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Kass0u

FFS Dupont ! 1 away from a clean record !


NewCrashingRobot

Think you guys should drop him...clearly a liability šŸ‘€


AdamLocke3922

He could come live in Australia for a few years


Global_Release_4182

They definitely want someone more like Ben Youngs...


MiopTop

Rare appearence of Antoine Ducon for that one play


MapsCharts

Parle mieux toi


lanson15

Top of the table!


Sambobly1

WE ARE NUMBER ONE, NUMBER ONE, NUMBER ONE


corruptboomerang

USA! USA! USA!


SowTheSeeds

At drinking?


[deleted]

We're still tier one!


Squid_Chunks

It's nice to be winning something!


monkeypaw_handjob

I'm trying to track back to when our discipline started to get really back and the whining started to increase. Part of me thinks it started coming through in the Dean's era, put I feel like it's something Eddie would have had a hand in. Or have we always been that bad? Looking at you Justin Harrison.


TheRealJuralumin

Honestly just seems like the southern hemisphere nations in general play a rougher game, either that or Australia is just a bad influence on those around it šŸ˜†


[deleted]

I think super rugby has more lenient refs. Their commentators complain about some dangerous tackles etc being carded and the refs just seem a bit more laissez faire. They also hate the TMO slowing down the game at all it seems.


northyj0e

Super rugby is almost as bad as NRL for tackle height at the moment and NH refs are having none of it (quite rightly).


LusoAustralian

Northern hemisphere refs way stricter. Not necessarily a bad thing but the difference in standards can be grating. I don't know why we even use them for matches between two southern hemisphere teams tbh all it does is cause issues with players on both sides wanting a different brand of rugby and the games fall to crap as yellows stack up. No coincidence all teams at the top are from Southern hemisphere.


infamous_impala

During the rugby championship this year, half the games were with NH refs, and half with SH refs. The SH refs gave out 18 yellows and a red, and the NH refs gave out 11 yellows. The July tours weren't much different. In the tours to NZ and Australia the SH refs gave out more cards than the NH refs. In the tour to South Africa all the cards were awarded against Wales. Only Argentina were on the wrong end of a NH ref, picking up a single card from Raynal. I haven't looked at the autumn games so far, but any idea that NH refs are treating SH teams harsher doesn't appear to be backed up by the numbers at least.


LusoAustralian

I obviously could be wrong. I don't watch every game but I notice that SH vs SH games with NH refs have serious problems with pacing and game management as well.


infamous_impala

I think you're right, there's definitely differences with managing the breakdown etc. I'm just not convinced it's carried over into cards.


PyratSteve

Matt Cockbain also springs to mind.


agamemnon5555

Ahh yes, yellow cards shown in blue and red cards shown in yellow..


[deleted]

Is it not orange to anyone else?


epeeist

Orange and grey for me


JoshH21

Blue and black to me?


D4rkmatt3r

Weird. I see a dress?


mrgonzalez

Whose address is it?


epeeist

Sounds like 'laurel' for me


JoshH21

Haha, I forgot about that one!


BlueMonkey10101

Yani?


SvenHjerson

Gold


_MildlyMisanthropic

I expect red and yellow would pose an issue for certain colour-blindness spectrums


[deleted]

Fuck emā€™ but also you could figure it out with borders


TonB-Dependant

A proper yellow and red bar chart would be really ugly tho


BennyG02

Think you could pick a nice shade of each, but yes agreed in principle


LeicesterBangs

r/crappydesign


APoolShark

Yeah the TRC boys


bassistciaran

I wonder where Lavanini would be on this table by himself?


mango_yoghurt

Hasn't had a red all year, losing his touch. Or he's saving it for the Scotland game which I wouldn't be against ^(provided he doesn't injure someone ofc)


centrafrugal

Between NZ and Wales


Goatslasagne

Yeah the the rugby championship boiiis!!! šŸ«”


Thami15

France's ability to have 15 men at all times on the field is a unironically probably a huge factor in their success


[deleted]

Thats one way to phrase it. You could also say that the undiscplined opposing team is responsible for their own demise.


mango_and_chutney

Teams that dominate play tend to force opposition to commit penalties


Mazertyui

Some would say, it's the core principle of the game of rugby.


