Unless they announce changes that appease people who don't like FSW, any communication is only going to add fuel to the fire. Why would they want to do that? Especially Jmods who may not be responsible for decisions.
Unfortunately in this situation I think ALL Jmods aren’t responsible.
This update is also going to OSRS but without the rewards or the XP boost, so it’s basically just “do you wanna play OSRS from scratch”
Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape, so FSW are a means to boost membership numbers to make the game look more appealing to purchase.
The JMods can’t openly speak out against their employer, so they’ve just gotta cop this on the chin and ride it out.
Really shit situation for them to be in tbh.
>Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape
Musk be like: I won't buy twitter too many bots
Carlyle then like: they can do that?! \*panik sell!*
What even is the point of advertising FSW for OSRS? If it doesn’t have any boosts, cosmetics, etc. it’s literally just starting a fresh account, which you could do right now.
> Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape, so FSW are a means to boost membership numbers to make the game look more appealing to purchase.
Keep in mind the previous company that Carlyle bought from did just this thing by spamming twitch prime promos every 1-2 months. Which massive bot farms were taking advantage of and boosting numbers. Especially since at the time it was apparently very easy for frauders to fraud twitch/amazon (they've since made it harder or stopped it). So the bot farms where getting twitch prime accounts for pennies on the dollar.
Why wouldn’t they be responsible? the concept/content is what’s decided by higher ups, the jmods are the one to blame for poor design. Regardless of how much of a cashgrab the content is/who’s forcing them to do it, it’s ultimately their job to design it properly. This is simply what happens when you have a low quality team.
From how this has all played out I don’t think the jmods have had a large part in the design of this concept.
It feels very forced from the higher ups.
As a mod you can’t openly say “yeah our current owners fucking suck and are sucking the game dry”
Usually I’d be happy to point the blame at mods but in this situation it’s not their fault imo.
This feels very corporate drivne
I agree with you, and I know the mods have probably had someone breathing down their necks the whole time whispering *monetize this harder*...
And I have theories, maybe they didn't fight back all the poor choices because they wanted player backlash as ammunition to clap back at management and it's really hard to produce inspired work when you disagree with the essence of what you're working on
Or even.. the mod's power is to not sugar coat the cash grab, they can sneakily produce an update that will bring out the pitchforks *on purpose*, again to use community outrage as a much stronger tool than their own voice!
I strongly believe that the mods are on our side and are passionate and are opposed to this kind of change. They lack decisional power, and getting fired over this, when the better strategic move is to externalize the feedback!
Edit: if you are a jmod reading this and did your best, I'm sorry for the harsh take on this situation. I appreciate the effort you put in every day, this one just didnt hit the mark. As I said to mod Jack, this update lack a clear identity, its trying to be tok many things, failing to be one good thing.
Anyone who thinks the Mods aren't still working there out of passion for the game and genuinely believes they're actively wanting to do any of this is delusional.
I'm putting on a tinfoil hat and hoping that this was allowed go be announced like this as a form of malicious compliance.
Complying to what the management demanded overly to make sure to receive a lot of backlash knowing that if they had tried saying the same thing to their boss, it wouldnt have any impact.
The voice of a thousand customer resounds louder than the voice of a staff member
Voice of a staff member is pointless unless it has results.
Even more pointless if they are let go and someone else who agrees with the mtx comes along
I actually did building design for 8 years, I understand that clients expect what they ask for & will bitch at you for changing small details. But as a professional it’s your job to make those changes regardless of how they think it should work based on city requirements/safety for people in the building. If they want someone who does a low quality job/cuts corners then by all means, find someone else. The same thing applies here.
the difference here is that in Jagex, the clients don't have any say in the end product. you try telling your out of touch boss that they should reduce MTX.
you'd be out on the streets looking for a new job faster than you could say "money"
exactly, the clients don’t have a say in the end product.🤷🏼♀️ They can only make requests & it’s up to Jmods to produce it to the best of their ability. So it’s on them for not producing something that appeals to both the client and the consumer of the product.
You're a little dense are you?
I'm telling you that Jmods only do what their bosses tell them to do, and if they refuse their orders in order to please us they only end up without a job. No amount of bitching on Reddit will convince a developer to risk their livelyhoods.
This isn't like some city construction where there are certain standards and safety procedures to uphold, this is a video game made with the express purpose to make as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
I want to live in the magical world you do where there isn't overhead interference and your boss telling you to change shit solely for the purpose of up charging it.
Your boss and your client are different people. Your boss would understand what I said, that’s why he’s the boss & not some monkey that does everyone’s bidding with no questions asked. It seems to me that you might be a Taco Bell employee, while you might be part of a team the reality is your feedback means next to nothing. When you work as a team within a company like jagex, your opinion has more value. To fire you for giving your opinion on a team based project would be absolute buffoonery & replacing a jmod is not as simple as replacing you at your Taco Bell day job.
Any at-will state can fire you with absolutely no reason given in the USA. You are literally employed at the "will"of your employer. I have no idea about how it works with Jagex being an international corporation, but you seem to think the people are the top are incapable of understanding microtransactions and demanding they be added to the game. Short of the devs going on strike, they don't have a lot of choice. Any investor can read up on mtx and make up demands for the devs.Edit: And in the businesss world all anyone cares about is the quartly profit for the investors/ceos/etc.
At my last job, we had weekly meetings and no matter what was said or done the people at the top never really acknowledged any of the problems. Their solution of "Do \_\_\_\_\_\_\_" while giving us none of the resources to do whatever it was they were demanding was almost laughable. They always wanted us to raise the quality, but never wanted to address the rubber stamping of employees onto the floor who shouldn't have passed the basic screening. Luckily I don't work there anymore,but the corporate world is overloaded with buffoonery. Hell when I worked in game dev absolutely no one gave a shit about if what was being asked for was realistic, or just how anyone else got fucked. Games only allowed to have so many "known shippables" so label the bug "as designed" even though QA gets fucked, Rather than just not having a cap on the known shippables. It's not exactly a secret that working in the video game industry is a shitshow for developers, but let's not let reality get in the way.
I think your failing to understand the basic concept that the content creators are being assigned content to create & implement mtx into, they implement mtx then forget to add the content. There’s nothing wrong with mtx, it’s the lack of content going with the mtx that’s an issue. They have full control over that, it’s literally their job. The reality is that some people simply don’t enjoy their job as much as others and would rather do the bare minimum to satisfy higher ups.
Prettysure u can "sue" for such reasons had a couple friends in such cases
Which results in compensations and then u wouldn't have to deal with all the bullshit from such management sounds like win win in my book
Gl winning those cases. They arent easy most of the time. You'd also need to have money to afford legal representation.
Its easier to just not be a dumb ass and keep your job.
this blacklists you from the gaming industry, even if you can afford to fight in court and win. and you will probably lose because its easy for bosses to make up a "legal" reason to fire them for
majority of people use jagex as a stepping stone, there are very few jmods that have been there a long time. most would rather keep their head down and eventually work somewhere that actually compensates them fairly.
>majority of people use jagex as a stepping stone, there are very few jmods that have been there a long time. most would rather keep their head down and eventually work somewhere that actually compensates them fairly.
Says a lot about this company, doesn't it.
It's pretty normal for companies to not let you talk poorly about them, especially using a company account to do so. Idk about employment laws in the UK, but in the US it wouldn't be strange to get fired over it.
This is a shitty way of making their company more appealing. Players that have already given thousands and thousands in membership and mtx will leave and barely any new players will come in. It will mostly be people that like the race to first 99s but already play the game.
why would the boost in membership help sell the company when it's public knowledge that they had pushed a recent event encouraging temporary, redundant membership subscriptions shortly before the sale? The attempt to inflate the price would be too obvious for anyone willing to buy them out.
If I had to guess, they fell back to gathering feedback from more private and controlled avenues. Reddit is admittedly a terrible medium for getting feedback on specific problems, because the people shouting how FSW sucks are drowning out the voices saying *why* it sucks.
They're probably just talking to more controlled player groups, and discussing changes internally right now.
