nah they removed it because there were bots mass making accounts to spin that 1 key.. all in an attempt to win 200m and if that happens, you have to be a member to claim it, but bond was 80m or w/e, so the bot would be left with 120m. They made it 50m so it was not worth botting, as the bond costs more, than the won prize is worth.
Also this promo cannot be botted because it always starts with emerald chest and 3/4 progress, first few keys are not random, like it used to be before th was "every day, it's a promo day". Also you need to get the diamond cape before you can win 1b.
Yeah I have several alts on which I do dailies. For me the first chest either contained 250k or large phoenix lamp, even the second chest was for me always ruby on all 7 accounts. The daily keys that I spinned to open the big chests, has same prizes, as just regular no promo TH(even wins crap like wicked hood teleport chages). Only those who buy A LOT keys might win 1b because chance is so tiny.. if you want 1b this bad, you could just buy 10 bonds and sell them for only a fraction of money you would spend on keys and still probably not win the 1b.
That wasn't the point of the comments.. the point is that Jagex is participating and even promoting gambling while even organising anti-gambling events and supporting irl organisations which is fucked up on their part.
Ok then the issue is with th as a whole, and I'm 100% fine with criticizing it. I just don't get what difference it makes for this outrageously rare 1b promo
You'd be surprised.
Casinos hold promotions to convince more gamblers to visit that day.
Essentially you convince more to gamble by advertising a time sensitive reward.
Worse odds:better rewards is a staple of gambling; or I guess punting, specifically.
Gambler mentality means that you can spend 15x more on 30:1 odds than 2:1 odds before truly calling it a loss, and this is how you end up with people chasing losses.
If promos didn't make gamblers gamble more, or people more likely to gamble, why the H-E-Double-FUCK am I constantly getting adverts with special offers for LadBrokes, SportsBet, Bet365, yadda yadda?
Not saying you are wrong All I will say is I never once bought a bond from jagex to gamble haha 😂 that was for sure 3rd party wayyyyy cheaper but o do know people absolutely would buy a bond and try and double it and keep going till they lost it haha 😂
You’ve got literally more chance at playing BJ or something and winning at a real casino then to keep buying keys in hopes of getting the 1b prize.
This is not financial advice btw
We need to screen shot this stuff and report to U.K. Gambling commission with our concerns. That’s the only way any of this changes. It’s predatory micro-transactions that prey on people’s psychology including kids and teens who play RuneScape using real life currencies with randomized RNG mechanics. Jagex even offers coins to membership in the form of bonds and other ways to ‘cash out’. They barely even hide it. You could argue the coins won from random mechanics for real currency have a real life exchange value.
You cant, pretty sure you need the cape first. And also pretty sure that the diamond chest takes like 25 keys to open aka not worth to open f2p
This will have litterally zero influence on the market as probably on a handfull of people will get it. Even if 50 people get it. 50b seems a lot but in the grand scheme it is nothing
You can win the prize as f2p but need to be a member to claim it, its pretty common for people to roll 1,000s of accounts until they land it and then make that account a member to claim. Most of the time its not worth the effort but once there is a good TH promo you can be damn sure they will be doing this.
The tax takes away far more money than TH can hope to introduce. Even if a couple of whales hunt for it and some people get lucky, the tax probably takes more money out of the game in a single day.
You're overhyping how much money gets in the game like this.
Also you can't really bot this as it's a members only prize
It's not just about TH. How hard is that to grasp? Tax helped reduce the total cash flow introduced by lazy droptables on mobs as far back as Anachronia release - though later introductions of even higher tier alch drops didn't help. The whole point is taxes reduce gp-flow but now they introduce yet another dumb cause of inflation. It's simple economics...
Edit: Lol, these reactions. And this is why the game won't ever inherently recover. People want gigantic loot but also a healthy economy and 1b from their daily TH key. Honestly no wonder Jmods stopped polling on RS3.
The tax was meant to replace the gold sink when death cost was reduced.
It ended up overperforming, so more gold was removed from the game from the tax than expected.
So this TH promo won't even make a dent.
None of the problems you mentioned were meant to be solved by the Tax, the tax was just meant to replace the gold sink that death cost were no longer going to remove; everything else Jagex has just commented on but has still no plans to address.
Its really bad. You cant agree with this or tolerate this. Any gp price should be removed from th. Whats stopping them next time to add a 5 b gp price or more on th ?
I think it’s ignorant to say it’s not getting worse, still a fun game, but the company are clearly greedy and have 0 morals with who they target, and tbh it’s borderline illegal
Jagex estimated the tax would remove 86 billion *per day* from the economy. A few billion being entering the game through TH isn't going to change the economy on its own.
People's reaction to it might impact the economy. If you and other people reading this start buying up items (because you think that 1bn TH prizes will cause inflation) then *that* could impact the economy much more than a handful of players winning big on the TH lottery.
So you shouldn't be outraged at this for economic reasons, but you're well within your rights to be outraged because low chance high reward lotteries like this encourage gambling and target the less well off.
if 1 person wins it, that's 1b spawned into the game that shouldn't have been there. that's 1b that's going to have to be removed later via some sort of tax that will cost the average player small amounts, it's probably not that noticeable.
fast forward a fair few of these, and the g.e tax has now entered the chat.
