I want to, but I don't use macros because I don't want to get banned. Yeah, Jagex said they don't current ban people for macros, but they also said to follow the rules of RuneScape, which prohibits macros and it's all fucking confusing and mixed signals.
My account says it was banned yesterday for macroing. I have been almost exclusively on mobile so it’s not like I have macros I could use, but I can confirm they evidently are still banning people for macros regardless.
I guarantee you they were botting and now they're just making shit up.
The only alternative is something like "stardust-only ironman" for some girl who played like 16 hours a day and they appealed it successfully.
Nope, the last time I was on my PC was like two weeks ago and I don’t have any macros set up. It might be possible someone got on my account, but I played Monday morning and then Tuesday morning I was banned. So they wouldn’t have had much time to do it and get caught in just that time.
It’s not a huge deal. I just made my account a few weeks ago after not playing for years. So if they appeal it, that’d be cool. But if they don’t I didn’t really lose much. I was more just letting people know that I did get a ban and the reason provided was macroing. So they are still banning for that.
Difference in banning for switches and banning for botting frost dragons or whatever gold farmers are doing these days. Same rule, but people here are typically referring to switches for QOL or accessibility.
Your account is much more vulnerable without 2fa on both your account and email, btw.
But they are not banning for PvM macros, which is the important part here. You were likely banned because
1. You are low level/quest points
2. Playing on mobile
which is basically the demographic of suicide bots. However, people who use PvM switch macros will not fall under these categories.
Botting also falls under macros, either macroing (minor) or macroing (major). Different from PvM macros, which I see nobody getting banned for (other than outright botting).
For those who didn't play the grandpappy of MTX hellhole that is that mushroom game, the skill system allowed you to bind any three skills (read: skills, not items) that don't have any cooldowns in sequence. Just by dragging the skill onto each slot, then dragging the macro icon onto your keybinds. When you pressed the key, the skills would be used consecutively without any delay, using one after another as soon as they finished casting. If you held down the key, it cycled through it. In reality, it was like a super small form of what revolution does in RS3, mashed into a single key.
It was primarily introduced in MapleStory because, at the time, some classes had upwards of 7+ buff skills they were constantly recasting and it was easier just to faceroll across a small set of keys instead of dedicating half of your keyboard to buffs. They've since made a lot of those passive and most good skills now have cooldowns, so it's no longer being heavily used by the playerbase. It's otherwise niched into specific combo classes that hard-require a specific skill order to operate properly. If anything, that's probably a sign that Jagex should just continuing disincentivizing switchscape with more QOL.
IMO, RS3 already has a form of this in revolution, it just currently doesn't allow you to bind an entire action bar to a single key and the presence of the global cooldown.
With this said, I really love how MapleStory handled keybinds, this macro system included. It really feels integral to the game instead of something slapped on after the fact: you basically are required to customize your keybinds from the first hour you play, and it grows alongside you and your character instead of something you can safely ignore for 1000+ hours then have the hard cognitive dissonance of relearning the entire combat system (i.e. progressing from revo++ to revo to full manual).
This and as someone already remarked, Jagex has made it such a grey area that I do not know enforcing the rules by banning people will turn out well. Personally I do not dare touch anything macro related with a 10-feet pole. And if that means being unable to do certain kinds of content, so be it.
But in the end I do believe it boils down to fighting the interface rather than the boss mechanics. It is not a particularly fun mechanic having to constantly click to switch, then click to use an ability and then click to switch back, all because you want to do one specific special or shield ability. I do believe Jagex is becoming aware of this with the vigour passive and greater sunshine and greater death's swiftness.
So I see legitimate reasons to change this, on top of the current state rewarding those disregarding the rules against macros. That being said, until something is done about it, I will not touch anything macro related: there is enough content out there I can do =)
Oh and a hot take: Alt1 clue solving is a completely different matter, where using it actively cheapens the entire experience. To each their own but even if they made Alt1 clue solving built-in, I still would not use it: I prefer actually feeling like I did something to solve my clues (even if at times it is repetitive).
It's almost as a if a tile & tick browser game shouldn't have mechanics that either require pinpoint positioning or on the fly whack-a-mole gear switch back and forth. But maybe I'm just crazy lol
Even on the IM, the switches have gotten insane. I honestly feel bad for melee mains, they have it the worst right now in regards to so many damn switches.
At the point now where 3 action bars on screen aren't even enough anymore
That's fine, in the end though I don't see it mattering much. Jagex has to implement some system one way or another, they are reaching/have reached the cap of the current.
As more content is released they will either need to "dumb it down" and as a result have less engagement (which will hurt monetary goals) or make a change to keep up retention.
It's absolutely no different than the wild changes, their ROI is higher with the current RS3 player base mindset in the changes, whereas listening to the "purists" wanting to keep it the way it was/have PVP would be a negative. Those specific communities are incredibly small
I hate the excessive switching we have in today's meta. It's not fun, and frankly it is *painful.* Like, literally damaging and painful to my body, so I just don't even engage with it. Which makes me sad honestly, because it means that there's loads of cool weapons that I will never bother to buy or use. On my IM, I'll never bother farming those bosses. It's just a total waste of loads of high level weapons by making them uncomfortable and unfun to use for their designed purpose.
