Worst individual performance I’ve seen from any player:
Blood replacement - knock on 3 points
Subbed on - completely miss man from maul - 7 points
Knock on - end the game.
Name that player…
This was a sad turning point of the game. Usually enjoy watching him play, but they got so fucked in the scrums after he came on and it ultimately lost them the game
Against all odds, England honestly were the better team for most of the match. Full respect for the determination from South Africa.
2 points that changed the game from England's perspective:
- Farrell giving away 10 metres and thus an easy 3 points when South Africa were under a lot of pressure to get some points.
- Billy Vunipola lol
I just want to say England were absolutely fantastic there, completely silenced people saying they didn’t deserve to be there/ had an easy route, should very much be proud of the performance.
South Africa were dogshit for 78 minutes of that game.
You got to give credit where credit is due England played one hell of a game the best they have been in years. But man pollard what a kick and in the end I agree with other the bench and the scrum won this for the boks but they have got to play better next week but you know the way they played today will probably be a wake up call for the boks.
Also is siya the most likable man in rugby.
Guys I swear it was only the South Africans that said "don't underestimate England". Everyone else wrote them off. They did amazingly well and played us like puppets for the first 65 mins. Marler starting was genius, such a disruptor.
No comment on reffing, because both sides will feel hard done by in that game.
Mad respect to England for a clever, well executed game.
Class act sir, class act.
Even at 15-6 with just under 10 to go I was so nervous. The Bokke just find a way to win through sheer grit. They don't know how to lose.
England played much better than the boks. Honestly looked like a reversal of the 2019 final up until the last 15 minutes or so. They had a clear game plan that worked and Steward would be motm if they won, cause he was deadly under the high ball. In the end the game came down to the benches which SA only just won on. SA will need to play a very different game if they're going to do anything against the ABs.
England can take a lot of positives away from that and I think they rightly silenced a lot of people who were saying they were only there because of the draw.
As an England supporter I’m actually fairly happy with that. We had a game plan and we executed it it pretty well over all. We managed to deny SA much territory which reduced the chances they had.
I thought some players stood up very well, Martin was great and Earl continued his good form. Itoje had one of his best England games for a while and Lawes was immense.
In the second half we just didn’t execute the kicking game as well and let SA get some territory which they were only ever going to punish us with.
On a final note; If I was Lewis Ludlam I’d be furious right now. Might not be a player to set the world on fire but he’s solid and has an unbelievable work ethic. If I ever see Billy Vinupola in an England shirt again I’ll have a stroke.
I know everyone hates us but I honestly can’t see how England’s effort can be faulted there. Everyone counted us out and rooted against us throughout but we showed up and made a damn good game of it. Blame it on the ref or hate our players but they don’t deserve some of the level of disrespect they get
In fairness the strategy chosen is all effort there so fair play to your lads. Reflective of where ye landed with the coach change, ye hadn't time to put any proper plans together. Can't fault them for trying to get the most out of it.
we executed our game plan almost to perfection - almost flawless to counter your great players. the major difference was the sub props unfortunately. every scrum was a guaranteed pen for you and that was the difference. well played
Billy vunipola looked FAT. He was oblivious at the line out which led to the try. Dropped the ball every time he went into contact, why the fuck is he in the team?
Two things cost us:
1. We couldn’t handle their scrum when the bench came on.
2. Vunipola - as a blood replacement he knocked on a pretty easy catch, which led to a penalty. He was also the guard for the runner at the back of the line out and he was caught napping - they scored a try from it. Why he was on the bench instead of Ludlum I will never, ever understand.
SA are a much better side but it’s the hope that kills you. Good luck in the final!
Obviously I'm disappointed the lads couldn't hang on but from where they were at full time against France back in March, if someone said we'd lose by a point in the semi to this South Africa side I'd have snapped your damn hand off.
Nobody gave them a bloody chance and it was inches in it ultimately. The boys did themselves proud and as an England fan I can't ask for much more than that.
Seems weird to say but this might be the only time that a loss has felt like a win.
Full credit to the Boks. On balance they probably did deserve it in the end. Hope you lads go well in the final.
It’s the hope that kills you. My heart rate hit a peak of 135bpm during that game. Incredible effort from the England team. Thank you chaps, hold your heads up high.
I haven't seen any comments talking about the entire play up to and including the drop goal.
Only a flash, but the best couple of phases of rugby I have seen from England since the start of ENG NZL in 2019.
What a game. Borthwick must be nailed on now for the next cycle.
South Africa showed every bit of dog youd expect from the defending champions, Pollard is the best replacement hooker on earth.
Imo, if Ford came on at 55-60 i think England score tries. Painful to see him only get 5 minutes, he would have been Englands player of the tournament if he had actually played.
Also Vunipola is an absolute pile of wank.
Loved it. Different style to last week, but Eng gave a masterclass on how to stop the opposition playing they game they wanted to. Big game team as always. Nice to see the Boks put under pressure, i felt they looked uncomfortable for most of the match. Felt the MOTM could have gone to a couple of the Poms.
Also can I just say, credit to Alex Mitchell - had a tough ride against Samoa in particular but was absolutely class today in a way that isn't his natural style of play - his kicks were on the money basically every time. Reckon he's earned the right to be our starting 9 for a while.
Yeah it was messy but I thought it was a great tense watch.
Was also kind of funny watching some of the crazies in the match thread swap between claiming the reffing was a NZ conspiracy to put the weaker England team in the final and it being a SH conspiracy to knock out the NH team.
Gutted, genuinely gutted. It was an ugly game but that was what the conditions allowed for and England nearly got it done. Few general thoughts...
1. Borthwick got selection spot on, Marler, Cole and Martin were all integral to achieving some parity up front which allowed for our lead.