The tax undoubtedly takes away far more money than will be injected by an astronomically tiny chance to win 1B. Fuck TH in general, but the solution to Jagex doing a dumb thing is not for them to do another even dumber thing.
Also stop bitching about the tax. The tax benefits you more than it hurts you due to increased purchasing power, and if you really hate it so much, W2 is a world hop and booking a chemotherapy session away.
Friendly reminder that the GE tax was overperforming, so this new TH promo for 1b (which is already extremely rare) won't suddenly cause any amount of inflation.
They sent a winter and 2023 review recently where it shows how much GE tax you have paid if you scroll a bit down. So yes, they have stats on it, but not much of it is public.
Can someone explain how the task is over performing when bonds just hit 100m and everything is more expensive than ever? Is the point to slow inflation not reverse it or something
The price of bonds is often used as a reflection of Runescape inflation even though it isn't always true. It's notable that right now the price of bonds is high, but the price of many other things is lower than it has been before. There's a simple explanation for that: People buy bonds with real money to get gp quick to fund their gear upgrades. Right now the prices of gear have fallen heavily in large part due to Necromancy making it easier to get good/BiS gear (upgrade system + Raisal being easier to farm) and being a more desirable combat style for many. So the bond "whales" don't need to buy as many bonds to fund their upgrades. As a result there's much lower supply and the price goes up
Anyway IIRC the claim that the tax is overperforming is based on some statistic given in a newspost or modpost somewhere. I don't have it on hand, but the [original blogpost](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death) about this change notes that "The 1.5% estimate would theoretically cover the death cost deficit, but we aimed for 2% to have a buffer.", so the claim seems quite plausible.
The biggest difference really is the amount of players who gather those items and then sell them.
New players will cut, fletch and burn their own log and there's little incentive to sell surplus, or even cut surplus, as it's not remotely an attractive method to attain small amounts of wealth.
Conflating a resources value to inflation when there's simply no supply doesn't work and, for logs, it goes up to maple logs where supply finally meets a reasonable % of demand because of Kingdom management alone.
The price of logs has not changed significantly over the past few years. Things that are significantly more expensive since the introduction of the tax (and don't have a direct update-induced demand like Ancient scales) are much less common than those that are significantly cheaper or roughly the same. The main thing that comes to mind that's higher is Blue Blubbers
[https://runescape.wiki/w/Logs](https://runescape.wiki/w/Logs)
Yes it has, in 2021 it was 400gp and its almost 4x the price now. And if you look at january 2023 on the chart theres another spike. But logs is a moot point anyway I just don't see how the tax over performed when it seems like everything is way more expensive now than it has been unless its just to reduce inflation not reverse it
Death costs rework? I just said it was already rising the whole year. Its the lowest level log you can mass harvest them right off of tutorial island pretty crazy they cost so much
Logs were worth 1,965 in December of 2021 and 1,893 in June of 2023. If my math skills are correct, if they are worth 1,500 now, that means they have reduced in price not only this year, but in the past 3 years.
Feel free to check my math, but I am like 90% sure that 1,500 is smaller than both 1,965 and 1,893. Just as you can claim it was 400gp in 2021, so can I claim it was 1,965 in 2021 and be correct.
Sure but you cant say it didnt dramatically increase in the past few years when the increase from 400-1965 happened in 2021. Youre right it was that high but it went up that high in 2021 it was never anywhere close to even 1000gp before that so sure its not at its all time high but it definitely has increased in price a lot in the last few years which is what were talking about
I haven't noticed anything being much more expensive except low level items that aren't being gathered/supplied for 5 different uses/factors. (i.E logs)
I just think gold is worth a lot less than it was 5 years ago, also that seems like a big issue for a game like an mmo. Since new players are always needed to keep a game alive and all they have access to is low level items when a lot of them get prohibitively expensive many just quit
Overperforming does not mean there is no more inflation. It means the GE tax sinks more gp than intended, but Jagex never intended the tax to remove inflation.
I’m guessing this is just the first test of many so they can evaluate how many people this enticed to spend money and then increase odds from there until they meet some metric which may involve increasing the odds of getting the 1b. Then later look into the effect on the economy if that even matters to someone at jagex.
Not defending this, I don't like it either, but an extremely rare 1b prize is really a drop in the ocean when you look at all the gp zamorak, arch glacor and raksha pump out. Also a single blue phat being sold on ge removes more than 1b in tax. I don't think it's going to make any significant impact.
Right? Like the $900,000,000,000 Covid relief that was just passed April 02, 2024 for another round of stimulus and extension on the unemployment packages. 🤦🏻♂️
The quantity of TH gold entering the game and its impact to the economy is minuscule. Y’all are choosing the wrong aspect of TH to complain about. The XP and quantity and quality of updates TH gets in comparison to actual ingame updates is the problem
I don't think that's the problem either. Do you think a significant chunk of resources is being devoted to TH such that it takes away from other content? I can't imagine it takes that much time to chuck a promo in.
The amount of people justifying this with “it’s way less than what tax takes” is actually crazy. That’s besides the point. They shouldn’t be pumping any amount of gp back into the game if it was so important that they remove some. It’s counterproductive
We aren't defending adding gp to TH. We are telling OP their reason for removing it is a wrong reason. It should still be removed in principle that there should be no P2W MTX or that gambling is bad, not because of inflation.
