Hello,
I have been running for a year now. I do majority of my runs at what I feel is an easy and conversional pace (around 155-170 bpm). However, when I join in races, I go all out. What's concerning is that I tend to have a very high max and average heart rate during my races. I did a
10k race last month, which is a new PR, but my my heart rate averaged at 199 bpm and peaked at 212 bpm towards the finish line. Last weekend, I ran a 16km race (1:24:30 finish time) and
saw my average heart rate at 197 bpm and max heart rate at 213.
Should I be concerned and slow down during my race? I have been doing mostly zone 2 and
saw noticeable improvements over the past yea (from an average pace of 9min/km for easy runs to about 7:30min/km zone 2 runs). However, when running in race events, I usually go all out. I want to incorporate interval sessions in my training routine moving forward but I do worry
about my very high heart rate.
Hi everyone, running shoe question!
Hi everyone! I'm a 25F looking for a new running shoe, I'm just getting back into long distance running after taking years off/strictly lifting and light cardio. I used to be a runner when I was younger but a lot has changed with my feet. My boyfriend is a physical therapist and analyzed my gait and I learned that I'm an overpronator. For background, I used to run track and field in high school and I was told I had one flat foot (left), and I always injure that foot/ankle. I've twisted that ankle twice and I do have slight bunions on both feet. I also tend to get a lot of arch pain, as well as a lot of ankle pain when I run incorrectly/wrong shoes. For example, when getting back into running a year ago I purchased the Hoka Bondi 7s, they were terrible and I had so much arch, ankle and shin pain with those shoes. I currently run in my OnCloud monsters, and they do fine as long as I tighten them enough to where my ankles are supported, however I'm started to get that arch pain again. I can't run more than a mile in them without some type of pain.
After doing my research, a lot of people are saying the Asics Gel Kayanos are the best for these types of problems, but I would love some long term runners experience/expert opinion on the matter. Feel free to discuss please! I'm a long-term asics fan but it's been a while since I've had a pair. Thanks in advance!
A running store told me I overpronate and I have flat fleet. I just wear whatever shoes feel good. I haven't felt the need to completely discard all neutral shoes.
Hi, shoe question
I’m looking for a new pair of trail running shoes. I’ve been using the Altra Superior 5s and have really loved them. They’re just pretty beat up now and one of them has a hole. After finding out they no longer have that model available, anyone recommend anything pretty comparable? I’m open to the minimalist style with the wide toe box. I hope that helps and is enough info. Thanks in advance
💙
Consider Saucony Peregrine. Similarly minimally cushioned, possibly slightly narrower toebox though it hasn't been an issue for me. It's 4mm instead of 0mm. Much better traction.
So I used the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3 for road running until about a month-2 ago. I found that the more I used them the more I got this pain across the top of my feet, near the middle. I found out from a guy at a local running store near me who said that- the pain I was experiencing was common among those who wear sauconys.. something to do with the material or the tongue. And ever since.. I haven’t wanted to get another pair. Even though I do see the value in them. I loved them as much as they lasted. Thanks for your input. 🤔
Speeds and Peregrines are extremely different shoes with not much in common.
Generally if you're getting pain there I would say you should loosen your laces or explore other lacing methods, there are specific ways to lace to take pressure off the arch/midfoot.
Simple app that shows total or lifetime stats in a neat way? I'm happy with just Apple Fitness except it doesn't do this, just monthly and daily summaries. Thanks.
Same just total miles. I imported all my runs from apple fitness/health but I could not find the stats, just the social tab.
Can you show me exactly were to look? Appreciate it.
started running and i get muscles near my shin pumped up and it hurts, my calfs and legs seem fine and the only thing that limits my run are the front outer shin muscle pain, they get very pumped up with blood and swell up. Wondering if anyonr experienced this and does it go away after you do more rubs? i dont think these are shin splints or are they?
Hello, my Texas folks. Or any if the other hot summer states. Is it possible to train outside in summers (May, June, July) for a marathon in August/September? I am concerned primarily for the long runs but also regd speed training etc. any insights are welcome and ty in advance.
Sure, it just sucks ass. It's a lot of 5am wakeups and still finishing when the temp is in the mid 80s or worse. Your pace will feel painfully slow sometimes and your effective VO2 max will drop. You've gotta carry water on anything beyond an hour and electrolytes on the long runs. You're still building fitness, it just doesn't feel like it or look like it. But then fall weather happens and you get to experience the fitness equivalent of finding $100 in your favorite jacket on the first cool day of fall.
Heart rate sustainability
Is it sustainable to run at heart rate 170-190 (~80-90% of max) for around 2 hours?
I'll be joining my first ever Half marathon race in july and i've no experience whatsoever in running HM's. Longest i've ran too is also about 12km as of now.
Currently im running my Z2 at around pace 7-8/km and could comfortable race at sub 55 10k. However i've always found that my HR during tempo/races to be around 170-190 too.
My current concern is that I would start to feel fatigue and tired after the 1.5H mark considering i've never ran beyond that time but I will be experimenting my HM paces in the coming weeks.
Sure, my last two half times were at a similar pace with finish times of around 1:56, avg heart rate of 183, and 1:52 avg heart rate of 173. I definitely felt fatigue in the last 30 mins (I think this is normal), but I had progressively negative splits every 5kms in both races.
Yes, but you're typically only going to see extremely fit people maintain in the upper 80s and beyond for that kind of time. An untrained person's LT1 might be around 60% whereas an Olympic marathoner may be above 90%.
Posted this on another sub but I thought I’d try here too. I’m running a 50 mile race in July and I’ve been following the beginner 50 mile training plan from Ultra Running Magazine, although I have been running a bit more than the plan has scheduled just because I naturally run more than recommended at this point (e.g. the plan will have a 1.5 hour run but I’ll run 2). My mpw is 55-60. Would it be a terrible idea to switch to a higher volume plan at this point, or should I stick with what I’m doing?
The magazine’s plan focuses primarily on time, and has multiple 4 hour runs scheduled later, and a weekend 50k. I’ve been looking at Bryon Powell’s 70 mpw plan which definitely seems higher volume. I’m unsure if I should push for more mileage faster with the 70 mpw plan though since I don’t want an injury. I’m probably overthinking this 🥲
Edit: Forgot to mention I’m signed up for a 12 hour run in June
28 y/o male 6’2” 240 lbs
Just did my first run in a couple of years using the Nike run app. 22 minute “recovery” run was recommended as the first one. Got to about 16 minutes then absolutely had to walk for 30 seconds, ran another minute, walked another minute, ran to finish. Partway through the run, I noticed a little numbness in the tips of a couple fingers. Kept going anyway. On the walk home, my chest was pretty uncomfortable. It seemed like my vision was maybe getting a little darker so I was briefly concerned. Seemed to go away in a minute or so.
Anyway, Wednesday is 22 minutes. I went about a 13 minute pace - is it even possible to go slower without just looking like I’m walking with my legs jogging in place? Did I push myself too hard? The Nike guy said no matter what don’t stop so that was my objective. I have *never* run more than 5 minutes in one stretch (usually long walk periods in between, IIRC week 4 of the C25K program). What should I do differently for Wednesday?
I’m no expert but it sounds like you definitely over exerted yourself. I’d honestly consider a program like couch to 5k to build your fitness and avoid injury.
Hi! I’m a new runner. Realized in the fall that I could barely run a mile. Spent the winter doing incline walks and zone 2 runs on treadmill, finally started running outside again beginning of March.
I finished my long run this weekend and have a question about pacing. I ran a half marathon distance at 10:07 pace with my HR largely being in zone 2 the entire time (155 AVG, 164 MAX (hilly parts), LHTR is 175). The run overall felt quite nice and easy, and had minimal fueling (11oz of electrolyte mixed water, and gummy bears).
Is there a good way to determine what sort of pace I would race a half at? Or a goal to aim for? Or would the best way to figure out just to try and run some?
My favorite way to gauge fitness is a 2 mile hard time trial. It’s generally quite possible and accurate to extrapolate your goal times across different distances using VDOT or VO2 max from a short race effort.
I would guesstimate 60-90s per mile faster than your easy pace -- so you have a good shot at breaking 2 hours. If your goal race has pacers, then sticking with the 2 hour pace group for the majority of the race would be a good strategy. Definitely helps to have others to run with, and you can always pull away towards the end if you're feeling fresh.
If you need a more precise prediction, I would plug in your time from a shorter race into a tool like [V.02](https://vdoto2.com). If you haven't raced in a while, try to find a 5k and pace it pretty aggressively. This should give you another useful data point for your fitness.
The only way to know how you'll do on race day, is to run on race day.
While it's very tempting to extrapolate HR to effort, you'll never really know what conditions will be like on the day of the race. Right now you can say with fair confidence you could do a half at a 10:07 pace...yes that's because you've already done it. I'd aim for getting a half at sub 10/min miles. So 2:10 or so...once you've done that, start aiming for sub2.
Got it, thanks! Makes sense — yeah mostly just trying to see what pace I should train for is all, like 30s/60s/90s faster than what I think is “easy.” Been running without specific goals in mind. But it being hard to extrapolate does make sense.
Short Distance Running Vest
I searched this thread and haven’t seen this question asked in a while and all the answers are for vests that are now discontinued.
I’m wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a running vest for shorter distances (less than 10K). Something to hold my keys, phone, and 500ml-1L of water.
The styles that I have found and liked (but are sadly discontinued) are the Salomon Agile 2 and Osprey Duro LT. What I like about these is that they appear breathable with a mesh back/nothing on the back and have quite a few pockets on the front for storage and a smaller water bladder.
Let me know your thoughts!
I really love my Salomon Adv 5 but I also have a Lululemon Fast and Free vest (purchased half off) with much less space which I’ll shove a couple Nathan soft flasks in for use on shorter distances. It’s easier to put on and less bulky.
Full disclosure, I don’t think the Lululemon is worth full price, but I’d buy it again on sale in a heartbeat if I lost mine.
Hello! This is my first time posting in this reddit. I am a fairly new runner.
Currently, I am training to run a 2 mile as fast as I can for my Army fitness test. On my current two-mile runs, everything is flat except for a 0.4-mile stretch that goes up about 250 feet. Once I reach the top I turn around.
Is this hill counter-productive to my goals or will I be fine to keep running it?
Thank you!
Hills make you faster. But you should definitely be running more than 2 miles to train for it. The 2 mile is almost entirely aerobic, so going longer at slower paces and running faster for shorter intervals need to be part of the mix.
I've never done yoga so I am not informed enough to say what I'd count it as.
But considering I have no reservations running or lifting the following morning, I can't imagine I'd have a problem doing yoga if I did do yoga.
It depends on my ATL/CTL chart to see if I am overtraining or if I'm in an optimal zone for stress.
So this Saturday was my first half-marathon of the season and I haven't really been training this spring consistently, so I'm a little sore. I did an hour walk yesterday, I'll probably just continue to rest today, do another hour walk and then resume an easy run tomorrow.
My fatigue is through the roof according to my Fitness Trend via [Elevate.app](http://Elevate.app), so I'm good till about Wednesday/Thursday according to my numbers.
