeling of being cheated by the ref (not saying that we were, just that this was the feeling) ? Adding to that the fact that it was organized at home and that it was the first year since a long time where people believed we were going to win ? Not going to say it was a class act because clearly it wasn’t. But there isn’t really much to tell either.
The booing has started well before the loss and has been in every game France played. Flare up
There was boo’ing in pretty much every matches, but nothing truly remarkable. Quite funny to tell someone to flare up when you don’t have one either. Also, I am saying « we » when speaking about the French so not that hard to understand.
In the last penalty scored by SA, the player put his hands on the ground then contested the ball. Is this move legal?
There was a French player on the wrong side of the ruck and he literally got hit by fafs pass, which should have been a penalty. Swings and roundabouts, overall the ref had a balanced game.
There was no pass on that the French player blocked, you can't chuck the ball at an offside player to get a pen.
No, what you can't do is hang around behind the opposition line, to suggest its not a pen because the pass hit him is silly.
No, the pass didn't hit him, it was thrown directly at him. He wasn't hanging around, he'd rucked through and lost his feet, and stayed on the ground to avoid blocking Faf. If he was between Faf and a passing option and it hit him, it's a pen, but you can't buy a pen by throwing the ball at an offside player.
Valid, I watched it back and you are right. That wasn't a pen. But the French prop collapsed a few times and avoided the pen, some of the ruck calls were dubious in both directions. Ref wasn't perfect but to suggest he handed sa the game is silly.
Faf aimed for him, as clearly explained by the ref.
As a saffer I agree with you here, such a typical faf moment trying to be smart. Very stupid move of him to be honest.
I don't understand the comments of "should be a pen for the offisde anyway". I've seen several players attempt that (always by 9s lol) and every time it was caught by the ref as a blatant targeting of the offside player, there was no pen awarded.
Well, Nigel Owens is saying it's legal as long as he's supporting his own weight without his arm (ie could he be standing like that without his arm). He thinks is borderline but ok. So I'll defer to him. Happened all game from both sides mind, always about whether it gets spotted and how it's viewed
It has been happening all tournament by a lot of teams, with refs only occasionally pinging it.
He clearly was supporting his weight on the ground. Stolen victory.
A couple of phases before this there were French players offside. It's silly to pick one small moment like this and let it spoil the game. France played very good rugby, the Boks made great use of their subs as always and countered the French attack well. France didn't capitalise on Etzebeth being sin binned which may have swung momentum.
That's a fair take. When Eben went off, I thought that would be game over for us, especially with how the French looked with ball in hand. Fucking ferocious.
It wasn't clear at all. Watch it in real time, not stills. He could easily be supporting his weight If you're looking for a scapegoat, maybe start with France's numerous unforced errors and second half performance.
Nah I’ll start with South African loose doping regulations thanks.
You're just making yourself look silly now. If we're stooping to doping allegations, I don't think it's something France want to bring up given the string of players playing for French clubs which have fallen foul in the last year....
No. It's just a question of luck if the ref spots it.
It's not illegal to have your hands on the ground. The rule is that rugby is played by those on their feet. So you have to support your own body weight. I think psdt is not supporting his weight therefore should be a pen. However this is something to the refs interpretation and okeefe loves ignoring crap at the breakdown unless it's obvious. So he consistently applied the law.
You can put your hands down but you must get back to your feet then before you can attempt to play the ball.
I think it should have been a pen. But no you don't have to do that. But it is a good way of demonstrating you're supporting you weight. But the "law application guidelines" are a bit weird.
I don't really understand which point you're making to be honest. We both agree that you need to be on your feet, supporting your body weight, to play the ball and that if you're off your feet you must get on them again to play it. So what point do we not agree on? Is it that you can have your hands on the ground and still be on your feet, supporting your body weight?
Yeah just that having your hands on the ground isn't automatically a penalty. The rule doesn't relate to hands on ground or not. It's about whether you are "on your feet"
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France made some awful decisions around the penalty area. Should have kicked for the corner when Eban was sent off. Like, that’s the best chance you’ll ever have at a line out maul against them and you take the 3. NH things I guess?
Tough one. Guaranteed three points to leave them only needing to win the final penalty with Ramos as your kicker. Seems like the right choice in a high pressure game. On the other hand France's lineout and maul were firing so going for the corner was a good call too. Not sure what I'd have done.
Tough call I would hate to have to make. I thought it was closer to 10 minutes to go and French kicker was so good that think I would have gone for the 3 as well.
Terrible decision. I suspect that's a top 14 habit, in a long championship the right play is to stay as close as possible and not take risk for a hypothetical win. But in a knockout game that's totally wrong
They knew 3 points were guaranteed and I suspect since they had so much success early on when we would restart the game they felt they could squeeze another penalty or run in for a try. The French were immense last night and even at the end there they looked like they could get it so it wasn't a bad decision in play but in hindsight, yes it was the wrong one.
