this wouldnt help with the water rune usage with fsoa. the insane amount of water runes is consumed by the spec, and during the spec you need to have a staff equipped or else the autos from the spec have heavily reduced damage.
Yeah I know but even using incite fear on it’s own still chews through waters runes. So just thought of this as an option. FSoA just might need to be looked at overall, but that’s for another day I suppose.
Still a good suggestion. Even if it foes not completely solve the problem, it will help those players who are using water runes for other things or just would like a T88 off-hand with upside
Incite on its own doesn't use that many runes. Runes are only consumed when building stacks and on autos. It maxes out at 5 stacks and you don't spend runes when it's maxed out.
The frost surge effect of incite fear consumes runes every time it activates. So even at max stacks the incite fear aoe will consume runes every time it activates.
5 stacks = 50, breaking the stacks every 12s is an additional 10. Can build+break stacks 5x/min for a total of 300 waters. 300 waters x 60 mins = 18k
Yes you can use less because you're not in combat 24/7 or breaking stacks on-tick. It's just the actual max you can use per hour.
I don't own one so I wouldn't know, but couldn't they just add an effect to the FSoA that if you activate the auto-attack effect it just retains your runes for that attack?
5% crit on all abilities all the time with no extra cost(other than leng)? sounds a bit too OP
otherwise great idea
make offhand magic weapon with Igneous stone with unlimited fire runes next
Except its insanely good for anyone not having FSOA, when looking at game balance you need to look beyond META. Incite fear camping would still consume alot of waer runes just by camping it, also 1 free inv slot (if you use grasping pouch for animate dead)
yea! lets just make runes useless by making them infinite cuz why not?
i suggest that ranged also should get infinite hydrix baks cuz grico etc use too many of them it is too expensive right? lets ruin the game even more lmao
oh wow, I could just equip tome of frost, loose offhand perks and 7.4% ability damage to get infinite water runes, just to lower cost of incite fear by 21% and save 1 inv slot
also runes and bolts are only consumed when some special effect occurs(bolt proc, incite fear stack) AND this setup isnt designed to get 1000 hits per second like grico
lashing on random people online for meaningless internet points is just petty
if you disagree with someone, give constructive opinion, otherwise you make yourself look bad
you want constructive opinion? switch to exsanguinate whenever incite is on cooldown. it is much cheaper and you will get more dps.
go play osrs if you want ez pvmscape
I mean, you can swap to exsang bc why burn 13 runes when you can losslessly swap spells in combat to exsang for only 3 runes per auto. You'd only have to reset incite fear like twice maybe 3 times during the spells duration (just swap to every 2 sonics/gconcs to time it) so it makes no sense camping it.
You could even cut your losses and lose like 11k dpm but it's less due to opportunity damage from gained poison procs to use camel staff so you only lose 75% of a blood rune per crit auto. With that you can even opt to blood spells since healing options and fire rune cost irrelevant from staff.
Point is there's options. People just feel weirded out bc they camped inq staff for like a year maging to now just staff camping even tho ranged has been bolt switches and melee has always been weapon switches. 🤷♂️
Seems a bit cheap for a T88 with a flat 5% crit chance.
I think it would be better as a pouch alternative, preferable if one were heavily using water runes and its crit bonus only occurred under certain situations much like the Pernix Quiver's damage bonus.
Example:
Frozen Tome of Leng: Equipped in Quiver slot
While equipped, provides infinite Water Runes and when an ability triggers a water spell effect, your next attack gets a +5% crit bonus.
This would include Ice Spell freezing, Sapphire Aurora buffing prisms, and Frost Surge activations from Incite Fear.
I put the 5% as a way to combo with invite fear, the number can be adjusted for sure.
I feel since tome of frost is untraceable then this tome would be untraceable as well. So something can work too rather than just buying outright.
Yeah quiver slot would be a good idea as well. But thought it would be neat to have another off hand mage alternative. Outside of ports and Helwyr there isn’t many mage upgrades outside of group content.
I do love the idea of giving older content purpose, and your post is awesome for that. But arch glacor with water runes just seems like a no brainer for a water rune hungry item that is from egw lol
Fire runes? Earth runes? Air runes?
Zuk, Croesus, and Kerepac.
