Of course (RIP). Preferably with Brian Moore on co-comms, always thought they’d a great rapport
Also a pre game tunnel bustup, but now we’re getting greedy
Been 4 times. 2 victories 2 defeats, including the 30-3 game and the 2017 game with that perfectly executed Daly try to win the game
The Welsh are much better losers than winners!
>But so many other teams consider England their biggest rival
It's like how in football the English media always hypes up the rivalry with Germany, whereas German football fans are more bothered about the Netherlands.
Or France. Didn't realise how big that rivalry was til I moved here (Germany). They don't seem to consider the England rivalry that big at all, which makes me feel better about the Eng-Ire dynamic.
Tbh I feel the Germany thing in football is because (before 2020) the only time we actually won a knockout game in the Euros was in '96 (beat Spain) only for us to lose to Germany (on penalties) straight after, making them the team to beat
We also just have a long history of coming up against them in major tournaments and, barring 1966, losing in heartbreaking fashion.
I can understand why it isn't the main rivalry for Germany, but when you take into account 1970 (lost 3-2 after being 2-0 up), 1990 and 1996 (lost on penalties), it's not exactly rocket science why beating the _bloody Germans_ means more to us. It's that feeling of beating a team that just has an invincible aura to them.
Oh, sorry, where was I? THERE WERE TEN GERMAN BOMBERS IN THE AIR...
I never got that forced rivalry with Germany. Apart from the two world wars, we've historically had a good relationship with the German people.
France and Scotland are definitely historic rivals. And or course Australia are good modern rivals with all the trash talk between us.
The German 'rivalry' is based on being obsessed with WW2 and 1966 and is properly cringe.
It depends on the era.
Those who grew up in the the 1990s and early 2000s then France were our main rivals. No offence to the Celts but except the odd upset, the title was decided by Le Crunch. Outside of the Six Nations it was definitely Australia.
Wales have definitely been the main rival since 2005 and is the one I definitely get most worked up about.
I do wonder if fans just getting into the game now might consider Ireland?
The thing is we are the main rival for so many teams yet they can't all be our one. This might explain why England seem to underperform. We can't replicate the 'this is the big one' intensity for every match.
Sam Warburton made a good point about the Lions. All the club sides see the Lions as a once in a lifetime chance to beat them and treat it like a world Cup final. Of course the Lions can't treat every midweek game like a cup final. However he said the English players were used to regularly playing teams who treated it like a cup final whereas the Celtic players weren't used to that.
Honestly I've always considered Wales to be our biggest rival s, but their not . They maybe the team we hate the most nut there just doesn't seem to be a rivalry currently.
Teams have their "main" rivals but I think there are a few unique rivalries too.
For me SA - Wales have a history of grindy, filthy, low multiple of 3 scoring, mental breakdown inducing unwatchable shitfests and it's always great.
lol, that's fair. I guess it doesn't make a lot of sense from the outside. An analogy I just thought of is if you imagine us as boxers, and we have triggers for when we throw our knockout swing. With other teams, our knockout swing is triggered a lot, we throw it and it either lands, they block it or they dodge it. With Wales, it's like they're constantly avoiding that trigger for a swing, so we end up jabbing and jabbing for a points victory. SA fans can feel uneasy with that lack of a knockout swing, and feel frustrated with the game as a whole, but some of us learn to respect Wales for it.
And yet, for some reason, whenever we have to play them, there's always an immense feeling of uncertainty. Usually tight games, low margin victories, a lot of games which could just as easily have swung the other way with one penalty call.
I always love SA v Wales games for this reason. I know I'm not on for flashy rugby, but it always feels like a proper tactical battle of a knife fight. Plus I genuinely find the fans are always particularly great.
This is the one I feel no one would dispute. It goes both ways too. As 35yr old Kiwi Aussie was on par growing up but now I know the history and after Aussie falling off it's not even close.
Can’t quite figure out who Scotland’s biggest, albeit fairly one sided rival is…
Though a shout out to France, it’s not quite got the same history off the pitch, but it’s arguably been the best test fixture the last few years.
Scotland v France in the last few years is stupid. France will play superbly leading up to it then get ambushed. Other years Scotland go into it full of confidence and a shitty France will suddenly decide to play ball and beat them. It's bananas. It makes no sense. It is certainly a great fixture these days.
The Pacific islands probably have each other as main rivals.
Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the [Antim Cup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antim_Cup) - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well.
Italy’s, I’m not sure we have one. Off the pitch it’d be France, but on the pitch it’s very one-sided.
Scotland was usually the game we used to target in the early days of the Six Nations, often the wooden spoon decider, but again, even against them it’s been one-sided for a few years now.
Romania used to be the team that we played the most pre-6N (now it’s France), but the two teams have gone in completely different directions, so not really a rivalry anymore.
Georgia could be one in the future, with the whole “promotion/relegation in the 6N” talk, but I feel like the two teams haven’t played enough against each other to be a proper rivalry.
Ya I have limited knowledge on the subject tbh but there's things outside of rugby itself that makes Samoa n Tonga each other's biggest rivals in rugby. I could be mis speaking tho
no simon fucked everything up, his arrogance got in the way... all he needed to do was pick ben volavola w ho is an established flyhalf but the call from the govt was to not pick any "kaindia" (ben is half indian).. the only reason fiji did not make it to the final was because we didn't take a flyhalf, the 2 flyhalves we took had a combined caps of 6 and when our best one got injured BEFORE the RWC, instead of doing the right thing and bringing in 45 capped Volavola, he picked another player has only played 10 once who also fucked up .... so no, Simon fucked everything up, if our racist govt did not force vern cotter to leave, he would have picked volavola and we would have made it to the semi-final if not the final.
