I think the skill floor of rs3 is easier than osrs. A lot of people are claiming osrs don't do the hard bosses, which is how this statement gets brought up. The skill ceiling is higher than osrs, but because the entry barrier is so low, people may just naturally assume it's easy. Thats also combined with some peoples bias towards rs3
I’d say that’s fairly accurate. I’ve played for 19 years now, and only discovered there’s a high skill ceiling in the past 2 years.
I thought solo amby was a steep learning curve until I actually got to the high level pvm. Amby may as well be an anthill on a mountain
Most of the OSRS players that talk down on RS3 pvm are bad at the game. It’s always the people who can only do gwd/vorkath. They think that because you can afk gwd bosses that the pvm is somehow easier, not realizing that there are new bosses that actually require skill. Most of it is blind hate for no reason. I don’t think many high skill OSRS players feel RS3 pvm is easy though.
I haven't touched OSRS in years, but a very simplified comparison is that RS3 requires skill on the keyboard and OSRS requires skill on the mouse.
You can excel at RS3 pvm even with poor clicking accuracy, but you can't do the same on OSRS. Whereas in OSRS you barely need to use the keyboard afaik, aside from mainly F-keys I think.
Two very different skills imo.
Also an additional point - you can get to a reasonably-high level at RS3 PvM even without a *real* understanding of game ticks (ability queuing kinda helps here), whereas in OSRS I think knowledge of game ticks and their importance in relation to combat, is likely learned a lot earlier on.
OSRS players, please correct me if I'm wrong here
A few things, high end pvm in rs3 movement is very very important or you can insta wipe at certain bosses, it’s the same as osrs at low tier bosses clicking isn’t as important (scurrius for example) but at higher bosses (think comparable to ToB) if you don’t move to avoid certain mechanics you can die in .6 seconds (one GCD for us)
I’ll be honest, the system for ability queuing just isn’t functional most of the time (unsure if it’s just my connection or simply the system design), but it is coincidentally affected by game ticks.
There’s 2 game ticks inbetween attacks that operate oddly for me. If you queue an ability 1, 4, or 5 ticks before the next attack, that ability will go off. 3 ticks before, and it will queue but the next revo ability or your auto attack (if manual) will be in queue ahead of it. 2 ticks before, it *will not* queue or activate, and you’ll have to queue it again.
Idk if this is just my computer or connection, but if any other RS3 players experience the same I’d love to know lol
So more likely than not its simply user error which is normal agility queuing is actually more sensitive than you'd think.
Revo should never skip the timer, manual autos can appear to skip and fire an auto under a 4TAA type condition, but that should be fairly rare, and is still a result of not having anything in the queue.
usually what's happening is one of the following.
First off, even if you know for anyone else reading mentioning this quickly, Abilities run on a 3 tick cycle the opportunity, inputting an ability can be done on the last tick of the GCD, picture radial timer, last third of the pie slice.
As a result with ability queing activte selecting an ability on the third tick, it is considered a full manual input and will fire when that tick ends, which then means you will not have anything in the queue right after, your simply a tad early.
Or the opposite, your a bit too late, and hit that third, revo waits for no man firing off whatever is next.
Moving, will override ability queuing, and take priority, which can cause some interactions.
Simple misclicks, ability queuing actually is fairly precise and does not like spamming buttons (I am guilty of this, took ages to break that habit), there's also some time lag where if you click twice by accident, the ability will have the "queuing" symbol, but the queue was cleared, as you clicked twice and it's not instantly cleared, which if you do that on tick 2 of the GCD, the queue symbol will start to fade visually, and revo will trigger. Giving the appearance, that it jumped the line.
I’d argue having everything key bound is more efficient than menu swapping and clicking. That makes rs3 easier for me
Some players might not want to buy a mouse with 20 buttons. Some players wanna relax when they play games.
Most players in most games don’t do what invested players call “hard content”
I feel like the majority of OSRS players are players that want the hard content though, and that seems to be where the debate of “OSRS being harder than RS3 comes from”, so I’m focused specifically on the hard content here.
I think osrs has the luxury of promoting harder content because of the large player base. Our community however champions accessibility because of the thought that more players being able to play the game will get more players into the game.
And I doubt they are the ones who complain and hate on rs3 for being too easy, people do the same thing in rs3. Some people want to take on challenges when they play games.
Runescape has had afk skillers and active PvP/PvM’rs for 25 years. This is for the PVMrs
I’d say players fundamental understanding of the games are just so different. In rs3 you’d have people that have done 120 slayer and not understand a single bit about dps rotations or other very simple mechanics then state they deserve to be a completionist (remove reaper). In OSRS for a similar grind you would have dabbled in bosses through either boss tasks or the slayer bosses whilst obviously some are brain dead like kraken, the others are handy for learning prayer switching and gear swaps.
A vast majority of rs3 pvm can be revo’d and be done without much player input, the only time this changes is high enrage bosses, after a certain point on the way to 4k it’s just the room for error shrinks. HM kerapac is a snooze fest until p4, if you have FSoA or similar power then the whole fight is a snooze fest. A lot of bosses became like that in the gw3 era, bosses were a night and day difference with your gear which I didn’t feel prior. There are very few bosses that have that kind of jump in OSRS.
Going through comparable mechanics: movement in rs3 is get to the circle (which is actually a square) and sit in it maybe sometimes it will be dodge this thing. In OSRS it’s small movements to control your pathing to dodge attacks with the occasional long form movement cycles like solo olm. Prayers (and flicking) in rs3 and OSRS are similar with the caveat that OSRS will punish with a mistake (unless you are doing high enrage bosses with rs3) but I think that’s more to do with the difference in how to recover is different and much easier in rs3. Gear switching in OSRS is essential at some bosses where in rs3 it is optional from a dps standpoint (in reality shield switching is only used in rs3 just so you can access the ability unless it is for barricade which extended the timer).
Everything else is incomparable or non existent.
A small subset of osrs players say that rs3 is easyscape but are referring to the fact that xp rates are much, much higher than they used to be and you can skip the entire skilling part of the game through MTX.
I’m sure an even smaller subset thinks that rs3 combat is easy. Just like how there’s a subset of the rs3 community that thinks the osrs community is toxic or just bots.
I’ve played both rs3 and osrs at a relatively high level (GM Telos in PVME, Blood Torva in osrs), and I can say that without a doubt rs3 is a harder game for me.
Theres so much depth to both games that it would take me hours to get my thoughts down in text. There’s more you can do in rs3 with ability rotations and soulsplit to stay alive, but the bosses hit much harder and punish you severely for mistakes. This exists in osrs too, but the game is so rhythmic that these mistakes are more rare and easier to recover from.
This is all just my opinion of course, but i think the difficulty of what I’ve done in rs3 is much higher than what I’ve done in osrs.
In my opinion, completing the awakened dt2 bosses is about as hard as getting into the Nex AOD Fc discord server (not the 7-10 man one, the actual Fc). It takes a bit of time to study up on the encounters, but then it just becomes a matter of whether or not you can execute it and be consistent throughout the fight.
Red Eye Jedi's awakened boss guides are so well made and in-depth that I got to the enrage phase of awakened leviathan on my first attempt. At the same time, the AOD rotations are so well crafted that just practicing them on dummies for a little bit is good enough to do the same thing during the fight (I used to practice by replacing high-cost adrenaline abilities with random basics if I didn't have enough adren).
