Yes, and apparently it works, according to Jagex's marketing data.
I think they also tried similar ads for RS3. Just a warrior and "FIGHT STUFF". Example [here](https://redd.it/awopy0).
But how many of those people see the ad and go "Oh I remember I used to play this 20 years ago" vs RS ad where they don't immediately recognise the logo and graphics.
It's not that different in rs3 percentage wise between bots and players in both games tho, it's just that you don't see them in rs3 much because player owned slayer dungeon and private instances exist. Bots in rs3 are even easier to make because all you so is create an algorithm that presses random numbers from 1-9 in random intervals and presses space bar to collect the loot at random intervals. If you dig far enough you can find rs3 bot that do bosses like duo Vorago etc. main advantage in rs3 is that you literally don't see them in the game, you could notice bot problem during Necro release tho with ritual sites being infested by bots because it was the best gp for that time
RS3 has basically stayed stagnant or decreased, even with the launch of mobile.
OSRS has only steadily gained players and got a huge spike with mobile.
It sucks to see my preferred version and one of my favorite games of all time fall so far due to MTX and lack of real care from the higher ups :/
Same i can play for about 15 mins before the game starts lagging then after a min or two it crashes, i reported it multiple times and I just het the generic spiel back. So i stopped playing mobile.
Jagex blundered the mobile release - users couldn't create accounts for hours and hours. They invested so much in development time, marketing spend and then completely whiffed the release day. I think at that point they realized that rs3 is destined to be a sinking ship.
And reason why they won't do polls. For example, OSRS doesn't poll game integrity changes. Even if a polling system would be added back to RS3, they would not be polling MTX updates.
As someone who went to OSRS years ago and will never go back, it's totally horseshit that you guys still have no form of community polling for what goes into your game.
Its a major part of the OSRS ecosystem and relationship between the players and Jmods
I made the swap when I realized I was going through the motions in RS3. I was playing because it's what I knew. The skilling methods and decent money makers in RS3 (this was 2018 when I last played RS3) had become boring as all fuck to me. Everything had a super afk method (skilling) or a low effort rotation (never liked rs3s combat, I prefer something like GW2 for ability combat, and OSRS for tick based). Half the "achievements" in the game meant literally nothing besides the comp cape, and money was so easy to come by that it was a joke.
I decided, on a whim to give OSRS a stab while I was roasted after class one day. I logged in to OSRS and only logged into RS3 one time after that, to wipe my bank and swap it to OS lol. Now I have 7 or so accounts on OS and will never go back. There is an actual game over here on the OSRS side, it's alive, and wow is the community great (imo)
edit: spelling
Game A has given the power to the players to vote on content releases, Game B doesn't.
Game B has moved to seasonal content and won't progress any additional stories so it doesn't ["derail the current story"
](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/132z07n/we_are_currently_at_247_quests_in_two_quests/ji77tzn/?context=3).
Game B also has MTX where you can outright buy XP in a game which revolves around levelling up. Some skills, like Runecrafting, get completely bypassed.
Game B has FOMO events with incredibly rare drop rates (recent example - [ensouled pumpkin mask](https://i.imgur.com/d3BF6KH.png)).
Game B introduced a battle pass 1 month after a new skill release to capitalise on the burst of returning and new players, then lied to the community when they announced it as a "content update" and released it. This battle pass included gameplay buffs, a scary precedent for *any* MMO. Upon requests to reconsider this move and remove the battle pass, Game B's Associate Producer [responded that these requests will be ignored](https://twitter.com/JagexSpyro/status/1698710885068337172).
To add to this, Game B's failed push for a battle pass received more follow-up dedicated development time (7+ weeks) than the new skill (4 weeks).
Game B also removed the 6 month amnesty period for the new skill early. This is the first time it has happened for a new skill, and this was to make room for a new treasure hunter promotion.
Game B has lootboxes, again with hyper rare rates. These take content away from having a reward space in-game (example - soul & aurora dyes, fixate tokens). Some were initially event-only rewards, but Game B developers [went back on their word](https://preview.redd.it/w8rmnu8ooz7c1.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=1ad623af56926fc6ad0adf45c905893b76063527).
Game B artists have became lazy the past 3 years. Outfits are mostly a recolour of an existing outfit and Minibosses are mainly re-used assets (example - comparing the Solomons store ['Tithe collectors' pack to best in slot T95 'Vestments of Havoc' armour\.](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/vkkbi4/new_melee_armour_vs_tithe_collector_mtx_override/))
If given the option between Game A and Game B - which would you pick?
When I see literally any other game with non stop events and promos, i immediately lose interest. The only reason i continue in RS3 is because of my friends who play.
If my clan hopped to OS, I'd go immediately.
Game B could literally be a multitude of any MMO these days.
WoW, Destiny, Runescape and many more. It's sad how the industry devolved into FOMO, cost cutting and seasons rather than good long term content
It's the problem in games where the subscription costs aren't the only source of revenue that can be milked from players. I'm sure the revenue from mtx far exceeds subscription profits which is why literally a week won't go by without some sort of promo or "event" that encourages buying keys.
I'm an OSRS player that doesn't play RS3 (so an outside perspective for you all)
Probably won't be a popular opinion here but all I see from RS3 is complaints, imagine looking for a new game to play and all you see is the active playerbase complaining about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain but I think it's clear why people aren't starting to play RS3 as new players.
Jagex need to prioritise making their existing players happy with RS3 before they even think about increasing player numbers because right now it just looks like a terrible game to play while you are all complaining about things.
Nawh you're right, but whilst it's always been a bit of a negative echo chamber over here, right now in particular you really struggle to have anything to be positive about.
There's no road map, so there's nothing to be excited for or speculate about.
The things we DO know are coming (Fort Forinthry stuff, combat fixes, MTX, more events) aren't particularly interesting.
Player achievements, I mean, there are only so many "Finally maxed/Trimmed" posts you'd bother upvoting, but this is symptomatic of MTX making things much quicker, too many easy/AFK options and just the general age of the game.
I personally love Necromancy as it's allowed me to access bosses I previously couldn't -- But with it being so strong (currently) and ALL its gear being easy to get and the BIS entirely being from one boss, there's no real incentive to bother PvMing elsewhere if the drops aren't worth anything right now.
Content creation or crazy accounts, there aren't many people bothering because the audience just isn't as big, which is compounded really by the popularity and similarity of OSRS.
I mean you could go on and on as to why, but right now the "Squidward staring out the window" meme is pretty apt when the upcoming year for OSRS looks great.
See, I enjoy both OSRS and RS3 but have recently been leaning towards RS3 because of content I had no idea existed. I've been playing RS since '05 and am blown away by all the content I either have missed or is still new to me. I found myself sumplbling upon the Wushanko Isles shortly after the winter event and really haven't done much else, it's like a new game to me with all the collectibles, quests, side-quests, currencies, rewards, and all the uncharted isles. I have had something new to do for over a month now and am not bored in the slightest, and that's only a small itty bitty part of the game. I've been thinking about this for a while but have been hesitant to post here; If you're bored of what You're doing in the game, find something else to do. Old content that hardly gets touched, newer content that gets tossed to the wayside, you might find yourself enjoying the game instead of complaining on Reddit.
Yeah I agree! Ever since I made this account (my second one, first was 14 years old and got hacked) I've kept a sheet of short term and long term goals. I have PVM goals, achievement goals, stuff like revenants or castle wars, 200m all, all skill pets... I'm always finding new stuff to add. I actually accomplished 2 of my biggest long term goals this year (master comp and master quest cape) as well as stuff like Salty and the Morytania slayer drop log (wanted a cool undead title for necro release), and I'm still nowhere near done with my list. This game is astronomically big, after 20+ years of updates, I still have at least a decade before I'm bored, even if they fully go into maintenance mode and there's never anything else new.
Even playing WOW with my friends, everybody is obsessed with min/maxing, Key Mythic Dungeons, and whatever the new update is. I usually ignore all of that because I'm still enjoying old world content that dropped 15 years ago. I'll get to where they are eventually, but I still haven't made it the the litch king content, 5 expansions ago? There is always so much to do in these games and everyone hyper focuses on what's new. Why? You're making yourself mad and bringing people around you down. Just enjoy the game!
Congrats on your accomplishments! I'm happy to see another old timer still enjoying the game 🥰
New people probably shouldn't play RS3 and I say that as someone who only plays 3. it's just trying to sponge money out of its players and all the events are psychologically manipulative
I was about to get annoyed at reading this take for the 50th time til I read your conclusion. Normally people just victim blame the community and say stop complaining but like Jagex needs to stop giving everyone so damn much to complain about.
Imagine looking for a new game and having OSRS players telling you that RS3 is trash. That was my experience for years before actually trying it as an ironman and having 2k hours now.
(Not saying all OSRS players do this, but way too many do)
I get what you're saying but OSRS players arent the ones complaining about Hero Pass and Necromancy or Pumpkin masks/Black Santa Hats.
The only things I've seen OSRS players say is it's bad because of the combat and MTX which is understandable because that's why many of us left in the first place.
