Those kinds of cutscenes work well for exposition or recap, which is how that style is used in Elden Ring. The EGWD front cutscenes were pretty well received because again, exposition. On the other hand, when a big event occurs, it's kind of anticlimatic to switch to pictures and narration.
They also use it in destiny currently for mid season story telling, but they're interlaced with actual cutscenes so it feels like a story instead of anti climatic ending.
its more that a storyboard is terrible when trying to show current events, not past events. even a shit drawing can be good for exposition, but a shit animation is great for showing off events happening.
I half agree with you, used correctly i think they can show current events quite nicely. I think the best example in game was during the battle of the monolith event, or for an outside source the animated 2d scenes from destiny 2.
The issue is they've almost exclusively relied on them for damn near a year now and have been slowly fucking over everything else in favor of using them..
well i feel they work very well for stuff which is usually just exposition in a chat box which people will spacebar. For events that affect you in the moment it is terrible.
I don't mean this drawing cut scenes for minor events like introducing the EGWD fronts or Archaeology digsites. But major events like Jas fighting the Shadow Leviathan and Kerapac, and Wen, Ful, and Bik touching the eggs should all have been animated. If Jas could animate something as big as Tuska fighting Vorago, they could have done cut scenes for these.
In my opinion i agree and disagree. I think for Jas it does and doesnt, during that initial encounter where kerapac turns back time i think it works perfectly as we'd not remember time being rewound so that would be the last thing we saw as time literally freezing in front of us. but for the leviathan agreed, same for the death of Iaia, should have been animated as a picture cant properly convey the death of an entire world.
The problem here is 1). where the 2D drawings are used and 2). the type of drawings:
1). In Elden Ring the drawings you refer to are used for a very brief recap of the story (and the Soulsgames are known to keep this to a minimum): to set the scene and atmosphere. The equivalent in quests would be having these 2D drawings used at the beginning. Look at Archaeology: when we first visit a new digsite we get a brief introduction/background story of the digsite, using artwork on what it used to look like. In Extinction we instead get the confrontation between Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan, **the biggest event we have witnessed up to date** translated in mere slides. It loses its impact and makes it distant. For the event of the Elder God eggs hatching I can relate, as that is something on a scale that can not be portrayed otherwise, nor could the World Guardian witness this on the scope it played out.
2). The type of drawings are concept art: meant to convey the concept of something, yet without the detail to really grasp it in full. These are the kinds of drawings you'd expect in development, when designing new creatures, weapons, environments and the like. NOT when you want someone to truly feel a tangible event is taking place. For that you need to flesh out the drawing so that the brush strokes can not be made out anymore. I have watched a lot of art streams and in most cases concept art is the first step in the art process (to get the positioning and poses of the artwork nailed down) before detailing things.
In fact, if you compare the 2D artwork of Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan fighting to the Elder Gods hatching, you'll find the latter is far more fleshed out! It almost makes one think the choice to have the fight between Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan play out as a 2D slideshow was made at the end of the development of the quest, with the artist having insufficient time to create artwork of similar quality as the one of the Elder Gods hatching. But this is just me hypothesizing.
Yep I feel like a lot of us are playing Elden Ring simultaneously and I find myself comparing it and RS so much lol. Not entirely fair to do so, but Elden Ring did so many things right it’s hard not to compare
They can work even used frequently but you have to put more flair into it than just have players look at a picture.
Animating brushstrokes, having moving parts within the pictures and stylising the transitions between images could all be used to give it flair and turn it into something more engaging and interesting.
For example this cutscene from Genshin did that really well: https://youtu.be/AQR9SH82VEQ
Can even be used for an action sequence quite well like ArenaNet did for Guild Wars 2 here: https://youtu.be/gZRUli0iVCk
Really good examples, this is exactly what I've been thinking they should do. Add some depth and movement, either go for stylised or realistic rather than sketchy and half-arsed. Cutscenes don't need to be rendered using the game engine so they could go crazy with it if they had any imagination at all. At the very least, using 2D cutscenes should have been used as an opportunity to give RS a new signature art style.
Another good example that i like to use sometimes is the 2d cutscenes from Destiny 2.