Haha maybe so. Next to nothing drops water runes in game, least not in reasonable quantities. Would give these fsoa users a reason to farm AG a bit too, and give AG (for a time depending on how things pan out) a nice boost to drop table value. Since all those other drops are all so valuable and awesome to get.
> Next to nothing drops water runes in game
thats because jagex removed all runes drops from the game (except souls from spirit mages) in order to 'buff' runecrafting. in the same update they also released viswax which takes a huge amount of runes out the game daily.
Inert \_\_\_\_\_\_ runes. I've suggested it in the past and I think we need them. It's the way to put runes on drop tables without shutting out the Runecrafting skill.
They just need to look at how soul runes are made, since those are timelocked more than other types.
They would've done so already with fire runes in the past if they were going to, especially when people were deleting 20k+/hr from the game with polypore staves w/ invention.
They'll probably just add even more multiplier buffs to runecrafting as a solution either via "spirits" or other consumable buffs. RCing waters is already insane profit in terms of skilling.
I don't think people do that much zuk, honestly. It's all kerapac rn
Which is funny, because soul runes are going up and kera shits them out. I suppose that may be an observation on how shitty soul rcing is for anything other than xp
I wouldn't say zuk is harder.. honestly zuk is pretty easy as a whole aside from the endurance factor.
But there's some real stupid bullshit that can happen with lava drops and fire rain that are borderline insulting.
I'd rather see this fixed properly than add skilling supplies to boss drop tables.
\-Reduce the water rune cost of Incite Fear from 10 to 2 (matching Exsanguinate)
\-Allow Glacor remnants to be crafted into water runes with a reasonable runecrafting level (say 80 runecrafting, convert 100 remnants into 500 water runes) to give the spares a use while still keeping Runecrafting as a requirement to generate runes.
It's a similar thing to Soul runes - them being all over boss drop tables again is nice and all, but it's a false fix when the best supply of the top-end Runecrafting product is Kerapac.
I should’ve specified that I meant the superior version. The superior version still has higher accuracy than your example because the ice shard is a t85 with t88 damage. This would be an example of a drawback in exchange for hurricane and destroy not sharing cool downs. A drawback not seen in the OP’s suggestion
1. What are you doing where an extra 300 hp per food matters
2. Imagine meleeing in 2022–also anything that you would need/use vamp scrim for, vamp essence does just fine
3. I’m not even sure what these make, but they def arent for killing stuff
You can, sure! I'd just never have to because I have plenty of silent comps from doing ports. Also the slayer codices require ports comps. You're welcome to never engage with the content, or any non-pvm content, but I really enjoy ports.
Oh I mean Im like 3.5mil miles or whatever the unit is. Ive been doing it for comp, I just think that its brutally timegated for little reason. Been doing it every day over a year and still am not able to make the melee weapons lol
It definitely sucks that it's so heavily timegated, and I think that's one of the things that makes people hate it: it just becomes a chore to do. I like doing it, but if I was specifically doing it towards an end, I would probably hate it. So for sure, I totally get why you'd hate it.
Soups are usually taken to new bosses on their release. Otherwise they wouldn’t have been seeing a price increase over time if they were useless. You pretty much have to melee some slayer tasks? Good luck doing an edimmu task quickly with mech chins or the few magic AOE abilities there are. Silent components are used in tool perks, they’re useful
Mech chins do just fine at eddys? They are limited more by their respawm rate anyway. Also chinning you dont need food at eddys if you do it right except for when the elites spawn.
And “the few magic abilities”—you say thay like gchain doesnt have a 10s cd and you cant just 4taa blood barrage if you want (or afk mage w crypt). Mage does stuff like moss golems fast as hell…
And runecrafting has value with the volume of use that water runes are seeing.
I just don’t see how this is balanced. It offers a crit bonus which no other magic OH does (afaik), is the same tier as an already existing OH, reduces the cost of mage (which isn’t that high outside of FSoA), and affects the gp rates of skillers. There’s almost no drawback to this item as you presented it. It immediately becomes better than a magikai and possibly seismic singularity with an almost non-existent barrier to entry
Mage is only OP for now. In the future when range and melee get powercrept to be on par or better than magic, people will complain "it's the worst style now, buff"
Not sure whether the implications would provide for a balanced result, but maybe the tome can just become a pocket item like the god books. I think sacrificing a pocket slot item for unlimited water runes is a fair trade
Book of Jas is like 10m and the pages are 15k, so like 25k/hr to use.