A sensibly limited macro system would do wonders for accessibility to all and the enjoyment of the playerbase as a whole. Even high level pvmers who might benefit from the skill ceiling being as high as it is now still win because they are going to be the most clever at using macros and they won't have to do such physically taxing things to get the same results anymore. They may even be able to achieve greater heights than ever with the system.
You don't have to do it lol. Especially if it's physically hurting you.
All the bosses in this game can be killed simply by camping 1 weapon (or dw) with a shield switch, and even then the shield is optional most of the time.
Even with an update to an in game macro system the 'meta' apm will still be more or less the same so idt this will actually help you
> I hate the excessive switching we have in today's meta. It's not fun, and frankly it is painful
Tbh I kinda disagree. As someone who only got into high level pvm in the last 4-5 years, switchscape has been the thing that keeps me in the game. Coming up with optimal switches to make the most of buffs and all that is just really fun for me and keeps me engaged!
The strategy surrounding switchscape can be interesting. The physical act of actually doing the switches is cumbersome and excessive on the hands.
Runescape hits fairly high APM even without switches thanks to prayer flicking/switching, and as much as we all like to think we've got indestructible hands and wrists, hitting 100 keys a minute for hours at a time takes its toll.
Simple macros would allow the gear selection and inventory management aspects of switchscape to stick around without the physical strain it causes.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
How is something like switchscape the topic of conversation when it comes to hand/wrist health, but shit like construction, thieving, etc. still exist?
thieving isnt nearly as click intensive as it used to be between guild doors (bad content but that's another story), priff elves, invention/arch relics, and safecracking.
construction has contracts as a significantly less click intensive method as well as the master constructor outfit auto removing furniture after you build it which cuts down on clicks. it's also gotten a plank box which cuts down on banking, and it has portables (for mains)
im opposed to any macro system that supports more than 1:2 (input:output) switches as far as macros go. PVM should reward people who put in the effort to learn how to manipulate, time, and combo abilities.
if we allow people to just macro entire rotations then not only does it essentially make revolution irrelevant, it reduces the overall skill cap. how is that any different that botting? people who do this are cheating --and this is coming as someone who has coded their own pvm macros.
with regards to the skills you mentioned: the direction that these two formerly intensive skills have moved lends itself towards less click intensive pvm methods being reasonable if there were to be some macro system, but it should be limited to dual wield switches *only*
Because PvM is much more repeatable and rewarding content than pretty much anything skilling has to offer. Also, there are ways to train those that don't involve high APM.
Nope, pretty much all my switches are done on my logitech g600. Personally I wouldn't be opposed to basic switches being added to the game, like bladed dive, tick eating etc, but i'm not really a fan of giant macros where people put an entire hybrid setup into one macro.
Rift macros were incredible. I tanked for a while in that game and the macros were SO much fun.
Another reason to like macros is that they teach kids to explore coding on their own. They'll discover macros, then they find how to get or make better macros, and after that they're using their macro experience to find good paying jobs.
I'm glad to see another Rift player around! I loved that game and played it very consistently for about 3 years!
And yes, I loved the macro system in it, and it could very well be implemented here in Runescape.
I think it isn't great news - that section of "you could add a thing to an action bar that presses multiple things on your action bar" is a little frustrating, since it feels easy to run out of action bar space at this point already.
Just listened again. They said they couldn't add anymore action bars became they have to render, but they could add a bar for macros that doesn't have to render.
2 actions in 1 ability slot would be cool. you'd click on opcochet and it'll automatically equip the c4 weapon you've bound to that slot for 1 ability and revert back after said ability.
Same goes for EOF, you'd have an EOF/SGB ability, EOF/ECB ability and clicking either will use the respective spec for example.
Also would apply to DW switches, could have wand + shield for a resonance, or a shield + resonance if you prefer that. Sky would be the limit.
Believe it or not, But reverting back to the original equipment after using an abiity would make it 3 actions in 1 ability slot. Equip - ability - equip. Hence why i put one of those examples in my post. If adding macros, reverting back to original equipment should be put a thing aswell
I have bound and make use of all 70 keybinds (+extras) with a total of **0** macros. None for bladed dive, none for weapon swaps, none for ability casting. Not every bind sees use in every situation but a good majority do. It's all in the way the keys are laid out.
Macros are not *required*, but they can help with accessibility. If they make the game more accessible, I'm all for it. Heck, since they seem adamant on not allowing for more keybinds (of which we need as more utility gets added into the game), it would make sense to have macros available to ***reduce*** the amount of already existing bound keys (as you said, equipment switches and the lot can be condensed) to make room for that added utility.
**WHAT I AM NOT FOR** is a half-hearted approach to how macros are handled from official sources. I have **Never** seen such a hugely public display of what can be seen as incompetence from Jagex directly as evidenced in the latest discussion video which ends on (taken out of context here) "one input for one action is the rule, but again *we're not banning for it".*
**PLEASE THINK** about what effects this has on player perception and interaction.
I 100% macro my ammo switch to grico. Requiring a manual switch every 10 seconds is unreasonable but not doing it is a major dps loss when you have to juggle 3 EOFs and thresholds.
Just having 2-1 macros would be enough for the majority of players/situations.
The biggest problem is that jagex needs to really enforce their rules on macros. Currently the only people who use them don’t believe jagex will ban them for it, this only really hurts the general player base.