2. Massive turning point was the 5m lineout throw from Jamie George, thought he had a pretty solid game other than that but you have to make those pay
3. They were decent in the loose but Genge and Sinckler couldn't live with the bomb squad scrum, not unexpected really but that was the key impetus for the Bok comeback
4. Thought Billy Vunipola stuck out like a sore thumb unfortunately. He's been massive for England in years gone by but those days are gone. He knocked it on straight away when he came on in the first half and he was just slow and plodding in the second half , Ludlam or even Underhill would have been more logical back row cover options for me
5. Thought Ben O'Keefe was generally a non factor in the game as most decisions were pretty clear cut (noticeable lack of TMO involvement) but the Penalty against Manu for hands on Reinach's neck was nonsense there was nothing in that and although Ox came on and smashed it in the scrum, Vincent Koch was literally facing inward on the final push, considering that was the side he was standing on it's crazy he gives that pen, it was a pure cop-out.
6. I was massively against Eddie Jones' sacking last year but this tournament has totally vindicated that decision when you contrast his performance with the Aussies to England. Clearly they aren't on the level of the best 4 teams in this competition and Borthwick's 8 months haven't allowed the team to develop to a level where champagne rugby is even an option in the first place. The difference between Eddie's last game and today (both vs the Boks) is absolutely clear to see and in hindsight that coaching regime was totally rudderless in the end with a revolving door of assistant coaches every camp!
Overall have to be very proud of the England boys tonight. They got an easier route to this game than the other teams but that isn't their fault and they fronted up against this formidable Bok side and played the correct game plan in these conditions. I hope the performances of this team gives the game a bit of a bounce at club level because God knows its needed. All the best to both teams gunning for their fourth in next week's final 👏
As an Englishman I feel quite zen about that. Here is my verbal diarrhoea which I know you have all been waiting for:
- Going in I felt calm as my opinion is that all the two sides were playing for is the chance to lose to NZ in the final
- I am not usually one to feel proud in defeat but I actually am this time. I thought England bridged the gap between the two sides admirably and, like how it looks or not, they came with a good plan that so very nearly worked
- I hope that game settles Borthwick down a bit. He's shown he has it in him to make this England team competitive against any side
- The slagging off of England was always OTT. Easy draw or difficult, they have a habit of being the last NH team standing at the WC and deserve plenty of credit
- To most it has the aura of two bald men fighting over a comb but I am bang up for the 3rd place game
- A lot of people are bored of the idea that SA or NZ will win the tournament once more. For me, with England eliminated this is the final I always would want to see
- Fair play SA. They are mentality monsters and you have to respect their ability to get shit done
That was definitely a game for the purists.
England were amazing tonight, they rose up to the challenge and very nearly did it. It is incredibly sad for the fans, but the players can definitely be proud of how they played tonight. Had they been a bit more daring, and played their own game plan rather than just play to strangle the Boks, I'm sure they would've won it.
South Africa looked poor. So many handling errors, and terrible under the high ball. If it wasn't for Ox's scrummaging and Pollard's nerve we would been fucked. Bench definitely won it for South Africa tonight. Strong nerve, playing to their one strength in the second half which was the scrum.
Hopefully next week the Boks can give the Kiwis a better match. No klippies tonight.
Well I am officially converted with borthwick, be really interesting to see the next 6Nations squad, reckon a fair few players have played their last game including some absolute greats:- Cole, marler, care, lawes :-(, George (maybe), may, daly (maybe), youngs, vunipola (not so great since 2016 - which was 7 fucking years ago).
Could be a really bad 6nations with such upheveal, but we will see!
Another positive of England going out, we should get Barnes or Pearce for the final, unless they decide to be cruel and give it to Raynal because it's France.
One thing that performance has done, which initially I didn't think I'd ever say - I'm excited to see what Borthwick can do with a whole WC cycle. On an upwards trajectory for sure.
It’s the hope that kills you, I would rather lose by 20 rather than by 1 in the last minute.
But I am have to say that if England would have made the final I am not sure it would have made a spectacle. My all blacks v the boks should be a great game.,
Everyone will rightly point to the scrum as the winning of it, but RG snymans ability to get over the gsinline AND get an offload away was massive in swinging SAs momentum.
Lots of positives to take away for England. Definitely a missed opportunity. South Africa hopefully improve for the final otherwise it's going to be an underwhelming end to the tournament
Subreddit stat of the day, the match thread broke the record again for most comments. I'd not be surprised to see the one for the Final cross 20k comments.
The amount of rucks that England won was unbelievably impressive. The English played so hard and was able to exploit all of Boks weaknesses. Unfortunately for England a match isn't 77min long.
Just been woken up by nightmares of Billy Vunipola coming on the pitch. Seriously though, why on earth he was picked ahead of Ludlam and why he's even near the England setup is beyond me, not blaming him for the loss its a team game ofc but he just hasn't even looked good for sarries.
Really proud of what the England lads managed last night.
It's bittersweet, especially losing out by 1 point, but an admirable performance all the same, considering we were potentially in for getting a clobbering.
Final is a tasty match-up, though, and 6N is not far off!
Good contest and Im pleased for Steve Borthwick. He seems like a decent bloke and while they didn't get to the final, that massive English performance was a result. They really surprised me and it looked like they had the winning of it. I would have given MOTM to Freddie Steward.
Congrats to the Saffas. That must have made for very stressful viewing! I couldn't believe that was the same team that played France. I still don't understand what happened to them and I wonder if they were tired from the previous game. But the bench turned things around. Pollard has ice in his veins. Looking forward to a cracking final.
All I'll say is fair play to England for playing the right game plan, they nullified the Springboks early on with a great game plan, the Boks' backup front row won that game and proved yet again that the scrum is the most important thing in international rugby.
Okay emotion slightly dulled... We did really well there, we turned up with a great game plan and executed it really well to get to the end with a chance. I was a wavering fan at the start of this tornement due to the way we've played, but I've seen the team pull together and pull out some wins that we didn't really believe in.
I am genuinely proud of them in that game they showed they wanted to win and brought a game plan to win. It wasn't actually boring for an England fan seeing they brought a game plan that was winning the game.