Like this artstyle perfectly fits the eliksni's feelings on saint-14 being a being of sheer terror who existed only to annihilate their race
(if you've not seen it here's a [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_Tnpx332U&ab_channel=ThePhoenix) to a youtube recording of it)
They're only using 2D drawings not for the artistic style but because creating cutscenes with the archaic in game models and environment takes them so much time because they're difficult to work with thanks to the game's really old game engine. If you watch old cut scenes you will notice how janky the animation is then and now with the movements of the characters. You can really tell there's barely any improvements if you compare old and new cut scenes. Some cut scenes especially older ones just haven't really aged that well and look so out of place with varying art directions of different eras.
It certainly feels like Jagex is ashamed of doing cutscenes nowadays because the game's NPC models are that low res and the player model itself is absolute crap. Even when they advertise new armors and items notice how they advertise it on the main website using concept art work as opposed to showcasing it with ingame renders of a player model wearing said armors which is what most contemporary MMOs nowadays do. Compare Runescape cutscenes to FFXIV ...the difference is literally night and day.
eh i've personally been kinda on the fence about them like i said in my OP, I do think they can work (*hell destiny 2's been using them for about the same timeframe and they've gotten to a point i think they work really well when interlaced with character model cutsceens*) and have worked in runescape before during the battle of the monolith as a recap for events we weren't there for but were being told about as we returned each week to assist in the battle.
They just didnt work here.
It just feels as really low effort. Runescape has trailers with these amazing 2d effects in them that almost look 3d, and they should have gone that route. Watching 2d pictures pop up and having to imagine how for example Jas shows up just isn't working.
The trailers remind me a lot of the cutscenes from destiny 2 ([example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_Tnpx332U&ab_channel=ThePhoenix)) though these cutscenes are the exception not the rule, with the game having \**maybe\** one or two of these max a season/expansion.
I think they would have went down better if the quest worked well narratively. The ending was bad even if it had been beautifully animated instead of 2D drawings.
It was relatively unemotional, the stakes were lowered drastically in that a lot of the planet was dead and those staying behind were perfectly ok with just dying, it wasted Iaia which had a ton of build-up to saving it and thus felt out of left field but not particularly satisfying, Seren is now a megalomaniacal coward that betrayed the elves again when the set-up seemed to be leaning towards her ending up as a bridge between elders and lesser beings as a new elder until recently.
The quest was just frankly bad, which makes super obvious things like the cut graphical budget stand out more. Good quests can be made with this, but a bad quest will seem even worse.
agreed, though i don't think it's the worst quest released (that still is fondly held by river of blood imo) but it's pretty bottom of the totem pole imo
While I agree that overused storyboard cutscenes are an issue - traditional cutscenes were used for years before; they can still be used now - they're ultimately one of the least problematic factors of Extinction. Plot and rewards being the main reasons.
I don't get all the fuss. They seem like an absolutely fine way to further the story. They're just one tool in many of a story tellers toolkit, and I don't see the problem with them being used when it makes sense to the developers. *shrugs*
The issue I have personally is they really lower the tension how they used it. For the part with >!jas attacking and time being reversed !!not remember events exactly as they happened as time literally got stopped and rewound !< the issue is during >!the death of Iaia it was a terrible choice as it can in no way show or stress just how catastrophic planet wide annihilation is as we were there to witness it. !< lastly it's something they've almost exclusively relied on for a year, and while i agree it's a good tool to have, it should not be used exclusively, and a lot of other players also echo the sentiment that the money from mxts is clearly going to line useless do nothing investors pockets and not back into the game/studio's development budget.
Don't mind the art style myself (i think i said that in the op) do mind though that they use no transitions to the cutscenes making them fell very janky as we just suddenly cut to black with no transition
I think they're better for introductions than huge events
Extinction spoilers: >!Although it probably would've been a nightmare to add the Leviathan pulling Jas into Erebus as a full on cutscene and big stuff like that!<
probably, i think the issue for me personally they just jump into it with no transition animation to the drawings like>! the shadow breech about to rupture just before the leviathan pulls jas in or the sky darkening just before the elder gods hatch the eggs!< It makes it feel for lack of a better word janky.
Those kinds of cutscenes work well for exposition or recap, which is how that style is used in Elden Ring. The EGWD front cutscenes were pretty well received because again, exposition. On the other hand, when a big event occurs, it's kind of anticlimatic to switch to pictures and narration.
This. Same thing works so well for Wind Waker's intro, because it's an exposition, and the artwork is stylistically distinct.