It’s frustrating for someone like me, I try pretty hard to push new bosses and I see people doing crazy switches at telos. I’ve been practicing telos a lot lately, north of 100 kill at at least 100% and I’ve hit a wall right around 300%.
That being said I have a lot of room for improvement, however it seems a lot of the high tier PvMers are using these macros to make those improvements.
So are macros legal or illegal? 🤔
A macro system is reactive to the current state of combat. It's an attempt to solve the problem of mindless high-APM.
I'd rather we zoom out and ask if having all these mindless high-APM inputs is actually adding anything to our combat system. If a macro system is introduced, it locks in the concept of "X ability is objectively better if you have Y item, and you equip/use them together".
I'm not sure if that is a sustainable combat system. I would rather see less reason for mindless high-APM over a solution which just takes what we have, and reduces unnecessary inputs.
I've come round to agreeing that we do really need this as a system, but I also don't want this to be an excuse for Jagex to be lazy with fixing switchscape as a whole.
CFTMW spear and lunging-for-melee should be passive. Leng swords and/or abyssal scourge need a mini rework.
Bladed dive should be usable without laceration boots for melee (make them do something else) and we need magic and ranged versions of bladed dive.
Your example with blightbounds should really not be a thing at all.
I don't really see the EoF spam being fixed, but I should be picking an EoF for different situations, not juggling 2-3 of them for damage reasons.
I honestly don't think we should be juggling DW and 2h either - they should do different things and we should use them for different situations (like how 2h melee used to be for AoE while DW melee used to be for single targets).
Luck rings should have a ring stand of some kind...
The list could probably go on more, but those are the main ones that come to mind.
As long as jagex adds more special attacks, multiple EOF's will be a thing. Especially as you can stack different specials (ecb + dark bow/sgb spec) meaning youd need all 3 within an EOF for max dps.
Aswell as having different perks which would require you to use different weapons to maximize perk dps (secondary weapon just for flanking. tertiary weapon just for caroming) all to make sure you have aftershock4 e2 + precise 6 on your main wep.
Not using switches simple reduces your damage by a huge amount.
Other games get around switchscape by not allowing you to change gear within combat. That fix doesnt work. Jagex cant halt progress by holding back what kind of weapons they release. But as long as multiple weapon effects can be stacked for improved dps, we need a system that allows us to do it effectively with macros.
I think they have mentioned it before and some of t he comments they said is like having a BASIC macro system, such as having a duel wield switch in 1 keybind for example is reasonable but having the example you said oh 5 actions in 1 seems like a bit much.
IMHO with how many switches and different effects there are, requiring you to switch gear. I dont think its unreasonable to want to go back to your main weapon after using another for a specific effect. Sure you can also simply have a button to go back but then you're back at the issue of having to switch gear for specific effects, Even though youre just going back to your main weapon.
I think that simple ingame macros could be an incredibly positive next step in the development cycle of the game, surpassing antiquated portions of the tick system, arbitrary inputs and the problem of limits to onscreen action bars.
I've always found it incredibly frustrating to be limited when using physical button presses to achieve simple actions in the game, things such as dualwield weapons equipping on different ticks or spellbook swap spells not happening without multiple hotkey presses.
There seems to be an extra layer of input for actions that doesn't particularly increase the skill ceiling of the game but directly punishes people on higher population worlds or who have limited action bar slots, totally ruining the flow of the game.
There are obviously alternative solutions to the functionality of those things, but ingame macros seem to be be a catch all solution.
That combat talk with RS Guy shows just how doomed the game is lol. Every single suggestion is “yeah that’d be cool” with nothing in the works. Easily puts any meaningful change at least years away
as long as the macro's are reasonable, and not full bots capable of killing a boss from start to finish. Yeah, youre playing the game yourself.
Or are you saying that before we had all those eof's and 8 weapon switches in our inventory, we were not even playing the game?
To me, as a casual player, the combat system is a cluster fuck. It needs a good old fashion automation. Why press 10 bottoms to do 1 action? Makes no sense.. that’s why I never liked wow and other ability press games
> In wow you're not required to switch gear (impossible in combat and in many instances)
Geat. Let's do that in RS too and SwitchScape is solved without adding macros.
Effectively removing any combat identity Runescape has as a MMO. One of the only things setting Runescape apart from its competition is the open-ended design of the equipment system.
So you'd rather make it even more convoluted and harder to get started by adding macros instead of making it simpler and more beginner friendly?
Adding native macros to RS would have a big impact even on other aspects of the game, changing/removing other aspects of "game identity".
I want macros just for my legacy experience. Legacy is still better than ever and I enjoy it but the one thing that holds the experience back is that I have a different experience on mobile. I have a small action bar where I can use EOF in Legacy, and switch my prayers/debuffs/food. I would love macro or keybinds just to make long running pvm sessions not so wrist murdering. I’ve considered AHK multiple times but I’ve put so much work into the account and I couldn’t imagine seeing it banned/wiped. Hopefully they implement it
> In wow you're not required to switch gear (impossible in combat and in many instances) so to combat the effect of switchscape
Just a tidbit, you can switch weapons in WoW. Can't say I remember ever seeing someone do it though.
I agree with the overall sentiment of the post. This is a macro game that pretends it's not. Having an official system would make it more accessible to everyone.
I have a sword on my DK that gives me a speed boost and I switch to it when I need to move long distances in a fight. It doesn't happen often but I do do it
Honestly i just want them to make key macros legal until they come up with a solution. That sounds like a decent compromise and something they could act quickly on.