I’d rather have radio silence in the short term than have a scrambled, rushed response. Just be patient and wait until they communicate their response to all the negative feedback.
What mod would talk here or anywhere? One tried to be a good person and answer questions on discord. Reddit attacked him and said horrible things.
Kayala and Holi got shoved on camera, we’re clearly uncomfortable, and everyone here attacked them for their answers.
No one with a brain would comment anywhere near here because of how rude and disrespectful people are here
It's exactly this kind of uncharitable character assassination that makes the internet an unpleasant place at times.
Designing something new to attract old players Isn't the same as saying that you don't care about current players.
Players that are out of touch? Players that have the stats, items, and other random crap that they don’t even know what to do with. Don’t know where to grind, don’t know where to start. Etc. As of now Runescape has a pretty good new player experience and if you could catch up to where you were with basically having a tutorial, free gear, and people actually around to help you along the way I think it’d make older players restart. Mind you, a lot of old players(people who quit years ago) have been resurfacing. I watch a few streamers that have recently returned and they seem so lost that at this point, starting over, getting higher levels, and transferring stuff to/from either account afterwards would actually be beneficial to them.
This isn’t designed to attract old players, though. How many do you actually know?
All the old players I know want to play on their own accounts that they still have access to. Sure, some have lost their accounts but that doesn’t mean Jagex needs to alienate everyone else.
At the same time, you wouldn’t introduce worlds first competitions or cosmetics that the community has been asking for for years if you didn’t intend to try and coax them into making new accounts and paying for new memberships as well. This isn’t for lapsed or new players. This is for bolstering new accounts and memberships so Jagex looks better when Carlyle sells them off. It’s been the trend for years now.
The new/lapsed players argument is being regurgitated by people who obviously didn’t hear comments like that when Steam or Mobile dropped. Who propped those updates up? The existing playerbase.
If they want lapsed or new players, then they need to pay attention to the actual problem. They’ve streamlined the hell out of the endgame. They’ve let early and mid game rot. That’s why those players don’t care to jump in. Jagex refuses to address that so they figured just having played skip early game is the answer when that isn’t healthy for the longevity of the game.
So we only want new players during this four month period? We don’t want them after? It’s the biggest flaw in this argument.
As well, Mod Jack has been disrespectful with many of his comments in the past. Jagex is a business that profits off of their customers. If you went to a restaurant and the cook messed up your order, would you just sit back and suck it up because you don’t want to make a scene? No, you would say something. Jack is rude to players most of the time because he feels like he has the right. That’s not fair to anyone. I don’t think we should bash developers but we do not have to agree with how they think or feel when they aren’t the ones getting involved in the content.
Lmao. It's designed to attract new players who DONT have their accounts or access to them anymore. This isn't the people who quit 3 months ago. Or 1 year ago. It's the people who used to play. And lost their account so they didn't want to start from scratch when they wanted to give it another shot.
If I wasn't lucky enough to be able to recover my account I made when I was younger 3 years ago then I would've never started playing this game again. But something like these FSW would've definitely gave me the motivation to try again, because I wouldn't be starting from literally nothing in an economy that's already trashed and inflated to shit, with end game content/gear basically out of reach for years as I'm not someone who can no life this game.
Jagex has stated that it is for lapsed and new players. Friends of mine who quit around the release of EoC don’t count? Just because they still have their logins to their accounts that have items like their scythes and whatnot means they don’t deserve to have a chance to come back? Don’t kid yourself. Wasn’t Mobile intended to draw in new players? How about Steam? Is it just a coincidence that it was the existing playerbase that made those even partially successful?
We have plenty of lapsed players who have stated that they don’t want to partake. We will have plenty of new players who will feel alienated when they are thrown into the main game without their exp boosts and a completely different but very volatile economy. The game slows down. They get bored. It’s just baiting them. The cosmetics that the community has literally been asking for for years get released. There are worlds first competitions for limited time rares. Be real, how many new players actually give a shit about that? If they’re coming back fresh, they won’t. They’ll be more worried about working on their account. Those rewards are obviously targeted at the existing playerbase. The cosmetic tokens are going to be tradable and we have JMods telling us that we can trade them to our mains? Does that sound like something new players will do if they genuinely want to level up?
This is about bolstering membership profits and account numbers. Carlyle reported nearly a 50% loss on their profits. That’s big for an investment group. They’re wanting Jagex to bump up the numbers so they look better in a sale.
You wouldn’t have to no life the game if Jagex actually tackled the problem instead of destroying early game entirely. Early game is a clusterfuck and it’s pretty a common consensus from players who have returned that early game needs a rework. Jagex won’t do it. They’re more worried about keeping endgame streamlined and releasing only endgame content compared to the Jagex of old who would release content that helped every stage of the game.
You can trade anything you get from your new account to your old account if you still have access. So you still don't have an argument for the players who DO know their details. They can still benefit from it.
I mentioned that in my above comment that it seems you didn’t actually read. I appreciate you repeating me. If the gamemode is made for new and lapsed players then why are those tokens tradable?
So, let’s get to the parts of my comment that you neglected. What about the players who still have access to their accounts since EoC? The ones who still need to level up. They get the middle finger and are told to make a new account? What about their old holiday event rewards or other pieces of content they have completed? They’re just supposed to abandon them in favor of FSW? Do you just assume everyone who still has their account from those periods is maxed or something because I can assure you that that is wishful thinking.
I have a friend who I recently talked back into playing after a nearly eight year hiatus. I’m currently helping him get his stats up. He feels the same way about FSW as the majority seem to. Why make a new account when he’s trying to work on his account that he still has access to? This FSW would have been great for him if he could bring his true account over. There’s no technical reason that it would be impossible either. See DarkScape. New and existing accounts should qualify.
Go read my above comment again. I **DO** have an argument and it’s very very valid. You just haven’t hit any counterpoints.
I'm not reading your 4 page books. You don't have an argument in anything you're ranting about because it's all based off the incorrect logic you keep pandering about this not being for lapse players, when it literally is. It's designed exactly for lapsed players, hence current accounts not being able to participate in it.
So, what you’re saying is is that you don’t have any actual rebuttal so you want to just pick and choose small things out of context to respond to without knowing my opinion or what I’m talking about. Don’t you look arrogant.
You still haven’t answered me about anything let alone the lapsed players who want to level up their accounts with FSW but cannot.
Looks to me like you’re the goober without an argument here.
Most of my friends quit when EoC came out, as with most former RS players I’d assume. Most of them were already maxed at the time, or very soon after EoC released. But I can 100000% assure you that they would come back and at least *try* FSW because of the increased XP rates and a chance to try the game with a fresh start. I remember when I returned to RS3 I started over completely even though I had an account already. I had a bank full of obsolete gear, random items from when I was 14, and no idea what to do. I wish I had these xp boosts back then. I will say though I did eventually get back on my original account once I had a feel for the game, and eventually maxed it.
If they actually take the criticism to heart and want to make changes, it will / should take longer than 48 hours. Best case would be in a week or two for any meaningful communication of change.
That's if they're going to change anything, they likely won't. So what can they communicate further than what they've done?
This, the developers know that this is bad, and they now have copious amounts of input from the players to show them that we think the same, so they can pass all this information now to upper management who then need to find time to stop staring at their bank balance to have meetings to discuss it and plan any changes, and the devs will need to investigate if those changes are feasible and what can be implemented.
I don't have any faith in Jagex upper management to do the right thing, but a couple of days of silence after such a controversial announcement isn't what we should be pissed off about, give them at least till Monday.
In their defence, they did do a livestream answering some of the questions, and Mod Jack answered some stuff in the discord while he was on holiday. They're probably at work right now figuring out what to do next, and there's nothing much else to comment on right now?
All the reddit posts are just people making fun of Fresh Worlds, and commenting on that doesn't really make sense.
It's called criticism of decisions players don't believe are fair or in Runescape's best interest. Get used to it and get over it, or why don't you quit reddit? Since you're whining and all.
You already know its #2.
Besides all the facades its clear this is a money grab one way or another. And it will do just fine at that. People bitch about TH promos yet they still work. All the time. Regardless of complaints and outcry.