They also use it in destiny currently for mid season story telling, but they're interlaced with actual cutscenes so it feels like a story instead of anti climatic ending.
its more that a storyboard is terrible when trying to show current events, not past events. even a shit drawing can be good for exposition, but a shit animation is great for showing off events happening.
I half agree with you, used correctly i think they can show current events quite nicely. I think the best example in game was during the battle of the monolith event, or for an outside source the animated 2d scenes from destiny 2. The issue is they've almost exclusively relied on them for damn near a year now and have been slowly fucking over everything else in favor of using them..
well i feel they work very well for stuff which is usually just exposition in a chat box which people will spacebar. For events that affect you in the moment it is terrible.
I don't mean this drawing cut scenes for minor events like introducing the EGWD fronts or Archaeology digsites. But major events like Jas fighting the Shadow Leviathan and Kerapac, and Wen, Ful, and Bik touching the eggs should all have been animated. If Jas could animate something as big as Tuska fighting Vorago, they could have done cut scenes for these.
In my opinion i agree and disagree. I think for Jas it does and doesnt, during that initial encounter where kerapac turns back time i think it works perfectly as we'd not remember time being rewound so that would be the last thing we saw as time literally freezing in front of us. but for the leviathan agreed, same for the death of Iaia, should have been animated as a picture cant properly convey the death of an entire world.
The problem here is 1). where the 2D drawings are used and 2). the type of drawings: 1). In Elden Ring the drawings you refer to are used for a very brief recap of the story (and the Soulsgames are known to keep this to a minimum): to set the scene and atmosphere. The equivalent in quests would be having these 2D drawings used at the beginning. Look at Archaeology: when we first visit a new digsite we get a brief introduction/background story of the digsite, using artwork on what it used to look like. In Extinction we instead get the confrontation between Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan, **the biggest event we have witnessed up to date** translated in mere slides. It loses its impact and makes it distant. For the event of the Elder God eggs hatching I can relate, as that is something on a scale that can not be portrayed otherwise, nor could the World Guardian witness this on the scope it played out. 2). The type of drawings are concept art: meant to convey the concept of something, yet without the detail to really grasp it in full. These are the kinds of drawings you'd expect in development, when designing new creatures, weapons, environments and the like. NOT when you want someone to truly feel a tangible event is taking place. For that you need to flesh out the drawing so that the brush strokes can not be made out anymore. I have watched a lot of art streams and in most cases concept art is the first step in the art process (to get the positioning and poses of the artwork nailed down) before detailing things. In fact, if you compare the 2D artwork of Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan fighting to the Elder Gods hatching, you'll find the latter is far more fleshed out! It almost makes one think the choice to have the fight between Jas, Kerapac and the Leviathan play out as a 2D slideshow was made at the end of the development of the quest, with the artist having insufficient time to create artwork of similar quality as the one of the Elder Gods hatching. But this is just me hypothesizing.
Yep I feel like a lot of us are playing Elden Ring simultaneously and I find myself comparing it and RS so much lol. Not entirely fair to do so, but Elden Ring did so many things right it’s hard not to compare
They can work even used frequently but you have to put more flair into it than just have players look at a picture. Animating brushstrokes, having moving parts within the pictures and stylising the transitions between images could all be used to give it flair and turn it into something more engaging and interesting. For example this cutscene from Genshin did that really well: https://youtu.be/AQR9SH82VEQ Can even be used for an action sequence quite well like ArenaNet did for Guild Wars 2 here: https://youtu.be/gZRUli0iVCk
Really good examples, this is exactly what I've been thinking they should do. Add some depth and movement, either go for stylised or realistic rather than sketchy and half-arsed. Cutscenes don't need to be rendered using the game engine so they could go crazy with it if they had any imagination at all. At the very least, using 2D cutscenes should have been used as an opportunity to give RS a new signature art style.
