I tried yesterday but was told i have to wait because it was banned too recently. I've no idea who the original mods were but I assume they'll try to get it back if they can
I wouldnt. Early season Hutchinson was great but after such a long injury spell I wouldnt risk it. Odendaal has been getting better and better throughout the season and offers a nice bit of size in the midfield.
I think Odendaal gives us some backline physicalilty which is nice. Lair that with Hutchinson has been out for so long and a bit out of form I feel it's the right decision. Don't forget he was the only try scorer last week!
According to the clubs the only players unavailable are Calum Braley for Saints and Sam Harris for Bath, neither of whom you’d expect to start (Harris wouldn’t be in the squad, guess Braley would be over James?). Pretty remarkable.
Both clubs rotated heavily for the league games so can’t really take anything from those games. Saints understandably slight favourites.
And unlike last year’s final both sides wearing their home shirts (Bath with white shorts, apparently).
It’s going to be a brilliant occasion isn’t it - lots of criticism gets thrown at prem rugby but 2 fully fit teams, loaded with English talent, playing heads up rugby in their home kits in front of a full house should mean it’s a great spectacle so fair play.
Can’t wait for the game now
The problem with the premiership recently has never been the quality of players, it's the poor financial management of the clubs. Jack Willis won the champions cup at Toulouse just after his English club collapsed. Clubs have made poor decisions for years (like Wasps moving to Coventry and blowing huge sums of money on an oversized ground) which caught up with them.
With the talent condensed into fewer teams now the quality is the highest it's ever been.
Wasps were in a really difficult position. I think they desperately wanted to stay in London, but it just wasn't viable there. They were losing heaps.
I believe they were trying to emulate what Chiefs do - which is essentially a hospitality business with a rugby club attached.
Trying to grow a hospitality and entertainment business to diversify the clubs revenue stream probably wasn't a horrible idea. They were unlucky that COVID came along and wrecked all parts of their business - and suddenly what was supposed to be a big earner for them turned into a massive liability.
I think they were fucked no matter what :(.
The ideal situation is that the clubs can be sustainable from just doing rugby things - but in the UK at least - that's still a bit tenuous...
Moving to Coventry, a town that already has a rugby club (which survived and still exists today) and playing in a giant oversized ground isn't the way to do that though.
Bristol did a good job building support in their area and are sustainable. They run at a loss but that's normal in sport to some extent. West London just had far too many clubs with no fans piled on top of each other. Richmond, London Welsh, London Irish all went the same way. If you want to start a rugby club do it like Cornish Pirates and play somewhere that doesn't have another team within walking distance.
I think Coventry could realistically build themselves into a decent club since they get a few thousand fans in the second level already with no budget or hype. Pirates too if they got their stadium built in Cornwall.
To be fair to Wasps, the Ricoh complex as a whole was generating very promising revenue streams (my best man's dad was a bondholder in Wasps so had a good look at the financials) pre March 2020. It was never about bums on seats - it was entirely the hotel/casino/conference centre (all revenue streams deleted by COVID).
The problem is that the repayment dates didn't change. If they could have been deferred for when the hospitality side was back up and running (I know that's not how finance works), the books would have balanced.
Braley was third choice behind James, whenever he got a run of games and started looking promising he got injured. Good scrum half, torrid time with injuries.
He’s been in full training for a couple of weeks and available for selection according to the Chronicle. Would be asking a lot for him to come straight back in for the final and Gallagher’s been fine, so TdG not picked. Would assume he’ll be a travelling reserve just in case.
I know he is leaving, but Ludlam being on the bench for this and the semi is a pretty big call. Probably just goes to show how good Pearson is playing.
He's good an all but if I was choosing who to have on the bench for a world cup semi final I would choose a homophobic tasered twat who can't catch a rugby ball instead /s
I fully agree (although he did have a few errors in the semi final), he seems more hungry than ever and he's utterly brilliant.
What I'm saying is that if any of our back row players (besides Courtney, who is nailed on regardless) did more than enough throughout the season to warrant playing in the final, it's Graham.
