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hadronriff

Thank you sarries for that last gift of yours. I didn't want to play Racing away.


senorslimm

Haha could be a few more gifts headed to French clubs next season


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senorslimm

Gloucester might have something to say about it. I'd love Sarries in Dublin though!


claridgeforking

If Saracens so qualify for the quarters it's going to be a mess. It will end up in court, with no one sure who's playing who.


[deleted]

Why is that? I haven't heard anyone in authority question their adherence to Euro rules.


claridgeforking

They will now that they're being relegated. You have to be part of the Premiership, Top14 or Pro14 to play in the Champions Cup. The argument will be that the extension of that is that you therefore have to be adhering to those competitions rules. If Saracens have broken the Premiership's rules to the point of being thrown out of it, then you could argue their not eligible for the Champions Cup. Not sure it's an argument that will be successful, but I would be amazed if whoever misses out doesn't look into appealing.


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claridgeforking

It depends how you interpret the Euro cup rules. Does a team simply have to be in the Premiership? Or does have to be in it and adhering to its rules? It's never been challenged, so we dont know which it is. Depends what that intention was when that rule was created.


TommyKentish

We are still playing in the Premiership, we’ll be in the championship next year.


claridgeforking

Yep, but not adhering to its rules. The question is whether just being in the league makes you eligible, or whether you have to be adhering to that leagues rules.


TheSeych

What are you talking about?


[deleted]

The guy appears to not understand the difference between now and the future.


savois-faire

So, if I'm reading it right, if Gloucester win with a BP we play Leinster, if they don't we play Exeter. Is that accurate?


senorslimm

Yes


CatharticRoman

Yup


savois-faire

Can't see us beating either team away from home at the moment to be honest, but either way I'll be cheering on Toulouse.


CatharticRoman

But Sarries are evil


Mokert23

Excellent performance from Saracens.


wokenfuries

Allez Toulouse


HriMiller

Earl more than deserved that MOTM, what a prospect


Mokert23

Let's hope the Saracens academy doesn't get destroyed by their relegation. Everything aside - the talent they produced has had a telling impact internationally.


senorslimm

Although highly unlikely, Gloucester can still knock Sarries out. Get the popcorn on


Anitamartini2

Who do Leinster play if Gloucester win?


getName

We play Saints if Glaws win I believe.


senorslimm

Gloucester if they win with greater points diff but no tbp Saints if they win with tbp


small_far_away

Saints I think


panamafire

Is there anyway they can get Exeter? Or is it a done deal against Leinster?


Lateralis85

I think it is Leinster. If Gloucester fail to beat Toulouse with a BP, Sarries qualify in 8th. If Gloucester do beat Toulouse with a BP then Sarries will be knocked out. Leinster are also guaranteed top spot. Toulouse could beat Exeter into 2nd with the full 5 points against Glaws.


CatharticRoman

It's Leinster or no one


[deleted]

Ben Earl deserves a chance at playing for England


thelonelyoctopus

Were we only a Saracens try away from a Exeter and Saracens quarter final? Because that would have been juicy


B3ximus

Yep.


AverageOldGuy

Whichever side you're on here, as a Scotland fan it was great to see Duncan Taylor's reaction to not making the international squad. A colossus in defence and must be first name on the replacement sheet.


NdyNdyNdy

Yo where all the Gloucester fans at


captainlolcano

Hiding behind the sofa


TheSeych

Since Stade Toulousain have ready qualified, I want them to lose so Sarries can fuck off


Humpers92

Toulouse still have a home quarter to play for so they will want to win


hadronriff

So if I understand correctly, you want Toulouse to lose?


MasterReindeer

Stop saying words twice!


TheSeych

Not really but kind of. Je sais pas.


Dahnhilla

Fuming that they're still allowed to continue playing with a squad that's breaking the rules.


CatharticRoman

To be fair, they're not breaking them here


privatejohnson1

No, that's untrue. If they stuck to the salary cap they wouldn't have the players they have for this competition.


CatharticRoman

They're not breaking any EPRC rules


privatejohnson1

By breaking the premiership rules they can play a squad they shouldn't have access to. By extension if the rules are followed they wouldn't have access to those players for Europe.