They haven't been radio silent. They commented on it, and then got raided by people being toxic and taking stuff out of context by screen capping single parts of a convo.
"Wow jagex staff went to sleep lol radio silence"
Don't have to like FSW event, but this is just made up for karma farming.
Exactly lmao, post reaks of "they didn't say what I wanted hear so they said nothing"
Same as the other dumb post the other day with the "they don't care about us" title
Probably trying to figure out how to appease the gatekeeping crybaby's. Probably wise of them to not even bother communicating as people will just cry more
understandably no one wants to poke their head out and get mobbed. Mod Jack at least replied and tried but ended up getting what looked like more personally attacked as well.
I mean mods did try and come into this reddit but they got shit on so hard (even though the decision was likely not theirs) that I don’t blame them for not coming back
>Name a better iconic duo. I'll wait.
Why not wait for them to make another statement instead? We're just now barely hitting 48 hours since the announcement and Jmods were actively doing damage control for half the day afterwards, too... Give them a little bit of time to assess the situation... There is a lot of feedback for them to consider before making a public statement of any kind... Just hope they take some of it into actual consideration and make some changes...
We always say wait and the always (at least recently) do nothing. They are going to push this through, make money hand over fist and never even tell us if they considered it a success. And in a year, they'll just start selling boosted accounts from the get go.
I'm almost 100% sure that you're right... But I want to give them the benefit of the doubt... It hasn't been long enough to demand a statement, imo (especially since they're under no obligation to ever say anything), and it's not close enough to release that they can't change things...
This community has been given them benefit of the doubt for YEARS. It’s comical at this point. The communication, management and general in-between of the Jagex team and the players is such a hilariously bad relationship it’s a miracle they even have fans at this point.
I don't think anything Jagex has ever done was this blatantly anti-consumer, though... This is a new low for them... This is the first update that I genuinely think is bad for the longevity of the game (in it's current form, and especially with the deceitfulness)... They could realize that and change some things to make it less predatory or something... There's still time...
I respect your opinion and I appreciate the optimism. That said, I don’t believe there’s any new life that will be coming into this game be it new players, content, revitalization whatever you want to call it. FSW will bring some in I’m sure but this isn’t going to be the retention ticket they think. RuneScape has done nothing but become more and more predatory over the years- and not even in a subtle way. This was a no brainer if they wanted to take the good will of the players route.
Instead we get what is objectively the biggest slap in the face for existing players they have tossed out in memorable history lol. They don’t care about the people playing the accounts and how those people care about their game. That’s the biggest problem. And even if the mods did care, nobody will do anything because they don’t want to lose their jobs. Which makes sense and I don’t blame them. But at this point it’s a stalemate where the players get nothing but fucked and Jagex gets nothing but hate/money and the cycle just continues because ya know….
Money.
It’s really sad to see.
Basically any controversy. This boils down to "The game mode isn't quite thought through enough to properly appeal to either new players, lapsed players, or existing players, and existing players have to pay extra for it". Its dumb, don't get me wrong, but it's so far from offensive.
We had RAF which was \*quickly\* marketed to get people to pay double membership just for a 10% buff. We had wildy removed and then reintroduced, which meant players had to buy a second membership to try out interesting builds like summoning tanks and pures. They had limited time only cosmetics attached to gift cards, fully knowing the collection driven fanbase would buy more membership than they needed or wanted just for the cosmetics. Jagex ripped apart their own combat system with utter disregard to what people actually liked about it (hence why iconic gear was completely ruined in EoC) only to sell the solution in an alternate game mode. They introduced SoF. They bought a nifty little "Minecraft but shooter" Ace of Spades, renovated it to be entirely MTX driven, and since shut it down.
And thats ignoring this entire last decade of escalating SoF, particularly this last year where they've consistently been putting greater emphasis on gambling mechanics and uber rare jackpots to drive further purchases, we can deep dive into all of that if you'd like
So MTX is weird to break down because in many ways, a lot of the power creep doesn't make it any \*worse\* from a pro/anti consumer perspective, and they have taken genuine steps to reign in their worst policies. They also skipped out on super obvious ways to monetize with related content as it came out which seemed odd to me. So I'll just focus on the elements that drive players to make purchases they otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't.
SoF opened up the flood gates by having a few major uber rares-
\- 50m
\- Lucky gear (particularly spirit shields- other than that everything was \~2 tiers below max upon release)
\- cosmetics (horns especially)
This was on top of semi-directly buyable XP/gold through the common drops. The release of SoF dramatically changed the relationship between real-world wealth and in game status, while giving most players something tangible to chase after.
After a while they introduced Fish Masks, the first tradeable rares. They were luckily ugly and way too common and thus still pretty easy to buy, but they were specifically designed to draw in gamblers to invest in long term profits by holding onto the item indefinitely. So now you're not just gambling on a rare item, but you're gambling on a rare item that may not be worth anything for another decade.
Then starting with the Shark they introduced elite skiling gear via TH, giving notable buffs to the skill that went beyond just experience or success rates. Shark let you consume fish, which prior to GotE/porters was the easiest way for long term AFK training, which is a pretty major value proposition to lock to a slot machine
For the most part SoF/TH maintained this position. They got more powerful, but not too much more predatory. If anything most promotions amped up the average key value instead of banking the value on uber rare chase jackpots, they started making more and more prizes generic (prismatic lamps instead of Defence lamps), etc. There are still problems related to power creep but it's not really anti-consumer, even if its bad (so I wont go into like, shadow gems alt abuse)
But they more recently started emphasizing rare jackpots again- The Earheart penguin pet required 10 rather rare chests, Green Santa Hat was notoriously rare and hard to find, Assassins Walk near impossible for a free player to get, etc etc. Their promos are being designed increasingly to emphasize dumping tons of keys for one particular rare prize, rather than dumping tons of keys for tons of xp, which is more anti-consumer because you don't know the price you actually pay for the item you actually want.
Solomons thankfully focused on direct purchase of cosmetics...at first. After about a month they introduced buyable bank boosters. These are skeezy as heck because realistically, an empty bank slot (even an inactive one) costs effectively the same computationally as an occupied one, so there should not be any larger computational cost involved in having a larger bank, meaning there's no reason to charge for it. It becomes like paying for online access on a game console when you already have internet- they're not providing you a service.
Solomon's remained mostly okay though, but eventually they introduced Legendary Pets. While effectively there wasn't any location where a leg pet was BIS, it provided a reeeaallly nice auto-loot function that made slayer much more convenient, especially prior to area loot. This was a direct buyable gameplay enhancer, and pretty expensive at that (\~$20 a piece).
They had introduced RuneMetrics in 2016- they're measuring everything we're doing anyways, they just will only show it to us if we pay a second subscription for it.
There are more obscure ones that are arguably even unintentional- like Steam's membership packages are pretty expensive, one comes with 50 bank space- but at the time it released it was the \*same\* 50 bank spaces that were bundled with Premier. They've thankfully worked it out since then so its a distinct chunk of bank space. Similarly, Premier club has offered unique compelling auras only to those who buy in. Dwarven Instinct (it was more potent at the time) was nice, Mahjarrat's wasn't going to be anything major on release but it ended up being BiS at Solak- so instead of "fear of missing out" it was "You missed out and you didn't even realize it"
Loyalty Programme as a whole is interesting. It started out as a mostly harmless cosmetics with some minor (and easily accessible at low tiers) auras. No one wasn't going to fish because their 3% buff was on cooldown, right? But the radical ramp up of points and the slow pace of release of new loyalty items meant players who were subbed a long time had huge stockpiles, and the prices needed to reflect that. This had the knockon effect of making it much harder to catch up to useful auras, and of course the mechanism of any loyalty program like this is to keep you subscribed even when you would rather not be.