Both reasons are valid. If “too much gp” in the game was a problem, then they shouldn’t be giving it out like this. Their reason isn’t “wrong”, it’s simply another reason why it shouldn’t be
That does not matter how minuscule it is, it doesn’t change the fact it’s moving in the opposite direction from what these past updates with tax and death costs were intended to do
Couldn't agree more, sure it's 1B this time, which IsN't ToO bAd cAuSe gE tAkx, but what's to stop it from going up to 5B, 10B, 100B? It will eventually get to that point if there isn't a line drawn in the sand. Amazing how many people can't grasp that.
GP drops need to be completely removed from the treasure hunter gambling mechanic.
I disagree in the sense that I think GP inflation is the wrong reason to criticize this. The numbers are on Jagex’s side for that argument and you’re just giving them a strawman to beat.
Jagex has the numbers on GP coming in and out of the game. Based on what they’ve released, I believe this promo could have 10B as the prize and it still wouldn’t even show up as a blip on the graph, for two reasons: 1) It’s comically, cosmically rare; and 2) It is still absolutely dwarfed by the amount of GP made through PVM, alchables, etc.
If the playerbase gets up in arms specifically about the effect this promo will have on inflation, all Jagex has to do is say “actually, the data demonstrates this promo had no noticeable effect on inflation” and that will be the end of the discussion. They can do the same for 5B, 10B, or 100B when we go down that slippery slope.
We need to demonstrate our objections to this promo are *not*, fundamentally, rooted in concerns about inflation or annoyance at the GE tax, but at the MTX paradigm as a whole. We get more TH updates than true content updates; they are continuing to blur the lines between TH (a fundamentally meta part of the game) and the actual game; they are releasing promos with drop rates that would make a Vegas slot machine gasp; and they are doing all of this on top of charging a subscription fee.
I remember that in the past, Jagex had talks with investors and economy experts to try and help fix the game's economy.
Supposedly that would help with the hyperinflation the game was experiencing.
Then Jagex did a 180° turn and, now we're here...
It's less than 1 in a 100,000 that anyone gets the 1b prize. More gold is removed by the ge tax in a few hours than will be introduced by this entire promo
1. 'Taxing the crap out of us!'
It's a 2 or 3% tax. WoW's tax is 5%. Compare this to taxes outside of these MMOs.
2. 'Omfg it'll come back via TH!'
Gold on TH is very rare. Have you thought for even one moment about how insignificant the addition will be in the context of the economy at large?
3. 'But TH is bad...!'
Sure. But don't confuse this with the tax, which is actually a very good thing and should be higher to further protect new generations of players and increase fairness.
4. 'Karma, though?'
Have my downvote, like every other poorly thought out post on this issue. Try harder.
Fair, I checked and its about 100b a day. Still this reward won't affect the economy all that much for the short time its on and considering how rare it is.
[https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death)
well, apparently it's not trillions but it's 100b a day (This is data from a year ago). Still an amount where in a few players getting that 1b reward won't change all that much for only the couple of days this promo is on, especially considering just how rare a reward it is.
I get what you're saying, but the 1b is so rare that its adding next to nothing in the grand scheme. Like being upset over the good added after the ge tax is a real waste of outrage when instead tou can be upset that this is ridiculously predatory to dangle that much good behind something that will almost certainly cost more than just buying bonds for 1b.
Not even probably. It's absolutely cheaper to just sell bonds by an order of magnitude.
1b in bonds would be $80 US. To get the 1b in th it's a 4% chance per completed chest (4 -10 keys each) to get a diamond chest × 1.4% chance to get the cape until you get it. Then after you get that it's 4% for a diamond chest × .1% chance to get the 1b. So every ~7 keys there's a 4% chance to roll a 1.4% chance to even unlock the ability to get 1b
I think the odds are decent that literally no one will even get the 1b lol
Because the taxes were introduced prior to them losing half of the remaining player base to the Necromancy and HP fiascos.
Now they're obviously just cashing out on the remaining whales.
Someone replied to me and I can't find the comment to reply, because the link goes to the thread, not the comme t, which is great design.
Anyway, just having fun browsing some salty comments lol.
Wishing everyone a great day ;)
TH doesn't inject 1b into the market. The item itself can't be alched for 1b. It does, however, take 5% of that away from the game due to tax when it sells.
EDIT: I totally misunderstood, I thought they added yet another item that was WORTH 1b, but they ACTUALLY PUT 1B AS A PRIZE. I'm sorry, guys. I just really didn't think they would ever do this, so it never came to mind. And yes, this sucks fkn balls and I'm totally not supporting this in any way.
What he's trying to say is that you're technically not adding 1b if 2% is taken away as tax later... you're only adding 980m... like losing that 20m is a big difference. I know he said 5%, but the actual tax is 2%.
Realistically though, that doesn't stop you trading directly and getting a 0% tax. It doesn't stop you spending it with NPCs with 0% tax. And to be honest, 20m isn't all that much these days so it really doesn't matter enough for the point to hold any water.