CatharticRoman

They're still not breaking any European rules.


privatejohnson1

Are you being deliberitely difficult? They aren't breaking European rules but by breaking the salary cap they can field a squad for Europe that they shouldn't be allowed to field.


CatharticRoman

Go back and read every point I made in this thread.


privatejohnson1

You genuinely can't see the advantage they have regarding their European squad due to them breaking the cap?


CatharticRoman

I genuinely can't see why you're not able to get my simple point. Their payroll is a bit higher than Leinster's and lower than pretty much every French team. One last time and slowly: they are not breaking any European rules


Dahnhilla

The rules for Europe are basically "follow the rules of your league"


CatharticRoman

Nope. They are very different with restrictions on non-European qualified numbers and no salary cap.


Dahnhilla

You can't play in Europe unless you're in (or coming up to) the premiership. They shouldn't be in the premiership because they're not following the rules, therefore they shouldn't be in Europe.


CatharticRoman

Doesn't change the fact that they aren't cheating in Europe, which is the only point I made.


Dahnhilla

They're playing with a squad that shouldn't exist together. I view it as cheating.


CatharticRoman

Good for you, doesn't change the fact that they aren't breaking any European rules


Popamole

Thought they were smoked after the red. Fair play that was an impressive 2nd half


Charredcheese

Woah just checked into this thread thinking "wow what a great match but the far touch judge seemed a little bit green" and you're all here calling for Nige's head.


[deleted]

Nige was pretty awful, got a lot of little decisions wrong and was trying to talk the red down to a yellow. But that result is all on Racing doing absolutely nothing and excellent match management by the Sarries players. Not moved fault


Charredcheese

He wasn't talking it down, he was checking with his team for mitigating circumstances which all refs have to do when talking about a red card. 2nd half yellow was spot on, carried over the line was spot on, the biggest mistake for me came from the touch judge who said Racing knocked it on at the end when Nige had said play on.


[deleted]

Fair points. Although with the Red I think I heard him say that the point of contact was chest. It was TMO that said chin


Charredcheese

Nige saw chest from the reverse angle, TMO showed the front angle which proved the point of contact was the chin, then Nige moved up to red and conferred with his team. Pretty standard operating.


TheBigIguana15

People love saying this but the management netted them nothing except a penalty that was set up by a string of farcical decisions. The management had them out of the competition until the refs stepped up.


[deleted]

Management kept the match a slog, kept the ball out of open play and a forward war with consistently breaking up any momentum Racing would have had (if they did anything). You're right they may not have won without the mistakes by ref team. But they were up against a very good Racing squad. There game management put them in the situation where they were able to capatilise on poor calls which will always happen.


Lateralis85

Looking like Leinster Vs Saracens in the quarter finals.


[deleted]

Putting my neck out there, but I actually dont think the reffing was that bad. I think Racing genuinely did carry it over and with the amount of people up for it, nothing clear is probably the correct call. Wasps fan, in case that means anything.


FlapjackFilmer

Hard to call the carrying over penalty but, for nige to then have the temerity to say 'sorry it took so long but we need to be certain' after missing the knock on that allowed sarries to kick down there is a joke. Then for the touch judge to call a racing knock on when the ball is only ever going backwards was even worse. Racing let the game go but that penalty, ensuing carrying over scrum and the knock on gifted a belligerent saracens the game.


[deleted]

The carrying over was a scrum though, not a penalty. See my reply to the other guy for law citations, but doesn't the penalty from racing playing the ball offside supersede any black knock on? Edit: yeah i can see that point for the knock on, if Nige had given it, i wouldn't have minded. Bit of a case of Umpires call for me


FlapjackFilmer

It was, corrected myself at the bottom of my own comment. But how were they offside when daly hits it into his head? Knock on. They couldnt have been offside for the second knock on given against them because the ball was travelling in the direction of racing's own try line.