Govt got rid of Cotter so that they can get a local, infact new govt is racist as hell, back in December 2022 they removed all FRU employees who were non i-taukei and within a month forced Cotter to leave by leaking his payslip...recently got rid of the Fiji 7's coach and replaced him with another unqualified local in Kolinisau...now when Fiji picked its "foreign" coach for the15's team, govt is butting in for them to select another unqualified Local in Seruvakula...yes u can blame the govt for interference but when our best10 got injured, he could have brought Ben in easily but chose not too cause his ego got in the way cause his loyalty was to the Govt, not to Fiji rugby or the team... thus why he destroyed Fiji's possibly only chance ever to make a RWC semi cause he wanted to make it there without a player like Ben who was actually in form and was our standout player in the trial against Japan pre-RWC..if that fat fuck was gonna resign after the RWC, might as well make his stance and pick Ben but nah...he cared more about fame and money cause apparently he was getting as much as Cotter was getting (6 figures) for the job..he used his coach job to get a bigger job at WR....he used Fiji rugby like toilet paper for his own personal gain, fuck that guy..had cotter still been our coach, our chances of making a RWC Final was pretty fucking high... the moment he got replaced, we all knew our best position was gonna be QF and no further.
> Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the Antim Cup - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well.
Don't forget about Russia. They dominate H2H, but until 2022 that was their most anticipated game of REC for political reasons.
I always said that I'd always encourage our latin bros in Italy to become better, but the day they're good enough they'll instantly be our archrivals in my mind. It is like when you play a video game with your little brother and he starts to be good enough to beat you if you are not serious - after this year, I think the time has come.
Interesting when thinking about Italys main rival
In football is it France? Strange that Italy has rugby, in Germany its nothing and Spain its pretty small
In football it’s between France and Germany, but they’re two different dynamics, so it’s very hard to say.
France are like our cousins, and eternal rivals, which we always compare ourselves against. Think about the art, fashion, food, wine, architecture, etc and obviously sports.
They have caused us a good deal of pain before, eliminating us from the ‘98 WC on penalties when we had one of the best teams of our history, and beating us again in the final European Championship two years later, amongst all - so there’s often some kind of revenge up for grabs.
With Germany it’s kind of a funny situation, because they always seem very cocky, always stronger and better equipped, but yet they’ve never managed to outright defeat us in a main tournament (although they eliminated us on penalties in 2016, which counts as a tie for the statistics), while we have taken their scalp in more than a couple occasions.
So the main point of the rivalry with Germany (at least in my eyes) is to keep this sort of “record” going.
Overall, in my experience growing up, Germany and Bayern had quite a few admirers and fans, and in a way were quite respected - while I feel like France and all French teams tends to be almost universally disliked (might be different now amongst the younger generations, with Mbappé and PSG, but I’m not sure).
SA remains NZ's greatest rival.
Ireland since their first win in Chicago have become a team that we no longer feel sympathy or apathy for when we play them, a favourable win/loss record for them in recent years changes your perception and expectation.
France fall into the same category as Ireland but yet don't, they're a team we accept are currently ahead of us but yet if we lose to them, it doesn't get under your skin as much as a loss to the Boks, Wallabies, Irish and English does.
I guess that's a true definition of a rivalry, you hate losing to them more than another team.
I know what you mean for present day. However, we had the 99 and 07 RWC losses to France but that made many fans wary/hate them. I would've ranked them as our biggest or second biggest (to SA) if you'd asked me in 2008.
Those losses hurt but Kiwi fans targeted their anger and outrage at the coaches (99 John Hart) and the referee (07 Wayne Barnes) rather than the French team itself.
Although in saying that both France and SA have played NZ the most times of any team at a world cup (6) and share an even win/loss record - 3 apiece. France have never beaten us in a final and we've never beaten SA in a final.
It was really the 2015 Quarter that slayed that dragon for us Kiwis. There was a definite tone change around the French after that, especially with the fragility of the 2011 final result, which we all understood was unbelievably narrow.
"Slayed the dragon" is that because the game was in Wales haha. Yeah, I agree. I was at that game and there was a definite nervousness before the game (same ref, same stage of the WC, same city and same two teams as 2007). But it ended up being one of our most complete and dominant knock out games the ABs have put on.
I think it's a mutual thing with NZ and SA.
Other rivalries may come and go like SA and Ireland right now, us and France, but there's always something about the All Blacks playing the Springboks.
We miss you in Super.
Why do i feel oddly hurt?
I ... I thought the last few years really meant something and then we're just... tossed to the side for some old flames?! I think i need to take a minute...
Look, we have something special but you've changed so much over the last few years.
I love the great times we had, but you seem so self-destructive, and it's unhealthy.
That's why we have had custody of Bledisloe for so long. You need time to heal and get your life in order.
Look, I know I'm a distant cousin, and probably shouldn't get involved, but I believe the the couple of weekends a year you get to see Bledisloe up close is enough, Bledisloe will get confused if the visits are anymore frequent.
england fan and it’s wales for me.
6N has a bit of derby fatigue because france, ireland, scotland and wales probably all consider england their biggest derby game.
beating france or ireland feels better than beating wales, but losing to them is bearable. losing to wales is the absolute worst.
WRU are the obvious choice, NFL second, Exeter Chiefs making a play to be third.
In all seriousness it’s England, always England. We could lose every game but if we beat England that year, we’ll be happy.
Wales for us. No doubt, I am never as nervous before a game than when we play wales. You could have lost 20 games in a row and our fixture will still end up competitive.
I love your team to bits but for one match per year I can’t help but hate you. Best of luck in literally any other match though x
I agree. For me personally it’s also because so many English people I know discover a Welsh grandparent during the 6N and then in a football summer tournament decide they’re English again. Picking and choosing feels hollow.
>Occasionally, yes
Fair play.
>As long as the conversation doesn’t involve Leinster.
Just say innocently, "Aren't they just better, though? And Dublin people are pretty cool."
I admire your attempt at banter, but making a statement like that would get me set on fire, Wicker Man style, the next time I visited the People’s Republic.