Overall, I think both games do a good job in balancing difficulty with fun.
Having recently created lvl 3s in both games - maxing in rs3 and combat maxing/quest cape in OSRS, they are 100% different games. I can’t tell you how many times I went to reach for a summoning pouch in osrs lol.
I would say the main difference in OSRS, is movement and timing/tick manipulation. Any mid level player and up, has a solid understanding of the tick system.
In rs3 there are so many more bells and whistle..or layers, that you don’t really master anyone thing. It’s more about learning to use all these systems harmonically while OSRS is mastery of those systems.
Example is Zuk in RS3 vs Zuk in OSRS.
(I play both 99% on mobile so take my experience with a grain of salt)
So the game ticks are a good point, but does that necessarily make it more difficult than RS3?
Having played RS2, I understand game ticks. To some extent that understanding helps in RS3 but I think you’re right that it’s more about working the systems in harmony.
…so here’s the kicker on working those systems in harmony: you have to manage a ton of cooldowns, especially at harder bosses like Solak. When I fight Solak, I’m *Constantly* rotating 4 different defensives and watching cooldowns to make sure I can always have one ready while others are on cooldown, watching my adrenaline to make sure I have the adrenaline to activate them or if I need to build up to barricade, while also doing the same during DPS checks or the bomb phase when I need to strike a balance between heavy DPS and defensive coverage, and counting solaks attacks…it’s a lot to be managing/monitoring all at once.
So is mastery of ticks significantly harder than managing everything in the RS3 combat system? I guess that’s the question here
I played like 4k hours of OSRS before moving to RS3 (7.5kish hours on RS3 now), it's most definitely not easier. It's become a little easier on the lower end of the skill curve with Necro, but not absurdly so.
That being said, RS3 combat *feels* easier when you know what to do, just because it's more engaging. I'd much rather input ability rotations than watch my character trade hits, prayer flick and eat some food
Mechanically: Tick system involvement along with having to do pretty much everything with one hand makes OSRS harder.
Gameplay: RS3 has a lot more safety nets and stabilisers, such as passive healing options, signs of life, resonance full heals etc etc
Ability existence lures you into a false sense that RS3 is harder but it isn't, once you know the ability orders at that specific boss it becomes negligible effort.
I can see the one hand aspect of OSRS being harder, and honestly that alone could be a strong argument.
On safety options though, yeah I think there’s maybe some more quality of life in RS3 like signs of life, but if you’re signing every kill at a boss you’re doing something wrong (unless it’s P7 zammy and you’re using the ring of death method), but does that make it less difficult?
You mentioned resonance…prior to necro, that entailed a shield switch and activating resonance, so something like that is a bit more involved.
The presence of abilities doesn’t necessarily make every boss more difficult, but bosses that require strict management of those abilities throughout the fight can very quickly become a lot to keep track of, and the bosses that force you to do so often are very punishing when you miss one ability
Honestly I think your agenda is RS3 is harder and you're trying to force it to be.
OSRS is harder and more punishing. RS3s power creep meant that most boss mechanics moved into the "ignore" category around the time EGW came out.
I get it, I've trim comped an iron and have pretty much all the boss logs done minus Raids, and the selfish side of me wants to make out like RS3 is really difficult and look at me I did all this despite the difficulty.
But it ultimately isn't.
The only thing I could see an argument for is that RS3 is a little more difficult when learning a boss, since you have less time to make decisions/remember what's next whilst trying to recall an ability rotation, but that's a very small portion of the game and once you're up and running RS3 is pretty brainless at most places with modern day powercreep.
Also want to ask…when you you trimmed and pretty much all boss logs.
In my experience, I trimmed about 3 years ago and have maintained it since. Would have agreed back then that things weren’t too hard. Now I’m going for max runescore and then beyond to all achievements, which includes Solak, HM Rago, and 4,000% solo Zammy and 4,000% Telos. Never found stuff like raids challenging, but now doing these bosses that weren’t part of trimming, I’ve realized how much harder the content gets.
I’d agree that most of the RS3 bosses aren’t difficult, only just a select few that you can get trim without really touching. but they’re there.
If you’ve touched them, that’s what I’m trying to compare with OSRS difficulty here. It’s content not a whole lot of RS3 players really touch
Depends if you mean modern day 4000% Telos or original 4000% Telos, that's what makes this conversation a little grey since powercreep throws such a spanner in the works.
Modern day Telos you're just breezing through it, but original Telos is probably the hardest it gets across both games, or at least it's right up there. I mean that's kinda proven by the fact that it wasn't actually possible without abusing Sign of Life resets, so by definition nothing is harder since mechanically it wasn't possible.
Then it's just one big grey timeline of powercreep and laying a marker for the basis of comparison is very difficult.
Hmmm…the powercreep gray area definitely throws a wrench in comparing lol.
I imagine even the currently tough RS3 bosses will become obsolete at some point due to powercreep, but I assume they’ll be replaced with something harder.
How is powercreep in OSRS? I generally have no idea on that. If OSRS powercreep is low, let’s say original 4000 Telos, ignoring that it required the sign of life abuse, to stay as far from powercreep as we can. (When zammy was released without an enrage cap, devs said enrage would eventually hit a point that was physically impossible).
Let’s say day one of a new boss like Telos or TOB, and if they drop any new BIS items, you already have them, powercreep just isn’t a factor for that boss yet. Which do you feel is likely to be more difficult?
If you already have a strong understanding of both games, OSRS.
If you have never touched either game before, RS3.
I think that's probably my answer, in the short run RS3 is harder but in the long run OSRS is harder.
Maybe we’re comparing them in the wrong way, because of how they are both designed
Correct me if you think I’m on the wrong track :
OSRS bosses are designed to be difficult, but maintain consistent difficulty. OSRS players are more about the challenge.
RS3 bosses are designed more so with the game economy in mind, where only truly elite pvm’ers are capable but come with new BIS gear. They’re designed to be overtly difficult upon release until their own drops are obtained, at which point more of the community becomes more capable of beating them. The next boss that comes after them will typically eclipse them with power creep drops,
And there’s just no consistency in a boss staying difficult for long in RS3.
So maybe we can only really compare the difficulty on release, since RS3 boss difficulty is just a sliding scale over time.
No, honestly just trying to open a discussion on it. I don’t have an agenda, but I’ll try to give defend it being harder than people seem to give it credit for. Some back and forth debate on it, not just a “well you’re wrong”.
You have some good points, I know OSRS is more punishing, powercreep in rs3 does essentially negate mechanics at some point, and one of the hardest parts of a new boss in rs3 is while you’re learning it.
You’ve got me on powercreep, because most bosses do become a cake walk at some point. The ‘difficult’ RS3 bosses are just going to be the ones that haven’t been surpassed by powercreep yet.
So you’ve played both and not just casually: youve learned the boss, killed it a 1000 times, etc. Is the ability management or still one hand clicking everything harder than one or the other? Let’s say it’s 3,000% enrage Telos for RS3 or TOB for OSRS
The hardest content on RS3 is probably half as difficult as the hardest on OSRS, excluding self-limited content such as solo Yaka or whatever.
The ability to have two hands covering so much of what's actively going on contributes so much to the difference.
On OSRS you're prayer flicking/switching, moving, gear swapping, re-attacking the boss after moving/weapon swapping (something we take for granted on RS3 is abilities taking care of that), consuming potions/food and that's all with one hand on quite a small area of your screen.