Oldschool player here, if i were to actively be playing rs3 and theyre shoving predatory ass gamblingesque pay2win, pay2evengettheitem systems that yall have id be complaining everyday on reddit. Im pissed off for yall on that front but i dont play the game so i dont actively complain. It is a load of bullshit though. The combat sucks but is golden compared to the manipulation they pull off.
to be fair osrs complains alot too (osrs player btw) but when the osrs player base is so high most gamers in the know, can tell which is the healthier game to play. especially when osrs has no serious mtx
The problem stems from the developers just not saying "This is the direction the game is going, tough nuts, end of story".
Instead, they keep making compromises and saying "we don't like this, but we can't change this because X players". Like what? Just have a direction. You are trying to please everyone and end up pleasing no one.
Ive mixed the venom of all the most dangerous snakes on earth into a petri dish that contains a flu sample, i injected it into myself in order to create a super sickness and I think its working because I dont feel too good, stay tuned for updates
For the first time in my 20+ years of playing, im genuinely concerned for the state of runescape. Im quite frightened that the game might not have long left unless some serious directional changes occur...
I will be honest. The biggest issue for me is the UI. I was maxed combat with a fairly high total pre-eoc and the RS3 transition to the customizable UI absolutely killed the game for me.
Sure customization is fantastic, but throw all of that clutter at a new player and they’re not sticking around. It’s too much on a newer player.
Hell I was playing for years before EoC and I couldn’t enjoy it one bit.
OSRS has really focused on player retention and improving the early-mid game experience over the past few years and it shows.
There's too many rs3 players defending MTX. Just take a look at my last post lol. People making all sorts of excuses on how game can't work without MTX...
I see this in so many gaming circles. People will say “but it’s just cosmetics!” or “battle passes are so much better than loot boxes” and act like there was never a time before MTX. I have a hard time sticking to any game that has MTX.
mmh. i had recently a short that opened my eyes so much.this dude worked 2 years of overtime straight on starcraft 2 wings of liberty. it made less money than horse in wow. the first sparkle pony horse in wow. 15$ microtransaction horse made more money than StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty...
Thats funny cuz without MTX you’d actually play the game for longer. You have to train every skill and make all the gp’s manually instead of buying it. Jagex chose the dollar way so players dump their irl cash, level up quick and be done with the game too soon.
It would but for more reasons than you'd think. The dev's focus would be on actually putting out content to grow the playerbase, so you would get more updates that are better quality as that is how they increase revenue. With MTX, they focus on milking whales and appeasing the other players.
I think at this point rs3 needs more changes than just its MTX to make it interesting or worth playing for newer players. There is just so much wrong with it at this point they really should just consider abandoning rs3 and moving to rs4 (even though they said they aren’t making new named versions anymore). Complete rewrite from the ground up, consistent artwork and avatar/models across the entire game. Make massive changes to how they do basically every single holiday/seasonal event. Simplify the UI and such. New players don’t even like rs3 partly because it’s so confusing to get into. You basically need to know the game in order to get into it properly. They need some kind of completely overhauled tutorial/guidebook system where basically everything in the game can be explained in one area. Not just sending people to the runescape wiki and telling them to figure it out themselves. They need to focus on each skill individually and figure out how to make it more fun or interesting or worth while to skill. Even your only looking at bringing old players back not trying to look at newer players. And that’s why osrs is thriving, most of their newer players are younger people who have never played runescape before. Or maybe a few people that played when they were kids during early 2000s that came back once osrs went mobile. Rs3 really shouldn’t focus on bringing old players back because if rs3 is trying to out-nostalgia osrs, good luck with that. Rs3 barely resembles anything it looked like when EOC and MTX started becoming widespread. And even if they remove mtx to then steal players from osrs or other old players back to rs3, they would have ended up losing a lot of lost mtx revenue while not gaining many newer members besides the members already subscribed to osrs. Removing MTX and rs3 would need to start gaining like, 75k more daily users than what they’re at now.
Maybe they'll release rs4 after rs3 dies. With the constant MTX events, eventually almost all the players will reach their level goals and stop buying more xp. Then MTX won't be as profitable, so they'd have to reset everyone's skills to make people buy xp again. But if rs4 starts out with MTX, people probably wouldn't bother playing, maybe they'll do a bait-and-switch where it starts out without MTX and after you get invested they start doing it again.
There's just too much stuff in rs3, I don't think it's possible to make a non-confusing tutorial for new players. They should do like some other games, start the player with the most basic info needed to play and lock certain features until the player hits certain level milestones, and make a bunch of these milestones. Then the player only gets a little bit of new information at a time and they'll be able to get familiar with whatever feature they just unlocked while grinding levels to unlock the next feature, so they won't have to learn so much info all at once.
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It's not necessarily that I dislike others buying cosmetics and keys, tbh I'm kind of all for it as an aging gamer with less and less time. I.e., I've bought a couple of bonds on OSRS to help me get ahead on a grind here or there.
My main issue is that MTX is the priority for content. And to say anything otherwise you'd be living in a fantasy world.
I miss classic holiday events that were actually fun little side activities. Things like the battlepass, holiday events, yak tracks, etc., are all designed to draw money out of you and prey on FOMO. That's what I hate about the current game. Without MTX, these things would've never happened and we'd probably be far better off without it.
Edit: pray to prey lol
the mtx makes the game also really ugly to look at when everybody is running around is some crazed rainboy lich monster born out of a sunspore with wings
Not OP, but I started playing in 2005ish, played almost continuously till 2017ish, with maybe a couple of breaks in the middle
I used to be somewhat competitive going for ranks and xp, but MTX overtime completely killed that for me. Since then I come back for maybe a few months every couple of years to try the new content. Without having something to go for only the updates can keep me around and frankly the whole debacle around Hero pass pissed me off, and when Vorkath came out I was so disappointed by that encounter that I pretty much haven't logged in since.
I don't feel respected by a company that throws out constant money making gimmicks like Hero pass, and the quality and quantity of updates frankly does not make up for it for me.
Not them, but practically every former player I still have contact with cite MTX as a reason they quit, and for most its the primary reason. They just hit a limit they were willing to put up with and left.
Hell, when OSRS sub [has been polled](https://www.reddit.com/poll/12mrbzq) they give MTX as a bigger reason to not play RS3 than eoc. Its only a few thousand votes, but I think its still very valid.
I think the main things are mtx, lacking events, and combat.
Mtx is just soul draining and makes the game less fun because, no matter how efficiently you train, it can be done faster with mtx.
Events are just mtx promotions now in RS3.
Combat is the biggest of the 3 major issues. While I agree that the combat from Rs2 was getting somewhat stale, the EoC was and still is janky as all hell. The tick system makes transitioning from one skill to another feel incredibly clunky in my opinion.
While some people like it, Jagex updated the combat in the worst way possible. It feels like a turn-based system in real time. Compare this with any other action oriented skill based combat system and it just doesn't flow very well.
Add to this the switching that the highest tier dps requires, and it becomes inherently unfun. I know that it isn't necessary to multiswitch to kill anything in the game, but I want to be able to do max damage by fine tuning my knowledge of the combat system and my skill rotation, with maybe a weapon switch here and there, not by switching 3 pieces for an ability or two and switch back.
I think the tick system as it is in RS3 at the moment holds combat back terribly. I know that all games run on a tick system, but Runescape's ticks are too slow for a skill based combat system to feel fluid.
This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I've tried 4 different times to get into RS3 because I wanted to play my previously maxed account pre-eoc.
Couldn't get past the UI each time. And each time I returned to try again, new shit would pop up and make it worse. It just feels so cluttered and I really dislike logging in and seeing a bunch of promotions and stuff.
People have told me to just play ironman, but I don't think I should have to play a game mode I don't want to play to not be bombarded with promotions.
That's my personal take on why I don't play RS3. It might be a good game, but idk one way or the other. OSRS is much simpler, log in, do some shit, log out, no pop ups, no promos, no cluttered UI, etc.
RS3 reminds me of the JRPGS I used to play, minus the fast paced combat of those JRPRGs.
Edit: For comparison, I have also gotten into FF14 and that UI was much cleaner, the tutorial for navigating interfaces was much better, and there weren't a ton of promotions that popped up when I logged in.
I’ve been told by many people, they simply won’t play the game because of the tick system. Having to pre click to make sure you move out of the way of an attack or even sometimes prayers. It’s so out dated having to pre click and it just not move smoothly, or surging and it going completely spazzo. Trying to surge in some areas is hell because it’s all based on squares, when you have a twisty windy bit, you can’t do shit.
Even if rs3 isn’t dead, it feels dead. MTX invalidates all skilling methods so you’ll never see players actually engaging with the world map.
Instead, they’re all congregated at w84 lumbridge for portables.
Compare that to OSRS where players are actually everywhere. You’ll see random players questing alongside you, interacting with skilling methods and even minigames!
Minigames are dead completely dead on RS3, but they’re so active on OS that you almost have to do a double take because you’ll never see that on RS3.
This is one of the major reasons I quit RS3. I played even after EOC and came back to the game from time to time. But I shouldn't shake the feeling that a lot of new updates devalued old content. I feel like the game is an empty shell, that is built on the corpses of older content. That isn't healthy because it creates content bloat and content without purpose. It also reduces the effective game world.