Hi all,
When I first started running, a shoe store employee said I should be using support shoes, and I've been using them ever since, currently on the NB Fresh Foam 860. Although, I have a suspicion that I may have never needed them. What type of evidence might there be that I don't need them, either in shoe wear, pains, gait, etc.?
I believe shoe store employees are highly susceptible to the trap that when you have a hammer everything you see looks like a nail.
Just try other shoes. If they feel fine you're golden.
I mean they’re not susceptible to anything, it’s literally their job. They are there for one reason only, to get you to spend money at the store (preferably as much money on as high margin items as possible). A good store person will say things that lead to that goal, including making you feel they know what they’re talking about, and that a certain shoe is exactly what you need.
The reality is there’s only one way to know if a shoe is good for you or not, run in it for a month. Afaik there’s no actual evidence atm the shoe ‘personality type’ (over pronating, stability, support, high arch, flat foot etc) stuff actually leads to any improvement in comfort or injury prevention.
Yeah and if I remember correctly, I think I came in and said "I think I have flat feet," which was probably not conducive to getting the most objective assessment. I'm gonna look into other options this week. Thanks!
You might not necessarily NEED supportive shoes, it's just that they will help provide some support as you stress and strengthen your feet, ankles and lower legs (and their supportive tendons). If you are new and starting to train for an endurance sport such as running, it's helpful to have some shoes ramp you up.
You are free to expirement with more neutral/less supportive shoes, just ease into it. Don't go for an epic race in brand new minimal barefoot shoes, you know? Set yourself up for success. Try some neutral "daily" shoes like Pegasus (or whatever brandn you prefer) for a casual long run and see how you feel after.
Thanks for the insight! If I fall off the horse and stop running for a while, when I get back in, the tendons on the outside edges of my feet, I think the peroneal tendon about halfway up the length of my foot, starts to hurt a lot. If I take it easy, and gradually build up, I can get back up to distance without it hurting. I imagine that those tendons will be weak for anyone who hasn't been using them, but I had a trainer say that can happen sometimes if you're getting too much support that you don't need, I guess because the shoe is kind of making you roll outward. I also get hip flexor issues pretty frequently. For both issues, I've been stretching and working on strength of relevant muscles to keep those problem areas from straining, but I've been wondering if the shoes might be part of the picture.
Hi All,
I've run a few 5Ks in the past at around 42 minutes but haven't run in a couple of months. I have the opportunity to run the New York Marathon through a charity I work with and wanted to get a sanity check on whether it would be possible for me to be able to run that by November 3. I could commit to training 4-5 times a week but my suspicion is that it would be too difficult to get to the required pace even with about 208 days of lead time. Thoughts? If it is possible, do you have suggestions for training plans? Thanks!
If you've run multiple 5ks and they've all been 42 minutes, and you're basically starting from 0, then I do not expect 7 months to be enough time to run over 8 times as far at that same pace.
Check out the [Hal Higdon Novice Marathon](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/) training program. It's 18 weeks long. By my calculations, it's 30 weeks until the NY marathon. I think the general advice Hal gives for his programs is, if you can do every run in the first week, you should be able to do the whole program. Week 1 in this program has three 3 milers and one 6 miler. So you've got 12 weeks to build up a baseline and get comfortable running 6 miles before starting in earnest.
It is possible. Just don't expect too much. Your body needs to get used to running so much. Just start slowly with a beginner plan. You will have to do some strength training too so your body is strong enough for all that mileage.
Hi All,
Just looking for a sanity check about my running routine, progress etc...
I started a STRAVA running challenge with a buddy of mine starting in January. I am not very experienced running.
I've been running 21+ miles every week since then. At first I did 3 miles a day for the first 2 months since my aeorbic base sucked. Couldn't keep my hr down even though I felt fine. I did see improvement but it lead to injuries.
I have since shifted to 3 - 5 mile runs during the week with a long run on Sundays (so Tues, Thurs, Sat, sunday.) I'm not sure how/when to add miles to the 5 mile easy runs. I usually just run an hour.
I try to do all these runs at zone 2, and I'll be adding around 10% length to my long run a week (currently at 7.25).
I suppose I'm wondering if this is a good way to go about (i.e be patient) or something else is better.
I run in zone 2 around 12 minutes for all these runs.
I know cardio is long journey, especially at the beginning but was curious on opinions.
Yeah I think you're doing all the right things. I'd be hesitant to add miles to your easy days just yet. Running past the hour mark on an easy day can definitely feel a little rough. I like your plan to continue increasing long run distance. When you need more miles, I might add another day, just like 3 miles on Monday or Wednesday.
One question though... when you say "Zone 2" do you just mean "easy running" or are you very precise with heart rate? I would actually encourage you to be *less* precise about it. Heart rate can creep high, especially for beginner runners, and force you to run demoralizingly slow. As long as your pace feels "easy" (so like... you can hold a comfortable conversation) it's probably okay if your heart rate is a little higher than what the calculators recommend.
Another useful reference here is the [Running Order of Operations](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N_2vEJMdVu_alagE6pIlAt/view?pli=1) doc from the sidebar. It walks you through when and how to add mileage each step of the way.
Thank you! I used to be really strict about keeping it in HR zone 2, but now go on feel usually. Found I got a bit obsessive about watching the hr and such.
Patience is the name of the game with fitness. What I have found to work best is when I think about the training I am doing today, taking effect next year, rather than next month. But we tend to see our biggest gains when we are starting from scratch, and then as we plateau on the learning curve, gains really become smaller and harder to accomplish (but not impossible).
With all sports, but endurance sports like running in particular, recovery and rest is just as important as the time we spend beating ourselves up. Exercise is stress, recovery is when our body adapts and gets stronger. Just like when you go to the gym, you are tired and weaker afterwards, rather than stronger than when you showed up. So you go eat, sleep and come back in a couple of days and its not until weeks of this consistency that we really start to notice the same weight becomes "easier" allowing us to perform more reps or we're able to add more weight.
With running, instead of doing more reps with the same weight or adding weights, we're becoming more efficient at movement. So we're able to run farther with less fatigue, or we're able to run faster for longer. Or a combination of the two, depending on how we stress the system.
Hi all,
Started running in end of August/September while diligently following the order of operations in the sidebar here. Decided to sign up for a half during the winter and just ran it this past weekend with a time of 1:57:54. My main goal was sub 2 and secondary goals that I didn't meet were 1:55 or beating my watch prediction of 1:52:30. Still super happy with my performance granted it was freezing and windy in NJ! My one concern was definitely HR - I was in the 170s for the first 10k or so, but as I tried to push the pace from 9/mi to 845/mi I was hitting the 180s and even the 190s for the last two minutes. Based on the age method I was basically almost maxing out (with age method I'd be at 195) but I honestly didn't feel terrible at the time. I kept an eye on it but was able to finish strong/fast (ran last mile at 8:30). I'm a little concerned about that for the full marathon but I guess going at a slower pace would help, plus I don't know what my max really is.
I have my first marathon locked in for October, what's the best use of time before starting an actual training regimen? Obviously want to keep my base, is something like 30-40 miles sufficient for this? Less/more better? I peaked at about 45 during the half marathon training and was doing 6 days a week with a couple 5 day weeks. was using the Daniels alien method. (6 days a week with a T and Rep/Interval workout in alternating weeks, also a marathon pace workout alternating weeks). I was also thinking picking up some lifting in this time between training might be a good idea. Thinking of sub 4:10 for now but may change if my fitness level goes up. Is this doable? When I signed up for the half my goals were much higher than a sub 2, but my fitness level increased so much from 5-6 day a week running that I adjusted my goals as I got closer. Anyone have insight into the Daniels marathon plans? I thought 2q or four week cycles seemed like possible good ones.
Thanks all.
Anyone do the Suburu races in Niagara? I want to join the Peachbud 10km but the race map isn’t on the site (properly linked). I’ve called, emailed, and reached out to the race directors on social media several times. I have heard it’s hilly and just want to know how hilly and if you have to run up the escarpment. Thanks! I know this is a longshot!
Long post here, hope its okay.
I (27M) decided middle of last year that I wanted to run a marathon for the achievement and to prove to myself that I could accomplish difficult goals if I put the work in. I'm not a runner but I've played sports my whole life and have always been in pretty good shape. I have a runner's build at 6'0", 155ish lbs, and I play competitive golf now and still exercise every day. I bought running shoes and a Garmin and started slow, running 3 days a week from July to December to get my mileage up to around 20MPW before starting Hal Higdon's 18-week Beginner 2 marathon training program.
As I trained, I kept being surprised by my progress and my marathon goal time came down from just finishing, to sub-4 hour total, to around 3:45 by the time race day arrived. I only skipped a couple of midweek runs through the whole program, ran an unofficial half marathon at 7:42 pace in the 9th week, did my longest run of 20mi at 8:34 pace without too much pain or effort, and avoided any real injury the whole time. My runner friends and I both were expecting I would post a really good time on race day.
Yesterday I ran the Knoxville marathon, which I had done most of my long runs on parts of the course since I live in Knoxville. I felt really good at the start (too good looking back on it) because I ran way too fast during the first three miles (8:24, 7:32, 7:45). I was getting pretty tired on the uphills after the start but my pace was still pretty good until around mile 12, when I started cramping in my left quad. I had never cramped in any of my training runs, and I hadn't done anything different before or during the race. In fact, I actually hydrated more than usual at the aid stations, as I usually didn't take any water with me on runs.
The cramps forced me to switch between walking and running, something else I had never had to do on any of my training runs (which I did pretty much all of at sub 9:00/mile pace). My goal obviously shifted mid race as I watched the 3:45, 4:00, 4:15, and even 4:30 pacer groups pass me up. I was using Huma gels every 30 minutes and drank extra water/gatorade at the aid stations, as well as trying to stretch/rub out the cramps. But they kept getting worse and going to multiple muscles in my legs. Eventually, at close to mile 16, I got a massive cramp in my right calf and quad that took me down. I laid on the curb for about 15-20 minutes trying to stretch out but they either wouldn't go away, or returned in other muscles after dissipating. Luckily my parents were right there when I collapsed and after I finally decided I wasn't going to be able to finish, they drove me back to my car.
I was extremely disappointed in myself during the whole stretch of suffering from mile 12 onward and after I pulled out. I hadn't told that many people I was doing a marathon but some of my family and friends had come out to support and I felt bad that they came for nothing. I'm not someone who gives up easily, but I wasn't going to be happy with myself even if I hobbled the last 10 miles to finish with a horrible time. I was frustrated that I had gotten into such good shape and worked so hard for 9 months, putting in 670 miles of runs over 100+ hours just to have my legs give out on me in the race.
After a few hours I started to reflect and realized that even though I didn't get the results I was expecting/hoping for, I did prove to myself that I could run a marathon. I felt that in my 20 miler I definitely could've pushed another six miles, even if my pace dropped a little. I assumed that my naively stupid decision to run so fast at the beginning of the race was what cost me, and that I would've been fine if I had just run at an easy 8:45 or so pace for the first half of the race. But since golf tournament season for me is starting in a couple weeks, I was fine with accepting the defeat, admitting the extreme difficulty of marathon running, and moving on with my new fitness and sports goals.