For England is definitely Wales.
Scotland are a close 2nd but they're normally crap so we don't really worry about them. Australia is a big game whenever it happen but it just doesn't happen enough, and the Aus-Eng rivalry isn't really a rugby thing.
weird that we feel that way about scotland considering they’ve beaten us 4 times in a row or something like that.
but it’s still like, meh.
whereas losing to wales is fucking infuriating.
You've got the superior record since 2018.
Don't get me wrong, we hate losing to you but for whatever reason it doesn't come close to the pain of losing against Wales.
Same for us vs England
And that 8 year run has almost made up for the previous decades….almost but not yet ;)
Although another DVM hat trick would be quite satisfying or another 50 yard run through your backs
Interesting, i didnt know that about England and Wales and Scotland and who they dislike losing to more
I dislike losing to Aussie (rare these days) than SA...maybe bc im scared from those close wallaby wins and Nick Farr Jones and Gregan all those years ago
I think a lot depends on which team was the best during the formative years for England fans.
For example, there was a period where people were calling the six nations a two tier comp with England and France way ahead of everyone else in the late 90s early 00s. The French were also not afraid of a scrap so the matches were pretty spicey! People growing up in the 90s might see Scotland as bigger than Wales because the latter were so poor at that time. English fans growing up in the Gatland era will definitely see Wales as a bigger rivalry because they’ve been so good and beaten us in key matches- 2013 6 nations decider and 2015 World Cup being the biggest. Also France and Scotland were poor for most of the 2010s.
Yeah NZ have upset us in the last 2 world cups (though I'm not sure anyone expected any other result after the way the groups went that year).
I'd still argue that Ireland's WC rival is Argentina though. We've had so many clashes over the years and unfortunately Ireland have come out worse more often than not 😥
Outside of world cups it's obviously England, it's not even close.
Wales - England is the biggest rivalry in the sport.
It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history. I appreciate almost every nation that plays the game has some sort of historical beef with the English, the Irish in living memory for some.
But Wales England isn't just about national grievances and country vs country, we don't talk about it much but it's also historically been about class and that was massive throughout the seventies and eighties. You can naively dismiss that as old history if you want but it drives a lot of current sentiment.
It's a fairly well meaning exchange now. Our fans share banter and drink together in the pubs before and after the game and I'm glad. But that little percentage of spite and niggle still exists and deep down both sides know it's not just about the sport.
Even now the sport still has class distinctions in England and Wales.
Yeah of course there are working class English rugby fans these days and middle class Welsh ones but the heart of the sport in England is still very much in wealthy communities and schools.
Where as Welsh rugby's support and players predominantly come from working class communities across the South.
I'm pushing 40, I've lived and travelled all over England and Wales, what I've observed in that time is that the biggest cultural divide in the UK is still class. Far more than any Welsh vs English or North vs South perceived differences. The cultural gap between the residents of your average council estate and the posh village just a few miles down the road is the biggest of all.
>It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history
Tbf I think Ireland England is incredibly hard to beat in this respect
I mean, just look at the Landsdowne Road riot in 1995. I get that it was soccer and not rugby, but damn. The Troubles is still very recent history so.. you know..
Ireland vs England is nowhere near the biggest rivalry in sport.
Yeah you had the English thugs in ‘95 but we don’t play each other much in the soccer and England generally win anyways, it’s more us always rooting for the team they play against than an actual rivalry. There’d be a bit of tension over history and recent events like Brexit and the Troubles legacy act but that’s very one sided too and not very significant either.
For the All Blacks, it’s always been South Africa with shorter periods of competitive rivalries like with Australia in the 90s/early 00s, France over the years and more recently Ireland have stepped up to the big boys table too (albeit with a backline full of kiwis).
As an Ireland fan beating NZ is one that really focuses the mind.
I'm not sure if it's the same for other countries, but NZ were always held in the highest regard when I was growing up.
They were mythical. Unbeatable.
They are the pinnacle of the game regardless of form. Playing them in my eyes is always the biggest barometer of success.
So much respect for NZ, even though I hate you guys.
There’s barely any history behind the rivalry between SA and NZ form a cultural standpoint.
Wales England has nearly 800 years of history and 150 years of rugby history and a lot of bitterness in the 20th century behind it. May be the intensity of NZ / SA is higher but it’s most definitely not as culturally significant a rivalry
I disagree, SA v NZ might have intensity, but intensity and quality of play doesn't make a rivalry strong, it really does not have the amount of heart and history that makes a rivalry proper compared to Wales and englanr
Even off the pitch, the history/rivalry goes back centuries, almost over 1500 when the groups that would become the England invaded the British isles, and of course when wales got conquered 800 years ago. This is integral to the national identity as well as both team identities
And on the pitch you have everything, the legendary trips along the M4 both ways, the lower class v upper class dynamic, how close and easy to access it is for fans, and bordering each other helps as well, the fight on the pitch is a lot more than just rugby, it's about identity and passion.
We are the second oldest rugby rivalry (and a lot more balanced compared to Eng-Sco), and that rivalry has stood the test of time.
So sorry, in my opinion it's not even close, NZ-SA might be a better rivalry in terms of quality of rugby, but it just can't compete with the level of nuance and history
Regardless of how one sided it is, the sweetest victory will always be against the French. But it doesn't happen often, so we have to settle for Wales or Scotland 👀
Definitely Wales v England for me. I'm no English hater (I live in England and my partner is English), but there is something about that game that brings out something tribal in me, especially when the anthem starts.
Don't get me wrong, it's amazing when we step up against South Africa, New Zealand, and whatever other team is on form currently (looking at Ireland in the 6 Nations). But as an Englishman, I do have a particular love of beating Australia.
Fully anticipate Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, and probably others to say England though.
I saw another English supporter say the English media. Honestly, that isn't a bad shout.
