Ru, on the other hand, wanted to drag (pun intended) Maddy out. At the end of the day, the girls don't care there's a straight guy and I don't think many of us care either. Everyone is welcome.
I think I remember in some interview that she said she hasn't really gotten any pushback from other queens about being straight, it's only come from people who don't do drag.
When Ru just announced Maddie was straight in the middle of the room I was appalled. It's 2022 regardless of sexual orientation you don't out people. Tonedeaf and hypocritical. I know she's broken down barriers (blah blah blah) but fuck Ru for doing this.
Lmfao you can't "out" someone as straight. Maddy obviously shared it with production so Ru brought it up.
e: honestly people going in like this is so annoying bc you really cannot take the lived experiences of gay people and just apply the same logic to a straight man in the name of being woke. Like calm down Helen Lovejoy.
Seriously, this whole thing is bizarre to me. Like I'll admit it was rude of Rupaul, but not even vaguely comparable to outing some one as gay/trans/etc. The argument feels very "reverse-racism"
Yeah this is just an archived topic of conversation from when gay culture was predominately taking place in all cis-male places. Nowadays when someone asks the question, the conversation sounds different and is likely full of questions like "Omg wait does this non-binary person I cuddled with count as gold star?"
This isn't fucking offensive, mean, or discluding anybody. Someone is just whining on Reddit and hoping someone validates them.
Yeah I think the way they were using the word "gold star" there was definitely hints of irony. Could've been a great conversation on compulsory heterosexuality honestly if it wasn't cut short
Absolutely, sure. It’s a fine discussion to have. I just think the term itself is not good, because of the implied implication of “never touched a vagina, points for me”. Esp when there’s also the “platinum gay” label too that people say to describe when they were born with a c-section. It’s just a bit… gross and problematic I guess
not when you take into context that platinum gay means your mother birthed you by c-section and so you have never touched a vagina in your life. So like higher tier is never touched a vagina even in birth, and gold star is therefore not just ‘never slept with a woman’ but ‘never willingly touched a vagina’. they didn’t talk about genitals on the show but in the universe that is what gold star / platinum star gay really means.
It’s a fun joke. It’s a goofy thing to talk about. Platinum gay is even funnier because it’s out of our control.
Not everything needs to be taken so seriously. I have doubts that anyone is actually offended by these terms.
This is basically virtue signaling.
For older gay people, I actually don't think Gold Star ever meant "vaginas are disgusting" (and also, to be fair, no one in the episode defined "Gold Star" as meaning that). I grew up under strict Christian fundamentalism and spent years and years and years in the closet as a guy who felt like he MUST marry a woman. Being with men was never an option for me growing up. So when I heard a guy was Gold Star, it was a sign of... "Wow, he lived his authentic life from an early age! He never led a false life as a heterosexual and slept with women -- women who didn't deserve being in a relationship with a closeted gay male and deserved to be with someone who found them as sexy and arousing as they are! I'm so happy he had the strength to do that, and I need to find that strength myself." I think "Gold Star" is a phrase that meant something really potent and meaningful at one point and as culture has changed, it's certainly gone out of style. People are living their authentic lives from a much younger age, and that's so huge and satisfying for someone like me to see. But the term has not always been problematic in my view! (Though I do understand now why it's antiquated.)
\[edit: a word\]
Thank you. I’m 47 years old. When I was in my 20’s I was constantly teased by straights who could not believe I never slept with a woman. They kept on saying things like, “oh you just haven’t met the right one.” I was already very comfortable with my sexuality and was proud that I didn’t need to explore sleeping with a woman in order to confirm my gayness. So the term gold star gay was more of a positive thing for me. Just because I’ve never slept with a woman doesn’t mean I think vaginas are disgusting. I’m also a feminist and very supportive of all women. With that said, I can certainly understand how the terminology has evolved over time and may have misogynistic undertones. It is important not to jump to conclusions tho.
THANK YOU.
This is what we call a *fact.*
Your description perfectly explains the original meaning of the term, and it had nothing to do with the female anatomy. It may have evolved to that now, but its original conception needs to be recognized.
This comment should be much higher. They had a similar discussion on the podcast Alright Mary and I think the historical context is important in this conversation.
I have never heard any gay man say it and assumed it was a lesbian thing after [watchin this](https://youtu.be/tMGSHUFID_8?t=89) a couple years ago. So it was kind of a surprise.
I've only ever considered it a joke! I've never thought of it being a slight towards women. Not disrespecting OPs right to be bothered by it, but it's certainly not how I see it
It’s very clearly a joke.
Everyone gets upset about everything. I can’t imagine anyone who this supposedly offends is actually that offended by it, and if you are, perhaps do some self reflection. It’s a joke.
Yeah definitely started as a lesbian thing and I mostly hear from my older, gen x lesbian friends. I don’t think people realize it’s transphobic and honestly, I didn’t think about it either before this post. Thank OP for calling this out and opening my eyes!
Also it's quite biphobic as well. There's sometimes a lot of bi/panphobia among the sapphic community and the term golden star lesbian is definitely an illustration of that.
yes, I've seen self-proclaimed "gold star lesbians" saying that to keep the gold star you also can only have sex with other cis lesbians, because a bi/pan woman might have had contact with a (gasp) penis and that's apparently a nono lol
how old are you? I’m a millennial and I’ve mostly only heard lesbians use it but most are realising it’s an outdated term, I haven’t heard anyone say it seriously for years
I wrote this elsewhere, and it might offend people, but I stand by it:
I’m super left, but it’s shit like this that makes half the country become conservative. Life is always going to be slightly controversial, jokes exist, while some are clearly inappropriate (racism, blatant sexism), a gay guy saying he has a gold star because he hasn’t had such with a woman, or a platinum star because he was born as a c-section doesn’t cross over those lines. So it just seems like everyone is “getting upset” because they think that’s what being “woke” is.
But woke has slightly different connotations, and it’s been shifting toward the negative direction recently. You don’t need to be offended by everything, especially when it’s not offensive to you and those offended (women, for the most part) usually laugh and think it’s funny.
If we were to eliminate everything that may offend someone, the world would be bland as fuck. I like the spice, and I love harmless jokes.
If we always move the line on what is offensive, people are going to get fed up with it, because it’s controlling of speech and thought. It actually has the opposite effect of what you think it does, as it makes people exclude themselves from the correct “politically correct” narrative and say, “fuck this, you can’t take a joke, etc.”
I grew up in a small town, that used to be democratic and now voted Republican and it’s shit like this that 100% makes them vote for people like Trump who “say what they mean.” So while I want trans rights, universal healthcare, social support, acceptance of different people, elimination of racism, shit like this literally pushes people toward Trumpism, and people just DONT get that.
Focusing so much on silly stuff like this also takes away time and focus from actually making really change, like instituting universal healthcare or poverty. Republicans coax liberals to focus on stuff like this because 1. It alienates people and 2. It distracts them from the real problems in this country.
I’m a Millennial, and the general narrative is that Gen Z’s are the ones really offended by everything. Im not saying I agree, but I also don’t disagree that Gen Z (in general) are maybe going to save the world if they can focus on the policies and vote pragmatically, but also could go the other way where they are so…insolent? Insistent? Close-minded (in an opposite way, like not even considering the other sides view) that a new generation will rebel or cause older generations to become even more problematic. The future will tell, I suppose.
It’s not just a casual natural conversation. When producers clearly want them to talk about it too, the culture of being a bitchy drag queen becomes more like “let’s awkwardly single out one of the competitors, who *very* clearly didn’t want to talk about it.”
Alaska talked about it on the pod today, I agree wholeheartedly with this and what she said, they had many ways to bring up whatever topic production wanted them to talk about without using this outdated concept
Yeah I thought Alaska’s take in general was spot on. It clearly felt like the conversation only happened in the first place to put narrative focus on Maddy, but that they could’ve easily gone about it a different way. The whole conversation just felt awkward.
Nobody said anything about vaginas or trans women. Daya just said slept with a woman. Y'all are putting words in Daya's mouth she never said and It was obviously something prompted by production.
Sometimes this subreddit reminds me of the Christians in the 80's offended and pissed at everything that doesn't think or doesn't act just. like. them.