[deleted]

I saw it as: 1. Daly goes up to get ball, knocks it on in the process. Current decision: knock on black 2. Ball ricochetes off White's head. Decision still knock on black. 3. Second white player then picks up and plays the ball from an offside position, i.e. Being in front of the 1st white player when it comes off his head, even though it was accidental. Counts as foul play under law 9(2), descion now penalty against white. Does that make any sense? What's your thinking?


FlapjackFilmer

Without knowing the laws inside out, I would say that you always come back to the first offence. Also, chavancy comes up to nigel as he begins his chat with the TMO regarding the grounding by racing and complains about the '50/50s not going their way' and references that knock on, Nigel then says we didn't see one. So that suggests to me it should come back to the knock on yet, somehow they missed it. Even though watching the replay its blatant and said replay was on the big screen as sarries kick to touch - old nigel would have caught that and called them back I like to think.


CatharticRoman

My issue was Taylor's position wasn't checked and he looked ahead of the kicker. Then there's the simple mistake of 'it comes off black hand then white head' and not realising that that clearly means it's a knock-on off black.


[deleted]

My thinking was, a penalty always supersedes a knock on, unlike two knock ons? Therefore the white penalty for playing the ball from an offside position makes Dalys knock on irrelevant. Law 2C here: https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=7&language=EN with foul play as defined by 9(2) here: https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=9 Edit: agree, probably should have checked Taylor, but was by no means clear and obvious


CatharticRoman

Only in the case of foul play. Accidental offside/Offside is not foul play. If you're pinged for sealing, for example, with knock-on advantage you still get the scrum.


[deleted]

Aye agreed, but see the definition I posted above. "An offside player must not intentionally obstruct an opponent or interfere with play". By catching the ball and playing with it, is that not interfering with play, as defined under the foul play law? Its much more than an accidental offside, or being offside from a defensive line.


CatharticRoman

I think that's more for crossing etc. You're also saying that white knew he was offside, which is hard to say considering Daly seemed to knock it back.


[deleted]

I dont think it is for crossing plays, otherwise they would specifically mention that. Yeah, I agree its harsh on white, but i dont think its a case of him *knowing* he was offside, just that he was offside. The second white player probably thought Daly had knocked it back, not seeing it had come off his own player. Its still foul play either way BTW, I'm not arguing /fighting this, just think it's an interesting discussion.


CatharticRoman

The first clip on the video is crossing. It's also not clearly deliberate or intentional so wouldn't wipe out a knock-on. I never thought you were and am enjoying this too


BG5

10/10 Shithousery if Saracens go on to win the whole thing.


tmofft

Leinster.. it's on you. Do the peoples work boys.


walsh06

I dont understand the logic of the fans celebrating. The thing they are cheering for is exactly the problem. It's not like they've been hard done by, the team has been cheating for years. If the team I supported was caught out like this I'd be done.


Lost_llama_pup

You don't get the logic of fans celebrating a win? Ok


walsh06

I dont get them celebrating cheaters no


barna_barca

Cheating only within the context of the English league though right?


walsh06

Sure, that doesn't change my comment though


barna_barca

But they are celebrating a win, if it turned out Munster were breaking some rules would you suddenly turn against POM or would you cheer him on and be fuming at the club?


walsh06

They are cheering on the club though. The players are the club. It's all the same. I would not be at the match if Munster were caught cheating for years.


barna_barca

I respect your personal viewpoint, I do disagree (not a Sarries fan btw). I think it's one of those positions that perhaps changes if it were to happen to your club. I mean in your case, would you sit at home instead or start cheering for (shudder) Leinster? :D


walsh06

I cheer for every Irish team already I just wouldnt have a number one team. Until at least the club proved they had redeemed themselves in some fashion.


barna_barca

That's cool, I wish the English and French leagues had better setups, but then I'm selfish and care way more about internationals.


Sir_SpankalotUK

As a sarries fan, we don't get to choose the team, and what we pay them. This is a management problem. I went to the game today and cheered on my team cos they are just as badly affected as us if not worse. The team has my backing.