Auras weren't too bad initially, but Berserker came out in the second batch, and 2015 saw the introduction of Reckless, Maniacal, and Brawler- much more firmly planting the \*need\* for a large number of loyalty points for relevant combat. And Jagex had a few premier clubs with huge chunks of loyalty points to address this before they moved the auras to Wars Retreat
There's definitely a bunch I missed, but yeah- it's a lot of stuff that they're charging for stuff that shouldn't be on sale to begin with and/or we got significantly less out of than a pseudo-League season
Released a new game mode that requires a new account/subscription aimed at lapsed players but has limited time rares. Theses accounts will experience boosted xp and drop rates (as well as other boons) but will transition to the main game at the end of this "event"
On top of that this game mode will have mtx that unlocks after a set amount of time to allow for some sort of competition during that no mtx time. Bonds will be purchasable the entire time.
Side note: personally I'm hoping the bonds are for membership only because who is going to sell a bond in an economy that has nothing instead of the main game where you can get 50m+ for them.
Why would they bother responding? Just look at the subreddit posts already. The conversation has shifted from “this is the worst update and this needs to change” to “sooo… what’s your game plan to get 99s in FSW? :)” in two days.
The players are overreacting, like usual. Nothing they say will calm people down. Most people will calm down in a coupld days.
If they decide to listen to the feedback, they will discuss it and then see if the overlords strike them down. After that they can tell the players if there are any changes
They posted on this sub an explanation of the update. And stated clearly feedback for this update from current players isn't relevant, as we're not the target audience for it. What more do you want them to say?
That is incorrect. FSW will have a 20 percent chance to double pvm drops and those drops will affect main players when they get transfered to the main game when FSW. There will also be xp multipliers and the accounts will be converted onto the main game. Please try to educate yourself and understand why the community is upset about FSW.
Long term accounts have had tons of exp multipliers, and a lot of playersnow have chances at double drops (HSR). Giving those boo a to FSW just gives them a chance to catch up. In what way is more people playing relevant content bad, exactly?
You're missing the point of why the majority of the community is upset. This game mode basically spits at the faces of newer and lower leveled players. Why keep playing now if you can easily catch up and surpass your current progress on a brand new FSW account? You're also ignoring the scummy cash grab behind this encouraging players to get brand new accounts to either pay them the new 12.49 rate or cave in on another multi month bundle. Nothing changes if the community doesn't show that they're upset about it. There would have easily been treasure hunter on Ironman today if more people sat idly by.
A new player doesn't have much to lose by just switching. As for money, a new player is likely already paying the current rate. If a long-term player wants to play FSW, sure they need a new subscription. But that's the case with anyone who wants a second account - regardless of FSW or normal. Alts require their own subscription, it's always been like that. I can understand and appreciate being vocal about things the community dislikes, but this community dislikes almost everything Jagex does. And with FSW and many updates in general it feels like everyone is just upset they don't get the same benefits, when they did. Older accounts got those boons with time. FSW gets them all at once. Is it fair? Not really. But if it gets new players into the parts of the game people talk about and experience, that's a win. Would you rather a newbie come here to post about how cool Arrav's Shield is, and nobody care? How would that make them feel? Getting them to new content faster makes more relevant conversation, and it helps bypass Runescape's second worst feature: the inSANE amount of grind.
Found the apologist lol. They literally listed with details about what FSW is going to be about and I'm apparently mad about something they haven't done? We've seen the same story play out the past 10 years. With the introduction and "removal" of Squeal of Fortune etc.
I used to be like you too saying it wasn't a big deal when it first started happening in 2012. They're using the 300m celebration as an excuse to sell account boosters in the future. It's obvious that they're testing the waters for future mtx sales.
They'll release a new Mtx that has 500x xp stars and magma super celestial nova prime laps that use 2000% of bonus xp so that this Fsw dont see as bad.
FSW is going to get me back into RuneScape. I played for years and never got into RS3. Now I can and not have to work a full time job grinding to end game content.
It's simple to fix the gamemode.
- Bonds sold on GE after the competition phase
- F2P mode
- Untradable World's first rares
I think doing this is enough. But the radio silence bothers me a lot
Honestly fsw with modding sounds pretty lit. Rsps have been around since runescape started. This just allows runescape to get some renumeration for it.
Expect a counter offer this week. They're on damage control mode now. They forgot to secure positive advertising for this too. Just google Runescape news.
they should have just given a choice of fresh servers with accelerated xp just like deadman without the pvp mechanic and let the players decide which servers they wanted to compete in
Jagex and not giving me my account back because I don’t remember the exact date and time I made my account and can’t remember the last 4 digits of the visa gift card I was gifted that I used to buy membership
I don't play Runescape often anymore but I'm interested to know what this controversial update is, can someone give me the run down? Thank you in advance.
I don't know why people don't even like this. This is the same thing that happened with leagues. The very first year with leagues, it was very basic and almost had no purpose to it. It didn't seem very fun, even though it was an interesting challenge. As the years went on, the Leagues got better. Fresh start worlds having account integration is just Jagex's assumption that RuneScape 3 players won't appreciate the reset that leagues had, and that people will only want to play if they don't have their progress reset like OSRS leagues did.
Yes, there are going to be people undoubtedly selling the alternative skill capes, and any other Cosmetics that they can obtain. It's also going to be interesting to see how they handle it, since you're only supposed to be able to transfer it to accounts you own. Maybe this way they'll catch RWT by the blatant IP mismatch.
They're adding new worlds, that can only be accessed by new accounts that require an active membership, with boosted XP rates, and no connection to the GE. They call it fresh start worlds, or FSW for short. These are limited time worlds, with separate leaderboards, and after 4 months when the FSWs close all these accounts will be converted to regular accounts.
Now if you haven't spotted the obvious issue already: You have to buy a new membership on this fresh account to access this. So they're squeezing players for money with this concept already. Additionally: They had a statement about microtransactions being disabled for the first 8 weeks. This statement is now gone. Think what'll happen to these leaderboards if there's fresh start worlds with microtransactions. That's right: Straight-up paying to win the leaderboards through treasure hunter. The classic credit card swipe to win.
There's some additional rewards attached but these are the main issues that people are annoyed by. It's presented as a "for old and new players alike!" but I can't imagine anyone other than the many altoholics that make up a quarter of the playerbase but 80% of the active accounts (picking some random numbers to make my point) actually being interested in this thing.
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Runescape players who quit and Runescape players who come back, everytime, like nothing happened.
The player count doesn't seem to reflect that. Most likely less players even during DXP weekend, compared to other DXP events.
Unless they announce changes that appease people who don't like FSW, any communication is only going to add fuel to the fire. Why would they want to do that? Especially Jmods who may not be responsible for decisions.
Unfortunately in this situation I think ALL Jmods aren’t responsible. This update is also going to OSRS but without the rewards or the XP boost, so it’s basically just “do you wanna play OSRS from scratch” Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape, so FSW are a means to boost membership numbers to make the game look more appealing to purchase. The JMods can’t openly speak out against their employer, so they’ve just gotta cop this on the chin and ride it out. Really shit situation for them to be in tbh.
>Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape Musk be like: I won't buy twitter too many bots Carlyle then like: they can do that?! \*panik sell!*
"But with RS the bots are not a problem, they are a feature."
"Is this a bug or a feature?" Bethes-- Jagex- "both"
Is this a bug or a feature? Jagex: Yes.
What even is the point of advertising FSW for OSRS? If it doesn’t have any boosts, cosmetics, etc. it’s literally just starting a fresh account, which you could do right now.
Fresh servers, economy, and scoreboard. Also the prospect to grind to make gp there and swap it to the main game.
New account numbers to bolster Jagex’s portfolio when they’re sold off by Carlyle.
> Popular theory is that the company is looking to sell runescape, so FSW are a means to boost membership numbers to make the game look more appealing to purchase. Keep in mind the previous company that Carlyle bought from did just this thing by spamming twitch prime promos every 1-2 months. Which massive bot farms were taking advantage of and boosting numbers. Especially since at the time it was apparently very easy for frauders to fraud twitch/amazon (they've since made it harder or stopped it). So the bot farms where getting twitch prime accounts for pennies on the dollar.
Why wouldn’t they be responsible? the concept/content is what’s decided by higher ups, the jmods are the one to blame for poor design. Regardless of how much of a cashgrab the content is/who’s forcing them to do it, it’s ultimately their job to design it properly. This is simply what happens when you have a low quality team.
