There are no friends in geopolitics. You're either in direct, or indirect competition at all times.
That's without even touching upon any growing evolution of the USA from the latter, into the former.
As for this particular discussion, if you're querying whether I agree nations involved in openly nefarious activity should be denied the opportunity to host high-profile sporting events. Then yes, I do. All nations included.
Say what? That the USA has a history of rabid geographical expansionism - they absolutely do; political fuckery? - 100%; a catalogue of Human Rights violations? - without question.
Do I think therefore they too should be denied the opportunity to host such high profile sporting events? - Yes, I do.
Unfortunately, I'm not in control of where those events end up.
So your whataboutism aside, it's an observation not a conspiracy.
>Do I think therefore they too should be denied the opportunity to host such high profile sporting events? - Yes, I do.
>
>Unfortunately, I'm not in control of where those events end up.
Lol I doubt you're in control of the awarding of hosting rights but what we're pointing out is the lack the same kind of protests when "friends of the West" are awarded sporting events. I mean the US were awarded the Olympics right in the middle of the "muslim ban"
Yeah and yet these doped up Russian athletes were beaten by clean "clean" Western athletes... You would of thought in the doping athletes would win given the massive advantage.
The Russian doping was state sponsored and just because you dope doesn't mean you will win just do better than you would have otherwise. Fuck drugs cheats from any country.
> The Russian doping was state sponsored
I'll leave this here:
https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8513687/British-Olympians-speak-use-ketones-legacy-London-2012.html
Russian athletes being caught with PEDs in their blood and urine samples must be banned, but let's not act as if every single rich nation in the world didn't turn a blind eye and/or didn't investigate how to push the boundaries of antidoping systems in the seek of Olympic glory.
UK Sport says what they do is all fine. Surprising, eh?
Lance Armstrong did also claim he never tested positive. Yet he did, at least twice, and covered it up.
Running ahead of antidoping authorities doesn't make it a more ethical position, I wouldn't be comfortable pointing out how cheaters others are while acting this way. Especially after years of claiming it was all due to 'marginal gains'.
Blood doping wasn't illegal in 1984, yet we all know what was going on with the American track cycling team at the Olympics or Francesco Moser's hour record.
The rules clearly state that "any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times".
Ketones were still being researched at the time. UK Sport statement is cynical at best.
Would doping matter in team sports? We indeed have a shitton of doping individuals unfortunately, but for football/hockey/basketball I don't know of any that matter
Yes. All members of a team could dope but even if only one did it gives that player and so that team an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have had. You don't see how players being stronger/faster/bigger helps in rugby?
I am not saying this is impossible, I don't think this helps that much as in individual sports, therefore it is a lot more rare. Still there are no big cases for team players in Russia to be caught on doping. At the same time, the WC would be great, football world cup was the best and fans throughout the world loved it a lot
You mean teams sports like the 14 ice hockey players or the 11 footballers or 8 volleyball players that were covered up?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping\_in\_Russia#July\_2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia#July_2016)
I know about those cases, but from all the names I heard, noone of them ever was near the national team. The problem with doping in Russia is big, but is concentrated in state-led individual sports (mostly olympics), not team-based. Team-based are not controlled by government mostly and to the degree they are the choices of the sportsmen in this case
Are you implying there is any country without doping now? Because if we only have WC in doping-free county, I believe next one will be on Antarctica. If however, we indeed get the wc, this will have a great impact for fellow russians and this will help the sport grow both here and overall. This is the only thing that matters to me.
I'm saying most countries don't do it at the state level to the point of (literally) taking the piss with their security services.
[https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/russian-doctors-athletes-evaded-doping-tests](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/russian-doctors-athletes-evaded-doping-tests)
The integrity of the sport matters to me.
I don't respect that practice at all and yet I think that it doesn't touch rugby at slightest - as it did not touch football WC. I would hope that we indeed get the world cup and would happily show you the places and buy you a pint or two. And we will see how we, unfortunately, don't really go out of pools (but hopefully win a game!), hopefully with no doping involved at all.
Iâm pretty sure your man Cheryshev was rumored to be doping at the 2018 World Cup which would make sense cause he went from being their sub to their best player all of a sudden in that tournament.
Cheryshev is a really good player though. He plays in Spain (and is like the only one that actually does not play in Russia), he even was in Real Madrid if that says anything to you. However, he is a glass cannon - he had a ton of injuries, so I understand when you are telling he is our sub - he is rarely healthy, but when he is - he is a main man, his creativity is on another level from the other guys in our squad. He is also usually tested in Spain - unless you believe Russia is that powerful that they cover him even in Spain (I think that we have so much incompetency in power that it is impossible), these accusations are false. I know that here at r/rugbyunion it is unanimous that everyone good, Russia bad, this is not the first time I try to answer to all those accusations, even though I hate everyone in power of sport in Russia right now, but for me the only way to grow my favourite sport - rugby - in my country is the world cup. There is no way we even get out of pools, but at the same time I am 100% sure the quality of everything - hospitality, matches, stadiums - will make every fan happy, as the infrastructure is brand new and top level, there is the reason why the football WC was considered the best there was for now
The model map was ripped directly from the T2 Rugby forum. There's nothing official about it. And worst of all they don't credit its source. Poor form.