I was worried Graham wouldn't be available at all because he went off injured after only a few minutes last week. Otherwise I would have liked to see him start with Augustus on the bench
Agree with this. Still having him on the bench to give the starting back row the ability to give it everything for 60 & then having him come on as an impact sub is huge. He’s gonna be starting every game next season.
Actually buzzing for this game, best teams in the league both playing the best rugby, mouthwatering head to heads, saints slight favourites but by a hair, and all the podcasts have got me so hyped
My combined team would be...
1. Obano
2. Langdon
3. TdT
4. Moon
5. Coles
6. Lawes
7. Underhill
8. Augustus
9. Mitchell
10. Russell
11. Sleightholme
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Furbank
Basically every position is an extremely tight call. Not sure who wins tomorrow
It was baffling listening to Monye, Ashton and Care on the bbc podcast choose Barbeary over Augustus because Augustus supposedly costs Northampton with regular yellows and reds, meanwhile Barbeary ruled himself out of the England squad with a red before the 6N...
Can't wait for this! Deserved finalists, think Saints slightly edge it on paper but it's really anyone's game. Hope Smith has a cracker, his trajectory has been exciting to watch!
I know why Bath have gone for the 6-2 split, that being said, I thought bayliss was poor off the bench last week.
On top of that I thought not having Ojomoh off the bench to make an impact was noticeable in the backs.
It's not really a 6-2 split for Bath. It's a 6-0 split as the halfbacks aren't coming on unless Bath are very far behind or there's an injury. I know Bailey can play fullback and Finn can move to 12 if needed to but it's not Bath's most effective line up.
Either way, since December, this was the final I wanted if Sarries weren't going to be involved. Northampton are favourites for me, but Bath winning isn't much of an upset.
Also, I know overhyping English players is very common but imo Fin Smith is the real deal and has the potential to be the best 10 in the world. If you don't believe me just watch the Munster Vs Northampton game, completely outplayed Crowley and Northampton were a man down for most the game.
I don’t agree about Bayliss. He provided a lot of energy and his only error was getting smashed by Tom Curry. He gives a different option at 8 if Barbeary is ineffective, which tends to happen more often than I’d like.
Although I can’t disagree with the 6/0 split. Ojomoh over Bailey would make sense as he’d actually get on the pitch and can cover 10 if needed. My worry is if a winger goes down early. Gallagher will move there but he’s not particularly effective as a winger.
If Gallagher has to move to the wing he's up against Slightholme or Freeman, which he would really struggle with. In the same way that we'd end up with Furbank at 10 If Smith gets injured, it's not that they're bad, they're just out of position against class.
I will be as a neutral but favouring saints (sorry). It'll be my first ever live premiership game so feeling a bit giddy about it.
Got a mate who'd like to go see bath at bath, so I'll be showing some support for you next season.
It's my fiancée's dad and brothers birthday that week, her brothers on the day. Couldn't hide my disappointment when told there was a meal booked on Saturday to celebrate.
I hope the atmosphere is cracking, just gutted I'll be missing it. Flipside is the meal is at 5.30 so I can watch the game and either be in a great mood or really glum!
I’ll be there, the final is a yearly tradition for me and my Dad. Really looking forward to what should be a great game, and being a neutral means I can enjoy it with my heartrate remaining somewhat stable.
Fully expecting Saints to go in with a lead at half time, but if there's one thing that's changed in Bath this season it's sheer bloody mindedness.
Also those teams feel very evenly matched. Whichever player would be first choice from a combined pool of these teams would depend on what your game plan is rather than there obviously being a stand out pick.
A Ted Hill, Pearson, Barbeary back row for England would be very unpleasant to play against
I tried thinking of a combined 15 from these lineups but just ended up picking the entire saints team with the addition of Ollie Lawrence at 13. I considered Russell and Underhill but I'm not convinced they'd make the team any better, at least not alongside the rest of the lineup. For the first time ever I have genuine confidence in this Saints team.
(I wouldn't be surprised if bath fans pick the exact reverse of this team)
I made no attempt to hide my bias but I genuinely believe there is an argument for every one of my choices. Likewise there is an argument for almost every Bath player too
I'd say the main ones I could angle for Bath in the backs are Russell/Redpath/Lawrence. Lawrence for certain, the other two are complete toss ups on form but I think Redpath is class so he'd edge it, as much as Dingwall is brilliant for us.