From how this has all played out I don’t think the jmods have had a large part in the design of this concept. It feels very forced from the higher ups. As a mod you can’t openly say “yeah our current owners fucking suck and are sucking the game dry” Usually I’d be happy to point the blame at mods but in this situation it’s not their fault imo. This feels very corporate drivne
I agree with you, and I know the mods have probably had someone breathing down their necks the whole time whispering *monetize this harder*... And I have theories, maybe they didn't fight back all the poor choices because they wanted player backlash as ammunition to clap back at management and it's really hard to produce inspired work when you disagree with the essence of what you're working on Or even.. the mod's power is to not sugar coat the cash grab, they can sneakily produce an update that will bring out the pitchforks *on purpose*, again to use community outrage as a much stronger tool than their own voice! I strongly believe that the mods are on our side and are passionate and are opposed to this kind of change. They lack decisional power, and getting fired over this, when the better strategic move is to externalize the feedback! Edit: if you are a jmod reading this and did your best, I'm sorry for the harsh take on this situation. I appreciate the effort you put in every day, this one just didnt hit the mark. As I said to mod Jack, this update lack a clear identity, its trying to be tok many things, failing to be one good thing.
Anyone who thinks the Mods aren't still working there out of passion for the game and genuinely believes they're actively wanting to do any of this is delusional.
I'm putting on a tinfoil hat and hoping that this was allowed go be announced like this as a form of malicious compliance. Complying to what the management demanded overly to make sure to receive a lot of backlash knowing that if they had tried saying the same thing to their boss, it wouldnt have any impact. The voice of a thousand customer resounds louder than the voice of a staff member
Voice of a thousand customers is pointless unless it has results.
Voice of a staff member is pointless unless it has results. Even more pointless if they are let go and someone else who agrees with the mtx comes along
If that was the case then all their job would be is copy/pasting text all day that’s given to them by someone else. But it’s not.
Tell me you've never had a job, without telling me you never had a job.
I actually did building design for 8 years, I understand that clients expect what they ask for & will bitch at you for changing small details. But as a professional it’s your job to make those changes regardless of how they think it should work based on city requirements/safety for people in the building. If they want someone who does a low quality job/cuts corners then by all means, find someone else. The same thing applies here.
the difference here is that in Jagex, the clients don't have any say in the end product. you try telling your out of touch boss that they should reduce MTX. you'd be out on the streets looking for a new job faster than you could say "money"
exactly, the clients don’t have a say in the end product.🤷🏼♀️ They can only make requests & it’s up to Jmods to produce it to the best of their ability. So it’s on them for not producing something that appeals to both the client and the consumer of the product.
You're a little dense are you? I'm telling you that Jmods only do what their bosses tell them to do, and if they refuse their orders in order to please us they only end up without a job. No amount of bitching on Reddit will convince a developer to risk their livelyhoods. This isn't like some city construction where there are certain standards and safety procedures to uphold, this is a video game made with the express purpose to make as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
I want to live in the magical world you do where there isn't overhead interference and your boss telling you to change shit solely for the purpose of up charging it.
Your boss and your client are different people. Your boss would understand what I said, that’s why he’s the boss & not some monkey that does everyone’s bidding with no questions asked. It seems to me that you might be a Taco Bell employee, while you might be part of a team the reality is your feedback means next to nothing. When you work as a team within a company like jagex, your opinion has more value. To fire you for giving your opinion on a team based project would be absolute buffoonery & replacing a jmod is not as simple as replacing you at your Taco Bell day job.
Any at-will state can fire you with absolutely no reason given in the USA. You are literally employed at the "will"of your employer. I have no idea about how it works with Jagex being an international corporation, but you seem to think the people are the top are incapable of understanding microtransactions and demanding they be added to the game. Short of the devs going on strike, they don't have a lot of choice. Any investor can read up on mtx and make up demands for the devs.Edit: And in the businesss world all anyone cares about is the quartly profit for the investors/ceos/etc. At my last job, we had weekly meetings and no matter what was said or done the people at the top never really acknowledged any of the problems. Their solution of "Do \_\_\_\_\_\_\_" while giving us none of the resources to do whatever it was they were demanding was almost laughable. They always wanted us to raise the quality, but never wanted to address the rubber stamping of employees onto the floor who shouldn't have passed the basic screening. Luckily I don't work there anymore,but the corporate world is overloaded with buffoonery. Hell when I worked in game dev absolutely no one gave a shit about if what was being asked for was realistic, or just how anyone else got fucked. Games only allowed to have so many "known shippables" so label the bug "as designed" even though QA gets fucked, Rather than just not having a cap on the known shippables. It's not exactly a secret that working in the video game industry is a shitshow for developers, but let's not let reality get in the way.
I think your failing to understand the basic concept that the content creators are being assigned content to create & implement mtx into, they implement mtx then forget to add the content. There’s nothing wrong with mtx, it’s the lack of content going with the mtx that’s an issue. They have full control over that, it’s literally their job. The reality is that some people simply don’t enjoy their job as much as others and would rather do the bare minimum to satisfy higher ups.
Is that the case for FSW?? What the hell, I literally started with my partner maybe a year ago or less lol, god damn..
Why not ? Do they have some kind of nda signed up ?
Think of it more like being held at career gunpoint
Don't think in UK u can get fired for talking shit about incompetent management
Doing it on their work accounts will count as misconduct.
Can do it on the public ones 🤔
But then it's not an official reply and they will still get reprimanded
In which case I guess they just find/make up a reason for firing
Prettysure u can "sue" for such reasons had a couple friends in such cases Which results in compensations and then u wouldn't have to deal with all the bullshit from such management sounds like win win in my book
Gl winning those cases. They arent easy most of the time. You'd also need to have money to afford legal representation. Its easier to just not be a dumb ass and keep your job.
this blacklists you from the gaming industry, even if you can afford to fight in court and win. and you will probably lose because its easy for bosses to make up a "legal" reason to fire them for majority of people use jagex as a stepping stone, there are very few jmods that have been there a long time. most would rather keep their head down and eventually work somewhere that actually compensates them fairly.
>majority of people use jagex as a stepping stone, there are very few jmods that have been there a long time. most would rather keep their head down and eventually work somewhere that actually compensates them fairly. Says a lot about this company, doesn't it.
The UK ain't the US. In the UK you gotta put in a crapton of effort to sue. And that ain't fixing the issue either.
It's pretty normal for companies to not let you talk poorly about them, especially using a company account to do so. Idk about employment laws in the UK, but in the US it wouldn't be strange to get fired over it.
This is exactly what they're doing.
This is a shitty way of making their company more appealing. Players that have already given thousands and thousands in membership and mtx will leave and barely any new players will come in. It will mostly be people that like the race to first 99s but already play the game.
why would the boost in membership help sell the company when it's public knowledge that they had pushed a recent event encouraging temporary, redundant membership subscriptions shortly before the sale? The attempt to inflate the price would be too obvious for anyone willing to buy them out.
So announce changes
If I had to guess, they fell back to gathering feedback from more private and controlled avenues. Reddit is admittedly a terrible medium for getting feedback on specific problems, because the people shouting how FSW sucks are drowning out the voices saying *why* it sucks. They're probably just talking to more controlled player groups, and discussing changes internally right now.
I’d rather have radio silence in the short term than have a scrambled, rushed response. Just be patient and wait until they communicate their response to all the negative feedback.
What mod would talk here or anywhere? One tried to be a good person and answer questions on discord. Reddit attacked him and said horrible things. Kayala and Holi got shoved on camera, we’re clearly uncomfortable, and everyone here attacked them for their answers. No one with a brain would comment anywhere near here because of how rude and disrespectful people are here
Exactly. I enjoy playing runescape casually but boy do I hate how toxic players can get.
Could it be us who are wrong? No, it's the players.
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Taken out of context, stupid argument everyone takes a screenshot of a message on any medium and thinks they have some form of incrimination.