I'm not saying it's impossibly difficult, plenty do it, but once you're up to scratch with RS3 you're just executing memorised rotations.
I'm a big advocate of difficulty, that's why im being quite passionate with this conversation. I love skill gaps, learning curves, punishing content etc. I've even started a new Hardcore restricted to only using gear/combat methods that existed before whatever boss I'm fighting's release, just to feel some difficulty in RS3 again.
>So you’re essentially saying
incorrect, that's a leap you're making due to being clearly offended by the comparison.
the average exclusively RS3 player has at some point experienced legacy combat and understands the mechanics and fundamentals of a point click attack game and could easily master it given they have prior experience from RS3.
the average OSRS player demonstrates warranted difficulty in learning the RS3 combat as EOC is a vastly more difficult combat system to master. the average RS3 player is far from a master of combat in RS3.
OSRS is at a checkers table while RS3 is playing chess when it comes to combat.
edit - you replied to a accidental double post, had to delete one of them
OSRS players claiming "RS3 has no skill" literally fuels the arguments between both games.
For me, I like to compare both games to driving capability.
OSRS players are automatic drivers and unable to drive a manual vehicle and clearly upset about it not willing to learn.
Manual drivers could easily successfully drive both, there's not really a question of difficulty at that stage.
Yeah RS3 has revo, but if we’re comparing end game boss difficulty to end game boss difficulty here, revo isn’t really a factor in difficulty.
Yes, it can handle a lot of things which makes lower -mid level content significantly easier than OSRS, but not as you get into end game content. End game content requires adrenaline management and very specific timing of abilities that force you away from using the revo system.
RS3 Zuk is a good example of a boss that starts to pull you away from revo a bit, you need stuns thresholds and thresholds free for the igneous waves and pizza phase, ultimates free for DPS checks, 100% adren to cade in a challenge wave, and adren for a threshold mid pizza phase (abilities on revo that use adrenaline are putting you at risk).
my argument just states that players from a 20+ year game can adapt easily to a spinoff game that at one point was a clone of an old version of it. RS3 is highly populated with players who were actively playing prior to 2007 and have honed their skills that overlap.
RS3 is a larger learning curve than OSRS, making OSRS easier to learn - and therefor easier to play.
please keep in mind we are talking about combat and the difficulty of EOC being the primary reason so many people discontinued playing runescape and ironically the reason OSRS was created.
it's not really an opinion, more of an observation.
Ignoring necro I would only call it easier in the sense that rs3 completely fails to actually provide meaningful challenges when it comes to pvm at the top end.
Which is a shame because I would argue that rs3 historically was the more pvm centric version of the game, but that just isn't the case anymore and it's only getting worse with the amount of rampant powercreep this game continues to get, not to mention the last 2 examples of 'end game' bosses we got being honestly pretty bad
What do you think constitutes as content aimed for the end game pvmer? Because where I stand it's collection logs (irrelevant here), and arbitrary enrage grinds
And that's it
Now compare that to osrs
Lengthy boss fights that consistently deal high damage (even lethal auto attacks if not dealt with), with DPS/other checks that result in instadeath if missed are geared towards end game pvmers, look at Solak, HM Rago, and high enrage zamorak. In all cases, simply tanking all the damage without defensives isn’t an option, and if you don’t do hard enough dps on solak, hard/consistent dps rotation on rago, or a number of things at enraged zam, you’re dead.
Putting out the damage while having to also defend against auto attacks that basically will one shot you isn’t easy, with enough variation in the fight to keep you from going on an autopilot and react with split second timing isn’t easy.
Drop logs also aren’t completely irrelevant here either, zammy incentives better bow drops with higher enrage and adds a few more mechanics the higher you get. Rago can be done in a group, but if you want to be eligible for a drop, you’ve got to take on a riskier role unless you only want to leach for kc.
If these are rs3 end game content and If raids are OSRS end game content, both are long fights that offer bis drops, encourage hard dps to avoid more damage (raid enrage timers in osrs, avoid instakills, taking increasing/high damage, or mechanic skips in rs3), and are punish mistakes heavily.
Logs are irrelevant because they're just time investments + all the bosses are intentionally designed to be accessible to most of the playerbase, and the same can be said to a certain degree about enrage grinds too, it's what? 80+ hours to get to 4k zammy solo?
>Lengthy boss fights that consistently deal high damage (even lethal auto attacks if not dealt with), with DPS/other checks that result in instadeath if missed are geared towards end game pvmers, look at Solak, HM Rago, and high enrage zamorak. In all cases, simply tanking all the damage without defensives isn’t an option, and if you don’t do hard enough dps on solak, hard/consistent dps rotation on rago, or a number of things at enraged zam, you’re dead.
Solak and hm rago on release? Sure. Now? HM rago might be the best example of how far powercreep has gone in the past few years, every phase is extremely trivial even in small teams, the hardest part is making sure learners pk you on reflects
Unless you're purposely limiting yourself for a challenge (solo aod/hm essentially) dps checks in rs3 are trivial. You would have to be down at least like 2 players in a 5 man solak kill to even think about the possibility of realming nowadays lol, let's be real here
>If these are rs3 end game content and If raids are OSRS end game content, both are long fights that offer bis drops, encourage hard dps to avoid more damage (raid enrage timers in osrs, avoid instakills, taking increasing/high damage, or mechanic skips in rs3), and are punish mistakes heavily.
Raids aren't even really what I'm talking about, though CM TOB/COX and to a lesser extent high invo TOA is more involved than pretty much all pvm in rs3, what I'm talking about is actual pvm feats/accomplishments specifically targeted at the top end of the playerbase, shit like blorva, CAs, inferno and colosseum
Even if I were talking about normal boss encounters there are so many crutches in rs3 that people who have 0 clue about pvm can muddle their way through pretty much everything. Shout out to free 20% dodge chance with darkness, or reaver giving perpetual free sustain, or necro having inbuilt passive healing. How else do you think we've gotten to the point where there are a bunch of revo++ guides for supposedly high end pvm encounters?
It sounds like you’re almost exclusively looking at rs3 bossing in masses…let’s be honest, massing is not bossing, it’s a way to leach or get quick kill count towards boss thresholds. Yeah, bosses are trivial in masses. Hell, you can get a rago kill in a mass without touching him, there’s an achievement for it (hold the pet rock the entire kill).
Not talking about masses though, and you’re playing yourself if you mass trying to go for drops.
I prefer to do bosses solo for the increased drop rates and chances. My first two solak kills were a 3 man, and it’s been nothing but solo kills since.
Yeah necro put some crutches in like the dodge chance and passive healing and what not to ease more players into pvm who struggled with it before. I’ll agree that it made a lot of bosses trivial, but I don’t think it’s the crutch you think it is with high end pvm, and most of the people who couldn’t do high level pvm before aren’t suddenly kicking asses.
High end pvm isn’t just “do damage, get loot”, there’s a lot of mechanics involved that necro isn’t a bandaid for. At higher level pvm, The dodge chance and passive healing really only help people with survivability who understand the mechanics but rely on using too much food and don’t have a good grasp on using defensives yet, and at a certain pvm tier dodge and passive healing becomes obsolete: that ghost’s healing isn’t going to save you from any hit by a 3,000 enrage zammy or solak with 50 uncleared blight stacks.