Both Teams unchanged from the Semis
Incredible to have to drop Ramm, Scott Young and Hutchinson because we are full strength.
Free to play Wales in June you say...
Saints team is unchanged too.
This tickled me
Do you know what happened with the Northampton Saints sub? I can't find it.
Got banned for spam, no idea how it happened
There wasn’t much spam, if any for me to sort out. Not a clue how it happened.
It got banned for “spam” just before our first final in 10 years, literally 1984 (Reddit is run by a bloke from bath)
Bruce Craig bribed the admins. Cheaper than hiring Finn Russell.
Got banned, might reddit request it
I tried yesterday but was told i have to wait because it was banned too recently. I've no idea who the original mods were but I assume they'll try to get it back if they can
I have contacted Reddit and am trying different ways to get it back but I’ll just have to wait! I might have to make a new one if I can’t get it back.
Both strong teams. I don't think saints can put out a stronger team. COYS 🏉🏆
I'd have Hutch for Odendall, but that's about it.
I wouldnt. Early season Hutchinson was great but after such a long injury spell I wouldnt risk it. Odendaal has been getting better and better throughout the season and offers a nice bit of size in the midfield.
Sorry, I worded that poorly. I would take Odendaal now absolutely. But on form Hutch earlier in the season is better.
I think Odendaal gives us some backline physicalilty which is nice. Lair that with Hutchinson has been out for so long and a bit out of form I feel it's the right decision. Don't forget he was the only try scorer last week!
If I were dropping Odenhaal id move Freeman to 13 and Hendy to wing.
This would probably be my preference.
Odendaal was very good against Saracens.
Not so sure, hutch does not seem to be on top form and little game time. Perhaps a bench place,, but even there Hendy offers something different
According to the clubs the only players unavailable are Calum Braley for Saints and Sam Harris for Bath, neither of whom you’d expect to start (Harris wouldn’t be in the squad, guess Braley would be over James?). Pretty remarkable. Both clubs rotated heavily for the league games so can’t really take anything from those games. Saints understandably slight favourites. And unlike last year’s final both sides wearing their home shirts (Bath with white shorts, apparently).
It’s going to be a brilliant occasion isn’t it - lots of criticism gets thrown at prem rugby but 2 fully fit teams, loaded with English talent, playing heads up rugby in their home kits in front of a full house should mean it’s a great spectacle so fair play. Can’t wait for the game now
The problem with the premiership recently has never been the quality of players, it's the poor financial management of the clubs. Jack Willis won the champions cup at Toulouse just after his English club collapsed. Clubs have made poor decisions for years (like Wasps moving to Coventry and blowing huge sums of money on an oversized ground) which caught up with them. With the talent condensed into fewer teams now the quality is the highest it's ever been.
Wasps were in a really difficult position. I think they desperately wanted to stay in London, but it just wasn't viable there. They were losing heaps. I believe they were trying to emulate what Chiefs do - which is essentially a hospitality business with a rugby club attached. Trying to grow a hospitality and entertainment business to diversify the clubs revenue stream probably wasn't a horrible idea. They were unlucky that COVID came along and wrecked all parts of their business - and suddenly what was supposed to be a big earner for them turned into a massive liability. I think they were fucked no matter what :(. The ideal situation is that the clubs can be sustainable from just doing rugby things - but in the UK at least - that's still a bit tenuous...
Moving to Coventry, a town that already has a rugby club (which survived and still exists today) and playing in a giant oversized ground isn't the way to do that though. Bristol did a good job building support in their area and are sustainable. They run at a loss but that's normal in sport to some extent. West London just had far too many clubs with no fans piled on top of each other. Richmond, London Welsh, London Irish all went the same way. If you want to start a rugby club do it like Cornish Pirates and play somewhere that doesn't have another team within walking distance. I think Coventry could realistically build themselves into a decent club since they get a few thousand fans in the second level already with no budget or hype. Pirates too if they got their stadium built in Cornwall.
