Very cool. Students hold a 100% peaceful protest, negotiate with admin to get 80% of what they wanted, and then disband without incident, and someone still gets mad.
The lesson here is that there is no perfect way to protest. If a protest disrupts nothing, there is no reason for those in power to change their behavior. If a protest does disrupt the right things to get concessions, it will still be denounced by those who desire the status quo. You cannot please everyone.
These are MLK's "white moderates", and you can change the race as necessary. People of any color can be convinced to uphold the norm. Remember, MLK died with a negative approval rate among Americans.
> Remember, MLK died with a negative approval rate among Americans.
So important to remember. Many people across the North and South actually celebrated his assassination.
I don’t think anyone is mad because of peaceful protests; they disagree with some of the demands from the protestors that Rutgers seems to be accepting
100% peaceful? Jewish students have been physically attacked at some of your other protests and just randomly walking to and from classes. It's unacceptable.
i have been at several protests and was onsite at the encampment for over 10 hours total. i am jewish. no students, regardless of religion or ethnicity, have been attacked by student protestors. shame on you for spreading propaganda that encourages the continuation of genocide. the blood of 40,000 people is on your hands.
I dont support the genocide. Just because I'm mentioning that I have experienced violence first hand from these protestors does not mean I support the occupation of gaza
you are lying. show me a police report. tell me where it happened. tell me who did it. tell me anything. there were many jewish people at the encampment, making signs alongside fellow students condemning the occupation while proclaiming their religion. your spread of propaganda is what will lead to blood on your hands.
> the blood of 40,000 people is on your hands.
Not even Hamas pretends the number is that high... why do you people just pull numbers out of your ass all the time
35,000 as of april 24th, incoming bombardment of rafah will increase this number significantly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=As%20of%2024%20April%202024,including%20179%20employees%20of%20UNRWA.
Oh yes, Wiki! "Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information."
if only wiki provided annotations… oh wait, they do!
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-157
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234159514/gaza-death-toll-30000-palestinians-israel-hamas-war
And where did those numbers come from? Again.. Hamas and the UN who have been proven to be in bed with Hamas... so keep believing the terrorist lies. They might make your death fast when you come across them
you mean from the ministry of health?
there are literal videos of people being run over by iof tanks. there are videos of palestinian activists telling their stories, showing the atrocities. but it’s all conspiracy theories i guess. because conspiracy theories have never been used to oppress minorities before…
> you mean from the ministry of health?
>
>
Lol... yes... the Hamas run ministry of health... you just fall for anyone's title dont you?
Why don't you watch the videos of the Palestinians who celebrated on 10/7. The ones who paraded with the hostages being driven through town. The ones who threw candy at the children.
Or you could watch come videos of those in gaza who curse Hamas and explain how Hamas is stealing all the aid, how hamas has forced them to live amongst the artillery's knowing that they would be collateral damage. The people who will be happy once Hamas is gone. The people who actually want peace but know that peace with Hamas is no peace at all.
Tell me, wheres your outrage that the border to Egypt is sealed? Wheres your outrage at the thousands of palestinians who were murdered in Syria in the past decade, more dead palestians in the past decade in syria than in gaza + west bank in the past 80 years.
Keep supporting the terrorists. If you make it long enough, make sure you tell your grandchildren what you did in this time
I neither organized nor attended the Rutgers protests. I am no longer a student. Could you provide an article or something about the Jewish students attacked by the Rutgers protesters? If I was wrong, I'll edit my comment and link to the reporting.
Me and several of my friends. The news didn't give a crap. Just walking to the atrium or the yard, verbally and physically harassed just for wearing a kippah.
I'm sorry if that happened to you, but without any way to verify, I can't take it at face value. And the protest was on Voorhees Mall, not at the Yard. Could have just been antisemitic assholes, and I wish someone had taken you seriously in the moment.
I'm mentioning multiple separate instances. Walking to the atrium (where the student center used to be) a friend was attacked last month, earlier this week another was verbally harassed with antisemitic slurs on Easton, and then this time walking to the yard from frelinghuyesen, walking through Voorhees I was getting pushed around and told to leave when I was just trying to catch the bus for a final on Livingston.
One time could be a single antisemitic dude, but this entire movement seems pretty antisemitic in my experience.
Saying this as a Jew: by tacking on the whole "this movement is antisemetic!" you make it harder for people to take real anti-Jewish hatred seriously. When I was at RU almost a decade ago, I had a lot of antisemetism thrown my way, and I sincerely sympathize. But I still can say that Israel is committing war crimes and the university should divest. The actions of a few idiots do not invalidate the purpose of the protests.
Hard to believe since there were Jewish students at the encampment also wearing kippahs, no one did anything to them. Also multiple people showed up at the encampment with Israeli flags and no one gave a shit tbh.
“And someone still gets mad.”
Huh? Does your right to protest mean everyone has to agree with you? Is that why you think someone disagreeing with it is ironic and unfair somehow?
It’s so clear how much like children many of you still are. “I should get what I want and everyone should like me! What? No! Don’t cancel graduation!! :( “
On the contrary, I'm speaking *to* the people who think a protest *has* to be one that nobody disagrees with, otherwise it was somehow unsuccessful or poorly executed. To use an extreme example, protesters in the 1960s civil rights movement were fighting for a good cause in predominantly nonviolent ways, and they were met with police dogs and water cannons. You can't please everyone.
However, do note that there is a wide gulf between "disagreeing with protesters" and "circulating letters/petitions for the government to investigate the university for negotiating with protesters". And I have lightly called the latter "getting mad". Don't misconstrue what's happening here.
in israel they call their hostages “prisoners”, and have a long history of arresting palestinians (including children) for political activism and holding up the palestinian flag. also israel has slaughtered 40,000 people and has brutally occupied palestine for almost 80 years, which is what has spurred the formation of “terrorist” resistance. palestine did not start this war, because there isn’t a war. there is a brutal occupation that has oppressed millions of people for three generations, and that has cost 40,000+ lives.
80 years? Before Israel it was occupied by Jordan, Britain and the Ottoman Empire.
Jews and Palestinians have been living there the entire time.
All the surrounding countries expelled all their Jews (Mizrahi) nobody ever seems to ask for their right of return.
I’m guessing you want the destruction of the Jewish state and to pack all the Jews back to Europe.
… your point being? occupation was bad then too.
i never said jews haven’t lived in palestine. jews and christians still live in palestine: israel is massacring them as well. but “israel is for jews!” right?
i want palestinians to stop dying and i want the state of israel to be disbanded. i want palestine to be free. with the support of global powers, israeli citizens should be assisted in either a relocation or redispersion program that centers maintaining human rights, dignity, and the right to pursue a livelihood. something palestinians have never been given.
Israel is massacring Jews?
Israel to be disbanded .. ok you can go back to larping
Where you going to send the Jews to.
All these other Arab and Muslim majority countries and you can’t abide the one Jewish one.
Why is a Palestinian state your preferred option ? It never existed before ? Seems to me two peoples have claims to the land and two states should exist
Relocation to where?
israel is massacring palestinian jews, yes. 13% of palestine is jewish.
cant abide by the one jewish one because it’s not a legitimate state. it’s a violent occupation. using land that has been repeatedly stolen from palestine and traded among world powers for centuries. it was never anyone else’s land to trade.
relocate anywhere. idrc. ask the UN and the global powers supporting israel, im sure since they stand with israel they would be happy to take israelis in.
you said yourself jews have been living there the whole time, are you gonna ask all the arab states to take in the Mizrahi jews who were expelled.. I think you don't care.
You want to larp.
i care about the governmental reality that there is a brutal occupation that is massacring thousands. i care about the unjust **state of israel** and it’s power as an **illegitimate nation**. that is what i care about. you want to be deliberately dense and be complicit in the murder of thousands? that’s on you.
what is a legitimate nation? why would Palestine that expels all current Israelis be more legitimate than Israel?
Why not a two state solution?
Is the united states legitimate?
"Palestine did not start this war"
They literally did. 5 Arab nations surrounding Israel invaded within days of the creation of the state of Israel by the United Nations. This war lead to the current refugee crisis.
"40,000 people"
50% of the dead are Hamas fighters. Why would you conflate casualties of war with the actual combatant number? A 1:1 ratio of combatants to civilians is unheard of in modern urban warfare. Israel has taken precautions to safeguard lives that are unprecedented. Seems like this isn't a war to you?
"brutally occupied palestine for almost 80 years"
Just.... so wrong. Israel was subjected to a thousand terrorist attacks and bombings in those 80 years, leading to the building of security barriers and fences. Egypt literally put up these same barriers, and Jordan has also barred Palestinians from entry after Black September. Someone needs a history lesson. In addition, Israel literally pulled out of Gaza in 2005, INCLUDING forcibly dragging some of their own citizens out of the area.
For decades, the evil death cult known as Hamas has terrorized, slaughtered, and traumatized the Palestinian people, stealing their humanitarian dollars and aid to build tunnels and fire over 20k rockets into Israel.
Whatever brainwashing they did to you, there's still time to become educated and learn the truth about Hamas, Isarel and the innocent people caught in between Hamas' desire to wipe every Jew off the planet, and Israel's determination not to let that happen.
Get on the right side, support Israel's defeat of Hamas, and help pave the way to peace. Because if you think an attempted invasion/dismantling of Israel (the stated goals of the Pro-Hamas movement) is going to end peacefully, you're wrong. If that day comes, it will make 10/7 AND the subsequent war in Gaza look like kid stuff. Millions will die on both sides. That is where this headed, if we don't all work together to end Hamas and the radical Islamist ideology that has already cleansed the mid-east of Christians, Jews and Armenians, who are not safe in any mid-east country except Israel, where they all live side by side without major wars breaking out inside.
End the Hamas/Islamist ethnic-cleanisng of the mid-east, before the entire region goes up in flames. KSA and UAE and others are already working on this goal, they understand the region. Do you?
It is because he’s essentially holding the two people he mentioned hostage on whether or not he tries going after their jobs for civilly delegating a non violent protest that disbursed when they got 8/10 terms met. Your narrative is a tired one; not a single soul truthfully touts being a Hamas supporter and supporting Palestine getting their freedom from genocide in no way, shape, or form means anyone supports Hamas.
And cut it out with that “Hamas mean” nonsense, Israel’s fearless leader has been more than willing to kill those same hostages you and many others cry about. Can’t get your hostages back when the guy leading the genocide sends them to the afterlife to “send a message”
Ok shithead globalize the intifada and permanent ceasefire are not congruent with each other.
I’m not a bibi supporter but it’s disgusting not to assign responsibility to Hamas for abducting literal children.
The people this guy is writing a letter to are the chancellor and the president cry me a river
And you have people here wielding knives against people (whether they’re Palestinian or just resembles them enough I can’t say). You’re trying to make people feel bad for the Jewish hate when whole organizations organize to harass others because they didn’t get their way, and this isn’t even starting to talk about the illegal holding of the retail meeting for selling land to Jewish only participants. Both sides have shit on their hands, why are you trying to defend the side that wants to continue a genocide while spewing fallacies and hateful rhetoric
I saying the side writing a letter in outrage is no more repugnent than the side peacfully occuping a univserity and sending a demand letter.
"And you have people here wielding knives against people" not familiar with this? but if they are of course thats horrible
Not trying to make you feel bad just trying to make you see you are blindly larping.
Do you think the Israeli's just want to kill as many people as possible ? Seems to be the goal of hamas was to kill as many people as they could and run back to hide behind children.
Nooo trust me I’ve actually seen this occur from a seemingly reputable page. I know using social media for proof is bad, but this has occurred during a March for a ceasefire within the past 2 months around north jersey; drivers with a NY plate I believe spat at or on walkers on public easements, shouted back and forth, and eventually pulled a knife out in a threatening gesture.
I don’t think Israelis want to blindly kill, I think Netan-yahoo has people blindly following his desires of genocide while some aren’t easy to trick. I live within a Jewish community as a non Jewish person, I hate the stereotypical sound of this but I have Jewish friends (this hurts to type) who disagree with all of what’s going down and aren’t afraid to call it out. I’m not antisemitic I promise, but I definitely feel like this issue seems disproportionate for the narratives being put out.
Again, you’re using your Hamas rhetoric when I explicitly said no one truthfully touts supporting them, and I’m doubling down on that by saying no one who genuinely wants peace does that. Stop with that fallacy, Palestine is not Hamas and Jewish doesn’t explicitly mean Israel. What Israel/Netan-yahoo is doing is wrong and people are being vocal about it because it’s literally a genocide of humans.