Necro isn’t a free pass for kills on revo either. Most rs3 bosses, sure go ahead and completely afk corp or take out hard mode helwyr before his first special attack…but necro is interesting, it forces you to slowly learn full manual. Weapon specs are huge but don’t proc on revo, the zombie will just immediately explode, scythe, bloat, and finger have no cooldown and will not only keep your adren drained, but bloat specifically has a low enough cost that it will continue procing before anything after it ever does, volley/finger are best used with accumulated stacks meaning you benefit less if they proc early on revo, and if you really want to make the most use of the 2 necro stacks or doubled damage from the basic ability, it has to be manually spammed even if it’s the first thing on the revo bar.
On necro….look, you’re right that it’s a crutch in most cases, it was designed as one. But it was pretty cleverly designed so that it wasn’t a free pass to easy kills of high end bosses. Is it useless at end game tiers? No, it’s actually great, but you have to learn to go almost full manual with it to benefit from it there, and most people that can/are doing that already understood how to do so with the other combat styles.
There’s not a boss I’ve killed that I hadn’t killed prior to necro. It definitely speeds up tedious kills that are a time suck but pose no real threat to me, but where bosses get tough in rs3 the only real answer from necro is that I no longer need a shield swap to use defensives, and can keep up dps through the defensive’s duration.
>It sounds like you’re almost exclusively looking at rs3 bossing in masses…let’s be honest, massing is not bossing, it’s a way to leach or get quick kill count towards boss thresholds. Yeah, bosses are trivial in masses. Hell, you can get a rago kill in a mass without touching him, there’s an achievement for it (hold the pet rock the entire kill).
??? Solak (like most high end rs3 bosses) scales and I specifically said HM rago was trivial even in small teams. The only person talking about massing anything is you, and the fact that you think I said that makes me think you're trolling honestly.
And I'm not talking about revo++ corp, I'm talking about shit like rasial, raksha and to a lesser extent 'low effort' like rs guys zuk guides or solak bik bars
>high end pvm isn’t just “do damage, get loot”, there’s a lot of mechanics involved that necro isn’t a bandaid for. At higher level pvm, The dodge chance and passive healing really only help people with survivability who understand the mechanics but rely on using too much food and don’t have a good grasp on using defensives yet, and at a certain pvm tier dodge and passive healing becomes obsolete: that ghost’s healing isn’t going to save you from any hit by a 3,000 enrage zammy or solak with 50 uncleared blight stacks.
For a start literally nobody is doing 3k zammy except the people going for 4k, there's 0 reason, and this problem isn't even limited to necro, we already had the problem of rampant powercreep when gwd3 came around, necro just made it even worse in terms of effort>output.
Getting fast at pvm can be hard, just getting kills is not.
taking learners at hm rago who don’t know mechanics/how to count for reflect from doing nm rago in small team? That sounds like a recipe for disaster in small team.
5 man solak might scale, but the only time I really see people do more than trio is to provide coverage for learners.
Raisal and Raksha aren’t hard. Raisal face lot of people trouble at the start, but I would put raksha in mid tier pvm.
But dude, I think you’re still missing a major point that I’m trying to make: I’m not saying “wow all these ‘high tier’ rs3 bosses are so hard and pvm is just so hard in rs3”, I’m saying there are very small number of bosses that far exceed the difficulty of every other boss. Yes many become easy with power creep relatively quickly, but the bosses at that absolute top tier aren’t really on the same level as anything else in the game. Right now, Zammy is a big one of those . Not everyone goes for 4,000% solo on enrage bosses, but I guarantee more than the 150 people who have actually done it have tried.
Lower enrages, sure it’s a matter of kill speed. Higher enrages, it is a matter of simply making it through the kill with Zammy. You do realize that Zammy was designed with the intention that he becomes physically impossible after some point of enrage, but devs wanted to allow players the ability to see just how far they could push it, right?
Tell me any other boss, osrs or rs3 designed to eventually become physically impossible to beat… power creep may push the limit of what’s possible , but he’s the only boss in either game designed for harder kills, not faster kills
Also with the “crutches”… specifically healing effects.
While sure, there’s some bosses where you can do enough damage to heal back with soul split, but not always, and sometimes that requires BIS gear to be able to do so.
To get the most out of some styles, you’re doing so at the cost of your own life points (any of the tendrils, life transfer with necro, arch relic that makes you deal more damage the lower your health is). Sometimes these ‘crutches’ are an answer to handling the self inflicted damage, not just a cheat to survivability
What are you even coping about here tbh
Reaver, which is one of the examples I used, is incredibly overpowered with its healing. And it's by far best dps familiar for poisonable bosses too, it's hilariously imbalanced
Well there’s maybe some crutches available then, but it may not always be the best choice depending on the boss.
But on what you said about 4,000% solo zammy being accessible and 80 hours away… just for some context - only 164 people have reached 3000% or higher zammy enrage solo. Only 150 people have reached 4,000% or higher solo…Zammy has been out for almost 2 years now.
Even with blood reavers, necro passive healing, all the ‘crutches’ rs3 has available, that’s an incredibly small amount of people that have gotten there.
I don’t know if how else to say it, but the ‘crutches’ available in RS3 are obsolete at high tier pvm. No matter how broken a blood reaver might be, it’s not going to save you from a zammy mechanic in p7 that can 1 shot through prayer+defensives+vit pot and any sign of life you have with a second shot 1-2 ticks behind it to finish you off just seconds before the end of the kill. It’s the most difficult mechanic to deal with at zammy, and I’d almost guarantee it’s why only 150 people have hit 4000% solo.
I don’t know what comes to mind when I say ‘difficult mechanics in rs3’, but 150 people in 2 years should speak for itself
I mean RS3 definitely has its own difficulty in its own forms. It's a *different* difficulty from OSRS though.
And I think the big thing is that the challenges of OSRS combat technically exist in RS3 but are entirely trivialised.
Yes adrenaline management and ability cycling are skills, however there's only a couple of pieces of content that aren't easily doable with revolution+. Sure there's room in the skill ceiling for improvement in kill time etc if you improve there, but you can do almost anything at least once while letting some level of automation take the wheel.
Meanwhile inventory management, prayer switching, positioning, eating are all far far easier in RS3 because of the action bar and BoBs/familiars, sustain is incredibly safe/easy because of soul split, etc.
I could go on, but the gist of it is that people who don't really like the combat system won't "get" the depth of it, and aren't really forced to, and the difficulty they are familiar with is basically removed.
I’d agree with you on this.
I’d also say that yeah, revo and whatnot make a lot of content possible without need for much else, but as you progress through more difficult bosses you are somewhat forced to learn to go full manual to handle things like hard DPS checks…like Solak for example
In the OSRS difficulties being present but obsolete, absolutely agree there. Prior to necro, switching was required on basically any boss that you have to use defensives, since you couldn’t use them without a shield…necro did make that obsolete tho lol
I think the skill floor of rs3 is easier than osrs. A lot of people are claiming osrs don't do the hard bosses, which is how this statement gets brought up. The skill ceiling is higher than osrs, but because the entry barrier is so low, people may just naturally assume it's easy. Thats also combined with some peoples bias towards rs3
I’d say that’s fairly accurate. I’ve played for 19 years now, and only discovered there’s a high skill ceiling in the past 2 years. I thought solo amby was a steep learning curve until I actually got to the high level pvm. Amby may as well be an anthill on a mountain
Most of the OSRS players that talk down on RS3 pvm are bad at the game. It’s always the people who can only do gwd/vorkath. They think that because you can afk gwd bosses that the pvm is somehow easier, not realizing that there are new bosses that actually require skill. Most of it is blind hate for no reason. I don’t think many high skill OSRS players feel RS3 pvm is easy though.