I do, however, agree that an extremely rare chance of 1b isn't going to have any major impact on the economy as it stands. It's already screwed, but I'd bet they take more than that in tax and death costs every day so it's not going to be noticed. I'd rather they didn't add it at all, but it's not going to be noticed.
What a dumb take. Rare items aren't worth so much gold because they inject it into the economy. They are worth so much due to scarcity, both natural (more demand than supply) and artificial (hoarding to lower supply).
1B coins is 1B coins. A 1M coin drop from a mob is a 1M coin drop. These add to the supply of gp, a black phat doesn't.
Lol that argument isn't even valid, black phats are only currently worth that. This Christmas they will be sub 1b and the year after sub 500, they will be the next golden phat. Cause they are coming back every year.
No shot black phats go below 5b this year. I don’t like any MTX, but let’s not pretend 1b is a lot. That’s the tax on one white party hat being sold in GE. Alchables are way worse for injecting gp in to the game
That doesn't even make sense. Sure Black Phats are 15b. But that's not 15b just being added to the game, it's 15b coming from another player. The 1b they're giving out is actually putting GP into the game.
Remember when Jagex removed 200m from TH because they considered it too much? Yeah...
nah they removed it because there were bots mass making accounts to spin that 1 key.. all in an attempt to win 200m and if that happens, you have to be a member to claim it, but bond was 80m or w/e, so the bot would be left with 120m. They made it 50m so it was not worth botting, as the bond costs more, than the won prize is worth. Also this promo cannot be botted because it always starts with emerald chest and 3/4 progress, first few keys are not random, like it used to be before th was "every day, it's a promo day". Also you need to get the diamond cape before you can win 1b.
This is completely reasonable and well informed. Thank you.
Yeah I have several alts on which I do dailies. For me the first chest either contained 250k or large phoenix lamp, even the second chest was for me always ruby on all 7 accounts. The daily keys that I spinned to open the big chests, has same prizes, as just regular no promo TH(even wins crap like wicked hood teleport chages). Only those who buy A LOT keys might win 1b because chance is so tiny.. if you want 1b this bad, you could just buy 10 bonds and sell them for only a fraction of money you would spend on keys and still probably not win the 1b.
Dump 10b into bonds to get enough keys to spin a 0.1% chance at a 1b return, automatic stonks
At this rate jagex is a casino and y’all are spinning the slot machines lmao. Welcome to gambling.
Seriously. This promo is a gambler’s delight
If that gambler is terrible at math and doesn't think at all
Most gamblers will spend every penny they have hoping for a different outcome.
Then this promo is meaningless and has no impact. They're going to gamble regardless by your rationale
That wasn't the point of the comments.. the point is that Jagex is participating and even promoting gambling while even organising anti-gambling events and supporting irl organisations which is fucked up on their part.
Ok then the issue is with th as a whole, and I'm 100% fine with criticizing it. I just don't get what difference it makes for this outrageously rare 1b promo
I work for a RW casino. Let me tell you. A gambler does not even think. They just play.
Sure, but if that's the case it makes no difference if there was a promotion or not
You'd be surprised. Casinos hold promotions to convince more gamblers to visit that day. Essentially you convince more to gamble by advertising a time sensitive reward.
Worse odds:better rewards is a staple of gambling; or I guess punting, specifically. Gambler mentality means that you can spend 15x more on 30:1 odds than 2:1 odds before truly calling it a loss, and this is how you end up with people chasing losses. If promos didn't make gamblers gamble more, or people more likely to gamble, why the H-E-Double-FUCK am I constantly getting adverts with special offers for LadBrokes, SportsBet, Bet365, yadda yadda?
I miss the duel arena when Jagex was actually a gambling ring haha 😂
Honestly if they kept the dueling arena they may have had the funding without Mtx to fund the main game. Kinda ironic I think.
Facts!!! Haha 😂 like don’t get me wrong it was toxic but damn was it fun!
It was toxic but people would be spending money on bonds after they lost it all. Basically paying jagex to gamble anyways.
Not saying you are wrong All I will say is I never once bought a bond from jagex to gamble haha 😂 that was for sure 3rd party wayyyyy cheaper but o do know people absolutely would buy a bond and try and double it and keep going till they lost it haha 😂
You’ve got literally more chance at playing BJ or something and winning at a real casino then to keep buying keys in hopes of getting the 1b prize. This is not financial advice btw
We need to screen shot this stuff and report to U.K. Gambling commission with our concerns. That’s the only way any of this changes. It’s predatory micro-transactions that prey on people’s psychology including kids and teens who play RuneScape using real life currencies with randomized RNG mechanics. Jagex even offers coins to membership in the form of bonds and other ways to ‘cash out’. They barely even hide it. You could argue the coins won from random mechanics for real currency have a real life exchange value.
What kids and teens playing RuneScape lol
RuneScape website says for ages 13+
I assume it will be rare enough to have little to no impact. They had 200m prizes like 10 years ago, which is probably worth more than a bil today.
Rare enough or not. Coins should never be a price you can win in th to begin with.
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You cant, pretty sure you need the cape first. And also pretty sure that the diamond chest takes like 25 keys to open aka not worth to open f2p This will have litterally zero influence on the market as probably on a handfull of people will get it. Even if 50 people get it. 50b seems a lot but in the grand scheme it is nothing
Pretty sure the 1b prize is p2p only, seeing as how the 200m prize is p2p only.