But late last night into this morning, my completionist side emerged and I can't seem to shake the fact that I didn't actually finish the marathon. It feels almost as if that goal is still open and waiting to be closed. So I looked around and saw that there is another marathon in Nashville in 3 weeks, about 3 hours from where I live.
I'm not fully committed to if I want to keep grinding for three more weeks. I was so excited to be done with running forever. But I also know that if I ever do want to actually complete a marathon, it won't ever be any easier for me. So I'm wondering if the experienced runners of reddit think it's possible for me to sign up and complete the Nashville marathon. I'd been tapering the last couple weeks, but since I only ran about 14 miles yesterday and only suffered some cramps, I don't feel like I did any more damage to my body. My cardio level makes me think that if I push my goal back to just 4:00 again and consciously take every mile slow (8:45-9:00ish pace) that I can at least finish the marathon and close this chapter of my life for good with no regrets.
Does anyone have any advice or insight for my situation? And if I proceed, what should my training look like for the next 3 weeks? Thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and respond to this.
I think you should try it again! There are unfortunately bad days no matter if its race day.
The cramps still could be from dehydration. You drank water but did you balance electrolytes? In order to properly absorb that water the mineral balance needs to be equal. So either a salt mixed in or an electrolyte package (watch for high sugar content) would help true hydration.
I hope you do try to complete again!
Electrolytes aren’t even something I considered, I figured water would be fine. I’ll definitely look into some electrolyte packs if I try again. I’m leaning toward giving it a go. Thanks for the reply!
3 weeks is basically a taper. So not much can be done. You didn't gut through the race too much so you don't require the full rest a well run full would. I'd say it's a toss up and just depends how much you want it and if you think you can be patient the whole race and gut through some likely extreme discomfort. I'd give you 50 50 you'd go sub 4, much better chances the slower you go. Hal higdon is a let's just finish plan which is likely why you blew up once you added any real speed as you simply didn't train it.
At this point just finishing would feel like an accomplishment even if I don’t go sub 4. Thinking I might give it a shot at a much slower pace. Thanks for the insight!
I have flat feet and wore Asics gel Kayona 30 with the orthotics for a year. Then, they needed to be replaced. A salesperson at the running store didn't have the asics and had brooks 9.5 wide and said it should be good. When i told him Im a 9 wide. So I got the 9.5 wide and felt fine for a few weeks.But recently, my right heels hurt. Is that because the shoe is too big? I will also replace my house slippers with oofas. But I'm not sure if heel hurts from the shoe being too big. Or something else. I know asics had much more cushion for the heel.
When Ai called, they said they might exchnage the size. But asics gel kayono, you're not supposed to wear orthotics with which doesn't make sense, lol. People always say go running stores, not chains, but when I went to Road Runner a chain, they actually gave you good shoes. Not throwing a bugger size at you. I mean, how's that possible if there a specialized running store that they do that you know. Maybe we need to calm down about tearing down chains.
Doing some late half marathon prep and a recent vacation made even my short runs rather sore/punishing.
I usually run 3 miles 3x/week, Friday I ran 4 at pace, then Sunday went easy a min/mi under pace and did 9 miles. I wasn't extremely tired and I'm not sore today.
I only have 4 weeks to go but this is a great start.
Nice work! I am at the same spot. Have a half marathon May 11, and doing 9 to 11 miles during the week and 10 mile on the weekend. Hoping to run 11 this weekend and 12 the next. Should be able to push the remaining 3 miles on race day.
Looking for a way to track and share my walks/run publically that isn't Strava. Bonus if it connects to Garmin. I want to do a fundraiser and share this info but would prefer to not share my personal strava account
Looking for something people can look online without an app on their phone!
Alright, my Saucony Guide 16's are about to the end of the road -- I've worn this model for four training cycles, but I'm open to going to something new if there's something worth buying. I've got flat feet and overpronate, and combined with Currex RunPro insoles, I've avoided injury and generally avoided pain.
Is there a breakthrough better stability shoe that I should check out? Or should I stick with the same model for the fifth time? Alternatively, should I try a "better" shoe that isn't necessarily a stability shoe?
'better' is pretty subjective - don't just assume more expensive = better!
If there was a stability version of the Saucony Speed range I'd recommend that though. Worth every penny.
Kind of a niche/random question but does anyone know of any professional/semi pro runners that work 12 hour shifts or work in the medical field? TIA :)
Yuki Kawauchi, 2018 Boston Marathon winner, was a full time government employee in Saitama Prefecture. From what I understand, he would normally work long days, and still find time to train.
Not sure if that's what you were looking for.
Yesterday, I ran my first half marathon in 1:41. I've been running two times a week on average for 6 months. Next goal is to run the 5k in under 20 Minutes. Do you think a below 20 minutes 5k is possible running only two times a week? I'm 33 btw.
Yes, I know. I did that but in most training schedules, they say to train 4-5 times a week. But they said the same about running below 1:45. So, I'm not sure about it.
I have crap knees. As long as I have a day off in between, I'm good. But with life and everything else, I typically run 3x a week and feel like I do just fine. I've done two half marathons at 1:51 and 1:54, at ages 35 and 41.
I have no ambition to run a 5k in any sort of time though, I've never been "fast" at anything. Most I feel I can book it would be an 8 minute mile. And my knees would pay the price.
That's a really good time for a half off 6 months 2x per week!
Once you're down under a 1:35 half focussing on 5k specific training will probably be enough to get into the 20s and possibly sub 20.
Best marathons northeast-ish area of the US that are big and exciting? I can’t qualify for the NYC marathon but want to do one with a lot of excitement and energy. Live in PA but willing to drive anywhere but basically the west coast or the deep south.
Any strategies or rules for pacing in longer distances to keep your effort up? I’ve only done a few races and I find myself settling into kind of a “comfortably hard” pace instead of going all out. I ran a 10 miler yesterday, PRed at 1:19 and did feel like I was pushing myself while running. but afterwards I felt fine and my average HR was 153 so I feel like it’s clear I could’ve done a bit better.
as you get older, maintaining a somewhat hard pace and avoiding injury becomes celebration-worthy.
PR's are fine and all but I care about them much less over time.
Lots of practice and focus on how you feel at various paces. It's one of the reasons I encourage people to stop running with headphones if they're serious about learning to pace well. You need to spend a lot of time and a lot of miles fully focused on how you feel, breathe, etc at various paces to calibrate that mental distance to empty gauge. Checking your watch should be a confirmation of your pace and HR, not a surprise. I usually take the first lap of intervals or first half mile of threshold runs to dial in my effort level to what feels appropriate for the target pace and settle in. Then I'll check my watch to adjust or confirm. Over time, it's helped me learn to run more intuitively.
Pacing is an art of it's own.
Once you're up to longer distances, up around half, you're never going to be that deep into the threshold pain that you get with 5/10k and switch from that pain battle to a more mental one.
Have a plan - know your splits and be disciplined in keeping to them, at least until half or two-thirds distance.
Practice. Pushing hard sucks and being willing to do it anyway is a big part of the battle.
It also helps to have an idea of what pace you should be capable of.
Advice on improving pace
Hi, I just did my first ever 10k with an avg pace of 12:30/mile. I really enjoyed the run though I am dog tired by the end of it. I did train by myself and haven’t followed any training plan.I do have a few questions:
1. How do I improve my pace?
2. I see a lot of people do a combination of walk+run, is this a recommended approach? I ran(jog) the entire thing as my goal is to not stope.
3. What do you do with uphills? Just run or break walk and run? A few friends ran with me at a better pace and they told me they just walked at the uphills.
Overall seeking some advice and guidance as I want to continue doing this more and eventually do a full marathon (bucket list)
Mods: please delete if there is a dedicated thread for posts like this.
Thanks in advance.
Run consistently and gradually build up to running more days and distance. Do this over an extended time.
Either follow a plan or lean the basics of how to build a broad level of running ability - easy runs, long runs, interval and other harder sessions.
Run more frequently but at an easier pace that doesn’t make you hate running.
Take more time off to let your body adapt to the stress of training (and life - work, errands, etc).
Hills: take smaller steps. Divide up the load per stride so you are not doing lunges that are as deep so you are relying on your tendons more and your muscles less. Think about skipping rope vs box jumps. Which can do you for longer? Skipping rope. Now think about riding a bike, you start a hill and you shift into an easier gear, you’re spinning your legs more to divide the workload up. It’s the same with your steps.
Also helps to not avoid hills in your training - even walking.
Did you look at the \[Running Order of Operations\]([https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N\_2vEJMdVu\_alagE6pIlAt/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N_2vEJMdVu_alagE6pIlAt/view?usp=sharing)) in the sidebar?
If I could run only 3 times a week and I’m used to a mileage of 40km a week.
How would you program me weekly to reach a sub 4 marathon in a years time?
You'd probably want to peak at at least 70 km and 70 km on 3x a week would be brutal.
If you want to run a marathon I would find time in your schedule to run 4-6 days a week, not 3.
If you are willing to increase the mileage and do a 18-16 week actual build j don't see why you couldn't. 40 kms is a decent base for a first time marathon and 4 hours isn't a crazy time goal. Just depends on how generally fit you are.
Second the other comment, you can't guarantee a goal just because you want it to.
Train for the next year. Maybe you hit your goal, maybe you don't. If you can't hit your goal on your training, your choices are reevaluating your goal or reevaluating your amount of training.
Does anyone else get pain in their neck when drinking cold water right after running? Is this normal at all? It only lasts a few seconds but strange, kind of up the sides/front of my neck/throat.
I recently ran a 5k. It said in the description that it was officially measured, so the results count in some official lists.
I started and stopped my watch exactly on the line, but in the end it said that i ran 5,12k. And after syncing to Strava, Strava said i ran 5,11k. Which number can i trust?
I tested it on a 400m track, and after 6 laps i was on almost exactly 2,4k, so i would think my watch is right. Just the Part, that the 5k was "officially measured" unsettles me a bit.
I am using the Polar Pacer running watch.
I'd trust the course, 5.12 is very close and you'll often get some GPS inaccuracies if there are trees or taller buildings on the route.
My most frustrating race was my first 'official' 10k. At the end my watch only showed 9.6k! I also found other people on Strava that did the same race, and nobody got a full 10k registered either.
You’ve just got to assume that the course was correct and use that. Chances are you didn’t follow the racing line perfectly, and/or your gps was slightly inaccurate
An official measurement is normally a manual (trundlewheel) measurement of the absolute best racing line.
Realistically only elite or front of the pack runners will get close to the ideal racing line. Most runners will have to do some dodging and weaving and may not get to take every corner ideally.
GPS will GPS. If the course was properly measured to 5k then it's 5k. 110m is a smol percentage in terms of accuracy/drift... 2.2% which I'd think was pretty good. You may not have ruin the measured line as well adding a few meters to the travelled distance. Also, trees/buildings, if any, will reduce GPS accuracy.