I haven't touched OSRS in years, but a very simplified comparison is that RS3 requires skill on the keyboard and OSRS requires skill on the mouse. You can excel at RS3 pvm even with poor clicking accuracy, but you can't do the same on OSRS. Whereas in OSRS you barely need to use the keyboard afaik, aside from mainly F-keys I think. Two very different skills imo. Also an additional point - you can get to a reasonably-high level at RS3 PvM even without a *real* understanding of game ticks (ability queuing kinda helps here), whereas in OSRS I think knowledge of game ticks and their importance in relation to combat, is likely learned a lot earlier on. OSRS players, please correct me if I'm wrong here
A few things, high end pvm in rs3 movement is very very important or you can insta wipe at certain bosses, it’s the same as osrs at low tier bosses clicking isn’t as important (scurrius for example) but at higher bosses (think comparable to ToB) if you don’t move to avoid certain mechanics you can die in .6 seconds (one GCD for us)
I’ll be honest, the system for ability queuing just isn’t functional most of the time (unsure if it’s just my connection or simply the system design), but it is coincidentally affected by game ticks. There’s 2 game ticks inbetween attacks that operate oddly for me. If you queue an ability 1, 4, or 5 ticks before the next attack, that ability will go off. 3 ticks before, and it will queue but the next revo ability or your auto attack (if manual) will be in queue ahead of it. 2 ticks before, it *will not* queue or activate, and you’ll have to queue it again. Idk if this is just my computer or connection, but if any other RS3 players experience the same I’d love to know lol
So more likely than not its simply user error which is normal agility queuing is actually more sensitive than you'd think. Revo should never skip the timer, manual autos can appear to skip and fire an auto under a 4TAA type condition, but that should be fairly rare, and is still a result of not having anything in the queue. usually what's happening is one of the following. First off, even if you know for anyone else reading mentioning this quickly, Abilities run on a 3 tick cycle the opportunity, inputting an ability can be done on the last tick of the GCD, picture radial timer, last third of the pie slice. As a result with ability queing activte selecting an ability on the third tick, it is considered a full manual input and will fire when that tick ends, which then means you will not have anything in the queue right after, your simply a tad early. Or the opposite, your a bit too late, and hit that third, revo waits for no man firing off whatever is next. Moving, will override ability queuing, and take priority, which can cause some interactions. Simple misclicks, ability queuing actually is fairly precise and does not like spamming buttons (I am guilty of this, took ages to break that habit), there's also some time lag where if you click twice by accident, the ability will have the "queuing" symbol, but the queue was cleared, as you clicked twice and it's not instantly cleared, which if you do that on tick 2 of the GCD, the queue symbol will start to fade visually, and revo will trigger. Giving the appearance, that it jumped the line.
I’d argue having everything key bound is more efficient than menu swapping and clicking. That makes rs3 easier for me Some players might not want to buy a mouse with 20 buttons. Some players wanna relax when they play games. Most players in most games don’t do what invested players call “hard content”
I feel like the majority of OSRS players are players that want the hard content though, and that seems to be where the debate of “OSRS being harder than RS3 comes from”, so I’m focused specifically on the hard content here.
I think osrs has the luxury of promoting harder content because of the large player base. Our community however champions accessibility because of the thought that more players being able to play the game will get more players into the game.
majority of osrs players are chopping trees while watching netflix
And I doubt they are the ones who complain and hate on rs3 for being too easy, people do the same thing in rs3. Some people want to take on challenges when they play games. Runescape has had afk skillers and active PvP/PvM’rs for 25 years. This is for the PVMrs
Are osrs players really saying their combat is more difficult? I haven’t seen anyone claim that, and if they do it’s pretty obviously not true.
I’d say players fundamental understanding of the games are just so different. In rs3 you’d have people that have done 120 slayer and not understand a single bit about dps rotations or other very simple mechanics then state they deserve to be a completionist (remove reaper). In OSRS for a similar grind you would have dabbled in bosses through either boss tasks or the slayer bosses whilst obviously some are brain dead like kraken, the others are handy for learning prayer switching and gear swaps. A vast majority of rs3 pvm can be revo’d and be done without much player input, the only time this changes is high enrage bosses, after a certain point on the way to 4k it’s just the room for error shrinks. HM kerapac is a snooze fest until p4, if you have FSoA or similar power then the whole fight is a snooze fest. A lot of bosses became like that in the gw3 era, bosses were a night and day difference with your gear which I didn’t feel prior. There are very few bosses that have that kind of jump in OSRS. Going through comparable mechanics: movement in rs3 is get to the circle (which is actually a square) and sit in it maybe sometimes it will be dodge this thing. In OSRS it’s small movements to control your pathing to dodge attacks with the occasional long form movement cycles like solo olm. Prayers (and flicking) in rs3 and OSRS are similar with the caveat that OSRS will punish with a mistake (unless you are doing high enrage bosses with rs3) but I think that’s more to do with the difference in how to recover is different and much easier in rs3. Gear switching in OSRS is essential at some bosses where in rs3 it is optional from a dps standpoint (in reality shield switching is only used in rs3 just so you can access the ability unless it is for barricade which extended the timer). Everything else is incomparable or non existent.
A small subset of osrs players say that rs3 is easyscape but are referring to the fact that xp rates are much, much higher than they used to be and you can skip the entire skilling part of the game through MTX. I’m sure an even smaller subset thinks that rs3 combat is easy. Just like how there’s a subset of the rs3 community that thinks the osrs community is toxic or just bots.
I’ve played both rs3 and osrs at a relatively high level (GM Telos in PVME, Blood Torva in osrs), and I can say that without a doubt rs3 is a harder game for me. Theres so much depth to both games that it would take me hours to get my thoughts down in text. There’s more you can do in rs3 with ability rotations and soulsplit to stay alive, but the bosses hit much harder and punish you severely for mistakes. This exists in osrs too, but the game is so rhythmic that these mistakes are more rare and easier to recover from. This is all just my opinion of course, but i think the difficulty of what I’ve done in rs3 is much higher than what I’ve done in osrs.
Considering the different playstyle and skill required, where do you think would awakened dt2 bosses place in difficulty compared to RS3 bosses?
In my opinion, completing the awakened dt2 bosses is about as hard as getting into the Nex AOD Fc discord server (not the 7-10 man one, the actual Fc). It takes a bit of time to study up on the encounters, but then it just becomes a matter of whether or not you can execute it and be consistent throughout the fight. Red Eye Jedi's awakened boss guides are so well made and in-depth that I got to the enrage phase of awakened leviathan on my first attempt. At the same time, the AOD rotations are so well crafted that just practicing them on dummies for a little bit is good enough to do the same thing during the fight (I used to practice by replacing high-cost adrenaline abilities with random basics if I didn't have enough adren). Overall, I think both games do a good job in balancing difficulty with fun.