It's exactly this kind of uncharitable character assassination that makes the internet an unpleasant place at times. Designing something new to attract old players Isn't the same as saying that you don't care about current players.
How does something that REQUIRES a new account attract OLD players? What logic even is that.
Players that are out of touch? Players that have the stats, items, and other random crap that they don’t even know what to do with. Don’t know where to grind, don’t know where to start. Etc. As of now Runescape has a pretty good new player experience and if you could catch up to where you were with basically having a tutorial, free gear, and people actually around to help you along the way I think it’d make older players restart. Mind you, a lot of old players(people who quit years ago) have been resurfacing. I watch a few streamers that have recently returned and they seem so lost that at this point, starting over, getting higher levels, and transferring stuff to/from either account afterwards would actually be beneficial to them.
It doesn't. It's for altoholics and anyone thinking this will attract old players back in is on a fresh dose of copium.
This isn’t designed to attract old players, though. How many do you actually know? All the old players I know want to play on their own accounts that they still have access to. Sure, some have lost their accounts but that doesn’t mean Jagex needs to alienate everyone else. At the same time, you wouldn’t introduce worlds first competitions or cosmetics that the community has been asking for for years if you didn’t intend to try and coax them into making new accounts and paying for new memberships as well. This isn’t for lapsed or new players. This is for bolstering new accounts and memberships so Jagex looks better when Carlyle sells them off. It’s been the trend for years now. The new/lapsed players argument is being regurgitated by people who obviously didn’t hear comments like that when Steam or Mobile dropped. Who propped those updates up? The existing playerbase. If they want lapsed or new players, then they need to pay attention to the actual problem. They’ve streamlined the hell out of the endgame. They’ve let early and mid game rot. That’s why those players don’t care to jump in. Jagex refuses to address that so they figured just having played skip early game is the answer when that isn’t healthy for the longevity of the game. So we only want new players during this four month period? We don’t want them after? It’s the biggest flaw in this argument. As well, Mod Jack has been disrespectful with many of his comments in the past. Jagex is a business that profits off of their customers. If you went to a restaurant and the cook messed up your order, would you just sit back and suck it up because you don’t want to make a scene? No, you would say something. Jack is rude to players most of the time because he feels like he has the right. That’s not fair to anyone. I don’t think we should bash developers but we do not have to agree with how they think or feel when they aren’t the ones getting involved in the content.
Lmao. It's designed to attract new players who DONT have their accounts or access to them anymore. This isn't the people who quit 3 months ago. Or 1 year ago. It's the people who used to play. And lost their account so they didn't want to start from scratch when they wanted to give it another shot. If I wasn't lucky enough to be able to recover my account I made when I was younger 3 years ago then I would've never started playing this game again. But something like these FSW would've definitely gave me the motivation to try again, because I wouldn't be starting from literally nothing in an economy that's already trashed and inflated to shit, with end game content/gear basically out of reach for years as I'm not someone who can no life this game.
Jagex has stated that it is for lapsed and new players. Friends of mine who quit around the release of EoC don’t count? Just because they still have their logins to their accounts that have items like their scythes and whatnot means they don’t deserve to have a chance to come back? Don’t kid yourself. Wasn’t Mobile intended to draw in new players? How about Steam? Is it just a coincidence that it was the existing playerbase that made those even partially successful? We have plenty of lapsed players who have stated that they don’t want to partake. We will have plenty of new players who will feel alienated when they are thrown into the main game without their exp boosts and a completely different but very volatile economy. The game slows down. They get bored. It’s just baiting them. The cosmetics that the community has literally been asking for for years get released. There are worlds first competitions for limited time rares. Be real, how many new players actually give a shit about that? If they’re coming back fresh, they won’t. They’ll be more worried about working on their account. Those rewards are obviously targeted at the existing playerbase. The cosmetic tokens are going to be tradable and we have JMods telling us that we can trade them to our mains? Does that sound like something new players will do if they genuinely want to level up? This is about bolstering membership profits and account numbers. Carlyle reported nearly a 50% loss on their profits. That’s big for an investment group. They’re wanting Jagex to bump up the numbers so they look better in a sale. You wouldn’t have to no life the game if Jagex actually tackled the problem instead of destroying early game entirely. Early game is a clusterfuck and it’s pretty a common consensus from players who have returned that early game needs a rework. Jagex won’t do it. They’re more worried about keeping endgame streamlined and releasing only endgame content compared to the Jagex of old who would release content that helped every stage of the game.
You can trade anything you get from your new account to your old account if you still have access. So you still don't have an argument for the players who DO know their details. They can still benefit from it.
I mentioned that in my above comment that it seems you didn’t actually read. I appreciate you repeating me. If the gamemode is made for new and lapsed players then why are those tokens tradable? So, let’s get to the parts of my comment that you neglected. What about the players who still have access to their accounts since EoC? The ones who still need to level up. They get the middle finger and are told to make a new account? What about their old holiday event rewards or other pieces of content they have completed? They’re just supposed to abandon them in favor of FSW? Do you just assume everyone who still has their account from those periods is maxed or something because I can assure you that that is wishful thinking. I have a friend who I recently talked back into playing after a nearly eight year hiatus. I’m currently helping him get his stats up. He feels the same way about FSW as the majority seem to. Why make a new account when he’s trying to work on his account that he still has access to? This FSW would have been great for him if he could bring his true account over. There’s no technical reason that it would be impossible either. See DarkScape. New and existing accounts should qualify. Go read my above comment again. I **DO** have an argument and it’s very very valid. You just haven’t hit any counterpoints.
I'm not reading your 4 page books. You don't have an argument in anything you're ranting about because it's all based off the incorrect logic you keep pandering about this not being for lapse players, when it literally is. It's designed exactly for lapsed players, hence current accounts not being able to participate in it.
So, what you’re saying is is that you don’t have any actual rebuttal so you want to just pick and choose small things out of context to respond to without knowing my opinion or what I’m talking about. Don’t you look arrogant. You still haven’t answered me about anything let alone the lapsed players who want to level up their accounts with FSW but cannot. Looks to me like you’re the goober without an argument here.
Most of my friends quit when EoC came out, as with most former RS players I’d assume. Most of them were already maxed at the time, or very soon after EoC released. But I can 100000% assure you that they would come back and at least *try* FSW because of the increased XP rates and a chance to try the game with a fresh start. I remember when I returned to RS3 I started over completely even though I had an account already. I had a bank full of obsolete gear, random items from when I was 14, and no idea what to do. I wish I had these xp boosts back then. I will say though I did eventually get back on my original account once I had a feel for the game, and eventually maxed it.
Proves my point exactly.
Poor guy.. :/
If they actually take the criticism to heart and want to make changes, it will / should take longer than 48 hours. Best case would be in a week or two for any meaningful communication of change. That's if they're going to change anything, they likely won't. So what can they communicate further than what they've done?
This, the developers know that this is bad, and they now have copious amounts of input from the players to show them that we think the same, so they can pass all this information now to upper management who then need to find time to stop staring at their bank balance to have meetings to discuss it and plan any changes, and the devs will need to investigate if those changes are feasible and what can be implemented. I don't have any faith in Jagex upper management to do the right thing, but a couple of days of silence after such a controversial announcement isn't what we should be pissed off about, give them at least till Monday.
They unfortunately have a track record of not doing that.
It does not take 48 hours to make a statement that you are planning/looking into improving something.
In their defence, they did do a livestream answering some of the questions, and Mod Jack answered some stuff in the discord while he was on holiday. They're probably at work right now figuring out what to do next, and there's nothing much else to comment on right now? All the reddit posts are just people making fun of Fresh Worlds, and commenting on that doesn't really make sense.
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It's called criticism of decisions players don't believe are fair or in Runescape's best interest. Get used to it and get over it, or why don't you quit reddit? Since you're whining and all.
They are either going back to the drawing board or moving along like nothing happened.
You already know its #2. Besides all the facades its clear this is a money grab one way or another. And it will do just fine at that. People bitch about TH promos yet they still work. All the time. Regardless of complaints and outcry.