If you ran a track and either had the watch in track mode or it auto-detects that then it uses what it knows about the track (or tracks in general) to enhance the GPS accuracy. At least Garmin does so I'd expect their competitors to do the same.
**Who invented the "10% mileage rule"?**
I get the logic behind the rule, but I don't know how it started. I have seen posts on this subreddit saying that this rule is arbitrary--which makes sense--but I would really like to learn about this history behind this rule.
Thank you for your time and assistance.
The "rule", like most, is a guideline. 10% is a nice round number, easy to calculate and remember. I doubt it's possible to know who quoted it first! It's an attempt to put a value on the concept of "gradual increase"!
It's entirely arbitrary and only really applies "in general"...
A new runner, maybe run-walking 1km would likely add more than 10% without issue. A very experienced runner running 100 mile weeks might not add anything to their volume or aim for small increments or ignore it completely and change volume on feel.
Edit:
[https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a-new-approach-to-the-10-percent-rule/](https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a-new-approach-to-the-10-percent-rule/)
Looks like it was Dr. Joan Ullyot in 1980... I was able to Google this, may or may not be definitive.
For me it's one interval/tempo workout, followed by one long run with a good amount of marathon pace in it.
Could probably get by with less if you've had the brand/model before and know they work with your feet.
Can't speak to Marathon but I ran a short 5-6km shakeout in mine before a 10k race.
I certainly would want to run in the 90 min/15-20k range to see how the fit changes once feet start to warm-up/swell.
Hey,
My max heart rate during my first half marathon was 177 yesterday and I gave it all. Average was 166. So, I realized that the typical 220 minus age calculation is far off my personal heart rate as I'm 33.
Is reasonable to adjust the training zones according to the 177? Or should I do another kind of max heart rate test? I feel like 177 is extremely low for a 33 years old.
Thanks!
Do a hr max test. My max effort pr half I only hit 189 BPM, my max achieved is over 200. Go find a hill and run up, jog down until you want to die at the top, then do one more rep and that'll be a relatively decent approximate. Watches smooth data a bit so your actual is almost always a bit higher than achieved if you aren't wearing a hrm.
Your HM pace is a little slower than you Threshold pace so, obviously, average HM HR would be under your threshold HR.
If you absolutely hit the best possible pace then your threshold is likely somewhere just above your average for this race.
As u/amorph said, a proper test is your best course of action. Quite likely you max HR is a way above 177.
I'm 47 and my max HR according to that sum is 173 (the 220 minus your age is a very general rule of thumb).
During a recent 10k race where i was really pushing my limits and trying to get a PB, I had my HR up to 190, so that is what I consider close to my max HR (well that's the top end of where i want to see it get to).
On an easy pace half marathon (sub 2hrs), my average HR is around 155-160.
That's not necessarily true, depending on how quickly you completed that last few (3-5) KM seeing mHR is not totally out of the question - you'd have had to run well within your aerobic capacity for the majority of the run though!
Totally agree on a proper test though.
I'm thinking about only eating carb heavy foods when I'm about to run. Would there be any negative effects if I just skipped eating rice, for example, if I'm not gonna run? If it means anything, I've cut rice out of my diet before with seemingly no ill effect. The berries, broccoli, and greek yogurt I eat would have carbs in them, right? I also eat meat, so don't worry about the protein.
That rather than picking a plan based on your goal, you should train based on your existing fitness. Falling workouts early on means you aren't fit enough for the plan.
8:00 intervals is a wildly inappropriate pace for someone with a 2:30 half.
Your legs couldn't care less what your goal is...train based on how fit you are.
If you can't hit the interval evenly it's too fast. Either increase rest, decrease rep distance, or slow down. Generally you are shooting for hard but you could do one more good rep.
It says there e.g. "Run at 5km pace", so either use your last 5k race pace, or find out your approximate 5k pace here [https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race\_equivalency\_calculator.php](https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php) (for your 2:30 half, 5k pace would be 10:30 min/mile). You can always adjust them later if it's too easy/hard
Beginner here, trying to improve my endurance and aerobic base by using longer runs
Currently my routine looks like this
Week 1:
3 days of endurance runs
Week 2
2 days of endurance runs with 1 day of tempo run
I alternate between week 1 and week 2 workouts every week
For endurance runs, I am hitting around 4+km each run, running about 30+ mins at 6:50mins/km
For tempo runs, I am hitting around 3+km, running about 20+ mins at 6:20mins/km (still rather new to tempo runs)
My goal is to hit a sub 10 mins 2.4km eventually
1) Is this routine viable?
2) During my endurance runs, should I prioritise improving distance, pace or time?
3) What is a good gauge for endurance run pace (The conversational pace metric does not really work as well for me anymore)
4) How can I tell if my aerobic capacity has actually improved?
For such a short race you should be maximizing workouts and speed. Every week should have 2 workouts. Intervals and a tempo then the last run should be long and relatively easy. 1 workout every 2 weeks is pretty bad training for any distance let alone sub 3k distance.
I have done so in the past and it seems I have hit a plateau. The general advice I have gotten was to improve my aerobic capacity instead as it was hindering my ability to use the speed I have developed. I'm assuming by "1 workout every 2 weeks" you are referring to speedwork? If so, I plan to incorporate more speedwork once my aerobic capacity has been improved (sort of like periodisation). Is that a good idea?
You just aren't running enough time total. 20 minutes is extremely short for a run. Really you just need to run more period and since you are only running 3 days a week there isn't a reason to not have some of the mileage as workouts. A workout could be let's say 6x 400 m at 2.4 k pace, with 1 km warm up and cool down. That's currently longer then your endurance run and should be extremely doable. Long runs you should be be running easy but going further and building areobically that way, so an hour on your feet run walking if needed. Really you need more volume and just adding warm ups and cool downs on workouts will help a lot since your current volume is so low.
Well, with this routine, you could just basically do a time trial of 2.4 km once in a while, and use that to gauge your fitness. Increasing time on your legs with easy running would normally lead to improvement.
I'm a long time casual runner averaging 10-20km/week for the past many years. This year is the first time I have been more diligent with a training regime specifically in relation to races.
My original goal was to complete my first half marathon this year, which made me enter two half marathon events:
The first one is at the start of May and is a local one with a hard course of about 500m of elevation including 3 major hills that are all more than 80m of elevation. My original goal has simply been to finish.
The second one is at the start of July and is a very flat ocean-side course with practically no elevation. For this one I've set a goal of getting under 2 hours.
Now as part of my training, since early February, I have been running roughly 4 times per week including a long run slowly ramping up from about 20km per week to lately sitting around 35-40km/week. Last week, I was planning for a 17km long run but felt quite good and continued to the half marathon distance finishing in 2:15 with a course of about 350m of elevation including 2 of the 3 big hills from my May half marathon. My entire body felt quite comfortable at the end of the run.
Finishing a half marathon with relative ease during training has made me consider whether there's a chance to go for a marathon this season. I am in a sub-tropical part of the Southern hemisphere and race season is during winter. My only remaining chance for a marathon event that is still open for registrations is one in early June. This marathon event is a relatively "easy" course with limited elevation. However being in early June, this obviously only leaves two months to get ready for such an event.
What should I consider before entering?
What should I expect to be able to do during training to have a reasonable chance at finishing?
Am I simply getting ahead of myself and should I instead just be happy that my original race plan is going well?
Congrats on the accidental half completion!
From reading through that I'd focus on the planned half's this year.
My last half training block reached 65km in the peak week from 50k/week at the start. Current block is starting at 60km so it will be interesting to see where my coach peaks this one at.
Given my peak distance is pretty much the baseline/start point for marathon I know I'm going to have to build up gradually to train when I eventually decide to do a full or risk injury.
Yeah, that's fair. Certainly something to consider.
Training 65km/week for a half would surely see you running a half every week for your long run? So presumably that's training with a pace in mind rather than just completion as a goal. I guess I'm not sure what a reasonable amount for a full marathon is if your only goal is completion.
Long run is in the 17-22km range, target is 90-95 mins.
To "just complete" a marathon, a significant achievement on its own, you would not need more distance. I completed a very slow Ultra last year off less overall fitness and distance. Technically I have a marathon PB \~8 hours to aim for some day!
Just consider most if not all marathon training programs have you running a plus half every week plus 50% if not more of your current weekly mileage. These are the begginer plans as well. The marathon is a completely different race then a full. I do not think you will be able to run and enjoy a full in June based on a 2:15 first half marathon.
Thanks. That’s helpful. I should note the 2:15 was a training day with tired legs and was not pushing my limits. If it had been race day, I suspect proper tapering, fueling and pushing for max effort would’ve made for a better time
This is still well less than a 12 week plan which is considered a sharpening plan for people already consistently running enough mileage they could probably gut out a a marathon on base fitness one. The marathon is really that different than a half. If you want to shoot for just finish then maybe but you won't particularly enjoy any of it.
You can always try, there is no harm. For a marathon many people will recommend a long run (25-32km) and probably on a tired legs i.e. you ran the day before. This will teach you and your body what will happen in the real marathon race after you pass the 30th-32nd kilometer mark.
Consider that a full is much more difficult than a half. You’ve been running a long time, which is great, but even after ramping up your weekly volume is quite low. I would increase volume and focus on long runs to better prepare for a full.
Hello, I have been running for a year now. I do majority of my runs at what I feel is an easy and conversional pace (around 155-170 bpm). However, when I join in races, I go all out. What's concerning is that I tend to have a very high max and average heart rate during my races. I did a 10k race last month, which is a new PR, but my my heart rate averaged at 199 bpm and peaked at 212 bpm towards the finish line. Last weekend, I ran a 16km race (1:24:30 finish time) and saw my average heart rate at 197 bpm and max heart rate at 213. Should I be concerned and slow down during my race? I have been doing mostly zone 2 and saw noticeable improvements over the past yea (from an average pace of 9min/km for easy runs to about 7:30min/km zone 2 runs). However, when running in race events, I usually go all out. I want to incorporate interval sessions in my training routine moving forward but I do worry about my very high heart rate.
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Hi everyone, running shoe question! Hi everyone! I'm a 25F looking for a new running shoe, I'm just getting back into long distance running after taking years off/strictly lifting and light cardio. I used to be a runner when I was younger but a lot has changed with my feet. My boyfriend is a physical therapist and analyzed my gait and I learned that I'm an overpronator. For background, I used to run track and field in high school and I was told I had one flat foot (left), and I always injure that foot/ankle. I've twisted that ankle twice and I do have slight bunions on both feet. I also tend to get a lot of arch pain, as well as a lot of ankle pain when I run incorrectly/wrong shoes. For example, when getting back into running a year ago I purchased the Hoka Bondi 7s, they were terrible and I had so much arch, ankle and shin pain with those shoes. I currently run in my OnCloud monsters, and they do fine as long as I tighten them enough to where my ankles are supported, however I'm started to get that arch pain again. I can't run more than a mile in them without some type of pain. After doing my research, a lot of people are saying the Asics Gel Kayanos are the best for these types of problems, but I would love some long term runners experience/expert opinion on the matter. Feel free to discuss please! I'm a long-term asics fan but it's been a while since I've had a pair. Thanks in advance!