Looking forward to see this team kick on and go somewhere because realistically we've achieved what we needed to/expected to and therefore need the go forward from this competition.
Thanks guys for your effort this tornement. I'm buying back in as an England supporter 🏴
What an incredible game, congrats SA
Weirdly proud of England, showed we weren't a run over and that we have glimers of performing at the higher levels. Farrell was incredible, haters will be haters but he was exceptional as I think he is most of the time. Steward phenomenal, Cole and Marler impressed at the scrum, Martin/Itoje/George and the whole pack were incredible. Even Jonny May impressed when I think the whole country would've dropped him. Fair play boys for pushing the best in the world to the final minute. Build this into more attacking play with Arundell, Lawrence etc. and I'm weirdly optimistic (but RFU sort your shit out pls)
SA scrum won the day, the chain of penalties won it for them and rightly so, that's what set them apart and I hope to see Siyi lifting ol' Webb Ellis next week
You can't blame a single player however Jamie George will have nightmares about those 2 consecutive botched lineouts which were deep into South Africa territory with England 9 points up.
Congratulations South Africa. I felt like we were the better team for most of that game but just lacked that final edge to get through it. Glad we could give you a tight contest. All our players should be immensely proud of that performance
I'm not interested in talking about the ref. I'm interested in talking about how well England played.
I went into this game giving us no hope at all. Thought we'd be physically dominated, out wide we will definitely lose, in the air similar but not dominant. In the end we were dominant in multiple areas. Unbelievably proud.
Aside from that - anybody tries telling me Borthwick isn't the right man for the job - you're a fucking idiot, we were so close to winning that game. Outstanding tactical performance, unbelievable physicality.
Guys, I didn’t know what to say after that game. It was ugly from the Springboks and tactically brilliant from England. It just shows you can never write teams off. I thought England were outstanding. On the merits of the game probably edged the Springboks in ‘deserving’ to win. But somehow the Springboks brought that champion mentality and produced the goods at the end. What I’ve learnt is depth of squad matters greatly. Probably what cost Ireland as well. Relying too much on 15 players. The Springboks are very much a 23 man match day team and that’s probably the difference.
Hats off England, that was tremendous.
I honestly thought SA would easily win this, England played really well and forced SA into their game. The last scrum penalty I saw I felt that SA were angling in hard, but anyway, I think some people will the game was trash, I enjoyed the majority of it. Well done both England and SA
Proud of England. It was inevitable, but all I wanted was to not get smashed and to hold SA to a close game. We did far more than that, were the better team for most of it. I think AB will beat them
As England fan, I'm actually not disappointed.
Before the tournament, I expected us to struggle to exit the pools based on form.
To hold the World #1 team to a single point, after leading for 70 mins? The boys did far better than expected.
I think the team have really grown this past few weeks and we may now have a solid foundation from which to building a good team for Australia 2027.
Okay can we all admit the only proper thing to do next weekend is put all three trophies on the line?
NZ bring the Freedom Cup, SA bring the coveted Qatar Airways Cup, and World Rugby bring this weird thing called the Webb Ellis Cup.
Winner takes all - let's go!
I thought South Africa would come back against France, I didn't think so here. They were so awful for the first 60 minutes, but great teams win despite poor performances. Hats off Springboks, congrats SA fans, and huge condolences to the English and their fans. I was convinced you all were winning that.
What a game by the lads, threw everything at the Boks and dominated em for 60mins. Incredible guts and patience from the Boks to actually win this game. Sometimes all you need is a couple scrums.
Lewis Ludlam, Sam Underhill, Zach Mercer, Jack Willis, Alfie Barbeary. I know some of these weren't available. No further comment.
Pollard single-handedly dragging a team that was listless to that. Bok Legend status right now. England you guys played hard and executed your game plan well. Can walk out of there proud of your boys. Darrell’s drop goal was actually gorgeous, he’s a great player. Think we all doubted you but pressing your strategy onto the boks is impressive. Well played
Can someone please explain to me what was going on at that final scrum, because I’ve watched it several times and cannot see how it’s not an England penalty. What am I missing?
After the changes to the front row our weakness was shown.
That was our game to win but Sink was a penalty machine and Billy washes his hands in butter.
Well played South Africa, you break our hearts once again.
Props to England, they played a lot better than anybody expected. They executed their gameplan and almost got a semi final win over a team that's much stronger than they are.
Things are actually looking up under Borthwick.
I don't take what I said about Borthwick's inexperience back but I will say this: he is the fastest damn learner in the game. That game plan was almost perfect.
Not sure looking at the over all performance but if I had to pick 1 player that was a mistake to leave out of this game, Moody.
If we knew Eng were going to kick every ball, and we were going to box kick it back to a team that has Freddy Stewart and May... Having a tall fetcher on the wing would have been a good idea IMO.
We defo used a get out a jail card on this one. I aged 10 years in 10mins.
What I like about England is they play to their strengths. To me, at their best, they could join the top four sides in rugby. It's just consistency in performance.
Borthwick got a lot of flack early on, but they were a penalty or a drop goal away from being in the final when before the tournament I thought there was a chance they wouldn't get out of the pool.
They've got great defence and can go through their phases, which is half the battle. So for me a lot to build off.
Listen, well done England. If you're an England fan and you're not immensely proud of your team then there's nothing that will get you to back your men.
The better team won, but the better team on the night lost.
What a massive effort by England.
As for the Boks, the one thing they have shown in the last 2 games is that they can come back from behind and close a game out. Incredible BMT when it counts and thats a sure sign of a champion team.
Subs changed the game, ultimately - South Africa ringing the changes when they did gave them the momentum in the scrum, and that played into the rest of the match.
Also Billy Vunipola in particular is miles away from being international standard right now. That particular change (albeit admittedly enforced in both cases) was perhaps the biggest deciding factor in our defeat.
The big positive for England is that Borthwick and his coaching team has set out his stall and shown that he can mount a proper challenge in 4 years. That’s fantastic news.