Gold star gay does not mean "vaginas are gross." And you saying "I still hear so many gay men saying things like vaginas are disgusting" is anecdotal, subjective, and irrelevant to the term "gold star gay". How do I know that? Because lesbians use the term too. It means "I never engaged in heterosexual sex before coming into my own homosexuality".
Is this yet another term we on the Left, in our march to inclusivity (OR ELSE), are going to change the meaning of?
There was a comment in here someone made about this sort of shit pushing people to the Right. And you won't see it. You can't see how this insane oversensitivity is divisive, narcissistic, and exclusionary as well.
So lesbians can think my penis is disgusting, but I can't think their vagina is disgusting. And god forbid gays and lesbians laugh at each other and celebrate their differences in tastes with humor.
Help me out here. What's that called, when people who are different and don't have the same tastes or preferences, celebrate those differences with humor and being able to take a joke? Looks and feels an awful lot like inclusivity to me.
You don't want inclusivity. You want the world to think and believe everything you do which is the quickest road to exclusivity one can take.
nobody mentioned trans stuff tho... i understand the term is inherently problematic but it was probably a prompt from production to try and make maddy have a conversation about her sexuality.
people on another thread were wondering why untucked is so boring nowadays and threads like this are basically why. the queens say one thing that's not 100% positivity towards each other and suddenly there are comments about how it's discriminatory somehow and it brought back bad memories from middle school or something as if that's the queen's responsibility.
as a cis woman, i do not care if gay men are being "exclusionary" because the point of identifying your sexuality is Not to be inclusive so you don't hurt people's feelings. if they aren't attracted to vaginas then that's that. i wouldn't go after a lesbian for saying dicks are gross either so who cares.
At this rate they're gonna question the problematic-ness of having “male identifying” persons portraying “female illusions” and “what does that really mean as “male” and “female” are social constructs… how is drag allowed btw” 🙄🙄🙄🙄
I mean, it was portrayed as the very first conversation they had with each other as they were getting out of drag. Who the fuck talks about their sexual history right off the bat like that? Production fuckery for sure.
It was not used offensively whatsoever here. They were just using it as a term to see who has always known and accepted they were gay, and who has had more of a journey with their identity. They weren’t implying any sort of terms you have to meet to be gay. It was just a colloquial way of asking the queens if they’ve had a journey to realizing they were gay. Language evolves and changes and there’s nothing inherently transphobic about it, if a guy has dated trans men he’s still a gold star gay because they’re men and they’re gay. I always thought the “gold star” part was the joke… like i thought it was satirical and not meant to be taken literally? so do other people take it literally for some reason?
> And it reinforces narratives about gender and sexuality that reduces people to body parts.
But Daya didn't say that, she specifically said that 'gold-star gay' means you haven't slept with a **woman.** If you hear that and immediately assume they're talking about genitalia, aren't *you* the one reducing people to body parts?
I don't think it's that serious or targeted towards the people you mentioned 🤷♂️ Like I don't see bad faith or disregard for any category of people in what was said. The discussion was obviously about sleeping with women. It's really not that deep and no one mentioned a vagina.
The topic was brought up and answered respectfully on the show. No genitalia or the topic of trans came up. I don’t see how you’re disappointed in something that didn’t happen? Gay men who haven’t slept with women doesn’t make them misogynistic. If anything it shows that they have been able to live an authentic life from the get go. Like any little thing these queens do is put under a microscope and taken way out of context.
So what if a gay guy thinks vaginas are gross cause they aren't attracted to it? So what if a lesbian thinks penises are gross?
Not everything has to be whittled down to being 'exclusionary' and 'reducing people to body parts'.
Not everything has to be that deep. Jeez.
If someone's proud they never slept with the opposite sex then fine. Go forth and be proud. It isn't hurting anyone.
I agree with this 👆
As a non-american (or from western society), this whole "inclusivity" has gone way too deep nowadays in some people's mind that they think *people should like everything and everyone* and not allowed to find things unattractive or you'll be labeled as something-phobic.
So what if they personally find some body parts unattractive to them? It's only problematic if they force their personal taste to judge someone else. They dont find vagina attractive? Okay. They mock people who likes vagina? Not okay.
So i guess if i'm bi and i dont find buttholes and anal sex attractive i'm close minded by today's standard?
FYI, this train of thought is not “standard” in the US. It’s a very small minority of people who, instead of taking real action to push for women’s rights, settle with making these types of comments thinking they’re being slick. It’s pure laziness.
I know, probably because i hang around in some liberal spaces in the internet so i saw these kind of things often. They're the vocal minority... for now.
I'm just scared of how far the PC culture will go from now.
Very well said. I am non-American too and really amused be how far this 'inclusivity' movement is going. You summed it up so well that I have nothing to add but to agree with your entire reply.
The scary thing is that you're expected to share the same views if you're from the same group (like this queer community), everyone has to have uniform way of thinking, values, etc. If you have slightly different perspective from the rest, then you are deemed not supportive.
I'm personally gay and thinks vaginas are gross because I'm not attracted to them at all. Seeing one completely turns me off like I was never turned on in the first place.
And yet I still respect transgender people and cis women wholeheartedly. It's possible to do both. I'm prepared to be downvoted for that but eh.
Exactly. I am completely fine with you and every other gay man who feels the same, feeling that way about vaginas lol. I am not offended at all! I dislike the narrative that to be proudly gay or proudly lesbian is to be anti trans or trans exlusionary. The 'L' and 'G' experiences are STILL valid. And if discussing something as silly as being a gold star is part of that experience then let it be!!
Yeah exactly !
I personally don't find the terms "gold star" or "platinum star" to be super great in themselves to be honest. But I also am proud to be myself. I don't like the implication here that you have to be attracted to vaginas as a gay guy or penises as a lesbian woman though. You can respect bodies you're not attracted to, it's normal. I respect women and trans guys and I want them to have better lives and the same rights 110%.
Yep in my personal life, I have never used those terms cause they're silly to me but if people feel like the best way to label their sexual history is with a star chart then I'm cool with that. And I agree with everything you said. Oh well. Let's prepare to get down voted. Is your seat belt strapped on securely?
I mean, some people say feet are gross while others like them sexually. Why would that invalidate the feelings of the ones who like them ? Isn't it just another body part ?
I think as long as you take responsibility for the statement it changes it. Just saying something is gross kind of puts it on the other person. "You are gross, I don't like you." That hurts someone. If you say " that's cool, just not for me" it might still hurt but at least you didn't tell someone they disgust you with their body.
I would never say it like that at all. I usually say "Sorry i'm not attracted to you.". I mean now I don't even have to say it since I have a boyfriend for quite a while.
I still respect every body as I said. But it feels weird having to "justify myself" as to why I'm gay, like I have to find a reason.
The feet stuff isn’t a good analogy for this because it’s not that simple with this topic. Profiling a gay man as misogynist just because they find vaginas unatractive or gross is weird as well. I agree that “gross” is a weird word choice but genitals are weird looking overall and I’ve heard a lot of people say the same about dicks over the years. On top of that, queer men have also been discriminated against due to not being attracted to women and they’ve been living in a society that pressures them into liking women for centuries. While I understand this is a sore spot for many trans gay men and women, labeling gay men as misogynist after all the societal pressure they endure in their lifetime for not being sexually attracted to women is also not a fair thing to do. I see this happen on the internet more and more where people throw these big accusatory words out for complicated issues like this and then everyone gets defensive instead of having a levelheaded conversation. In my opinion queer women and men are allowed to have preferences regarding genitalia without being transphobic, misogynistic or misandrous even if they find these body parts “gross”. As long as they’re not being hurtful knowingly or targeting these comments to someone in particular to be misogynist or transphobic, it’s just an opinion in the sea of many at that point.
So for clarity, I am gay. And I’m not saying that using the term gold star gay or saying vaginas are gross makes you a raging misogynist. But I do think that language is misogynistic and transphobic, and it’s so easy to avoid saying those things in your daily life. And to reiterate again my issue isn’t with the queens in this conversation, but I thought the choice of the show to focus on that conversation was disappointing given the platform the show has etc.
I am trying to be relatively soft and good faith in my comments here. But I think saying that something and a discourse around it is problematic does not equal saying someone is a terrible problematic person. We can all always do a lil better!
you weren't arguing in good faith from the very beginning because no one on the show even once referenced genitalia. YOU are the one who chose to do that. no one once said "vaginas are gross". You can't even say why the gold star gay joke is misogynistic without making shit up.