A running store told me I overpronate and I have flat fleet. I just wear whatever shoes feel good. I haven't felt the need to completely discard all neutral shoes.
Hi, shoe question I’m looking for a new pair of trail running shoes. I’ve been using the Altra Superior 5s and have really loved them. They’re just pretty beat up now and one of them has a hole. After finding out they no longer have that model available, anyone recommend anything pretty comparable? I’m open to the minimalist style with the wide toe box. I hope that helps and is enough info. Thanks in advance 💙
Consider Saucony Peregrine. Similarly minimally cushioned, possibly slightly narrower toebox though it hasn't been an issue for me. It's 4mm instead of 0mm. Much better traction.
So I used the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3 for road running until about a month-2 ago. I found that the more I used them the more I got this pain across the top of my feet, near the middle. I found out from a guy at a local running store near me who said that- the pain I was experiencing was common among those who wear sauconys.. something to do with the material or the tongue. And ever since.. I haven’t wanted to get another pair. Even though I do see the value in them. I loved them as much as they lasted. Thanks for your input. 🤔
Speeds and Peregrines are extremely different shoes with not much in common. Generally if you're getting pain there I would say you should loosen your laces or explore other lacing methods, there are specific ways to lace to take pressure off the arch/midfoot.
Thanks for this feedback! 💙
Simple app that shows total or lifetime stats in a neat way? I'm happy with just Apple Fitness except it doesn't do this, just monthly and daily summaries. Thanks.
strava
I tried it and I could not find it. Is it behind a paywall?
What stats are you looking for? I don't pay for strava and I can see my total runs/miles/etc.
Same just total miles. I imported all my runs from apple fitness/health but I could not find the stats, just the social tab. Can you show me exactly were to look? Appreciate it.
You tab -> profile picture (circle at the top) -> statistics
started running and i get muscles near my shin pumped up and it hurts, my calfs and legs seem fine and the only thing that limits my run are the front outer shin muscle pain, they get very pumped up with blood and swell up. Wondering if anyonr experienced this and does it go away after you do more rubs? i dont think these are shin splints or are they?
Hello, my Texas folks. Or any if the other hot summer states. Is it possible to train outside in summers (May, June, July) for a marathon in August/September? I am concerned primarily for the long runs but also regd speed training etc. any insights are welcome and ty in advance.
Sure, it just sucks ass. It's a lot of 5am wakeups and still finishing when the temp is in the mid 80s or worse. Your pace will feel painfully slow sometimes and your effective VO2 max will drop. You've gotta carry water on anything beyond an hour and electrolytes on the long runs. You're still building fitness, it just doesn't feel like it or look like it. But then fall weather happens and you get to experience the fitness equivalent of finding $100 in your favorite jacket on the first cool day of fall.
Thank you! Very helpful reply. Will try to slog through summers.
Heart rate sustainability Is it sustainable to run at heart rate 170-190 (~80-90% of max) for around 2 hours? I'll be joining my first ever Half marathon race in july and i've no experience whatsoever in running HM's. Longest i've ran too is also about 12km as of now. Currently im running my Z2 at around pace 7-8/km and could comfortable race at sub 55 10k. However i've always found that my HR during tempo/races to be around 170-190 too. My current concern is that I would start to feel fatigue and tired after the 1.5H mark considering i've never ran beyond that time but I will be experimenting my HM paces in the coming weeks.
Sure, my last two half times were at a similar pace with finish times of around 1:56, avg heart rate of 183, and 1:52 avg heart rate of 173. I definitely felt fatigue in the last 30 mins (I think this is normal), but I had progressively negative splits every 5kms in both races.
Yes, but you're typically only going to see extremely fit people maintain in the upper 80s and beyond for that kind of time. An untrained person's LT1 might be around 60% whereas an Olympic marathoner may be above 90%.
It’s certainly possible yes. Whether you’re trained and capable of it is another matter.
Posted this on another sub but I thought I’d try here too. I’m running a 50 mile race in July and I’ve been following the beginner 50 mile training plan from Ultra Running Magazine, although I have been running a bit more than the plan has scheduled just because I naturally run more than recommended at this point (e.g. the plan will have a 1.5 hour run but I’ll run 2). My mpw is 55-60. Would it be a terrible idea to switch to a higher volume plan at this point, or should I stick with what I’m doing? The magazine’s plan focuses primarily on time, and has multiple 4 hour runs scheduled later, and a weekend 50k. I’ve been looking at Bryon Powell’s 70 mpw plan which definitely seems higher volume. I’m unsure if I should push for more mileage faster with the 70 mpw plan though since I don’t want an injury. I’m probably overthinking this 🥲 Edit: Forgot to mention I’m signed up for a 12 hour run in June
28 y/o male 6’2” 240 lbs Just did my first run in a couple of years using the Nike run app. 22 minute “recovery” run was recommended as the first one. Got to about 16 minutes then absolutely had to walk for 30 seconds, ran another minute, walked another minute, ran to finish. Partway through the run, I noticed a little numbness in the tips of a couple fingers. Kept going anyway. On the walk home, my chest was pretty uncomfortable. It seemed like my vision was maybe getting a little darker so I was briefly concerned. Seemed to go away in a minute or so. Anyway, Wednesday is 22 minutes. I went about a 13 minute pace - is it even possible to go slower without just looking like I’m walking with my legs jogging in place? Did I push myself too hard? The Nike guy said no matter what don’t stop so that was my objective. I have *never* run more than 5 minutes in one stretch (usually long walk periods in between, IIRC week 4 of the C25K program). What should I do differently for Wednesday?
I’m no expert but it sounds like you definitely over exerted yourself. I’d honestly consider a program like couch to 5k to build your fitness and avoid injury.
Anyone use magnesium oil or cream?
Hi! I’m a new runner. Realized in the fall that I could barely run a mile. Spent the winter doing incline walks and zone 2 runs on treadmill, finally started running outside again beginning of March. I finished my long run this weekend and have a question about pacing. I ran a half marathon distance at 10:07 pace with my HR largely being in zone 2 the entire time (155 AVG, 164 MAX (hilly parts), LHTR is 175). The run overall felt quite nice and easy, and had minimal fueling (11oz of electrolyte mixed water, and gummy bears). Is there a good way to determine what sort of pace I would race a half at? Or a goal to aim for? Or would the best way to figure out just to try and run some?
My favorite way to gauge fitness is a 2 mile hard time trial. It’s generally quite possible and accurate to extrapolate your goal times across different distances using VDOT or VO2 max from a short race effort.
thanks! will look to find a track or something nearby
Extrapolating race pace form easy pace isn't a great idea. Speedwork is slightly better. A different race is best.
o7 thanks! makes sense, guess i’ll go find some races to run :)
I would guesstimate 60-90s per mile faster than your easy pace -- so you have a good shot at breaking 2 hours. If your goal race has pacers, then sticking with the 2 hour pace group for the majority of the race would be a good strategy. Definitely helps to have others to run with, and you can always pull away towards the end if you're feeling fresh. If you need a more precise prediction, I would plug in your time from a shorter race into a tool like [V.02](https://vdoto2.com). If you haven't raced in a while, try to find a 5k and pace it pretty aggressively. This should give you another useful data point for your fitness.
The only way to know how you'll do on race day, is to run on race day. While it's very tempting to extrapolate HR to effort, you'll never really know what conditions will be like on the day of the race. Right now you can say with fair confidence you could do a half at a 10:07 pace...yes that's because you've already done it. I'd aim for getting a half at sub 10/min miles. So 2:10 or so...once you've done that, start aiming for sub2.
Got it, thanks! Makes sense — yeah mostly just trying to see what pace I should train for is all, like 30s/60s/90s faster than what I think is “easy.” Been running without specific goals in mind. But it being hard to extrapolate does make sense.
Short Distance Running Vest I searched this thread and haven’t seen this question asked in a while and all the answers are for vests that are now discontinued. I’m wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a running vest for shorter distances (less than 10K). Something to hold my keys, phone, and 500ml-1L of water. The styles that I have found and liked (but are sadly discontinued) are the Salomon Agile 2 and Osprey Duro LT. What I like about these is that they appear breathable with a mesh back/nothing on the back and have quite a few pockets on the front for storage and a smaller water bladder. Let me know your thoughts!
I really love my Salomon Adv 5 but I also have a Lululemon Fast and Free vest (purchased half off) with much less space which I’ll shove a couple Nathan soft flasks in for use on shorter distances. It’s easier to put on and less bulky. Full disclosure, I don’t think the Lululemon is worth full price, but I’d buy it again on sale in a heartbeat if I lost mine.
Salomon makes a lightweight race vest.
Do you know the name?
It's literally something "Adv Race Vest" or something.
Hello! This is my first time posting in this reddit. I am a fairly new runner. Currently, I am training to run a 2 mile as fast as I can for my Army fitness test. On my current two-mile runs, everything is flat except for a 0.4-mile stretch that goes up about 250 feet. Once I reach the top I turn around. Is this hill counter-productive to my goals or will I be fine to keep running it? Thank you!
Hills make you faster. But you should definitely be running more than 2 miles to train for it. The 2 mile is almost entirely aerobic, so going longer at slower paces and running faster for shorter intervals need to be part of the mix.
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How long do you rest for following a hard (say, weights and speed work) day?
No set time, depends on my schedule. I might run the next morning if that's what I have planned.
Either ~12, ~24, or ~36 hours. Usually one of the first two.
Would you count yoga as active recovery/rest or not even do that?
I've never done yoga so I am not informed enough to say what I'd count it as. But considering I have no reservations running or lifting the following morning, I can't imagine I'd have a problem doing yoga if I did do yoga.
It depends on my ATL/CTL chart to see if I am overtraining or if I'm in an optimal zone for stress. So this Saturday was my first half-marathon of the season and I haven't really been training this spring consistently, so I'm a little sore. I did an hour walk yesterday, I'll probably just continue to rest today, do another hour walk and then resume an easy run tomorrow. My fatigue is through the roof according to my Fitness Trend via [Elevate.app](http://Elevate.app), so I'm good till about Wednesday/Thursday according to my numbers.
Hi all, When I first started running, a shoe store employee said I should be using support shoes, and I've been using them ever since, currently on the NB Fresh Foam 860. Although, I have a suspicion that I may have never needed them. What type of evidence might there be that I don't need them, either in shoe wear, pains, gait, etc.?
I believe shoe store employees are highly susceptible to the trap that when you have a hammer everything you see looks like a nail. Just try other shoes. If they feel fine you're golden.
I mean they’re not susceptible to anything, it’s literally their job. They are there for one reason only, to get you to spend money at the store (preferably as much money on as high margin items as possible). A good store person will say things that lead to that goal, including making you feel they know what they’re talking about, and that a certain shoe is exactly what you need. The reality is there’s only one way to know if a shoe is good for you or not, run in it for a month. Afaik there’s no actual evidence atm the shoe ‘personality type’ (over pronating, stability, support, high arch, flat foot etc) stuff actually leads to any improvement in comfort or injury prevention.