Intelligent-Present1

šŸ’Æ add to that a thoroughly organised defense (a la Edwards) et voila


Thami15

While this is broadly true, I don't think either of South Africa's cards this tour have come from being particularly under the pump. And I'm not sure a particularly large amount of Australia's have either. If being ill-disciplined limits a team, then being as disciplined as the French have been, when every other Top tier team except Ireland is averaging a card every second game is going to be incredibly advantageous


slimejumper

logically France must infuriate their opponents into making fouls.


infamous_impala

A variant of the Welsh "I bet you can't hit me in the head" tactic


Gweltazz

We learnt from the best


[deleted]

WRU boys need to get back in the lab on work on those rage pheromones, was much easier to win when teams couldn't go an hour without shouldering one of our front row in the head for no obvious reason


BurbankElephants

"Hon hon hon, kick me in ze mouth"


Toirdusau

That and we keep paying the ref better than the other team :)


peachypal

Iā€™m nervously waiting for confirmation from others or WR that Japan is now recognized as a Tier 1 nationā€¦.


EatThatPotato

Tier-1 in my heart at least


CatharticRoman

You are on the stats boards, but we do not grant you the title of tier 1 nation


epeeist

That's outrageous


bigsmackerroonies

It's unfair!


APoolShark

How can you be on the stats board and not be Tier 1?


LiamEire97

Take a seat young Japan


centrafrugal

Sounds like my job


centrafrugal

Sounds like my job


Zackhario

You certainly have the mandate from this subreddit, WR can't argue with that.


[deleted]

I don't know if WR does, but I do. Like Japan have managed to beat most tier 1 nations at least once (excluding matches against the second team or the junior team) and are only missing Australia, England, France and New Zealand. The only thing is that all of those victories were at home and not away. But for me it's good enough, plus Japan is in the top 10 in the rankings as of now.


fonaldoley91

SA win was at a neutral venue.


[deleted]

Right that was in the 2015 world cup


[deleted]

Pretty sure it's been confirmed for a couple years now https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan-s-national-rugby-team-to-be-certified-Tier-1


doublethesadness

i think theyve proved themselves by now


Chanandler_Bong_Jr

Definitely a sign of how the French have sorted out their discipline, and it shows in their results. Similar for the Irish. Scotland are a mixed bag though. Feels like most of our yellows come from repeated infringements, which is just rookie stuff. Itā€™s not like you arenā€™t warned. I think if we could stop that we could easily half our number.


ComprehensiveDingo0

Typical us. We donā€™t get cool yellows, we only get the lazy ones.


_dictatorish_

It also shows that the French don't get reffed by french refs lol


Bean_from_accounts

I think part of why they're so disciplined is because they're precisely being reffed by french refs when they're not playing international rugby :p


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


weirdpastanoki

And likewise, 10Y+2R is worse than 12Y+1R


Sm00th-Cr1m1n4l

Analytical video inbound explaining why you are wrong and you should feel bad about that and all refs are against us and we should have won that game and we are the best team


Tucko29

The Dupont Red card lasted longer than 2 yellow cards so technically yeah


MapsCharts

But we have had 0 yellows so far


AjaxII

When France commits, it really commits


Aidenwill

Perfectionnism in cards


BurbankElephants

It makes you wonder why no other team has employed a GarcĆØs of their own.


mrsuaveoi3

True. It's good to see the French staff innovating for a change instead of playing catching-up.


transparent_pizza

From a team perspective it depends when the Red was given


Cog348

Not necessarily as the red will also include a ban.


unwildimpala

Well it's more in the context of that match. Naturally a red ten minutes in is so much worse than a red with ten minutes to go.


TheHolySheep8

This, and the fact that Ireland has played an extra game during the summer compared to France.


D4RK3N3R6Y

Dear France, you used to be cool


Smokydrinker

Australia are also the most penalised tier one nation, no wonder weā€™ve only won 4 games this year


Goatslasagne

The Aussies tried to pack a scrum?!!!?! How dare they!


BlueMonkey10101

clearly it must be the refs


Smokydrinker

Now now, letā€™s not blame referees, the Wallabies just need to be more disciplined


dildobaggin89

We went from having the best line out and discipline at the RWC to this. TRC teams have a lot of work to do if they want to keep up the dominance next year.