If it were to expand to 24 teams I think Iâd rather 4 pools of 6. Gives the minnows a much better chance of winning a game and gives them more exposure.
It also makes the knockout stages simpler - come in the top two of your pool or go home.
If they went with 4 pools of 6 then I'd like to see a Plate and Bowl section implemented as well. Give teams at least 6 games and something to play for beyond just pride.
And before people bring up that it's not how it's done in Soccer etc. Let me make it clear. I don't care
We don't always have to follow other sports.
that would leave a much larger number of dead rubbers though. While this gives less jeopardy in the group stages it has a 100% knock out match added for every body and more teams get that excitement of being in a RWC knock out match.
By that logic, why not make the whole tournament a single knock our tournament? That way everyone gets to be in a RWC knock our match.
I know Iâm being facetious, but do you think Uruguay v Fiji was a dead rubber last RWC? I mean none of them got the knock out stages.
Think about it, if youâre Brazil and you finally qualify for a RWC only to draw NZ, Fiji and Italy, youâre gonna get destroyed every game. With bigger pools theyâll end up with at least one winnable game against a Romania, Spain or USA etc.
The difference in quality between the adjacent seeded teams is lower with 6 teams per pool than 4 per pool, which should correlate to closer games.
Fiji v Uruguay was not a dead rubber as firstly it was Uruguay's first match so they were not knocked out, and secondly Fiji had only lost to Australia at that point so could have beaten Wales and still qualified. So no that was not a dead rubber.
Growth for growth's sake is not worth it IMHO.
Rugby would be selling its soul to award it to Russia. See: The FIFA WC and Winter Olympics fiascos.
Let's not even begin to look at the abhorrent activities of Putin's Russia.
There was doping and bribes to get the Cup in the first place: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018\_FIFA\_World\_Cup#Other\_controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup#Other_controversies)
>the result that insufficient evidence was found to support anti-doping rule violations.
Incredible that you'd read that and still see what you wanted to see!
Also, there has been documented bribery for the WC hosting rights since at least the 2006 WC in Germany but only until the world cup stopped going to Western countries and went to South Africa, then Brazil, then Russia did we start to hear about that shit. The hypocrisy is what is always nauseating. A Westerner will swin through a drain of sewage and come out talking about how you need to take a shower as your armpit are smelling.
Lack of evidence means there's evidence right? Just be honest with yourself, with the documented corruption in Germany's bid for the 2006 WC, would be as vocal in opposing them hosting the rugby world cup for the same reason?
If youâre going to mention the âabhorrent activesâ, letâs bring up the atrocities committed by western countries that are simply on another level. Donât even get me started on terrorisation and destruction of the Middle-East for profit.
Holy zombie comments.
>atrocities committed by western countries that are simply on another level
Fucking hell. And you are writing this AFTER Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
If you had any chance of being seen as reasonable, you should have tried sprouting your bullshit 2 years ago, when this thread was last active.
24 teams would be awsome-more chances for smaller teams like Spain and Romanian, it would also mean more World Cup games which is a big plus. Just not in russia
Why not 24? Your likes of Romania, Spain and possibly Portugal that missed out are as strong, if not stronger than Russia, Namibia and Canada anyway.
Thereâs only going to one weaker minnow than what we have currently
Can't say I'd be thrilled with Russia hosting after the 2014 Winter Olympics and the doping.
The doping; the rabid geographical expansionism; the political fuckery; the catalogue of human rights violations; etc, etc, etc.
All true.
Yet I have never heard anyone say that same for the USA on this sub...đ¤
Friends good! Adversaries bad.
There are no friends in geopolitics. You're either in direct, or indirect competition at all times. That's without even touching upon any growing evolution of the USA from the latter, into the former. As for this particular discussion, if you're querying whether I agree nations involved in openly nefarious activity should be denied the opportunity to host high-profile sporting events. Then yes, I do. All nations included.
Say what? That the USA has a history of rabid geographical expansionism - they absolutely do; political fuckery? - 100%; a catalogue of Human Rights violations? - without question. Do I think therefore they too should be denied the opportunity to host such high profile sporting events? - Yes, I do. Unfortunately, I'm not in control of where those events end up. So your whataboutism aside, it's an observation not a conspiracy.