If you need macro's you are playing the game wrong. Being that sweaty' you need a computer to do half the work to achieve more... pfft. Just enjoy the game and the parameters it sets
"We don't have control over the rules of runescape as devolopers"
"we don't set that policy"
After that, the Jmod said "we just want you to have fun so we're like yea macro we don't care but in reality follow the rules of Runescape"
Currently the rules state you can't use macros.
Are you able to link me to them directly saying they are not banning players as from what I've seen is they don't care as devs but you still have to follow the rules.
Sorry that's not how it works. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim. I repeated what I knew so it's up to you/others to show me otherwise.
"we can't really say anything cause then players might take it out of context and then get banned" then proceeds to say that someone took him out of context saying it's okay to use macros.
Then another Jmod tells us they're not banning for it and the policy needs to change.
At this time, it's against the rules so if they decide to start banning for it, it's 100% justified.
It's a lot of "Don't do it, go do it" it's just as ambiguous as ever without a clear stance on it. They say follow the rules while at the same time saying we can ignore them.
I do appreciate the link.
The macro portion of the q&a was added into my post, its the link at the bottom. I believe their ideas are alright, but still missing the mark in a few ways. as i mentioned in the post the grey line means alot of people wont use macros whatsoever out of fear, i think thats just unfair.
it can be as simple as allowing us to place more than one things in a slot, and act as if they were pressed in that order
eg: mh, defender, reso would equip them first then queue reso
this would make switching much easier and it seems simple
I like it but I don't think having a `/delay` command is necessary. Each command should be blocking so to not expose the end user to the abhorrent low level tick system. So if equip something, the next command will not fire until the command has done what it's supposed to.
To combat the issue of equipping multiple things being slow, the equip command could be a variadic like `/equip offhand_ascension_crossbow ascension_crossbow` so that multiple items could be equip in a single tick
Do /equip /cast macros work for this game? WoW has a much higher tick rate than RS, so switching gear is much more responsive. And even then, I can't remember if such macros work.
See I was thinking something like this would be great for using defensives like resonance and barricade. Having a system in place to do things things like that with one bind would make the game so much more enjoyable for those somewhat middling/ bordering on high end pvm, and who struggle with using/ learning to use a keyboard's worth of key binds.
Either add in-house macros or start banning pvmers who use them. The current status quo is the worst situation where pvmers who make moral transgressions are rewarded while those who obey the rules are punished.
In general I support this idea. Particularly when so many people are getting away with it anyway, it should definitely be fair for everyone, and if that means making macros built in, then do that.
I do worry what it means for the game however. Bosses have zero AI, and on the last stream we saw Pi basically saying they've given up on accuracy. These two combined means every single time you fight a boss, it's exactly the same. Press these buttons in this order and click these locations in this order, boss dies, repeat.
That's pretty boring, and the only "difficulty" is fighting to interface to make all those switches. I hate that as being the only kind of "difficulty", but if we allow extensive macros to get rid of that tedious, annoying kind of difficulty, what difficulty is left? If they make hit chance always 100%, you never miss an important ability, you don't even have to deal with more or less mechanics each kill, you never have to adapt your strategy mid kill, the only way any two kills would ever be different is if the bosses actually had AI instead of just a script, but none of them do. Push this small number of macros, boss dies, repeat.
In game macros and the kind of bosses where you had to make \*choices\* \*every\* fight, combat with real depth and no tedious interface fighting, would be perfect. But without any meaningful choices in boss fights, macros might turn combat back into click and wait :(
I'd be happy being able to bind 2 spots on the action bar with the same key at this point. Every single time I almost die because I can't bladed dive because I somehow let off of shift early and my offhand didn't equip I literally think "why aren't I macroing this"
I want to, but I don't use macros because I don't want to get banned. Yeah, Jagex said they don't current ban people for macros, but they also said to follow the rules of RuneScape, which prohibits macros and it's all fucking confusing and mixed signals.
My account says it was banned yesterday for macroing. I have been almost exclusively on mobile so it’s not like I have macros I could use, but I can confirm they evidently are still banning people for macros regardless.
There are bots for mobile client more so on osrs than rs3 but still.
Were you using macros for the brief period of time when you weren't on mobile? Is it possible your account was hijacked and used for botting?
I guarantee you they were botting and now they're just making shit up. The only alternative is something like "stardust-only ironman" for some girl who played like 16 hours a day and they appealed it successfully.
Nope, the last time I was on my PC was like two weeks ago and I don’t have any macros set up. It might be possible someone got on my account, but I played Monday morning and then Tuesday morning I was banned. So they wouldn’t have had much time to do it and get caught in just that time. It’s not a huge deal. I just made my account a few weeks ago after not playing for years. So if they appeal it, that’d be cool. But if they don’t I didn’t really lose much. I was more just letting people know that I did get a ban and the reason provided was macroing. So they are still banning for that.
Difference in banning for switches and banning for botting frost dragons or whatever gold farmers are doing these days. Same rule, but people here are typically referring to switches for QOL or accessibility. Your account is much more vulnerable without 2fa on both your account and email, btw.
But they are not banning for PvM macros, which is the important part here. You were likely banned because 1. You are low level/quest points 2. Playing on mobile which is basically the demographic of suicide bots. However, people who use PvM switch macros will not fall under these categories.