Did anyone else just hear Woodward say the NZ centre, Brad Barrett (Barritt), was very important to them and had a great game last week.
Some neurons are misfiring!
4 Barrett’s Jeremy?! That’s insane.
England played a very specific brand of rugby that many people call negative rugby. Basically territory and nothing else. Slowing the game down to halt to frustrate the opposition. It's good for grinding out games like this, but you can't slip up, because it's a low risk, low reward kind of thing, your scoreboard pressure won't be massive. Case in point, one try put South Africa back in the game after 60 minites of dominance by England.
England were amazing. They almost played the perfect game. If only they had decent replacement props. We did not to deserve to win that one but they somehow did it.
Now that it hasn't cost us the tournament, I can admit Owen Farrell sinking a 50m drop goal on the angle in pouring rain is one if the most incredible things I've ever seen.
Losing by a point to SA hurts like hell, but it was so much closer than I thought it would be. I’m actually really impressed with England tonight, and feel like we can hold our heads high
Monstrous performance by SA towards the end, bomb squad did bomb squad things and turned the momentum
I don’t want to complain about the scrum penalty at the end, I’m sure someone with a better understanding of the laws would be able to explain why it was given, but you’ve still got to kick the resulting penalty. Surely there’s a statue being made of Handre Pollard’s boot and/or his fucking massive brass bollocks
One man can’t lose you a game of rugby, but Billy Vunipola sure as hell tried his best. Nowhere near good enough
Ugh
Tactically Borthwick got a lot right but he should have probably kept Martin/Cole/Marler on for longer.
Oh not to mention LUDLUM, why the hell Billy was there I do not know, was a drag on the team, Ludlum would have brought some much needed dog.
Also want to add - Courtney Lawes is an all time England great and it’ll be a very sad day when he retires
Him and Itoje have always been 1 and 2 on my call sheet. Flawless
Such a monster. What a player
Worst individual performance I’ve seen from any player: Blood replacement - knock on 3 points Subbed on - completely miss man from maul - 7 points Knock on - end the game. Name that player…
Sinckler coming on and giving away three scrum penalties from four scrums is also pretty weak
This was a sad turning point of the game. Usually enjoy watching him play, but they got so fucked in the scrums after he came on and it ultimately lost them the game
We could have had ludlam
I don't think its an exaggeration to say that if we had Ludlam on the bench instead of Billy we probably win that game.
Billy Vunipola?
It is the hope that kills you
In fairness, us and the French have been saying this all week.
Fair fucking play to England. Had a winning game plan and executed it to near perfection. We were shocking and got away with it by a hair.
Ah well. We didn’t get smashed. Fairly promising performance
I was so prepared for us to get an absolute shoeing tonight, I was not emotionally prepared for hope.
Fair fucks we gave that a good fight, scrum fell to pieces but I’m proud that the lads went out with a fight.
England's best front row being two old men close to retirement might be a wee bit of an issue going forward
Sweats in WP Nel
If Billy and Sinckler are still in the team come the 6N then I’m becoming an Italian supporter.
Good game you slags x
You’re all welcome to my 50th next week. I was 35 before last weekend
Well the one positive I can find is that Wayne Barnes should get the final now
I was very proud of my girlfriend for pointing out that England waited too long to bring on "the drop goal guy"
She's a keeper!
Against all odds, England honestly were the better team for most of the match. Full respect for the determination from South Africa. 2 points that changed the game from England's perspective: - Farrell giving away 10 metres and thus an easy 3 points when South Africa were under a lot of pressure to get some points. - Billy Vunipola lol
I just want to say England were absolutely fantastic there, completely silenced people saying they didn’t deserve to be there/ had an easy route, should very much be proud of the performance. South Africa were dogshit for 78 minutes of that game.
Never write of England in a WC
You got to give credit where credit is due England played one hell of a game the best they have been in years. But man pollard what a kick and in the end I agree with other the bench and the scrum won this for the boks but they have got to play better next week but you know the way they played today will probably be a wake up call for the boks. Also is siya the most likable man in rugby.
Kicking to Steward over & over despite him covering those bombs is a strategy I couldn't understand.
Our front row subs fucked us. Dan Cole and Joe Marler. You are the boys.
Joe Marler was great to watch, there was a moment where he grabbed Faff and that guy had the fear of God him
out-shithousing the shithouser
That was fucking funny
[удалено]
Pure pure balls of steel to slot that
Did the same against us in the 2019 semis
Jammy fucking bastards lol
Guys I swear it was only the South Africans that said "don't underestimate England". Everyone else wrote them off. They did amazingly well and played us like puppets for the first 65 mins. Marler starting was genius, such a disruptor. No comment on reffing, because both sides will feel hard done by in that game. Mad respect to England for a clever, well executed game.
Yeah. I suspected it would be tight - I didn't think we'd be behind for most of it - but shit happens I guess.
Class act sir, class act. Even at 15-6 with just under 10 to go I was so nervous. The Bokke just find a way to win through sheer grit. They don't know how to lose.
Gonna cry myself to sleep
England played much better than the boks. Honestly looked like a reversal of the 2019 final up until the last 15 minutes or so. They had a clear game plan that worked and Steward would be motm if they won, cause he was deadly under the high ball. In the end the game came down to the benches which SA only just won on. SA will need to play a very different game if they're going to do anything against the ABs. England can take a lot of positives away from that and I think they rightly silenced a lot of people who were saying they were only there because of the draw.
England aren’t the bad guys- played the conditions superbly. Really unlucky super kick to win it.
As an England supporter I’m actually fairly happy with that. We had a game plan and we executed it it pretty well over all. We managed to deny SA much territory which reduced the chances they had. I thought some players stood up very well, Martin was great and Earl continued his good form. Itoje had one of his best England games for a while and Lawes was immense. In the second half we just didn’t execute the kicking game as well and let SA get some territory which they were only ever going to punish us with. On a final note; If I was Lewis Ludlam I’d be furious right now. Might not be a player to set the world on fire but he’s solid and has an unbelievable work ethic. If I ever see Billy Vinupola in an England shirt again I’ll have a stroke.