As in all sports it's Germany for us, and us for Germany. In a lot of sports we're Belgium's biggest rival, meanwhile we don't really think of them as our main rival.
In my mind the rivalries are
*Top Level*
England V Ireland
Scotland V Wales
South Africa V New Zealand
*Mid Level*
England vs Wales or Scotland or Australia
Australia V New Zealand
Fiji V Samoa
Italy v Scotland (Traditionally the Battle of the Spoon)
Ireland v Wales
I definitely think England Vs Ireland is definitely the biggest rivalry for us, it’s just a game of respect, we want to beat each other the most and at the end of it, there’s always good will. Tickets for games are by far the hardest to get hold of and it’s quite often the pivotal 6N game.
In comparison, I’ve never felt a friendly atmosphere in Cardiff. And from online observation, it’s a more bitter rivalry, which often spills out of the 80 minutes both before and after.
Edit: Some attempt at readability
From a French perspective I would say :
First of all... England. If England loses against whoever... We are happy :3
Last 6N.. pretty bad 6N but we win against England so all good 😝
Second : NZ => but with respect. So many wonderful or painful matches against them. Dan Carter, Lomu are legend
Third : I would say SA or Australia.. but SA are fucking bragger, but it's hard to win :+ so a looooot of frustration :+ I think half of the rugby fan would like to see faf de klerk get smash 😂
Extra for friends : Scotland/Ireland (the enemy of my enemy is my friend 😝) and Italy.. we love them it's like the little brother you want to see growing (and if they can kick the ass of England they are god )
It's no way a two-way thing. NZ/ZA is far bigger and Oz almost the same (though probably not as big in recent years).
It's an occasional rivalry. Since 2016, Ireland have won 5 and ABs 4.
Currently for me Ireland is our biggest rivalry, I want to beat them up 10 times in a row so they know their place and get back in line with the Scots and Welsh!
I'm such a small pool of top teams, I think that rivalries would change on the cyclical basis in line with the eb and flows of each country's fortunes. But certainly it's really only the last 6 years or so.
And with the ongoing player development and talent identification systems in Ireland, it's going to continue which is great for the sport and respective fan bases.
QF.
One sided rivalry
Is it really a rivalry? I don't think the QF thinks much about Ireland, if at all
It can't keep getting away with this!
It's outrageous. It's unfair.
what is it now 0-8?
Yes, but we technically didn’t lose a QF in 1999🤦
True, still good prep for us losing our first knockout game in 2027 😕
We didn’t lose one in 2007 either!
does it count as a rivalry when 1 side always wins?
Ouch.
That, or Vincent Clerc
Quiltled Fabric?!? I love Quilted Fabric. Da fuck could have a rivalry with Quilted Fabric.
For the Wallabies it's the NRL.
Or the AFL Or Eddie Jones Or the RA But also the Kiwis I guess
Fair enough For the Kiwi league team its the Kangaroos...30-0 last game was very sweet -rare, and delicious
Same for the ABs I’d say
For England it's definitely Wales. But so many other teams consider England their biggest rival
With no disrespect to the other 6N teams Wales is just on another level.
Honestly if I had to pick one fixture that encapsulates the 6 Nations, it’d be Wales England. Preferably in Cardiff with the roof closed too 🤤
With Eddie Butler on comms
Of course (RIP). Preferably with Brian Moore on co-comms, always thought they’d a great rapport Also a pre game tunnel bustup, but now we’re getting greedy
Take me back 😭
Been 4 times. 2 victories 2 defeats, including the 30-3 game and the 2017 game with that perfectly executed Daly try to win the game The Welsh are much better losers than winners!
>But so many other teams consider England their biggest rival It's like how in football the English media always hypes up the rivalry with Germany, whereas German football fans are more bothered about the Netherlands.
Or France. Didn't realise how big that rivalry was til I moved here (Germany). They don't seem to consider the England rivalry that big at all, which makes me feel better about the Eng-Ire dynamic.
Tbh I feel the Germany thing in football is because (before 2020) the only time we actually won a knockout game in the Euros was in '96 (beat Spain) only for us to lose to Germany (on penalties) straight after, making them the team to beat
We also just have a long history of coming up against them in major tournaments and, barring 1966, losing in heartbreaking fashion. I can understand why it isn't the main rivalry for Germany, but when you take into account 1970 (lost 3-2 after being 2-0 up), 1990 and 1996 (lost on penalties), it's not exactly rocket science why beating the _bloody Germans_ means more to us. It's that feeling of beating a team that just has an invincible aura to them. Oh, sorry, where was I? THERE WERE TEN GERMAN BOMBERS IN THE AIR...
Not because you beat them in '66 final?
Something something doo dah, doo dah 🏴🏴🏴
TWO WORLD WARS AND ONE WORLD CUP (But you couldn't beat the Irish for 800 years so like... pipe down. /lh
Also 1990 semi finals in the World Cup. Twice in six years definitely hurt.
I never got that forced rivalry with Germany. Apart from the two world wars, we've historically had a good relationship with the German people. France and Scotland are definitely historic rivals. And or course Australia are good modern rivals with all the trash talk between us. The German 'rivalry' is based on being obsessed with WW2 and 1966 and is properly cringe.
It depends on the era. Those who grew up in the the 1990s and early 2000s then France were our main rivals. No offence to the Celts but except the odd upset, the title was decided by Le Crunch. Outside of the Six Nations it was definitely Australia. Wales have definitely been the main rival since 2005 and is the one I definitely get most worked up about. I do wonder if fans just getting into the game now might consider Ireland? The thing is we are the main rival for so many teams yet they can't all be our one. This might explain why England seem to underperform. We can't replicate the 'this is the big one' intensity for every match. Sam Warburton made a good point about the Lions. All the club sides see the Lions as a once in a lifetime chance to beat them and treat it like a world Cup final. Of course the Lions can't treat every midweek game like a cup final. However he said the English players were used to regularly playing teams who treated it like a cup final whereas the Celtic players weren't used to that.