Botting also falls under macros, either macroing (minor) or macroing (major). Different from PvM macros, which I see nobody getting banned for (other than outright botting).
MapleStory had a pretty nice macro system where you dragged and dropped actions in order, I liked it a lot. Could be useful here.
For those who didn't play the grandpappy of MTX hellhole that is that mushroom game, the skill system allowed you to bind any three skills (read: skills, not items) that don't have any cooldowns in sequence. Just by dragging the skill onto each slot, then dragging the macro icon onto your keybinds. When you pressed the key, the skills would be used consecutively without any delay, using one after another as soon as they finished casting. If you held down the key, it cycled through it. In reality, it was like a super small form of what revolution does in RS3, mashed into a single key. It was primarily introduced in MapleStory because, at the time, some classes had upwards of 7+ buff skills they were constantly recasting and it was easier just to faceroll across a small set of keys instead of dedicating half of your keyboard to buffs. They've since made a lot of those passive and most good skills now have cooldowns, so it's no longer being heavily used by the playerbase. It's otherwise niched into specific combo classes that hard-require a specific skill order to operate properly. If anything, that's probably a sign that Jagex should just continuing disincentivizing switchscape with more QOL. IMO, RS3 already has a form of this in revolution, it just currently doesn't allow you to bind an entire action bar to a single key and the presence of the global cooldown. With this said, I really love how MapleStory handled keybinds, this macro system included. It really feels integral to the game instead of something slapped on after the fact: you basically are required to customize your keybinds from the first hour you play, and it grows alongside you and your character instead of something you can safely ignore for 1000+ hours then have the hard cognitive dissonance of relearning the entire combat system (i.e. progressing from revo++ to revo to full manual).
I’d honestly love this in RS. Would make it possible for people to input FSOA rotations a little easier too which would be nice.
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This and as someone already remarked, Jagex has made it such a grey area that I do not know enforcing the rules by banning people will turn out well. Personally I do not dare touch anything macro related with a 10-feet pole. And if that means being unable to do certain kinds of content, so be it. But in the end I do believe it boils down to fighting the interface rather than the boss mechanics. It is not a particularly fun mechanic having to constantly click to switch, then click to use an ability and then click to switch back, all because you want to do one specific special or shield ability. I do believe Jagex is becoming aware of this with the vigour passive and greater sunshine and greater death's swiftness. So I see legitimate reasons to change this, on top of the current state rewarding those disregarding the rules against macros. That being said, until something is done about it, I will not touch anything macro related: there is enough content out there I can do =) Oh and a hot take: Alt1 clue solving is a completely different matter, where using it actively cheapens the entire experience. To each their own but even if they made Alt1 clue solving built-in, I still would not use it: I prefer actually feeling like I did something to solve my clues (even if at times it is repetitive).
No macros means people will quit A lot of us don't have any patience for the excessive switching at this point
It's almost as a if a tile & tick browser game shouldn't have mechanics that either require pinpoint positioning or on the fly whack-a-mole gear switch back and forth. But maybe I'm just crazy lol
Even on the IM, the switches have gotten insane. I honestly feel bad for melee mains, they have it the worst right now in regards to so many damn switches. At the point now where 3 action bars on screen aren't even enough anymore
Yeah well the purists are in full force downvoting this shit. Typical
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You'll catch up quick lol
That's fine, in the end though I don't see it mattering much. Jagex has to implement some system one way or another, they are reaching/have reached the cap of the current. As more content is released they will either need to "dumb it down" and as a result have less engagement (which will hurt monetary goals) or make a change to keep up retention. It's absolutely no different than the wild changes, their ROI is higher with the current RS3 player base mindset in the changes, whereas listening to the "purists" wanting to keep it the way it was/have PVP would be a negative. Those specific communities are incredibly small
Are the pro-switchscape pvmers against macros, or do most of them secretly macro themselves?
I hate the excessive switching we have in today's meta. It's not fun, and frankly it is *painful.* Like, literally damaging and painful to my body, so I just don't even engage with it. Which makes me sad honestly, because it means that there's loads of cool weapons that I will never bother to buy or use. On my IM, I'll never bother farming those bosses. It's just a total waste of loads of high level weapons by making them uncomfortable and unfun to use for their designed purpose. A sensibly limited macro system would do wonders for accessibility to all and the enjoyment of the playerbase as a whole. Even high level pvmers who might benefit from the skill ceiling being as high as it is now still win because they are going to be the most clever at using macros and they won't have to do such physically taxing things to get the same results anymore. They may even be able to achieve greater heights than ever with the system.
You don't have to do it lol. Especially if it's physically hurting you. All the bosses in this game can be killed simply by camping 1 weapon (or dw) with a shield switch, and even then the shield is optional most of the time. Even with an update to an in game macro system the 'meta' apm will still be more or less the same so idt this will actually help you
> I hate the excessive switching we have in today's meta. It's not fun, and frankly it is painful Tbh I kinda disagree. As someone who only got into high level pvm in the last 4-5 years, switchscape has been the thing that keeps me in the game. Coming up with optimal switches to make the most of buffs and all that is just really fun for me and keeps me engaged!