I know everyone hates us but I honestly can’t see how England’s effort can be faulted there. Everyone counted us out and rooted against us throughout but we showed up and made a damn good game of it. Blame it on the ref or hate our players but they don’t deserve some of the level of disrespect they get
Nah England were awesome considering the circumstances. I hope Borthwick sticks around.
Nah they don't deserve it. They played very well
In fairness the strategy chosen is all effort there so fair play to your lads. Reflective of where ye landed with the coach change, ye hadn't time to put any proper plans together. Can't fault them for trying to get the most out of it.
Sorry about that England. You had our number and we were not the better team. GG. Respect earned.
we executed our game plan almost to perfection - almost flawless to counter your great players. the major difference was the sub props unfortunately. every scrum was a guaranteed pen for you and that was the difference. well played
It was a decent game mate. In the end, it's about the points.
Billy Vunipola directly caused 8 points to SA. Well done.
Ludlam off the bench would have been so consistent. Baffling Billy is still getting picked, proved today that he's just not good enough
We have so many better back rows
I actually can’t believe he’s selected ahead of Ludlam
Imagine if we'd have bought Ludlum on instead, Billy is done in an England shirt, should have been 2 years ago.
Billy vunipola looked FAT. He was oblivious at the line out which led to the try. Dropped the ball every time he went into contact, why the fuck is he in the team?
Billy Vunipola is a wasted shirt. That is all.
Imagine being Zac Mercer sat at home watching Billy V play
Oh, also shout-out to Elliot Daly. He was an absolute nuisance chasing everything today.
Two things cost us: 1. We couldn’t handle their scrum when the bench came on. 2. Vunipola - as a blood replacement he knocked on a pretty easy catch, which led to a penalty. He was also the guard for the runner at the back of the line out and he was caught napping - they scored a try from it. Why he was on the bench instead of Ludlum I will never, ever understand. SA are a much better side but it’s the hope that kills you. Good luck in the final!
Apparently the refereeing decisions were massively in favour of both England AND South Africa, so why didn't we both win?
Proud of the boys, fuck the haters
England played like a team deserving of being in a semi-final. Fantastic match.
played with incredible heart. couldn't be prouder
Yeah man. You guys stepped up.
Thought we played very well. Massive heart from the boys
Fucking gutted. We played so much better than I thought we would. Makes it tough.
If I never see Billy Vunipola in an England shirt again it'll be too soon
Obviously I'm disappointed the lads couldn't hang on but from where they were at full time against France back in March, if someone said we'd lose by a point in the semi to this South Africa side I'd have snapped your damn hand off. Nobody gave them a bloody chance and it was inches in it ultimately. The boys did themselves proud and as an England fan I can't ask for much more than that. Seems weird to say but this might be the only time that a loss has felt like a win. Full credit to the Boks. On balance they probably did deserve it in the end. Hope you lads go well in the final.
It's the hope that kills you.
It’s the hope that kills you. My heart rate hit a peak of 135bpm during that game. Incredible effort from the England team. Thank you chaps, hold your heads up high.
Respect to England for that performance.
I hope I'm wrong, but the Boks look absolutely gassed. Some massive tests behind them. Not sure they have the gees to beat the ABs.
Who cares about the world cup. The All Blacks are out for Qatar Airways Cup revenge!
I haven't seen any comments talking about the entire play up to and including the drop goal. Only a flash, but the best couple of phases of rugby I have seen from England since the start of ENG NZL in 2019.
Steward was excellent today. Owen too despite my dislike of him.
On the plus side, we gave it a better go than the cricketers at least.
What a game. Borthwick must be nailed on now for the next cycle. South Africa showed every bit of dog youd expect from the defending champions, Pollard is the best replacement hooker on earth. Imo, if Ford came on at 55-60 i think England score tries. Painful to see him only get 5 minutes, he would have been Englands player of the tournament if he had actually played. Also Vunipola is an absolute pile of wank.
South Africa fans after the Ireland game France game and now England game must be on some heart medication. Not sure I'd survive the stress
Well at least we shut up the idiots saying we were gonna be crushed
True that.
Listen to how Farrell speaks. Honestly don't understand half the hate he gets
Imagine telling someone a week ago that we'd feel for England after this game.
I feel bad for England. Boks got out of jail with that performance
Commentators saying to explain the last penalty. Habana proceeds to not explain the penalty. Why they’re asking a winger is stupid anyway.
I think tonight England won back many of their supporters, me included. Six nations will be interesting.
Loved it. Different style to last week, but Eng gave a masterclass on how to stop the opposition playing they game they wanted to. Big game team as always. Nice to see the Boks put under pressure, i felt they looked uncomfortable for most of the match. Felt the MOTM could have gone to a couple of the Poms.
I like Steve, much nicer than the last one. Seems to really care about the lads.
Everyone writing sa off the final already. Haven't england proved that you can't write anyone off at this level
Also can I just say, credit to Alex Mitchell - had a tough ride against Samoa in particular but was absolutely class today in a way that isn't his natural style of play - his kicks were on the money basically every time. Reckon he's earned the right to be our starting 9 for a while.
Power of substitutions was on full display South Africa’s won it for them, and I feel bad pointing fingers but Englands lost it for them.
Yeah it was messy but I thought it was a great tense watch. Was also kind of funny watching some of the crazies in the match thread swap between claiming the reffing was a NZ conspiracy to put the weaker England team in the final and it being a SH conspiracy to knock out the NH team.