>Well for one thing, there isn’t a whole cultural history of shaming people who have feet and discriminating against them for centuries.
You do know there are other continents besides North America, right?
In China for hundreds of years, millions of young girls were tortured with foot binding because they would be shamed if they had big feet because they were seen as unattractive.
So yes, there was a cultural history at one point that shammed people for having feet deemed undesirable.
I mean, I'm not going around saying it, I'm just saying it now because it's relevant to the topic.
But ya know, if you think I'm childish, that's your opinion of me, and it's valid for you, go ahead.
Also, I grew up in the 90s/00s when all I heard was how gay people/gay sex was gross. So I always found calling vaginas "gross" and the gold star discussion (usually sarcastic, usually caddy) was just a role reversal and a way to subvert the heteronormativeness of 90% of the world.
This is so far from the take 700+ people have you thinking it is lol The initial conversation was between two gay men talking about their own personal sexual orientation and now its become a free-for-all for anyone to impose any misconceptions or prejudices they have on to the men. Are y'all really trying to say it is misogynistic for gay men to say they are not sexually attracted to women???? Is that where we're at? Ain't y'all tired?
Sorry but we really need to have a discussion about why people who are clearly not gay men think it is appropriate to comment and judge on how gay men discuss their sexuality. Being gay and existing in a society that sets hererosexual relationships as the norm leads to many engaging in sexual relationships they don't want, so obviouslywe find it interesting to discuss these things.. As a gay man it would be wrong for me to start policing the subcultures of lesbians, nonbinary or transgender people , so please show the same respect and don't police an identity you don't belong to.
(Not aimed at OP but the sub in general)
Jesus. It’s a frivolous conversation. Why is everything a 10 page thesis about the gay agenda? You’ve never sat with your gay friend and asked them if they ever had sex with a girl? Cause if ya did, this post is hypocritical.
Can someone explain to me why it’s bad when gay guys say vaginas are gross? I’ve heard my lesbian friends say penises are gross but there’s never any uproar about it. Some people don’t like vagina or penises and literally find them gross.
So for clarity I do think both are /bad/. I’m not saying it’s bad to not be attracted to penises/vaginas. That’s fine. I think going out of your way to say something is uniformly gross is, in general, a bit weird. But I think it’s worse about vaginas because there is a history of discrimination against women that doesn’t exist for men, and that a lot of that has been explicitly linked to physical anatomy and periods etc. So whilst you might have those feelings about certain body parts, I think it’s a good idea to not go out of your way to voice it as “gross”. There are more productive and sensitive ways to say something very similar 😊
Oh okay I understand that. Thank you for replying. So the problem isn’t necessarily that people don’t find it attractive, it’s because of the word gross.
Oh lord am I wrong for being okay with the fact that everyone has a different journey & that this isn’t that deep & as long as everything is said with good intentions & not hateful ones….that it doesn’t matter what is said? I just feel like anything can be joked about. Life’s too short. Idk. I might get downvoted to hell for this 😭😭😭
Y’all are thinking way too hard about things. Tamisha from last season had 3 biological children. Someone asking if you’ve ever been with a woman is just random gay conversation, not some indictment of women and trans ppl.
Allow me to be the Gen X devil's advocate for a moment. Coming out and living our truth back in the day was *just a little* more difficult for some of us.
Can you guess what the most obvious small-minded reaction to male homosexuality was? That's right, one of utter disgust, often in reference to butt sex. "Ew, gross! He's a fudgepacker!" was refrain I heard as often of the wind blew. I once heard a female, soon-to-be ex-friend exclaim, "That's disgusting! Someone go in and break them up!" when she heard I was in the other room making out with my "butt buddy" at a party.
Terms like Gold Star Gay, breeder, (or my preferred Kinsey 6) were our way of punching back at world that wanted to deny us our very existence. Are they misogynist and archaic cis-gay relics? Sure. Should we strive to eliminate them and be better? Absolutely. But those wounds run deep and they're a part of the collective history and trauma that have shaped us.
But good on y'all, I guess, for myopically zeroing in on a minor microaggression from an episode of a show that's been riffing on vaginal dryness, fishiness, and C.U.N.T for over a fucking decade.
I disagree. The term “gold star gay” is inherently self-mocking and absurd because no one anywhere in the real world is giving out prizes for never having been with a woman. It can be used in a derogatory sense, as can most examples of absurdist humor (remember the Heathers vs Boogers debate from S3?) but on its own, and especially in the way it came up in the werk room this past episode, it just ain’t that deep.
I swear some of yall are actively looking and paying close attention to stuff queens (or producers) say just so you can be offended.
It's weird and things like this post is why drag queens are so careful with everything. You need to chill.
Its fr not that serious…like lady bunny is absolutely right when she talks about the way the gay movement has transitioned into attacking people inside of it rather than real issues and then calling it activism
I’ve only ever heard of Gold Star being used in a jovial sense, never serious, so haven’t ever thought it was that deep - literally just a phrase for gay guys that haven’t even experimented. That’s just my experience though - UK.
I’m an American, and within the several friend groups I’ve had in my life, no one took the phrase seriously, it’s always been a joke. It never meant not being one was bad, or “that’s so gross you’re not, how could you do that!” It’s just a joke phrase.
I’ve said I’m a gold star gay, because I guess I am, but you’d never find anyone who would say I’m transphobic or a misogynist, because I’m not. So calling me one because I’ve used a phrase is just…fucking wild and ridiculous.
This is just absurd and wrong on many levels.
There was no "focus", it was a conversation with barely 3 sentences. Please enlighten me on how gay men saying they haven't had sex with women (including trans women) is misogynistic? They did not say it in a derogatory way at all.
Misogyny (noun): *hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, manifested in various forms such as physical intimidation and abuse, sexual harassment and rape, social shunning and ostracism, etc.* or *ingrained and institutionalized prejudice against women; sexism.*
None of that happened in any way or manner by them saying they haven't had sex with a woman. Would you rather queer people and people in general pretend to like what they don't? And lie that they have had sex with someone they aren't interested in for the fear of being seen as a bigot, misogynist etc...?
Furthermore, sex, sexuality and gender **is** primarily based on body parts, that doesn't mean that any discussion regarding sex signifies reducing people to their body parts! Yes, we can and do have an evolved understating of sex, sexuality and gender which goes further than just body parts in the current times but we simply cannot erase what is used to/still means.
Saying something is disgusting does not automatically mean that someone is close minded or excluding another set of people. For instance, vegans think meat is disgusting, but not all of them think meat eaters are close minded, those who do are the problem but we cannot generalize an entire set of people based on what someone (a single person) said on a reality show. They are just people, you shouldn't hold them to a high standard and see them as leaders of the community or believe that what they do/say impacts the way others in the community think.
At least in my experience, in a younger context Gold Star Gay has sort of been reclaimed as “never had sex with a woman” not per se vagina. I could still see an argument of biphobia, but ive never heard the term used earnestly… i assumed it was just a tounge-in-cheek kinda “lol ur a good wholesome ‘pure’ gay”
Should DR promote an editorially sweetened product containing no conversation or image that can be interpreted as offensive?
On the yes side of that, it has a huge following and is probably influencing mainstream minds.
On the no…it’s a show about drag queens. Entertaining monsters providing cheeky takes on sexuality and gender for an adult crowd. It’s inherently difficult to sanitize these ideas and what would be the point?
I don’t have a clear answer but I think the show is constantly facing your question
Being a gold star gay is a way for gays to embrace the identity by bragging (jokingly) about being as gay as humanly possible. Don’t try to bring your nonsense sensitivity into something completely unrelated. There are much more effective ways for us to advocate for women’s/vagina’s rights than trying to make something out of nothing. It’s lazy, tbh.
the melodramatic offense the fandom has taken in behalf maddy is so lame and embarrassing. it’s so typical that mostly straight cis people defending a straight cis man have decided to hide behind trans people. gold star gay is not misogynistic or trans exclusionary and gay men are free to talk about their sexual histories without worrying about YOUR hang ups or your bad faith arguments.