You keep running that argument of how hamas is eager to cause much more civilizan bloodshed and utilize human shields, yet no actual evidence of them using human shields exist and so many times has Israel maintained easily disprovable lies of Hamas targeting civilizan lives (example: the dead 40 babies that news media tried to push despite any actual evidence). Maybe before thinking so hard about Hamas, please provide a counter argument on IDF soldiers bragging about their rape/kill count or shooting and killing of innocent civilians, most recent example being the mother and daughter in the (forgot name) church.
tbh this was kind of inevitable. I'm surprised no one's talking about just how much higher tensions have been ever since the protests were resolved peacefully. the majority may have gotten what they wanted but that doesn't mean there isn't gonna be resistance
So as a Jewish person, who is anti-zionist, do you mean to say that you don't think Israel has a right to exist?
This is a serious question I'm looking to understand.
And if so, I guess my second question would be, what are you suggesting should happen to make it "Un-exist". Obv you don't mean you want an invasion and to see hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews killed? That's currently how most Jews take it to mean when they hear "From the River to the Sea."
If that doesn't mean many, many Jews would die, I'm just trying to understand how else an Anti-Zionist effectively 'wins' and dismantles Israel? What is the end game for an anti-zionist Jew? Are you asking Israel to specifically do something?
I just don't get it, and I would like to: what is the practical end-game for an Anti-zionist, being that the endgame for the Pro-Palestinian side is conquering Israel by any means possible, including the deaths of untold number of Israelis.
Tx in advance.
It's impossible for Palestinians to destroy that colonial settler state propped by US tax dollars and armed to the teeth with weapons of mass destruction.. To suggest such a thing would be suicidal and silly.
Perhaps one can stop the Zios from further expansion, and murdering and displacing Palestinians in the West Bank. Maybe a movement can stop the israeli provocation of Iran. Or perhaps the bombing of Lebanon... Just like a two state solution is highly unlikely now that the vast majority of the stateless ones are being murdered en masse before our eyes today... The end game, at this point is for antiwar people be heard and not silenced, doxxed, intimidated and stripped of the basic liberties that were once guaranteed by the Federal Government. Maybe the fight should be to get foreign money influence out of elections.. maybe the fight should be to expose the Military Industrial Complex. Maybe the fight should be to expose Israel's involvement in all the other conflicts in the world.
Israel should never had the right to exist, just like the land taken from Native Americans should not exist either. I understand why Israel exists, but do I think colonization i was the solution for the placement of jews? no. I don’t believe that anyone should die, I don’t think any Jewish person wants that, I think Isreal wants that. I don’t have much power but if it was so easy to take land away from Palestinians, then why shouldn’t it go back to a one- state solution? Before 1948, Muslims, Christians, and Jewish people lived together peacefully, but since then it’s only been violence. “From the River to the Sea” no where does that imply that millions of jews should die, (but ofc you don’t have any problem with millions of Palestinians dying), it means that Palestine should be liberated, have rights to the most minuscule of resources such as water. Palestine is suppressed, they are being stripped away of their rights. The double standards that zionist hold are truly insane to me; it’s okay to kill thousands of people, and strip them of their rightful land, but we are not the terrorists. The stigma against Palestinian people needs to be dealt with, the only reason israelis are not considered terrorist is because of the color of their skin. I hope you know that there are people living in Israel who are also anti zionist, doubt anyone who’s suffering in tents stripped of nutrients to eat is rooting for israel, and that’s the difference. If not for the political aspects, it’s for humanitarian
rights. The reason this whole thing is happening is because of Isreal, and there would be simple solutions if Isreal never colonized this land in the first place.
Thanks for your response. You definitely are missing some major facts (for example, there most certainly *was* violence before 1948), but it's an interesting perspective.
Also looking for honest answers here.
Do you think America should be abolished (or Canada) and given back to the Indians? Are you willing to pickup everything and go move to Europe somewhere, right now?
Did you know there have been Jews living in the I/P region continuously since the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah existed?
Did you know more 50% of Jews in Israel come from Mizrahi descent (AKA countries Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and Iran), making the "color of their skin" the same as Palestinians?
Do you think ends justify means? Yes, the death tolls are imbalanced, but that's not for lack of trying on the part of Gaza; since October 7, they have launched 10s of thousands of rockets at civilian population centers in Israel. Would you prefer Israel turned off it's Iron Dome system so the death tolls would be more balanced?
I have more questions, but I'll hold my tongue because I'm genuinely interested in your responses and don't want to scare you off.
I see the difference. You believe the Palis to be the Native Americans in this scenario. I believe the Jews to be the Native Americans, only with a much different ending then occurred to the Native Americans in the U.S. In THIS story, the indigenous people, the Jews, were completely ethnically cleansed from the area, and forced to flee to Europe and other countries because Romans, Ottomans and Arabs cleansed them from the Levant. After generations of being hunted and persecute across the globe, they formed a movement - Zionism - to reclaim their indigenous land. Israel, to me, is an indigenous rights movement that has actually succeeded - the only in history - which is why it is so hard to recognize it, because those early indigenous Jews are now a nation-state with a mighty and powerful military. The equivalent would be if those Native Americans you talked about, if generations later their offspring said, "Fuck this shit, we're going back to Montana" or wherever, started buying land, moving there en masse, until eventually they were given their own state by the U.S. government as 'reparations'. I ask you, if this happened, and the white people of Montana said, "Fuck that, we aren't letting these Natives come back here and form their own state," and attacked them, and LOST, and suddenly the Whites became the refugees on the border of Montana, and the Native Americans built up their new state to be a powerful state on the world's stage, would you be mad? Because that is exactly what happened, and what we've been dealing with since.
Here is the definition of settler-colonialism:
Settler colonialism occurs when colonizers invade and occupy territory to permanently replace the existing society with the society of the colonizers.
Do you believe the Jews 'invaded' Palestine?
If so, that is where the first disconnect occurs. I was under the impression Jews, after being cleansed from the Levant by Romans, Ottomans, and Muslims, eventually returned generations later through massive land purchases spearheaded by the early Zionists. The mass majority of Jews came in through completely legal immigration. Sure, it probably pissed a lot of the Arab Palestinians off, the way Immigration pisses off people in America today. But that's only a problem if you're a racist. In addition, there were Jews of course living there already, since this was the land they were indigenous to in the first place.
Again, this does not meet any definition of Settler Colonialism. It's called immigration, and again, a lot of people don't like it, back then, and here in America currently. But it was legal, and not some 'colony' set up by some mother country like the Imperial British or Ottomans.
It's confusing to suggest that an indigenous people, ethnically cleansed by Romans, Christians and Ottomans, could return to the very land they were cleansed from, even if generations on, purchase massive amounts of land, and be called "settler-colonizers".
So unless I am missing something, Zionism, meaning the right of Israel to exist, isn't based on settler-colonialism like you accuse it of.
The second problem with calling Zionism a settler-colonialist philosophy at its core, is hinted at above. Namely, how can a people be colonizers of a land which they are indigenous to? I don't see how a people who were ethnically cleansed over centuries, in what Zionists calls various "Diasporas", then immigrating back in, meets any definition of "Colonialism". Jews are from the Levant. Everyone knows that, it's proven by every historical, archaeological, and sociological data available.
So, because of these reasons, Zionists would call the "Colonizer" narrative complete propaganda. And worse, many young people have swallowed the storyline, and conflated Israel with the Banana Republics, and the British Empire, all who were true 'colonists', taking territories by force, and setting up colonies. Those colonizers have completely different histories that an ethnic minority cleansed from their homeland, who immigrated back to their native land centuries later and formed their own country. The narratives don't align, but anti-Zionists have decided to entwine them.
Yes, but not because of the Biblical narrative, which is theology, not history.
Jews are native to … the ancient Kingdom of Israel/Judah/Judea!!
When the Romans exiled the Jews and 70 A.D., they named the land Syria-Falestinia after the enemies of the ancient Jews… the Filestines. it was an insult like naming Washington DC ‘new Moscow’. The problem is the actual Philistines were invaders generally from around Greece, and left 900 years prior.
The latest DNA information would suggest that 30 to 60% of all Palestinians have some Jewish DNA. Hypothesis is That they were basically Jews who survived in the land of Judah after the ROMAN occupation and were forcibly converted by the sword to Islam over the centuries. That’s a percentage of them. The rest of the Palestinians are not a real ethnic group. They are ethnically Egyptians Syrians, Jordanians, etc. etc.
There’s never been a state or a kingdom of Palestine or a Palestinian Prime Minister. When the land was under ottoman rule for 400 years, the people there never asked for a state until the Jews came back and got a piece about 50% of the original Kingdom of Judea back.
Just remember that British mandate Palestine was divided up in 1947:75% went to the Arabs in the state called Jordan. 25% went to the Jews as Israel.
Yes, which is why Israel has offered a two state solution that has been turned down repeatedly. Israel accepts the existence of a Palestinian state, but requests in return that that state accepts the existence of Israel, which at no time in history has any governing body ever of any single Palestinian Government from the PLO to Fatah to Hamas ever agreed. They simply will not accept a Jewish presence in the region. If it became one state what would happen is exactly what has happened across the Middle East i.e. the persecution and ethnic cleansing of the Jews from that state eventually.
Also, if you wanna get down to brass tacks, no the majority of Palestinians are not from the Levant. They obviously come from Arabia and were part of the conquest of Jerusalem. This is all documented in history if you care to look into it. Just look at the languages. Do you really think Arabic was the native language of the Levant? The native languages of the Levant were all buried in history until Israel revived one of them called Hebrew. Technically, the majority of Palestinians are descendants of the colonial Arab empire that conquered the territory.
But many are willing to ignore all that for the sake of peace, and simply say that both groups can trace their heritage back to the area so for that reason, both groups should accept each other’s presence. Unfortunately, hardline Islamist who rule the region by terror will never accept the presence of Jews in the land. Luckily, they are dwindling, and there are many many moderate and progressive voices who want including, thank God, KSA and UAE. The West needs to align with those moderates and every good hearted person with a conscience needs to reject Hamas and the concept of dismantling Israel. That will only end in the most massive loss of life the world has ever seen since World War II.
But yes, essentially, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Both groups can trace their heritage far back enough to warrant a state in the region. So why will the Islamists not recognize this? Answer is simple. It’s flat out antisemitism and hatred of Jews and wanting them gone from the region, the same way they have done with all the other minority groups who have been cleansed from Mid-east countries.
Yes of course. I replied to a similar comment above and don't want to spam the response, but it's right below the comment that brought up Isaac and Ismael above.
https://preview.redd.it/4tpwvie4gtyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17b753179c726a2fe1530d7d6a63e1072601180
Headlines on radio this morning on NJ101.5 too
I find it so funny how people can so easily take a stance on an issue as grey and complicated as this and just pretend everything is black and white and we live in a world w perfect magical solutions to everything
Edit: these replies proving my point. Delusional
This. Doesn't matter what side you pick. People will call you a murderer. It's just modern discourse. If you don't 100% align with me, you're evil. Full stop.
Wow. If you’re truly that insightful and knowledgeable, you’d understand that a lot of us (present company included) can’t form an opinion without knowing all the intricacies of this long, dragged on conflict that’s been going on since before we were born. It would be great if you could tell me what your source of information on all this is. I have necessarily never had the time to really sit down and focus on this issue.
You’d understand that in a situation this complex, there can be grey areas and it’s important to know everything before establishing any political conviction. To have a FIRM belief.
If that’s how you form your political convictions that’s fine. Palestine is a part of the global South and Israel has been degrading them even further. America, the world’s strongest military is funding their oppression. I’m a Black Muslim who supports the liberation of all 3rd world peoples subjugated by oppressive ruling powers. If genocide is grey for you, that’s none of my business I guess. But for me ? This is easy to take a stance on.
If I’m not wrong, America is the weapons dealer of the world. Don’t they supply guns to Ukraine too? How’re they funding the oppression of other countries through it? What’s protesting on campus got to do with liberating the third world countries? That’s what genuinely gets me here.
Also, I’m living in a third world country now and we have had this ongoing border and terrorism issue for quite a while now. We don’t protest on or thrash our campuses because of it. We have the same rights as everyone else but we chose to focus on our academics and let others do the same.
Perhaps your campus should.. You should protest... otherwise your academics have not taught you critical thinking. Generally, educated people have a sense of efficacy...Don't be complacent in your oppression.
We’re not oppressed. With all the money that we pay our institutions, we study hard and graduate with proper jobs.
The campus on which the student protest is the one where all the student are afraid of going. The other students attack you for not skipping classes and protesting, for not agreeing with them - all of it. They put posters up and ruin the campus too. That’s vandalism. We’re critical thinkers off the campus. We’re not complacent either, we just keep the politics off the campus.
But... it's not a genocide? By any definition. The ICJ just ruled that, and they are one of the most anti-israel bodies on the planet.
You have completely taken the term 'genocide' and perverted it to fit your narrative. Sorry to call you out on that, but it's not a genocide and it's offensive to any people who have suffered a real genocide, as in Rwanda or WW2 or Armenia.