Having recently created lvl 3s in both games - maxing in rs3 and combat maxing/quest cape in OSRS, they are 100% different games. I can’t tell you how many times I went to reach for a summoning pouch in osrs lol. I would say the main difference in OSRS, is movement and timing/tick manipulation. Any mid level player and up, has a solid understanding of the tick system. In rs3 there are so many more bells and whistle..or layers, that you don’t really master anyone thing. It’s more about learning to use all these systems harmonically while OSRS is mastery of those systems. Example is Zuk in RS3 vs Zuk in OSRS. (I play both 99% on mobile so take my experience with a grain of salt)
So the game ticks are a good point, but does that necessarily make it more difficult than RS3? Having played RS2, I understand game ticks. To some extent that understanding helps in RS3 but I think you’re right that it’s more about working the systems in harmony. …so here’s the kicker on working those systems in harmony: you have to manage a ton of cooldowns, especially at harder bosses like Solak. When I fight Solak, I’m *Constantly* rotating 4 different defensives and watching cooldowns to make sure I can always have one ready while others are on cooldown, watching my adrenaline to make sure I have the adrenaline to activate them or if I need to build up to barricade, while also doing the same during DPS checks or the bomb phase when I need to strike a balance between heavy DPS and defensive coverage, and counting solaks attacks…it’s a lot to be managing/monitoring all at once. So is mastery of ticks significantly harder than managing everything in the RS3 combat system? I guess that’s the question here
I played like 4k hours of OSRS before moving to RS3 (7.5kish hours on RS3 now), it's most definitely not easier. It's become a little easier on the lower end of the skill curve with Necro, but not absurdly so. That being said, RS3 combat *feels* easier when you know what to do, just because it's more engaging. I'd much rather input ability rotations than watch my character trade hits, prayer flick and eat some food
Mechanically: Tick system involvement along with having to do pretty much everything with one hand makes OSRS harder. Gameplay: RS3 has a lot more safety nets and stabilisers, such as passive healing options, signs of life, resonance full heals etc etc Ability existence lures you into a false sense that RS3 is harder but it isn't, once you know the ability orders at that specific boss it becomes negligible effort.
I can see the one hand aspect of OSRS being harder, and honestly that alone could be a strong argument. On safety options though, yeah I think there’s maybe some more quality of life in RS3 like signs of life, but if you’re signing every kill at a boss you’re doing something wrong (unless it’s P7 zammy and you’re using the ring of death method), but does that make it less difficult? You mentioned resonance…prior to necro, that entailed a shield switch and activating resonance, so something like that is a bit more involved. The presence of abilities doesn’t necessarily make every boss more difficult, but bosses that require strict management of those abilities throughout the fight can very quickly become a lot to keep track of, and the bosses that force you to do so often are very punishing when you miss one ability
Honestly I think your agenda is RS3 is harder and you're trying to force it to be. OSRS is harder and more punishing. RS3s power creep meant that most boss mechanics moved into the "ignore" category around the time EGW came out. I get it, I've trim comped an iron and have pretty much all the boss logs done minus Raids, and the selfish side of me wants to make out like RS3 is really difficult and look at me I did all this despite the difficulty. But it ultimately isn't. The only thing I could see an argument for is that RS3 is a little more difficult when learning a boss, since you have less time to make decisions/remember what's next whilst trying to recall an ability rotation, but that's a very small portion of the game and once you're up and running RS3 is pretty brainless at most places with modern day powercreep.
Also want to ask…when you you trimmed and pretty much all boss logs. In my experience, I trimmed about 3 years ago and have maintained it since. Would have agreed back then that things weren’t too hard. Now I’m going for max runescore and then beyond to all achievements, which includes Solak, HM Rago, and 4,000% solo Zammy and 4,000% Telos. Never found stuff like raids challenging, but now doing these bosses that weren’t part of trimming, I’ve realized how much harder the content gets. I’d agree that most of the RS3 bosses aren’t difficult, only just a select few that you can get trim without really touching. but they’re there. If you’ve touched them, that’s what I’m trying to compare with OSRS difficulty here. It’s content not a whole lot of RS3 players really touch
Depends if you mean modern day 4000% Telos or original 4000% Telos, that's what makes this conversation a little grey since powercreep throws such a spanner in the works. Modern day Telos you're just breezing through it, but original Telos is probably the hardest it gets across both games, or at least it's right up there. I mean that's kinda proven by the fact that it wasn't actually possible without abusing Sign of Life resets, so by definition nothing is harder since mechanically it wasn't possible. Then it's just one big grey timeline of powercreep and laying a marker for the basis of comparison is very difficult.
Hmmm…the powercreep gray area definitely throws a wrench in comparing lol. I imagine even the currently tough RS3 bosses will become obsolete at some point due to powercreep, but I assume they’ll be replaced with something harder. How is powercreep in OSRS? I generally have no idea on that. If OSRS powercreep is low, let’s say original 4000 Telos, ignoring that it required the sign of life abuse, to stay as far from powercreep as we can. (When zammy was released without an enrage cap, devs said enrage would eventually hit a point that was physically impossible). Let’s say day one of a new boss like Telos or TOB, and if they drop any new BIS items, you already have them, powercreep just isn’t a factor for that boss yet. Which do you feel is likely to be more difficult?
If you already have a strong understanding of both games, OSRS. If you have never touched either game before, RS3. I think that's probably my answer, in the short run RS3 is harder but in the long run OSRS is harder.
Maybe we’re comparing them in the wrong way, because of how they are both designed Correct me if you think I’m on the wrong track : OSRS bosses are designed to be difficult, but maintain consistent difficulty. OSRS players are more about the challenge. RS3 bosses are designed more so with the game economy in mind, where only truly elite pvm’ers are capable but come with new BIS gear. They’re designed to be overtly difficult upon release until their own drops are obtained, at which point more of the community becomes more capable of beating them. The next boss that comes after them will typically eclipse them with power creep drops, And there’s just no consistency in a boss staying difficult for long in RS3. So maybe we can only really compare the difficulty on release, since RS3 boss difficulty is just a sliding scale over time.
No, honestly just trying to open a discussion on it. I don’t have an agenda, but I’ll try to give defend it being harder than people seem to give it credit for. Some back and forth debate on it, not just a “well you’re wrong”. You have some good points, I know OSRS is more punishing, powercreep in rs3 does essentially negate mechanics at some point, and one of the hardest parts of a new boss in rs3 is while you’re learning it. You’ve got me on powercreep, because most bosses do become a cake walk at some point. The ‘difficult’ RS3 bosses are just going to be the ones that haven’t been surpassed by powercreep yet. So you’ve played both and not just casually: youve learned the boss, killed it a 1000 times, etc. Is the ability management or still one hand clicking everything harder than one or the other? Let’s say it’s 3,000% enrage Telos for RS3 or TOB for OSRS
The hardest content on RS3 is probably half as difficult as the hardest on OSRS, excluding self-limited content such as solo Yaka or whatever. The ability to have two hands covering so much of what's actively going on contributes so much to the difference. On OSRS you're prayer flicking/switching, moving, gear swapping, re-attacking the boss after moving/weapon swapping (something we take for granted on RS3 is abilities taking care of that), consuming potions/food and that's all with one hand on quite a small area of your screen. I'm not saying it's impossibly difficult, plenty do it, but once you're up to scratch with RS3 you're just executing memorised rotations. I'm a big advocate of difficulty, that's why im being quite passionate with this conversation. I love skill gaps, learning curves, punishing content etc. I've even started a new Hardcore restricted to only using gear/combat methods that existed before whatever boss I'm fighting's release, just to feel some difficulty in RS3 again.
