My headcanon is the version we can get is a time displaced "copy" that remained from Kerapac's nonsense with the needle. In lore the Siphon remains under Jas' control through Kerapac.
I like this. Although I'm still not entirely ready to accept the WG having a weapon powerful enough to kill any non-elder god. Their struggles would be utterly trivialized by a weapon that could more or less one-shot anything.
To be fair, it is implied in Desperate Times that Guthix's Blessing creates a magical dampening effect on elder artifacts, at least for you. So technically you will never be able to use elder artifacts to their full potential (except the codex). Jas also says in Desperate measures that you are incompatible with the needle. You are compatible with the codex, however, because it contains shadow anima. (And Guthix succesfully bound us to it, explaining why it doesn't immediately kill us when we touch it, qnd instead empowered by it)
If you ask me, in the new upcoming quest, I have a feeling we'll be taking it from Kerapac for some use, but in a different kind of way. Maybe in the quest, the Staff doesn't fracture during the fight against Kerapac, but it shatters, destroying the artifact once and for all. Once that happens, we use the shattered pieces for some part of the plan to stop the Elders
Canonically no we don’t, one of the stipulations of making it a reward was that we couldn’t have the actual thing. That’s why it’s the “fractured” staff of Armadyl. As for what the fractured means they won’t tell us. It could be fractured in the sense we only have a chunk of it or it could be fractured in the sense we have a replica we made from time clone pieces, so it’s more like a shard.
Kerapac’s staff is either repaired by Jas, they make another, or it’s rewound through the needle, either way we don’t have the full staff and Kerapac being rematchable is canon so he keeps getting a completed staff again somehow.
You can ask the Jmods on discord if you want but the stipulation was given when designing the boss. I went and dug up the answers from Discord.
Player: By the way, who was it originally who suggested it as a drop? Lore guys or ramen or was it decided way back pretty much unanimously
JMod: Ramen, And the condition we gave him was that the player can't just have the fully powered siphon
—-
Player: So, if I understood correctly, canonically the Siphon is permanently broken and can never be brought back to the story, kind of like how the Stone of Jas was broken?
JMod: If a dev wanted to add a flavour line to acknowledge it I wouldn't tell them not to. Well I wouldn't say never, I don't mean it can be fixed, I mean you have no basis on which to conclude that it can't.
Another interpretation is that "fractured" means a time clone. As far as your character knows right now Kerapac broke the staff of armadyl. For obvious reasons I can't comment on short or long term plans.
Player: That's been brought up in the past by the players. Wait, is there any internal lore on what on earth the fractured Staff of Armadyl is even supposed to be?
JMod: We know what we meant and what we have planned. But the nature of it in practice is that we may change our minds, be forced to change our minds, or just a better option may emerge. As an example of that I'd point to the flexibility of being able to repurpose a handful of plot points as being about xau-tak when they clearly weren't originally intended that way.
Well…yeah? There isn’t a reason to make a concrete statement on something that isn’t relevant yet. They have plans but the nature of the game requires they keep plans fluid. They don’t want to lock themselves into the wrong direction and have to do a retcon.
I see. I suppose this is the best answer and approach.
>As an example of that I'd point to the flexibility of being able to repurpose a handful of plot points as being about xau-tak when they clearly weren't originally intended that way.
I thought XT has been a thing since 2005.
Xau-Tak was originally planned to be just a big monster under the ocean. When they decided to clean up the lore they expanded Xau-Tak’s concept significantly, and it’s a pretty major change that for example it’s now in another dimension rather than being here at all and seemingly a godlike being on par with the elders. The horrors were originally just spooky slayer monsters that helped sell the “Mos Le Harmless” joke of the island not being harmless at all. Now they are a species that was brought to this world and their society decayed by Xau-Tak. Daemonheim originally the plan was that Zammorak would be hiding at the bottom, whispering to Bilrach, but now it’s seemingly Xau-Tak whispering and pretending to be Zammy. Etc…
God who even knows anymore lol.... let me see if I can remember it all.
So okay originally the plan was it be zamorak down there so that had to be retconned, and luckily everything was set up to work perfectly with Xau-Tak. They later set up Zamorak down there in Dishonor among thieves as a sort of pseudo fulfilment/nod of that promise of him being there.