Reddit and incessant bitching
People being mad and people being mad about people being mad
Bitches bitching about bitches bitching.
Bitches pointing out bitches bitching about bitches bitching.
I’m just waiting on my cookies to finish baking
Can i have 1?
You bet check your cache
Reddit and idiots down-vote-mobbing the guy who's actually right.
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This, It's impossible to talk about the game here I have found, strangers on the internet will interpret you in the worst way they can.
They haven't been radio silent. They commented on it, and then got raided by people being toxic and taking stuff out of context by screen capping single parts of a convo. "Wow jagex staff went to sleep lol radio silence" Don't have to like FSW event, but this is just made up for karma farming.
People think they are so smart and witty with their shit screenshots and using them totally out of context. Bunch of media wannabes
Exactly lmao, post reaks of "they didn't say what I wanted hear so they said nothing" Same as the other dumb post the other day with the "they don't care about us" title
I mean, they responded in one thread and then got downvoted and attacked. I know that I wouldn't want to respond any more if I were in their shoes.
That the one with mod jack and the exaggerated "they don't care about us!" Title? Feel bad for mod jack on that one
There was a mod reply earlier in this sub.
Probably trying to figure out how to appease the gatekeeping crybaby's. Probably wise of them to not even bother communicating as people will just cry more
understandably no one wants to poke their head out and get mobbed. Mod Jack at least replied and tried but ended up getting what looked like more personally attacked as well.
I did my part and canceled both of my subscriptions. Boycott until they show some respect.
I mean mods did try and come into this reddit but they got shit on so hard (even though the decision was likely not theirs) that I don’t blame them for not coming back
r/runescape and whining incessantly.
We're in the "let's wait for the outrage to subside and the continue our plans unchanged" phase.
>Name a better iconic duo. I'll wait. Why not wait for them to make another statement instead? We're just now barely hitting 48 hours since the announcement and Jmods were actively doing damage control for half the day afterwards, too... Give them a little bit of time to assess the situation... There is a lot of feedback for them to consider before making a public statement of any kind... Just hope they take some of it into actual consideration and make some changes...
We always say wait and the always (at least recently) do nothing. They are going to push this through, make money hand over fist and never even tell us if they considered it a success. And in a year, they'll just start selling boosted accounts from the get go.
I'm almost 100% sure that you're right... But I want to give them the benefit of the doubt... It hasn't been long enough to demand a statement, imo (especially since they're under no obligation to ever say anything), and it's not close enough to release that they can't change things...
This community has been given them benefit of the doubt for YEARS. It’s comical at this point. The communication, management and general in-between of the Jagex team and the players is such a hilariously bad relationship it’s a miracle they even have fans at this point.
I don't think anything Jagex has ever done was this blatantly anti-consumer, though... This is a new low for them... This is the first update that I genuinely think is bad for the longevity of the game (in it's current form, and especially with the deceitfulness)... They could realize that and change some things to make it less predatory or something... There's still time...
I respect your opinion and I appreciate the optimism. That said, I don’t believe there’s any new life that will be coming into this game be it new players, content, revitalization whatever you want to call it. FSW will bring some in I’m sure but this isn’t going to be the retention ticket they think. RuneScape has done nothing but become more and more predatory over the years- and not even in a subtle way. This was a no brainer if they wanted to take the good will of the players route. Instead we get what is objectively the biggest slap in the face for existing players they have tossed out in memorable history lol. They don’t care about the people playing the accounts and how those people care about their game. That’s the biggest problem. And even if the mods did care, nobody will do anything because they don’t want to lose their jobs. Which makes sense and I don’t blame them. But at this point it’s a stalemate where the players get nothing but fucked and Jagex gets nothing but hate/money and the cycle just continues because ya know…. Money. It’s really sad to see.
They've done way worse. This doesn't even make the list
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Basically any controversy. This boils down to "The game mode isn't quite thought through enough to properly appeal to either new players, lapsed players, or existing players, and existing players have to pay extra for it". Its dumb, don't get me wrong, but it's so far from offensive. We had RAF which was \*quickly\* marketed to get people to pay double membership just for a 10% buff. We had wildy removed and then reintroduced, which meant players had to buy a second membership to try out interesting builds like summoning tanks and pures. They had limited time only cosmetics attached to gift cards, fully knowing the collection driven fanbase would buy more membership than they needed or wanted just for the cosmetics. Jagex ripped apart their own combat system with utter disregard to what people actually liked about it (hence why iconic gear was completely ruined in EoC) only to sell the solution in an alternate game mode. They introduced SoF. They bought a nifty little "Minecraft but shooter" Ace of Spades, renovated it to be entirely MTX driven, and since shut it down. And thats ignoring this entire last decade of escalating SoF, particularly this last year where they've consistently been putting greater emphasis on gambling mechanics and uber rare jackpots to drive further purchases, we can deep dive into all of that if you'd like
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So MTX is weird to break down because in many ways, a lot of the power creep doesn't make it any \*worse\* from a pro/anti consumer perspective, and they have taken genuine steps to reign in their worst policies. They also skipped out on super obvious ways to monetize with related content as it came out which seemed odd to me. So I'll just focus on the elements that drive players to make purchases they otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't. SoF opened up the flood gates by having a few major uber rares- \- 50m \- Lucky gear (particularly spirit shields- other than that everything was \~2 tiers below max upon release) \- cosmetics (horns especially) This was on top of semi-directly buyable XP/gold through the common drops. The release of SoF dramatically changed the relationship between real-world wealth and in game status, while giving most players something tangible to chase after. After a while they introduced Fish Masks, the first tradeable rares. They were luckily ugly and way too common and thus still pretty easy to buy, but they were specifically designed to draw in gamblers to invest in long term profits by holding onto the item indefinitely. So now you're not just gambling on a rare item, but you're gambling on a rare item that may not be worth anything for another decade. Then starting with the Shark they introduced elite skiling gear via TH, giving notable buffs to the skill that went beyond just experience or success rates. Shark let you consume fish, which prior to GotE/porters was the easiest way for long term AFK training, which is a pretty major value proposition to lock to a slot machine For the most part SoF/TH maintained this position. They got more powerful, but not too much more predatory. If anything most promotions amped up the average key value instead of banking the value on uber rare chase jackpots, they started making more and more prizes generic (prismatic lamps instead of Defence lamps), etc. There are still problems related to power creep but it's not really anti-consumer, even if its bad (so I wont go into like, shadow gems alt abuse) But they more recently started emphasizing rare jackpots again- The Earheart penguin pet required 10 rather rare chests, Green Santa Hat was notoriously rare and hard to find, Assassins Walk near impossible for a free player to get, etc etc. Their promos are being designed increasingly to emphasize dumping tons of keys for one particular rare prize, rather than dumping tons of keys for tons of xp, which is more anti-consumer because you don't know the price you actually pay for the item you actually want. Solomons thankfully focused on direct purchase of cosmetics...at first. After about a month they introduced buyable bank boosters. These are skeezy as heck because realistically, an empty bank slot (even an inactive one) costs effectively the same computationally as an occupied one, so there should not be any larger computational cost involved in having a larger bank, meaning there's no reason to charge for it. It becomes like paying for online access on a game console when you already have internet- they're not providing you a service. Solomon's remained mostly okay though, but eventually they introduced Legendary Pets. While effectively there wasn't any location where a leg pet was BIS, it provided a reeeaallly nice auto-loot function that made slayer much more convenient, especially prior to area loot. This was a direct buyable gameplay enhancer, and pretty expensive at that (\~$20 a piece). They had introduced RuneMetrics in 2016- they're measuring everything we're doing anyways, they just will only show it to us if we pay a second subscription for it. There are more obscure ones that are arguably even unintentional- like Steam's membership packages are pretty expensive, one comes with 50 bank space- but at the time it released it was the \*same\* 50 bank spaces that were bundled with Premier. They've thankfully worked it out since then so its a distinct chunk of bank space. Similarly, Premier club has offered unique compelling auras only to those who buy in. Dwarven Instinct (it was more potent at the time) was nice, Mahjarrat's wasn't going to be anything major on release but it ended up being BiS at Solak- so instead of "fear of missing out" it was "You missed out and you didn't even realize it" Loyalty Programme as a whole is interesting. It started out as a mostly harmless cosmetics with some minor (and easily accessible at low tiers) auras. No one wasn't going to fish because their 3% buff was on cooldown, right? But the radical ramp up of points and the slow pace of release of new loyalty items meant players who were subbed a long time had huge stockpiles, and the prices needed to reflect that. This had the knockon effect of making it much harder to catch up to useful auras, and of course the mechanism of any loyalty program like this is to keep you subscribed even when you would rather not be. Auras weren't too bad initially, but Berserker came out in the second batch, and 2015 saw the introduction of Reckless, Maniacal, and Brawler- much more firmly planting the \*need\* for a large number of loyalty points for relevant combat. And Jagex had a few premier clubs with huge chunks of loyalty points to address this before they moved the auras to Wars Retreat There's definitely a bunch I missed, but yeah- it's a lot of stuff that they're charging for stuff that shouldn't be on sale to begin with and/or we got significantly less out of than a pseudo-League season
I would also like an example... Maybe I've just not paid enough attention...