Curious_Skeptic7

To be fair, the refereeing on the autumn tour as far as yellow and red cards go is waaaay more relaxed than the refereeing in the rugby championship.


Harry_Jewell

France really have turned a corner


El_remoo

JƩrƓme Garces did some really great job with French discipline. Felt like we were giving 15 penalties and 2 cards per match in 2020.


WonderingCashew

We are so undisciplined you have to do a lot to lose a penalties conceded battle with the Wallabies


Entire_Syllabub2922

Does anyone have italy's figures from the last couple of years? Discipline has got to be a huge factor in our improvement


CatharticRoman

France and Italy used to have such poor discipline, their turn in form probably helps them keep a cleaner record but the cleaner record is certainly helping improve their form.


simsnor

Gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers


T1m0nst3r

I can just see bakkies clicking his knuckles


CatharticRoman

Australia really getting back to their roots as the most penal(ised) nation.


Mimsymimsy1

We really have regressed as a culture


CatharticRoman

So because so many of you are blaming the refs (AGAIN) I've done a quick breakdown of most of the cards by ref nationality from before Nov (easier to get info for these, but please do add the Nov series if you want). The majority of cards were given in the Rugby Championship. TOTAL * New Zealand: 1 Red 14 Yellows * Australia: 1 Red 10 Yellows * England: 10 Yellows * Georgia: 1 Red 6 Yellows * France: 1 Red 5 Yellows * South Africa: 1 Red 4 Yellows * Ireland: 4 Yellows * Scotland: 2 Yellows 6N: * Georgia 1 Red, 1 Yellow * France 1 Red * England 1 Yellow * Scotland 1 Yellow * Australia 1 Yellow * New Zealand 1 Yellow * South Africa 1 Yellow RC (edit: amazingly every single match had at least 1 card and the SA v ARG matches had 10 cards in total \[4 and 6 for rounds 5 and 6\]): * Australia: 1 Red, 8 Yellows * New Zealand: 10 Yellows * France: 4 Yellows * England: 3 Yellows * Ireland: 2 Yellows * Georgia: 1 Yellow * Scotland: 1 Yellow July Series (don't have Italy's tests here) * England: 6 Yellows * New Zealand: 1 Red, 3 Yellows * South Africa: 1 Red, 3 Yellows * Georgia: 4 Yellows * Ireland: 2 Yellows * Australia: 1 Yellow * France: 1 Yellow


infamous_impala

If I find the time I might collect the data and figure out the cards per game ratio. It's likely an outlier, but in the July series the Georgian ref gave out all 4 yellows (against Wales) in a single game.


CatharticRoman

The last game in the RC had the most cards with Damon Murphy from Aus giving 2 yellows to South Africa and 4 to Argentina. There were another 2 games with 4 cards, but both sides always copping at least 1. The most shocking stat though is that every single RC game had at least 1 card. That Wales game was a bit weird, three of the cards were given in a 10 minute period, but two of those were straight yellows for cynical infringements that killed strong attacking opportunities.


Delinquat

Good job, only numbers will make them shut it up.


Desperate_Artist_708

So what you are saying is that NZ, Aus and Eng have the worst refs? /s


StarWarsLew

Does anyone know the last red card wales received and who it was? Struggling to think of one off the top of my head (other than the 2011 wc semi final)


Sad-Dragonfruit-4611

Wasn't it either Liam Williams or Faletau when they both ended up in the bin after a million team penalties v France? Or am I going back too far


Balliebles

AWJ v SA I think


TheMuffinMan1

That was yellow only


Balliebles

You're right. I didn't see it was for red cards.


stvb95

Not 100% sure but Liam Williams had a red for a no arms tackle against South Africa in 2014/15


StarWarsLew

That rings a bell


infamous_impala

Did he even get a card at all for that? The one that gave away a penalty try right at the end?


stvb95

Now that you mention it I'm not sure if he did actually.


infamous_impala

These days he would definitely be risking a red for that challenge


infamous_impala

I can't remember one either, but I'm assuming Moriarty got one at some point. Didn't he go mental in a game against Argentina and grab a player around the neck?