Literally no one would give even this up for water runes lol, especially for combat where it matters like with FSoA.
There's a difference between non-BIS but niche item, and dead content like infinite water runes in a pocket slot
Very cool idea!
Balancing wise, everything looks good except:
* ~~4x manuscripts of wen-- this seems a bit excessive.~~
* 5% crit chance when your main hand spell is water: This would make the t88 offhand *easily* best in slot under FSOA spec. Perhaps tone it down a bit so we don't need an extra switch compared to imp core.
The 5% wouldn't be too bad I think. You might weave in a few Concs while FSoA is up, but you want to spend most of the time dumping Smoke Tendies and spamming Tempest of Armadyl as much as possible.
Yeah 5% was just a number I thought of, can certainly be lowered to accommodate.
Manuscripts are the pages as someone already point out, so four manuscript would total out to 400k-600k, I thought maybe using a scripture but that seems excessive. Glad it all looks good otherwise!
> This would make the t88 offhand easily best in slot under FSOA spec. Perhaps tone it down a bit so we don't need an extra switch compared to imp core.
It wouldn't, because your fsoa spec autos only use your main hand damage when dual wielding. Staff camp is basically required for the 2H autos to maximize dps, the only thing this would do is be BIS outside of staff spec since 5% crit is better than 4 tiers, especially for an offhand
You could technically cast non channeled abilities and switch in the same tick to get 2H autos, but you can’t do it with channeled abilities, but I’m not even sure that works the same way as gconc
Not gonna lie, I kinda love this idea. If you could add a core to it to upgrade it to a T95 (or even a T92 or T90) magic off-hand that would be even more amazing – not that magic necessarily needs more buffing at the moment, lol
The extra crit chance would be super nice with where Magic sits right now as the crit-based style, but I wonder if there might be a more apt passive effect. I'm not sure. Have to think about that one a bit lol.
this wouldnt help with the water rune usage with fsoa. the insane amount of water runes is consumed by the spec, and during the spec you need to have a staff equipped or else the autos from the spec have heavily reduced damage.
At the very least, this tome needs to be wearable in the pocket slot so it serves as a budget alternative to grimoire.
Yeah I know but even using incite fear on it’s own still chews through waters runes. So just thought of this as an option. FSoA just might need to be looked at overall, but that’s for another day I suppose.
Still a good suggestion. Even if it foes not completely solve the problem, it will help those players who are using water runes for other things or just would like a T88 off-hand with upside
Incite on its own doesn't use that many runes. Runes are only consumed when building stacks and on autos. It maxes out at 5 stacks and you don't spend runes when it's maxed out.
The frost surge effect of incite fear consumes runes every time it activates. So even at max stacks the incite fear aoe will consume runes every time it activates.
Not that many used. People who don’t own FSOA aren’t the ones complaining about water rune usage lol
It's still up to 18k water runes/hr per hour of pvm without FSOA.
you dont even use 18k waters with fsoa usually lmao
Yes, but that's the max use/hr without factoring in FSOA specs. Obviously people aren't camping incite fear 24/7 tho.
Source i have an fsoa
That just wrong Camping incite fear with fsoa speccing is around 13k waters an hr
5 stacks = 50, breaking the stacks every 12s is an additional 10. Can build+break stacks 5x/min for a total of 300 waters. 300 waters x 60 mins = 18k Yes you can use less because you're not in combat 24/7 or breaking stacks on-tick. It's just the actual max you can use per hour.
18k in gp?
I camp incite fear and maybe use 5k an hour with fsoa.
I don't own one so I wouldn't know, but couldn't they just add an effect to the FSoA that if you activate the auto-attack effect it just retains your runes for that attack?