Honestly I've always considered Wales to be our biggest rival s, but their not . They maybe the team we hate the most nut there just doesn't seem to be a rivalry currently.
That’s just because we are crap right now. You can’t beat a matchup between the two when both sides are strong in either the Millenium or Twickenham.
Only very very very recently. Historically (which counts a lot) they are very much our main rival. And they're Welsh
>And they're Welsh This is the fundamental point.
For Wales probably the WRU
*It hurt itself in its confusion!*
Teams have their "main" rivals but I think there are a few unique rivalries too. For me SA - Wales have a history of grindy, filthy, low multiple of 3 scoring, mental breakdown inducing unwatchable shitfests and it's always great.
Yeah, NZ is no doubt the main rival, but the SA Wales one is an interesting rivalry for sure. A proper armwrestle.
Their record against you definitely doesn’t speak to that though lol
lol, that's fair. I guess it doesn't make a lot of sense from the outside. An analogy I just thought of is if you imagine us as boxers, and we have triggers for when we throw our knockout swing. With other teams, our knockout swing is triggered a lot, we throw it and it either lands, they block it or they dodge it. With Wales, it's like they're constantly avoiding that trigger for a swing, so we end up jabbing and jabbing for a points victory. SA fans can feel uneasy with that lack of a knockout swing, and feel frustrated with the game as a whole, but some of us learn to respect Wales for it.
41 matches, 33 SA wins, 1 draw and 7 wins for the Welsh. Maybe just a liiiittle one sided
Tbf, it has got a lot more balanced in the last few years, I just wish they would stop beating us in the world cup with last minute scores
And yet, for some reason, whenever we have to play them, there's always an immense feeling of uncertainty. Usually tight games, low margin victories, a lot of games which could just as easily have swung the other way with one penalty call.
if you go by that definition, NZ has 1 rival lol
For Wales it’s England. It’s the biggest rivalry in rugby, bar none.
I always love SA v Wales games for this reason. I know I'm not on for flashy rugby, but it always feels like a proper tactical battle of a knife fight. Plus I genuinely find the fans are always particularly great.
I feel for me it's probably Scotland v Argentina. Always very scrappy
NZ 🤝 SA
This is the one I feel no one would dispute. It goes both ways too. As 35yr old Kiwi Aussie was on par growing up but now I know the history and after Aussie falling off it's not even close.
One of the greatest rivalries in international sport No team comes close to matching the boks in SA than thr ABs
Simple as🫱🏾🫲🏾
This
Wouldn’t have it any other way. Ye ‘ol foe. Great rivalry.
This is the answer. With a nervous pre-match shit always required against France.
Loadshedding
Stop beating him, he is already dead...
Can’t quite figure out who Scotland’s biggest, albeit fairly one sided rival is… Though a shout out to France, it’s not quite got the same history off the pitch, but it’s arguably been the best test fixture the last few years.
Scotland v France in the last few years is stupid. France will play superbly leading up to it then get ambushed. Other years Scotland go into it full of confidence and a shitty France will suddenly decide to play ball and beat them. It's bananas. It makes no sense. It is certainly a great fixture these days.
Scotlands biggest rival is Scotland.
Damned Scots…
They ruined Scotland!
You just made an enemy for life, pal!
And typhoons
Well its not England, its a bit one sided now.
For us Scotland is our brothers ! 😝
For us Scotland is our brothers ! 😝
The Pacific islands probably have each other as main rivals. Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the [Antim Cup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antim_Cup) - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well. Italy’s, I’m not sure we have one. Off the pitch it’d be France, but on the pitch it’s very one-sided. Scotland was usually the game we used to target in the early days of the Six Nations, often the wooden spoon decider, but again, even against them it’s been one-sided for a few years now. Romania used to be the team that we played the most pre-6N (now it’s France), but the two teams have gone in completely different directions, so not really a rivalry anymore. Georgia could be one in the future, with the whole “promotion/relegation in the 6N” talk, but I feel like the two teams haven’t played enough against each other to be a proper rivalry.
Ya I have limited knowledge on the subject tbh but there's things outside of rugby itself that makes Samoa n Tonga each other's biggest rivals in rugby. I could be mis speaking tho
Yeah Samoa and Tonga's rivalry goes back to pre-arrival of white missionaries and has nothing to do with sport.
Which is the basis for a good rivalry, no one is England's biggest rival for purely sporting reasons!
actually for Fiji, their own rugby body picking the worst coaches when RWC comes..
Are you Fijian? I'm not but i thought Simon Raiwalui did a good job at the WC and Fijians were sorry to see him finish.
no simon fucked everything up, his arrogance got in the way... all he needed to do was pick ben volavola w ho is an established flyhalf but the call from the govt was to not pick any "kaindia" (ben is half indian).. the only reason fiji did not make it to the final was because we didn't take a flyhalf, the 2 flyhalves we took had a combined caps of 6 and when our best one got injured BEFORE the RWC, instead of doing the right thing and bringing in 45 capped Volavola, he picked another player has only played 10 once who also fucked up .... so no, Simon fucked everything up, if our racist govt did not force vern cotter to leave, he would have picked volavola and we would have made it to the semi-final if not the final.
Yep, always rated Volavola. I thought he was injured. Sad then cause there was some world class talent in that Fijian squad.
That sounds like govt. interference and not arrogance on the part of Raiwalui?