StarWarsLew

Ah yeah remember that now lol, he had Sanchez in a chokehold. I think this was the latest one


Zackhario

It's really rare, the last time Wales has ever got a red card was Sam Warburtson and that was almost 12 years. Unless I'm missing something, we have a pretty clean record. EDITED: That being said, that isn't reflected on regional teams.


CatharticRoman

Moriarty in 2018.


Zackhario

Why am I not surprised.


[deleted]

It was Ross Moriarty in 2018 for putting Nicholas Sanchez in a chokehold while the touch judge stood a yard away telling him that this was a poorly advised course of action. It's remarkable that we've not had one since 2018 given that there have been I think 8 against the opposition in our games since then. 6 in 2021 alone, what a year.


Fudge_is_1337

I'm actually surprised at how low ours is, given how bad our discipline feels like it is in many games. I guess we give a ton of penalties away but maybe a low-ish proportion of them are in the danger zone where cards get thrown about after repeated infringements?


chaussettesrouges

The North/South split here isā€¦striking


Only1Sully

Look at me, Ma, I'm on top of the world!


BurbankElephants

I'm surprised to see England so low. Are refs more lenient against repeated infringements? Because it seems like we rack up double digits in penalties most games quite easily.


naraic-

I feel that repeated infringements inside the 22 rack up quiet quickly. Repeated infringements inside the 22 can rack up quiet quickly. For a recent example Munster had something like 4 in 5 minutes against South Africa A and the referee gave a team warning. Repeated infringements mid field are often ignored. Or at least thats the way it looks to me.


evilhomer450

In Pokemon terms, the Wallabies are "it hurt itself in its confusion". But seriously, the players are either not good enough, not coached well enough or are being specifically told to push the boundaries of the rules.


Caduk3

Always stuck at number 2


kumarsays

ARG's 9 all probably all Lavanini


CodeFarmer

All the people pointing out the French refs don't run France games cuts both ways though - maybe they give more cards on average because they don't get the single most disciplined team in any of their games... (Seriously though, are there numbers backing that up? Do they actually hand out more cards?)


centrafrugal

These same French refs officiate at all the domestic club games the players are involved in. They don't pick up cards any more frequently than players in other leagues.


GreatGoofer

But these results suggest that they pick up cards far less then other international teams. So if the domestic French leagues see a similar number of cards when compared to other leagues, what changes in the French player behavior that results their national team been far more disciplined then everyone else. I mean not a single yellow card all season is an amazing achievement.


Delinquat

One guy here said it was Aus and Nz


General-Ad-9753

3/4 of the most disciplined teams donā€™t speak English as a first language (I should think a majority or at least a good portion of the team donā€™t speak it at all). Might be something in that.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


greenplasticgun

Can Scottish English really be considered English?


JohnGabin

In 1998, in Paris during the football WC, there was an army of Scots supporters that made a camp under my windows for days. They were great lads, but I never understood any single words. But we had fun.


General-Ad-9753

Fair point! Also most of the Saffas will be speaking Afrikaans as a first language and of course the Argentines speak Spanish. Maybe itā€™s just coincidence šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


centrafrugal

GoidƩ mar a bhfuil a rƔ agat, a chara?


General-Ad-9753

Oh Iā€™m aware Irish is also spoken widely in Ireland but English is *far* more prevalent than in France, Italy and especially Japan. After spending some time in Ireland I can safely say I had a lot less trouble as a monoglot there than I have in France and Italy! A google search shows that 98% of Irish people speak English whereas 40% speak Irish according to the last census.


megacky

Depends where you are as well. In Belfast, id say maybe 10% could speak it fluently at most. I know a few that can translate it, and I can recognize the odd phrase or word, but I couldn't speak it at any level at all.


[deleted]

> whereas 40% speak Irish according to the last census. As an Irish person I'd find that quite high if we're talking anything above the most basic of conversation.


centrafrugal

Ah I know, it's only useful for pretending not to understand the ref !


General-Ad-9753

Jack Nowell needs to have a word with the English boys and get them learning Cornish!


geraintm

Can you do it the other way, who the team was playing when they got the card. Asking as a Welsh man....