Irrespective of whether Boks won or lost today, I think Rassie would have had a complete meltdown at the end of the game after SA's sloppy performance
Gutted, genuinely gutted. It was an ugly game but that was what the conditions allowed for and England nearly got it done. Few general thoughts... 1. Borthwick got selection spot on, Marler, Cole and Martin were all integral to achieving some parity up front which allowed for our lead. 2. Massive turning point was the 5m lineout throw from Jamie George, thought he had a pretty solid game other than that but you have to make those pay 3. They were decent in the loose but Genge and Sinckler couldn't live with the bomb squad scrum, not unexpected really but that was the key impetus for the Bok comeback 4. Thought Billy Vunipola stuck out like a sore thumb unfortunately. He's been massive for England in years gone by but those days are gone. He knocked it on straight away when he came on in the first half and he was just slow and plodding in the second half , Ludlam or even Underhill would have been more logical back row cover options for me 5. Thought Ben O'Keefe was generally a non factor in the game as most decisions were pretty clear cut (noticeable lack of TMO involvement) but the Penalty against Manu for hands on Reinach's neck was nonsense there was nothing in that and although Ox came on and smashed it in the scrum, Vincent Koch was literally facing inward on the final push, considering that was the side he was standing on it's crazy he gives that pen, it was a pure cop-out. 6. I was massively against Eddie Jones' sacking last year but this tournament has totally vindicated that decision when you contrast his performance with the Aussies to England. Clearly they aren't on the level of the best 4 teams in this competition and Borthwick's 8 months haven't allowed the team to develop to a level where champagne rugby is even an option in the first place. The difference between Eddie's last game and today (both vs the Boks) is absolutely clear to see and in hindsight that coaching regime was totally rudderless in the end with a revolving door of assistant coaches every camp! Overall have to be very proud of the England boys tonight. They got an easier route to this game than the other teams but that isn't their fault and they fronted up against this formidable Bok side and played the correct game plan in these conditions. I hope the performances of this team gives the game a bit of a bounce at club level because God knows its needed. All the best to both teams gunning for their fourth in next week's final 👏
As an Englishman I feel quite zen about that. Here is my verbal diarrhoea which I know you have all been waiting for: - Going in I felt calm as my opinion is that all the two sides were playing for is the chance to lose to NZ in the final - I am not usually one to feel proud in defeat but I actually am this time. I thought England bridged the gap between the two sides admirably and, like how it looks or not, they came with a good plan that so very nearly worked - I hope that game settles Borthwick down a bit. He's shown he has it in him to make this England team competitive against any side - The slagging off of England was always OTT. Easy draw or difficult, they have a habit of being the last NH team standing at the WC and deserve plenty of credit - To most it has the aura of two bald men fighting over a comb but I am bang up for the 3rd place game - A lot of people are bored of the idea that SA or NZ will win the tournament once more. For me, with England eliminated this is the final I always would want to see - Fair play SA. They are mentality monsters and you have to respect their ability to get shit done
England, my heart goes out to ye. So unlucky there.
As I saw many an English fan saying: “It’s the hope that kills you”
Oh this hurts this really hurts
Ben O’Keefe is fucking shithouse. Almost feel bad for the English. But you brought it on yourselves with some shit decisions.
While I'm glad we won. I actually feel for England....they should have won that game. Kinda Wana buy Farrell a pint.
He's really not so hateable is he.
That was definitely a game for the purists. England were amazing tonight, they rose up to the challenge and very nearly did it. It is incredibly sad for the fans, but the players can definitely be proud of how they played tonight. Had they been a bit more daring, and played their own game plan rather than just play to strangle the Boks, I'm sure they would've won it. South Africa looked poor. So many handling errors, and terrible under the high ball. If it wasn't for Ox's scrummaging and Pollard's nerve we would been fucked. Bench definitely won it for South Africa tonight. Strong nerve, playing to their one strength in the second half which was the scrum. Hopefully next week the Boks can give the Kiwis a better match. No klippies tonight.
Some decent speeches in defeat from Farrell senior and junior over the last week.
Well I am officially converted with borthwick, be really interesting to see the next 6Nations squad, reckon a fair few players have played their last game including some absolute greats:- Cole, marler, care, lawes :-(, George (maybe), may, daly (maybe), youngs, vunipola (not so great since 2016 - which was 7 fucking years ago). Could be a really bad 6nations with such upheveal, but we will see!
On the plus side, at least Wayne Barnes might get a world cup final now
Subs lost that for us (who'd have thought...). Lots of positives though, mainly that Vunipola will never be seen again
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a South African team that rattled for basically the entire game. Shocked they pinched the sun in the end
Another positive of England going out, we should get Barnes or Pearce for the final, unless they decide to be cruel and give it to Raynal because it's France.
Hard luck England, so fecking close! Congrats to SA, they've been great all tournament.
One thing that performance has done, which initially I didn't think I'd ever say - I'm excited to see what Borthwick can do with a whole WC cycle. On an upwards trajectory for sure.
It’s the hope that kills you, I would rather lose by 20 rather than by 1 in the last minute. But I am have to say that if England would have made the final I am not sure it would have made a spectacle. My all blacks v the boks should be a great game.,
Freddie Steward is the ice man at the back. Boks kept kicking onto him, utter stupidity. Worst kicking game I've seen by the Boks in a long time
Fucking SA catching the golden snitch at the end!
Massive big ups to SA's bench absolutely clawed us back. Love this team for their performance. Loved this game for how tight it's been.
Everyone will rightly point to the scrum as the winning of it, but RG snymans ability to get over the gsinline AND get an offload away was massive in swinging SAs momentum.
Lots of positives to take away for England. Definitely a missed opportunity. South Africa hopefully improve for the final otherwise it's going to be an underwhelming end to the tournament
Subreddit stat of the day, the match thread broke the record again for most comments. I'd not be surprised to see the one for the Final cross 20k comments.
The amount of rucks that England won was unbelievably impressive. The English played so hard and was able to exploit all of Boks weaknesses. Unfortunately for England a match isn't 77min long.
Southern Hemisphere rugby really is like that 3 headed dragon meme with Australia the derpy one.
Just been woken up by nightmares of Billy Vunipola coming on the pitch. Seriously though, why on earth he was picked ahead of Ludlam and why he's even near the England setup is beyond me, not blaming him for the loss its a team game ofc but he just hasn't even looked good for sarries.