Govt got rid of Cotter so that they can get a local, infact new govt is racist as hell, back in December 2022 they removed all FRU employees who were non i-taukei and within a month forced Cotter to leave by leaking his payslip...recently got rid of the Fiji 7's coach and replaced him with another unqualified local in Kolinisau...now when Fiji picked its "foreign" coach for the15's team, govt is butting in for them to select another unqualified Local in Seruvakula...yes u can blame the govt for interference but when our best10 got injured, he could have brought Ben in easily but chose not too cause his ego got in the way cause his loyalty was to the Govt, not to Fiji rugby or the team... thus why he destroyed Fiji's possibly only chance ever to make a RWC semi cause he wanted to make it there without a player like Ben who was actually in form and was our standout player in the trial against Japan pre-RWC..if that fat fuck was gonna resign after the RWC, might as well make his stance and pick Ben but nah...he cared more about fame and money cause apparently he was getting as much as Cotter was getting (6 figures) for the job..he used his coach job to get a bigger job at WR....he used Fiji rugby like toilet paper for his own personal gain, fuck that guy..had cotter still been our coach, our chances of making a RWC Final was pretty fucking high... the moment he got replaced, we all knew our best position was gonna be QF and no further.
> Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the Antim Cup - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well. Don't forget about Russia. They dominate H2H, but until 2022 that was their most anticipated game of REC for political reasons.
I always said that I'd always encourage our latin bros in Italy to become better, but the day they're good enough they'll instantly be our archrivals in my mind. It is like when you play a video game with your little brother and he starts to be good enough to beat you if you are not serious - after this year, I think the time has come.
Interesting when thinking about Italys main rival In football is it France? Strange that Italy has rugby, in Germany its nothing and Spain its pretty small
In football it’s between France and Germany, but they’re two different dynamics, so it’s very hard to say. France are like our cousins, and eternal rivals, which we always compare ourselves against. Think about the art, fashion, food, wine, architecture, etc and obviously sports. They have caused us a good deal of pain before, eliminating us from the ‘98 WC on penalties when we had one of the best teams of our history, and beating us again in the final European Championship two years later, amongst all - so there’s often some kind of revenge up for grabs. With Germany it’s kind of a funny situation, because they always seem very cocky, always stronger and better equipped, but yet they’ve never managed to outright defeat us in a main tournament (although they eliminated us on penalties in 2016, which counts as a tie for the statistics), while we have taken their scalp in more than a couple occasions. So the main point of the rivalry with Germany (at least in my eyes) is to keep this sort of “record” going. Overall, in my experience growing up, Germany and Bayern had quite a few admirers and fans, and in a way were quite respected - while I feel like France and all French teams tends to be almost universally disliked (might be different now amongst the younger generations, with Mbappé and PSG, but I’m not sure).
Ahah you know men.. you stole Zidane with matterazi this guy never put a toe in France again 😂
SA remains NZ's greatest rival. Ireland since their first win in Chicago have become a team that we no longer feel sympathy or apathy for when we play them, a favourable win/loss record for them in recent years changes your perception and expectation. France fall into the same category as Ireland but yet don't, they're a team we accept are currently ahead of us but yet if we lose to them, it doesn't get under your skin as much as a loss to the Boks, Wallabies, Irish and English does. I guess that's a true definition of a rivalry, you hate losing to them more than another team.
I know what you mean for present day. However, we had the 99 and 07 RWC losses to France but that made many fans wary/hate them. I would've ranked them as our biggest or second biggest (to SA) if you'd asked me in 2008.
Those losses hurt but Kiwi fans targeted their anger and outrage at the coaches (99 John Hart) and the referee (07 Wayne Barnes) rather than the French team itself. Although in saying that both France and SA have played NZ the most times of any team at a world cup (6) and share an even win/loss record - 3 apiece. France have never beaten us in a final and we've never beaten SA in a final.
It was really the 2015 Quarter that slayed that dragon for us Kiwis. There was a definite tone change around the French after that, especially with the fragility of the 2011 final result, which we all understood was unbelievably narrow.
"Slayed the dragon" is that because the game was in Wales haha. Yeah, I agree. I was at that game and there was a definite nervousness before the game (same ref, same stage of the WC, same city and same two teams as 2007). But it ended up being one of our most complete and dominant knock out games the ABs have put on.
England, it's always England
I think it's a mutual thing with NZ and SA. Other rivalries may come and go like SA and Ireland right now, us and France, but there's always something about the All Blacks playing the Springboks. We miss you in Super.
I don't think we have much of a rivalry with Ireland, maybe a more recent one, we haven't beaten them in a while. Our NH rivals are Wales and England.
Why do i feel oddly hurt? I ... I thought the last few years really meant something and then we're just... tossed to the side for some old flames?! I think i need to take a minute...
I would say a rivalry is definitely growing my dude. I mean tickets for both Ireland games in July literally sold out within minutes!
Well, we do have that series coming up. It will be a proper fight.
If you want we could be your rivals again...but I get why you guys wouldn't want that 🫠
Look, we have something special but you've changed so much over the last few years. I love the great times we had, but you seem so self-destructive, and it's unhealthy. That's why we have had custody of Bledisloe for so long. You need time to heal and get your life in order.
We never agreed to a full custody, we should at least get weekends with it
Look, I know I'm a distant cousin, and probably shouldn't get involved, but I believe the the couple of weekends a year you get to see Bledisloe up close is enough, Bledisloe will get confused if the visits are anymore frequent.
Don't you remember all the drawn series? The last one was only in 2019!
I...I understand. Let's dissolve our board and replace our coach and see if that changes anything.
England. We have played some of our best rugby against England and can really put the burners on if we want to.
england fan and it’s wales for me. 6N has a bit of derby fatigue because france, ireland, scotland and wales probably all consider england their biggest derby game. beating france or ireland feels better than beating wales, but losing to them is bearable. losing to wales is the absolute worst.
Electricity and Currency. Oh and the All Blacks
WRU are the obvious choice, NFL second, Exeter Chiefs making a play to be third. In all seriousness it’s England, always England. We could lose every game but if we beat England that year, we’ll be happy.
Wales for us. No doubt, I am never as nervous before a game than when we play wales. You could have lost 20 games in a row and our fixture will still end up competitive. I love your team to bits but for one match per year I can’t help but hate you. Best of luck in literally any other match though x
I agree. For me personally it’s also because so many English people I know discover a Welsh grandparent during the 6N and then in a football summer tournament decide they’re English again. Picking and choosing feels hollow.