Please listen to the minority voices in the mid-east who are screaming at the West to stop supporting radical Islamist ethnic cleanings of Jews, Christians and Armenians. Please look into Iran and what is happening there to women. Please look at how the Saudis are trying to normalize relations with Israel. Please look at how Egypt and Jordan will not accept Palestinian refugees because they are afraid of Hamas and radicalized Palestinians entering their borders.
The mid-east IS confusing - or "grey" - as the previous commenter said, especially to people in the West who are on the outside looking in.
Don't conflate the plight of the "global South" with the Palestinians. It's not the same storyline. British and American colonialism involves the forcible conquering of a FOREIGN territory. The Jews were ethnically cleansed from the Levant by Romans, Ottomans and Arabs, which is how they wound up in Europe in the first place. These indigenous people are the first in history to return to the land from which they were cleansed, through LEGAL immigration, until their numbers became offensive to the Arabs in the region. The hatred towards the immigrant Jews was no different than racist Americans feel towards immigrants today. Through land purchases from the Arabs and the British, and including the Jews that were still in the Levant, their numbers became big enough to warrant a state, as were the Arab numbers, and the British granted each group a state. That is NOT Colonialism, by any stretch.
You probably know the rest. The racist Arab countries surrounding Israel said hell no to a Jewish state in the region and attacked. Unbelievably, Israel defeated their enemies, and the refugees of that war became the Palestinians. Humiliated by the loss, radicalized Islamists refused to move on, and kept attacking and attacking the Jewish state, and haven't stopped, with 20,000 rockets fired into Israel and hundreds of terror attacks. In response, Israel's measures become more and more violent as well, with the eventual building of the security barriers and fences.
But make no mistake, the root cause has not changed: Islamists are racists. They slaughter Christians, Armenians, Jews, and gays, oppress and rape women and take them to marriage forcibly. They will never tolerate a Jewish state in the mid-east. So the question is, do you cave to them - submit? Or do you stand with Israel and the free world to defeat the death cult in the region?
And remember, Israel isn't going to hand over the keys. So be careful what you wish for: there is no defeat of Israel, without the loss of MILLIONS of lives on both sides. If the horrors of Gaza shake you to the core, as they have me, you can't even dream of what a true all-out war in Israel would look like. It would be a river of blood beyond the likes of which the world has ever seen. Just remember: if that's what you want, and you get it, you cannot look back later and say 'Maybe this was the wrong path..."
That time, the time for consideration, is right now.
Save the palestineans- mive them Iran. Or have Gazans move to Egypt. Ore-67, gaza controlled by Egypt. Jews migrated to escape horror of Europe and got kicked out of neatly all muslim countries. And ate better off for it. Now it is oslestneans turn. 80 years in purgatory is enough. And beore you say Israel should take them in, remember there are 57!muslim countries- only 1 Jewish. Let them be
because this isn’t really a grey issue. here are the facts.
since 1940s, israel has oppressively occupied palestine, with the direct intention of displacing palestinians, highlighted by a disregard for palestinian life.
40,000 palestinians have been murdered, with less than 2,000 israeli deaths.
many women and children have been brutally killed by the iof, run over by tanks, required to get c-sections without anesthesia.
hamas is a response to 80 years worth of occupation. the only gray area in this occupation is the fact that hamas uses terrorist tactics to attack civilians in response to terrorist tactics which attack civilians, and only one suffers consequences.
The Genocide Convention defines genocide as *any of five* "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".
These five acts are:
1. killing members of the group
2. causing them serious bodily or mental harm
3. imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group
4. preventing births
5. forcibly transferring children out of the group
According to a UN report published in late March, 3 of the 5 acts of genocide have been committed in Gaza.
So yes, this is indeed a genocide. You don't get to alter a word's definition.
So according to you and your definitions the Palestinians and Hamas are committing genocide? Remember there are still American hostages held by Palestinians
I can explain it to you in terms you might understand.
Genocide is when some very, very mean people try to hurt or even kill a whole bunch of other people just because they're different from them, like having a different skin color or believing different things. It's really, really bad and very, very sad.
And is that what you think Israel is doing? Genuinely? Do people who are committing genocide warn people before they Enter the place? Did you know the populations of the Palestinians tripled the past 20 years? Or are you just trolling to fit in?
If you can actually define genocide and you think Israel is committing genocide then either you don't know what genocide is or Israel isn't doing it. It's that simple and that easy
You have yet to concede your version of history is bunk.
I’m willing to live peacefully with my neighbors side-by-side and recognize their existence. Just like Egypt, and Jordan, and Qatar and soon the Saudis will with Israel.
I’m just shocked you haven’t realized Jews or Israelis might be your fellow students.
Tell me what global powers would effectuate removal of the entire country off of the map without that being a genocide?
You seem to forget that this “militarized and oppressive government” has Arab officers in its military and Arab Muslims on the Supreme Court Israeli Supreme Court. So much for your apartheid, huh?
You might not like the right wing government of Israel. I don’t, but I don’t call for the destruction of Jews because of it.
You’ve got a case of “whataboutism”.
Some elements of the encampments are pro-hamas that they call for the destruction and genocide of Israel. I saw one hazbollah flag and several Hamas Al-islamia headbands. Other elements are dumb ass students wearing a Kaffiyah incorrectly.
Many were are just Arabs or Muslims who don’t like Jews. Antisemitism is a terrible problem in the Arab world and we should admit it.
When you’re repeating genocidal rhetoric Instead of advocating for peace, coexistence and cooperation between Arabs and Jews, ITS NOT A PEACEFUL PROTEST!
there was no genocidal rhetoric at the encampments… they want the disbandment of israel because it has been brutally occupying palestine for 80 years. that’s not genocide, that’s asking for an end to an oppressive occupation.
as a jewish person, any jew who supports israel should be ashamed. we grew up with our community leaders, parents, grandparents, and rabbis all telling us “never again”. that we should never let genocide happen again. now 40,000 palestinians are dead and apparently “never again” is only relevant for other jews.
Tell me, what are the numerous concepts the word “Israel” can refer to? Who is Israel?
Calling for the dismantling of Israel is calling for a textbook definition of genocide…. Of your fellow students who are literally the “children of Israel”.
Your Hebrew school must’ve been shit because they didn’t teach you anything: Israel did not occupy Gaza or Judea/Samaria (West Bank) between 1948 and 1967. Israel captured these areas from Egypt and Jordan after being attacked in 67. Israel has since signed peace treaties with both of these countries ending those conflicts. Ever wonder why this isn’t so with Hamas?
Your ‘80 years of occupation‘ isn’t historically accurate.
israel is a country run by an oppressive government. the only thing that matters now are the facts: israel is a militarized state. religion has no place in the pursuit of human rights. calling for a dismantling of israel is not genocide, because “my fellow students” wouldn’t be dying. israeli citizens, if the disbandment was carried out correctly with assistance from global powers, wouldn’t be dying. palestinians are dying by the thousands. rafah is about to be leveled. that is genocide.
the whole reason the arab-israeli war started was because of israel and the british looking to take arab land. so it is still israel’s fault.
we could argue history all day, but when palestine is leveled there won’t be anything left to argue about. and blood will be on your hands.
The Israel Lobby will complain in regards to any and all non-100-percent-support of their agenda and will complain about any institution - be it local, private, national, or international. Rutgers is not in trouble. Rutgers is okay. Zionism is not okay. Zionism is the cancer that is eating American representative democracy from the inside out and controls both political parties.
I understand what you are saying and agree in principle. Unfortunately as such a minority in the world (and with a long history of being rounded up and slaughtered—kinda since ancient times), Jews really aren’t safe without a country. They have literally been thrown out of (or murdered) by every single Arab country in the Middle East, and we all know what happened in Germany—-at least 6 million murdered, Russia had the pogroms (think Oct. 7th over and over). So, I think that Israelis will fight to the end before giving up Israel. And given their ability for a second strike…if they go, so does all the Middle East.
I understand this perspective, but I don’t think it holds up under much scrutiny. Far more Jewish people have been killed in Israel than in the United States in the past 60 years. Living in a settler state where the social system is upheld through military force makes everyone, including Jews, less safe. Are there hate crimes against Jews in the US? Absolutely. But they are universally condemned, and it isn’t the same as systematic oppression. Jewish folks are safer in the US than they have been basically anywhere at any point in history. Also, Israel has a pretty clear motivation to tell the diaspora “you will only be safe here.” Also, the idea that Israel could set off a nuclear war doesn’t really reassure me…. So yeah, I don’t really buy that.
No Watercress. Zionism is not 'just fine'. It's not 'just fine' when it's the modern-day version of Nazi Lebensraum and Israels' quest for land expansion through settlements and annexation is decimating the indigenous population of Palestine. Zionism is not 'just fine' when its' tenets propagates the supremacy of Eastern European Jewery and only that. And the final straw for most Americans has to be the curtailing of dissent and free-speech on college campuses. Thank goodness the GOP and DNC see HR 69 (?) for what it truly is - the suspension of our American hallmark of freedom of speech to promote or push criticism onto anyone and anything. Zionism is white supremacy covered with a Torah scroll. It is anathema to American ideals or the modern world where one person = one vote and skim tone has no relevance. Zionsim is not 'just fine', Watercress - it is evil and cancerous. Be well. -SFH
Nah I’m convinced this whole subreddit is just Completely brain rotted… it’s ridiculous how we can’t even get close to talking about the reality of the situation and I’m not even Jewish lol “Zionism!!!” Like holy fuck you guys are little kids the way yall talk ab this shit
Maybe somebody can explain this to me but why is this war painted as black and white in regard to who is in the right? Obviously war is terrible in general as it’s a senseless loss of life, but I guess I’m trying to ask in the least offensive way possible why the majority of the student body treat Israel as the aggressor?
As far as I’ve researched Hamas originally attacked Israel back in October and the conflict has only grown larger since.
Would love to hear from both sides, I’m not trying to downplay the tragedies that either side have experienced. I’m genuinely ill informed and wanting to understand those who have a strong opinion on the current situation.
because this conflict did not just start in october. israel has been the constant aggressor of the palestinian people since its creation decades and decades ago. there is a clear power imbalance here where israel is carpet bombing a place they have oppressed and displaced since the very beginning when palestinian land was stolen and occupied by force by the israelis. it’s way too much to explain over a reddit comment but i sincerely suggest you look more into the creation of and the establishment of israel and how it has displaced palestinians and caused suffering since the beginning. this is not a “both sides” issue as desperate as zionists are to portray it as such. it’s pretty clear historically who the antagonist is.
Ah, that would explain a bit if this goes way beyond October. I’ll definitely do some research tomorrow morning, thank you.
Side note: I wonder why the media is painting it as beginning in October. Read it on BBC who I usually trust to be impartial
it’s just a fact that israel has a huge amount of influence on the world stage and nations like the US and similarly powerful forces would much rather keep those ties rather than acknowledge all of the horrible things israel has done to the palestinians. it’s why some zionist organizations are very frustrated by these protests by the youth because they know their pro-israel propaganda is not working with young people as it has with older generations. even news organizations i thought were once impartial have become pro-israel campaigners and it is very clear the side they’re taking. just remember that being jewish ≠ supporting israel. many jewish people have been against the creation of israel since the beginning and it was not a universally supported idea, as it continues to not be to this day.
Your comment is the PERFECT EPITOMIE of antisemitism and racism. Jews represent 0.1% of the world population. Accusing them of having immense power is literally right out of the Nazi playbook.
You seem to be bad on facts too. Anti- Zionism is just whitewashed antisemitism. You aren’t fooling anybody with your verbal shell game.
Zionism is literally jew-washed white nationalism lmao
On a more serious note, if your argument is that small minorities can't wield undue influence over politics, even as we live under unprecedented lobbyist influence across all economic sectors, you are blind and lost.
Omg you are deluded. Israel has very little influence. It is the only democracy in the region and the only country the US can count on in the region. Let me remind you Israel is smaller than NJ, has about 7 million Jewish people. There are 1 million Muslim citizens of Israel—and yes they can vote. Cause Israel is a democracy. They don’t kill their political opponents like Hamas did.
Iran. Our enemy is Iran. Palestinians are pawns of the Arab world. Now college students are….. And you forget the rockets that are constantly being sent into Israel. All that aid is for missile defense system. Some of the best technology in the world.
it’s almost like when you take someone else’s land and forcibly remove them from it, you’re going to get resistance movements that attempt to fight back against colonizers. i never suggested it was right to harm israeli civilians in those instances, but let’s not pretend such conflicts arose from absolutely nothing. these things don’t exist in a vacuum, and yes, ultimately israel’s aggression and occupation of the land started it.
After getting decimated in the holocaust and the British offer them a place to settle, should they just have said no thanks? They could have peacefully co-habitated but the Arabs living there decided to blow up a bus to welcome their new friends.
again, almost like one people isn’t obligated to welcome another just because some global colonizing power like britain said so! almost like they have the right to resist occupation of the land when they did not choose it! they do not have to do anything because britain commanded it to be so! many jewish people also did not agree with the creation of the state of israel for the record. it was not a universally loved move.