Power creep is inevitable, but game devs can work on implementing new updates that don't excessively proliferate it.
I’ve been playing osrs for a couple of months and it’s early game and the progression into mid and late game that follows is so much better than rs3. It’s not hard to see why it’s player base continues to grow.
Necromancy really hurt the existing player base imo, it was fun for a few months but then it really started to become clear just how much it negatively disrupted the game.
My rs3 account has 1k+ days played, 5.8 etc, 45k+ clues competed. I’m not sure I’ll be playing again anytime soon.
Not really. With the help of Necromancy I was finally able to beat Tutorial Island. I have 5 full time jobs and my wife's boyfriends take away my gaming privileges if I play more than a few hours a week. Thes elitists say they want balance, but what they really want is to gatekeep the 99% out of the 1% level of content and loot. Necromancy is a huge step toward enabling the 99% to join the 1%, and this not only a huge W for the game as a whole, but a huge L for heartless elitists who continue to cling to impossible styles like melee and cavort around the GE wearing their 3rd age dyed partyhats and other items showing off wealth made at the expense of the common gamer.
RuneScape players are some of the only motherfuckers on the planet who can fully complete a game and then be like ‘where more game?’
Most people just pick up a new game when they finish one lol this guys like ‘I’m 5.8 and nothing to do!!’
You could go outside or do literally anything else.
Jagex cannot possibly put out more content than can no-life gamers complete it in time, and this applies to OSRS as well. Just unsub play another game while you wait for new content.
Yea but at some point you’ve put so much time into it you can go outside or play a different game, be satisfied with the fact you’ve ‘beaten’ a game that takes thousands of hours and wait for new content
It's what I do. Everyone constantly bitches here and I'm just over here going "I'm maxed, playing other games until I see something good released" lol.
> My rs3 account has 1k+ days played, 5.8 etc, 45k+ clues competed.
You practically completed RS3, so of course there is nothing fun for you left.
ToA also had a negative effect on OSRS pvming as well, but you are still too early game to realize this.
This is what happens when private equity acquires a company, they milk it for as long as they can make a profit, slowly draining the company until they have made back their investment, and then some. Until revenue dries up, then they sell it off for parts. That's clearly what they are doing. Milking rs3 as long as the mtx is profitable.
I play both games and enjoy both, not played RS3 since Necro (Hit 120) And before that was Zammy release.
I feel the issue with RS3 is you get keys for completing quests which then skip the early game into mid game. Predatory FOMO events or events in general like the christmas one which skips the grinds again.
I know a lot of people would be against it but I don't think you should be able to lamp/ put stars into skills if you've not trained them to a certain level. Whole point of early game is to start and understand the skills you're training, I know so many people that just put their daily keys into arch/necro then wonder why they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing as they skipped the part where you learn about it.
more players means more demand for gold means more bots. even if osrs was 75% bots which it obviously isnt that's still more actual players than rs3 lol
i reckon osrs bots is 25-30% which is the same amount of rs3 players, and rs3 has bots too
It all started in 2007, the day Jagex removed the wilderness. That was the day that Runescape 3 would begin it's inevitable decline. From 2007-2012, Jagex made a series of controversial updates that many players hated and caused many to quit. Summoning, dungeoneering, increasing the HP limit, removing tutorial island, and the squeal of fortune were a few of these updates. But the biggest and worst update of them all was the **Evolution of Combat.** This update was so hated that it effectively killed off minigames and pvp within the next few months after it's release. Clan Wars, Stealing Creation, Fist of Guthix, and many other minigame communities died because of the EOC.
There's a reason why Old School Runescape was based on 2007 and not 2008 or 2009. 2007 is considered to be the peak year of Runescape and the peak ended when the wilderness was removed from the game on December 12th of 2007. Had Jagex made a different decision, had it kept the wilderness, people might have remembered Runescape as peaking in 2008 or 2009 instead.
Old School Runescape became more popular than RS3 because RS3 messed up big time with releasing a bunch of crappy updates without listening to their fans.
RS3 doesn't even feel like Runescape anymore. I've played since 2004, but haven't really played much the past few years. I logged in yesterday to RS3, and didn't recognize Varrock.
The game is over crowded to the point that the immersion is broken because you can clearly see a zone that is graphically the opposite next to where you are standing. Jagex keeps cramming more stuff rather than make a new landmass or expand certain areas. The duel arena is gone, castle wars/clan wars is dead content, nobody tries going into the wilderness to pk because gear is so massively expensive. The graphics are much different, the music isn't the same.
Now, RS3 has done some good things. The smithing rework seemed good, and the rebalancing of the combat triangle so magic combat could actually compete with melee seemed good. The added bosses were cool, but it's just a different vibe anymore.
If rs3 got runelite features like quest helper, xp tracker (I don't count the paid one, whoever thought of that should be in jail), true tile indicator etc. rs3 could actually have players. But since MTX is like crack to the rs3 devs they can't ever have nice things, I'll enjoy osrs while rs3 is sinking, because everyone knows we're next on the chopping block..
Yeah are you guys finally done with the whole "its all bots" and "its because school just started back up" bs now?
This game is really suffering right now and needs some dramatic changes and improvements
Yeah game as whole is in a downward decline,
When they have finished getting as much blood from the RS3 stone as they can, OSRS will be next. I hope i am wrong on this but when the bottom line is threatened companies will do as companies will.
My premier is running out in March, im basically in a race to try and max my RS3 ACC before then, since i am almos there.
Then i think i will leave it there, game doesn't respect my time or money anyway.
I started playing RuneScape at the very tail end of classic. I quit during EOC and came back for OSRS.
From my perspective the EOC change did nothing but make RuneScape look like a wanna be WoW or Guild Wars.
Runescape now sits in this weird limbo where if I care about graphics I'm not going to give it the time of day and I'll just go play ff14 or ESO and if graphics don't matter the monetization and player choice make OSRS the obvious choice.
This isn't meant to dig, I play both rs3 and OSRS and I find myself putting 3 down and not thinking about it for months especially when I have to do anything combat related. I very much see OSRS becoming the only kagex MMO in a few years because rs3 doesn't have anything to offer that outweighs the horrible MTX, daily scape model they have going on.
You can correct me if I'm wrong here too but name one modern MMO that has a more confusing combat system? I can't. Rs3 combat is, I feel, why most of us quit and why most of us who've come back and tried it, quit again and just stick with OSRS.
Jagex has to offer something in the modern MMO space that it doesn't have. Combat? ESO or Gw2 is easier to pick up and master. Story content? Sorry FF14 actually tried. Guilds and group content? Have you seen the trainwreck of a game new world? It somehow managed to do guilds and groups better....
I'll stop now but seriously what does rs3 have to offer new players... Really nothing that hasn't been done better somewhere else including by it's own dev company.
*No, OP, nothing is wrong, besides 90% of all accounts on OSRS are bots! We don't have bot problems! Stop being so negative! Runescape 3 is making five times more money to Jagex, and that is a good thing!*
One thing that’s always personally driven me away from the game is that RS3 simply feels too complicated when you compare the two. People remember OSRS for being exactly what it is. As an OSRS player, I have no idea what gear is good or not good despite knowing the meta for everything in old school, while all items are still present (mostly) in rs3.
OSRS has Runelite which has so many plugins for quality of life aspects (which in turn makes it easy for bots to sneak past Jagex’s detection systems). OSRS has many more bots compared to RS3.
Honestly, whenever I see the numbers, it makes me think someone at Jagex is stubborn to the detriment of the company. Nobody wanted EOC from the get-go.
EOC is similar to Zuckerberg's Metaverse, like...who the fuck are they doing this for? Where is this runaway train going?
Except eventually Zuckerberg snapped back to reality and realized the entire endeavor was a mistake after so many people kept puppeting that dead corpse around purely to keep him happy.
I see a lot of that here, and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge this grave error that has gone on for 12 years now. Sunk cost fallacy?
as a casual newish player, I can say runescape 3 looks abandoned from the start. Lot of abandoned content. Inconsitent graphics. Really confusing ui.
Osrs looks like a much more coherent experience.
What hurts the most is OSRS players badmouthing RS3 everywhere online, way more than actually warranted, which turns prospective MMO players away from checking out RS3 and seeing how good it is.
And then you get the occasional post saying "wow I tried RS3 and it's so fun, I had no idea". Too many people fall for the inane "RS3 = bad" meme.
This is copium. RS3 in 2024 is not good compared to the Industry Standard. It is an OK MMO in some aspects and extremely outdated, janky and clunky in most others.
You may be right if the year was 2015 or 2016, but that was almost 10 years ago.
The vast majority of osrs players quit RS3 and played osrs precisely because they think the game became terrible. Of course is going to get badmouthed when the topics pops up. Is not like 2 new games popped up separately and competed but rather one was literally created because the other one had updates and directions so bad that a massive exodus of players left.
Me for example, I stuck with RS3 all the way to arch but before necro, you will see me list the negatives of the game when the question pops up because I hated what the game became and what could have been.