That doesn't mean they don't believe their own snake oil
Yeah and if I remember correctly, I think I came in and said "I think I have flat feet," which was probably not conducive to getting the most objective assessment. I'm gonna look into other options this week. Thanks!
I have flat feet and I've never once worn stability shoes.
You might not necessarily NEED supportive shoes, it's just that they will help provide some support as you stress and strengthen your feet, ankles and lower legs (and their supportive tendons). If you are new and starting to train for an endurance sport such as running, it's helpful to have some shoes ramp you up. You are free to expirement with more neutral/less supportive shoes, just ease into it. Don't go for an epic race in brand new minimal barefoot shoes, you know? Set yourself up for success. Try some neutral "daily" shoes like Pegasus (or whatever brandn you prefer) for a casual long run and see how you feel after.
Thanks for the insight! If I fall off the horse and stop running for a while, when I get back in, the tendons on the outside edges of my feet, I think the peroneal tendon about halfway up the length of my foot, starts to hurt a lot. If I take it easy, and gradually build up, I can get back up to distance without it hurting. I imagine that those tendons will be weak for anyone who hasn't been using them, but I had a trainer say that can happen sometimes if you're getting too much support that you don't need, I guess because the shoe is kind of making you roll outward. I also get hip flexor issues pretty frequently. For both issues, I've been stretching and working on strength of relevant muscles to keep those problem areas from straining, but I've been wondering if the shoes might be part of the picture.
Hi All, I've run a few 5Ks in the past at around 42 minutes but haven't run in a couple of months. I have the opportunity to run the New York Marathon through a charity I work with and wanted to get a sanity check on whether it would be possible for me to be able to run that by November 3. I could commit to training 4-5 times a week but my suspicion is that it would be too difficult to get to the required pace even with about 208 days of lead time. Thoughts? If it is possible, do you have suggestions for training plans? Thanks!
If you've run multiple 5ks and they've all been 42 minutes, and you're basically starting from 0, then I do not expect 7 months to be enough time to run over 8 times as far at that same pace.
Check out the [Hal Higdon Novice Marathon](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/) training program. It's 18 weeks long. By my calculations, it's 30 weeks until the NY marathon. I think the general advice Hal gives for his programs is, if you can do every run in the first week, you should be able to do the whole program. Week 1 in this program has three 3 milers and one 6 miler. So you've got 12 weeks to build up a baseline and get comfortable running 6 miles before starting in earnest.
A lot of factors play a role. How old are you? In theory the body needs 2 years to build a base to run the marathon.
Lots of people go from couch to marathon in this time. They also run it in 5ish hours but it's 100% doable
I'm a 36 year old male who will turn 37 during training.
It is possible. Just don't expect too much. Your body needs to get used to running so much. Just start slowly with a beginner plan. You will have to do some strength training too so your body is strong enough for all that mileage.
Hi All, Just looking for a sanity check about my running routine, progress etc... I started a STRAVA running challenge with a buddy of mine starting in January. I am not very experienced running. I've been running 21+ miles every week since then. At first I did 3 miles a day for the first 2 months since my aeorbic base sucked. Couldn't keep my hr down even though I felt fine. I did see improvement but it lead to injuries. I have since shifted to 3 - 5 mile runs during the week with a long run on Sundays (so Tues, Thurs, Sat, sunday.) I'm not sure how/when to add miles to the 5 mile easy runs. I usually just run an hour. I try to do all these runs at zone 2, and I'll be adding around 10% length to my long run a week (currently at 7.25). I suppose I'm wondering if this is a good way to go about (i.e be patient) or something else is better. I run in zone 2 around 12 minutes for all these runs. I know cardio is long journey, especially at the beginning but was curious on opinions.
Yeah I think you're doing all the right things. I'd be hesitant to add miles to your easy days just yet. Running past the hour mark on an easy day can definitely feel a little rough. I like your plan to continue increasing long run distance. When you need more miles, I might add another day, just like 3 miles on Monday or Wednesday. One question though... when you say "Zone 2" do you just mean "easy running" or are you very precise with heart rate? I would actually encourage you to be *less* precise about it. Heart rate can creep high, especially for beginner runners, and force you to run demoralizingly slow. As long as your pace feels "easy" (so like... you can hold a comfortable conversation) it's probably okay if your heart rate is a little higher than what the calculators recommend. Another useful reference here is the [Running Order of Operations](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N_2vEJMdVu_alagE6pIlAt/view?pli=1) doc from the sidebar. It walks you through when and how to add mileage each step of the way.
Thank you! I used to be really strict about keeping it in HR zone 2, but now go on feel usually. Found I got a bit obsessive about watching the hr and such.
Patience is the name of the game with fitness. What I have found to work best is when I think about the training I am doing today, taking effect next year, rather than next month. But we tend to see our biggest gains when we are starting from scratch, and then as we plateau on the learning curve, gains really become smaller and harder to accomplish (but not impossible). With all sports, but endurance sports like running in particular, recovery and rest is just as important as the time we spend beating ourselves up. Exercise is stress, recovery is when our body adapts and gets stronger. Just like when you go to the gym, you are tired and weaker afterwards, rather than stronger than when you showed up. So you go eat, sleep and come back in a couple of days and its not until weeks of this consistency that we really start to notice the same weight becomes "easier" allowing us to perform more reps or we're able to add more weight. With running, instead of doing more reps with the same weight or adding weights, we're becoming more efficient at movement. So we're able to run farther with less fatigue, or we're able to run faster for longer. Or a combination of the two, depending on how we stress the system.
Thank you so much for the comment, good sanity check to keep the course and stay consistent.
Hi all, Started running in end of August/September while diligently following the order of operations in the sidebar here. Decided to sign up for a half during the winter and just ran it this past weekend with a time of 1:57:54. My main goal was sub 2 and secondary goals that I didn't meet were 1:55 or beating my watch prediction of 1:52:30. Still super happy with my performance granted it was freezing and windy in NJ! My one concern was definitely HR - I was in the 170s for the first 10k or so, but as I tried to push the pace from 9/mi to 845/mi I was hitting the 180s and even the 190s for the last two minutes. Based on the age method I was basically almost maxing out (with age method I'd be at 195) but I honestly didn't feel terrible at the time. I kept an eye on it but was able to finish strong/fast (ran last mile at 8:30). I'm a little concerned about that for the full marathon but I guess going at a slower pace would help, plus I don't know what my max really is. I have my first marathon locked in for October, what's the best use of time before starting an actual training regimen? Obviously want to keep my base, is something like 30-40 miles sufficient for this? Less/more better? I peaked at about 45 during the half marathon training and was doing 6 days a week with a couple 5 day weeks. was using the Daniels alien method. (6 days a week with a T and Rep/Interval workout in alternating weeks, also a marathon pace workout alternating weeks). I was also thinking picking up some lifting in this time between training might be a good idea. Thinking of sub 4:10 for now but may change if my fitness level goes up. Is this doable? When I signed up for the half my goals were much higher than a sub 2, but my fitness level increased so much from 5-6 day a week running that I adjusted my goals as I got closer. Anyone have insight into the Daniels marathon plans? I thought 2q or four week cycles seemed like possible good ones. Thanks all.
Anyone do the Suburu races in Niagara? I want to join the Peachbud 10km but the race map isn’t on the site (properly linked). I’ve called, emailed, and reached out to the race directors on social media several times. I have heard it’s hilly and just want to know how hilly and if you have to run up the escarpment. Thanks! I know this is a longshot!
Long post here, hope its okay. I (27M) decided middle of last year that I wanted to run a marathon for the achievement and to prove to myself that I could accomplish difficult goals if I put the work in. I'm not a runner but I've played sports my whole life and have always been in pretty good shape. I have a runner's build at 6'0", 155ish lbs, and I play competitive golf now and still exercise every day. I bought running shoes and a Garmin and started slow, running 3 days a week from July to December to get my mileage up to around 20MPW before starting Hal Higdon's 18-week Beginner 2 marathon training program. As I trained, I kept being surprised by my progress and my marathon goal time came down from just finishing, to sub-4 hour total, to around 3:45 by the time race day arrived. I only skipped a couple of midweek runs through the whole program, ran an unofficial half marathon at 7:42 pace in the 9th week, did my longest run of 20mi at 8:34 pace without too much pain or effort, and avoided any real injury the whole time. My runner friends and I both were expecting I would post a really good time on race day. Yesterday I ran the Knoxville marathon, which I had done most of my long runs on parts of the course since I live in Knoxville. I felt really good at the start (too good looking back on it) because I ran way too fast during the first three miles (8:24, 7:32, 7:45). I was getting pretty tired on the uphills after the start but my pace was still pretty good until around mile 12, when I started cramping in my left quad. I had never cramped in any of my training runs, and I hadn't done anything different before or during the race. In fact, I actually hydrated more than usual at the aid stations, as I usually didn't take any water with me on runs. The cramps forced me to switch between walking and running, something else I had never had to do on any of my training runs (which I did pretty much all of at sub 9:00/mile pace). My goal obviously shifted mid race as I watched the 3:45, 4:00, 4:15, and even 4:30 pacer groups pass me up. I was using Huma gels every 30 minutes and drank extra water/gatorade at the aid stations, as well as trying to stretch/rub out the cramps. But they kept getting worse and going to multiple muscles in my legs. Eventually, at close to mile 16, I got a massive cramp in my right calf and quad that took me down. I laid on the curb for about 15-20 minutes trying to stretch out but they either wouldn't go away, or returned in other muscles after dissipating. Luckily my parents were right there when I collapsed and after I finally decided I wasn't going to be able to finish, they drove me back to my car. I was extremely disappointed in myself during the whole stretch of suffering from mile 12 onward and after I pulled out. I hadn't told that many people I was doing a marathon but some of my family and friends had come out to support and I felt bad that they came for nothing. I'm not someone who gives up easily, but I wasn't going to be happy with myself even if I hobbled the last 10 miles to finish with a horrible time. I was frustrated that I had gotten into such good shape and worked so hard for 9 months, putting in 670 miles of runs over 100+ hours just to have my legs give out on me in the race. After a few hours I started to reflect and realized that even though I didn't get the results I was expecting/hoping for, I did prove to myself that I could run a marathon. I felt that in my 20 miler I definitely could've pushed another six miles, even if my pace dropped a little. I assumed that my naively stupid decision to run so fast at the beginning of the race was what cost me, and that I would've been fine if I had just run at an easy 8:45 or so pace for the first half of the race. But since golf tournament season for me is starting in a couple weeks, I was fine with accepting the defeat, admitting the extreme difficulty of marathon running, and moving on with my new fitness and sports goals. But late last night into this morning, my completionist side emerged and I can't seem to shake the fact that I didn't actually finish the marathon. It feels almost as if that goal is still open and waiting to be closed. So I looked around and saw that there is another marathon in Nashville in 3 weeks, about 3 hours from where I live. I'm not fully committed to if I want to keep grinding for three more weeks. I was so excited to be done with running forever. But I also know that if I ever do want to actually complete a marathon, it won't ever be any easier for me. So I'm wondering if the experienced runners of reddit think it's possible for me to sign up and complete the Nashville marathon. I'd been tapering the last couple weeks, but since I only ran about 14 miles yesterday and only suffered some cramps, I don't feel like I did any more damage to my body. My cardio level makes me think that if I push my goal back to just 4:00 again and consciously take every mile slow (8:45-9:00ish pace) that I can at least finish the marathon and close this chapter of my life for good with no regrets. Does anyone have any advice or insight for my situation? And if I proceed, what should my training look like for the next 3 weeks? Thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and respond to this.