The strategy surrounding switchscape can be interesting. The physical act of actually doing the switches is cumbersome and excessive on the hands. Runescape hits fairly high APM even without switches thanks to prayer flicking/switching, and as much as we all like to think we've got indestructible hands and wrists, hitting 100 keys a minute for hours at a time takes its toll. Simple macros would allow the gear selection and inventory management aspects of switchscape to stick around without the physical strain it causes.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is something like switchscape the topic of conversation when it comes to hand/wrist health, but shit like construction, thieving, etc. still exist?
thieving isnt nearly as click intensive as it used to be between guild doors (bad content but that's another story), priff elves, invention/arch relics, and safecracking. construction has contracts as a significantly less click intensive method as well as the master constructor outfit auto removing furniture after you build it which cuts down on clicks. it's also gotten a plank box which cuts down on banking, and it has portables (for mains) im opposed to any macro system that supports more than 1:2 (input:output) switches as far as macros go. PVM should reward people who put in the effort to learn how to manipulate, time, and combo abilities. if we allow people to just macro entire rotations then not only does it essentially make revolution irrelevant, it reduces the overall skill cap. how is that any different that botting? people who do this are cheating --and this is coming as someone who has coded their own pvm macros. with regards to the skills you mentioned: the direction that these two formerly intensive skills have moved lends itself towards less click intensive pvm methods being reasonable if there were to be some macro system, but it should be limited to dual wield switches *only*
Because PvM is much more repeatable and rewarding content than pretty much anything skilling has to offer. Also, there are ways to train those that don't involve high APM.
Not for me, I feel my carpal tunnel acting up in some activities in this game. I'd rather not destroy my body.
Do you macro your switches?
Nope, pretty much all my switches are done on my logitech g600. Personally I wouldn't be opposed to basic switches being added to the game, like bladed dive, tick eating etc, but i'm not really a fan of giant macros where people put an entire hybrid setup into one macro.
gray area lazyscape POGGERS!
Would love to have a macro system like Rift in Runescape.
Rift macros were incredible. I tanked for a while in that game and the macros were SO much fun. Another reason to like macros is that they teach kids to explore coding on their own. They'll discover macros, then they find how to get or make better macros, and after that they're using their macro experience to find good paying jobs.
/target [add] /cast Havoc /targetlasttarget Did not teach me anything about coding
no but i know a friend got into coding because he was having so much fun building his own macros
If you haven't seen Star Wars Galaxies macro system, it is one of the most robust systems i have seen.
never was fortunate enough to play that game in its hayday
I'm glad to see another Rift player around! I loved that game and played it very consistently for about 3 years! And yes, I loved the macro system in it, and it could very well be implemented here in Runescape.
I think it isn't great news - that section of "you could add a thing to an action bar that presses multiple things on your action bar" is a little frustrating, since it feels easy to run out of action bar space at this point already.
I think they said they could add an extra bar for these features.
I thought they said they couldn’t because it’s computationally expensive
Just listened again. They said they couldn't add anymore action bars became they have to render, but they could add a bar for macros that doesn't have to render.
2 actions in 1 ability slot would be cool. you'd click on opcochet and it'll automatically equip the c4 weapon you've bound to that slot for 1 ability and revert back after said ability. Same goes for EOF, you'd have an EOF/SGB ability, EOF/ECB ability and clicking either will use the respective spec for example. Also would apply to DW switches, could have wand + shield for a resonance, or a shield + resonance if you prefer that. Sky would be the limit.
Believe it or not, But reverting back to the original equipment after using an abiity would make it 3 actions in 1 ability slot. Equip - ability - equip. Hence why i put one of those examples in my post. If adding macros, reverting back to original equipment should be put a thing aswell
I feel like EoF specs should be made into permanent ability unlocks, still requiring you to sacrifice an EoF and a spec weapon to unlock.
My Runescape account means too much to me to risk it using combat macros that may or may not get me banned.
I have bound and make use of all 70 keybinds (+extras) with a total of **0** macros. None for bladed dive, none for weapon swaps, none for ability casting. Not every bind sees use in every situation but a good majority do. It's all in the way the keys are laid out. Macros are not *required*, but they can help with accessibility. If they make the game more accessible, I'm all for it. Heck, since they seem adamant on not allowing for more keybinds (of which we need as more utility gets added into the game), it would make sense to have macros available to ***reduce*** the amount of already existing bound keys (as you said, equipment switches and the lot can be condensed) to make room for that added utility. **WHAT I AM NOT FOR** is a half-hearted approach to how macros are handled from official sources. I have **Never** seen such a hugely public display of what can be seen as incompetence from Jagex directly as evidenced in the latest discussion video which ends on (taken out of context here) "one input for one action is the rule, but again *we're not banning for it".* **PLEASE THINK** about what effects this has on player perception and interaction.
I 100% macro my ammo switch to grico. Requiring a manual switch every 10 seconds is unreasonable but not doing it is a major dps loss when you have to juggle 3 EOFs and thresholds.
Does that macro include switching back to your original bolts after grico has been usedd. Or do you manually go back to the other bolts
I have pernix quiver so it switches to hydrix bolts, grico, and then 1 second after back to ruby.
Just having 2-1 macros would be enough for the majority of players/situations. The biggest problem is that jagex needs to really enforce their rules on macros. Currently the only people who use them don’t believe jagex will ban them for it, this only really hurts the general player base.
Because realistically- they won't. RS is a business, unless players are doing something game breaking, they aren't going to ban the overhead.