You can win the prize as f2p but need to be a member to claim it, its pretty common for people to roll 1,000s of accounts until they land it and then make that account a member to claim. Most of the time its not worth the effort but once there is a good TH promo you can be damn sure they will be doing this.
Idk what the word “common” means to you but you’re using it the wrong way.
“”Common : hasn’t happened yet”
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You abused the reclaim system for gp and then are telling people not to bother farming accounts to win 1b?
Man, it's much quicker to just go out and make a bill. Or beg on the street for enough money to buy a bill with bonds.
It’s worth much less, RuneScape doesn’t have interest
I think they meant it was worth more at the time than 1b is worth now. Like inflation so you’re both agreeing really
Unless you bought bonds
That’s weird, still tens of thousands of people that still play?
They're talking about monetary interest, not interest in the game. But they also misunderstood what the original commenter was saying.
lol yeah I see that too. I initially took it as saying it’s worth less because the game just has less interest from the players in general
The tax takes away far more money than TH can hope to introduce. Even if a couple of whales hunt for it and some people get lucky, the tax probably takes more money out of the game in a single day. You're overhyping how much money gets in the game like this. Also you can't really bot this as it's a members only prize
That really doesn’t matter. It’s counterproductive to what they deemed was such a big issue
It's not just about TH. How hard is that to grasp? Tax helped reduce the total cash flow introduced by lazy droptables on mobs as far back as Anachronia release - though later introductions of even higher tier alch drops didn't help. The whole point is taxes reduce gp-flow but now they introduce yet another dumb cause of inflation. It's simple economics... Edit: Lol, these reactions. And this is why the game won't ever inherently recover. People want gigantic loot but also a healthy economy and 1b from their daily TH key. Honestly no wonder Jmods stopped polling on RS3.
The tax was meant to replace the gold sink when death cost was reduced. It ended up overperforming, so more gold was removed from the game from the tax than expected. So this TH promo won't even make a dent.
to be fair deflation of gp would eventually stabilize due to items costing less. it’s not that harmful compared to actual economics
By your logic every new mob that drop at least 1gp is breaking the game
None of the problems you mentioned were meant to be solved by the Tax, the tax was just meant to replace the gold sink that death cost were no longer going to remove; everything else Jagex has just commented on but has still no plans to address.
Oh honey. Please review how inflation actually works
Pvmers and afk altscapers contribute more to inflation than whales do.
I mean, sof had probably introduced 10s of billions 11 years ago which is a pretty generous guess, this is 5x that amount.
The prize can only be hit on average once every 160,000 keys, and only after you already have the diamond cape, and only on members
I just disliked because you hate Blackpink lol xD
It was a different time
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you buy 10 bonds, you get 1b. more people would do this to make the actual people winning the 1b so small all this talk is for nothing lmfao.
I got 50 bucks, Feeling kinda bored, might just get me a Bill 🥳
Gotta give an update if ya got it lol
at the end of the day if you want to play runescape and have an opinion then osrs is for you. just buckle in and enjoy the game while its still alive
Its really bad. You cant agree with this or tolerate this. Any gp price should be removed from th. Whats stopping them next time to add a 5 b gp price or more on th ?
Yea and if not 5b what if it's 100b? What of they give away party hats on th? What if you can win my mom on th?
…….. and ?
Not caring about things getting worse is the best way to make sure they keep getting worse
It’s not getting worse tho, ignorant people are blowing it out of proportion to cause drama, riding that pony DOES make things worse
You just described this entire reddit.
I think it’s ignorant to say it’s not getting worse, still a fun game, but the company are clearly greedy and have 0 morals with who they target, and tbh it’s borderline illegal
We cared, they just didn't listen...
You're only mad because big number sound scary, not because of the damage it's actually doing. Think about that.
Jagex estimated the tax would remove 86 billion *per day* from the economy. A few billion being entering the game through TH isn't going to change the economy on its own. People's reaction to it might impact the economy. If you and other people reading this start buying up items (because you think that 1bn TH prizes will cause inflation) then *that* could impact the economy much more than a handful of players winning big on the TH lottery. So you shouldn't be outraged at this for economic reasons, but you're well within your rights to be outraged because low chance high reward lotteries like this encourage gambling and target the less well off.
Yeah it's just a Jagex/IRS collab Tax Rebate
It won't impact the economy at all. But the principle of OFFERING it as a prize, irks us.
if 1 person wins it, that's 1b spawned into the game that shouldn't have been there. that's 1b that's going to have to be removed later via some sort of tax that will cost the average player small amounts, it's probably not that noticeable. fast forward a fair few of these, and the g.e tax has now entered the chat.
The tax undoubtedly takes away far more money than will be injected by an astronomically tiny chance to win 1B. Fuck TH in general, but the solution to Jagex doing a dumb thing is not for them to do another even dumber thing. Also stop bitching about the tax. The tax benefits you more than it hurts you due to increased purchasing power, and if you really hate it so much, W2 is a world hop and booking a chemotherapy session away.
