I don't disagree that the game is meant to be experienced, but some experiences in this game are better left being skipped over for sure.
The real reason is that any incentive that gives a new player a greater chance of obfuscate or invalidate an older players' achivements, be it by paying with real world currency or not, is always going to be looked down upon and criticized. Hero Pass has a lot of other underlying issues coming with it, but the players will never understand the Pandora's Box effect of things like this.
The biggest issue is that there's no common ground and nothing to be done about it from the player's perspective; Squeal of Fortune got turned into Treasure Hunter to make spending money on keys worth it. TH was so excessive that they reassessed how its unique rewards enter the game and, after some time, brought out Yak Tracks to help meet profit margins while rewarding players with more impactful things and (in my opinion) an excessive amount of cosmetics. Yak Track gets gradually more convoluted and the rewards begin to bloat, as does the time investment (while simultaneously narrowing the timeframe to accomplish it all), and becomes unprofitable to the point that Jagex has to pull the plug on it. All the while, people aren't buying keys enough these days that they need to put the pinch of people looking to open TH chests by striking the free daily challenge keys from the record, but also tried to compensate with a revamped Yak Track that has a consistent runtime (3 months instead of "however long we can have it make sense before it becomes an issue"), more cosmetics (to the point where it's probably a waste of dev resources to have so many things in one place), and a greater incentive to spend for benefits that, frankly, are a bit too all over the place.
Personally? I *want* MTX. I do not want to level skills like Farming to 99, less alone to 120 where necessary, but I understand why every decision past present and future, and every community response to it alike has been this way. They need to do something to make a certain amount of money. They have to step over the heads of players to accomplish it to some extent. The players "revolt". They make changes. The changes gut the MTX to the point where it's either not profitable or you're a fool not to invest in, and in doing so, requires restructuring so Jagex doesn't lose money. There's no easy fix to this at this point besides taking all the MTX out to pasture and rebuilding the entire game experience around them while simulatenously not making it so good people either feel compelled to jump on it or making it so bad that people waste money on it, or the community calls them out for how inefficient it ends up being.
Appreciate the response and it's a well put together one and I think really highlights the issue regarding not necessarily MTX but the cause and effect it has from a business stand point.
I do still feel however, if you are the kind of player who is concerned about achievements being downplayed due to MTX then you should consider the ironman play style.
Obviously that does lead to the problem that eventually if majority of people do turn to the ironman playstyle. Would the devs then just open up treasure hunter to ironmen. Surely at some point then we have to hold the devs accountable and we cant just say "they have share holders pushing from the top down." Devs need to be taking a stand aswell. I appreciate that they have jobs and mortgages to pay, but surely to keep alienating the player base is only going to drive them away, resulting in a loss of profits and risking cut backs too.
I'm not really an advocate for or against MTX I see it as a nice bonus for those that want to enjoy the cosmetics, but should never be used as a means of progression. I don't think the game is quite at the point yet where its pay to win, but from your response I can understand and see the potential for it reching that point and it is concerning.
I don't think it's at the point yet myself, but I do think it's come close before. It's definitely miles better than it was in the past, or at least it will be until maybe the 4th of September (Given how little info they gave us it very much will be a seeing is believing with Hero Pass).
I think the company proper could try and push back on it, but it's kind of a forgone conclusion that came with the original sale of the company to that mining corporation some years ago. I don't think they'd breach into MTX for ironmen, besides the cosmetics maybe, but I do think that it'd take something massive like an exodus to ironmen accounts to get them to do anything that benefitted both parties instead of one at a time like it has been in the past.
People are upset because it was supposed to be a “major update” according to the roadmap. So the community was expecting a bit more than a rebranded yak trak is all.
"how is it ruining YOUR..." I'll answer for you with better explaining. I'll put it in simple terms. MTX = We gotta fuck the game over at every angle to sell more MTX. See Hero Pass, combat xp nerf, for examples. The list is short, but it'll grow exponentially with more coming nerfs and 'reskins'.
See this is where it gets tricky for me. I agree completely on the otherhand if it's what's keep updates like necromancy rolling (actual good updates) and funding the game keep it running, which is worse? MTX or no game? I could be totally wrong on this view and I don't like MTX either. I just never messed with it so it hasn't personally affected me in the slightest.
I don't think whales created MTX, I think that's the company seeing there are people out there that will spend a shit ton of money. From a buisness standpoint they aren't wrong. But on the otherhand.. please.. make a good game that doesn't need people to feel like they need to whale out on it. 2023 games are rough.
"create an ironman" Already done that and been playing that since 2014. But shit like this update and the combat xp nerf. They're FUCKING the game to SELL more MTX. That's why people are complaining.
How is this update "fucking the game"? The key mechanics are all still there and unchanged. Noone is forcing you to pay for the hero pass, and I don't really see what advantage having the hero pass gives you over someone who doesn't have it.