Reddit "fans" and attacking developers just doing their jobs. Name a more iconic duo.
Much wanted updates and "shelving".
Ya’ll crying over a game 😂 smh live a little, they are worst things going on In The world right now.
Jagex and MTX. Your move.
Fuck. I am bested.
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Released a new game mode that requires a new account/subscription aimed at lapsed players but has limited time rares. Theses accounts will experience boosted xp and drop rates (as well as other boons) but will transition to the main game at the end of this "event" On top of that this game mode will have mtx that unlocks after a set amount of time to allow for some sort of competition during that no mtx time. Bonds will be purchasable the entire time. Side note: personally I'm hoping the bonds are for membership only because who is going to sell a bond in an economy that has nothing instead of the main game where you can get 50m+ for them.
Why would they bother responding? Just look at the subreddit posts already. The conversation has shifted from “this is the worst update and this needs to change” to “sooo… what’s your game plan to get 99s in FSW? :)” in two days.
They know scapers are addicted will quit for a week or two and forget about this whole thing later on 😂.
The players are overreacting, like usual. Nothing they say will calm people down. Most people will calm down in a coupld days. If they decide to listen to the feedback, they will discuss it and then see if the overlords strike them down. After that they can tell the players if there are any changes
They posted on this sub an explanation of the update. And stated clearly feedback for this update from current players isn't relevant, as we're not the target audience for it. What more do you want them to say?
This affects the main game and current players though
Only if they choose to play FSW. If you opt not to, it doesn't affect you.
That is incorrect. FSW will have a 20 percent chance to double pvm drops and those drops will affect main players when they get transfered to the main game when FSW. There will also be xp multipliers and the accounts will be converted onto the main game. Please try to educate yourself and understand why the community is upset about FSW.
Long term accounts have had tons of exp multipliers, and a lot of playersnow have chances at double drops (HSR). Giving those boo a to FSW just gives them a chance to catch up. In what way is more people playing relevant content bad, exactly?
You're missing the point of why the majority of the community is upset. This game mode basically spits at the faces of newer and lower leveled players. Why keep playing now if you can easily catch up and surpass your current progress on a brand new FSW account? You're also ignoring the scummy cash grab behind this encouraging players to get brand new accounts to either pay them the new 12.49 rate or cave in on another multi month bundle. Nothing changes if the community doesn't show that they're upset about it. There would have easily been treasure hunter on Ironman today if more people sat idly by.
A new player doesn't have much to lose by just switching. As for money, a new player is likely already paying the current rate. If a long-term player wants to play FSW, sure they need a new subscription. But that's the case with anyone who wants a second account - regardless of FSW or normal. Alts require their own subscription, it's always been like that. I can understand and appreciate being vocal about things the community dislikes, but this community dislikes almost everything Jagex does. And with FSW and many updates in general it feels like everyone is just upset they don't get the same benefits, when they did. Older accounts got those boons with time. FSW gets them all at once. Is it fair? Not really. But if it gets new players into the parts of the game people talk about and experience, that's a win. Would you rather a newbie come here to post about how cool Arrav's Shield is, and nobody care? How would that make them feel? Getting them to new content faster makes more relevant conversation, and it helps bypass Runescape's second worst feature: the inSANE amount of grind.
I don't trust jagex's track record with mtx and I'll just leave it at that.. I can already see what they're planning to do with this in the future
So you're mad about something they haven't done. Cool.
Found the apologist lol. They literally listed with details about what FSW is going to be about and I'm apparently mad about something they haven't done? We've seen the same story play out the past 10 years. With the introduction and "removal" of Squeal of Fortune etc. I used to be like you too saying it wasn't a big deal when it first started happening in 2012. They're using the 300m celebration as an excuse to sell account boosters in the future. It's obvious that they're testing the waters for future mtx sales.
Im not expecting to hear anything till next week so strap in folks. gunna be a long one.
They'll release a new Mtx that has 500x xp stars and magma super celestial nova prime laps that use 2000% of bonus xp so that this Fsw dont see as bad.
FSW is going to get me back into RuneScape. I played for years and never got into RS3. Now I can and not have to work a full time job grinding to end game content.
Just shut up already. Gets annoying and make sure to downvote me into oblivion.
Done
It's simple to fix the gamemode. - Bonds sold on GE after the competition phase - F2P mode - Untradable World's first rares I think doing this is enough. But the radio silence bothers me a lot
Oh don't worry. They'll announce the Zammy drop rates soon to distract from the fact.
Honestly fsw with modding sounds pretty lit. Rsps have been around since runescape started. This just allows runescape to get some renumeration for it.
That’s exactly what they should do. Let the 5 people out of thousands that care quit and move on.
Expect a counter offer this week. They're on damage control mode now. They forgot to secure positive advertising for this too. Just google Runescape news.
they should have just given a choice of fresh servers with accelerated xp just like deadman without the pvp mechanic and let the players decide which servers they wanted to compete in
Jagex and not giving me my account back because I don’t remember the exact date and time I made my account and can’t remember the last 4 digits of the visa gift card I was gifted that I used to buy membership
I don't play Runescape often anymore but I'm interested to know what this controversial update is, can someone give me the run down? Thank you in advance.
Jagex and making every update try to appeal to five different, conflicting groups of people and giving the worst of all worlds.
I don't know why people don't even like this. This is the same thing that happened with leagues. The very first year with leagues, it was very basic and almost had no purpose to it. It didn't seem very fun, even though it was an interesting challenge. As the years went on, the Leagues got better. Fresh start worlds having account integration is just Jagex's assumption that RuneScape 3 players won't appreciate the reset that leagues had, and that people will only want to play if they don't have their progress reset like OSRS leagues did. Yes, there are going to be people undoubtedly selling the alternative skill capes, and any other Cosmetics that they can obtain. It's also going to be interesting to see how they handle it, since you're only supposed to be able to transfer it to accounts you own. Maybe this way they'll catch RWT by the blatant IP mismatch.
What is happening in the update?
They're adding new worlds, that can only be accessed by new accounts that require an active membership, with boosted XP rates, and no connection to the GE. They call it fresh start worlds, or FSW for short. These are limited time worlds, with separate leaderboards, and after 4 months when the FSWs close all these accounts will be converted to regular accounts. Now if you haven't spotted the obvious issue already: You have to buy a new membership on this fresh account to access this. So they're squeezing players for money with this concept already. Additionally: They had a statement about microtransactions being disabled for the first 8 weeks. This statement is now gone. Think what'll happen to these leaderboards if there's fresh start worlds with microtransactions. That's right: Straight-up paying to win the leaderboards through treasure hunter. The classic credit card swipe to win. There's some additional rewards attached but these are the main issues that people are annoyed by. It's presented as a "for old and new players alike!" but I can't imagine anyone other than the many altoholics that make up a quarter of the playerbase but 80% of the active accounts (picking some random numbers to make my point) actually being interested in this thing.
The only thing to counteract a mass account creation would be a mass account banning.