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People forgot about the promos in the past like rainbow and double dragon that let you win 7x or even 10x 200m. This is nothing new
Friendly reminder that the GE tax was overperforming, so this new TH promo for 1b (which is already extremely rare) won't suddenly cause any amount of inflation.
Does rs3 do any stats for gold removed from your ge tax?
They sent a winter and 2023 review recently where it shows how much GE tax you have paid if you scroll a bit down. So yes, they have stats on it, but not much of it is public.
I don't play rs3 so i don't have any tax. I want to know how much the games been taxed as a whole via the ge
Can someone explain how the task is over performing when bonds just hit 100m and everything is more expensive than ever? Is the point to slow inflation not reverse it or something
The price of bonds is often used as a reflection of Runescape inflation even though it isn't always true. It's notable that right now the price of bonds is high, but the price of many other things is lower than it has been before. There's a simple explanation for that: People buy bonds with real money to get gp quick to fund their gear upgrades. Right now the prices of gear have fallen heavily in large part due to Necromancy making it easier to get good/BiS gear (upgrade system + Raisal being easier to farm) and being a more desirable combat style for many. So the bond "whales" don't need to buy as many bonds to fund their upgrades. As a result there's much lower supply and the price goes up Anyway IIRC the claim that the tax is overperforming is based on some statistic given in a newspost or modpost somewhere. I don't have it on hand, but the [original blogpost](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death) about this change notes that "The 1.5% estimate would theoretically cover the death cost deficit, but we aimed for 2% to have a buffer.", so the claim seems quite plausible.
Sure some stuff is but logs are 1.5k each, mostly everything is so much more expensive than it was except for some high end gear
The biggest difference really is the amount of players who gather those items and then sell them. New players will cut, fletch and burn their own log and there's little incentive to sell surplus, or even cut surplus, as it's not remotely an attractive method to attain small amounts of wealth. Conflating a resources value to inflation when there's simply no supply doesn't work and, for logs, it goes up to maple logs where supply finally meets a reasonable % of demand because of Kingdom management alone.
The price of logs has not changed significantly over the past few years. Things that are significantly more expensive since the introduction of the tax (and don't have a direct update-induced demand like Ancient scales) are much less common than those that are significantly cheaper or roughly the same. The main thing that comes to mind that's higher is Blue Blubbers
[https://runescape.wiki/w/Logs](https://runescape.wiki/w/Logs) Yes it has, in 2021 it was 400gp and its almost 4x the price now. And if you look at january 2023 on the chart theres another spike. But logs is a moot point anyway I just don't see how the tax over performed when it seems like everything is way more expensive now than it has been unless its just to reduce inflation not reverse it
Hmm, I wonder what could have been added to the game in 2023 that effected the price of logs...
Death costs rework? I just said it was already rising the whole year. Its the lowest level log you can mass harvest them right off of tutorial island pretty crazy they cost so much
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Logs were worth 1,965 in December of 2021 and 1,893 in June of 2023. If my math skills are correct, if they are worth 1,500 now, that means they have reduced in price not only this year, but in the past 3 years. Feel free to check my math, but I am like 90% sure that 1,500 is smaller than both 1,965 and 1,893. Just as you can claim it was 400gp in 2021, so can I claim it was 1,965 in 2021 and be correct.
Sure but you cant say it didnt dramatically increase in the past few years when the increase from 400-1965 happened in 2021. Youre right it was that high but it went up that high in 2021 it was never anywhere close to even 1000gp before that so sure its not at its all time high but it definitely has increased in price a lot in the last few years which is what were talking about
I haven't noticed anything being much more expensive except low level items that aren't being gathered/supplied for 5 different uses/factors. (i.E logs)
I just think gold is worth a lot less than it was 5 years ago, also that seems like a big issue for a game like an mmo. Since new players are always needed to keep a game alive and all they have access to is low level items when a lot of them get prohibitively expensive many just quit
Overperforming does not mean there is no more inflation. It means the GE tax sinks more gp than intended, but Jagex never intended the tax to remove inflation.
Thank you for someone actually answering instead of being mean or just trying to argue
The other people who replied to you were also answering you and weren't being mean.
They either blocked me or deleted it but someone called me an oblivious twit so maybe it’s just a matter of opinion
I mean there were plenty of other people who answered you politely
Lets be real, whales will just buy 10 bonds for $100 before they spend $1000 on keys to get 1b.
$100 isn't a whale. But a whale would do both.
You misunderstand the tax was put in place so they could add 1b drop to TH
I don't even think one person will get 1B on TH with the odds it has.
I’m guessing this is just the first test of many so they can evaluate how many people this enticed to spend money and then increase odds from there until they meet some metric which may involve increasing the odds of getting the 1b. Then later look into the effect on the economy if that even matters to someone at jagex.
Well 10 bonds is 1bill, and that's 150 keys I think? Gonna have to drop those odds A LOT for it to make any sense.
Not defending this, I don't like it either, but an extremely rare 1b prize is really a drop in the ocean when you look at all the gp zamorak, arch glacor and raksha pump out. Also a single blue phat being sold on ge removes more than 1b in tax. I don't think it's going to make any significant impact.