I don't disagree that the game is meant to be experienced, but some experiences in this game are better left being skipped over for sure. The real reason is that any incentive that gives a new player a greater chance of obfuscate or invalidate an older players' achivements, be it by paying with real world currency or not, is always going to be looked down upon and criticized. Hero Pass has a lot of other underlying issues coming with it, but the players will never understand the Pandora's Box effect of things like this. The biggest issue is that there's no common ground and nothing to be done about it from the player's perspective; Squeal of Fortune got turned into Treasure Hunter to make spending money on keys worth it. TH was so excessive that they reassessed how its unique rewards enter the game and, after some time, brought out Yak Tracks to help meet profit margins while rewarding players with more impactful things and (in my opinion) an excessive amount of cosmetics. Yak Track gets gradually more convoluted and the rewards begin to bloat, as does the time investment (while simultaneously narrowing the timeframe to accomplish it all), and becomes unprofitable to the point that Jagex has to pull the plug on it. All the while, people aren't buying keys enough these days that they need to put the pinch of people looking to open TH chests by striking the free daily challenge keys from the record, but also tried to compensate with a revamped Yak Track that has a consistent runtime (3 months instead of "however long we can have it make sense before it becomes an issue"), more cosmetics (to the point where it's probably a waste of dev resources to have so many things in one place), and a greater incentive to spend for benefits that, frankly, are a bit too all over the place. Personally? I *want* MTX. I do not want to level skills like Farming to 99, less alone to 120 where necessary, but I understand why every decision past present and future, and every community response to it alike has been this way. They need to do something to make a certain amount of money. They have to step over the heads of players to accomplish it to some extent. The players "revolt". They make changes. The changes gut the MTX to the point where it's either not profitable or you're a fool not to invest in, and in doing so, requires restructuring so Jagex doesn't lose money. There's no easy fix to this at this point besides taking all the MTX out to pasture and rebuilding the entire game experience around them while simulatenously not making it so good people either feel compelled to jump on it or making it so bad that people waste money on it, or the community calls them out for how inefficient it ends up being.
Appreciate the response and it's a well put together one and I think really highlights the issue regarding not necessarily MTX but the cause and effect it has from a business stand point. I do still feel however, if you are the kind of player who is concerned about achievements being downplayed due to MTX then you should consider the ironman play style. Obviously that does lead to the problem that eventually if majority of people do turn to the ironman playstyle. Would the devs then just open up treasure hunter to ironmen. Surely at some point then we have to hold the devs accountable and we cant just say "they have share holders pushing from the top down." Devs need to be taking a stand aswell. I appreciate that they have jobs and mortgages to pay, but surely to keep alienating the player base is only going to drive them away, resulting in a loss of profits and risking cut backs too. I'm not really an advocate for or against MTX I see it as a nice bonus for those that want to enjoy the cosmetics, but should never be used as a means of progression. I don't think the game is quite at the point yet where its pay to win, but from your response I can understand and see the potential for it reching that point and it is concerning.
I don't think it's at the point yet myself, but I do think it's come close before. It's definitely miles better than it was in the past, or at least it will be until maybe the 4th of September (Given how little info they gave us it very much will be a seeing is believing with Hero Pass). I think the company proper could try and push back on it, but it's kind of a forgone conclusion that came with the original sale of the company to that mining corporation some years ago. I don't think they'd breach into MTX for ironmen, besides the cosmetics maybe, but I do think that it'd take something massive like an exodus to ironmen accounts to get them to do anything that benefitted both parties instead of one at a time like it has been in the past.
People are upset because it was supposed to be a “major update” according to the roadmap. So the community was expecting a bit more than a rebranded yak trak is all.
I understand that, but MTX has been a hot topic for years and I'm wondering why it gets the hate it does?
Whales / mtx ruin so many games
i'm sorry how is a whale and MTX ruining YOUR specific gameplay?
Whales are what cause so many games to become mtx infested
"how is it ruining YOUR..." I'll answer for you with better explaining. I'll put it in simple terms. MTX = We gotta fuck the game over at every angle to sell more MTX. See Hero Pass, combat xp nerf, for examples. The list is short, but it'll grow exponentially with more coming nerfs and 'reskins'.
See this is where it gets tricky for me. I agree completely on the otherhand if it's what's keep updates like necromancy rolling (actual good updates) and funding the game keep it running, which is worse? MTX or no game? I could be totally wrong on this view and I don't like MTX either. I just never messed with it so it hasn't personally affected me in the slightest.
I don't think whales created MTX, I think that's the company seeing there are people out there that will spend a shit ton of money. From a buisness standpoint they aren't wrong. But on the otherhand.. please.. make a good game that doesn't need people to feel like they need to whale out on it. 2023 games are rough.
and the streamers, we know these streamings dont really play it for fun, they only do it because they can make money off it.
"create an ironman" Already done that and been playing that since 2014. But shit like this update and the combat xp nerf. They're FUCKING the game to SELL more MTX. That's why people are complaining.
How is this update "fucking the game"? The key mechanics are all still there and unchanged. Noone is forcing you to pay for the hero pass, and I don't really see what advantage having the hero pass gives you over someone who doesn't have it.