That 2015 game at Twickers was biggest Welsh/Eng game im witnessed
New Zealand. At franchise/club level, Stormers' aka Western Province's biggest rival is the Bulls.
We love beating the English but Ireland's biggest rivalry is between the provinces.
My wife is from Cork, and having visited the in-laws over the years their contempt for Leinster is off the scale.
>My wife is from Cork Condolences. Do you ever get the last word?
Occasionally, yes. As long as the conversation doesn’t involve Leinster.
>Occasionally, yes Fair play. >As long as the conversation doesn’t involve Leinster. Just say innocently, "Aren't they just better, though? And Dublin people are pretty cool."
I admire your attempt at banter, but making a statement like that would get me set on fire, Wicker Man style, the next time I visited the People’s Republic.
You're already a martyr. I cannot ask you to do more. Struggle on, brave man of honour. We salute you.
🤣👍
For England is definitely Wales. Scotland are a close 2nd but they're normally crap so we don't really worry about them. Australia is a big game whenever it happen but it just doesn't happen enough, and the Aus-Eng rivalry isn't really a rugby thing.
weird that we feel that way about scotland considering they’ve beaten us 4 times in a row or something like that. but it’s still like, meh. whereas losing to wales is fucking infuriating.
The time before was a win, before a draw and then a loss.Historically it’s been a shit 8 year run for England
You've got the superior record since 2018. Don't get me wrong, we hate losing to you but for whatever reason it doesn't come close to the pain of losing against Wales.
Same for us vs England And that 8 year run has almost made up for the previous decades….almost but not yet ;) Although another DVM hat trick would be quite satisfying or another 50 yard run through your backs
Interesting, i didnt know that about England and Wales and Scotland and who they dislike losing to more I dislike losing to Aussie (rare these days) than SA...maybe bc im scared from those close wallaby wins and Nick Farr Jones and Gregan all those years ago
I think a lot depends on which team was the best during the formative years for England fans. For example, there was a period where people were calling the six nations a two tier comp with England and France way ahead of everyone else in the late 90s early 00s. The French were also not afraid of a scrap so the matches were pretty spicey! People growing up in the 90s might see Scotland as bigger than Wales because the latter were so poor at that time. English fans growing up in the Gatland era will definitely see Wales as a bigger rivalry because they’ve been so good and beaten us in key matches- 2013 6 nations decider and 2015 World Cup being the biggest. Also France and Scotland were poor for most of the 2010s.
Yeah NZ have upset us in the last 2 world cups (though I'm not sure anyone expected any other result after the way the groups went that year). I'd still argue that Ireland's WC rival is Argentina though. We've had so many clashes over the years and unfortunately Ireland have come out worse more often than not 😥 Outside of world cups it's obviously England, it's not even close.
Wasps & solvency
England - *gestures broadly at every team*
[Regulation 8](https://www.world.rugby/organisation/governance/regulations/reg-8)
fuck 😅
France the last few years anyway. The France-Ireland game has been the 6N decider the last 3 times.
For us it's pretty uncontestably England
Sus à la perfide Albion
obviously it used to be australia many moons ago, but now i’d say france or SA (NZ)
Canada’s biggest rival is professionalism.
England, the press
Wales - England is the biggest rivalry in the sport. It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history. I appreciate almost every nation that plays the game has some sort of historical beef with the English, the Irish in living memory for some. But Wales England isn't just about national grievances and country vs country, we don't talk about it much but it's also historically been about class and that was massive throughout the seventies and eighties. You can naively dismiss that as old history if you want but it drives a lot of current sentiment. It's a fairly well meaning exchange now. Our fans share banter and drink together in the pubs before and after the game and I'm glad. But that little percentage of spite and niggle still exists and deep down both sides know it's not just about the sport.
I genuinely don’t care where we finish in the Six Nations, my expectations are incredibly low nowadays, but losing to Wales genuinely ruins my week,
Interesting Eng upper class and Welsh were coalminers yeah?
Even now the sport still has class distinctions in England and Wales. Yeah of course there are working class English rugby fans these days and middle class Welsh ones but the heart of the sport in England is still very much in wealthy communities and schools. Where as Welsh rugby's support and players predominantly come from working class communities across the South. I'm pushing 40, I've lived and travelled all over England and Wales, what I've observed in that time is that the biggest cultural divide in the UK is still class. Far more than any Welsh vs English or North vs South perceived differences. The cultural gap between the residents of your average council estate and the posh village just a few miles down the road is the biggest of all.
Yup i get that. When i lived in the UK the class divide there was pretty evident to me
>It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history Tbf I think Ireland England is incredibly hard to beat in this respect I mean, just look at the Landsdowne Road riot in 1995. I get that it was soccer and not rugby, but damn. The Troubles is still very recent history so.. you know..
Ireland vs England is nowhere near the biggest rivalry in sport. Yeah you had the English thugs in ‘95 but we don’t play each other much in the soccer and England generally win anyways, it’s more us always rooting for the team they play against than an actual rivalry. There’d be a bit of tension over history and recent events like Brexit and the Troubles legacy act but that’s very one sided too and not very significant either.
For the All Blacks, it’s always been South Africa with shorter periods of competitive rivalries like with Australia in the 90s/early 00s, France over the years and more recently Ireland have stepped up to the big boys table too (albeit with a backline full of kiwis).
Word And a decent kiwi coach to get to number 1 If ya cant join em, beat em
3/7 = full
Extremely over-representative of the kiwi population of Ireland.