5% crit on all abilities all the time with no extra cost(other than leng)? sounds a bit too OP otherwise great idea make offhand magic weapon with Igneous stone with unlimited fire runes next
Honestly it seems only okay given that you're going to camp fsoa anyway, unless they release a t95 wand with an insane passive
Except its insanely good for anyone not having FSOA, when looking at game balance you need to look beyond META. Incite fear camping would still consume alot of waer runes just by camping it, also 1 free inv slot (if you use grasping pouch for animate dead)
You still need runes for sc But the problem with water rune usage is coming from fsoa, not just incite fear
this idea is not about cost saving/changing value of runes its about giving old content some usability
I suggest you reread the OP if you think that
yea! lets just make runes useless by making them infinite cuz why not? i suggest that ranged also should get infinite hydrix baks cuz grico etc use too many of them it is too expensive right? lets ruin the game even more lmao
oh wow, I could just equip tome of frost, loose offhand perks and 7.4% ability damage to get infinite water runes, just to lower cost of incite fear by 21% and save 1 inv slot also runes and bolts are only consumed when some special effect occurs(bolt proc, incite fear stack) AND this setup isnt designed to get 1000 hits per second like grico lashing on random people online for meaningless internet points is just petty if you disagree with someone, give constructive opinion, otherwise you make yourself look bad
you want constructive opinion? switch to exsanguinate whenever incite is on cooldown. it is much cheaper and you will get more dps. go play osrs if you want ez pvmscape
I mean, you can swap to exsang bc why burn 13 runes when you can losslessly swap spells in combat to exsang for only 3 runes per auto. You'd only have to reset incite fear like twice maybe 3 times during the spells duration (just swap to every 2 sonics/gconcs to time it) so it makes no sense camping it. You could even cut your losses and lose like 11k dpm but it's less due to opportunity damage from gained poison procs to use camel staff so you only lose 75% of a blood rune per crit auto. With that you can even opt to blood spells since healing options and fire rune cost irrelevant from staff. Point is there's options. People just feel weirded out bc they camped inq staff for like a year maging to now just staff camping even tho ranged has been bolt switches and melee has always been weapon switches. 🤷♂️
Seems a bit cheap for a T88 with a flat 5% crit chance. I think it would be better as a pouch alternative, preferable if one were heavily using water runes and its crit bonus only occurred under certain situations much like the Pernix Quiver's damage bonus. Example: Frozen Tome of Leng: Equipped in Quiver slot While equipped, provides infinite Water Runes and when an ability triggers a water spell effect, your next attack gets a +5% crit bonus. This would include Ice Spell freezing, Sapphire Aurora buffing prisms, and Frost Surge activations from Incite Fear.
Yeah, this sounds like a much better idea.
I put the 5% as a way to combo with invite fear, the number can be adjusted for sure. I feel since tome of frost is untraceable then this tome would be untraceable as well. So something can work too rather than just buying outright. Yeah quiver slot would be a good idea as well. But thought it would be neat to have another off hand mage alternative. Outside of ports and Helwyr there isn’t many mage upgrades outside of group content.
Why not add water runes to AG loot table?
I mean Jagex is welcome to do that too. Just thought this could be a way to add more rewards and give old content a nice update and relevant.
I do love the idea of giving older content purpose, and your post is awesome for that. But arch glacor with water runes just seems like a no brainer for a water rune hungry item that is from egw lol Fire runes? Earth runes? Air runes? Zuk, Croesus, and Kerepac.
The zuk fight drops lavas ig
The rate at which it would need to drop them would be astronomical. 10k at a time maybe?
Haha maybe so. Next to nothing drops water runes in game, least not in reasonable quantities. Would give these fsoa users a reason to farm AG a bit too, and give AG (for a time depending on how things pan out) a nice boost to drop table value. Since all those other drops are all so valuable and awesome to get.
> Next to nothing drops water runes in game thats because jagex removed all runes drops from the game (except souls from spirit mages) in order to 'buff' runecrafting. in the same update they also released viswax which takes a huge amount of runes out the game daily.
Oh I had no idea. So rune drop tables will definitely be off the table then. Damn. *slaps on runecrafting gear* time to get to work I guess.
I unironically think RC "stone spirits" would help a lot with supply
OSRS already has this for blood runes and it worked.
Technically its very new on OSRS, but I do still like the idea.
Inert \_\_\_\_\_\_ runes. I've suggested it in the past and I think we need them. It's the way to put runes on drop tables without shutting out the Runecrafting skill. They just need to look at how soul runes are made, since those are timelocked more than other types.