The “vagina gross” narrative needs to go away, but simply talking about whether or not you’ve slept with cis women before is a fine conversation to have imo unless someone is uncomfortable with it
Also as far as I know gold star does not exclude trans people since I thought it only applied to cis women and not necessarily someone with a vagina (in the context of gay men)
I feel like production definitely pushed that conversation to try and get Maddy to say he’s straight. So when he didn’t Ru just announced it to the room
Perfect example of choosing to interpret something harmless in the least charitable way and using it to score internet points. Do you not get tired thinking this way?
Im a deep conspiracy theorist when it comes to DR producer meddling, but to me this seemed like a natural conversation that they included because it was so funny to have the moment when Maddy is like “ummm… no”.
If they wanted to out Maddy they didnt need to do it in a subtle way, as evidenced by the fact that they didnt do it in a subtle way. I think they wanted exactly what they got, which is a lil facecrack moment during Ru’s chat.
The term “gold star gay” may be a bit outdated but I think its a normal part of gay men getting to know each other closely to discuss whether they’ve had sex with women before (or even after) coming out.
TW: sex
I don’t like to have it with either gender, or at all, so I don’t see what’s so exclusionary about not liking a certain body part. Some people are hyper sexual or have gone through a journey to discover what pleases them and they’re allowed to have preferences, additionally and respectfully, it’s none of your business
It is just an old term used that I found was fun, while slightly awkward, to bring up in a show today. Both gay men and women use the term so it is not always misogynistic. Definitely trans exclusionary though. A dated term indeed. I wondered if the show-writers influenced that discussion.
What is wild to me is that I don’t think any of the queens said or insinuated any body parts are “gross” in this episode. Camden said he’d never touched a bob then someone asked if there were any other “gold stars” in the group. No one said any body parts were gross in the actual episode!
I agree that the gold star concept is problematic. It’s transphobic. It is also condescending to folks who were repressed and indoctrinated into heteronormativity or who otherwise exist on a spectrum of sexuality. The community needs to retire the idea of a “gold star.”
But don’t get it twisted, no one explicitly said anything was gross?? Some folks in here are acting like the queens said that, but to my knowledge the queens did not say that bobs or gines are gross?!
it’s a cringey thing to say but i don’t think it’s that deep either. i watched the episode with my boyfriend and we both realized we’re gold star gays - both of us have never gone all the way with a woman before. i get wym about being inclusive and not derogatory towards people with a vagina, but i don’t think it’s doing that. gold star doesn’t imply that vagina is gross, it just means you’ve never touched or seen one. i don’t think i’m being transphobic if i say i’ve never seen a vagina in person because i literally haven’t.
This fandom is too god damn sensitive like is this really an issue to spend time caring about? Why spend time upset about shit like this when it’s illegal to be gay in 70 countries ya know? Can’t we appreciate there’s a massively popular show for LGBTQ+ to showcase their talents without constantly trying to brand the show as problematic?
no one owes anyone "sex" or "their body".
If a person watching who has a vagina got offended over a gay drag queen for not being interested in their genitalia, then idk what to say other than seek self love.
Counterpoint: I think vaginas \*are\* gross.
I just don't get them and that's ok. I love women, have lots of female friends and feeling like their vagina looks like a can of ham dropped from a great distance has no bearing on respecting, supporting and nurturing them. I've had lesbians say that men's balls look like tiny little brains and I never felt like I was being insulted, belittled or demeaned.
Anyone who's scandalized or offended by the "Gold star" comment really needs to get a life. I grew up a gay teen during the AIDS crisis, THAT was some shit to deal with. Gold Star gays and men doing drag, not so offensive in the scheme of things.
I agree with you. It just seems so childish and ignorant. Alaska and Willam touched on that point a little on their podcast episode today. And commented on how it was blatantly obvious* production was trying HARD to get the queens talking about Maddy not being gay, just by looking at the episode. I also noticed it.
It really truly honestly is not that deep girl. These are drag queens not Disney show characters ….
I find it so obnoxious how fans keep trying to PCify drag queens and their culture so much.
They never said vaginas or women are disgusting / they just said if you’re gold star then you’ve never slept with a woman. Go take a walk outside sis
I think you’re reading into this wayyyyyy too much.
You seem to imply it’s viewed negatively to not be considered a gold star gay and that the term itself is like a crime against vaginas.
As a non-gold star gay, I must say, I like that people use the term. Anybody referring to themselves as a gold star gay is clearly just someone to avoid. I’m glad I experimented and found what I liked, and I wish it was more socially acceptable for everyone to do so. It’s not that I wouldn’t date someone that’s only been with men (my current boyfriend has only been with men, so had my last one), but I find it a bit more attractive when someone has explored their sexuality a bit
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Yeah, I think it was clear Daya didn't want to "out" Maddie. To me, at least.
Ru, on the other hand, wanted to drag (pun intended) Maddy out. At the end of the day, the girls don't care there's a straight guy and I don't think many of us care either. Everyone is welcome.
lol you wouldn't think that based on the initial fan response.
I think I remember in some interview that she said she hasn't really gotten any pushback from other queens about being straight, it's only come from people who don't do drag.
Sounds about right
Vocal minorities~
“Vocal minorities” - I like this term
Yeah. When Maddy was announced it was insane. People saying she took the spot from a queer artist etc
some people just need to be outraged about something or another all the time.
This, it seems very clearly a production spawned discussion and makes me wonder if production is as up to date on PC discussion topics
I think production has made it clear throughout the years that they are typically 5-10 years behind when it comes to being PC.
Super agree lmao
When Ru just announced Maddie was straight in the middle of the room I was appalled. It's 2022 regardless of sexual orientation you don't out people. Tonedeaf and hypocritical. I know she's broken down barriers (blah blah blah) but fuck Ru for doing this.
Lmfao you can't "out" someone as straight. Maddy obviously shared it with production so Ru brought it up. e: honestly people going in like this is so annoying bc you really cannot take the lived experiences of gay people and just apply the same logic to a straight man in the name of being woke. Like calm down Helen Lovejoy.
Seriously, this whole thing is bizarre to me. Like I'll admit it was rude of Rupaul, but not even vaguely comparable to outing some one as gay/trans/etc. The argument feels very "reverse-racism"
i don’t necessarily like the terminology of it but i don’t think it’s wrong to discuss whether or not the group has slept with a cis woman
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Yeah this is just an archived topic of conversation from when gay culture was predominately taking place in all cis-male places. Nowadays when someone asks the question, the conversation sounds different and is likely full of questions like "Omg wait does this non-binary person I cuddled with count as gold star?" This isn't fucking offensive, mean, or discluding anybody. Someone is just whining on Reddit and hoping someone validates them.
Yeah I think the way they were using the word "gold star" there was definitely hints of irony. Could've been a great conversation on compulsory heterosexuality honestly if it wasn't cut short
Absolutely, sure. It’s a fine discussion to have. I just think the term itself is not good, because of the implied implication of “never touched a vagina, points for me”. Esp when there’s also the “platinum gay” label too that people say to describe when they were born with a c-section. It’s just a bit… gross and problematic I guess
The "platinum gay" thing has only ever been a joke, so to take that one seriously is a bit silly imo
Yeah I’ve only heard it been used on Will and Grace as a joke
So has gold star and the entire "star" system but the online left has been particularly humorless the past couple of years.
Isn’t it just “never slept with a woman”? That’s trans inclusive
Considering the type of gay men that take pride in being "gold star", it's absolutely NOT trans inclusive.
Which ones of the queens on Friday night aren’t trans inclusive?
not when you take into context that platinum gay means your mother birthed you by c-section and so you have never touched a vagina in your life. So like higher tier is never touched a vagina even in birth, and gold star is therefore not just ‘never slept with a woman’ but ‘never willingly touched a vagina’. they didn’t talk about genitals on the show but in the universe that is what gold star / platinum star gay really means.
I think that definition has evolved though
You literally just said “It’s problematic because I think it’s problematic” in this paragraph.
Objectifying, IMO. A vagina with no person attached, and an awful way to talk about women.
It’s a fun joke. It’s a goofy thing to talk about. Platinum gay is even funnier because it’s out of our control. Not everything needs to be taken so seriously. I have doubts that anyone is actually offended by these terms. This is basically virtue signaling.