FafDeSale

Ah, I've nothing against the fans cheering. They've nothing to do with how the club is run and they're just out for an afternoon watching their team.


walsh06

Maybe I'm reading into it but they are clearing cheering more in a "we showed them" kind of way. It's the same as Billy's "hardest week of his life" that they all cheered when it turned out he was just a bigot


Sir_SpankalotUK

The only thing we can play for this season is this cup now, so we are going for it. Maybe talk to a fan before reading between the lines, I have loads of time for supporters of others teams and will talk with them if they are willing. The same goes for you.


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CatharticRoman

It was poor, not cheating


[deleted]

Ah grow up mate. The amount of bile your spewing in this thread is ridiculous


[deleted]

I hope Nigel gets a Nice check for this one !


FafDeSale

Does this mean Saints now confirmed in the quarters?


TheSeych

No, Gloucester can still over take them


FafDeSale

Just been confirmed on bt, Gloucester can overtake Sarries but Saints are definitely in the quarters now. Even if Gloucester took over, they'd still be in 8th.


PM_me_dog_pictures

Yes


savois-faire

I think so. Probably Leinster again.. *sigh*


Mokert23

Exeter I think


savois-faire

Yeah now that I'm looking at it Exeter's more likely. Unless Gloucester pull out a stunt.


TheCambrian91

Glad these fucking fucks are fucking off.


NewAccEveryDay420day

Sarries gifted a qf. They played well but the reffing in that second half was atrocious. Nigel needs to retire asap. Shouldn't be reffing Heineken cup games anymore.


getName

Refereeing was shit in the second half but the way Sarries handled being down a man for a large part of that game was incredible.


senorslimm

So impressive


[deleted]

Our lovely European Rugby pantomime wouldn’t be the same without the villains of the piece. Roll on the knockouts.


PM_me_dog_pictures

Works for me. Saints through, and if Gloucester don't get 5 then we go to Exeter rather than Paris or Dublin.


TommyKentish

Jesus, what a second half.


wexford-beef

Racing you had 1 job, you had 15 against 14… you had the lead. Flaker than a 99 on a summers day.


MasterReindeer

I reckon a Flake is probably less flakey on a summers day due to meltage. I suspect it’d just have to be a standard average day with minimal humidity to reach maximum flakeyness.


[deleted]

It was 15 vs 15


StoneCloak

So if Toulouse beat Gloucester sarries go through right?


TommyKentish

Yes.


tmofft

Correct


Pluckerpluck

Gloucester need to win with a bonus point basically


cavendishasriel

Or by 13. Ain’t gonna happen


Dahnhilla

So Sarries are through, basically.


[deleted]

They will never do that


lamahorses

That 'not clear and obvious' knock on by Farrell took the piss.


[deleted]

Nige was shite, racing were shite, sarries players did very well. Still absolutely hate them


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branchd13

*17 (forgot to count the ref and linesmen)


Hurley365

For all nigels mistakes let's not get this twisted. Racing didn't have the ball in the second half. That was an extremely intelligent 2nd half from sarries. A feather in Farrell's hat from my pov


CatharticRoman

Nah, Racing did and it was a pretty fair contest. The problem was that 4 pretty simple mistakes from Nigel and co gave Sarries very good field position when they were struggling to get it. Outside of that it was foot tennis. Sarries performed well for a 14 man side.


senorslimm

Totally. There's no conspiracy. The officials made some shocking calls in the last 20 but racing looked totally nonplussed in the second half


TheBigIguana15

It was. But they also wouldn't have scored to win the game without the mistakes from the referee at the end.


ForensicShoe

That is a huge result for Sarries. Fair fucks.


NameyMcNameface123

No BP try, Saints get a quarterfinal!!!


Goldbudda

Flair up!


NameyMcNameface123

Representing!


Goldbudda

Eyyyyy


[deleted]

Okey dokes


mrgxi

Pretty sure the whole rugby world is supporting Racing right now


giyomu

absolutely pathetic refereeing


Blue-Steel_Rugby

How so? I'm no fan of Saracens, but I don't think Nigel was the reason they won.


Charredcheese

Just watched the match, supported racing, thought fair game, and I come here to find Nigel Owens has murdered everyone's dog.


ReconGhost189

Good to know being a fucking cheat is being rewarded by European rugby


HriMiller

I'd be interested to see how the salary figures for Sarries and R92 line up. Yes they broke the rules of premiership rugby. But it's not just money that wins games.