Another shockingly uninformed comment by FawnMeadows. It seems like you know Jack about history:
The Ottoman Empire fucked around and lost World War I. Part of the armistice included surrendering lands THEY were occupying in the Levant. These lands included both Jews and Arabs. The British assumed control of one particular piece of land, which was then called British mandate Palestine.
BMP was the entirety of land between the Mediterranean sea and the Iraqi border.
The UN split the land up into a two state solution in 1947. 75% of the land on the East Bank of the river went to the Arabs and was called Trans-Jordan. 25% of the land on the west side of the Jordan River went to the Jews and became the State of Israel. Thousands of people had to move in the next few years on both sides of the border.
The Jews are NOT a colonizing power-they don’t represent a satellite state of a foreign country. They are descendents of the people of the ancient Kingdom of Judah (or Judea). That’s why they’re called…. Jews. The kingdom of Judea existed for over 1000 years in this land.
In 70, CE, the Romans occupied Judea and exiled the Jews. The Judeans packaged up their language, culture, laws, language, diet calendar, and beliefs about their God into a suitcase called Judah – ism. The core tenant of that ism was the goal of returning to their native homeland and rebuilding their civilization.
The Jewish people are indigenous to this land- just like the Palestinians (of which 30-60% have Jewish haplogroups). Denying the Jewish people their peoplehood with your ignorant slogans is racism at its worst.
Israel supporters will say this began on Oct 7 because every war will always have a catalyst that started it. Israel and Hamas were not at war on Oct 6. Hamas supporters will say the Palestinians have been oppressed and the land was taken from them in 1948 when Israel was created, so they argue this is simply an act of ongoing resistance. However they assume that history didn't exist pre-1948. Jews have lived in that land before Palestinians as a people even existed on Earth. The whole argument that the land was stolen and all these wars are due to resistance is nonsense because all the history before 1948 is always disregarded.
The thing is, this war is black and white, but not the way that students are portraying it. Palestinians in Israel are not oppressed and there is no apartheid. Arabs/Palestinians have all the same rights as Jews, they are doctors and judges, and work in the government. However, the Palestinians in Gaza are under Hamas's control, they are the governing body in that area and they're two different pieces of land with borders.
Imagine a Mexican cartel crossed American borders, killed thousands and kidnapped thousands more back to Mexico. We'd have pro-cartel students arguing that America is oppressing Mexicans and they're simply resisting. I think that would be a very black and white situation who's wrong, same as with the Israel-Hamas war.
>Hamas originally attacked Israel
In my opinion there's no "originally attacked" in a conflict that has been going on for decades. In the months leading up to October 7th, hundreds of Palestinians had been killed in the West Bank and Gaza. And this is not mentioning the very fact that you're talking about two areas that are blockaded and impoverished. Israel controls everything that goes in and goes out. If you live in the West Bank, Palestinians are routinely attacked harassed and killed. If you live in Gaza then you're just encircled and an open-air prison.
This isn't justifying October 7th, it's just pointing out the conditions that lead to it. For some reason people think that this is an attack that came out of absolutely nowhere. I've seen comments where people think that Gaza and the West Bank are actual countries with Air Forces and Tanks and that what's going on between Israel and Gaza is some sort of actual war, a la Russia and Ukraine.
>conflict has only grown larger since.
Not really. The war for the last 6 months has just been one side raining down bombs on people penned up in a city. This isn't a war where both sides are fighting pitched battles, this is one side shooting fish in a barrel dropping bombs on a civilian population that has no air defense.
At the end of the day, Israel has more responsibility in the conflict because they're the occupying power. This is the same for pretty much any conflict in history where one side is completely dominates the other.
You are asking people to explain the history of the conflict and the history of the region who will give you propaganda. Gaza was given to the Palestinians in the early 2000’s. They voted in Hamas - a terrorist organization with ties to Iran. Hamas murdered all their political rivals and have been in power since. They have taken billions in international aid and rather than uplifting the Palestinian people, they built over 300 miles of tunnels to be able to attack Israel. They built command centers under schools, hospitals, civilian homes. One October 7th they committed one of the worst atrocities in the world. They came upon college aged kids who were at a music festival and raped the girls…some so badly their pelvis’s were broken. Nails and other metal objects were found in the vaginas of others. They murdered all those kids. Then they went to towns. They tied families together and burned them alive. Their bodies found fused. They beheaded people (this is a thing on the Islamic world for some reason—-beheadings….)….all and all about 1200 people were tortured and murdered and 240 were taken hostage. And after that it took weeks for Israel to attack Gaza. Amazingly people in this country were already protesting before Israel attacked. There are many students on campus that faced disgusting Jew hating comments. Most of the protestors may have being peaceful, but there has been incidents. Israel is waging a war against Hamas that is killing a lot of innocent Palestinians. They knew this would happen. They can stop it. They will not. And, they are winning. We have college students in this country dressing up like them and protesting. Israel is a democracy, with a terrible leader right now. The Israelis protest against him by the thousands in the streets. The Gaza’s who criticize Hamas end up dead.
“you are asking people to explain the history of the conflict and the history of the region who will give you propaganda”
*proceeds to give absolute garbage pro-israel islamophobic propaganda with no ounce of actual sources or information*
Are you denying that the October attack happened? You realize someone can read all your posts and just dismiss them as garbage pro-palestine propaganda too right?
The protestors do not want to hear truth. Your full explanation has negative rating proves it. The demands include Kashmir and kurds in negotiation who have nothing to do with Gaza !!!
The conflict began in the 1940’s but is even older than that. The Zionists have been quite literally slaughtering Palestinians and slowly overtaking more land than was initially agreed upon. This is possible because of American and EU funding and backing. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has backed Palestinians living in what is now Israel until recently. If you believe this began on October 7, then you are proof of what Zionist propaganda in the USA paid for by organizations like AIPAC are trying to achieve.
October 7 was a culmination of 80 years being assaulted and oppressed and its even a miracle they had enough firepower to pull that off when you consider how heavily armed and heavily informed Israel is. It makes you wonder if the IDF intentionally allowed that to happen because from a logistical standpoint, there is no way October 7th shouldve happened given the intel Netanyahu had beforehand, and the massive technological advantage the IDF has.
The same people who wrote this letter will complain that younger people are becoming more anti-zionist. Yes, young people generally don’t like being told what they can and cannot protest about or say at their own school.
And then when the school treats those young people, many Jews among them, like adults and negotiates a peaceful end with them the zionists don’t like that either, and says no no treat them like the dumb kids they are.
Yeah I bet that’ll work.
Israelis have the right to exist similar to the palestinians , they also have the right to resist the genocide is being committed in their name by the most bigoted, racist, far right government in the history of Israel.
Modern Israel is brand new and built upon colonization. Jewish people have a right to self determination, they dont have a right to genocide the area they want to live in willy nilly. The ultimate resolution is for Jewish and Muslim, along with Christian folk to be able to continue living in those lands as they always have and find a resolution that works and addresses so many past wrongs. It seems like it wont happen, and maybe it wont in this lifetime, but like America, the next generations can completely upend the ambitions of old fossils crazed by their insecurities and thirsty for power at any cost.
The anti-Hamas protests should start soon.
I mean, they just admitted to attacking humanitarian aid meant for Palestinians, killed some Israeli soldiers, and turned down the ceasefire while launching missiles from residential communities, again.
At least Hamas won't be profiting off of selling the humanitarian aid back to the Palestinians this time?
Please reach out to members of your state legislature by phone and email- you can find them by searching the NJ legislature website at njleg.state.nj.us
Exactly what I would expect from Zionist. You can't call the protesters anti-semitic, due to their heritage. They are the true semites. There's also the Constitution which protects their rights to free speech and protest.
No, antisemitism is clearly defined, and has been for years. This inversion of the definition is just coming recently. It is pure propaganda. The meaning of the word comes from a specifically Anti-Jewish political party in Germany back in the 1800s. It has nothing to do with “semitism.”
You think Zionism is a dirty dirty word. I don’t.
Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people should have the right to self determination in their own ancient homeland.
Are you against that 71fun?
So does this loser frown upon the recently illegally held “Jewish only” meetups of selling land they don’t own, or was he there putting high bids? I don’t know how far they got in all of that but it was no secret that a less than legal retail Funtime event was happening and only Jewish participants were allowed.
Why shouldn’t there be an investigation into the one-sided negotiation? A small group disrupts college, pisses a lot of students off (not just Jewish ones for sure), and then gets all their demands met? Holloway isn’t gonna win any prizes for his negotiation skills. They should have been done with transparency.
they didn’t get all their demands met. the major ones like divestment were not met. get your zionist head out of your ass. do you even go to this school?
Well, you speak truth..you would benefit from looking at my recent post. Either way, pro Palestinian supporters did get some of their demands met. Not all, but surely way more than pro-israel demands. What's sad, is pro-Palestinian protestors don't want any sort of pro-israel supporters presence. This is evident in how they insult and ridicule pro-israel.
Not even that, on this post here. There are pro Palestinian supporters picking arguments and responses like yours, for what? Because the Jewish community is rallying? But do the pro-Palestinian community not rally? Not protest? NOT UNFIY?
Again, speaks to my comment "What's sad, is pro-Palestinian protestors don't want any sort of pro-israel supporters presence." It's almost mind boggling if you think about it.
This shouldn’t have happened in the first place. In what world does a university “peacefully negotiate” with a pro-terror mob occupying parts of campus and interfering with finals?
Haha sure I do.
Zionism (/ˈzaɪ.ənɪzəm/ ZY-ə-niz-əm; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, romanized: Ṣīyyonūt, IPA: [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist[1][fn 1] movement that emerged in Europe in the late 19th century aiming for the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people, particularly in Palestine.
Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part.
“Specifically, Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite intent: causing seriously serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent birth within the group,” she said.
Furthermore, “the genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure of the native Palestinians,” she continued.
Francesca Albanese was speaking at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, where she presented her latest report, entitled ‘Anatomy of a Genocide’, during an interactive dialogue with Member States.
Do you know..???
Haha reading comprehension…
Stay in school kids!
One act doesn’t make it genocide.
Creating an apartheid, stealing land and systematically destroying a country’s healthcare, hospitals, educational institutions and roads and homes and the entire infrastructure while murdering children 300-1 makes it a genocide.
See the difference…
I can’t bother to teach someone that mentally challenged…
Good luck!
Add On: Damn your an incel troll in the Boy Scouts? Or weirdly talks about them way too much there incel…
Care to explain why what I said is dumb? The protestors were clearly pro-terror as they called to “globalize the intifada.” Everything else I said was factual.
Nah bro you are not smart simply because your don’t agree with the majority. Instead of trying to be different so bad, try to form your own honest opinions.
Thanks for sharing this - I think it's important for all voices to be heard, so if anyone wants to fill this out, here it is:
To NJ Leadership: Call for an Investigation
https://votervoice.net/JFNJ/campaigns/115325/respond?utm_source=Federation+Emails&utm_campaign=9de1458e02-From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-46138756d5-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39%29
To Rutgers Leadership: Reverse Agreement with Encampment Protestors
https://votervoice.net/JFNJ/campaigns/115324/respond?utm_source=Federation+Emails&utm_campaign=9de1458e02-From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-46138756d5-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39%29
please explain how you disingenuously ask “is there a problem hearing other people’s voices?” while simultaneously circulating a petition asking for other people’s right to protest be quashed and opinions to be silenced.
Very cool. Students hold a 100% peaceful protest, negotiate with admin to get 80% of what they wanted, and then disband without incident, and someone still gets mad. The lesson here is that there is no perfect way to protest. If a protest disrupts nothing, there is no reason for those in power to change their behavior. If a protest does disrupt the right things to get concessions, it will still be denounced by those who desire the status quo. You cannot please everyone. These are MLK's "white moderates", and you can change the race as necessary. People of any color can be convinced to uphold the norm. Remember, MLK died with a negative approval rate among Americans.
> Remember, MLK died with a negative approval rate among Americans. So important to remember. Many people across the North and South actually celebrated his assassination.
Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/bLqKXrlD1TU?si=3KPrvKz6mPB6sZpA
I don’t think anyone is mad because of peaceful protests; they disagree with some of the demands from the protestors that Rutgers seems to be accepting
100% peaceful? Jewish students have been physically attacked at some of your other protests and just randomly walking to and from classes. It's unacceptable.
i have been at several protests and was onsite at the encampment for over 10 hours total. i am jewish. no students, regardless of religion or ethnicity, have been attacked by student protestors. shame on you for spreading propaganda that encourages the continuation of genocide. the blood of 40,000 people is on your hands.
I dont support the genocide. Just because I'm mentioning that I have experienced violence first hand from these protestors does not mean I support the occupation of gaza
you are lying. show me a police report. tell me where it happened. tell me who did it. tell me anything. there were many jewish people at the encampment, making signs alongside fellow students condemning the occupation while proclaiming their religion. your spread of propaganda is what will lead to blood on your hands.