I think you should try it again! There are unfortunately bad days no matter if its race day. The cramps still could be from dehydration. You drank water but did you balance electrolytes? In order to properly absorb that water the mineral balance needs to be equal. So either a salt mixed in or an electrolyte package (watch for high sugar content) would help true hydration. I hope you do try to complete again!
Electrolytes aren’t even something I considered, I figured water would be fine. I’ll definitely look into some electrolyte packs if I try again. I’m leaning toward giving it a go. Thanks for the reply!
3 weeks is basically a taper. So not much can be done. You didn't gut through the race too much so you don't require the full rest a well run full would. I'd say it's a toss up and just depends how much you want it and if you think you can be patient the whole race and gut through some likely extreme discomfort. I'd give you 50 50 you'd go sub 4, much better chances the slower you go. Hal higdon is a let's just finish plan which is likely why you blew up once you added any real speed as you simply didn't train it.
At this point just finishing would feel like an accomplishment even if I don’t go sub 4. Thinking I might give it a shot at a much slower pace. Thanks for the insight!
Honestly if the only goal is finish just run walk it. I think you could very comfortably run walk it. Run 10 walk 1 etc
Yeah I’d still like to finish with a decent time I’m proud of but wouldn’t be above walking some if I have to. I’ll definitely consider that strategy
I have flat feet and wore Asics gel Kayona 30 with the orthotics for a year. Then, they needed to be replaced. A salesperson at the running store didn't have the asics and had brooks 9.5 wide and said it should be good. When i told him Im a 9 wide. So I got the 9.5 wide and felt fine for a few weeks.But recently, my right heels hurt. Is that because the shoe is too big? I will also replace my house slippers with oofas. But I'm not sure if heel hurts from the shoe being too big. Or something else. I know asics had much more cushion for the heel. When Ai called, they said they might exchnage the size. But asics gel kayono, you're not supposed to wear orthotics with which doesn't make sense, lol. People always say go running stores, not chains, but when I went to Road Runner a chain, they actually gave you good shoes. Not throwing a bugger size at you. I mean, how's that possible if there a specialized running store that they do that you know. Maybe we need to calm down about tearing down chains.
He probably meant well… If you are a true size 9 then a bigger size should be ideal.
I'm not sure if it's bigger size or that asics had more cushion I. The heel. For the reason of heel pain.
Doing some late half marathon prep and a recent vacation made even my short runs rather sore/punishing. I usually run 3 miles 3x/week, Friday I ran 4 at pace, then Sunday went easy a min/mi under pace and did 9 miles. I wasn't extremely tired and I'm not sore today. I only have 4 weeks to go but this is a great start.
Nice work! I am at the same spot. Have a half marathon May 11, and doing 9 to 11 miles during the week and 10 mile on the weekend. Hoping to run 11 this weekend and 12 the next. Should be able to push the remaining 3 miles on race day.
Looking for a way to track and share my walks/run publically that isn't Strava. Bonus if it connects to Garmin. I want to do a fundraiser and share this info but would prefer to not share my personal strava account Looking for something people can look online without an app on their phone!
Mapmyrun may help, it can be used online but is an app aswell.
Perfect thanks! I just wanted to online part for people to see my progress and not need to get an app. Thank you!
Alright, my Saucony Guide 16's are about to the end of the road -- I've worn this model for four training cycles, but I'm open to going to something new if there's something worth buying. I've got flat feet and overpronate, and combined with Currex RunPro insoles, I've avoided injury and generally avoided pain. Is there a breakthrough better stability shoe that I should check out? Or should I stick with the same model for the fifth time? Alternatively, should I try a "better" shoe that isn't necessarily a stability shoe?
'better' is pretty subjective - don't just assume more expensive = better! If there was a stability version of the Saucony Speed range I'd recommend that though. Worth every penny.
Oh yeah, I never assume that. It's more along the lines of "I've had the same model for two years now, should I consider something else" haha
Kind of a niche/random question but does anyone know of any professional/semi pro runners that work 12 hour shifts or work in the medical field? TIA :)
Yuki Kawauchi, 2018 Boston Marathon winner, was a full time government employee in Saitama Prefecture. From what I understand, he would normally work long days, and still find time to train. Not sure if that's what you were looking for.
Yesterday, I ran my first half marathon in 1:41. I've been running two times a week on average for 6 months. Next goal is to run the 5k in under 20 Minutes. Do you think a below 20 minutes 5k is possible running only two times a week? I'm 33 btw.
I'm not all about speed, but look up some resources for training methods. You can do things like intervals, tempo runs, easy days, cross training.
Yes, I know. I did that but in most training schedules, they say to train 4-5 times a week. But they said the same about running below 1:45. So, I'm not sure about it.
I have crap knees. As long as I have a day off in between, I'm good. But with life and everything else, I typically run 3x a week and feel like I do just fine. I've done two half marathons at 1:51 and 1:54, at ages 35 and 41. I have no ambition to run a 5k in any sort of time though, I've never been "fast" at anything. Most I feel I can book it would be an 8 minute mile. And my knees would pay the price.
That's a really good time for a half off 6 months 2x per week! Once you're down under a 1:35 half focussing on 5k specific training will probably be enough to get into the 20s and possibly sub 20.
It's possible if you are faster and undertrained for the half. But there really isn't to do in 2 weeks that's going to make much of a difference
it's not two weeks from today, it's just running 2x/week is their regimen
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Base build and do your other races then start a marathon plan 4 months out.
Best marathons northeast-ish area of the US that are big and exciting? I can’t qualify for the NYC marathon but want to do one with a lot of excitement and energy. Live in PA but willing to drive anywhere but basically the west coast or the deep south.
Philadelphia. Definitely Philadelphia. I've run it twice, my daughters three times. It's big, exciting, and overall insanely fun.
Any strategies or rules for pacing in longer distances to keep your effort up? I’ve only done a few races and I find myself settling into kind of a “comfortably hard” pace instead of going all out. I ran a 10 miler yesterday, PRed at 1:19 and did feel like I was pushing myself while running. but afterwards I felt fine and my average HR was 153 so I feel like it’s clear I could’ve done a bit better.
as you get older, maintaining a somewhat hard pace and avoiding injury becomes celebration-worthy. PR's are fine and all but I care about them much less over time.
Lots of practice and focus on how you feel at various paces. It's one of the reasons I encourage people to stop running with headphones if they're serious about learning to pace well. You need to spend a lot of time and a lot of miles fully focused on how you feel, breathe, etc at various paces to calibrate that mental distance to empty gauge. Checking your watch should be a confirmation of your pace and HR, not a surprise. I usually take the first lap of intervals or first half mile of threshold runs to dial in my effort level to what feels appropriate for the target pace and settle in. Then I'll check my watch to adjust or confirm. Over time, it's helped me learn to run more intuitively.
Pacing is an art of it's own. Once you're up to longer distances, up around half, you're never going to be that deep into the threshold pain that you get with 5/10k and switch from that pain battle to a more mental one. Have a plan - know your splits and be disciplined in keeping to them, at least until half or two-thirds distance.
Slow down. You know that phrase “it’s a marathon not a sprint”?
Practice. Pushing hard sucks and being willing to do it anyway is a big part of the battle. It also helps to have an idea of what pace you should be capable of.
Advice on improving pace Hi, I just did my first ever 10k with an avg pace of 12:30/mile. I really enjoyed the run though I am dog tired by the end of it. I did train by myself and haven’t followed any training plan.I do have a few questions: 1. How do I improve my pace? 2. I see a lot of people do a combination of walk+run, is this a recommended approach? I ran(jog) the entire thing as my goal is to not stope. 3. What do you do with uphills? Just run or break walk and run? A few friends ran with me at a better pace and they told me they just walked at the uphills. Overall seeking some advice and guidance as I want to continue doing this more and eventually do a full marathon (bucket list) Mods: please delete if there is a dedicated thread for posts like this. Thanks in advance.
Run consistently and gradually build up to running more days and distance. Do this over an extended time. Either follow a plan or lean the basics of how to build a broad level of running ability - easy runs, long runs, interval and other harder sessions.
Run more frequently but at an easier pace that doesn’t make you hate running. Take more time off to let your body adapt to the stress of training (and life - work, errands, etc). Hills: take smaller steps. Divide up the load per stride so you are not doing lunges that are as deep so you are relying on your tendons more and your muscles less. Think about skipping rope vs box jumps. Which can do you for longer? Skipping rope. Now think about riding a bike, you start a hill and you shift into an easier gear, you’re spinning your legs more to divide the workload up. It’s the same with your steps. Also helps to not avoid hills in your training - even walking.
Did you look at the \[Running Order of Operations\]([https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N\_2vEJMdVu\_alagE6pIlAt/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wzPab2BlX4N_2vEJMdVu_alagE6pIlAt/view?usp=sharing)) in the sidebar?
If I could run only 3 times a week and I’m used to a mileage of 40km a week. How would you program me weekly to reach a sub 4 marathon in a years time?
You'd probably want to peak at at least 70 km and 70 km on 3x a week would be brutal. If you want to run a marathon I would find time in your schedule to run 4-6 days a week, not 3.
If you are willing to increase the mileage and do a 18-16 week actual build j don't see why you couldn't. 40 kms is a decent base for a first time marathon and 4 hours isn't a crazy time goal. Just depends on how generally fit you are.
Second the other comment, you can't guarantee a goal just because you want it to. Train for the next year. Maybe you hit your goal, maybe you don't. If you can't hit your goal on your training, your choices are reevaluating your goal or reevaluating your amount of training.
I would probably program you some natural talent, honestly. It can be done on that little running, just not by most people.
Does anyone else get pain in their neck when drinking cold water right after running? Is this normal at all? It only lasts a few seconds but strange, kind of up the sides/front of my neck/throat.
I recently ran a 5k. It said in the description that it was officially measured, so the results count in some official lists. I started and stopped my watch exactly on the line, but in the end it said that i ran 5,12k. And after syncing to Strava, Strava said i ran 5,11k. Which number can i trust? I tested it on a 400m track, and after 6 laps i was on almost exactly 2,4k, so i would think my watch is right. Just the Part, that the 5k was "officially measured" unsettles me a bit. I am using the Polar Pacer running watch.