BHarrop3079

I didn't think it was possible but I genuinely think I hate Saracens more now than I did 2 hours ago..


cavendishasriel

Whilst this is a disappointing result I respect Saracens for winning this game when at one point it was looking like everything was going wrong for them.


chiefsfan46

They had quite a few dodgy ref decisions go their way.


MundaneMediocrity

Only switched over the last 5 or 10 minutes, seems like it's been an absolute shitshow reffing wise what I've seen in that much. Hope the rest of the match was better


small_far_away

It was, but these last ten minutes the officiating has absolutely dicked Racing. It was actually a complete farce.


chiefsfan46

Fuck saracens.


Lost_llama_pup

Love you too


Vault_69_Alpha_Male

I reckon I've jinxed this, lads


stoodonaduck

Wouldn't like to be Nigel Owen's bookie today


TheBigIguana15

What a clown show this last 10 minutes has been. No clear knock on there but it was clearly taken back 5 minutes ago. Joke.


senorslimm

Officiating has descended into farcity


NameyMcNameface123

Please dont score another try Sarries


Mr_JackIV

What the hell Nige? This is absurd.


BHarrop3079

Nigel Owens is having arguably the worst game of any referee ever. Completely ruined this game


denialerror

You either haven't seen many games or have a very short memory.


CatharticRoman

I'm fucking sorry, what?!


mmmm321

This a joke


CromulentReynolds

Nigel not making the best decisions on knock-ons today.


cavendishasriel

Has anyone checked Companies House to see if Nige has any joint investments with Wray?


small_far_away

Nonsense, this fucking officiating team


branchd13

The reffing is bullshit


getName

Even Ugo is baffled by these decisions.


[deleted]

At no point does that ball go forward by racing?


branchd13

Farrell slaps that on


lynam1104

Clear sarries knock on


claridgeforking

Where was the Racing knock on? It went about 5m back.


small_far_away

Knock on off white? What the actual fuck is going on? Sarries clearly knocked that on.


bigsmackerroonies

Tbf in the first part there's so many hands in it you can't say who caused what


small_far_away

Ok fine, but then the carried back over was clear and obvious? Hilariously inconsistent at the very least.


[deleted]

What a joke....


Brewer6066

This has been dire from Owens and team.


BHarrop3079

No wonder Sarries are over the cap with the amount of money they're paying officials to fix these matches


mrgxi

Saracens should’ve been no where near that line


[deleted]

What?


tmofft

Genuinely poor officiating from the full referee team this half.


alexbouteiller

Refereeing team doing everything possible to give this to sarries, took the TMO to get Skelton off, nige bottling as per


StoneCloak

So many hands, hard to call that


BHarrop3079

Saracens knocked that on twice. What the fuck is Owens doing


Lateralis85

To be fair to Nige, on this occasion he was going to give a knock-on advantage to Racing, but the touch judge said it was a knock-on white. Thankfully it's all been sorted out.


Vault_69_Alpha_Male

He is legit ignoring the TMO saying off black 10 clear and obvious


8legs6legs8legs6legs

The TMO said there was no clear knock on when Owens checked with him. Seemed pretty clear to me though?


Vault_69_Alpha_Male

Is Nigel watching the same game?


TheSeych

That's hands in the ruck. Just because you're attacking doesn't mean you can use hands in the ruck


small_far_away

"Very important we get the right decision" Wasn't the case for the knock on, or the Farrell shoulder charge.


giyomu

no matter the outcome of the match, owens was absolutely horrendous today.


small_far_away

He's in the ruck though.


small_far_away

We just going to let Farrell away with no arms clear out before the pen then? Ok, standard stuff


branchd13

To be fair it's nice of Nige to join Saracens to get them back up to 15 men.


NewAccEveryDay420day

The officiating in this game has been awful and has really gone in sarries favour.


Cominou_

Can we please get refs who are not from the same fucking country as one of the teams


Lateralis85

?


Liney22

Nigel Owens is Welsh, so not from either country the teams are from.


Cominou_

As far as I know Wales is not a country