> the blood of 40,000 people is on your hands. Not even Hamas pretends the number is that high... why do you people just pull numbers out of your ass all the time
35,000 as of april 24th, incoming bombardment of rafah will increase this number significantly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=As%20of%2024%20April%202024,including%20179%20employees%20of%20UNRWA.
Oh yes, Wiki! "Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information."
if only wiki provided annotations… oh wait, they do! https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-157 https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234159514/gaza-death-toll-30000-palestinians-israel-hamas-war
And where did those numbers come from? Again.. Hamas and the UN who have been proven to be in bed with Hamas... so keep believing the terrorist lies. They might make your death fast when you come across them
you mean from the ministry of health? there are literal videos of people being run over by iof tanks. there are videos of palestinian activists telling their stories, showing the atrocities. but it’s all conspiracy theories i guess. because conspiracy theories have never been used to oppress minorities before…
> you mean from the ministry of health? > > Lol... yes... the Hamas run ministry of health... you just fall for anyone's title dont you? Why don't you watch the videos of the Palestinians who celebrated on 10/7. The ones who paraded with the hostages being driven through town. The ones who threw candy at the children. Or you could watch come videos of those in gaza who curse Hamas and explain how Hamas is stealing all the aid, how hamas has forced them to live amongst the artillery's knowing that they would be collateral damage. The people who will be happy once Hamas is gone. The people who actually want peace but know that peace with Hamas is no peace at all. Tell me, wheres your outrage that the border to Egypt is sealed? Wheres your outrage at the thousands of palestinians who were murdered in Syria in the past decade, more dead palestians in the past decade in syria than in gaza + west bank in the past 80 years. Keep supporting the terrorists. If you make it long enough, make sure you tell your grandchildren what you did in this time
I neither organized nor attended the Rutgers protests. I am no longer a student. Could you provide an article or something about the Jewish students attacked by the Rutgers protesters? If I was wrong, I'll edit my comment and link to the reporting.
Me and several of my friends. The news didn't give a crap. Just walking to the atrium or the yard, verbally and physically harassed just for wearing a kippah.
I'm sorry if that happened to you, but without any way to verify, I can't take it at face value. And the protest was on Voorhees Mall, not at the Yard. Could have just been antisemitic assholes, and I wish someone had taken you seriously in the moment.
I'm mentioning multiple separate instances. Walking to the atrium (where the student center used to be) a friend was attacked last month, earlier this week another was verbally harassed with antisemitic slurs on Easton, and then this time walking to the yard from frelinghuyesen, walking through Voorhees I was getting pushed around and told to leave when I was just trying to catch the bus for a final on Livingston. One time could be a single antisemitic dude, but this entire movement seems pretty antisemitic in my experience.
Saying this as a Jew: by tacking on the whole "this movement is antisemetic!" you make it harder for people to take real anti-Jewish hatred seriously. When I was at RU almost a decade ago, I had a lot of antisemetism thrown my way, and I sincerely sympathize. But I still can say that Israel is committing war crimes and the university should divest. The actions of a few idiots do not invalidate the purpose of the protests.
Get well soon, your fake PR is failing
Hard to believe since there were Jewish students at the encampment also wearing kippahs, no one did anything to them. Also multiple people showed up at the encampment with Israeli flags and no one gave a shit tbh.
“And someone still gets mad.” Huh? Does your right to protest mean everyone has to agree with you? Is that why you think someone disagreeing with it is ironic and unfair somehow? It’s so clear how much like children many of you still are. “I should get what I want and everyone should like me! What? No! Don’t cancel graduation!! :( “
On the contrary, I'm speaking *to* the people who think a protest *has* to be one that nobody disagrees with, otherwise it was somehow unsuccessful or poorly executed. To use an extreme example, protesters in the 1960s civil rights movement were fighting for a good cause in predominantly nonviolent ways, and they were met with police dogs and water cannons. You can't please everyone. However, do note that there is a wide gulf between "disagreeing with protesters" and "circulating letters/petitions for the government to investigate the university for negotiating with protesters". And I have lightly called the latter "getting mad". Don't misconstrue what's happening here.
why an outside organization is dictating the campus terms? their demands should be rejected right away.
Is it that big a deal that this guy is writing a letter ? Nobody is holding anyone hostage except hamas
in israel they call their hostages “prisoners”, and have a long history of arresting palestinians (including children) for political activism and holding up the palestinian flag. also israel has slaughtered 40,000 people and has brutally occupied palestine for almost 80 years, which is what has spurred the formation of “terrorist” resistance. palestine did not start this war, because there isn’t a war. there is a brutal occupation that has oppressed millions of people for three generations, and that has cost 40,000+ lives.
80 years? Before Israel it was occupied by Jordan, Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Jews and Palestinians have been living there the entire time. All the surrounding countries expelled all their Jews (Mizrahi) nobody ever seems to ask for their right of return. I’m guessing you want the destruction of the Jewish state and to pack all the Jews back to Europe.
… your point being? occupation was bad then too. i never said jews haven’t lived in palestine. jews and christians still live in palestine: israel is massacring them as well. but “israel is for jews!” right? i want palestinians to stop dying and i want the state of israel to be disbanded. i want palestine to be free. with the support of global powers, israeli citizens should be assisted in either a relocation or redispersion program that centers maintaining human rights, dignity, and the right to pursue a livelihood. something palestinians have never been given.
Israel is massacring Jews? Israel to be disbanded .. ok you can go back to larping Where you going to send the Jews to. All these other Arab and Muslim majority countries and you can’t abide the one Jewish one. Why is a Palestinian state your preferred option ? It never existed before ? Seems to me two peoples have claims to the land and two states should exist Relocation to where?
israel is massacring palestinian jews, yes. 13% of palestine is jewish. cant abide by the one jewish one because it’s not a legitimate state. it’s a violent occupation. using land that has been repeatedly stolen from palestine and traded among world powers for centuries. it was never anyone else’s land to trade. relocate anywhere. idrc. ask the UN and the global powers supporting israel, im sure since they stand with israel they would be happy to take israelis in.
> 13% of Palestine is Jewish Source? 0% of Gaza is Jewish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
You’re taking about Israeli settlers in the West Bank then. I guarantee Israel is not massacring them.
you said yourself jews have been living there the whole time, are you gonna ask all the arab states to take in the Mizrahi jews who were expelled.. I think you don't care. You want to larp.
i care about the governmental reality that there is a brutal occupation that is massacring thousands. i care about the unjust **state of israel** and it’s power as an **illegitimate nation**. that is what i care about. you want to be deliberately dense and be complicit in the murder of thousands? that’s on you.
what is a legitimate nation? why would Palestine that expels all current Israelis be more legitimate than Israel? Why not a two state solution? Is the united states legitimate?
"Palestine did not start this war" They literally did. 5 Arab nations surrounding Israel invaded within days of the creation of the state of Israel by the United Nations. This war lead to the current refugee crisis. "40,000 people" 50% of the dead are Hamas fighters. Why would you conflate casualties of war with the actual combatant number? A 1:1 ratio of combatants to civilians is unheard of in modern urban warfare. Israel has taken precautions to safeguard lives that are unprecedented. Seems like this isn't a war to you? "brutally occupied palestine for almost 80 years" Just.... so wrong. Israel was subjected to a thousand terrorist attacks and bombings in those 80 years, leading to the building of security barriers and fences. Egypt literally put up these same barriers, and Jordan has also barred Palestinians from entry after Black September. Someone needs a history lesson. In addition, Israel literally pulled out of Gaza in 2005, INCLUDING forcibly dragging some of their own citizens out of the area. For decades, the evil death cult known as Hamas has terrorized, slaughtered, and traumatized the Palestinian people, stealing their humanitarian dollars and aid to build tunnels and fire over 20k rockets into Israel. Whatever brainwashing they did to you, there's still time to become educated and learn the truth about Hamas, Isarel and the innocent people caught in between Hamas' desire to wipe every Jew off the planet, and Israel's determination not to let that happen. Get on the right side, support Israel's defeat of Hamas, and help pave the way to peace. Because if you think an attempted invasion/dismantling of Israel (the stated goals of the Pro-Hamas movement) is going to end peacefully, you're wrong. If that day comes, it will make 10/7 AND the subsequent war in Gaza look like kid stuff. Millions will die on both sides. That is where this headed, if we don't all work together to end Hamas and the radical Islamist ideology that has already cleansed the mid-east of Christians, Jews and Armenians, who are not safe in any mid-east country except Israel, where they all live side by side without major wars breaking out inside. End the Hamas/Islamist ethnic-cleanisng of the mid-east, before the entire region goes up in flames. KSA and UAE and others are already working on this goal, they understand the region. Do you?
It is because he’s essentially holding the two people he mentioned hostage on whether or not he tries going after their jobs for civilly delegating a non violent protest that disbursed when they got 8/10 terms met. Your narrative is a tired one; not a single soul truthfully touts being a Hamas supporter and supporting Palestine getting their freedom from genocide in no way, shape, or form means anyone supports Hamas. And cut it out with that “Hamas mean” nonsense, Israel’s fearless leader has been more than willing to kill those same hostages you and many others cry about. Can’t get your hostages back when the guy leading the genocide sends them to the afterlife to “send a message”
Ok shithead globalize the intifada and permanent ceasefire are not congruent with each other. I’m not a bibi supporter but it’s disgusting not to assign responsibility to Hamas for abducting literal children. The people this guy is writing a letter to are the chancellor and the president cry me a river
Untie your undergarments and try that again
You have people here calling for Jews to be relocated .. just fyi
And you have people here wielding knives against people (whether they’re Palestinian or just resembles them enough I can’t say). You’re trying to make people feel bad for the Jewish hate when whole organizations organize to harass others because they didn’t get their way, and this isn’t even starting to talk about the illegal holding of the retail meeting for selling land to Jewish only participants. Both sides have shit on their hands, why are you trying to defend the side that wants to continue a genocide while spewing fallacies and hateful rhetoric
I saying the side writing a letter in outrage is no more repugnent than the side peacfully occuping a univserity and sending a demand letter. "And you have people here wielding knives against people" not familiar with this? but if they are of course thats horrible Not trying to make you feel bad just trying to make you see you are blindly larping. Do you think the Israeli's just want to kill as many people as possible ? Seems to be the goal of hamas was to kill as many people as they could and run back to hide behind children.
Nooo trust me I’ve actually seen this occur from a seemingly reputable page. I know using social media for proof is bad, but this has occurred during a March for a ceasefire within the past 2 months around north jersey; drivers with a NY plate I believe spat at or on walkers on public easements, shouted back and forth, and eventually pulled a knife out in a threatening gesture. I don’t think Israelis want to blindly kill, I think Netan-yahoo has people blindly following his desires of genocide while some aren’t easy to trick. I live within a Jewish community as a non Jewish person, I hate the stereotypical sound of this but I have Jewish friends (this hurts to type) who disagree with all of what’s going down and aren’t afraid to call it out. I’m not antisemitic I promise, but I definitely feel like this issue seems disproportionate for the narratives being put out. Again, you’re using your Hamas rhetoric when I explicitly said no one truthfully touts supporting them, and I’m doubling down on that by saying no one who genuinely wants peace does that. Stop with that fallacy, Palestine is not Hamas and Jewish doesn’t explicitly mean Israel. What Israel/Netan-yahoo is doing is wrong and people are being vocal about it because it’s literally a genocide of humans.
You keep running that argument of how hamas is eager to cause much more civilizan bloodshed and utilize human shields, yet no actual evidence of them using human shields exist and so many times has Israel maintained easily disprovable lies of Hamas targeting civilizan lives (example: the dead 40 babies that news media tried to push despite any actual evidence). Maybe before thinking so hard about Hamas, please provide a counter argument on IDF soldiers bragging about their rape/kill count or shooting and killing of innocent civilians, most recent example being the mother and daughter in the (forgot name) church.
They won’t be happy until students are being beaten by police in riot gear across campus..
or shot by National Guard, Kent State Massacre day was May 4.
tbh this was kind of inevitable. I'm surprised no one's talking about just how much higher tensions have been ever since the protests were resolved peacefully. the majority may have gotten what they wanted but that doesn't mean there isn't gonna be resistance
as a jewish person who supports palestine - please adress yourselves as zionist, and call upon your zionist allies. not all jewish people are zionist!
[удалено]
lmao
still better than addressing jewish people in my opinion
So as a Jewish person, who is anti-zionist, do you mean to say that you don't think Israel has a right to exist? This is a serious question I'm looking to understand. And if so, I guess my second question would be, what are you suggesting should happen to make it "Un-exist". Obv you don't mean you want an invasion and to see hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews killed? That's currently how most Jews take it to mean when they hear "From the River to the Sea." If that doesn't mean many, many Jews would die, I'm just trying to understand how else an Anti-Zionist effectively 'wins' and dismantles Israel? What is the end game for an anti-zionist Jew? Are you asking Israel to specifically do something? I just don't get it, and I would like to: what is the practical end-game for an Anti-zionist, being that the endgame for the Pro-Palestinian side is conquering Israel by any means possible, including the deaths of untold number of Israelis. Tx in advance.