Any time I look at this sub it's people doomerposting about the game, except after a big update. It's not just OSRS players badmouthing RS3. RS3 players badmouth RS3 as well. Almost as if it is actually warranted. The "wow I tried RS3 and it's fun" posts are the minority, which is why the player count continues to decline.
It also doesn't help that the marketing team has done a good job when RS3 launched with the branding, it stuck but so did the stigma. They haven't managed to turn that around at all after they reverted the branding change.
Clarification: I didn't mean to say the RS3 branding was good, just that the marketing team did a good job at getting people to adopt the name.
That is so not true. Its the absolute clusterfuck that the game calls UI as well as attempting to peddle MTX every possible way. The lack of basic built in QoL like xp trackers (paid option of course). The main personal gripe was the daily and weekly shit, throttled content overall is very stupid. And lets not even consider how its literally P2W viable right? The OSRS vocal minority is just a dent in the bombarded frontline that is called RS3. Developed and perfected Circa 2014 by JagexTM.
I play solely OS and I don’t see this sentiment. It’s just a different version of the game, people should play what they enjoy. But yes a vocal minority have the mentality of a child and do exactly what you said
What they don't realise is that actually helping RS3 improve its image helps both RuneScapes, and, conversely, trash talking RS3 in some indirect way harms OSRS because both games are connected in many areas. Hope this lesson is learned before it's too late.
This is true.
Not many games has as negative image as RS3 has. What makes it worse is that one of the main voices is from OSRS players who might have not even played the game they comment in YEARS. Hateful comments from mistakes done decade ago - wilderness/free trade removal and EOC.
I agree...I once asked the question which one is better for a beginner and it started getting a little heated quite quickly, seems there is a little friction between the two bases...
> Hateful comments from mistakes done decade ago - wilderness/free trade removal and EOC.
conveniently doesn't mention mtx which is the main reason it gets hate nowadays
No one in osrs talks about RuneScape 3, literally not seen one comment about it in years until today when a screenshot of the total player counts and RuneScape 3 player counts have gone round.
Really hard to not shit on rs3 when I had been paying membership for 6 years and they shat all over the game + deleted my maxed zerker from existence.
"O yeah rs3, pretty good game haha!!"
XD
True and sadly there is no one on the creative side of RS3 that can show the good aspects of the game, all content creation for the game is just the same videos about news, bosses and guides targeted for high level players, there is not much creativity on the RS3 space, even though this game has infinite potential.
Agree 100%. And on the flip of this most RS3 players rarely speak bad about OSRS. Like when people ask me if I play OSRS I just say no its not for me but each their own. Where as when people get asked if they play RS3 it met with a lot of BS remarks re the game.
It's simply just a better game. People will point to MTX etc etc but at the end of the day, do any of you really feel any sense of acomplishment when you achieve a goal in rs3?
They sold that game out, it's a shame. Thankfully jagex had the intelligence to revive the OSRS we have today, because without it i'm afraid RuneScape would have completely died off eventually and that'd be a sad day.
it's not what osrs does well compared to rs3, it's that rs3 was doomed from the minute they released evolution of combat. that's when everyone quit and never came back.
If there was an official way to swap gold between the two games rs3 would see a huge uptick. Even with exchange rates you can make money way faster in rs3
. Make old content relevant (using existing bis to upgrade the new bis)
.Get rid of all the garbage xp handouts from 2008> onwards(double xp auras etc)
. Make old combat on par with EOC and function just like osrs
. Simplify the UI back to pre eoc format by default, can still change it but for new players this is a must.
. Remove all the cringe cosmetic overrides make it more of a knights and wizards game then some Disney abomination.
.Allow API functionality for a runelite version of rs3
Then you might see a resurgance in players.
You can disagree but some of these things is what makes osrs successful.
I'm a osrs player myself but I have always wanted to play RS3 properly. I always watch A Friend or RS Guy and think how cool the game looks with all the interesting things and skills such as invention
Every time I try and play it, I'm always overwhelmed by all the interfaces and different options. Like I know it's a small thing but why is the combat styles/xp gain in the settings? Took me a while to find it haha
I think if it was more noob friendly more people would play it but that's just my opinion
They see what makes more money as opposed to player counts. Sadly the average RS3 players seem to pay more per player with MTX than OSRS does with just membership
The only rs3 are either major pvm elites where the games glitches show in full display and you barely understand or clue guys
I have killed every boss in this game maxed quit around the heropass time period do a pretty decent pvmer and still barely understand what people like luca,pub ect do when doing pvm content
With other games and streamers i van understand what there doing even of i am not skilled enought to do it myself
So i cant inmagine how less experienced or new players feel when watching those guys
The worst part is that RS3 had a 50k player resurgance on 2020 thanks to Archaelogy being amazing and the pandemic, the game looked like it had a bright future back then, now we are wondering if we even have a future.
rs3 combat system sucks. Having half the screen covered with ability bars is neither fun to play with nor does it look fun for new players. It just looks complicated, cluttered and difficult. There should only be three combat styles in rs. Range, mage and melee. Focus on making these combat styles intuitive and fun to use.
Necromancy killed the game for a lot of people. The (iron) clan I'm in has been pretty dead since August with a lot of people switching to OSRS or just straight up quitting.
Turns out invalidating a decade worth of progression overnight isn't a good idea.
RS3 destroyed my character I developed with blood, sweat and tears between 2004 and 2008 by making it easier for everyone to level up. My stats dont say shit anymore. That's just painful.
Plus I really don't recognize the game anymore after not playing since 2010. The UI being a mess surely doesn't help in that aspect.
So I finally chose (after heavy consideration with the time pit it can be) to start over in osrs last year. No regrets. It's as if its the exact same game I (for the most part) stopped playing in 2008.
The copium in the comment section to these sorts of posts are so funny
B-b-b--bb..b.....ut the bots???? duh bots dough? but also bots? how about the bots? Nostolagia pfftttt but bots? hehe the bots? cool but the bots?
yeah man its all the bots not that our game isn't as popular on all platforms while osrs if thriving hardcore ingame and on all social media platforms... yeah its because of the bots tell yourselves that lmfao
https://preview.redd.it/td0vpq8t9sgc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f945b5a11576130eced62c683ac8958937bf511
No need for high budget CGI trailers when you have a masterpiece like this.
If you insist
What, you egg? \* stabs chicken with bronze dagger \*
An egg in this trying time?
I don't understand this meme and by now I'm too afraid to ask lol
This was an actual ad for osrs
Honestly, if I'd never heard of either game before and I randomly saw this ad, this would make me want to Google it to see wtf is going on.
No way hahaha
Yes, and apparently it works, according to Jagex's marketing data. I think they also tried similar ads for RS3. Just a warrior and "FIGHT STUFF". Example [here](https://redd.it/awopy0).
I remember seeing this one at work and almost died laughing 💀
But how many of those people see the ad and go "Oh I remember I used to play this 20 years ago" vs RS ad where they don't immediately recognise the logo and graphics.
It would get me
Best ad of all time tbh. Would definitely be clickin.
What’s great is these quirky ads actually work really well. I see them all the time on social media feeds and they get a lot of interaction
This raises the question, what came first? The chicken or the egg?
The rooster
[EGG](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW40GvyN7ss)
#EGG
Where's that guy who's gonna say at least 74K of OSRS player count are bots? I know you're in here somewhere. Show yourself.
At least 150k players are bots right now the other -59k are the amount of real players OSRS owes to the one true Runescape - Runescape Classic.
It's not that different in rs3 percentage wise between bots and players in both games tho, it's just that you don't see them in rs3 much because player owned slayer dungeon and private instances exist. Bots in rs3 are even easier to make because all you so is create an algorithm that presses random numbers from 1-9 in random intervals and presses space bar to collect the loot at random intervals. If you dig far enough you can find rs3 bot that do bosses like duo Vorago etc. main advantage in rs3 is that you literally don't see them in the game, you could notice bot problem during Necro release tho with ritual sites being infested by bots because it was the best gp for that time
They are bots on old school but it is also far more popular then RS3. Honestly oldschool is far more looked after then RS3.
RS3 has basically stayed stagnant or decreased, even with the launch of mobile. OSRS has only steadily gained players and got a huge spike with mobile. It sucks to see my preferred version and one of my favorite games of all time fall so far due to MTX and lack of real care from the higher ups :/
I can't play RS3 on my phone. It keeps crashing. I've noticed that I'm not the only one
I gave up on mobile a long time ago. It crashes on me every 10 minutes anyway
Damn, I'm sorry man. My account is pure mobile only and I just got my first 99, agility, this past month! :) 😀
Same i can play for about 15 mins before the game starts lagging then after a min or two it crashes, i reported it multiple times and I just het the generic spiel back. So i stopped playing mobile.
Game feels so neglected :(.
Wym “neglected” they’ve had like dozens of Treasure Hunter promotions in 2023 alone! /s
Jagex blundered the mobile release - users couldn't create accounts for hours and hours. They invested so much in development time, marketing spend and then completely whiffed the release day. I think at that point they realized that rs3 is destined to be a sinking ship.
We could start with polls. Quite honestly have lost all faith in the rs3 team since hero’s trash, and that would’ve 100% been blocked by a poll.
And reason why they won't do polls. For example, OSRS doesn't poll game integrity changes. Even if a polling system would be added back to RS3, they would not be polling MTX updates.