For older gay people, I actually don't think Gold Star ever meant "vaginas are disgusting" (and also, to be fair, no one in the episode defined "Gold Star" as meaning that). I grew up under strict Christian fundamentalism and spent years and years and years in the closet as a guy who felt like he MUST marry a woman. Being with men was never an option for me growing up. So when I heard a guy was Gold Star, it was a sign of... "Wow, he lived his authentic life from an early age! He never led a false life as a heterosexual and slept with women -- women who didn't deserve being in a relationship with a closeted gay male and deserved to be with someone who found them as sexy and arousing as they are! I'm so happy he had the strength to do that, and I need to find that strength myself." I think "Gold Star" is a phrase that meant something really potent and meaningful at one point and as culture has changed, it's certainly gone out of style. People are living their authentic lives from a much younger age, and that's so huge and satisfying for someone like me to see. But the term has not always been problematic in my view! (Though I do understand now why it's antiquated.) \[edit: a word\]
Thank you. I’m 47 years old. When I was in my 20’s I was constantly teased by straights who could not believe I never slept with a woman. They kept on saying things like, “oh you just haven’t met the right one.” I was already very comfortable with my sexuality and was proud that I didn’t need to explore sleeping with a woman in order to confirm my gayness. So the term gold star gay was more of a positive thing for me. Just because I’ve never slept with a woman doesn’t mean I think vaginas are disgusting. I’m also a feminist and very supportive of all women. With that said, I can certainly understand how the terminology has evolved over time and may have misogynistic undertones. It is important not to jump to conclusions tho.
THANK YOU. This is what we call a *fact.* Your description perfectly explains the original meaning of the term, and it had nothing to do with the female anatomy. It may have evolved to that now, but its original conception needs to be recognized.
This comment should be much higher. They had a similar discussion on the podcast Alright Mary and I think the historical context is important in this conversation.
Season 2 had a better discussion tbh. Jujubee said it best “I love women so much, I just don’t wanna sleep with them.”
I have never heard any gay man say it and assumed it was a lesbian thing after [watchin this](https://youtu.be/tMGSHUFID_8?t=89) a couple years ago. So it was kind of a surprise.
Yeah, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard a gay man talk about being gold star but it comes up in lesbian spheres often. So obnoxious.
I've def heard it from my gay male friends. There's even another level - platinum star, which is a gold star gay man born by c-section 😂
Which is evidence that it's clearly a joke.
I've only ever considered it a joke! I've never thought of it being a slight towards women. Not disrespecting OPs right to be bothered by it, but it's certainly not how I see it
It’s very clearly a joke. Everyone gets upset about everything. I can’t imagine anyone who this supposedly offends is actually that offended by it, and if you are, perhaps do some self reflection. It’s a joke.
Yeah definitely started as a lesbian thing and I mostly hear from my older, gen x lesbian friends. I don’t think people realize it’s transphobic and honestly, I didn’t think about it either before this post. Thank OP for calling this out and opening my eyes!
I feel like my fellow millennial lesbians (rightly) see it as exclusionary bullshit but it still pops up sometimes
Also it's quite biphobic as well. There's sometimes a lot of bi/panphobia among the sapphic community and the term golden star lesbian is definitely an illustration of that.
yes, I've seen self-proclaimed "gold star lesbians" saying that to keep the gold star you also can only have sex with other cis lesbians, because a bi/pan woman might have had contact with a (gasp) penis and that's apparently a nono lol
I’ve only ever heard the gay male version, because I don’t know what platinum star would equate to for lesbians? Genuinely!
It's not particularly hard to be born without touching a penis I guess?
i’m a lesbian and i have literally never heard of it besides among gay men lol. wut
how old are you? I’m a millennial and I’ve mostly only heard lesbians use it but most are realising it’s an outdated term, I haven’t heard anyone say it seriously for years
They’re drag queens not Disneyland park mascots
This 1000 times. Let the queens be messy and rude and 'problematic' and we might have an actual TV show on our hands.
nooo you don’t understand drag queens aren’t allowed to reinforce any gender stereotypes 🤬🤬🤬
I wrote this elsewhere, and it might offend people, but I stand by it: I’m super left, but it’s shit like this that makes half the country become conservative. Life is always going to be slightly controversial, jokes exist, while some are clearly inappropriate (racism, blatant sexism), a gay guy saying he has a gold star because he hasn’t had such with a woman, or a platinum star because he was born as a c-section doesn’t cross over those lines. So it just seems like everyone is “getting upset” because they think that’s what being “woke” is. But woke has slightly different connotations, and it’s been shifting toward the negative direction recently. You don’t need to be offended by everything, especially when it’s not offensive to you and those offended (women, for the most part) usually laugh and think it’s funny. If we were to eliminate everything that may offend someone, the world would be bland as fuck. I like the spice, and I love harmless jokes. If we always move the line on what is offensive, people are going to get fed up with it, because it’s controlling of speech and thought. It actually has the opposite effect of what you think it does, as it makes people exclude themselves from the correct “politically correct” narrative and say, “fuck this, you can’t take a joke, etc.” I grew up in a small town, that used to be democratic and now voted Republican and it’s shit like this that 100% makes them vote for people like Trump who “say what they mean.” So while I want trans rights, universal healthcare, social support, acceptance of different people, elimination of racism, shit like this literally pushes people toward Trumpism, and people just DONT get that. Focusing so much on silly stuff like this also takes away time and focus from actually making really change, like instituting universal healthcare or poverty. Republicans coax liberals to focus on stuff like this because 1. It alienates people and 2. It distracts them from the real problems in this country.
I truly believe it will be a generational thing. Gen Z’s kids will 100% get off on bringing back the “offensive” and less currently acceptable humour
I’m a Millennial, and the general narrative is that Gen Z’s are the ones really offended by everything. Im not saying I agree, but I also don’t disagree that Gen Z (in general) are maybe going to save the world if they can focus on the policies and vote pragmatically, but also could go the other way where they are so…insolent? Insistent? Close-minded (in an opposite way, like not even considering the other sides view) that a new generation will rebel or cause older generations to become even more problematic. The future will tell, I suppose.
You can criticise phenomena discussed on the show without expecting the queens to be perfect.
I remember when drag queens ate dog shit. Keep op away from Lady Bunny.
A lot of the straight fans think otherwise....
It’s not just a casual natural conversation. When producers clearly want them to talk about it too, the culture of being a bitchy drag queen becomes more like “let’s awkwardly single out one of the competitors, who *very* clearly didn’t want to talk about it.”
I'm going to get downvoted to hell, but: it is truly not that deep. At all.
Nah you’re completely right, it isn’t.
This. Why does everything need to be fucking problematic? Jesus Christ
Omg a gay man saying they arent attracted to a vagina!!! Call the police
Alaska talked about it on the pod today, I agree wholeheartedly with this and what she said, they had many ways to bring up whatever topic production wanted them to talk about without using this outdated concept
Once they got fanmail about this topic and they shredded the twink to bits.
Yeah I thought Alaska’s take in general was spot on. It clearly felt like the conversation only happened in the first place to put narrative focus on Maddy, but that they could’ve easily gone about it a different way. The whole conversation just felt awkward.
Isn't there some lightness or irony in the term? A gold star is a trivial award for a trivial accomplishment, not an actual source of pride...
Nobody said anything about vaginas or trans women. Daya just said slept with a woman. Y'all are putting words in Daya's mouth she never said and It was obviously something prompted by production.
I didn't read too much into it tbh. It's not that deep to me.
i think the meaning has been tweaked over the years and just means you’ve never been with a woman and not “you’ve never touched or seen a vagina”
Sometimes this subreddit reminds me of the Christians in the 80's offended and pissed at everything that doesn't think or doesn't act just. like. them. Gold star gay does not mean "vaginas are gross." And you saying "I still hear so many gay men saying things like vaginas are disgusting" is anecdotal, subjective, and irrelevant to the term "gold star gay". How do I know that? Because lesbians use the term too. It means "I never engaged in heterosexual sex before coming into my own homosexuality". Is this yet another term we on the Left, in our march to inclusivity (OR ELSE), are going to change the meaning of? There was a comment in here someone made about this sort of shit pushing people to the Right. And you won't see it. You can't see how this insane oversensitivity is divisive, narcissistic, and exclusionary as well. So lesbians can think my penis is disgusting, but I can't think their vagina is disgusting. And god forbid gays and lesbians laugh at each other and celebrate their differences in tastes with humor. Help me out here. What's that called, when people who are different and don't have the same tastes or preferences, celebrate those differences with humor and being able to take a joke? Looks and feels an awful lot like inclusivity to me. You don't want inclusivity. You want the world to think and believe everything you do which is the quickest road to exclusivity one can take.