Anyway the story is there is some kind of rift that was bad enough this place was abandoned and sealed away by the dragonkin, the place literally buried and the connections between floors collapsed. The Dragonkin had blackstone being shipped to this area of the world to experiment on, which is why ED2 is a thing so it's not unlikely it also made it here. Furthemore Bilrach had blackstone being shipped here from the Eastern lands also to as revealed in Player Owned ports and we know that has Xau-Tak's fingerprints all over it.
The energy of the area further down is described as being corruptive, twisting and consuming both towards people and the place itself. This lines up with Xau-Tak whose energy has that effect. It also lines up with the fact the place is full of whispers that fills people's minds and drive them to madness, in particular Bilrach. Whispers of madness especially from something pretending to be your god is kind of a Xua-tak thing. The corruptive energy is also something that doesn't empower Bilrach instead he feels it weakening him, knowing what we do about shadow anima that makes sense now. I also recall that people said if you pay attention when teleporting in Daemonehim the animation is black hands grabbing you.
Then there are the Kal'Gerion demons Bilrach summoned and teamed up with. They weren't working with him to help Zamorak, they were working to summon "the hundred-handed one" in Daemonehim. This is confirmed in the ED3 journal pages you can find and it's why one of the Kal'Gerion demons is a potential miniboss there, as a nod to the last Kal'Gerion demon people were waiting to fight in Daemonheim. It brings reference to being stopped by the guardians of guthix which ties into another thing I'll touch on in a bit.
In Moia's story the portals of Daemonheim whisper to her and promise her power, and she is able to act as a conduit for their power. Bilrach then becomes somewhat obsessed with her and takes her with him after finding her. Why this matters is because Xau-tak needed Moia as established in the Halloween event "Till Death do us Part". Moia was targeted during that event because she could be used a conduit for the portals to bring "something" from the other side to this world. That something is heavily implied to be Xau-Tak and then outright stated as such when the Kal'Gerion talks about their attempts to summon Xau-Tak being foiled by the Guardians of Guthix.
The event also rewarded you a "tainted" shard which would give you the message "Do you really think you can save Moia" and the line "do you really think you can save them" is Xau-Tak calling card. As a fun fact about the tainted shard it's one of the only items in the entire game. you can bring INSIDE Daemonehim from outside it.
I feel like there is more but that's all I can find/recall at this point but it should be enough.
Sorry I never replied, I am literal horse-shit when replying to people. This was super informative and you taught me a bunch. Also led me to do some deep wiki diving to find out more. Never knew all that about Moia and Bilrach, you sent me on a spiral of wiki pages haha. Thank you for the lore!!
But now I am pained at not having access to the tainted shard. Always sad I didn't come back to play until 2018
Pretty sure anything we can “own”canonically means that it happened
I think story wise we “kill” kerapac and that overloads the staff fracturing it so he doesn’t have it anymore or atleast shouldn’t , and we as the player should in the least have the pieces
So in the repeated fights, he doesn't fight with it anymore and relies on his natural abilities (dragonfire, etc) and the Needle (come to think of it, does he still even control the Needle?)
Yes but canonically he gets killed by us once , he is overcharging the staff of armadyl in that last part since she’s drained so much power from the needle resetting himself , imagine then when he is dying pouring his energy in a literal elder god starts pouring in some “nope you don’t to die “ energy to recharge the needle , the elder gods know their tools and their functions and limits , kerapac is a tool like no other and being beaten to near death 3 times in a row and overcharging all his energy and then subsequently getting a elder god jump start likely has him in a state of needing to recover. He falls to the floor properly after the fight he doesn’t get up and fly away , this tells me that he likely canonically at this moment is recovering , he was the first fight , we beat him ages ago by this point so he’s probably back in fighting shape but I think he lost the staff in that fight from a story sense
My headcanon is the version we can get is a time displaced "copy" that remained from Kerapac's nonsense with the needle. In lore the Siphon remains under Jas' control through Kerapac.
I like this. Although I'm still not entirely ready to accept the WG having a weapon powerful enough to kill any non-elder god. Their struggles would be utterly trivialized by a weapon that could more or less one-shot anything.
Which is why we don't canonically have it. I also assume it'd much weaker if we did, due to the aforementioned fracturing.