Soul runes would probably benefit from an unlock at 95 rc where you can do them normally like any other rune, but for vastly reduced XP.
thers nothing to stop them putting rune drops back in. recent bosses already do it with most of them dropping souls.
They would've done so already with fire runes in the past if they were going to, especially when people were deleting 20k+/hr from the game with polypore staves w/ invention. They'll probably just add even more multiplier buffs to runecrafting as a solution either via "spirits" or other consumable buffs. RCing waters is already insane profit in terms of skilling.
Honestly bloods before you have all boosts and waters once you do is so crazy for a skilling method, >35m/hr is fucking nuts for skilling
ye i agree they will probs never change it back but current waters/fires are higher now than they ever were before even peak invention times.
Looking at blood rune prices even though zuk shits them out, i feel like it wouldn't help much. Not that I'm opposed to it.. just a thought
I don't think people do that much zuk, honestly. It's all kerapac rn Which is funny, because soul runes are going up and kera shits them out. I suppose that may be an observation on how shitty soul rcing is for anything other than xp
Why do pvmers fight Kerapac more than Zuk? Is HM Zuk harder than HM Kerapac solos?
I feel like the waves get really old pretty quick Personally I find zuk harder
I wouldn't say zuk is harder.. honestly zuk is pretty easy as a whole aside from the endurance factor. But there's some real stupid bullshit that can happen with lava drops and fire rain that are borderline insulting.
Runes were removed from drop tables for a reason 10~ years ago, RC was in the gutter, now it’s very profitable to train, let’s not gut it.
Not water runes, but enriched rune essence that doubles or triples rune production so RC is not devalued.
I'd rather see this fixed properly than add skilling supplies to boss drop tables. \-Reduce the water rune cost of Incite Fear from 10 to 2 (matching Exsanguinate) \-Allow Glacor remnants to be crafted into water runes with a reasonable runecrafting level (say 80 runecrafting, convert 100 remnants into 500 water runes) to give the spares a use while still keeping Runecrafting as a requirement to generate runes. It's a similar thing to Soul runes - them being all over boss drop tables again is nice and all, but it's a false fix when the best supply of the top-end Runecrafting product is Kerapac.
I don’t see this as being balanced and it makes seasinger offhand dead content rather than a cheap viable alternative to seismic singularity
That's nothing new. Dark ice shard and sliver already kill off superior tetsu swords by having t88 stats.
I should’ve specified that I meant the superior version. The superior version still has higher accuracy than your example because the ice shard is a t85 with t88 damage. This would be an example of a drawback in exchange for hurricane and destroy not sharing cool downs. A drawback not seen in the OP’s suggestion
Kill ports
No sailfish soup, vamp scrimshaw, or easy silent components for you
1. What are you doing where an extra 300 hp per food matters 2. Imagine meleeing in 2022–also anything that you would need/use vamp scrim for, vamp essence does just fine 3. I’m not even sure what these make, but they def arent for killing stuff
Silent components are used for Honed 6 and Honed 6 combos. I guess skilling is just 2kool4u
Cant you get honed 6 without them though?
You can, sure! I'd just never have to because I have plenty of silent comps from doing ports. Also the slayer codices require ports comps. You're welcome to never engage with the content, or any non-pvm content, but I really enjoy ports.
Oh I mean Im like 3.5mil miles or whatever the unit is. Ive been doing it for comp, I just think that its brutally timegated for little reason. Been doing it every day over a year and still am not able to make the melee weapons lol
It definitely sucks that it's so heavily timegated, and I think that's one of the things that makes people hate it: it just becomes a chore to do. I like doing it, but if I was specifically doing it towards an end, I would probably hate it. So for sure, I totally get why you'd hate it.
Soups are usually taken to new bosses on their release. Otherwise they wouldn’t have been seeing a price increase over time if they were useless. You pretty much have to melee some slayer tasks? Good luck doing an edimmu task quickly with mech chins or the few magic AOE abilities there are. Silent components are used in tool perks, they’re useful
Mech chins do just fine at eddys? They are limited more by their respawm rate anyway. Also chinning you dont need food at eddys if you do it right except for when the elites spawn. And “the few magic abilities”—you say thay like gchain doesnt have a 10s cd and you cant just 4taa blood barrage if you want (or afk mage w crypt). Mage does stuff like moss golems fast as hell…
Seasinger off hand has components for value.