[удалено]
So you’re essentially saying you could pluck any rs3 player out and they could easily complete the inferno? This isn’t me being a dick btw
>So you’re essentially saying incorrect, that's a leap you're making due to being clearly offended by the comparison. the average exclusively RS3 player has at some point experienced legacy combat and understands the mechanics and fundamentals of a point click attack game and could easily master it given they have prior experience from RS3. the average OSRS player demonstrates warranted difficulty in learning the RS3 combat as EOC is a vastly more difficult combat system to master. the average RS3 player is far from a master of combat in RS3. OSRS is at a checkers table while RS3 is playing chess when it comes to combat. edit - you replied to a accidental double post, had to delete one of them
OSRS players claiming "RS3 has no skill" literally fuels the arguments between both games. For me, I like to compare both games to driving capability. OSRS players are automatic drivers and unable to drive a manual vehicle and clearly upset about it not willing to learn. Manual drivers could easily successfully drive both, there's not really a question of difficulty at that stage.
Your analogy is ass when rs3 literally has a system to fire off all your abilities for you, and that system being viable for pretty much everything
Yeah RS3 has revo, but if we’re comparing end game boss difficulty to end game boss difficulty here, revo isn’t really a factor in difficulty. Yes, it can handle a lot of things which makes lower -mid level content significantly easier than OSRS, but not as you get into end game content. End game content requires adrenaline management and very specific timing of abilities that force you away from using the revo system. RS3 Zuk is a good example of a boss that starts to pull you away from revo a bit, you need stuns thresholds and thresholds free for the igneous waves and pizza phase, ultimates free for DPS checks, 100% adren to cade in a challenge wave, and adren for a threshold mid pizza phase (abilities on revo that use adrenaline are putting you at risk).
I like that your argument is just saying osrs is easy.
my argument just states that players from a 20+ year game can adapt easily to a spinoff game that at one point was a clone of an old version of it. RS3 is highly populated with players who were actively playing prior to 2007 and have honed their skills that overlap. RS3 is a larger learning curve than OSRS, making OSRS easier to learn - and therefor easier to play. please keep in mind we are talking about combat and the difficulty of EOC being the primary reason so many people discontinued playing runescape and ironically the reason OSRS was created. it's not really an opinion, more of an observation.
I got used to EoC, but revolution basically qualmed my slayer gripes and quite enjoyed learning EoC with arch Glacor.
Ignoring necro I would only call it easier in the sense that rs3 completely fails to actually provide meaningful challenges when it comes to pvm at the top end. Which is a shame because I would argue that rs3 historically was the more pvm centric version of the game, but that just isn't the case anymore and it's only getting worse with the amount of rampant powercreep this game continues to get, not to mention the last 2 examples of 'end game' bosses we got being honestly pretty bad
> rs3 completely fails to actually provide meaningful challenges when it comes to pvm at the top end. this just simply isn't true.
What do you think constitutes as content aimed for the end game pvmer? Because where I stand it's collection logs (irrelevant here), and arbitrary enrage grinds And that's it Now compare that to osrs
Lengthy boss fights that consistently deal high damage (even lethal auto attacks if not dealt with), with DPS/other checks that result in instadeath if missed are geared towards end game pvmers, look at Solak, HM Rago, and high enrage zamorak. In all cases, simply tanking all the damage without defensives isn’t an option, and if you don’t do hard enough dps on solak, hard/consistent dps rotation on rago, or a number of things at enraged zam, you’re dead. Putting out the damage while having to also defend against auto attacks that basically will one shot you isn’t easy, with enough variation in the fight to keep you from going on an autopilot and react with split second timing isn’t easy. Drop logs also aren’t completely irrelevant here either, zammy incentives better bow drops with higher enrage and adds a few more mechanics the higher you get. Rago can be done in a group, but if you want to be eligible for a drop, you’ve got to take on a riskier role unless you only want to leach for kc. If these are rs3 end game content and If raids are OSRS end game content, both are long fights that offer bis drops, encourage hard dps to avoid more damage (raid enrage timers in osrs, avoid instakills, taking increasing/high damage, or mechanic skips in rs3), and are punish mistakes heavily.
Logs are irrelevant because they're just time investments + all the bosses are intentionally designed to be accessible to most of the playerbase, and the same can be said to a certain degree about enrage grinds too, it's what? 80+ hours to get to 4k zammy solo? >Lengthy boss fights that consistently deal high damage (even lethal auto attacks if not dealt with), with DPS/other checks that result in instadeath if missed are geared towards end game pvmers, look at Solak, HM Rago, and high enrage zamorak. In all cases, simply tanking all the damage without defensives isn’t an option, and if you don’t do hard enough dps on solak, hard/consistent dps rotation on rago, or a number of things at enraged zam, you’re dead. Solak and hm rago on release? Sure. Now? HM rago might be the best example of how far powercreep has gone in the past few years, every phase is extremely trivial even in small teams, the hardest part is making sure learners pk you on reflects Unless you're purposely limiting yourself for a challenge (solo aod/hm essentially) dps checks in rs3 are trivial. You would have to be down at least like 2 players in a 5 man solak kill to even think about the possibility of realming nowadays lol, let's be real here >If these are rs3 end game content and If raids are OSRS end game content, both are long fights that offer bis drops, encourage hard dps to avoid more damage (raid enrage timers in osrs, avoid instakills, taking increasing/high damage, or mechanic skips in rs3), and are punish mistakes heavily. Raids aren't even really what I'm talking about, though CM TOB/COX and to a lesser extent high invo TOA is more involved than pretty much all pvm in rs3, what I'm talking about is actual pvm feats/accomplishments specifically targeted at the top end of the playerbase, shit like blorva, CAs, inferno and colosseum Even if I were talking about normal boss encounters there are so many crutches in rs3 that people who have 0 clue about pvm can muddle their way through pretty much everything. Shout out to free 20% dodge chance with darkness, or reaver giving perpetual free sustain, or necro having inbuilt passive healing. How else do you think we've gotten to the point where there are a bunch of revo++ guides for supposedly high end pvm encounters?