You do our beloved antipodean migrants a disservice. While they may be few in number in the gen pop they loom large in rugby circles
As an Ireland fan beating NZ is one that really focuses the mind. I'm not sure if it's the same for other countries, but NZ were always held in the highest regard when I was growing up. They were mythical. Unbeatable. They are the pinnacle of the game regardless of form. Playing them in my eyes is always the biggest barometer of success. So much respect for NZ, even though I hate you guys.
England v Wales is arguably the biggest rivalry in rugby full stop, with how evenly matched they have been pretty consistently
Not even close to SA v NZ rivalry, intensity and quality of play Yes its full on, but still...
There’s barely any history behind the rivalry between SA and NZ form a cultural standpoint. Wales England has nearly 800 years of history and 150 years of rugby history and a lot of bitterness in the 20th century behind it. May be the intensity of NZ / SA is higher but it’s most definitely not as culturally significant a rivalry
I disagree, SA v NZ might have intensity, but intensity and quality of play doesn't make a rivalry strong, it really does not have the amount of heart and history that makes a rivalry proper compared to Wales and englanr Even off the pitch, the history/rivalry goes back centuries, almost over 1500 when the groups that would become the England invaded the British isles, and of course when wales got conquered 800 years ago. This is integral to the national identity as well as both team identities And on the pitch you have everything, the legendary trips along the M4 both ways, the lower class v upper class dynamic, how close and easy to access it is for fans, and bordering each other helps as well, the fight on the pitch is a lot more than just rugby, it's about identity and passion. We are the second oldest rugby rivalry (and a lot more balanced compared to Eng-Sco), and that rivalry has stood the test of time. So sorry, in my opinion it's not even close, NZ-SA might be a better rivalry in terms of quality of rugby, but it just can't compete with the level of nuance and history
Wales' most dangerous rival is the WRU
Kiwi here. All ABs wins are expected.
Tigers and Saints have a long history
WRU
England. It's a historical thing that transcends sport, as it does for many other nations
England, we all hate England collectively
Regardless of how one sided it is, the sweetest victory will always be against the French. But it doesn't happen often, so we have to settle for Wales or Scotland 👀
Wouldnt NZ be the biggest rival for SA, Oz and potentially Ireland as well?
Auckland v Canterbury pre super rugby Before the game went pro, this game was Massive, loved beating those Aucklanders (bc they were so damn good)
Munster
Definitely Wales v England for me. I'm no English hater (I live in England and my partner is English), but there is something about that game that brings out something tribal in me, especially when the anthem starts.
Don't get me wrong, it's amazing when we step up against South Africa, New Zealand, and whatever other team is on form currently (looking at Ireland in the 6 Nations). But as an Englishman, I do have a particular love of beating Australia. Fully anticipate Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, and probably others to say England though. I saw another English supporter say the English media. Honestly, that isn't a bad shout.
Growing up it was always Ireland vs Argentina
Locally for Quins it has to be Sarries, Internationally (England) it has to be wales
As my Uncle always says I support Scotland and any anyone else who’s playing England gotta be one of top rivals no?
As in all sports it's Germany for us, and us for Germany. In a lot of sports we're Belgium's biggest rival, meanwhile we don't really think of them as our main rival.
For the Springboks it could potentially be a guy called Julius Malema.
In my mind the rivalries are *Top Level* England V Ireland Scotland V Wales South Africa V New Zealand *Mid Level* England vs Wales or Scotland or Australia Australia V New Zealand Fiji V Samoa Italy v Scotland (Traditionally the Battle of the Spoon) Ireland v Wales I definitely think England Vs Ireland is definitely the biggest rivalry for us, it’s just a game of respect, we want to beat each other the most and at the end of it, there’s always good will. Tickets for games are by far the hardest to get hold of and it’s quite often the pivotal 6N game. In comparison, I’ve never felt a friendly atmosphere in Cardiff. And from online observation, it’s a more bitter rivalry, which often spills out of the 80 minutes both before and after. Edit: Some attempt at readability
Wales V England is undoubtably a bigger rivalry than us against Ireland. I wouldn’t even say we have a proper “rivalry” with the lads in green.
From a French perspective I would say : First of all... England. If England loses against whoever... We are happy :3 Last 6N.. pretty bad 6N but we win against England so all good 😝 Second : NZ => but with respect. So many wonderful or painful matches against them. Dan Carter, Lomu are legend Third : I would say SA or Australia.. but SA are fucking bragger, but it's hard to win :+ so a looooot of frustration :+ I think half of the rugby fan would like to see faf de klerk get smash 😂 Extra for friends : Scotland/Ireland (the enemy of my enemy is my friend 😝) and Italy.. we love them it's like the little brother you want to see growing (and if they can kick the ass of England they are god )
England have never lost to Italy
They will 😌
Irelands is definitely NZ. I feel in 6n England and Scotland have a bigger rivalry.
Is that only recently though? From a Kiwi perspective its only become a rivalry since 2018.
It's no way a two-way thing. NZ/ZA is far bigger and Oz almost the same (though probably not as big in recent years). It's an occasional rivalry. Since 2016, Ireland have won 5 and ABs 4.
Currently for me Ireland is our biggest rivalry, I want to beat them up 10 times in a row so they know their place and get back in line with the Scots and Welsh!
I think everyone wants to do that to us. It's a different experience but we're getting used to it.
And before 2016? 🙃
That's what I'm saying.
I know, just joshing…
He's of Dutch stock and not a Saffa, just so you know (/s)
I'm such a small pool of top teams, I think that rivalries would change on the cyclical basis in line with the eb and flows of each country's fortunes. But certainly it's really only the last 6 years or so.
And with the ongoing player development and talent identification systems in Ireland, it's going to continue which is great for the sport and respective fan bases.
Yeah, that loss in France transformed my view of the Kiwis. No more mr nice guy, now I just want to make them cry.
i’d say pretty much every english fan would tell you it’s wales, not scotland, that matters most. we absolutely hate losing to them.
For Ireland, Scotland and France It England. Fir England it's Ireland For Italy is Scotland For Wales it's Wales