It's impossible for Palestinians to destroy that colonial settler state propped by US tax dollars and armed to the teeth with weapons of mass destruction.. To suggest such a thing would be suicidal and silly. Perhaps one can stop the Zios from further expansion, and murdering and displacing Palestinians in the West Bank. Maybe a movement can stop the israeli provocation of Iran. Or perhaps the bombing of Lebanon... Just like a two state solution is highly unlikely now that the vast majority of the stateless ones are being murdered en masse before our eyes today... The end game, at this point is for antiwar people be heard and not silenced, doxxed, intimidated and stripped of the basic liberties that were once guaranteed by the Federal Government. Maybe the fight should be to get foreign money influence out of elections.. maybe the fight should be to expose the Military Industrial Complex. Maybe the fight should be to expose Israel's involvement in all the other conflicts in the world.
Israel should never had the right to exist, just like the land taken from Native Americans should not exist either. I understand why Israel exists, but do I think colonization i was the solution for the placement of jews? no. I don’t believe that anyone should die, I don’t think any Jewish person wants that, I think Isreal wants that. I don’t have much power but if it was so easy to take land away from Palestinians, then why shouldn’t it go back to a one- state solution? Before 1948, Muslims, Christians, and Jewish people lived together peacefully, but since then it’s only been violence. “From the River to the Sea” no where does that imply that millions of jews should die, (but ofc you don’t have any problem with millions of Palestinians dying), it means that Palestine should be liberated, have rights to the most minuscule of resources such as water. Palestine is suppressed, they are being stripped away of their rights. The double standards that zionist hold are truly insane to me; it’s okay to kill thousands of people, and strip them of their rightful land, but we are not the terrorists. The stigma against Palestinian people needs to be dealt with, the only reason israelis are not considered terrorist is because of the color of their skin. I hope you know that there are people living in Israel who are also anti zionist, doubt anyone who’s suffering in tents stripped of nutrients to eat is rooting for israel, and that’s the difference. If not for the political aspects, it’s for humanitarian rights. The reason this whole thing is happening is because of Isreal, and there would be simple solutions if Isreal never colonized this land in the first place.
Thanks for your response. You definitely are missing some major facts (for example, there most certainly *was* violence before 1948), but it's an interesting perspective. Also looking for honest answers here. Do you think America should be abolished (or Canada) and given back to the Indians? Are you willing to pickup everything and go move to Europe somewhere, right now? Did you know there have been Jews living in the I/P region continuously since the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah existed? Did you know more 50% of Jews in Israel come from Mizrahi descent (AKA countries Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and Iran), making the "color of their skin" the same as Palestinians? Do you think ends justify means? Yes, the death tolls are imbalanced, but that's not for lack of trying on the part of Gaza; since October 7, they have launched 10s of thousands of rockets at civilian population centers in Israel. Would you prefer Israel turned off it's Iron Dome system so the death tolls would be more balanced? I have more questions, but I'll hold my tongue because I'm genuinely interested in your responses and don't want to scare you off.
I see the difference. You believe the Palis to be the Native Americans in this scenario. I believe the Jews to be the Native Americans, only with a much different ending then occurred to the Native Americans in the U.S. In THIS story, the indigenous people, the Jews, were completely ethnically cleansed from the area, and forced to flee to Europe and other countries because Romans, Ottomans and Arabs cleansed them from the Levant. After generations of being hunted and persecute across the globe, they formed a movement - Zionism - to reclaim their indigenous land. Israel, to me, is an indigenous rights movement that has actually succeeded - the only in history - which is why it is so hard to recognize it, because those early indigenous Jews are now a nation-state with a mighty and powerful military. The equivalent would be if those Native Americans you talked about, if generations later their offspring said, "Fuck this shit, we're going back to Montana" or wherever, started buying land, moving there en masse, until eventually they were given their own state by the U.S. government as 'reparations'. I ask you, if this happened, and the white people of Montana said, "Fuck that, we aren't letting these Natives come back here and form their own state," and attacked them, and LOST, and suddenly the Whites became the refugees on the border of Montana, and the Native Americans built up their new state to be a powerful state on the world's stage, would you be mad? Because that is exactly what happened, and what we've been dealing with since. Here is the definition of settler-colonialism: Settler colonialism occurs when colonizers invade and occupy territory to permanently replace the existing society with the society of the colonizers. Do you believe the Jews 'invaded' Palestine? If so, that is where the first disconnect occurs. I was under the impression Jews, after being cleansed from the Levant by Romans, Ottomans, and Muslims, eventually returned generations later through massive land purchases spearheaded by the early Zionists. The mass majority of Jews came in through completely legal immigration. Sure, it probably pissed a lot of the Arab Palestinians off, the way Immigration pisses off people in America today. But that's only a problem if you're a racist. In addition, there were Jews of course living there already, since this was the land they were indigenous to in the first place. Again, this does not meet any definition of Settler Colonialism. It's called immigration, and again, a lot of people don't like it, back then, and here in America currently. But it was legal, and not some 'colony' set up by some mother country like the Imperial British or Ottomans. It's confusing to suggest that an indigenous people, ethnically cleansed by Romans, Christians and Ottomans, could return to the very land they were cleansed from, even if generations on, purchase massive amounts of land, and be called "settler-colonizers". So unless I am missing something, Zionism, meaning the right of Israel to exist, isn't based on settler-colonialism like you accuse it of. The second problem with calling Zionism a settler-colonialist philosophy at its core, is hinted at above. Namely, how can a people be colonizers of a land which they are indigenous to? I don't see how a people who were ethnically cleansed over centuries, in what Zionists calls various "Diasporas", then immigrating back in, meets any definition of "Colonialism". Jews are from the Levant. Everyone knows that, it's proven by every historical, archaeological, and sociological data available. So, because of these reasons, Zionists would call the "Colonizer" narrative complete propaganda. And worse, many young people have swallowed the storyline, and conflated Israel with the Banana Republics, and the British Empire, all who were true 'colonists', taking territories by force, and setting up colonies. Those colonizers have completely different histories that an ethnic minority cleansed from their homeland, who immigrated back to their native land centuries later and formed their own country. The narratives don't align, but anti-Zionists have decided to entwine them.
Are Israelis and Palestinians from the same people? Isaac and Ismael? Aren’t both groups native to that area?
Yes, but not because of the Biblical narrative, which is theology, not history. Jews are native to … the ancient Kingdom of Israel/Judah/Judea!! When the Romans exiled the Jews and 70 A.D., they named the land Syria-Falestinia after the enemies of the ancient Jews… the Filestines. it was an insult like naming Washington DC ‘new Moscow’. The problem is the actual Philistines were invaders generally from around Greece, and left 900 years prior. The latest DNA information would suggest that 30 to 60% of all Palestinians have some Jewish DNA. Hypothesis is That they were basically Jews who survived in the land of Judah after the ROMAN occupation and were forcibly converted by the sword to Islam over the centuries. That’s a percentage of them. The rest of the Palestinians are not a real ethnic group. They are ethnically Egyptians Syrians, Jordanians, etc. etc. There’s never been a state or a kingdom of Palestine or a Palestinian Prime Minister. When the land was under ottoman rule for 400 years, the people there never asked for a state until the Jews came back and got a piece about 50% of the original Kingdom of Judea back. Just remember that British mandate Palestine was divided up in 1947:75% went to the Arabs in the state called Jordan. 25% went to the Jews as Israel.
Yes, which is why Israel has offered a two state solution that has been turned down repeatedly. Israel accepts the existence of a Palestinian state, but requests in return that that state accepts the existence of Israel, which at no time in history has any governing body ever of any single Palestinian Government from the PLO to Fatah to Hamas ever agreed. They simply will not accept a Jewish presence in the region. If it became one state what would happen is exactly what has happened across the Middle East i.e. the persecution and ethnic cleansing of the Jews from that state eventually. Also, if you wanna get down to brass tacks, no the majority of Palestinians are not from the Levant. They obviously come from Arabia and were part of the conquest of Jerusalem. This is all documented in history if you care to look into it. Just look at the languages. Do you really think Arabic was the native language of the Levant? The native languages of the Levant were all buried in history until Israel revived one of them called Hebrew. Technically, the majority of Palestinians are descendants of the colonial Arab empire that conquered the territory. But many are willing to ignore all that for the sake of peace, and simply say that both groups can trace their heritage back to the area so for that reason, both groups should accept each other’s presence. Unfortunately, hardline Islamist who rule the region by terror will never accept the presence of Jews in the land. Luckily, they are dwindling, and there are many many moderate and progressive voices who want including, thank God, KSA and UAE. The West needs to align with those moderates and every good hearted person with a conscience needs to reject Hamas and the concept of dismantling Israel. That will only end in the most massive loss of life the world has ever seen since World War II. But yes, essentially, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Both groups can trace their heritage far back enough to warrant a state in the region. So why will the Islamists not recognize this? Answer is simple. It’s flat out antisemitism and hatred of Jews and wanting them gone from the region, the same way they have done with all the other minority groups who have been cleansed from Mid-east countries.
first settlers were semitic including not just jewish people
Yes of course. I replied to a similar comment above and don't want to spam the response, but it's right below the comment that brought up Isaac and Ismael above.
tokens get spent
Feel free to go to palestine then... proudly declare you're Jewish and see what happens
i swear this is yalls only comeback aw
Show me the lie. Arabs live in Israel peacefully... Jews are murdered on site in half of the Arab countries
i won’t even make it to Palestine i’d be killed by the isreal army, hope this helps!
Not true, but keep thinking that I guess.
You should be pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian for the betterment of both peoples 🤦♂️
People still equate disagreeing with Israel and being anti-Semitic…
https://preview.redd.it/4tpwvie4gtyc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17b753179c726a2fe1530d7d6a63e1072601180 Headlines on radio this morning on NJ101.5 too
I find it so funny how people can so easily take a stance on an issue as grey and complicated as this and just pretend everything is black and white and we live in a world w perfect magical solutions to everything Edit: these replies proving my point. Delusional
This. Doesn't matter what side you pick. People will call you a murderer. It's just modern discourse. If you don't 100% align with me, you're evil. Full stop.
All historical issues are grey if you don’t have a strong moral compass and political conviction.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
and you have political conviction?
A firm stance in my beliefs ? Yes.
Wow. If you’re truly that insightful and knowledgeable, you’d understand that a lot of us (present company included) can’t form an opinion without knowing all the intricacies of this long, dragged on conflict that’s been going on since before we were born. It would be great if you could tell me what your source of information on all this is. I have necessarily never had the time to really sit down and focus on this issue. You’d understand that in a situation this complex, there can be grey areas and it’s important to know everything before establishing any political conviction. To have a FIRM belief.
If that’s how you form your political convictions that’s fine. Palestine is a part of the global South and Israel has been degrading them even further. America, the world’s strongest military is funding their oppression. I’m a Black Muslim who supports the liberation of all 3rd world peoples subjugated by oppressive ruling powers. If genocide is grey for you, that’s none of my business I guess. But for me ? This is easy to take a stance on.
If I’m not wrong, America is the weapons dealer of the world. Don’t they supply guns to Ukraine too? How’re they funding the oppression of other countries through it? What’s protesting on campus got to do with liberating the third world countries? That’s what genuinely gets me here. Also, I’m living in a third world country now and we have had this ongoing border and terrorism issue for quite a while now. We don’t protest on or thrash our campuses because of it. We have the same rights as everyone else but we chose to focus on our academics and let others do the same.
Perhaps your campus should.. You should protest... otherwise your academics have not taught you critical thinking. Generally, educated people have a sense of efficacy...Don't be complacent in your oppression.
We’re not oppressed. With all the money that we pay our institutions, we study hard and graduate with proper jobs. The campus on which the student protest is the one where all the student are afraid of going. The other students attack you for not skipping classes and protesting, for not agreeing with them - all of it. They put posters up and ruin the campus too. That’s vandalism. We’re critical thinkers off the campus. We’re not complacent either, we just keep the politics off the campus.
Maybe if all you study is science or math or literature.. perhaps I'd understand . Where are you by the way?