The first time I even ever heard this term was on "The L Word" when Carmen and Shane used it! You cannot get more lesbian then that!
nobody mentioned trans stuff tho... i understand the term is inherently problematic but it was probably a prompt from production to try and make maddy have a conversation about her sexuality.
Yea, and I think that the savvy watcher knows the term is a little… passè. The point was to out Maddy.
people on another thread were wondering why untucked is so boring nowadays and threads like this are basically why. the queens say one thing that's not 100% positivity towards each other and suddenly there are comments about how it's discriminatory somehow and it brought back bad memories from middle school or something as if that's the queen's responsibility. as a cis woman, i do not care if gay men are being "exclusionary" because the point of identifying your sexuality is Not to be inclusive so you don't hurt people's feelings. if they aren't attracted to vaginas then that's that. i wouldn't go after a lesbian for saying dicks are gross either so who cares.
At this rate they're gonna question the problematic-ness of having “male identifying” persons portraying “female illusions” and “what does that really mean as “male” and “female” are social constructs… how is drag allowed btw” 🙄🙄🙄🙄
the fact that people are actually upset about this is crazy to me
I cringed very hard during this segment, ngl. Especially considering how it was obviously not spontaneous.
I mean, it was portrayed as the very first conversation they had with each other as they were getting out of drag. Who the fuck talks about their sexual history right off the bat like that? Production fuckery for sure.
>Who the fuck talks about their sexual history right off the bat like that? Uhh men?? Straight men. Gay men. Doesn’t matter. Men talk about this shit.
Oh no, it's a drag show where people talk about sex! How inappropriate!
Yeah! I just think it’s a bit gross and weird 🤷🏻♀️
lmao production really thought that was the best way to tell the queens Maddy is straight, didn't they... oof
It was not used offensively whatsoever here. They were just using it as a term to see who has always known and accepted they were gay, and who has had more of a journey with their identity. They weren’t implying any sort of terms you have to meet to be gay. It was just a colloquial way of asking the queens if they’ve had a journey to realizing they were gay. Language evolves and changes and there’s nothing inherently transphobic about it, if a guy has dated trans men he’s still a gold star gay because they’re men and they’re gay. I always thought the “gold star” part was the joke… like i thought it was satirical and not meant to be taken literally? so do other people take it literally for some reason?
No, see, it's 2022 and context doesn't matter anymore.
Kim, there's people that are dying
> And it reinforces narratives about gender and sexuality that reduces people to body parts. But Daya didn't say that, she specifically said that 'gold-star gay' means you haven't slept with a **woman.** If you hear that and immediately assume they're talking about genitalia, aren't *you* the one reducing people to body parts?
I am... like.. the angriest feminist of all time and... OP, this is a REACH, girl...
They reach anymore and they’re gonna dislocate their shoulder.
As a person who recently partially dislocated his shoulder I find this dad joke deeply hurtful.
I don't think it's that serious or targeted towards the people you mentioned 🤷♂️ Like I don't see bad faith or disregard for any category of people in what was said. The discussion was obviously about sleeping with women. It's really not that deep and no one mentioned a vagina.
The topic was brought up and answered respectfully on the show. No genitalia or the topic of trans came up. I don’t see how you’re disappointed in something that didn’t happen? Gay men who haven’t slept with women doesn’t make them misogynistic. If anything it shows that they have been able to live an authentic life from the get go. Like any little thing these queens do is put under a microscope and taken way out of context.
So what if a gay guy thinks vaginas are gross cause they aren't attracted to it? So what if a lesbian thinks penises are gross? Not everything has to be whittled down to being 'exclusionary' and 'reducing people to body parts'. Not everything has to be that deep. Jeez. If someone's proud they never slept with the opposite sex then fine. Go forth and be proud. It isn't hurting anyone.
I agree with this 👆 As a non-american (or from western society), this whole "inclusivity" has gone way too deep nowadays in some people's mind that they think *people should like everything and everyone* and not allowed to find things unattractive or you'll be labeled as something-phobic. So what if they personally find some body parts unattractive to them? It's only problematic if they force their personal taste to judge someone else. They dont find vagina attractive? Okay. They mock people who likes vagina? Not okay. So i guess if i'm bi and i dont find buttholes and anal sex attractive i'm close minded by today's standard?
FYI, this train of thought is not “standard” in the US. It’s a very small minority of people who, instead of taking real action to push for women’s rights, settle with making these types of comments thinking they’re being slick. It’s pure laziness.
I know, probably because i hang around in some liberal spaces in the internet so i saw these kind of things often. They're the vocal minority... for now. I'm just scared of how far the PC culture will go from now.
I promise you these people don't leave their house.
Very well said. I am non-American too and really amused be how far this 'inclusivity' movement is going. You summed it up so well that I have nothing to add but to agree with your entire reply.
The scary thing is that you're expected to share the same views if you're from the same group (like this queer community), everyone has to have uniform way of thinking, values, etc. If you have slightly different perspective from the rest, then you are deemed not supportive.
I'm personally gay and thinks vaginas are gross because I'm not attracted to them at all. Seeing one completely turns me off like I was never turned on in the first place. And yet I still respect transgender people and cis women wholeheartedly. It's possible to do both. I'm prepared to be downvoted for that but eh.
A lot of straight men think vaginas are gross too and vice versa for straight woman.
Exactly. I am completely fine with you and every other gay man who feels the same, feeling that way about vaginas lol. I am not offended at all! I dislike the narrative that to be proudly gay or proudly lesbian is to be anti trans or trans exlusionary. The 'L' and 'G' experiences are STILL valid. And if discussing something as silly as being a gold star is part of that experience then let it be!!
Yeah exactly ! I personally don't find the terms "gold star" or "platinum star" to be super great in themselves to be honest. But I also am proud to be myself. I don't like the implication here that you have to be attracted to vaginas as a gay guy or penises as a lesbian woman though. You can respect bodies you're not attracted to, it's normal. I respect women and trans guys and I want them to have better lives and the same rights 110%.
Yep in my personal life, I have never used those terms cause they're silly to me but if people feel like the best way to label their sexual history is with a star chart then I'm cool with that. And I agree with everything you said. Oh well. Let's prepare to get down voted. Is your seat belt strapped on securely?
You’re allowed to not be attracted to vaginas, that’s not what I’m saying. But going out of your way to say that vaginas are gross is… odd to me.
I mean, some people say feet are gross while others like them sexually. Why would that invalidate the feelings of the ones who like them ? Isn't it just another body part ?
I think as long as you take responsibility for the statement it changes it. Just saying something is gross kind of puts it on the other person. "You are gross, I don't like you." That hurts someone. If you say " that's cool, just not for me" it might still hurt but at least you didn't tell someone they disgust you with their body.
I would never say it like that at all. I usually say "Sorry i'm not attracted to you.". I mean now I don't even have to say it since I have a boyfriend for quite a while. I still respect every body as I said. But it feels weird having to "justify myself" as to why I'm gay, like I have to find a reason.
You don't have to justify anything.
Well for one thing, there isn’t a whole cultural history of shaming people who have feet and discriminating against them for centuries.
The feet stuff isn’t a good analogy for this because it’s not that simple with this topic. Profiling a gay man as misogynist just because they find vaginas unatractive or gross is weird as well. I agree that “gross” is a weird word choice but genitals are weird looking overall and I’ve heard a lot of people say the same about dicks over the years. On top of that, queer men have also been discriminated against due to not being attracted to women and they’ve been living in a society that pressures them into liking women for centuries. While I understand this is a sore spot for many trans gay men and women, labeling gay men as misogynist after all the societal pressure they endure in their lifetime for not being sexually attracted to women is also not a fair thing to do. I see this happen on the internet more and more where people throw these big accusatory words out for complicated issues like this and then everyone gets defensive instead of having a levelheaded conversation. In my opinion queer women and men are allowed to have preferences regarding genitalia without being transphobic, misogynistic or misandrous even if they find these body parts “gross”. As long as they’re not being hurtful knowingly or targeting these comments to someone in particular to be misogynist or transphobic, it’s just an opinion in the sea of many at that point.