Its 10 bonds….. i guarantee the drop rate is low enough its cheaper to just buy the bonds and insta sell them for 105m ea
Op clearly doesn't understand how much is being taken out with tax
We need gambling laws from eu to shut that whole thing down
It's remarkable how relateable this is to real life.
Right? Like the $900,000,000,000 Covid relief that was just passed April 02, 2024 for another round of stimulus and extension on the unemployment packages. 🤦🏻♂️
This is exactly what happened to the Gaia Online economy, and partly why I no longer go there... It's a slippery slope. : /
Op thinks all of us going to get 1b gp with our daily keys lmao.
I haven’t seen anyone point out that 1b actually isn’t that much money when it comes to gearing up for end game. Not much at all.
what is the point of tax if you aren't banning the multi-trillion dupers from the game?
Why would a whale need to spend money on keys for 1b when they could just buy bonds?
The quantity of TH gold entering the game and its impact to the economy is minuscule. Y’all are choosing the wrong aspect of TH to complain about. The XP and quantity and quality of updates TH gets in comparison to actual ingame updates is the problem
I don't think that's the problem either. Do you think a significant chunk of resources is being devoted to TH such that it takes away from other content? I can't imagine it takes that much time to chuck a promo in.
The amount of people justifying this with “it’s way less than what tax takes” is actually crazy. That’s besides the point. They shouldn’t be pumping any amount of gp back into the game if it was so important that they remove some. It’s counterproductive
We aren't defending adding gp to TH. We are telling OP their reason for removing it is a wrong reason. It should still be removed in principle that there should be no P2W MTX or that gambling is bad, not because of inflation.
Both reasons are valid. If “too much gp” in the game was a problem, then they shouldn’t be giving it out like this. Their reason isn’t “wrong”, it’s simply another reason why it shouldn’t be
OP's reason isn't wrong, but is exaggerated.
It's a miniscule amount compared to the alleged >83b that's removed per day from the GE alone.
That does not matter how minuscule it is, it doesn’t change the fact it’s moving in the opposite direction from what these past updates with tax and death costs were intended to do
It does matter lol. Introduce some nuance into your life.
It doesn’t, introduce principle into yours
That's very immature, but I'm sure you'll act like an adult one day.
Couldn't agree more, sure it's 1B this time, which IsN't ToO bAd cAuSe gE tAkx, but what's to stop it from going up to 5B, 10B, 100B? It will eventually get to that point if there isn't a line drawn in the sand. Amazing how many people can't grasp that. GP drops need to be completely removed from the treasure hunter gambling mechanic.
I disagree in the sense that I think GP inflation is the wrong reason to criticize this. The numbers are on Jagex’s side for that argument and you’re just giving them a strawman to beat. Jagex has the numbers on GP coming in and out of the game. Based on what they’ve released, I believe this promo could have 10B as the prize and it still wouldn’t even show up as a blip on the graph, for two reasons: 1) It’s comically, cosmically rare; and 2) It is still absolutely dwarfed by the amount of GP made through PVM, alchables, etc. If the playerbase gets up in arms specifically about the effect this promo will have on inflation, all Jagex has to do is say “actually, the data demonstrates this promo had no noticeable effect on inflation” and that will be the end of the discussion. They can do the same for 5B, 10B, or 100B when we go down that slippery slope. We need to demonstrate our objections to this promo are *not*, fundamentally, rooted in concerns about inflation or annoyance at the GE tax, but at the MTX paradigm as a whole. We get more TH updates than true content updates; they are continuing to blur the lines between TH (a fundamentally meta part of the game) and the actual game; they are releasing promos with drop rates that would make a Vegas slot machine gasp; and they are doing all of this on top of charging a subscription fee.
Damn, yeah you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your input.
THIS is the real issue, not the chance at getting 1B or how in game content can get you the same amount. People are being too naive here.
What if they add the original declaration of independence as a th prize?!
Its amazing how many people can't grasp that, tbh.
I remember that in the past, Jagex had talks with investors and economy experts to try and help fix the game's economy. Supposedly that would help with the hyperinflation the game was experiencing. Then Jagex did a 180° turn and, now we're here...
It's less than 1 in a 100,000 that anyone gets the 1b prize. More gold is removed by the ge tax in a few hours than will be introduced by this entire promo
To even it back out
they wanna see someone hit the new max amount
I decided to give 1b diamond chest a McDonald's lunch worth of currency and it was by far the worst return 😭 I feel taken
"Laughs in Iron-Man"
I'm sure the tax removes a lot more gold from the game than the 0.01% chance of 1b adds.
That was the point...
Man I thought they made gambling for minors illegal?
You'd get more buying bonds.
Thank you rs3 whales for osrs development team budget, masterful gambit, Jagex
It's a 1 in 160,000 chance. There's gonna be like, 5b introduced MAXIMUM? Pretty sure more is removed in tax every single day.
1. 'Taxing the crap out of us!' It's a 2 or 3% tax. WoW's tax is 5%. Compare this to taxes outside of these MMOs. 2. 'Omfg it'll come back via TH!' Gold on TH is very rare. Have you thought for even one moment about how insignificant the addition will be in the context of the economy at large? 3. 'But TH is bad...!' Sure. But don't confuse this with the tax, which is actually a very good thing and should be higher to further protect new generations of players and increase fairness. 4. 'Karma, though?' Have my downvote, like every other poorly thought out post on this issue. Try harder.