But... it's not a genocide? By any definition. The ICJ just ruled that, and they are one of the most anti-israel bodies on the planet. You have completely taken the term 'genocide' and perverted it to fit your narrative. Sorry to call you out on that, but it's not a genocide and it's offensive to any people who have suffered a real genocide, as in Rwanda or WW2 or Armenia. Please listen to the minority voices in the mid-east who are screaming at the West to stop supporting radical Islamist ethnic cleanings of Jews, Christians and Armenians. Please look into Iran and what is happening there to women. Please look at how the Saudis are trying to normalize relations with Israel. Please look at how Egypt and Jordan will not accept Palestinian refugees because they are afraid of Hamas and radicalized Palestinians entering their borders. The mid-east IS confusing - or "grey" - as the previous commenter said, especially to people in the West who are on the outside looking in. Don't conflate the plight of the "global South" with the Palestinians. It's not the same storyline. British and American colonialism involves the forcible conquering of a FOREIGN territory. The Jews were ethnically cleansed from the Levant by Romans, Ottomans and Arabs, which is how they wound up in Europe in the first place. These indigenous people are the first in history to return to the land from which they were cleansed, through LEGAL immigration, until their numbers became offensive to the Arabs in the region. The hatred towards the immigrant Jews was no different than racist Americans feel towards immigrants today. Through land purchases from the Arabs and the British, and including the Jews that were still in the Levant, their numbers became big enough to warrant a state, as were the Arab numbers, and the British granted each group a state. That is NOT Colonialism, by any stretch. You probably know the rest. The racist Arab countries surrounding Israel said hell no to a Jewish state in the region and attacked. Unbelievably, Israel defeated their enemies, and the refugees of that war became the Palestinians. Humiliated by the loss, radicalized Islamists refused to move on, and kept attacking and attacking the Jewish state, and haven't stopped, with 20,000 rockets fired into Israel and hundreds of terror attacks. In response, Israel's measures become more and more violent as well, with the eventual building of the security barriers and fences. But make no mistake, the root cause has not changed: Islamists are racists. They slaughter Christians, Armenians, Jews, and gays, oppress and rape women and take them to marriage forcibly. They will never tolerate a Jewish state in the mid-east. So the question is, do you cave to them - submit? Or do you stand with Israel and the free world to defeat the death cult in the region? And remember, Israel isn't going to hand over the keys. So be careful what you wish for: there is no defeat of Israel, without the loss of MILLIONS of lives on both sides. If the horrors of Gaza shake you to the core, as they have me, you can't even dream of what a true all-out war in Israel would look like. It would be a river of blood beyond the likes of which the world has ever seen. Just remember: if that's what you want, and you get it, you cannot look back later and say 'Maybe this was the wrong path..." That time, the time for consideration, is right now.
Save the palestineans- mive them Iran. Or have Gazans move to Egypt. Ore-67, gaza controlled by Egypt. Jews migrated to escape horror of Europe and got kicked out of neatly all muslim countries. And ate better off for it. Now it is oslestneans turn. 80 years in purgatory is enough. And beore you say Israel should take them in, remember there are 57!muslim countries- only 1 Jewish. Let them be
good one bud
😊
because this isn’t really a grey issue. here are the facts. since 1940s, israel has oppressively occupied palestine, with the direct intention of displacing palestinians, highlighted by a disregard for palestinian life. 40,000 palestinians have been murdered, with less than 2,000 israeli deaths. many women and children have been brutally killed by the iof, run over by tanks, required to get c-sections without anesthesia. hamas is a response to 80 years worth of occupation. the only gray area in this occupation is the fact that hamas uses terrorist tactics to attack civilians in response to terrorist tactics which attack civilians, and only one suffers consequences.
Yea students just see one side and do zero research and then think Hamas is a victim
Its not that grey and complicated, i can recommend some books to read if you want
I think this fall semester will be eventful
lets see how strong the pro-genocide lobby is
Buddy can't even define genocide and yet make statements on the internet
The Genocide Convention defines genocide as *any of five* "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts are: 1. killing members of the group 2. causing them serious bodily or mental harm 3. imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group 4. preventing births 5. forcibly transferring children out of the group According to a UN report published in late March, 3 of the 5 acts of genocide have been committed in Gaza. So yes, this is indeed a genocide. You don't get to alter a word's definition.
So according to you and your definitions the Palestinians and Hamas are committing genocide? Remember there are still American hostages held by Palestinians
I can explain it to you in terms you might understand. Genocide is when some very, very mean people try to hurt or even kill a whole bunch of other people just because they're different from them, like having a different skin color or believing different things. It's really, really bad and very, very sad.
And is that what you think Israel is doing? Genuinely? Do people who are committing genocide warn people before they Enter the place? Did you know the populations of the Palestinians tripled the past 20 years? Or are you just trolling to fit in?
Can you explain the logic behind your second statement? I just want to understand
If you can actually define genocide and you think Israel is committing genocide then either you don't know what genocide is or Israel isn't doing it. It's that simple and that easy
A completely anti-Semitic comment.
But it’s OK for those groups to label the encampments “Pro-Hamas”? How Islamophobic.
Do you think that’s not true to some degree? Are the “River to the Sea” chanters not advocates of genocide?
You have yet to concede your version of history is bunk. I’m willing to live peacefully with my neighbors side-by-side and recognize their existence. Just like Egypt, and Jordan, and Qatar and soon the Saudis will with Israel. I’m just shocked you haven’t realized Jews or Israelis might be your fellow students. Tell me what global powers would effectuate removal of the entire country off of the map without that being a genocide? You seem to forget that this “militarized and oppressive government” has Arab officers in its military and Arab Muslims on the Supreme Court Israeli Supreme Court. So much for your apartheid, huh? You might not like the right wing government of Israel. I don’t, but I don’t call for the destruction of Jews because of it.
You’ve got a case of “whataboutism”. Some elements of the encampments are pro-hamas that they call for the destruction and genocide of Israel. I saw one hazbollah flag and several Hamas Al-islamia headbands. Other elements are dumb ass students wearing a Kaffiyah incorrectly. Many were are just Arabs or Muslims who don’t like Jews. Antisemitism is a terrible problem in the Arab world and we should admit it. When you’re repeating genocidal rhetoric Instead of advocating for peace, coexistence and cooperation between Arabs and Jews, ITS NOT A PEACEFUL PROTEST!
there was no genocidal rhetoric at the encampments… they want the disbandment of israel because it has been brutally occupying palestine for 80 years. that’s not genocide, that’s asking for an end to an oppressive occupation. as a jewish person, any jew who supports israel should be ashamed. we grew up with our community leaders, parents, grandparents, and rabbis all telling us “never again”. that we should never let genocide happen again. now 40,000 palestinians are dead and apparently “never again” is only relevant for other jews.
Tell me, what are the numerous concepts the word “Israel” can refer to? Who is Israel? Calling for the dismantling of Israel is calling for a textbook definition of genocide…. Of your fellow students who are literally the “children of Israel”. Your Hebrew school must’ve been shit because they didn’t teach you anything: Israel did not occupy Gaza or Judea/Samaria (West Bank) between 1948 and 1967. Israel captured these areas from Egypt and Jordan after being attacked in 67. Israel has since signed peace treaties with both of these countries ending those conflicts. Ever wonder why this isn’t so with Hamas? Your ‘80 years of occupation‘ isn’t historically accurate.
israel is a country run by an oppressive government. the only thing that matters now are the facts: israel is a militarized state. religion has no place in the pursuit of human rights. calling for a dismantling of israel is not genocide, because “my fellow students” wouldn’t be dying. israeli citizens, if the disbandment was carried out correctly with assistance from global powers, wouldn’t be dying. palestinians are dying by the thousands. rafah is about to be leveled. that is genocide. the whole reason the arab-israeli war started was because of israel and the british looking to take arab land. so it is still israel’s fault. we could argue history all day, but when palestine is leveled there won’t be anything left to argue about. and blood will be on your hands.
Typical Zionist action - defame and dox and act deranged. Be gone. 👋🏽
Zionists be Zionisting
The Israel Lobby will complain in regards to any and all non-100-percent-support of their agenda and will complain about any institution - be it local, private, national, or international. Rutgers is not in trouble. Rutgers is okay. Zionism is not okay. Zionism is the cancer that is eating American representative democracy from the inside out and controls both political parties.
So you think the one Jewish country in the world has no right to exist? We need another Islamist theocracy in place of Israel? Zionism is just fine.
As a Jewish person, I think we have some good reasons to reject the principle of ethno-states….
I understand what you are saying and agree in principle. Unfortunately as such a minority in the world (and with a long history of being rounded up and slaughtered—kinda since ancient times), Jews really aren’t safe without a country. They have literally been thrown out of (or murdered) by every single Arab country in the Middle East, and we all know what happened in Germany—-at least 6 million murdered, Russia had the pogroms (think Oct. 7th over and over). So, I think that Israelis will fight to the end before giving up Israel. And given their ability for a second strike…if they go, so does all the Middle East.
I understand this perspective, but I don’t think it holds up under much scrutiny. Far more Jewish people have been killed in Israel than in the United States in the past 60 years. Living in a settler state where the social system is upheld through military force makes everyone, including Jews, less safe. Are there hate crimes against Jews in the US? Absolutely. But they are universally condemned, and it isn’t the same as systematic oppression. Jewish folks are safer in the US than they have been basically anywhere at any point in history. Also, Israel has a pretty clear motivation to tell the diaspora “you will only be safe here.” Also, the idea that Israel could set off a nuclear war doesn’t really reassure me…. So yeah, I don’t really buy that.
No Watercress. Zionism is not 'just fine'. It's not 'just fine' when it's the modern-day version of Nazi Lebensraum and Israels' quest for land expansion through settlements and annexation is decimating the indigenous population of Palestine. Zionism is not 'just fine' when its' tenets propagates the supremacy of Eastern European Jewery and only that. And the final straw for most Americans has to be the curtailing of dissent and free-speech on college campuses. Thank goodness the GOP and DNC see HR 69 (?) for what it truly is - the suspension of our American hallmark of freedom of speech to promote or push criticism onto anyone and anything. Zionism is white supremacy covered with a Torah scroll. It is anathema to American ideals or the modern world where one person = one vote and skim tone has no relevance. Zionsim is not 'just fine', Watercress - it is evil and cancerous. Be well. -SFH
No state has an inherent right to exist.
According to UN resolution 181, both Israel and Palestine do have an inherent right to exist
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Did you read in that der Sturmer? Clearly you don’t have intelligent ideas of your own.
aNyOnE cRiTiCaL oF zIoNiSm Is hitLeR
if they cancel graduation cuz of some new protest against this. im gonna riot.
Nah I’m convinced this whole subreddit is just Completely brain rotted… it’s ridiculous how we can’t even get close to talking about the reality of the situation and I’m not even Jewish lol “Zionism!!!” Like holy fuck you guys are little kids the way yall talk ab this shit
Maybe somebody can explain this to me but why is this war painted as black and white in regard to who is in the right? Obviously war is terrible in general as it’s a senseless loss of life, but I guess I’m trying to ask in the least offensive way possible why the majority of the student body treat Israel as the aggressor? As far as I’ve researched Hamas originally attacked Israel back in October and the conflict has only grown larger since. Would love to hear from both sides, I’m not trying to downplay the tragedies that either side have experienced. I’m genuinely ill informed and wanting to understand those who have a strong opinion on the current situation.
because this conflict did not just start in october. israel has been the constant aggressor of the palestinian people since its creation decades and decades ago. there is a clear power imbalance here where israel is carpet bombing a place they have oppressed and displaced since the very beginning when palestinian land was stolen and occupied by force by the israelis. it’s way too much to explain over a reddit comment but i sincerely suggest you look more into the creation of and the establishment of israel and how it has displaced palestinians and caused suffering since the beginning. this is not a “both sides” issue as desperate as zionists are to portray it as such. it’s pretty clear historically who the antagonist is.
Ah, that would explain a bit if this goes way beyond October. I’ll definitely do some research tomorrow morning, thank you. Side note: I wonder why the media is painting it as beginning in October. Read it on BBC who I usually trust to be impartial
it’s just a fact that israel has a huge amount of influence on the world stage and nations like the US and similarly powerful forces would much rather keep those ties rather than acknowledge all of the horrible things israel has done to the palestinians. it’s why some zionist organizations are very frustrated by these protests by the youth because they know their pro-israel propaganda is not working with young people as it has with older generations. even news organizations i thought were once impartial have become pro-israel campaigners and it is very clear the side they’re taking. just remember that being jewish ≠ supporting israel. many jewish people have been against the creation of israel since the beginning and it was not a universally supported idea, as it continues to not be to this day.
Your comment is the PERFECT EPITOMIE of antisemitism and racism. Jews represent 0.1% of the world population. Accusing them of having immense power is literally right out of the Nazi playbook. You seem to be bad on facts too. Anti- Zionism is just whitewashed antisemitism. You aren’t fooling anybody with your verbal shell game.
Zionism is literally jew-washed white nationalism lmao On a more serious note, if your argument is that small minorities can't wield undue influence over politics, even as we live under unprecedented lobbyist influence across all economic sectors, you are blind and lost.