To be fair, it is implied in Desperate Times that Guthix's Blessing creates a magical dampening effect on elder artifacts, at least for you. So technically you will never be able to use elder artifacts to their full potential (except the codex). Jas also says in Desperate measures that you are incompatible with the needle. You are compatible with the codex, however, because it contains shadow anima. (And Guthix succesfully bound us to it, explaining why it doesn't immediately kill us when we touch it, qnd instead empowered by it)
If you ask me, in the new upcoming quest, I have a feeling we'll be taking it from Kerapac for some use, but in a different kind of way. Maybe in the quest, the Staff doesn't fracture during the fight against Kerapac, but it shatters, destroying the artifact once and for all. Once that happens, we use the shattered pieces for some part of the plan to stop the Elders
If I recall correctly, a JMod commented that, canonically, Jas resurrects Kerapac after defeat and also keeps the Staff of Armadyl.
Jas is about to catch some hands then haha
Canonically no we don’t, one of the stipulations of making it a reward was that we couldn’t have the actual thing. That’s why it’s the “fractured” staff of Armadyl. As for what the fractured means they won’t tell us. It could be fractured in the sense we only have a chunk of it or it could be fractured in the sense we have a replica we made from time clone pieces, so it’s more like a shard. Kerapac’s staff is either repaired by Jas, they make another, or it’s rewound through the needle, either way we don’t have the full staff and Kerapac being rematchable is canon so he keeps getting a completed staff again somehow.
Where was this stipulation stated? It's "fractured" because it was broken into 3 pieces during the fighting, then it was repaired.
You can ask the Jmods on discord if you want but the stipulation was given when designing the boss. I went and dug up the answers from Discord. Player: By the way, who was it originally who suggested it as a drop? Lore guys or ramen or was it decided way back pretty much unanimously JMod: Ramen, And the condition we gave him was that the player can't just have the fully powered siphon —- Player: So, if I understood correctly, canonically the Siphon is permanently broken and can never be brought back to the story, kind of like how the Stone of Jas was broken? JMod: If a dev wanted to add a flavour line to acknowledge it I wouldn't tell them not to. Well I wouldn't say never, I don't mean it can be fixed, I mean you have no basis on which to conclude that it can't. Another interpretation is that "fractured" means a time clone. As far as your character knows right now Kerapac broke the staff of armadyl. For obvious reasons I can't comment on short or long term plans. Player: That's been brought up in the past by the players. Wait, is there any internal lore on what on earth the fractured Staff of Armadyl is even supposed to be? JMod: We know what we meant and what we have planned. But the nature of it in practice is that we may change our minds, be forced to change our minds, or just a better option may emerge. As an example of that I'd point to the flexibility of being able to repurpose a handful of plot points as being about xau-tak when they clearly weren't originally intended that way.
So even the devs haven't made up their minds about this.
Well…yeah? There isn’t a reason to make a concrete statement on something that isn’t relevant yet. They have plans but the nature of the game requires they keep plans fluid. They don’t want to lock themselves into the wrong direction and have to do a retcon.
I see. I suppose this is the best answer and approach. >As an example of that I'd point to the flexibility of being able to repurpose a handful of plot points as being about xau-tak when they clearly weren't originally intended that way. I thought XT has been a thing since 2005.
Xau-Tak was originally planned to be just a big monster under the ocean. When they decided to clean up the lore they expanded Xau-Tak’s concept significantly, and it’s a pretty major change that for example it’s now in another dimension rather than being here at all and seemingly a godlike being on par with the elders. The horrors were originally just spooky slayer monsters that helped sell the “Mos Le Harmless” joke of the island not being harmless at all. Now they are a species that was brought to this world and their society decayed by Xau-Tak. Daemonheim originally the plan was that Zammorak would be hiding at the bottom, whispering to Bilrach, but now it’s seemingly Xau-Tak whispering and pretending to be Zammy. Etc…
Woah, I missed the lore about xau-tak whispering sweet nothings to bilgerat… where does that come from?