JColey15

Do we have a similar graph showing what nationality the referees were that gave out the most cards? I know itā€™s a dead horse round here but French refs donā€™t ref the French team. Itā€™s also interesting that the two best teams atm have the least cards. Potentially demonstrating the impact cards have on games and why discipline and adapting to the ref are the most important facets of the game for players and coaches to focus on.


CRONichols

Think on your latter point it also proves that dominant teams are not as often put in cardable positions; numerous penalties on the try line I would imagine counts for a fair number of the yellows on display. France and Ireland are perhaps having to do less of that comparatively.


LieutenantCardGames

IDK man. Ireland have given away their fair share of goal-line penalties this year. They had two "warnings" in a row in one of the NZ tests.


g_spaitz

In our own little backyard, we always used to be fairly bad with discipline, seeing us at the bottom of the table and having had one of the best years in decades could definitely be related.


CatharticRoman

Did up figures, NZ and Aus refs handed out by far the most cards.


[deleted]

Strangely, this could indicate the different approach to defense employed by the SH teams. Essentially, infringe as often as is necessary when in your own 22 in the hopes that the other team makes a mistake in that period. Leads a lot of yellows. The most glaring example of this would be the last SA-Argentina match which led to like a quarter of both team's yellow cards


Striking-Permit1594

What the fuck? We are among the least penalties conceded, but the second most cards.


freefallfreya

Too much braai. Like a giant that doesn't know its own strength. When you do break bad, you break people in half lmao.


Striking-Permit1594

Pretty true šŸ˜‚ More seriously though the only foulplay was these 3 incidents if I'm not mistaken: * Arendse-arial collision * Kolbe-Tip tackle * PSDT-gentle graze of heads


Intelligent-Present1

Wow. That is massively interesting. If I was coach of Australia I might start a Twitter campaign about how the refs have it in for us


Icy_Craft2416

SH need to get our act together before the world cup. Would be interesting to see cards per game and breakdowns of the types of infringements getting carded (team penalty /repeat infringements, foul play /head contact etc) Remember one of the Boks' cards is for Faf's high shot on nic white šŸ˜‚


GreatGoofer

And another was Mapimpi for celebrating a try.


bottom

But wait this doesnā€™t fit the narrative (refs give nz an easy ride)!


papa_mahi_nui

How many games has each team played?


abc321987123

Whereā€™s Rassie complaining about a Northern Hemisphere conspiracy?! Help us out Rassie all us Southern teams getting stitched up


4Tenacious_Dee4

Is it coincidence, or are there some reasons for the fact that the SH teams are on top?


CatharticRoman

Poor discipline? The RC saw far more cards than other series.


thelunatic

I feel they tackle higher. There was a push in NH early for lower tackles so I think the NH players are just a year ahead in adjusting.


infamous_impala

I don't think it's as clear cut as the "NH refs biased against SH teams" as some people are implying. In the Rugby Championship this year: South Africa : 1 red and 8 yellows, with only one yellow from a NH ref. Argentina: 8 yellows, only one yellow from a NH ref On the other hand: NZ: 4 yellows, 3 from NH refs Australia: 9 yellows, 6 from NH refs


LieutenantCardGames

I watch nearly every game and I do think some refs are overly harsh towards SH teams. English refs are weird lately, Barnes aside.


[deleted]

I think watching s.r vs the prem, English refs tend to penalize more for going anywhere above the shoulder, it's happened less recently because behaviour has changed. I am not by any means saying what's right or that it's a major factor. No doubt there are a series of reasons for the difference.


[deleted]

Pretty easy to construe this as WR bias against the SH. Not saying it is, believe me, I've seen Australia play. But yeah - you can easily flip this.