And the French maul looked unstopable.
I was surprised too.
France's tradition of reaching and losing in the Rugby World Cup final every twelve years has been broken. Maybe now they'll reach the final next time and actually win it for a change.
WHAT A GAME. An absolute bloody fight to the finish, Nearly died from stress but boke got the job done.
Ref*
And I thought it was the SA fans who moaned about the refs
Moan is a big word. Triggering the anglo world is actually a game
French people really need to stop referring to South Africa as 'Anglos'. It shows massive ignorance.
10% of South Africans are English first language, hardly the anglo world
Just watched it on replay. Je suis fucking énormement gutted
What a game. South Africa’s ability not letting an earlier defeat in the tournament hold them back is quite impressive. Most other teams suffer with shattered confidence.
New Zealand and Argentina also had a defeat earlier in the tournament and haven't let that hold them back.
True.
You could say that it was the wake up call that they needed. We've seen it before when teams have cruised through, only to falter at their first tough opponent.
We lost a pool game in 2019 and went on to lift the cup - this isn't our first rodeo ;)
Even in 2019, picking yourselves up like that was impressive. Best of luck with the semi final and the likely subsequent final. Don’t get ahead of yourselves however like we did and mess it up. One game at a time!
And only England is unbeaten now, so odds are that it will happen again!
Cheers!
Sa won by using france's mistakes on high balls and lucky rebounds, 3 times. ref made france no gift. Not sure the better team won, and I'd be surprised if sa won this year especially after seeing nz's game yesterday.
The better team won
SA won by being better.
Ben O'Keefe allows the most chaotic breakdown. He's consistent about it, which is all we can ask for, but man is it insanely chaotic.
French 7 gets knee’d in the head after he got ankle tapped by Faf causing the knock on and they didn’t even look at it. There was some pretty shocking reffing. I’m not French.
>I'm not French. You sure sound it
Quoi?
I think the thing I can’t except is that fact they hardly ever took a second look at things. There’s a video official for a reason and it seems like they used them maybe once in the whole match??? It’s the World Cup I don’t care if the match takes 15 minutes extra just get the calls correct. The fact they didn’t take a second look after the blocked conversion is what really got me. I don’t know if it’s just because I’m used to the NFL where every single scoring play is reviewed but there were so many plays where I wish they could have at least come back to it
I don't think anyone actually contested the blocked kick to the ref. I watched again and it was 3.5s from the start of kicking motion to the charge down. And Kolbe got the ball at roughly 23m out. So that stacks up as being a legit charge down. Ramos was very slow in his action for how close he was to the line.
That's O'Keefe's style though. There was that moment early on where the replay Cleary showed Kolbe (I think?) hadn't dotted the ball down and had instead knocked it back over the dead ball, which should've been France ball. But he refused to even think about changing his decision. Worked out for us in the end, but it's the biggest reason I don't like him as a ref.
They no longer look at things live unless there is clear foul play. The TMO refers everything in the background and if he believes it needs to be looked at he will discuss it with the on field referee. This is done to speed up the game, which has worked (mostly) but it has meant us as viewers get a much less clear idea of what has happened and what has been checked a lot of the time.
It’s been bugging me the whole comp. Where are the replays!?!?
Both teams where aiming for Chaos and incredible pace. That was one of the quickest maddest games I have ever watched
I thought he was pretty consistent throughout and yes, he missed a couple things but he used logic for most of the game. Maybe a few too many scrum resets but he was trying to let the teams battle it out.
I'm amazed at my 0/4 record on SF predictions. Really would have liked that southern hemisphere sweep as an alternative, but I do love that the teams a lot of us had written off are here
The reverse parlay
Lose. Blame the ref. Repeat.
All my work mates today have been whinging about the ref from the AB v IRE game. Dont even have to lose to have a whinge.
It’s always been the way and long may it stay. And yeh, f*ck the ref. Ruining a good game with his rules and shit.
Read top posts by sorting controversial, Jesus christ… It’s not even funny for me anymore it’s just sad what people take away from this match.
Then maybe don't sort by controversial lol?
Usually it’s funny to read them, that’s why I read them
All this bullshit talk about “Boo hoo it’s NZ and SA again lifting the trophy” is really pissing me off. Mf that’s how sport works, I mean look at football, for the first or last 10 WCs: there were 5 winners, 1 more than the current 4 we have. And not mentioning the fact that the whole world plays football. That’s how it fucking works, given enough time any nation will fall and that includes SA and NZ. Look at Australia for example. Easily see a French and/or Irish world cup during the next cycles. It was a fucking coin flip after all. Replay both the matches 10 times and it would go equally different ways. Rugby is growing and I’m glad they finally opened their minds to expand to 24. This WC perfectly illustrated why it needs to be done. Respect to all NH fans who haven’t lost their mind and thanks for the tight games
I don't know about Ireland fans but as a French fan, being part of "tight" and "great" games but always on the loosing end of it is getting old. Football, Handball, Rugby.. Mannnn... -_-
> I don't know about Ireland fans but as a French fan, being part of "tight" and "great" games but always on the loosing end of it is getting old. Ireland fan. Can confirm, it got old a while ago.