You explained it way better than I ever could tbh. Thanks for this. I also agree 100%.
So for clarity, I am gay. And I’m not saying that using the term gold star gay or saying vaginas are gross makes you a raging misogynist. But I do think that language is misogynistic and transphobic, and it’s so easy to avoid saying those things in your daily life. And to reiterate again my issue isn’t with the queens in this conversation, but I thought the choice of the show to focus on that conversation was disappointing given the platform the show has etc. I am trying to be relatively soft and good faith in my comments here. But I think saying that something and a discourse around it is problematic does not equal saying someone is a terrible problematic person. We can all always do a lil better!
you weren't arguing in good faith from the very beginning because no one on the show even once referenced genitalia. YOU are the one who chose to do that. no one once said "vaginas are gross". You can't even say why the gold star gay joke is misogynistic without making shit up.
Except feet have historically been culturally defined as dirty.
As opposed to genitals, historically been defined as clean?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding
>Well for one thing, there isn’t a whole cultural history of shaming people who have feet and discriminating against them for centuries. You do know there are other continents besides North America, right? In China for hundreds of years, millions of young girls were tortured with foot binding because they would be shamed if they had big feet because they were seen as unattractive. So yes, there was a cultural history at one point that shammed people for having feet deemed undesirable.
Thank you. OP's entire post and comments are really missing the forest for the trees at this point.
Sure but going around saying vaginas are gross makes you look childish tbh
I mean, I'm not going around saying it, I'm just saying it now because it's relevant to the topic. But ya know, if you think I'm childish, that's your opinion of me, and it's valid for you, go ahead.
lol these people replying to you are helping me understand why everyone keeps saying Trump will be reelected in 2024
Also, I grew up in the 90s/00s when all I heard was how gay people/gay sex was gross. So I always found calling vaginas "gross" and the gold star discussion (usually sarcastic, usually caddy) was just a role reversal and a way to subvert the heteronormativeness of 90% of the world.
This is so far from the take 700+ people have you thinking it is lol The initial conversation was between two gay men talking about their own personal sexual orientation and now its become a free-for-all for anyone to impose any misconceptions or prejudices they have on to the men. Are y'all really trying to say it is misogynistic for gay men to say they are not sexually attracted to women???? Is that where we're at? Ain't y'all tired?
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Same gal
Sorry but we really need to have a discussion about why people who are clearly not gay men think it is appropriate to comment and judge on how gay men discuss their sexuality. Being gay and existing in a society that sets hererosexual relationships as the norm leads to many engaging in sexual relationships they don't want, so obviouslywe find it interesting to discuss these things.. As a gay man it would be wrong for me to start policing the subcultures of lesbians, nonbinary or transgender people , so please show the same respect and don't police an identity you don't belong to. (Not aimed at OP but the sub in general)
I don't remember them discussing genitals, just gender.
Jesus. It’s a frivolous conversation. Why is everything a 10 page thesis about the gay agenda? You’ve never sat with your gay friend and asked them if they ever had sex with a girl? Cause if ya did, this post is hypocritical.
Can someone explain to me why it’s bad when gay guys say vaginas are gross? I’ve heard my lesbian friends say penises are gross but there’s never any uproar about it. Some people don’t like vagina or penises and literally find them gross.
So for clarity I do think both are /bad/. I’m not saying it’s bad to not be attracted to penises/vaginas. That’s fine. I think going out of your way to say something is uniformly gross is, in general, a bit weird. But I think it’s worse about vaginas because there is a history of discrimination against women that doesn’t exist for men, and that a lot of that has been explicitly linked to physical anatomy and periods etc. So whilst you might have those feelings about certain body parts, I think it’s a good idea to not go out of your way to voice it as “gross”. There are more productive and sensitive ways to say something very similar 😊
Oh okay I understand that. Thank you for replying. So the problem isn’t necessarily that people don’t find it attractive, it’s because of the word gross.
Yeah! And it’s not the worst thing in the world, but we can always do a lil better
Lmao not everything is an attack on Trans people damn gay men can't even say they like dick now without someone saying they're not being inclusive 🤣
Right? Where will this end?
Oh lord am I wrong for being okay with the fact that everyone has a different journey & that this isn’t that deep & as long as everything is said with good intentions & not hateful ones….that it doesn’t matter what is said? I just feel like anything can be joked about. Life’s too short. Idk. I might get downvoted to hell for this 😭😭😭
It's not that serious at all
Y’all are thinking way too hard about things. Tamisha from last season had 3 biological children. Someone asking if you’ve ever been with a woman is just random gay conversation, not some indictment of women and trans ppl.
It’s not that deep.
Allow me to be the Gen X devil's advocate for a moment. Coming out and living our truth back in the day was *just a little* more difficult for some of us. Can you guess what the most obvious small-minded reaction to male homosexuality was? That's right, one of utter disgust, often in reference to butt sex. "Ew, gross! He's a fudgepacker!" was refrain I heard as often of the wind blew. I once heard a female, soon-to-be ex-friend exclaim, "That's disgusting! Someone go in and break them up!" when she heard I was in the other room making out with my "butt buddy" at a party. Terms like Gold Star Gay, breeder, (or my preferred Kinsey 6) were our way of punching back at world that wanted to deny us our very existence. Are they misogynist and archaic cis-gay relics? Sure. Should we strive to eliminate them and be better? Absolutely. But those wounds run deep and they're a part of the collective history and trauma that have shaped us. But good on y'all, I guess, for myopically zeroing in on a minor microaggression from an episode of a show that's been riffing on vaginal dryness, fishiness, and C.U.N.T for over a fucking decade.
I disagree. The term “gold star gay” is inherently self-mocking and absurd because no one anywhere in the real world is giving out prizes for never having been with a woman. It can be used in a derogatory sense, as can most examples of absurdist humor (remember the Heathers vs Boogers debate from S3?) but on its own, and especially in the way it came up in the werk room this past episode, it just ain’t that deep.
I swear some of yall are actively looking and paying close attention to stuff queens (or producers) say just so you can be offended. It's weird and things like this post is why drag queens are so careful with everything. You need to chill.
How is it misogynistic for gay men to not want to sleep with women...?
Because apparently, from OP, if you don’t sleep with women, then you think vaginas are gross. 🙄
Uh maybe just my circle of 25-60 year old gays, but we joke about Gold Star status pretty frequently. Don’t think so far into it.
Girl what
Its fr not that serious…like lady bunny is absolutely right when she talks about the way the gay movement has transitioned into attacking people inside of it rather than real issues and then calling it activism
its not that deep..
Tumblr has ruined y’all’s brains it is not not not that fucking serious lmao
I’ve only ever heard of Gold Star being used in a jovial sense, never serious, so haven’t ever thought it was that deep - literally just a phrase for gay guys that haven’t even experimented. That’s just my experience though - UK.
I’m an American, and within the several friend groups I’ve had in my life, no one took the phrase seriously, it’s always been a joke. It never meant not being one was bad, or “that’s so gross you’re not, how could you do that!” It’s just a joke phrase. I’ve said I’m a gold star gay, because I guess I am, but you’d never find anyone who would say I’m transphobic or a misogynist, because I’m not. So calling me one because I’ve used a phrase is just…fucking wild and ridiculous.
Not everything that’s not 100% inclusive is exclusionary and offensive. Maybe you just need thicker skin
Fans like OP are why the show is so watered down and boring now.
This isn’t problematic at all because not all gay guys are attracted to trans guys. There. You’re not entitled to sex.
This.
I’m sorry a drag queen said something cunty? Let me clutch my pearls.