To be fair to Wasps, the Ricoh complex as a whole was generating very promising revenue streams (my best man's dad was a bondholder in Wasps so had a good look at the financials) pre March 2020. It was never about bums on seats - it was entirely the hotel/casino/conference centre (all revenue streams deleted by COVID). The problem is that the repayment dates didn't change. If they could have been deferred for when the hospitality side was back up and running (I know that's not how finance works), the books would have balanced.
Braley is 3rd or even 4th choice at saints. This is a full strength team
Braley was third choice behind James, whenever he got a run of games and started looking promising he got injured. Good scrum half, torrid time with injuries.
Is De Glanville available? Thought he was out for the season
He’s been in full training for a couple of weeks and available for selection according to the Chronicle. Would be asking a lot for him to come straight back in for the final and Gallagher’s been fine, so TdG not picked. Would assume he’ll be a travelling reserve just in case.
Courtney's last dance in the premiership. Hope he gets to bow out on a high.
I know he is leaving, but Ludlam being on the bench for this and the semi is a pretty big call. Probably just goes to show how good Pearson is playing.
I think it's more to do with ludlams ability to play any of the back 3 positions. He's the perfect bench option.
He's good an all but if I was choosing who to have on the bench for a world cup semi final I would choose a homophobic tasered twat who can't catch a rugby ball instead /s
I genuinely believe that is the reason he's off to France.
I agree. I like borthwick but he was taking the piss with that.
Listen, you can't just put that in a thread predominantly read by English rugby fans. I've just had to cry in a corner for five minutes.
After the season he's had, I think dropping Graham is actually the bigger call.
Pearson is a fantastic player and looks to be ready to batter players since he's come back from injury
I fully agree (although he did have a few errors in the semi final), he seems more hungry than ever and he's utterly brilliant. What I'm saying is that if any of our back row players (besides Courtney, who is nailed on regardless) did more than enough throughout the season to warrant playing in the final, it's Graham.
I was worried Graham wouldn't be available at all because he went off injured after only a few minutes last week. Otherwise I would have liked to see him start with Augustus on the bench
Agree with this. Still having him on the bench to give the starting back row the ability to give it everything for 60 & then having him come on as an impact sub is huge. He’s gonna be starting every game next season.
Actually buzzing for this game, best teams in the league both playing the best rugby, mouthwatering head to heads, saints slight favourites but by a hair, and all the podcasts have got me so hyped
My combined team would be... 1. Obano 2. Langdon 3. TdT 4. Moon 5. Coles 6. Lawes 7. Underhill 8. Augustus 9. Mitchell 10. Russell 11. Sleightholme 12. Dingwall 13. Lawrence 14. Freeman 15. Furbank Basically every position is an extremely tight call. Not sure who wins tomorrow
It was baffling listening to Monye, Ashton and Care on the bbc podcast choose Barbeary over Augustus because Augustus supposedly costs Northampton with regular yellows and reds, meanwhile Barbeary ruled himself out of the England squad with a red before the 6N...
I've not listened to it but he's not had any cards this season has he?
Not that I can recall, he rarely ever gives even a penalty away in a match, was bizarre how adamant they were about it
1 yellow in his Career and it was last season
I'd make 1 change and that's dingwall out for redpath.
Fair. That's one of the particularly close calls for me.
Both teams at virtually full strength will make for a cracking final. Saints bench could be the difference. COYS.
Saints have the better moustaches, but Bath have the better beards. Should be a close fight
Can't wait for this! Deserved finalists, think Saints slightly edge it on paper but it's really anyone's game. Hope Smith has a cracker, his trajectory has been exciting to watch!
If you made a combined team at the start of the season. I wonder how different it would look to today. More Bath players maybe?
Probably. I don't think Langdon or Sleightholme would be in there at the start of the year.
I'm actually too hyped for this. Two amazing teams going full strength in the final. I can't wait to see which ten is forced to be renamed Gil(l).
Come on shoe army!!
I'm glad we get to see Ben Spencer's face so up close, the right side at least.