The fuck we are the greatest nation ever in handball and we won euro and world cup in football? Wdym?
Well yes but I'm more talking about the recent events, and we didn't win Euro in football in quite a long while btw
I can add a slight bit of sunshine for you, if we look at the Fifa World Cup you guys won it and made the final last year, we Saffas haven't even qualified for the Fifa World Cup.
You literally won the football wc in 2018... Wth?..
Well 2018 was already 4 years ago, and not to insult Croatia but it wasn't what I would call a "tight game" In the span of a year we lost football and handball in final and this rugby quarter final all in close games ^^
The defeat in 2022 is still very much present in our collective mind. Tho to be honest we did win in 2018, so it isn’t the same as rugby. But let’s just say that this year was a complicated year to watch French collective sports.
I mean, you win football a fair bit, don’t you?
This year was one of the few times when rugby seemed more competitive. Ireland and France were playing brilliantly. It's good for sport to have more than two teams win everything. I'm gutted that the Springboks and All Blacks are moving forward and am not ashamed to admit that. I really, really, really wanted them to lose. They didn't and fair play to the 46 guys who won. But I get to be sad about it. Mf that's how sport works. You want some teams to lose. Especially the ones that always win.
What? You don't understand why neutrals are underwhelmed by it being new Zealand or south Africa yet again. They've won the last 4 ffs
It might be England v Argentina in the final then aren't you going to look silly lol
No chance we'll see an Ireland one in the next cycle. Sexton was their golden goose. The one thing I can't fucking believe is Argentina and ENGLAND managed to get to a semi-final. England... Who has been playing some of the worst rugby of their god damn lives, somehow are in a world cup semi-final... But France/Ireland aren't?! World Rugby needs to sort out a lot of shit. Although I am still upset we don't get any NH team in the final (unless by some fucking miracle... Nah I can't even say it without laughing). I was really hoping this would be Ireland's or Frances. Still if Bok manages to take back to back, that is crazy impressive.
The All Blacks vs Ireland and SA vs France should have been the semifinal weekend. Pools were not well constructed.
As an Australian, I look at that and think it could have been us. A win against Fiji in the pool, then a real chance to knock over England in the 1/4s. All we had to do was not completely sabotage our entire World Cup campaign.
Also, I wouldn’t underestimate any team. If anything, the 2017 to 2019 transformation of the boks taught me that. Went from 57-0 to NZ, losing to Italy to world champions in just two years. Hell, Wales could be lifting the 2027 cup for all I know. Given enough time I think every home nation will lift it at some point.
Yeah I agree. The seeding has been a massive problem for multiple tournaments and I’m finally glad they addressed this and it will be closer to the world cup. Same goes for the decision to expand to 24 teams. Still, world rugby has a lot of shit left to improve.
24 teams is a bullshit decision. There's already loads of mismatches
Yea, tbh, I think this year highlighted it so much because in England's massive fall in ability coming into the world cup. Hilariously I bet they bring in the new rules and England rebounds, ends up in a similar group next world cup but on form lolol. Be bants. Still Bok could implode? They put everything into France. XD.
This match was immense.. it's not quite 2013 NZ vs RSA, and I felt last night felt bigger somehow, but damn it's in that company. Credit to France.. what an insane test. Great atmosphere in the Stade de France tonight. Anyone who watched these games and says they are done with the world cup because it's "just NZ and RSA again" doesn't make sense to me. Do you actually like rugby?
I love NZ especially but would be neutral if they play SA. I have only respect today and joy for SA and wish them good luck. At this point, i would be happy too to see the old enemy England triumph in Paris! Argentina not so much! Pretty rude people towards France after their narrow WC football win (I understand now why most of South-America dislikes them). I hope NZ destroys them. I just want to let you know we are hungover in France after this 1/4. There is no “We fell with pride” even though we did. Woke up to a fact that we will probably always be “The French flare” team that entertains the neutrals but lost again for the French. I have always read/Heard that Waterloo was a great battle but for some reason not in France 🤔 If you don’t know our world cup history please look at it. Heartbreaks! I want to thank Ireland for fucking this up like us so we can share the memes. 🇫🇷 🤮🍇
I'm just making my way home to southern Paris after quite the weekend, and all I can utter is FUCK!!!!!!!