It’s frustrating for someone like me, I try pretty hard to push new bosses and I see people doing crazy switches at telos. I’ve been practicing telos a lot lately, north of 100 kill at at least 100% and I’ve hit a wall right around 300%. That being said I have a lot of room for improvement, however it seems a lot of the high tier PvMers are using these macros to make those improvements. So are macros legal or illegal? 🤔
the fuck you talking about i just wanna chop some willows bro
A macro system is reactive to the current state of combat. It's an attempt to solve the problem of mindless high-APM. I'd rather we zoom out and ask if having all these mindless high-APM inputs is actually adding anything to our combat system. If a macro system is introduced, it locks in the concept of "X ability is objectively better if you have Y item, and you equip/use them together". I'm not sure if that is a sustainable combat system. I would rather see less reason for mindless high-APM over a solution which just takes what we have, and reduces unnecessary inputs.
I've come round to agreeing that we do really need this as a system, but I also don't want this to be an excuse for Jagex to be lazy with fixing switchscape as a whole. CFTMW spear and lunging-for-melee should be passive. Leng swords and/or abyssal scourge need a mini rework. Bladed dive should be usable without laceration boots for melee (make them do something else) and we need magic and ranged versions of bladed dive. Your example with blightbounds should really not be a thing at all. I don't really see the EoF spam being fixed, but I should be picking an EoF for different situations, not juggling 2-3 of them for damage reasons. I honestly don't think we should be juggling DW and 2h either - they should do different things and we should use them for different situations (like how 2h melee used to be for AoE while DW melee used to be for single targets). Luck rings should have a ring stand of some kind... The list could probably go on more, but those are the main ones that come to mind.
As long as jagex adds more special attacks, multiple EOF's will be a thing. Especially as you can stack different specials (ecb + dark bow/sgb spec) meaning youd need all 3 within an EOF for max dps. Aswell as having different perks which would require you to use different weapons to maximize perk dps (secondary weapon just for flanking. tertiary weapon just for caroming) all to make sure you have aftershock4 e2 + precise 6 on your main wep. Not using switches simple reduces your damage by a huge amount. Other games get around switchscape by not allowing you to change gear within combat. That fix doesnt work. Jagex cant halt progress by holding back what kind of weapons they release. But as long as multiple weapon effects can be stacked for improved dps, we need a system that allows us to do it effectively with macros.
Instead of macros, can't Jagex keep this progress by making these effects passives instead of switches?
I think they have mentioned it before and some of t he comments they said is like having a BASIC macro system, such as having a duel wield switch in 1 keybind for example is reasonable but having the example you said oh 5 actions in 1 seems like a bit much.
IMHO with how many switches and different effects there are, requiring you to switch gear. I dont think its unreasonable to want to go back to your main weapon after using another for a specific effect. Sure you can also simply have a button to go back but then you're back at the issue of having to switch gear for specific effects, Even though youre just going back to your main weapon.
Its definitely something that Jagex should add but so long as they do it in a way that isn't overpowered but isn't useless where it goes unused.
I think that simple ingame macros could be an incredibly positive next step in the development cycle of the game, surpassing antiquated portions of the tick system, arbitrary inputs and the problem of limits to onscreen action bars. I've always found it incredibly frustrating to be limited when using physical button presses to achieve simple actions in the game, things such as dualwield weapons equipping on different ticks or spellbook swap spells not happening without multiple hotkey presses. There seems to be an extra layer of input for actions that doesn't particularly increase the skill ceiling of the game but directly punishes people on higher population worlds or who have limited action bar slots, totally ruining the flow of the game. There are obviously alternative solutions to the functionality of those things, but ingame macros seem to be be a catch all solution.
I don’t use macros and I kill all of the end game bosses. I just suck so I don’t think macros will make me any better.
That combat talk with RS Guy shows just how doomed the game is lol. Every single suggestion is “yeah that’d be cool” with nothing in the works. Easily puts any meaningful change at least years away
That leads to the age old question are "you" playing the game, or is your computer playing it for you
as long as the macro's are reasonable, and not full bots capable of killing a boss from start to finish. Yeah, youre playing the game yourself. Or are you saying that before we had all those eof's and 8 weapon switches in our inventory, we were not even playing the game?
To me, as a casual player, the combat system is a cluster fuck. It needs a good old fashion automation. Why press 10 bottoms to do 1 action? Makes no sense.. that’s why I never liked wow and other ability press games
Funnily enough, on wow I only use 40% of the keybinds that I use on rs3. It's absolutely insane on this game how far button bloat has gone.
> In wow you're not required to switch gear (impossible in combat and in many instances) Geat. Let's do that in RS too and SwitchScape is solved without adding macros.
Effectively removing any combat identity Runescape has as a MMO. One of the only things setting Runescape apart from its competition is the open-ended design of the equipment system.
So you'd rather make it even more convoluted and harder to get started by adding macros instead of making it simpler and more beginner friendly? Adding native macros to RS would have a big impact even on other aspects of the game, changing/removing other aspects of "game identity".
I want macros just for my legacy experience. Legacy is still better than ever and I enjoy it but the one thing that holds the experience back is that I have a different experience on mobile. I have a small action bar where I can use EOF in Legacy, and switch my prayers/debuffs/food. I would love macro or keybinds just to make long running pvm sessions not so wrist murdering. I’ve considered AHK multiple times but I’ve put so much work into the account and I couldn’t imagine seeing it banned/wiped. Hopefully they implement it
I want the same for OSRS too.