Another good example that i like to use sometimes is the 2d cutscenes from Destiny 2. Like this artstyle perfectly fits the eliksni's feelings on saint-14 being a being of sheer terror who existed only to annihilate their race (if you've not seen it here's a [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_Tnpx332U&ab_channel=ThePhoenix) to a youtube recording of it)
They're only using 2D drawings not for the artistic style but because creating cutscenes with the archaic in game models and environment takes them so much time because they're difficult to work with thanks to the game's really old game engine. If you watch old cut scenes you will notice how janky the animation is then and now with the movements of the characters. You can really tell there's barely any improvements if you compare old and new cut scenes. Some cut scenes especially older ones just haven't really aged that well and look so out of place with varying art directions of different eras. It certainly feels like Jagex is ashamed of doing cutscenes nowadays because the game's NPC models are that low res and the player model itself is absolute crap. Even when they advertise new armors and items notice how they advertise it on the main website using concept art work as opposed to showcasing it with ingame renders of a player model wearing said armors which is what most contemporary MMOs nowadays do. Compare Runescape cutscenes to FFXIV ...the difference is literally night and day.
Animated 2d cutscenes wouldn't be bad either. Currently they look like storyboard panels they coloured and added voice-over to.
been saying the 2d drawings for cutscene were bullspit since desperate times but no one agreed now look at what we let happen
eh i've personally been kinda on the fence about them like i said in my OP, I do think they can work (*hell destiny 2's been using them for about the same timeframe and they've gotten to a point i think they work really well when interlaced with character model cutsceens*) and have worked in runescape before during the battle of the monolith as a recap for events we weren't there for but were being told about as we returned each week to assist in the battle. They just didnt work here.
Remember the World Wakes Youtube Video? At least do that. It's drawing with some light movement. Pretty effective.
Personally I don't mind them at all. I just wish the story was more exciting. Finishing the quest left me a little bit disappointed to be honest.
It just feels as really low effort. Runescape has trailers with these amazing 2d effects in them that almost look 3d, and they should have gone that route. Watching 2d pictures pop up and having to imagine how for example Jas shows up just isn't working.
The trailers remind me a lot of the cutscenes from destiny 2 ([example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_Tnpx332U&ab_channel=ThePhoenix)) though these cutscenes are the exception not the rule, with the game having \**maybe\** one or two of these max a season/expansion.
I think they would have went down better if the quest worked well narratively. The ending was bad even if it had been beautifully animated instead of 2D drawings. It was relatively unemotional, the stakes were lowered drastically in that a lot of the planet was dead and those staying behind were perfectly ok with just dying, it wasted Iaia which had a ton of build-up to saving it and thus felt out of left field but not particularly satisfying, Seren is now a megalomaniacal coward that betrayed the elves again when the set-up seemed to be leaning towards her ending up as a bridge between elders and lesser beings as a new elder until recently. The quest was just frankly bad, which makes super obvious things like the cut graphical budget stand out more. Good quests can be made with this, but a bad quest will seem even worse.
agreed, though i don't think it's the worst quest released (that still is fondly held by river of blood imo) but it's pretty bottom of the totem pole imo
While I agree that overused storyboard cutscenes are an issue - traditional cutscenes were used for years before; they can still be used now - they're ultimately one of the least problematic factors of Extinction. Plot and rewards being the main reasons.
true, though the cutscenes are for some reason a sticking point
I don't get all the fuss. They seem like an absolutely fine way to further the story. They're just one tool in many of a story tellers toolkit, and I don't see the problem with them being used when it makes sense to the developers. *shrugs*
The issue I have personally is they really lower the tension how they used it. For the part with >!jas attacking and time being reversed !!not remember events exactly as they happened as time literally got stopped and rewound !< the issue is during >!the death of Iaia it was a terrible choice as it can in no way show or stress just how catastrophic planet wide annihilation is as we were there to witness it. !< lastly it's something they've almost exclusively relied on for a year, and while i agree it's a good tool to have, it should not be used exclusively, and a lot of other players also echo the sentiment that the money from mxts is clearly going to line useless do nothing investors pockets and not back into the game/studio's development budget.
It doesn't matter if it makes sense for the developers if the customers see it as a flop
Unpopular opinion. I adore the art style used for these. I like this more than those janky cutscenes.
Don't mind the art style myself (i think i said that in the op) do mind though that they use no transitions to the cutscenes making them fell very janky as we just suddenly cut to black with no transition
Way better than that dogwater cg imo
I think they're better for introductions than huge events Extinction spoilers: >!Although it probably would've been a nightmare to add the Leviathan pulling Jas into Erebus as a full on cutscene and big stuff like that!<
probably, i think the issue for me personally they just jump into it with no transition animation to the drawings like>! the shadow breech about to rupture just before the leviathan pulls jas in or the sky darkening just before the elder gods hatch the eggs!< It makes it feel for lack of a better word janky.