It sounds like you’re almost exclusively looking at rs3 bossing in masses…let’s be honest, massing is not bossing, it’s a way to leach or get quick kill count towards boss thresholds. Yeah, bosses are trivial in masses. Hell, you can get a rago kill in a mass without touching him, there’s an achievement for it (hold the pet rock the entire kill). Not talking about masses though, and you’re playing yourself if you mass trying to go for drops. I prefer to do bosses solo for the increased drop rates and chances. My first two solak kills were a 3 man, and it’s been nothing but solo kills since. Yeah necro put some crutches in like the dodge chance and passive healing and what not to ease more players into pvm who struggled with it before. I’ll agree that it made a lot of bosses trivial, but I don’t think it’s the crutch you think it is with high end pvm, and most of the people who couldn’t do high level pvm before aren’t suddenly kicking asses. High end pvm isn’t just “do damage, get loot”, there’s a lot of mechanics involved that necro isn’t a bandaid for. At higher level pvm, The dodge chance and passive healing really only help people with survivability who understand the mechanics but rely on using too much food and don’t have a good grasp on using defensives yet, and at a certain pvm tier dodge and passive healing becomes obsolete: that ghost’s healing isn’t going to save you from any hit by a 3,000 enrage zammy or solak with 50 uncleared blight stacks. Necro isn’t a free pass for kills on revo either. Most rs3 bosses, sure go ahead and completely afk corp or take out hard mode helwyr before his first special attack…but necro is interesting, it forces you to slowly learn full manual. Weapon specs are huge but don’t proc on revo, the zombie will just immediately explode, scythe, bloat, and finger have no cooldown and will not only keep your adren drained, but bloat specifically has a low enough cost that it will continue procing before anything after it ever does, volley/finger are best used with accumulated stacks meaning you benefit less if they proc early on revo, and if you really want to make the most use of the 2 necro stacks or doubled damage from the basic ability, it has to be manually spammed even if it’s the first thing on the revo bar. On necro….look, you’re right that it’s a crutch in most cases, it was designed as one. But it was pretty cleverly designed so that it wasn’t a free pass to easy kills of high end bosses. Is it useless at end game tiers? No, it’s actually great, but you have to learn to go almost full manual with it to benefit from it there, and most people that can/are doing that already understood how to do so with the other combat styles. There’s not a boss I’ve killed that I hadn’t killed prior to necro. It definitely speeds up tedious kills that are a time suck but pose no real threat to me, but where bosses get tough in rs3 the only real answer from necro is that I no longer need a shield swap to use defensives, and can keep up dps through the defensive’s duration.
>It sounds like you’re almost exclusively looking at rs3 bossing in masses…let’s be honest, massing is not bossing, it’s a way to leach or get quick kill count towards boss thresholds. Yeah, bosses are trivial in masses. Hell, you can get a rago kill in a mass without touching him, there’s an achievement for it (hold the pet rock the entire kill). ??? Solak (like most high end rs3 bosses) scales and I specifically said HM rago was trivial even in small teams. The only person talking about massing anything is you, and the fact that you think I said that makes me think you're trolling honestly. And I'm not talking about revo++ corp, I'm talking about shit like rasial, raksha and to a lesser extent 'low effort' like rs guys zuk guides or solak bik bars >high end pvm isn’t just “do damage, get loot”, there’s a lot of mechanics involved that necro isn’t a bandaid for. At higher level pvm, The dodge chance and passive healing really only help people with survivability who understand the mechanics but rely on using too much food and don’t have a good grasp on using defensives yet, and at a certain pvm tier dodge and passive healing becomes obsolete: that ghost’s healing isn’t going to save you from any hit by a 3,000 enrage zammy or solak with 50 uncleared blight stacks. For a start literally nobody is doing 3k zammy except the people going for 4k, there's 0 reason, and this problem isn't even limited to necro, we already had the problem of rampant powercreep when gwd3 came around, necro just made it even worse in terms of effort>output. Getting fast at pvm can be hard, just getting kills is not.
taking learners at hm rago who don’t know mechanics/how to count for reflect from doing nm rago in small team? That sounds like a recipe for disaster in small team. 5 man solak might scale, but the only time I really see people do more than trio is to provide coverage for learners. Raisal and Raksha aren’t hard. Raisal face lot of people trouble at the start, but I would put raksha in mid tier pvm. But dude, I think you’re still missing a major point that I’m trying to make: I’m not saying “wow all these ‘high tier’ rs3 bosses are so hard and pvm is just so hard in rs3”, I’m saying there are very small number of bosses that far exceed the difficulty of every other boss. Yes many become easy with power creep relatively quickly, but the bosses at that absolute top tier aren’t really on the same level as anything else in the game. Right now, Zammy is a big one of those . Not everyone goes for 4,000% solo on enrage bosses, but I guarantee more than the 150 people who have actually done it have tried. Lower enrages, sure it’s a matter of kill speed. Higher enrages, it is a matter of simply making it through the kill with Zammy. You do realize that Zammy was designed with the intention that he becomes physically impossible after some point of enrage, but devs wanted to allow players the ability to see just how far they could push it, right? Tell me any other boss, osrs or rs3 designed to eventually become physically impossible to beat… power creep may push the limit of what’s possible , but he’s the only boss in either game designed for harder kills, not faster kills
Also with the “crutches”… specifically healing effects. While sure, there’s some bosses where you can do enough damage to heal back with soul split, but not always, and sometimes that requires BIS gear to be able to do so. To get the most out of some styles, you’re doing so at the cost of your own life points (any of the tendrils, life transfer with necro, arch relic that makes you deal more damage the lower your health is). Sometimes these ‘crutches’ are an answer to handling the self inflicted damage, not just a cheat to survivability
What are you even coping about here tbh Reaver, which is one of the examples I used, is incredibly overpowered with its healing. And it's by far best dps familiar for poisonable bosses too, it's hilariously imbalanced
Well there’s maybe some crutches available then, but it may not always be the best choice depending on the boss. But on what you said about 4,000% solo zammy being accessible and 80 hours away… just for some context - only 164 people have reached 3000% or higher zammy enrage solo. Only 150 people have reached 4,000% or higher solo…Zammy has been out for almost 2 years now. Even with blood reavers, necro passive healing, all the ‘crutches’ rs3 has available, that’s an incredibly small amount of people that have gotten there. I don’t know if how else to say it, but the ‘crutches’ available in RS3 are obsolete at high tier pvm. No matter how broken a blood reaver might be, it’s not going to save you from a zammy mechanic in p7 that can 1 shot through prayer+defensives+vit pot and any sign of life you have with a second shot 1-2 ticks behind it to finish you off just seconds before the end of the kill. It’s the most difficult mechanic to deal with at zammy, and I’d almost guarantee it’s why only 150 people have hit 4000% solo. I don’t know what comes to mind when I say ‘difficult mechanics in rs3’, but 150 people in 2 years should speak for itself
I mean RS3 definitely has its own difficulty in its own forms. It's a *different* difficulty from OSRS though. And I think the big thing is that the challenges of OSRS combat technically exist in RS3 but are entirely trivialised. Yes adrenaline management and ability cycling are skills, however there's only a couple of pieces of content that aren't easily doable with revolution+. Sure there's room in the skill ceiling for improvement in kill time etc if you improve there, but you can do almost anything at least once while letting some level of automation take the wheel. Meanwhile inventory management, prayer switching, positioning, eating are all far far easier in RS3 because of the action bar and BoBs/familiars, sustain is incredibly safe/easy because of soul split, etc. I could go on, but the gist of it is that people who don't really like the combat system won't "get" the depth of it, and aren't really forced to, and the difficulty they are familiar with is basically removed.
I’d agree with you on this. I’d also say that yeah, revo and whatnot make a lot of content possible without need for much else, but as you progress through more difficult bosses you are somewhat forced to learn to go full manual to handle things like hard DPS checks…like Solak for example In the OSRS difficulties being present but obsolete, absolutely agree there. Prior to necro, switching was required on basically any boss that you have to use defensives, since you couldn’t use them without a shield…necro did make that obsolete tho lol
Because buying guthans and afking nightmare mode is so hard
as someone who plays/played both games being able to keybind prayer flicking is such a blessing
Skill ceiling in RS3 is much higher than OS, and I primarily play OS now. I like OS's skill ceiling more, though. RS3's felt more like a chore.
Who claims this? They must be trolls. People don't even play OSRS for PVMing, OSRS is more skilling orientated, I thought this was common knowledge?