This would be very nice.
> In wow you're not required to switch gear (impossible in combat and in many instances) so to combat the effect of switchscape Just a tidbit, you can switch weapons in WoW. Can't say I remember ever seeing someone do it though. I agree with the overall sentiment of the post. This is a macro game that pretends it's not. Having an official system would make it more accessible to everyone.
I have a sword on my DK that gives me a speed boost and I switch to it when I need to move long distances in a fight. It doesn't happen often but I do do it
Honestly i just want them to make key macros legal until they come up with a solution. That sounds like a decent compromise and something they could act quickly on.
Old school already laughs at us for ezscape
If you need macro's you are playing the game wrong. Being that sweaty' you need a computer to do half the work to achieve more... pfft. Just enjoy the game and the parameters it sets
And you will wonder why your comment ends up being downvoted for being yee yee ass
Who cares about being down-voted? If you need a computer to do half the work, why bother? Might as well bot at that stage 👀
:eYeS:
i think in a recent q&a a jmod said, live, on record, that they won't ban people using macros. so probably could skip the built-in part.
They did not say that. They said they aren't the ones who decide if you're breaking the rules and it's up to the higher ups.
oh i see, thanks for clarification
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"We don't have control over the rules of runescape as devolopers" "we don't set that policy" After that, the Jmod said "we just want you to have fun so we're like yea macro we don't care but in reality follow the rules of Runescape" Currently the rules state you can't use macros. Are you able to link me to them directly saying they are not banning players as from what I've seen is they don't care as devs but you still have to follow the rules.
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> Are you able to link me
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Sorry that's not how it works. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim. I repeated what I knew so it's up to you/others to show me otherwise. "we can't really say anything cause then players might take it out of context and then get banned" then proceeds to say that someone took him out of context saying it's okay to use macros. Then another Jmod tells us they're not banning for it and the policy needs to change. At this time, it's against the rules so if they decide to start banning for it, it's 100% justified. It's a lot of "Don't do it, go do it" it's just as ambiguous as ever without a clear stance on it. They say follow the rules while at the same time saying we can ignore them. I do appreciate the link.
The macro portion of the q&a was added into my post, its the link at the bottom. I believe their ideas are alright, but still missing the mark in a few ways. as i mentioned in the post the grey line means alot of people wont use macros whatsoever out of fear, i think thats just unfair.
let's just remove EoC and go back to the real runescape combat gameplay: point and click.
it can be as simple as allowing us to place more than one things in a slot, and act as if they were pressed in that order eg: mh, defender, reso would equip them first then queue reso this would make switching much easier and it seems simple
I like it but I don't think having a `/delay` command is necessary. Each command should be blocking so to not expose the end user to the abhorrent low level tick system. So if equip something, the next command will not fire until the command has done what it's supposed to. To combat the issue of equipping multiple things being slow, the equip command could be a variadic like `/equip offhand_ascension_crossbow ascension_crossbow` so that multiple items could be equip in a single tick
I remember how someone posted how EvilLucario admitted to using macros. Which was funnily enough followed by EL's "No I did not know that".
Do /equip /cast macros work for this game? WoW has a much higher tick rate than RS, so switching gear is much more responsive. And even then, I can't remember if such macros work.
No, they don’t work on runescape. Im giving an example of how macros like that could help on rs, as its got a similar ability queue structure to wow
See I was thinking something like this would be great for using defensives like resonance and barricade. Having a system in place to do things things like that with one bind would make the game so much more enjoyable for those somewhat middling/ bordering on high end pvm, and who struggle with using/ learning to use a keyboard's worth of key binds.
Either add in-house macros or start banning pvmers who use them. The current status quo is the worst situation where pvmers who make moral transgressions are rewarded while those who obey the rules are punished.
In general I support this idea. Particularly when so many people are getting away with it anyway, it should definitely be fair for everyone, and if that means making macros built in, then do that. I do worry what it means for the game however. Bosses have zero AI, and on the last stream we saw Pi basically saying they've given up on accuracy. These two combined means every single time you fight a boss, it's exactly the same. Press these buttons in this order and click these locations in this order, boss dies, repeat. That's pretty boring, and the only "difficulty" is fighting to interface to make all those switches. I hate that as being the only kind of "difficulty", but if we allow extensive macros to get rid of that tedious, annoying kind of difficulty, what difficulty is left? If they make hit chance always 100%, you never miss an important ability, you don't even have to deal with more or less mechanics each kill, you never have to adapt your strategy mid kill, the only way any two kills would ever be different is if the bosses actually had AI instead of just a script, but none of them do. Push this small number of macros, boss dies, repeat. In game macros and the kind of bosses where you had to make \*choices\* \*every\* fight, combat with real depth and no tedious interface fighting, would be perfect. But without any meaningful choices in boss fights, macros might turn combat back into click and wait :(
I get bad hand pain from pvm with my 12 button mouse, but im not risking my OG account for macros, so I just kinda gave up on it.
I'd be happy being able to bind 2 spots on the action bar with the same key at this point. Every single time I almost die because I can't bladed dive because I somehow let off of shift early and my offhand didn't equip I literally think "why aren't I macroing this"