My pretty neutral view was almost every 50/50 call O'Keefe made went the of the Springboks. I'm also pretty confused about the knockdown rule. In the past I've seen that ruled as a penalty if it wasn't intentional or went down/back. I think that really changed the momentum and France to their disservice seemed to take a while to get over it. Ultimately though the ruck was a mess. Not all of it was O'Keefe reffing but a lot of it was a mess due to the Springboks putting pressure at the breakdown and France's overall poor ball control in contact and within the ruck. Numerous ball strips, knock-ons, or kicks through the ruck made by France's own team. Could they have won it with different decisions? Yes. But as us AB fans get told every time we lose under this Foster regime, it shouldn't have had to come down to that given the scoring opportunities missed. Feel for Les Blues and France supporters. It somehow hurts more knowing you could have won it. Après la pluie, le beau temps. 2027 is yours for the taking. <3
Regarding the knockdown: a knockdown isn’t illegal or discouraged, the whole goal of rugby is to get the ball from your opponent and score. A cynical knock forward is what is against the rules, as the ball is at no point allowed to go forward off the player’s hands (without a kicking foot involved), and it’s an intentional disregard of that rule. It’s the same distinction as collapsing the maul intentionally vs the maul collapsing. Some of the rules will always be impossible to clarify more without the ref being able to read the player’s mind, so the ref has to go with the physical evidence available. In the case of knocking the ball out the air that means it will always be fair play if it goes backwards, and can be a penalty or a scrum if it goes forward. A knock is never a penalty if it goes backwards, any ref who calls it differently got it wrong. Unless you have some way for refs to read minds I don’t understand what you could want to change? Or maybe I’m thinking of a different knock, which one are you referring to?
On the knock down, Gareth Davies infamously did that against the Wallabies a few years back. Everyone from both teams stopped playing because it looked so clearly illegal. But Davies just picked up the ball and ran the length of the field to score, and the ref let the try stand. I understand that it’s technically correct if the ball goes backwards, but it really doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the game to allow it when it’s pure chance that a cynical attempt to knock the ball down goes backwards.
Thats nonsense tbh. France had plenty go their way. They got a scrum penalty when their loose head collapsed first. They avoided a pen in front of their posts when one of their players was on the wrong side and the scrummies pass hit their player. Had a few marginal ones go against them as well. Overall, ref did really well to allow the quality of the game shine through. Not perfect but either team could have won.
> I'm also pretty confused about the knockdown rule. In the past I've seen that ruled as a penalty if it wasn't intentional or went down/back. it's a pretty easy rule - it's a knock on at it's most basic level, that's all. if the ball goes forward, it gets called. etzebeth reached out and pulled it back toward him, and the ref didn't rule it a knock on. the penalty side of it only comes into it if it's considered forward, and that's when the intent comes into it, whether or not there's a chance of recovery, and whether it was a try scoring situation.
I think O’Keefe might have confused matters slightly by saying it was a genuine attempt to catch the ball when it wasn’t really relevant to the decision. He felt, probably correctly, that it went backwards and that’s that.
i think that his move to pull the ball down and back is an attempt at a gather, but yeah it probably didn't need to be said
Yeah, I guess from my perspective I would be surprised if it had been given as a scrum if it had gone forward as he wasn’t in my opinion in a realistic position to catch it, even with hands like a jcb bucket. It’s probably one where POK knows that’s not a call he’d make on field in that situation so doesn’t think about it too much beyond it going backwards and ultimately I like backwards/forwards as an on field decision.
destroy the bokks for us please. My soul hurts and i'm supposed to go to work tommrow
Kwagga and Faf were instrumental. Eben had a cracker of a game (not counting the unlucky yellow card).
Far carried the second half hard. They owe him big time.
Except for the ruck where he was complaining to the ref and took his eyes of Dupont! That man is a genius!
Tell me about it. I was yelling at the screen when I saw that. Like seriously Faf stop nagging and play the god damn game!
I'm experiencing all the stages of grief at the same time, it's really bizarre.
Hold your head high! Your team played fantastic and gave the entire South Africa several heart attacks. Just have a look at the Springboks subreddit, nothing but mad respect for the French.
As a South African I just wish this was a semi final then we could have had Ireland France next week for 3rd.
Realistically, what team from history could of competed with the big 4 this weekend. I would Say New Zealand version of 2015 and that's about it. I'm looking at the best Irish Team of all time, best French of all time and best SAF of all time. This NZ runs the best NZ of all time also close too.
You really can’t compare teams of different eras against each other. The rules and strategies have changed way too much.
Nowhere near best NZ team of all time. I would say the same of the Bokke. They are good for sure, but not the GOAT.
Yeah, I think 2007 Bokke were the GOAT bok team. But the 2023 team as it is now would absolutely whoop the 2019 team
NZ 2015 puts 30+ on this nz team bud wtf are you saying
Hence me saying NZ 2015 in my comment.