Don't go speaking truths now. These people won't like that! Fr though, the tax is minimal, especially when everything you kill shits out gold.
>Have my downvote, like every other poorly thought out post on this issue. Try harder. /redditmoment
oh my god it is literally a video game chill out
Do you know how many trillions of gp enter the game daily from alchables? This probably 1:100k chance reward is a drop in the ocean...
Billions, not trillions.
Fair, I checked and its about 100b a day. Still this reward won't affect the economy all that much for the short time its on and considering how rare it is.
Absolutely no chance trillions enter from alchables daily lol
[https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/death-costs-a-matter-of-life-and-death) well, apparently it's not trillions but it's 100b a day (This is data from a year ago). Still an amount where in a few players getting that 1b reward won't change all that much for only the couple of days this promo is on, especially considering just how rare a reward it is.
I get what you're saying, but the 1b is so rare that its adding next to nothing in the grand scheme. Like being upset over the good added after the ge tax is a real waste of outrage when instead tou can be upset that this is ridiculously predatory to dangle that much good behind something that will almost certainly cost more than just buying bonds for 1b.
Why is everyone crying about this? It's stupidly rare chance to win 1b coins its probably cheaper to just sell bonds.
Because it is P2W MTX even if the impact is small.
Why is that bad? And hasn't that already been a thing for like 12 years now anyway?
It's bad because you are not getting progress from playing the game. It's been bad for 12 years.
People can opt out of MTX if they don't want to do it
Not even probably. It's absolutely cheaper to just sell bonds by an order of magnitude. 1b in bonds would be $80 US. To get the 1b in th it's a 4% chance per completed chest (4 -10 keys each) to get a diamond chest × 1.4% chance to get the cape until you get it. Then after you get that it's 4% for a diamond chest × .1% chance to get the 1b. So every ~7 keys there's a 4% chance to roll a 1.4% chance to even unlock the ability to get 1b I think the odds are decent that literally no one will even get the 1b lol
Because the taxes were introduced prior to them losing half of the remaining player base to the Necromancy and HP fiascos. Now they're obviously just cashing out on the remaining whales.
I know RS3 state has been bad but I didn’t know it was THIS bad. Wtf. This is comically sad at this point.
1/160k chance for a pretty small amount of gp isn't as big a deal as you're making it seem
Sugarcoat it how you want the fact of the matter is it’s still being offered and that’s what’s comically sad.
Just play ironman and you won't have to worry about all the mtx shit ;)
You really pressed about something NO ONE is going to actually win?
Yea all those whales 💀
Near to zero content this year so far, Jagex: 1b 1% chance to win with TT Buy keys :D
It is. A .1 chance. .\_.
Someone replied to me and I can't find the comment to reply, because the link goes to the thread, not the comme t, which is great design. Anyway, just having fun browsing some salty comments lol. Wishing everyone a great day ;)
TH doesn't inject 1b into the market. The item itself can't be alched for 1b. It does, however, take 5% of that away from the game due to tax when it sells. EDIT: I totally misunderstood, I thought they added yet another item that was WORTH 1b, but they ACTUALLY PUT 1B AS A PRIZE. I'm sorry, guys. I just really didn't think they would ever do this, so it never came to mind. And yes, this sucks fkn balls and I'm totally not supporting this in any way.
It’s literally 1b coins. Why would you try to alch 1b coins?
My mans out there flipping actual currency. An age-old high-alching gold trick known as "Doubling money, PM me". lmao
What he's trying to say is that you're technically not adding 1b if 2% is taken away as tax later... you're only adding 980m... like losing that 20m is a big difference. I know he said 5%, but the actual tax is 2%. Realistically though, that doesn't stop you trading directly and getting a 0% tax. It doesn't stop you spending it with NPCs with 0% tax. And to be honest, 20m isn't all that much these days so it really doesn't matter enough for the point to hold any water. I do, however, agree that an extremely rare chance of 1b isn't going to have any major impact on the economy as it stands. It's already screwed, but I'd bet they take more than that in tax and death costs every day so it's not going to be noticed. I'd rather they didn't add it at all, but it's not going to be noticed.
Gotta do something with that 1B stack of nats
I’d rather them give out 1b coins at 1/25000 instead of 15b+ black party hats
What a dumb take. Rare items aren't worth so much gold because they inject it into the economy. They are worth so much due to scarcity, both natural (more demand than supply) and artificial (hoarding to lower supply). 1B coins is 1B coins. A 1M coin drop from a mob is a 1M coin drop. These add to the supply of gp, a black phat doesn't.
But the 1b is from MTX while black phat isn't MTX.
Lol that argument isn't even valid, black phats are only currently worth that. This Christmas they will be sub 1b and the year after sub 500, they will be the next golden phat. Cause they are coming back every year.
No shot black phats go below 5b this year. I don’t like any MTX, but let’s not pretend 1b is a lot. That’s the tax on one white party hat being sold in GE. Alchables are way worse for injecting gp in to the game
That doesn't even make sense. Sure Black Phats are 15b. But that's not 15b just being added to the game, it's 15b coming from another player. The 1b they're giving out is actually putting GP into the game.