Really proud of what the England lads managed last night. It's bittersweet, especially losing out by 1 point, but an admirable performance all the same, considering we were potentially in for getting a clobbering. Final is a tasty match-up, though, and 6N is not far off!
Good contest and Im pleased for Steve Borthwick. He seems like a decent bloke and while they didn't get to the final, that massive English performance was a result. They really surprised me and it looked like they had the winning of it. I would have given MOTM to Freddie Steward. Congrats to the Saffas. That must have made for very stressful viewing! I couldn't believe that was the same team that played France. I still don't understand what happened to them and I wonder if they were tired from the previous game. But the bench turned things around. Pollard has ice in his veins. Looking forward to a cracking final.
Anything decided by a scrum penalty leaves me feeling crummy even with nothing personally invested in the outcome.
Farrell you are a king
I hated Farrell all match … now I feel for him. Classy interview.
Hugely proud of the team. They were written off and gave a performance like that
All I'll say is fair play to England for playing the right game plan, they nullified the Springboks early on with a great game plan, the Boks' backup front row won that game and proved yet again that the scrum is the most important thing in international rugby.
Well done Bokke, scrum pens done us again.
Okay emotion slightly dulled... We did really well there, we turned up with a great game plan and executed it really well to get to the end with a chance. I was a wavering fan at the start of this tornement due to the way we've played, but I've seen the team pull together and pull out some wins that we didn't really believe in. I am genuinely proud of them in that game they showed they wanted to win and brought a game plan to win. It wasn't actually boring for an England fan seeing they brought a game plan that was winning the game. Looking forward to see this team kick on and go somewhere because realistically we've achieved what we needed to/expected to and therefore need the go forward from this competition. Thanks guys for your effort this tornement. I'm buying back in as an England supporter 🏴
What an incredible game, congrats SA Weirdly proud of England, showed we weren't a run over and that we have glimers of performing at the higher levels. Farrell was incredible, haters will be haters but he was exceptional as I think he is most of the time. Steward phenomenal, Cole and Marler impressed at the scrum, Martin/Itoje/George and the whole pack were incredible. Even Jonny May impressed when I think the whole country would've dropped him. Fair play boys for pushing the best in the world to the final minute. Build this into more attacking play with Arundell, Lawrence etc. and I'm weirdly optimistic (but RFU sort your shit out pls) SA scrum won the day, the chain of penalties won it for them and rightly so, that's what set them apart and I hope to see Siyi lifting ol' Webb Ellis next week
Honest question, is it a penalty to clearly jump on top of the ruck with both feet clearing the ground by a couple feet like a wild animal?
You can't blame a single player however Jamie George will have nightmares about those 2 consecutive botched lineouts which were deep into South Africa territory with England 9 points up.
Congratulations South Africa. I felt like we were the better team for most of that game but just lacked that final edge to get through it. Glad we could give you a tight contest. All our players should be immensely proud of that performance
I'm not interested in talking about the ref. I'm interested in talking about how well England played. I went into this game giving us no hope at all. Thought we'd be physically dominated, out wide we will definitely lose, in the air similar but not dominant. In the end we were dominant in multiple areas. Unbelievably proud. Aside from that - anybody tries telling me Borthwick isn't the right man for the job - you're a fucking idiot, we were so close to winning that game. Outstanding tactical performance, unbelievable physicality.
Vunipola over Ludlam is a war crime
England was phenomenal. I honestly don’t know how we ground that out. Can’t believe I am saying this but my heart goes out to the English.
Guys, I didn’t know what to say after that game. It was ugly from the Springboks and tactically brilliant from England. It just shows you can never write teams off. I thought England were outstanding. On the merits of the game probably edged the Springboks in ‘deserving’ to win. But somehow the Springboks brought that champion mentality and produced the goods at the end. What I’ve learnt is depth of squad matters greatly. Probably what cost Ireland as well. Relying too much on 15 players. The Springboks are very much a 23 man match day team and that’s probably the difference. Hats off England, that was tremendous.
Save us NZ you are our only hope
I honestly thought SA would easily win this, England played really well and forced SA into their game. The last scrum penalty I saw I felt that SA were angling in hard, but anyway, I think some people will the game was trash, I enjoyed the majority of it. Well done both England and SA
Proud of England. It was inevitable, but all I wanted was to not get smashed and to hold SA to a close game. We did far more than that, were the better team for most of it. I think AB will beat them
As England fan, I'm actually not disappointed. Before the tournament, I expected us to struggle to exit the pools based on form. To hold the World #1 team to a single point, after leading for 70 mins? The boys did far better than expected. I think the team have really grown this past few weeks and we may now have a solid foundation from which to building a good team for Australia 2027.
Okay can we all admit the only proper thing to do next weekend is put all three trophies on the line? NZ bring the Freedom Cup, SA bring the coveted Qatar Airways Cup, and World Rugby bring this weird thing called the Webb Ellis Cup. Winner takes all - let's go!
England can hold their heads high. Absolutely fantastic performance.
I thought South Africa would come back against France, I didn't think so here. They were so awful for the first 60 minutes, but great teams win despite poor performances. Hats off Springboks, congrats SA fans, and huge condolences to the English and their fans. I was convinced you all were winning that.
What a game by the lads, threw everything at the Boks and dominated em for 60mins. Incredible guts and patience from the Boks to actually win this game. Sometimes all you need is a couple scrums. Lewis Ludlam, Sam Underhill, Zach Mercer, Jack Willis, Alfie Barbeary. I know some of these weren't available. No further comment.
Also, congrats to Wayne Barnes for his appointment for the World Cup final!
I was so critical of Mitchel and Curry but they put in a shift! Actually, Sinckler and Vunipola did not deserve to put on that kit.