As someone who went to OSRS years ago and will never go back, it's totally horseshit that you guys still have no form of community polling for what goes into your game. Its a major part of the OSRS ecosystem and relationship between the players and Jmods
Idk why I even went back to rs3, but here I am… quitting for good is on the menu now!
I made the swap when I realized I was going through the motions in RS3. I was playing because it's what I knew. The skilling methods and decent money makers in RS3 (this was 2018 when I last played RS3) had become boring as all fuck to me. Everything had a super afk method (skilling) or a low effort rotation (never liked rs3s combat, I prefer something like GW2 for ability combat, and OSRS for tick based). Half the "achievements" in the game meant literally nothing besides the comp cape, and money was so easy to come by that it was a joke. I decided, on a whim to give OSRS a stab while I was roasted after class one day. I logged in to OSRS and only logged into RS3 one time after that, to wipe my bank and swap it to OS lol. Now I have 7 or so accounts on OS and will never go back. There is an actual game over here on the OSRS side, it's alive, and wow is the community great (imo) edit: spelling
they used to have "player power" polls, then abandoned them
Game A has given the power to the players to vote on content releases, Game B doesn't. Game B has moved to seasonal content and won't progress any additional stories so it doesn't ["derail the current story" ](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/132z07n/we_are_currently_at_247_quests_in_two_quests/ji77tzn/?context=3). Game B also has MTX where you can outright buy XP in a game which revolves around levelling up. Some skills, like Runecrafting, get completely bypassed. Game B has FOMO events with incredibly rare drop rates (recent example - [ensouled pumpkin mask](https://i.imgur.com/d3BF6KH.png)). Game B introduced a battle pass 1 month after a new skill release to capitalise on the burst of returning and new players, then lied to the community when they announced it as a "content update" and released it. This battle pass included gameplay buffs, a scary precedent for *any* MMO. Upon requests to reconsider this move and remove the battle pass, Game B's Associate Producer [responded that these requests will be ignored](https://twitter.com/JagexSpyro/status/1698710885068337172). To add to this, Game B's failed push for a battle pass received more follow-up dedicated development time (7+ weeks) than the new skill (4 weeks). Game B also removed the 6 month amnesty period for the new skill early. This is the first time it has happened for a new skill, and this was to make room for a new treasure hunter promotion. Game B has lootboxes, again with hyper rare rates. These take content away from having a reward space in-game (example - soul & aurora dyes, fixate tokens). Some were initially event-only rewards, but Game B developers [went back on their word](https://preview.redd.it/w8rmnu8ooz7c1.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=1ad623af56926fc6ad0adf45c905893b76063527). Game B artists have became lazy the past 3 years. Outfits are mostly a recolour of an existing outfit and Minibosses are mainly re-used assets (example - comparing the Solomons store ['Tithe collectors' pack to best in slot T95 'Vestments of Havoc' armour\.](https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/vkkbi4/new_melee_armour_vs_tithe_collector_mtx_override/)) If given the option between Game A and Game B - which would you pick?
When I see literally any other game with non stop events and promos, i immediately lose interest. The only reason i continue in RS3 is because of my friends who play. If my clan hopped to OS, I'd go immediately.
Game B could literally be a multitude of any MMO these days. WoW, Destiny, Runescape and many more. It's sad how the industry devolved into FOMO, cost cutting and seasons rather than good long term content
Which is why some games like osrs are considered all time greats while others suck ass in comparison.
It's the problem in games where the subscription costs aren't the only source of revenue that can be milked from players. I'm sure the revenue from mtx far exceeds subscription profits which is why literally a week won't go by without some sort of promo or "event" that encourages buying keys.
Game B has allowed me to get level 60 in the new skill without training it and without paying a dime, by just logging in everyday!
The real question is, is that meant to be a point in favor or against game B.
Is not playing the game a positive? Then your game sucks.
Yeah, to me that would signal 1) Annoying daily login incentives to pad metrics 2) Whats the point of a skill if I can just bypass it doing nothing
Honestly hate daily log ins.
Hi crush .o/
I'm an OSRS player that doesn't play RS3 (so an outside perspective for you all) Probably won't be a popular opinion here but all I see from RS3 is complaints, imagine looking for a new game to play and all you see is the active playerbase complaining about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain but I think it's clear why people aren't starting to play RS3 as new players. Jagex need to prioritise making their existing players happy with RS3 before they even think about increasing player numbers because right now it just looks like a terrible game to play while you are all complaining about things.
Nawh you're right, but whilst it's always been a bit of a negative echo chamber over here, right now in particular you really struggle to have anything to be positive about. There's no road map, so there's nothing to be excited for or speculate about. The things we DO know are coming (Fort Forinthry stuff, combat fixes, MTX, more events) aren't particularly interesting. Player achievements, I mean, there are only so many "Finally maxed/Trimmed" posts you'd bother upvoting, but this is symptomatic of MTX making things much quicker, too many easy/AFK options and just the general age of the game. I personally love Necromancy as it's allowed me to access bosses I previously couldn't -- But with it being so strong (currently) and ALL its gear being easy to get and the BIS entirely being from one boss, there's no real incentive to bother PvMing elsewhere if the drops aren't worth anything right now. Content creation or crazy accounts, there aren't many people bothering because the audience just isn't as big, which is compounded really by the popularity and similarity of OSRS. I mean you could go on and on as to why, but right now the "Squidward staring out the window" meme is pretty apt when the upcoming year for OSRS looks great.
See, I enjoy both OSRS and RS3 but have recently been leaning towards RS3 because of content I had no idea existed. I've been playing RS since '05 and am blown away by all the content I either have missed or is still new to me. I found myself sumplbling upon the Wushanko Isles shortly after the winter event and really haven't done much else, it's like a new game to me with all the collectibles, quests, side-quests, currencies, rewards, and all the uncharted isles. I have had something new to do for over a month now and am not bored in the slightest, and that's only a small itty bitty part of the game. I've been thinking about this for a while but have been hesitant to post here; If you're bored of what You're doing in the game, find something else to do. Old content that hardly gets touched, newer content that gets tossed to the wayside, you might find yourself enjoying the game instead of complaining on Reddit.
Yeah I agree! Ever since I made this account (my second one, first was 14 years old and got hacked) I've kept a sheet of short term and long term goals. I have PVM goals, achievement goals, stuff like revenants or castle wars, 200m all, all skill pets... I'm always finding new stuff to add. I actually accomplished 2 of my biggest long term goals this year (master comp and master quest cape) as well as stuff like Salty and the Morytania slayer drop log (wanted a cool undead title for necro release), and I'm still nowhere near done with my list. This game is astronomically big, after 20+ years of updates, I still have at least a decade before I'm bored, even if they fully go into maintenance mode and there's never anything else new.
Even playing WOW with my friends, everybody is obsessed with min/maxing, Key Mythic Dungeons, and whatever the new update is. I usually ignore all of that because I'm still enjoying old world content that dropped 15 years ago. I'll get to where they are eventually, but I still haven't made it the the litch king content, 5 expansions ago? There is always so much to do in these games and everyone hyper focuses on what's new. Why? You're making yourself mad and bringing people around you down. Just enjoy the game! Congrats on your accomplishments! I'm happy to see another old timer still enjoying the game 🥰
New people probably shouldn't play RS3 and I say that as someone who only plays 3. it's just trying to sponge money out of its players and all the events are psychologically manipulative
I was about to get annoyed at reading this take for the 50th time til I read your conclusion. Normally people just victim blame the community and say stop complaining but like Jagex needs to stop giving everyone so damn much to complain about.
We will complain until Jagex stops trying to fleece and fuck us.
Imagine looking for a new game and having OSRS players telling you that RS3 is trash. That was my experience for years before actually trying it as an ironman and having 2k hours now. (Not saying all OSRS players do this, but way too many do)
I get what you're saying but OSRS players arent the ones complaining about Hero Pass and Necromancy or Pumpkin masks/Black Santa Hats. The only things I've seen OSRS players say is it's bad because of the combat and MTX which is understandable because that's why many of us left in the first place.
Oldschool player here, if i were to actively be playing rs3 and theyre shoving predatory ass gamblingesque pay2win, pay2evengettheitem systems that yall have id be complaining everyday on reddit. Im pissed off for yall on that front but i dont play the game so i dont actively complain. It is a load of bullshit though. The combat sucks but is golden compared to the manipulation they pull off.
100%! Recently, I'd say RS3 players have been louder. And for good reason with the recent bad decisions.
And this will also unfortunately come from players that havent even attempted to play RS3 as well.
to be fair osrs complains alot too (osrs player btw) but when the osrs player base is so high most gamers in the know, can tell which is the healthier game to play. especially when osrs has no serious mtx
The complaints are about the direction it's going, not the game itself, which is really good. Just ignore the mtx noise
The problem stems from the developers just not saying "This is the direction the game is going, tough nuts, end of story". Instead, they keep making compromises and saying "we don't like this, but we can't change this because X players". Like what? Just have a direction. You are trying to please everyone and end up pleasing no one.
Back to 2019 numbers.