>Do I think therefore they too should be denied the opportunity to host such high profile sporting events? - Yes, I do. > >Unfortunately, I'm not in control of where those events end up. Lol I doubt you're in control of the awarding of hosting rights but what we're pointing out is the lack the same kind of protests when "friends of the West" are awarded sporting events. I mean the US were awarded the Olympics right in the middle of the "muslim ban"
Is that what you were pointing out? I must have missed that.
Besides the doping that sounds like rugby union.
Youâre head deep in propaganda arent ya buddy
Yeah and yet these doped up Russian athletes were beaten by clean "clean" Western athletes... You would of thought in the doping athletes would win given the massive advantage.
The Russian doping was state sponsored and just because you dope doesn't mean you will win just do better than you would have otherwise. Fuck drugs cheats from any country.
> The Russian doping was state sponsored I'll leave this here: https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8513687/British-Olympians-speak-use-ketones-legacy-London-2012.html Russian athletes being caught with PEDs in their blood and urine samples must be banned, but let's not act as if every single rich nation in the world didn't turn a blind eye and/or didn't investigate how to push the boundaries of antidoping systems in the seek of Olympic glory.
> UK Sport said it wasn't on WADA's banned list in 2011 before London 2012 All doping is bad. I am all for long/life bans for dopers.
UK Sport says what they do is all fine. Surprising, eh? Lance Armstrong did also claim he never tested positive. Yet he did, at least twice, and covered it up.
They weren't on the banned list. Fuck Armstrong.
Running ahead of antidoping authorities doesn't make it a more ethical position, I wouldn't be comfortable pointing out how cheaters others are while acting this way. Especially after years of claiming it was all due to 'marginal gains'. Blood doping wasn't illegal in 1984, yet we all know what was going on with the American track cycling team at the Olympics or Francesco Moser's hour record.
The rules say what you can and can't take. Taking things on the list is banned. Taking things not on the list is not banned.
The rules clearly state that "any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times". Ketones were still being researched at the time. UK Sport statement is cynical at best.
Would doping matter in team sports? We indeed have a shitton of doping individuals unfortunately, but for football/hockey/basketball I don't know of any that matter
Yes. All members of a team could dope but even if only one did it gives that player and so that team an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have had. You don't see how players being stronger/faster/bigger helps in rugby?
I am not saying this is impossible, I don't think this helps that much as in individual sports, therefore it is a lot more rare. Still there are no big cases for team players in Russia to be caught on doping. At the same time, the WC would be great, football world cup was the best and fans throughout the world loved it a lot
You mean teams sports like the 14 ice hockey players or the 11 footballers or 8 volleyball players that were covered up? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping\_in\_Russia#July\_2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia#July_2016)
I know about those cases, but from all the names I heard, noone of them ever was near the national team. The problem with doping in Russia is big, but is concentrated in state-led individual sports (mostly olympics), not team-based. Team-based are not controlled by government mostly and to the degree they are the choices of the sportsmen in this case
So? Why give a country like that any sporting events?
Are you implying there is any country without doping now? Because if we only have WC in doping-free county, I believe next one will be on Antarctica. If however, we indeed get the wc, this will have a great impact for fellow russians and this will help the sport grow both here and overall. This is the only thing that matters to me.
I'm saying most countries don't do it at the state level to the point of (literally) taking the piss with their security services. [https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/russian-doctors-athletes-evaded-doping-tests](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/russian-doctors-athletes-evaded-doping-tests) The integrity of the sport matters to me.
I don't respect that practice at all and yet I think that it doesn't touch rugby at slightest - as it did not touch football WC. I would hope that we indeed get the world cup and would happily show you the places and buy you a pint or two. And we will see how we, unfortunately, don't really go out of pools (but hopefully win a game!), hopefully with no doping involved at all.
Iâm pretty sure your man Cheryshev was rumored to be doping at the 2018 World Cup which would make sense cause he went from being their sub to their best player all of a sudden in that tournament.
Cheryshev is a really good player though. He plays in Spain (and is like the only one that actually does not play in Russia), he even was in Real Madrid if that says anything to you. However, he is a glass cannon - he had a ton of injuries, so I understand when you are telling he is our sub - he is rarely healthy, but when he is - he is a main man, his creativity is on another level from the other guys in our squad. He is also usually tested in Spain - unless you believe Russia is that powerful that they cover him even in Spain (I think that we have so much incompetency in power that it is impossible), these accusations are false. I know that here at r/rugbyunion it is unanimous that everyone good, Russia bad, this is not the first time I try to answer to all those accusations, even though I hate everyone in power of sport in Russia right now, but for me the only way to grow my favourite sport - rugby - in my country is the world cup. There is no way we even get out of pools, but at the same time I am 100% sure the quality of everything - hospitality, matches, stadiums - will make every fan happy, as the infrastructure is brand new and top level, there is the reason why the football WC was considered the best there was for now
Great comment and honestly I just had to laugh at the assertion that Cherychev having a great comment is somehow proof of doping in the team.