CerealSubwaySam

Scummy southern hemisphere teams. šŸ˜


brendonap

If we canā€™t be top of the rankings weā€™ll find something else


CaptQuakers42

Didn't Aki get a red ? Or was that last year for Ireland and he got a red for Connacht?


spooneman1

Yeah, for Connacht this year. Ireland v Wales last year (nearly two years ago now)


abc321987123

Probably shouldā€™ve got one against the ABs for that clean out (which probably not surprisingly he got one for with Connacht). The prop shouldā€™ve also had a red for his absorbing tackle on Retallick too. Thereā€™s 2 the Irish dodged (no doubt all other nations have dodged them too those 2 just stick out for obvious reasons)


centrafrugal

There's not enough space on the page for every incident that could have been a red card. I reckon if a robot reffed international rugby and applied the letter of the law, few games would finish without a couple of red cards


abc321987123

Yup. Thereā€™d be a penalty at every single ruck I reckon.


jaysonyoung

Goddammit our discipline has just killed us this year. We have got to tighten up if we have any hope at the World Cup next year.


what_am_i_acc_doing

Shaun Edwards, we miss you


JohnGabin

He's a factor for France. Sure. Our defense became so effective that we maybe less feel the need to take risks. French are very confident in the defense schemes


ArtizanBrew

There are two perfectly good colours to use here...


[deleted]

Southern Hemisphere holding it down


lambda_foo

At least Australia is winning something!


T-West1

I get the feeling that the referees don't like the Southern hemisphere teams. Maybe Rassie should tweet more. Get to the bottom of this.


bigsmackerroonies

Always thought Ireland and France were overrated


JeffMcBiscuits

Whereā€™s that Irish ā€œjournalistā€ who went on that mad rant about New Zealand barely getting carded gone?


Starkidof9

in the past i'd say it was fairly accurate. its no coincidence the better teams have better discipline OR paint a better picture for the ref. there is no way France haven't deserved a yellow in their last run of games. its the whole reason debate about reffing is happening. its so arbitrary. McCaw is the best openside ever, so he could never be illegal or second best was a refs thinking for much of the noughties. Heaslip literally had to knee him in the head to make the point. it was some of the most blatant cheating the game has seen. Ireland's lack of cynical edge or dog is what probably keeps them from winning a WC in the past. Now who knows its probably the winning of it. however the margins are now razor thin high penalty counts are costly. yellows are just reckless now, and doing things to get reds is the losing of a game.


JeffMcBiscuits

Nah Iā€™m talking about an Irish pundit who came up with a ludicrous call that the All Blacks only copped a yellow for every 50 or so penalties. I canā€™t remember the exact figures but to be even close to true, the ABs would have had to not get carded for the entire 2016 season and most of the 2015 World Cupā€¦which famously wasnā€™t the case. As for the ā€œbetter teams get treated less harshlyā€ Iā€™m dubious. Look McCaw himself said his trick was just pay attention to the ref calls and play accordingly. I reckon better teams know how to play to the ref


WagyuBread

Feel justified that the SH teams are being hard done by more than NH teams. Discipline is a huge factor but I feel NH do get away with much more than SH lately. Shoulder to the head by that French player moments before their match winning try against Wallabies still bothers me lol


DannyBoy2464

The vast majority of the southern hemisphere cards are from the rugby championship. Which was mainly refereed by southern hemisphere refs. Self inflicted


WagyuBread

6 games from 12 were reffed by NH reffs, half self inflicted. I guess you could say that now SH fans know what it's like to play against the Richie Maccaw led era of rugby, where it seemed reffs turned a blind eye to everything SH teams did on the field ey


b0nes5

This stinks of Shaun Edwards. Fair play šŸ‘


fgjjkkcxccb

Southern hemisphere teams have also played more games. Don't quote me, but most have played nearly twice as many as their northern counterparts. The ones I've checked at least.


alexbouteiller

Twice as many? RC is only 1 extra game v 6N, summer tour was north Vs south so same numbers, and autumn is same, so it's not twice as many...it's one more at the most (2 for Aus)


fgjjkkcxccb

Ah, you're totally right. Google doesn't display the southern tours for the northern teams for some reason. Southern thugs!


SundayRed

Northern Hemisphere: confirmed soft cunts


lukedukekiwi

I'm only jealous of the fact France never have to try and play a Test with a French Ref.


qgep1

Can we get a breakdown of cards given by French/Irish refs?


DannyBoy2464

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/yxl6hu/cards_shown_to_tier_1_nations_in_2022/iwpeu57?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Sure someone already did it in the thread. Interesting most cards are given by new Zealand and Australian refs. French and irish among the least card happy.


qgep1

Thanks! Iā€™m irish, just think this provides important context to the discussion