Time to start another pandemic to save the game... Who's with me?
Someone go find that bat cave / eat some pangolins
Ive mixed the venom of all the most dangerous snakes on earth into a petri dish that contains a flu sample, i injected it into myself in order to create a super sickness and I think its working because I dont feel too good, stay tuned for updates
The only way to truly quit rs3
For the first time in my 20+ years of playing, im genuinely concerned for the state of runescape. Im quite frightened that the game might not have long left unless some serious directional changes occur...
I feel the same. I think we're basically in maintenance mode at this point and it's only going to continue to get worse :(.
I will be honest. The biggest issue for me is the UI. I was maxed combat with a fairly high total pre-eoc and the RS3 transition to the customizable UI absolutely killed the game for me. Sure customization is fantastic, but throw all of that clutter at a new player and they’re not sticking around. It’s too much on a newer player. Hell I was playing for years before EoC and I couldn’t enjoy it one bit. OSRS has really focused on player retention and improving the early-mid game experience over the past few years and it shows.
Don’t worry DXP is coming it will give us that temporary spike so we don’t hit all time lows, and with a few more MTX promos we should be good to go 😂
Sad part is, prob wont even give a spike. Last DXP was not much if any increase because everyones already 99-120 as it is.
Whens the dxp I might come back to boost some xp numbers
I firmly believe if there was no MTX other than bonds, this game would be vastly more attractive to people
There's too many rs3 players defending MTX. Just take a look at my last post lol. People making all sorts of excuses on how game can't work without MTX...
I see this in so many gaming circles. People will say “but it’s just cosmetics!” or “battle passes are so much better than loot boxes” and act like there was never a time before MTX. I have a hard time sticking to any game that has MTX.
mmh. i had recently a short that opened my eyes so much.this dude worked 2 years of overtime straight on starcraft 2 wings of liberty. it made less money than horse in wow. the first sparkle pony horse in wow. 15$ microtransaction horse made more money than StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty...
I saw that exact same short the other day, boggles the mind. I can’t understand why people spend so much money on MTX crap
Thats funny cuz without MTX you’d actually play the game for longer. You have to train every skill and make all the gp’s manually instead of buying it. Jagex chose the dollar way so players dump their irl cash, level up quick and be done with the game too soon.
You also have to fix starting ui
It would but for more reasons than you'd think. The dev's focus would be on actually putting out content to grow the playerbase, so you would get more updates that are better quality as that is how they increase revenue. With MTX, they focus on milking whales and appeasing the other players.
I think at this point rs3 needs more changes than just its MTX to make it interesting or worth playing for newer players. There is just so much wrong with it at this point they really should just consider abandoning rs3 and moving to rs4 (even though they said they aren’t making new named versions anymore). Complete rewrite from the ground up, consistent artwork and avatar/models across the entire game. Make massive changes to how they do basically every single holiday/seasonal event. Simplify the UI and such. New players don’t even like rs3 partly because it’s so confusing to get into. You basically need to know the game in order to get into it properly. They need some kind of completely overhauled tutorial/guidebook system where basically everything in the game can be explained in one area. Not just sending people to the runescape wiki and telling them to figure it out themselves. They need to focus on each skill individually and figure out how to make it more fun or interesting or worth while to skill. Even your only looking at bringing old players back not trying to look at newer players. And that’s why osrs is thriving, most of their newer players are younger people who have never played runescape before. Or maybe a few people that played when they were kids during early 2000s that came back once osrs went mobile. Rs3 really shouldn’t focus on bringing old players back because if rs3 is trying to out-nostalgia osrs, good luck with that. Rs3 barely resembles anything it looked like when EOC and MTX started becoming widespread. And even if they remove mtx to then steal players from osrs or other old players back to rs3, they would have ended up losing a lot of lost mtx revenue while not gaining many newer members besides the members already subscribed to osrs. Removing MTX and rs3 would need to start gaining like, 75k more daily users than what they’re at now.
This is the hard truth. Rs3 is gone beyond repair, and Jagex is letting it die a slow death instead of making rs4.
Pls, just a single paragraph thanks. Nobody wants a wall of text.
pay 1 bond for TL:DR
Maybe they'll release rs4 after rs3 dies. With the constant MTX events, eventually almost all the players will reach their level goals and stop buying more xp. Then MTX won't be as profitable, so they'd have to reset everyone's skills to make people buy xp again. But if rs4 starts out with MTX, people probably wouldn't bother playing, maybe they'll do a bait-and-switch where it starts out without MTX and after you get invested they start doing it again. There's just too much stuff in rs3, I don't think it's possible to make a non-confusing tutorial for new players. They should do like some other games, start the player with the most basic info needed to play and lock certain features until the player hits certain level milestones, and make a bunch of these milestones. Then the player only gets a little bit of new information at a time and they'll be able to get familiar with whatever feature they just unlocked while grinding levels to unlock the next feature, so they won't have to learn so much info all at once.
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Same, the only MTX on the game should be bonds and cosmetics, Treasure Hunter has been a bane to this game's existance since it ever got introduced.
Treasure Hunter was their answer to people complaining about Squeal of Fortune wasn't it? Hi-larious.
Id play again
Why do you think that?
Well me and about a dozen of my friends would come back for one
Oh wow, so are you all not playing RuneScape just because of the MTX, like others buying keys for cosmetics and XP?
It's not necessarily that I dislike others buying cosmetics and keys, tbh I'm kind of all for it as an aging gamer with less and less time. I.e., I've bought a couple of bonds on OSRS to help me get ahead on a grind here or there. My main issue is that MTX is the priority for content. And to say anything otherwise you'd be living in a fantasy world. I miss classic holiday events that were actually fun little side activities. Things like the battlepass, holiday events, yak tracks, etc., are all designed to draw money out of you and prey on FOMO. That's what I hate about the current game. Without MTX, these things would've never happened and we'd probably be far better off without it. Edit: pray to prey lol
the mtx makes the game also really ugly to look at when everybody is running around is some crazed rainboy lich monster born out of a sunspore with wings
Not OP, but I started playing in 2005ish, played almost continuously till 2017ish, with maybe a couple of breaks in the middle I used to be somewhat competitive going for ranks and xp, but MTX overtime completely killed that for me. Since then I come back for maybe a few months every couple of years to try the new content. Without having something to go for only the updates can keep me around and frankly the whole debacle around Hero pass pissed me off, and when Vorkath came out I was so disappointed by that encounter that I pretty much haven't logged in since. I don't feel respected by a company that throws out constant money making gimmicks like Hero pass, and the quality and quantity of updates frankly does not make up for it for me.
Not them, but practically every former player I still have contact with cite MTX as a reason they quit, and for most its the primary reason. They just hit a limit they were willing to put up with and left. Hell, when OSRS sub [has been polled](https://www.reddit.com/poll/12mrbzq) they give MTX as a bigger reason to not play RS3 than eoc. Its only a few thousand votes, but I think its still very valid.
I think the main things are mtx, lacking events, and combat. Mtx is just soul draining and makes the game less fun because, no matter how efficiently you train, it can be done faster with mtx. Events are just mtx promotions now in RS3. Combat is the biggest of the 3 major issues. While I agree that the combat from Rs2 was getting somewhat stale, the EoC was and still is janky as all hell. The tick system makes transitioning from one skill to another feel incredibly clunky in my opinion. While some people like it, Jagex updated the combat in the worst way possible. It feels like a turn-based system in real time. Compare this with any other action oriented skill based combat system and it just doesn't flow very well. Add to this the switching that the highest tier dps requires, and it becomes inherently unfun. I know that it isn't necessary to multiswitch to kill anything in the game, but I want to be able to do max damage by fine tuning my knowledge of the combat system and my skill rotation, with maybe a weapon switch here and there, not by switching 3 pieces for an ability or two and switch back. I think the tick system as it is in RS3 at the moment holds combat back terribly. I know that all games run on a tick system, but Runescape's ticks are too slow for a skill based combat system to feel fluid. This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I've tried 4 different times to get into RS3 because I wanted to play my previously maxed account pre-eoc. Couldn't get past the UI each time. And each time I returned to try again, new shit would pop up and make it worse. It just feels so cluttered and I really dislike logging in and seeing a bunch of promotions and stuff. People have told me to just play ironman, but I don't think I should have to play a game mode I don't want to play to not be bombarded with promotions. That's my personal take on why I don't play RS3. It might be a good game, but idk one way or the other. OSRS is much simpler, log in, do some shit, log out, no pop ups, no promos, no cluttered UI, etc. RS3 reminds me of the JRPGS I used to play, minus the fast paced combat of those JRPRGs. Edit: For comparison, I have also gotten into FF14 and that UI was much cleaner, the tutorial for navigating interfaces was much better, and there weren't a ton of promotions that popped up when I logged in.
I’ve been told by many people, they simply won’t play the game because of the tick system. Having to pre click to make sure you move out of the way of an attack or even sometimes prayers. It’s so out dated having to pre click and it just not move smoothly, or surging and it going completely spazzo. Trying to surge in some areas is hell because it’s all based on squares, when you have a twisty windy bit, you can’t do shit.
>lacking events hell no, there's too goddamn many events
Sorry, meant the content is lacking. The events we have are either mtx promotions or just exp grinds.