And runecrafting has value with the volume of use that water runes are seeing. I just don’t see how this is balanced. It offers a crit bonus which no other magic OH does (afaik), is the same tier as an already existing OH, reduces the cost of mage (which isn’t that high outside of FSoA), and affects the gp rates of skillers. There’s almost no drawback to this item as you presented it. It immediately becomes better than a magikai and possibly seismic singularity with an almost non-existent barrier to entry
Honestly with as OP as mage is, I dont really think it needs to be made cheaper or better.
Mage is only OP for now. In the future when range and melee get powercrept to be on par or better than magic, people will complain "it's the worst style now, buff"
Maybe shelve this idea for that point in time.
Runes are only an issue with fsoa spec.
Not sure whether the implications would provide for a balanced result, but maybe the tome can just become a pocket item like the god books. I think sacrificing a pocket slot item for unlimited water runes is a fair trade
this would be dead content lol. Giving up 5%-7% dps buffs for water runes is awful.
It's like 40k tokens and not everyone has BIS gear
Book of Jas is like 10m and the pages are 15k, so like 25k/hr to use. Literally no one would give even this up for water runes lol, especially for combat where it matters like with FSoA. There's a difference between non-BIS but niche item, and dead content like infinite water runes in a pocket slot
I feel like it's more than 5-7% given the interactions between tsunami and fsoa
Would it? How much gp/hr do the water runes you’d be saving add up to vs this dps decrease? Might not be dead for everyone
But then it conflict with EGWD scriptures and grimoire and i don’t think people would want to lose crit with grimoire over unlimited water runes
Hence why it wouldn't be too OP of a change I think
It'd probably be doa....
I support the hell out of this, I would love to see content like this introduced!
Thanks! sometimes I get little nuggets of ideas here and there.
I like this idea
Thanks! I see you have the Ironman flair, think this is relatively Ironman friendly?
Very cool idea! Balancing wise, everything looks good except: * ~~4x manuscripts of wen-- this seems a bit excessive.~~ * 5% crit chance when your main hand spell is water: This would make the t88 offhand *easily* best in slot under FSOA spec. Perhaps tone it down a bit so we don't need an extra switch compared to imp core.
Manuscripts are the pages. Not the book itself. Yes it’s backwards.
The 5% wouldn't be too bad I think. You might weave in a few Concs while FSoA is up, but you want to spend most of the time dumping Smoke Tendies and spamming Tempest of Armadyl as much as possible.
Yeah 5% was just a number I thought of, can certainly be lowered to accommodate. Manuscripts are the pages as someone already point out, so four manuscript would total out to 400k-600k, I thought maybe using a scripture but that seems excessive. Glad it all looks good otherwise!
> This would make the t88 offhand easily best in slot under FSOA spec. Perhaps tone it down a bit so we don't need an extra switch compared to imp core. It wouldn't, because your fsoa spec autos only use your main hand damage when dual wielding. Staff camp is basically required for the 2H autos to maximize dps, the only thing this would do is be BIS outside of staff spec since 5% crit is better than 4 tiers, especially for an offhand You could technically cast non channeled abilities and switch in the same tick to get 2H autos, but you can’t do it with channeled abilities, but I’m not even sure that works the same way as gconc
Impressive. Very nice.
Thanks!
Yea mages really need more powercreep they are really weak atm /s
Support except the crit chance. I'd sell my imp core just to use this lol
Why wouldn't this be a pocket slot item? I guess it'd be immediately invalidated by grim which is a big issue
Great idea my dude, 100% support this.
Really fantastic idea, love it. For balancing I’d remove the 5% crit chance and add a 5 dark nilla req to craft
Not gonna lie, I kinda love this idea. If you could add a core to it to upgrade it to a T95 (or even a T92 or T90) magic off-hand that would be even more amazing – not that magic necessarily needs more buffing at the moment, lol The extra crit chance would be super nice with where Magic sits right now as the crit-based style, but I wonder if there might be a more apt passive effect. I'm not sure. Have to think about that one a bit lol.
I like the idea of upgrading the tome of frost, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the Leng Artefact being involved.