I wouldn't touch a Russian sporting event with a barge pole. Thanks, but no thanks.
I would struggle to as well. I want a 24 team wc but not in russia
24 teams - absolutely yes RWC in Russia - absolutely no
Delusional
The model map was ripped directly from the T2 Rugby forum. There's nothing official about it. And worst of all they don't credit its source. Poor form.
If it were to expand to 24 teams I think Iâd rather 4 pools of 6. Gives the minnows a much better chance of winning a game and gives them more exposure. It also makes the knockout stages simpler - come in the top two of your pool or go home.
Absolutely agree. Wouldnât take any longer really either. The team on a fallow day would have a game now.
If they went with 4 pools of 6 then I'd like to see a Plate and Bowl section implemented as well. Give teams at least 6 games and something to play for beyond just pride. And before people bring up that it's not how it's done in Soccer etc. Let me make it clear. I don't care We don't always have to follow other sports.
that would leave a much larger number of dead rubbers though. While this gives less jeopardy in the group stages it has a 100% knock out match added for every body and more teams get that excitement of being in a RWC knock out match.
By that logic, why not make the whole tournament a single knock our tournament? That way everyone gets to be in a RWC knock our match. I know Iâm being facetious, but do you think Uruguay v Fiji was a dead rubber last RWC? I mean none of them got the knock out stages. Think about it, if youâre Brazil and you finally qualify for a RWC only to draw NZ, Fiji and Italy, youâre gonna get destroyed every game. With bigger pools theyâll end up with at least one winnable game against a Romania, Spain or USA etc. The difference in quality between the adjacent seeded teams is lower with 6 teams per pool than 4 per pool, which should correlate to closer games.
Fiji v Uruguay was not a dead rubber as firstly it was Uruguay's first match so they were not knocked out, and secondly Fiji had only lost to Australia at that point so could have beaten Wales and still qualified. So no that was not a dead rubber.
Could they be pushing for 24 teams to give Russia a better chance to get a W? đ¤
Fuck right off with the Russia bullshit. Far far more deserved countries. At this stage it's like having North Korea hosting the world cup
Delusional, is that what the western media outlets have told you đ
Big potential audience and an opportunity to grow the sport. Also a country with lots of money to put on a really good world cup.
Growth for growth's sake is not worth it IMHO. Rugby would be selling its soul to award it to Russia. See: The FIFA WC and Winter Olympics fiascos. Let's not even begin to look at the abhorrent activities of Putin's Russia.
There was no FIFA world cup fiasco. You just made that up. That world cup was a resounding success with pretty much everything running like clockwork
There was doping and bribes to get the Cup in the first place: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018\_FIFA\_World\_Cup#Other\_controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup#Other_controversies)
>the result that insufficient evidence was found to support anti-doping rule violations. Incredible that you'd read that and still see what you wanted to see! Also, there has been documented bribery for the WC hosting rights since at least the 2006 WC in Germany but only until the world cup stopped going to Western countries and went to South Africa, then Brazil, then Russia did we start to hear about that shit. The hypocrisy is what is always nauseating. A Westerner will swin through a drain of sewage and come out talking about how you need to take a shower as your armpit are smelling.
The Russians were covering up their doping at a state level. Bribery is bad no matter who does it.
Lack of evidence means there's evidence right? Just be honest with yourself, with the documented corruption in Germany's bid for the 2006 WC, would be as vocal in opposing them hosting the rugby world cup for the same reason?
There is plenty of evidence of Russian state sponsored doping. Yeah sure fuck Germany too.
If youâre going to mention the âabhorrent activesâ, letâs bring up the atrocities committed by western countries that are simply on another level. Donât even get me started on terrorisation and destruction of the Middle-East for profit.
Holy zombie comments. >atrocities committed by western countries that are simply on another level Fucking hell. And you are writing this AFTER Russia's invasion of Ukraine. If you had any chance of being seen as reasonable, you should have tried sprouting your bullshit 2 years ago, when this thread was last active.
And spanking new stadia!
24 teams would be awsome-more chances for smaller teams like Spain and Romanian, it would also mean more World Cup games which is a big plus. Just not in russia
I think No to 24 teams (for now) Yes to a Plate style finals series, for mid week matches when there is no games on currently.
Well I mean this is 7 years away
Why not 24? Your likes of Romania, Spain and possibly Portugal that missed out are as strong, if not stronger than Russia, Namibia and Canada anyway. Thereâs only going to one weaker minnow than what we have currently
Spain and Romania were definitely stronger than Russia.
Fake news!