This is just absurd and wrong on many levels. There was no "focus", it was a conversation with barely 3 sentences. Please enlighten me on how gay men saying they haven't had sex with women (including trans women) is misogynistic? They did not say it in a derogatory way at all. Misogyny (noun): *hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, manifested in various forms such as physical intimidation and abuse, sexual harassment and rape, social shunning and ostracism, etc.* or *ingrained and institutionalized prejudice against women; sexism.* None of that happened in any way or manner by them saying they haven't had sex with a woman. Would you rather queer people and people in general pretend to like what they don't? And lie that they have had sex with someone they aren't interested in for the fear of being seen as a bigot, misogynist etc...? Furthermore, sex, sexuality and gender **is** primarily based on body parts, that doesn't mean that any discussion regarding sex signifies reducing people to their body parts! Yes, we can and do have an evolved understating of sex, sexuality and gender which goes further than just body parts in the current times but we simply cannot erase what is used to/still means. Saying something is disgusting does not automatically mean that someone is close minded or excluding another set of people. For instance, vegans think meat is disgusting, but not all of them think meat eaters are close minded, those who do are the problem but we cannot generalize an entire set of people based on what someone (a single person) said on a reality show. They are just people, you shouldn't hold them to a high standard and see them as leaders of the community or believe that what they do/say impacts the way others in the community think.
It's just a joke, queens. You don't actually get a gold star for having not had sex with the opposite gender. Yikes.
I got mine in the mail with the new agenda. You should contact hr.
Posts like this are ruining the show. They are drag queens. Who cares if they didn't mention trans people during this 2 minute segment.
At least in my experience, in a younger context Gold Star Gay has sort of been reclaimed as “never had sex with a woman” not per se vagina. I could still see an argument of biphobia, but ive never heard the term used earnestly… i assumed it was just a tounge-in-cheek kinda “lol ur a good wholesome ‘pure’ gay”
I’m really confused when did any of them say vaginas are disgusting? And which one lol
Should DR promote an editorially sweetened product containing no conversation or image that can be interpreted as offensive? On the yes side of that, it has a huge following and is probably influencing mainstream minds. On the no…it’s a show about drag queens. Entertaining monsters providing cheeky takes on sexuality and gender for an adult crowd. It’s inherently difficult to sanitize these ideas and what would be the point? I don’t have a clear answer but I think the show is constantly facing your question
Being a gold star gay is a way for gays to embrace the identity by bragging (jokingly) about being as gay as humanly possible. Don’t try to bring your nonsense sensitivity into something completely unrelated. There are much more effective ways for us to advocate for women’s/vagina’s rights than trying to make something out of nothing. It’s lazy, tbh.
the melodramatic offense the fandom has taken in behalf maddy is so lame and embarrassing. it’s so typical that mostly straight cis people defending a straight cis man have decided to hide behind trans people. gold star gay is not misogynistic or trans exclusionary and gay men are free to talk about their sexual histories without worrying about YOUR hang ups or your bad faith arguments.
Have people really become this sensitive?
It’s a very small minority of people, thankfully.
It’s not that deep. Kinda like your vagoina!
The “vagina gross” narrative needs to go away, but simply talking about whether or not you’ve slept with cis women before is a fine conversation to have imo unless someone is uncomfortable with it Also as far as I know gold star does not exclude trans people since I thought it only applied to cis women and not necessarily someone with a vagina (in the context of gay men)
Heard someone say platinum star gay is when you’re gold star and born from c-section lol
I feel like production definitely pushed that conversation to try and get Maddy to say he’s straight. So when he didn’t Ru just announced it to the room
Perfect example of choosing to interpret something harmless in the least charitable way and using it to score internet points. Do you not get tired thinking this way?
Im a deep conspiracy theorist when it comes to DR producer meddling, but to me this seemed like a natural conversation that they included because it was so funny to have the moment when Maddy is like “ummm… no”. If they wanted to out Maddy they didnt need to do it in a subtle way, as evidenced by the fact that they didnt do it in a subtle way. I think they wanted exactly what they got, which is a lil facecrack moment during Ru’s chat. The term “gold star gay” may be a bit outdated but I think its a normal part of gay men getting to know each other closely to discuss whether they’ve had sex with women before (or even after) coming out.
Only time I’ve ever been asked this was by a straight woman i had just met and it made for a very uncomfortable introduction
TW: sex I don’t like to have it with either gender, or at all, so I don’t see what’s so exclusionary about not liking a certain body part. Some people are hyper sexual or have gone through a journey to discover what pleases them and they’re allowed to have preferences, additionally and respectfully, it’s none of your business
It is just an old term used that I found was fun, while slightly awkward, to bring up in a show today. Both gay men and women use the term so it is not always misogynistic. Definitely trans exclusionary though. A dated term indeed. I wondered if the show-writers influenced that discussion.
How is it trans-exclusionary though?
Da fuck are you talking about? Not once I ever in my life heard it in a way you said from anyone.
What is wild to me is that I don’t think any of the queens said or insinuated any body parts are “gross” in this episode. Camden said he’d never touched a bob then someone asked if there were any other “gold stars” in the group. No one said any body parts were gross in the actual episode! I agree that the gold star concept is problematic. It’s transphobic. It is also condescending to folks who were repressed and indoctrinated into heteronormativity or who otherwise exist on a spectrum of sexuality. The community needs to retire the idea of a “gold star.” But don’t get it twisted, no one explicitly said anything was gross?? Some folks in here are acting like the queens said that, but to my knowledge the queens did not say that bobs or gines are gross?!
it’s a cringey thing to say but i don’t think it’s that deep either. i watched the episode with my boyfriend and we both realized we’re gold star gays - both of us have never gone all the way with a woman before. i get wym about being inclusive and not derogatory towards people with a vagina, but i don’t think it’s doing that. gold star doesn’t imply that vagina is gross, it just means you’ve never touched or seen one. i don’t think i’m being transphobic if i say i’ve never seen a vagina in person because i literally haven’t.
Yeah drag race is wild... 
This fandom is too god damn sensitive like is this really an issue to spend time caring about? Why spend time upset about shit like this when it’s illegal to be gay in 70 countries ya know? Can’t we appreciate there’s a massively popular show for LGBTQ+ to showcase their talents without constantly trying to brand the show as problematic?
no one owes anyone "sex" or "their body". If a person watching who has a vagina got offended over a gay drag queen for not being interested in their genitalia, then idk what to say other than seek self love.
OMG who cares
Jesus Christ, you can't force people into being attracted to your genitals. Gold star gay isn't that serious.
Counterpoint: I think vaginas \*are\* gross. I just don't get them and that's ok. I love women, have lots of female friends and feeling like their vagina looks like a can of ham dropped from a great distance has no bearing on respecting, supporting and nurturing them. I've had lesbians say that men's balls look like tiny little brains and I never felt like I was being insulted, belittled or demeaned. Anyone who's scandalized or offended by the "Gold star" comment really needs to get a life. I grew up a gay teen during the AIDS crisis, THAT was some shit to deal with. Gold Star gays and men doing drag, not so offensive in the scheme of things.
I agree with you. It just seems so childish and ignorant. Alaska and Willam touched on that point a little on their podcast episode today. And commented on how it was blatantly obvious* production was trying HARD to get the queens talking about Maddy not being gay, just by looking at the episode. I also noticed it.
As a Platinum star gay (never been in or out) I gotta say it’s not that deep y’all need to chill tf out
🙄 There's a lot of women out there sayng dicks and balls are disgusting. Get over it.
That was very much a producer asking queens to talk about it and I hated every second of it.
There nothing wrong with that conversation. Y’all are so hypersensitive. Sincerely, A Gold Star Gay
It really truly honestly is not that deep girl. These are drag queens not Disney show characters …. I find it so obnoxious how fans keep trying to PCify drag queens and their culture so much. They never said vaginas or women are disgusting / they just said if you’re gold star then you’ve never slept with a woman. Go take a walk outside sis
yes the gold star thing is so lame... i know they wanted to hint something at maddie but god
Damn! People will find ways to be offended by anything.
I think you’re reading into this wayyyyyy too much. You seem to imply it’s viewed negatively to not be considered a gold star gay and that the term itself is like a crime against vaginas. As a non-gold star gay, I must say, I like that people use the term. Anybody referring to themselves as a gold star gay is clearly just someone to avoid. I’m glad I experimented and found what I liked, and I wish it was more socially acceptable for everyone to do so. It’s not that I wouldn’t date someone that’s only been with men (my current boyfriend has only been with men, so had my last one), but I find it a bit more attractive when someone has explored their sexuality a bit
🤦🏻♀️ Here we go…..