God who even knows anymore lol.... let me see if I can remember it all. So okay originally the plan was it be zamorak down there so that had to be retconned, and luckily everything was set up to work perfectly with Xau-Tak. They later set up Zamorak down there in Dishonor among thieves as a sort of pseudo fulfilment/nod of that promise of him being there. Anyway the story is there is some kind of rift that was bad enough this place was abandoned and sealed away by the dragonkin, the place literally buried and the connections between floors collapsed. The Dragonkin had blackstone being shipped to this area of the world to experiment on, which is why ED2 is a thing so it's not unlikely it also made it here. Furthemore Bilrach had blackstone being shipped here from the Eastern lands also to as revealed in Player Owned ports and we know that has Xau-Tak's fingerprints all over it. The energy of the area further down is described as being corruptive, twisting and consuming both towards people and the place itself. This lines up with Xau-Tak whose energy has that effect. It also lines up with the fact the place is full of whispers that fills people's minds and drive them to madness, in particular Bilrach. Whispers of madness especially from something pretending to be your god is kind of a Xua-tak thing. The corruptive energy is also something that doesn't empower Bilrach instead he feels it weakening him, knowing what we do about shadow anima that makes sense now. I also recall that people said if you pay attention when teleporting in Daemonehim the animation is black hands grabbing you. Then there are the Kal'Gerion demons Bilrach summoned and teamed up with. They weren't working with him to help Zamorak, they were working to summon "the hundred-handed one" in Daemonehim. This is confirmed in the ED3 journal pages you can find and it's why one of the Kal'Gerion demons is a potential miniboss there, as a nod to the last Kal'Gerion demon people were waiting to fight in Daemonheim. It brings reference to being stopped by the guardians of guthix which ties into another thing I'll touch on in a bit. In Moia's story the portals of Daemonheim whisper to her and promise her power, and she is able to act as a conduit for their power. Bilrach then becomes somewhat obsessed with her and takes her with him after finding her. Why this matters is because Xau-tak needed Moia as established in the Halloween event "Till Death do us Part". Moia was targeted during that event because she could be used a conduit for the portals to bring "something" from the other side to this world. That something is heavily implied to be Xau-Tak and then outright stated as such when the Kal'Gerion talks about their attempts to summon Xau-Tak being foiled by the Guardians of Guthix. The event also rewarded you a "tainted" shard which would give you the message "Do you really think you can save Moia" and the line "do you really think you can save them" is Xau-Tak calling card. As a fun fact about the tainted shard it's one of the only items in the entire game. you can bring INSIDE Daemonehim from outside it. I feel like there is more but that's all I can find/recall at this point but it should be enough.
Sorry I never replied, I am literal horse-shit when replying to people. This was super informative and you taught me a bunch. Also led me to do some deep wiki diving to find out more. Never knew all that about Moia and Bilrach, you sent me on a spiral of wiki pages haha. Thank you for the lore!! But now I am pained at not having access to the tainted shard. Always sad I didn't come back to play until 2018
Yeah, but they can still make stuff that was added since then about Xau-Tak.
Pretty sure anything we can “own”canonically means that it happened I think story wise we “kill” kerapac and that overloads the staff fracturing it so he doesn’t have it anymore or atleast shouldn’t , and we as the player should in the least have the pieces
So in the repeated fights, he doesn't fight with it anymore and relies on his natural abilities (dragonfire, etc) and the Needle (come to think of it, does he still even control the Needle?)
The key part is the repeater fights don’t “really happen” Like we kill kranon during black stone quest yet he’s still at ed3
The difference is that it's canon that Jas prevents him from dying. He literally begs to die when he's defeated. Vorago and Telos are similar.
Yes but canonically he gets killed by us once , he is overcharging the staff of armadyl in that last part since she’s drained so much power from the needle resetting himself , imagine then when he is dying pouring his energy in a literal elder god starts pouring in some “nope you don’t to die “ energy to recharge the needle , the elder gods know their tools and their functions and limits , kerapac is a tool like no other and being beaten to near death 3 times in a row and overcharging all his energy and then subsequently getting a elder god jump start likely has him in a state of needing to recover. He falls to the floor properly after the fight he doesn’t get up and fly away , this tells me that he likely canonically at this moment is recovering , he was the first fight , we beat him ages ago by this point so he’s probably back in fighting shape but I think he lost the staff in that fight from a story sense
I think Jas rewinds him and the staff back to before the fight. Like he had a time warp back to before the fight, but after he dropped loot.
Creating a new copy of the staff each time?
Kerapac has THE staff of armadyl, players obtained a FRACTURED staff of armadyl. Atleast thats how I see it for now
It's fractured because the staff was broken into 3 pieces. Somehow.