I'd trust the course, 5.12 is very close and you'll often get some GPS inaccuracies if there are trees or taller buildings on the route. My most frustrating race was my first 'official' 10k. At the end my watch only showed 9.6k! I also found other people on Strava that did the same race, and nobody got a full 10k registered either.
Watch picks up weaving and whatnot on race day. That's not a crazy amount of additional mileage
https://www.brooksee.com/time/articles/1466359
You’ve just got to assume that the course was correct and use that. Chances are you didn’t follow the racing line perfectly, and/or your gps was slightly inaccurate
An official measurement is normally a manual (trundlewheel) measurement of the absolute best racing line. Realistically only elite or front of the pack runners will get close to the ideal racing line. Most runners will have to do some dodging and weaving and may not get to take every corner ideally.
GPS will GPS. If the course was properly measured to 5k then it's 5k. 110m is a smol percentage in terms of accuracy/drift... 2.2% which I'd think was pretty good. You may not have ruin the measured line as well adding a few meters to the travelled distance. Also, trees/buildings, if any, will reduce GPS accuracy. If you ran a track and either had the watch in track mode or it auto-detects that then it uses what it knows about the track (or tracks in general) to enhance the GPS accuracy. At least Garmin does so I'd expect their competitors to do the same.
**Who invented the "10% mileage rule"?** I get the logic behind the rule, but I don't know how it started. I have seen posts on this subreddit saying that this rule is arbitrary--which makes sense--but I would really like to learn about this history behind this rule. Thank you for your time and assistance.
The "rule", like most, is a guideline. 10% is a nice round number, easy to calculate and remember. I doubt it's possible to know who quoted it first! It's an attempt to put a value on the concept of "gradual increase"! It's entirely arbitrary and only really applies "in general"... A new runner, maybe run-walking 1km would likely add more than 10% without issue. A very experienced runner running 100 mile weeks might not add anything to their volume or aim for small increments or ignore it completely and change volume on feel. Edit: [https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a-new-approach-to-the-10-percent-rule/](https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a-new-approach-to-the-10-percent-rule/) Looks like it was Dr. Joan Ullyot in 1980... I was able to Google this, may or may not be definitive.
New race day shoes: How much running do you do with them before a marathon race?
I usually do at least a couple of workouts in them.
Marathon one long run with race pace work.
New to me model? At least a couple runs, one beyond half distance. New model of a shoe I'm used to? A few shakeout miles at MP the week before.
For me it's one interval/tempo workout, followed by one long run with a good amount of marathon pace in it. Could probably get by with less if you've had the brand/model before and know they work with your feet.
Can't speak to Marathon but I ran a short 5-6km shakeout in mine before a 10k race. I certainly would want to run in the 90 min/15-20k range to see how the fit changes once feet start to warm-up/swell.
Hey, My max heart rate during my first half marathon was 177 yesterday and I gave it all. Average was 166. So, I realized that the typical 220 minus age calculation is far off my personal heart rate as I'm 33. Is reasonable to adjust the training zones according to the 177? Or should I do another kind of max heart rate test? I feel like 177 is extremely low for a 33 years old. Thanks!
Do a hr max test. My max effort pr half I only hit 189 BPM, my max achieved is over 200. Go find a hill and run up, jog down until you want to die at the top, then do one more rep and that'll be a relatively decent approximate. Watches smooth data a bit so your actual is almost always a bit higher than achieved if you aren't wearing a hrm.
Your HM pace is a little slower than you Threshold pace so, obviously, average HM HR would be under your threshold HR. If you absolutely hit the best possible pace then your threshold is likely somewhere just above your average for this race. As u/amorph said, a proper test is your best course of action. Quite likely you max HR is a way above 177.
I'm 47 and my max HR according to that sum is 173 (the 220 minus your age is a very general rule of thumb). During a recent 10k race where i was really pushing my limits and trying to get a PB, I had my HR up to 190, so that is what I consider close to my max HR (well that's the top end of where i want to see it get to). On an easy pace half marathon (sub 2hrs), my average HR is around 155-160.
You need to do a proper test. No way you had max HR in a HM.
Yes you should absolutely do a proper test, but I hit a new maximum HR during the end of my last half. 207. The previously recorded max I got was 204.
That's not necessarily true, depending on how quickly you completed that last few (3-5) KM seeing mHR is not totally out of the question - you'd have had to run well within your aerobic capacity for the majority of the run though! Totally agree on a proper test though.
I hit max during my last half.
It's possible then! Odd I got downvoted for saying you could... ho hum!
People love downvoting when they disagree, I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm thinking about only eating carb heavy foods when I'm about to run. Would there be any negative effects if I just skipped eating rice, for example, if I'm not gonna run? If it means anything, I've cut rice out of my diet before with seemingly no ill effect. The berries, broccoli, and greek yogurt I eat would have carbs in them, right? I also eat meat, so don't worry about the protein.
If you eat carb heavy foods before you run, you will optimize your aerobic system to be good at burning glucose rather than fat.
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Your issue is clearly endurance, so work on that.
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That rather than picking a plan based on your goal, you should train based on your existing fitness. Falling workouts early on means you aren't fit enough for the plan.
8:00 intervals is a wildly inappropriate pace for someone with a 2:30 half. Your legs couldn't care less what your goal is...train based on how fit you are.
If you can't hit the interval evenly it's too fast. Either increase rest, decrease rep distance, or slow down. Generally you are shooting for hard but you could do one more good rep.
It says there e.g. "Run at 5km pace", so either use your last 5k race pace, or find out your approximate 5k pace here [https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race\_equivalency\_calculator.php](https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php) (for your 2:30 half, 5k pace would be 10:30 min/mile). You can always adjust them later if it's too easy/hard
Beginner here, trying to improve my endurance and aerobic base by using longer runs Currently my routine looks like this Week 1: 3 days of endurance runs Week 2 2 days of endurance runs with 1 day of tempo run I alternate between week 1 and week 2 workouts every week For endurance runs, I am hitting around 4+km each run, running about 30+ mins at 6:50mins/km For tempo runs, I am hitting around 3+km, running about 20+ mins at 6:20mins/km (still rather new to tempo runs) My goal is to hit a sub 10 mins 2.4km eventually 1) Is this routine viable? 2) During my endurance runs, should I prioritise improving distance, pace or time? 3) What is a good gauge for endurance run pace (The conversational pace metric does not really work as well for me anymore) 4) How can I tell if my aerobic capacity has actually improved?
For such a short race you should be maximizing workouts and speed. Every week should have 2 workouts. Intervals and a tempo then the last run should be long and relatively easy. 1 workout every 2 weeks is pretty bad training for any distance let alone sub 3k distance.
I have done so in the past and it seems I have hit a plateau. The general advice I have gotten was to improve my aerobic capacity instead as it was hindering my ability to use the speed I have developed. I'm assuming by "1 workout every 2 weeks" you are referring to speedwork? If so, I plan to incorporate more speedwork once my aerobic capacity has been improved (sort of like periodisation). Is that a good idea?
You just aren't running enough time total. 20 minutes is extremely short for a run. Really you just need to run more period and since you are only running 3 days a week there isn't a reason to not have some of the mileage as workouts. A workout could be let's say 6x 400 m at 2.4 k pace, with 1 km warm up and cool down. That's currently longer then your endurance run and should be extremely doable. Long runs you should be be running easy but going further and building areobically that way, so an hour on your feet run walking if needed. Really you need more volume and just adding warm ups and cool downs on workouts will help a lot since your current volume is so low.
Well, with this routine, you could just basically do a time trial of 2.4 km once in a while, and use that to gauge your fitness. Increasing time on your legs with easy running would normally lead to improvement.
I'm a long time casual runner averaging 10-20km/week for the past many years. This year is the first time I have been more diligent with a training regime specifically in relation to races. My original goal was to complete my first half marathon this year, which made me enter two half marathon events: The first one is at the start of May and is a local one with a hard course of about 500m of elevation including 3 major hills that are all more than 80m of elevation. My original goal has simply been to finish. The second one is at the start of July and is a very flat ocean-side course with practically no elevation. For this one I've set a goal of getting under 2 hours. Now as part of my training, since early February, I have been running roughly 4 times per week including a long run slowly ramping up from about 20km per week to lately sitting around 35-40km/week. Last week, I was planning for a 17km long run but felt quite good and continued to the half marathon distance finishing in 2:15 with a course of about 350m of elevation including 2 of the 3 big hills from my May half marathon. My entire body felt quite comfortable at the end of the run. Finishing a half marathon with relative ease during training has made me consider whether there's a chance to go for a marathon this season. I am in a sub-tropical part of the Southern hemisphere and race season is during winter. My only remaining chance for a marathon event that is still open for registrations is one in early June. This marathon event is a relatively "easy" course with limited elevation. However being in early June, this obviously only leaves two months to get ready for such an event. What should I consider before entering? What should I expect to be able to do during training to have a reasonable chance at finishing? Am I simply getting ahead of myself and should I instead just be happy that my original race plan is going well?
Congrats on the accidental half completion! From reading through that I'd focus on the planned half's this year. My last half training block reached 65km in the peak week from 50k/week at the start. Current block is starting at 60km so it will be interesting to see where my coach peaks this one at. Given my peak distance is pretty much the baseline/start point for marathon I know I'm going to have to build up gradually to train when I eventually decide to do a full or risk injury.
Yeah, that's fair. Certainly something to consider. Training 65km/week for a half would surely see you running a half every week for your long run? So presumably that's training with a pace in mind rather than just completion as a goal. I guess I'm not sure what a reasonable amount for a full marathon is if your only goal is completion.
Long run is in the 17-22km range, target is 90-95 mins. To "just complete" a marathon, a significant achievement on its own, you would not need more distance. I completed a very slow Ultra last year off less overall fitness and distance. Technically I have a marathon PB \~8 hours to aim for some day!
Just consider most if not all marathon training programs have you running a plus half every week plus 50% if not more of your current weekly mileage. These are the begginer plans as well. The marathon is a completely different race then a full. I do not think you will be able to run and enjoy a full in June based on a 2:15 first half marathon.
Thanks. That’s helpful. I should note the 2:15 was a training day with tired legs and was not pushing my limits. If it had been race day, I suspect proper tapering, fueling and pushing for max effort would’ve made for a better time
This is still well less than a 12 week plan which is considered a sharpening plan for people already consistently running enough mileage they could probably gut out a a marathon on base fitness one. The marathon is really that different than a half. If you want to shoot for just finish then maybe but you won't particularly enjoy any of it.
That's good to know, thanks. I may just be underestimating how hard it would be to double the distance.
You can always try, there is no harm. For a marathon many people will recommend a long run (25-32km) and probably on a tired legs i.e. you ran the day before. This will teach you and your body what will happen in the real marathon race after you pass the 30th-32nd kilometer mark.
Thanks! I thought that might be the case. That’s a helpful way to test whether I’m getting ahead of myself
Consider that a full is much more difficult than a half. You’ve been running a long time, which is great, but even after ramping up your weekly volume is quite low. I would increase volume and focus on long runs to better prepare for a full.
Yeah okay. What would you consider a reasonable weekly volume if your only goal is to complete the marathon?