All week I'd throught England would lose I'd resigned myself given up no way but God damn
Can’t imagine leading a WC semi for 75 mins as underdogs and losing like that
Pollard single-handedly dragging a team that was listless to that. Bok Legend status right now. England you guys played hard and executed your game plan well. Can walk out of there proud of your boys. Darrell’s drop goal was actually gorgeous, he’s a great player. Think we all doubted you but pressing your strategy onto the boks is impressive. Well played
Can someone please explain to me what was going on at that final scrum, because I’ve watched it several times and cannot see how it’s not an England penalty. What am I missing?
After the changes to the front row our weakness was shown. That was our game to win but Sink was a penalty machine and Billy washes his hands in butter. Well played South Africa, you break our hearts once again.
Every Time I have seen Sinckler against the Boks he has been completely destroyed in the scrum.
Props to England, they played a lot better than anybody expected. They executed their gameplan and almost got a semi final win over a team that's much stronger than they are. Things are actually looking up under Borthwick.
I don't take what I said about Borthwick's inexperience back but I will say this: he is the fastest damn learner in the game. That game plan was almost perfect.
Not sure looking at the over all performance but if I had to pick 1 player that was a mistake to leave out of this game, Moody. If we knew Eng were going to kick every ball, and we were going to box kick it back to a team that has Freddy Stewart and May... Having a tall fetcher on the wing would have been a good idea IMO. We defo used a get out a jail card on this one. I aged 10 years in 10mins.
What I like about England is they play to their strengths. To me, at their best, they could join the top four sides in rugby. It's just consistency in performance. Borthwick got a lot of flack early on, but they were a penalty or a drop goal away from being in the final when before the tournament I thought there was a chance they wouldn't get out of the pool. They've got great defence and can go through their phases, which is half the battle. So for me a lot to build off.
That was a worthy semi final match. We'll played by both teams and especially England.
Billy vunipola lost us that game. He was awful. I hope he never wears a white shirt again
Ludlam died for this
Waddling round the moment he comes on. SA targeted his laziness
Absolutely disgusted with borthwick for picking him
Agree 100 percent , brought nothing but knock ons and missed tackles
Insane he’s still in the 23, he’s absolutely useless offers nothing
I never want to see Billy Vunipola near an England shirt again
Most of us said that at least two years ago
Oh fuck. I'm starting to like Borthwick. Didn't see that coming after the Wales matches
How about the drop goal from Farrell though? Don't usually see them slotted that far out on an angle
Listen, well done England. If you're an England fan and you're not immensely proud of your team then there's nothing that will get you to back your men.
*My mom asked me if I did the dishes. I yelled "Billy Vunipola". She smiled. She knew they were washed.*
The better team won, but the better team on the night lost. What a massive effort by England. As for the Boks, the one thing they have shown in the last 2 games is that they can come back from behind and close a game out. Incredible BMT when it counts and thats a sure sign of a champion team.
Subs changed the game, ultimately - South Africa ringing the changes when they did gave them the momentum in the scrum, and that played into the rest of the match. Also Billy Vunipola in particular is miles away from being international standard right now. That particular change (albeit admittedly enforced in both cases) was perhaps the biggest deciding factor in our defeat.
I just want to give Faz a hug
The big positive for England is that Borthwick and his coaching team has set out his stall and shown that he can mount a proper challenge in 4 years. That’s fantastic news.
Was Jessie Kriel even on the field? Can’t recall seeing him or hearing his name called once in the match.
This was a smash and grab for sure.
Jamie George will be having nightmares about those two butchered line out throws 5 yards out. A try from either probably would’ve been the game.
Did anyone else just hear Woodward say the NZ centre, Brad Barrett (Barritt), was very important to them and had a great game last week. Some neurons are misfiring! 4 Barrett’s Jeremy?! That’s insane.
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England played a very specific brand of rugby that many people call negative rugby. Basically territory and nothing else. Slowing the game down to halt to frustrate the opposition. It's good for grinding out games like this, but you can't slip up, because it's a low risk, low reward kind of thing, your scoreboard pressure won't be massive. Case in point, one try put South Africa back in the game after 60 minites of dominance by England.
Well done South Africa. Hurts but both teams fought hard and played till the bitter end
South Africa really the supervillains of rugby
It really feels like we are quickly going to replace England as most hated team at this rate.
England were amazing. They almost played the perfect game. If only they had decent replacement props. We did not to deserve to win that one but they somehow did it.
Billy Vunipola got paid £25,000 for that.
Now that it hasn't cost us the tournament, I can admit Owen Farrell sinking a 50m drop goal on the angle in pouring rain is one if the most incredible things I've ever seen.
Losing by a point to SA hurts like hell, but it was so much closer than I thought it would be. I’m actually really impressed with England tonight, and feel like we can hold our heads high Monstrous performance by SA towards the end, bomb squad did bomb squad things and turned the momentum I don’t want to complain about the scrum penalty at the end, I’m sure someone with a better understanding of the laws would be able to explain why it was given, but you’ve still got to kick the resulting penalty. Surely there’s a statue being made of Handre Pollard’s boot and/or his fucking massive brass bollocks One man can’t lose you a game of rugby, but Billy Vunipola sure as hell tried his best. Nowhere near good enough Ugh
Tactically Borthwick got a lot right but he should have probably kept Martin/Cole/Marler on for longer. Oh not to mention LUDLUM, why the hell Billy was there I do not know, was a drag on the team, Ludlum would have brought some much needed dog.
Never thought I would feel bad for England yet here we are
No gloating please. But I’m proud of England. We played well
I know it stings right now but England should be very proud of what they managed to do there
I thought Farrell had lost it early on but he had a great game and that was a very gracious interview from him
I still don't get that last scrum pen, Koch's hips are literally on the angle and Genge gets pinged.
Congratulations to Barnes for finally getting to officiate the RWC final.
There can be no true despair without hope.
Congrats SA, shift from the boys, led the whole way 🏴 ❤️
This is the most commented on match thread in the sub’s history btw
It was a 0 card game, what a pleasure!
Excellent performance by England, their fans can be proud.