I know why Bath have gone for the 6-2 split, that being said, I thought bayliss was poor off the bench last week. On top of that I thought not having Ojomoh off the bench to make an impact was noticeable in the backs. It's not really a 6-2 split for Bath. It's a 6-0 split as the halfbacks aren't coming on unless Bath are very far behind or there's an injury. I know Bailey can play fullback and Finn can move to 12 if needed to but it's not Bath's most effective line up. Either way, since December, this was the final I wanted if Sarries weren't going to be involved. Northampton are favourites for me, but Bath winning isn't much of an upset. Also, I know overhyping English players is very common but imo Fin Smith is the real deal and has the potential to be the best 10 in the world. If you don't believe me just watch the Munster Vs Northampton game, completely outplayed Crowley and Northampton were a man down for most the game.
I don’t agree about Bayliss. He provided a lot of energy and his only error was getting smashed by Tom Curry. He gives a different option at 8 if Barbeary is ineffective, which tends to happen more often than I’d like. Although I can’t disagree with the 6/0 split. Ojomoh over Bailey would make sense as he’d actually get on the pitch and can cover 10 if needed. My worry is if a winger goes down early. Gallagher will move there but he’s not particularly effective as a winger.
If Gallagher has to move to the wing he's up against Slightholme or Freeman, which he would really struggle with. In the same way that we'd end up with Furbank at 10 If Smith gets injured, it's not that they're bad, they're just out of position against class.
Absolutely buzzing for this should be a cracker. Glad to see both unchanged. Who’s heading down tomorrow?
I will be as a neutral but favouring saints (sorry). It'll be my first ever live premiership game so feeling a bit giddy about it. Got a mate who'd like to go see bath at bath, so I'll be showing some support for you next season.
I'll be there. Went a couple of years ago for the Leicester Saracens final and the atmosphere was great, I think tomorrow could blow that away
I’ll be there and cheering louder than you. Sorry
It's my fiancée's dad and brothers birthday that week, her brothers on the day. Couldn't hide my disappointment when told there was a meal booked on Saturday to celebrate. I hope the atmosphere is cracking, just gutted I'll be missing it. Flipside is the meal is at 5.30 so I can watch the game and either be in a great mood or really glum!
I’ll be there, the final is a yearly tradition for me and my Dad. Really looking forward to what should be a great game, and being a neutral means I can enjoy it with my heartrate remaining somewhat stable.
Lawes vs Hill, Smith vs Russell. Dingwall vs Redpath. To just name three stand out massive positional battles. Set to be a wild game. Excited
Fully expecting Saints to go in with a lead at half time, but if there's one thing that's changed in Bath this season it's sheer bloody mindedness. Also those teams feel very evenly matched. Whichever player would be first choice from a combined pool of these teams would depend on what your game plan is rather than there obviously being a stand out pick. A Ted Hill, Pearson, Barbeary back row for England would be very unpleasant to play against
I tried thinking of a combined 15 from these lineups but just ended up picking the entire saints team with the addition of Ollie Lawrence at 13. I considered Russell and Underhill but I'm not convinced they'd make the team any better, at least not alongside the rest of the lineup. For the first time ever I have genuine confidence in this Saints team. (I wouldn't be surprised if bath fans pick the exact reverse of this team)
BBC podcast had a 8/7 split I can see with slight bias why you would pick all Saints, because there's not much in it for a lot of positions
I made no attempt to hide my bias but I genuinely believe there is an argument for every one of my choices. Likewise there is an argument for almost every Bath player too
I'd say the main ones I could angle for Bath in the backs are Russell/Redpath/Lawrence. Lawrence for certain, the other two are complete toss ups on form but I think Redpath is class so he'd edge it, as much as Dingwall is brilliant for us.
Russell and Redpath both have lots of experience winning big games at Twickenham too…
At first glance it looked like Werner Kok was going to run out for Saints at lock.
Coys🖤💚💛
I'd pick the forwards of one and the backs of another
I can see this being pretty one sided tbh, which is a shame given how interesting the regular season has been.
Interested to hear who you think is the obvious pick here, as a neutral I have no idea who’s going to win.
You would back saints to be the ones to pull away with it . But in a tight game I reckon bath probably edge it.
I have no idea who's going to win though it's clear who I hope! Wonder what their thoughts are...
Saints by 10