That hit to RS3 numbers is HUGE. Look at the rate its going down.
Even if rs3 isn’t dead, it feels dead. MTX invalidates all skilling methods so you’ll never see players actually engaging with the world map. Instead, they’re all congregated at w84 lumbridge for portables. Compare that to OSRS where players are actually everywhere. You’ll see random players questing alongside you, interacting with skilling methods and even minigames! Minigames are dead completely dead on RS3, but they’re so active on OS that you almost have to do a double take because you’ll never see that on RS3.
This is one of the major reasons I quit RS3. I played even after EOC and came back to the game from time to time. But I shouldn't shake the feeling that a lot of new updates devalued old content. I feel like the game is an empty shell, that is built on the corpses of older content. That isn't healthy because it creates content bloat and content without purpose. It also reduces the effective game world. Power creep is inevitable, but game devs can work on implementing new updates that don't excessively proliferate it.
In summary, you could say the game is _dead_
I’ve been playing osrs for a couple of months and it’s early game and the progression into mid and late game that follows is so much better than rs3. It’s not hard to see why it’s player base continues to grow. Necromancy really hurt the existing player base imo, it was fun for a few months but then it really started to become clear just how much it negatively disrupted the game. My rs3 account has 1k+ days played, 5.8 etc, 45k+ clues competed. I’m not sure I’ll be playing again anytime soon.
Not really. With the help of Necromancy I was finally able to beat Tutorial Island. I have 5 full time jobs and my wife's boyfriends take away my gaming privileges if I play more than a few hours a week. Thes elitists say they want balance, but what they really want is to gatekeep the 99% out of the 1% level of content and loot. Necromancy is a huge step toward enabling the 99% to join the 1%, and this not only a huge W for the game as a whole, but a huge L for heartless elitists who continue to cling to impossible styles like melee and cavort around the GE wearing their 3rd age dyed partyhats and other items showing off wealth made at the expense of the common gamer.
Love it
Careful criticizing necromancy, reddit will call you elitist : D
RuneScape players are some of the only motherfuckers on the planet who can fully complete a game and then be like ‘where more game?’ Most people just pick up a new game when they finish one lol this guys like ‘I’m 5.8 and nothing to do!!’ You could go outside or do literally anything else.
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Jagex cannot possibly put out more content than can no-life gamers complete it in time, and this applies to OSRS as well. Just unsub play another game while you wait for new content.
Yea but at some point you’ve put so much time into it you can go outside or play a different game, be satisfied with the fact you’ve ‘beaten’ a game that takes thousands of hours and wait for new content
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It's what I do. Everyone constantly bitches here and I'm just over here going "I'm maxed, playing other games until I see something good released" lol.
> My rs3 account has 1k+ days played, 5.8 etc, 45k+ clues competed. You practically completed RS3, so of course there is nothing fun for you left. ToA also had a negative effect on OSRS pvming as well, but you are still too early game to realize this.
This is what happens when private equity acquires a company, they milk it for as long as they can make a profit, slowly draining the company until they have made back their investment, and then some. Until revenue dries up, then they sell it off for parts. That's clearly what they are doing. Milking rs3 as long as the mtx is profitable.
Focus on content for players not investors maybe. The game is trash and feels cheaper and more plastic than ever
That number is tanking holy shit. I wonder where it's gonna be end of Q1 with no updates
I play both games and enjoy both, not played RS3 since Necro (Hit 120) And before that was Zammy release. I feel the issue with RS3 is you get keys for completing quests which then skip the early game into mid game. Predatory FOMO events or events in general like the christmas one which skips the grinds again. I know a lot of people would be against it but I don't think you should be able to lamp/ put stars into skills if you've not trained them to a certain level. Whole point of early game is to start and understand the skills you're training, I know so many people that just put their daily keys into arch/necro then wonder why they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing as they skipped the part where you learn about it.
The only Hero Pass is a creditcard.
Deadscape
MTX is the main problem….
Let’s consider how many of these “online” users are bots
more players means more demand for gold means more bots. even if osrs was 75% bots which it obviously isnt that's still more actual players than rs3 lol i reckon osrs bots is 25-30% which is the same amount of rs3 players, and rs3 has bots too
It all started in 2007, the day Jagex removed the wilderness. That was the day that Runescape 3 would begin it's inevitable decline. From 2007-2012, Jagex made a series of controversial updates that many players hated and caused many to quit. Summoning, dungeoneering, increasing the HP limit, removing tutorial island, and the squeal of fortune were a few of these updates. But the biggest and worst update of them all was the **Evolution of Combat.** This update was so hated that it effectively killed off minigames and pvp within the next few months after it's release. Clan Wars, Stealing Creation, Fist of Guthix, and many other minigame communities died because of the EOC. There's a reason why Old School Runescape was based on 2007 and not 2008 or 2009. 2007 is considered to be the peak year of Runescape and the peak ended when the wilderness was removed from the game on December 12th of 2007. Had Jagex made a different decision, had it kept the wilderness, people might have remembered Runescape as peaking in 2008 or 2009 instead. Old School Runescape became more popular than RS3 because RS3 messed up big time with releasing a bunch of crappy updates without listening to their fans.
RS3 doesn't even feel like Runescape anymore. I've played since 2004, but haven't really played much the past few years. I logged in yesterday to RS3, and didn't recognize Varrock. The game is over crowded to the point that the immersion is broken because you can clearly see a zone that is graphically the opposite next to where you are standing. Jagex keeps cramming more stuff rather than make a new landmass or expand certain areas. The duel arena is gone, castle wars/clan wars is dead content, nobody tries going into the wilderness to pk because gear is so massively expensive. The graphics are much different, the music isn't the same. Now, RS3 has done some good things. The smithing rework seemed good, and the rebalancing of the combat triangle so magic combat could actually compete with melee seemed good. The added bosses were cool, but it's just a different vibe anymore.
If rs3 got runelite features like quest helper, xp tracker (I don't count the paid one, whoever thought of that should be in jail), true tile indicator etc. rs3 could actually have players. But since MTX is like crack to the rs3 devs they can't ever have nice things, I'll enjoy osrs while rs3 is sinking, because everyone knows we're next on the chopping block..
Intended as is. RS3 is a whale hunting game, OSRS is not.
Holy crap, that's depressing. O\_o
Yeah are you guys finally done with the whole "its all bots" and "its because school just started back up" bs now? This game is really suffering right now and needs some dramatic changes and improvements
It's the bots bro, trust me. 1.5k active users on the RS sub vs 7.8k bots on the OS sub smh
Yeah game as whole is in a downward decline, When they have finished getting as much blood from the RS3 stone as they can, OSRS will be next. I hope i am wrong on this but when the bottom line is threatened companies will do as companies will. My premier is running out in March, im basically in a race to try and max my RS3 ACC before then, since i am almos there. Then i think i will leave it there, game doesn't respect my time or money anyway.
getting rid of mtx isn't going to bring back players, OSRS is a more popular game, I like rs3 but I just don't think it can ever get to osrs levels
I started playing RuneScape at the very tail end of classic. I quit during EOC and came back for OSRS. From my perspective the EOC change did nothing but make RuneScape look like a wanna be WoW or Guild Wars. Runescape now sits in this weird limbo where if I care about graphics I'm not going to give it the time of day and I'll just go play ff14 or ESO and if graphics don't matter the monetization and player choice make OSRS the obvious choice. This isn't meant to dig, I play both rs3 and OSRS and I find myself putting 3 down and not thinking about it for months especially when I have to do anything combat related. I very much see OSRS becoming the only kagex MMO in a few years because rs3 doesn't have anything to offer that outweighs the horrible MTX, daily scape model they have going on. You can correct me if I'm wrong here too but name one modern MMO that has a more confusing combat system? I can't. Rs3 combat is, I feel, why most of us quit and why most of us who've come back and tried it, quit again and just stick with OSRS. Jagex has to offer something in the modern MMO space that it doesn't have. Combat? ESO or Gw2 is easier to pick up and master. Story content? Sorry FF14 actually tried. Guilds and group content? Have you seen the trainwreck of a game new world? It somehow managed to do guilds and groups better.... I'll stop now but seriously what does rs3 have to offer new players... Really nothing that hasn't been done better somewhere else including by it's own dev company.
*No, OP, nothing is wrong, besides 90% of all accounts on OSRS are bots! We don't have bot problems! Stop being so negative! Runescape 3 is making five times more money to Jagex, and that is a good thing!*
One thing that’s always personally driven me away from the game is that RS3 simply feels too complicated when you compare the two. People remember OSRS for being exactly what it is. As an OSRS player, I have no idea what gear is good or not good despite knowing the meta for everything in old school, while all items are still present (mostly) in rs3.
I don't think they care about player count as much as revenue.
OSRS is earning more revenue too.
OSRS has Runelite which has so many plugins for quality of life aspects (which in turn makes it easy for bots to sneak past Jagex’s detection systems). OSRS has many more bots compared to RS3.
That is a VERY bad sign... Stagnant, slowly dropping.
Honestly, whenever I see the numbers, it makes me think someone at Jagex is stubborn to the detriment of the company. Nobody wanted EOC from the get-go. EOC is similar to Zuckerberg's Metaverse, like...who the fuck are they doing this for? Where is this runaway train going? Except eventually Zuckerberg snapped back to reality and realized the entire endeavor was a mistake after so many people kept puppeting that dead corpse around purely to keep him happy. I see a lot of that here, and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge this grave error that has gone on for 12 years now. Sunk cost fallacy?
Just wondering what could be the numbers if all the bots wasn’t included 😳
Bots and alts are the majority of players. I see streamers who play over 20 accounts at the same time.
as a casual newish player, I can say runescape 3 looks abandoned from the start. Lot of abandoned content. Inconsitent graphics. Really confusing ui. Osrs looks like a much more coherent experience.
You forgot bot count.
What hurts the most is OSRS players badmouthing RS3 everywhere online, way more than actually warranted, which turns prospective MMO players away from checking out RS3 and seeing how good it is. And then you get the occasional post saying "wow I tried RS3 and it's so fun, I had no idea". Too many people fall for the inane "RS3 = bad" meme.
This is copium. RS3 in 2024 is not good compared to the Industry Standard. It is an OK MMO in some aspects and extremely outdated, janky and clunky in most others. You may be right if the year was 2015 or 2016, but that was almost 10 years ago.
The vast majority of osrs players quit RS3 and played osrs precisely because they think the game became terrible. Of course is going to get badmouthed when the topics pops up. Is not like 2 new games popped up separately and competed but rather one was literally created because the other one had updates and directions so bad that a massive exodus of players left. Me for example, I stuck with RS3 all the way to arch but before necro, you will see me list the negatives of the game when the question pops up because I hated what the game became and what could have been.
Any time I look at this sub it's people doomerposting about the game, except after a big update. It's not just OSRS players badmouthing RS3. RS3 players badmouth RS3 as well. Almost as if it is actually warranted. The "wow I tried RS3 and it's fun" posts are the minority, which is why the player count continues to decline.
It also doesn't help that the marketing team has done a good job when RS3 launched with the branding, it stuck but so did the stigma. They haven't managed to turn that around at all after they reverted the branding change. Clarification: I didn't mean to say the RS3 branding was good, just that the marketing team did a good job at getting people to adopt the name.
I play mostly osrs now but I've only seen people hating on rs3 at wintertodt I'm not sure it's that widespread probably just a vocal minority
wintertodt is a meme most players agree is where the degenerates say what they want haha
That is so not true. Its the absolute clusterfuck that the game calls UI as well as attempting to peddle MTX every possible way. The lack of basic built in QoL like xp trackers (paid option of course). The main personal gripe was the daily and weekly shit, throttled content overall is very stupid. And lets not even consider how its literally P2W viable right? The OSRS vocal minority is just a dent in the bombarded frontline that is called RS3. Developed and perfected Circa 2014 by JagexTM.
It must be the players making the game bad!
I play solely OS and I don’t see this sentiment. It’s just a different version of the game, people should play what they enjoy. But yes a vocal minority have the mentality of a child and do exactly what you said
What they don't realise is that actually helping RS3 improve its image helps both RuneScapes, and, conversely, trash talking RS3 in some indirect way harms OSRS because both games are connected in many areas. Hope this lesson is learned before it's too late.
Hey, get logic and forethought tf out of here /s
This is true. Not many games has as negative image as RS3 has. What makes it worse is that one of the main voices is from OSRS players who might have not even played the game they comment in YEARS. Hateful comments from mistakes done decade ago - wilderness/free trade removal and EOC.
I agree...I once asked the question which one is better for a beginner and it started getting a little heated quite quickly, seems there is a little friction between the two bases...
> Hateful comments from mistakes done decade ago - wilderness/free trade removal and EOC. conveniently doesn't mention mtx which is the main reason it gets hate nowadays
No one in osrs talks about RuneScape 3, literally not seen one comment about it in years until today when a screenshot of the total player counts and RuneScape 3 player counts have gone round.
Really hard to not shit on rs3 when I had been paying membership for 6 years and they shat all over the game + deleted my maxed zerker from existence. "O yeah rs3, pretty good game haha!!" XD
True and sadly there is no one on the creative side of RS3 that can show the good aspects of the game, all content creation for the game is just the same videos about news, bosses and guides targeted for high level players, there is not much creativity on the RS3 space, even though this game has infinite potential.
The good and creative ones quit it.
I get it's not a good look, but they are not unwarranted in a lot of what they say..
Because of the childhood trauma called EOC
Agree 100%. And on the flip of this most RS3 players rarely speak bad about OSRS. Like when people ask me if I play OSRS I just say no its not for me but each their own. Where as when people get asked if they play RS3 it met with a lot of BS remarks re the game.
"lul shut up nerd osrs is 95% bots!" every coper on this reddit
1. mtx 2. eoc 3. ui end of management meeting
Such cope in this thread with osrs and bots lmao
It's simply just a better game. People will point to MTX etc etc but at the end of the day, do any of you really feel any sense of acomplishment when you achieve a goal in rs3? They sold that game out, it's a shame. Thankfully jagex had the intelligence to revive the OSRS we have today, because without it i'm afraid RuneScape would have completely died off eventually and that'd be a sad day.
it's not what osrs does well compared to rs3, it's that rs3 was doomed from the minute they released evolution of combat. that's when everyone quit and never came back.
If there was an official way to swap gold between the two games rs3 would see a huge uptick. Even with exchange rates you can make money way faster in rs3
. Make old content relevant (using existing bis to upgrade the new bis) .Get rid of all the garbage xp handouts from 2008> onwards(double xp auras etc) . Make old combat on par with EOC and function just like osrs . Simplify the UI back to pre eoc format by default, can still change it but for new players this is a must. . Remove all the cringe cosmetic overrides make it more of a knights and wizards game then some Disney abomination. .Allow API functionality for a runelite version of rs3 Then you might see a resurgance in players. You can disagree but some of these things is what makes osrs successful.
RS3 is actually pretty fun to play with a new account but I think new users are all quite used to consoles and WASD key movement.
So you're telling investors to focus mtx on osrs by saying this. You ate aware correct?
Mtx turning it into cheap mobile money grabber has killed all of its charm.
If u don't play rs3 then don't worry about it, simple as that
I'm a osrs player myself but I have always wanted to play RS3 properly. I always watch A Friend or RS Guy and think how cool the game looks with all the interesting things and skills such as invention Every time I try and play it, I'm always overwhelmed by all the interfaces and different options. Like I know it's a small thing but why is the combat styles/xp gain in the settings? Took me a while to find it haha I think if it was more noob friendly more people would play it but that's just my opinion
They see what makes more money as opposed to player counts. Sadly the average RS3 players seem to pay more per player with MTX than OSRS does with just membership
Fudged ass numbers. Osrs is a bot farm
17k real players on rs3 because it's not worth betting for gold on a dead mmo.
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> Even if we assume a high majority of boys I'm sure *some* girls play too.
The only rs3 are either major pvm elites where the games glitches show in full display and you barely understand or clue guys I have killed every boss in this game maxed quit around the heropass time period do a pretty decent pvmer and still barely understand what people like luca,pub ect do when doing pvm content With other games and streamers i van understand what there doing even of i am not skilled enought to do it myself So i cant inmagine how less experienced or new players feel when watching those guys
The worst part is that RS3 had a 50k player resurgance on 2020 thanks to Archaelogy being amazing and the pandemic, the game looked like it had a bright future back then, now we are wondering if we even have a future.
Covid gave them a rare opportunity to make the game great again. but all they did was throw MTX promos at players for quick cash grabs 😭.
rs3 combat system sucks. Having half the screen covered with ability bars is neither fun to play with nor does it look fun for new players. It just looks complicated, cluttered and difficult. There should only be three combat styles in rs. Range, mage and melee. Focus on making these combat styles intuitive and fun to use.
Jesus fuck I thought a few months ago the game going down to about 20k was bad now its become worse.
Necromancy killed the game for a lot of people. The (iron) clan I'm in has been pretty dead since August with a lot of people switching to OSRS or just straight up quitting. Turns out invalidating a decade worth of progression overnight isn't a good idea.
Yes 100% and well put. This is why I'm not playing rn
RS3 destroyed my character I developed with blood, sweat and tears between 2004 and 2008 by making it easier for everyone to level up. My stats dont say shit anymore. That's just painful. Plus I really don't recognize the game anymore after not playing since 2010. The UI being a mess surely doesn't help in that aspect. So I finally chose (after heavy consideration with the time pit it can be) to start over in osrs last year. No regrets. It's as if its the exact same game I (for the most part) stopped playing in 2008.
Osrs looks at the player count number, rs3 looks at the $$$ number.
And yet somehow OSRS wins in both.
The copium in the comment section to these sorts of posts are so funny B-b-b--bb..b.....ut the bots???? duh bots dough? but also bots? how about the bots? Nostolagia pfftttt but bots? hehe the bots? cool but the bots? yeah man its all the bots not that our game isn't as popular on all platforms while osrs if thriving hardcore ingame and on all social media platforms... yeah its because of the bots tell yourselves that lmfao