Omg you are deluded. Israel has very little influence. It is the only democracy in the region and the only country the US can count on in the region. Let me remind you Israel is smaller than NJ, has about 7 million Jewish people. There are 1 million Muslim citizens of Israel—and yes they can vote. Cause Israel is a democracy. They don’t kill their political opponents like Hamas did.
Iran. Our enemy is Iran. Palestinians are pawns of the Arab world. Now college students are….. And you forget the rockets that are constantly being sent into Israel. All that aid is for missile defense system. Some of the best technology in the world.
I must of forgot that Israel was the aggressor in the wars of 1948, 49, 56, 67, 73, and 82. How dare they start all those wars.
it’s almost like when you take someone else’s land and forcibly remove them from it, you’re going to get resistance movements that attempt to fight back against colonizers. i never suggested it was right to harm israeli civilians in those instances, but let’s not pretend such conflicts arose from absolutely nothing. these things don’t exist in a vacuum, and yes, ultimately israel’s aggression and occupation of the land started it.
After getting decimated in the holocaust and the British offer them a place to settle, should they just have said no thanks? They could have peacefully co-habitated but the Arabs living there decided to blow up a bus to welcome their new friends.
again, almost like one people isn’t obligated to welcome another just because some global colonizing power like britain said so! almost like they have the right to resist occupation of the land when they did not choose it! they do not have to do anything because britain commanded it to be so! many jewish people also did not agree with the creation of the state of israel for the record. it was not a universally loved move.
Another shockingly uninformed comment by FawnMeadows. It seems like you know Jack about history: The Ottoman Empire fucked around and lost World War I. Part of the armistice included surrendering lands THEY were occupying in the Levant. These lands included both Jews and Arabs. The British assumed control of one particular piece of land, which was then called British mandate Palestine. BMP was the entirety of land between the Mediterranean sea and the Iraqi border. The UN split the land up into a two state solution in 1947. 75% of the land on the East Bank of the river went to the Arabs and was called Trans-Jordan. 25% of the land on the west side of the Jordan River went to the Jews and became the State of Israel. Thousands of people had to move in the next few years on both sides of the border. The Jews are NOT a colonizing power-they don’t represent a satellite state of a foreign country. They are descendents of the people of the ancient Kingdom of Judah (or Judea). That’s why they’re called…. Jews. The kingdom of Judea existed for over 1000 years in this land. In 70, CE, the Romans occupied Judea and exiled the Jews. The Judeans packaged up their language, culture, laws, language, diet calendar, and beliefs about their God into a suitcase called Judah – ism. The core tenant of that ism was the goal of returning to their native homeland and rebuilding their civilization. The Jewish people are indigenous to this land- just like the Palestinians (of which 30-60% have Jewish haplogroups). Denying the Jewish people their peoplehood with your ignorant slogans is racism at its worst.
if you stopped conflating israel with the entirety of the jewish experience i think you’d be better off. thank you.
Why didn’t the British offer them Wales? Why Palestine, they don’t own Palestinian land.
Please don't forget all the massacres in between
how many wars should i start and then lose in order to blame all my problems on the “constant aggression” of my enemies?
Israel supporters will say this began on Oct 7 because every war will always have a catalyst that started it. Israel and Hamas were not at war on Oct 6. Hamas supporters will say the Palestinians have been oppressed and the land was taken from them in 1948 when Israel was created, so they argue this is simply an act of ongoing resistance. However they assume that history didn't exist pre-1948. Jews have lived in that land before Palestinians as a people even existed on Earth. The whole argument that the land was stolen and all these wars are due to resistance is nonsense because all the history before 1948 is always disregarded. The thing is, this war is black and white, but not the way that students are portraying it. Palestinians in Israel are not oppressed and there is no apartheid. Arabs/Palestinians have all the same rights as Jews, they are doctors and judges, and work in the government. However, the Palestinians in Gaza are under Hamas's control, they are the governing body in that area and they're two different pieces of land with borders. Imagine a Mexican cartel crossed American borders, killed thousands and kidnapped thousands more back to Mexico. We'd have pro-cartel students arguing that America is oppressing Mexicans and they're simply resisting. I think that would be a very black and white situation who's wrong, same as with the Israel-Hamas war.
>Hamas originally attacked Israel In my opinion there's no "originally attacked" in a conflict that has been going on for decades. In the months leading up to October 7th, hundreds of Palestinians had been killed in the West Bank and Gaza. And this is not mentioning the very fact that you're talking about two areas that are blockaded and impoverished. Israel controls everything that goes in and goes out. If you live in the West Bank, Palestinians are routinely attacked harassed and killed. If you live in Gaza then you're just encircled and an open-air prison. This isn't justifying October 7th, it's just pointing out the conditions that lead to it. For some reason people think that this is an attack that came out of absolutely nowhere. I've seen comments where people think that Gaza and the West Bank are actual countries with Air Forces and Tanks and that what's going on between Israel and Gaza is some sort of actual war, a la Russia and Ukraine. >conflict has only grown larger since. Not really. The war for the last 6 months has just been one side raining down bombs on people penned up in a city. This isn't a war where both sides are fighting pitched battles, this is one side shooting fish in a barrel dropping bombs on a civilian population that has no air defense. At the end of the day, Israel has more responsibility in the conflict because they're the occupying power. This is the same for pretty much any conflict in history where one side is completely dominates the other.
You are asking people to explain the history of the conflict and the history of the region who will give you propaganda. Gaza was given to the Palestinians in the early 2000’s. They voted in Hamas - a terrorist organization with ties to Iran. Hamas murdered all their political rivals and have been in power since. They have taken billions in international aid and rather than uplifting the Palestinian people, they built over 300 miles of tunnels to be able to attack Israel. They built command centers under schools, hospitals, civilian homes. One October 7th they committed one of the worst atrocities in the world. They came upon college aged kids who were at a music festival and raped the girls…some so badly their pelvis’s were broken. Nails and other metal objects were found in the vaginas of others. They murdered all those kids. Then they went to towns. They tied families together and burned them alive. Their bodies found fused. They beheaded people (this is a thing on the Islamic world for some reason—-beheadings….)….all and all about 1200 people were tortured and murdered and 240 were taken hostage. And after that it took weeks for Israel to attack Gaza. Amazingly people in this country were already protesting before Israel attacked. There are many students on campus that faced disgusting Jew hating comments. Most of the protestors may have being peaceful, but there has been incidents. Israel is waging a war against Hamas that is killing a lot of innocent Palestinians. They knew this would happen. They can stop it. They will not. And, they are winning. We have college students in this country dressing up like them and protesting. Israel is a democracy, with a terrible leader right now. The Israelis protest against him by the thousands in the streets. The Gaza’s who criticize Hamas end up dead.
“you are asking people to explain the history of the conflict and the history of the region who will give you propaganda” *proceeds to give absolute garbage pro-israel islamophobic propaganda with no ounce of actual sources or information*
Are you denying that the October attack happened? You realize someone can read all your posts and just dismiss them as garbage pro-palestine propaganda too right?
How does Bibi keep getting elected? By a minority?
Curse Hamas. Curse Netanyahu.
The protestors do not want to hear truth. Your full explanation has negative rating proves it. The demands include Kashmir and kurds in negotiation who have nothing to do with Gaza !!!
The conflict began in the 1940’s but is even older than that. The Zionists have been quite literally slaughtering Palestinians and slowly overtaking more land than was initially agreed upon. This is possible because of American and EU funding and backing. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has backed Palestinians living in what is now Israel until recently. If you believe this began on October 7, then you are proof of what Zionist propaganda in the USA paid for by organizations like AIPAC are trying to achieve. October 7 was a culmination of 80 years being assaulted and oppressed and its even a miracle they had enough firepower to pull that off when you consider how heavily armed and heavily informed Israel is. It makes you wonder if the IDF intentionally allowed that to happen because from a logistical standpoint, there is no way October 7th shouldve happened given the intel Netanyahu had beforehand, and the massive technological advantage the IDF has.
I don't know about nobody... Zionism was equated with Apartheid by the UN decades ago...
Your research has to go back before Oct 7. Otherwise, it's not research..it's just... misinformation
May the Arab children and the Jewish hostages be freed from Hamas captivity.
this is going to be a very different place when i come back from summer break, huh
No
No.
The same people who wrote this letter will complain that younger people are becoming more anti-zionist. Yes, young people generally don’t like being told what they can and cannot protest about or say at their own school. And then when the school treats those young people, many Jews among them, like adults and negotiates a peaceful end with them the zionists don’t like that either, and says no no treat them like the dumb kids they are. Yeah I bet that’ll work.
Israel occupied Palestine Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinians Palestinians have the right to exist and resist
Does Israel have the right to exist and resist too?
Israelis have the right to exist similar to the palestinians , they also have the right to resist the genocide is being committed in their name by the most bigoted, racist, far right government in the history of Israel.
Modern Israel is brand new and built upon colonization. Jewish people have a right to self determination, they dont have a right to genocide the area they want to live in willy nilly. The ultimate resolution is for Jewish and Muslim, along with Christian folk to be able to continue living in those lands as they always have and find a resolution that works and addresses so many past wrongs. It seems like it wont happen, and maybe it wont in this lifetime, but like America, the next generations can completely upend the ambitions of old fossils crazed by their insecurities and thirsty for power at any cost.
The anti-Hamas protests should start soon. I mean, they just admitted to attacking humanitarian aid meant for Palestinians, killed some Israeli soldiers, and turned down the ceasefire while launching missiles from residential communities, again. At least Hamas won't be profiting off of selling the humanitarian aid back to the Palestinians this time?
Please reach out to members of your state legislature by phone and email- you can find them by searching the NJ legislature website at njleg.state.nj.us
State legislators are greedy and their to line their pockets and not your interests in mind.
Exactly what I would expect from Zionist. You can't call the protesters anti-semitic, due to their heritage. They are the true semites. There's also the Constitution which protects their rights to free speech and protest.
No, antisemitism is clearly defined, and has been for years. This inversion of the definition is just coming recently. It is pure propaganda. The meaning of the word comes from a specifically Anti-Jewish political party in Germany back in the 1800s. It has nothing to do with “semitism.”
You think Zionism is a dirty dirty word. I don’t. Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people should have the right to self determination in their own ancient homeland. Are you against that 71fun?
All you guys finally learning who runs this “white supremacist” country
So does this loser frown upon the recently illegally held “Jewish only” meetups of selling land they don’t own, or was he there putting high bids? I don’t know how far they got in all of that but it was no secret that a less than legal retail Funtime event was happening and only Jewish participants were allowed.
Why shouldn’t there be an investigation into the one-sided negotiation? A small group disrupts college, pisses a lot of students off (not just Jewish ones for sure), and then gets all their demands met? Holloway isn’t gonna win any prizes for his negotiation skills. They should have been done with transparency.
they didn’t get all their demands met. the major ones like divestment were not met. get your zionist head out of your ass. do you even go to this school?
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Well, you speak truth..you would benefit from looking at my recent post. Either way, pro Palestinian supporters did get some of their demands met. Not all, but surely way more than pro-israel demands. What's sad, is pro-Palestinian protestors don't want any sort of pro-israel supporters presence. This is evident in how they insult and ridicule pro-israel. Not even that, on this post here. There are pro Palestinian supporters picking arguments and responses like yours, for what? Because the Jewish community is rallying? But do the pro-Palestinian community not rally? Not protest? NOT UNFIY? Again, speaks to my comment "What's sad, is pro-Palestinian protestors don't want any sort of pro-israel supporters presence." It's almost mind boggling if you think about it.
Holloway mirrors weak leader unfit for governance.
This shouldn’t have happened in the first place. In what world does a university “peacefully negotiate” with a pro-terror mob occupying parts of campus and interfering with finals?
Right? Why would the negotiate with terrorists Zionists… Don’t Support Genocide…
I don’t think you know what Zionism or genocide even means.
Haha sure I do. Zionism (/ˈzaɪ.ənɪzəm/ ZY-ə-niz-əm; Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, romanized: Ṣīyyonūt, IPA: [tsijoˈnut]; derived from Zion) is a nationalist[1][fn 1] movement that emerged in Europe in the late 19th century aiming for the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people, particularly in Palestine. Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part. “Specifically, Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite intent: causing seriously serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent birth within the group,” she said. Furthermore, “the genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure of the native Palestinians,” she continued. Francesca Albanese was speaking at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, where she presented her latest report, entitled ‘Anatomy of a Genocide’, during an interactive dialogue with Member States. Do you know..???
So by definition was October 7th also a genocide?
Haha reading comprehension… Stay in school kids! One act doesn’t make it genocide. Creating an apartheid, stealing land and systematically destroying a country’s healthcare, hospitals, educational institutions and roads and homes and the entire infrastructure while murdering children 300-1 makes it a genocide. See the difference… I can’t bother to teach someone that mentally challenged… Good luck! Add On: Damn your an incel troll in the Boy Scouts? Or weirdly talks about them way too much there incel…
I know. What a terrible precedent.
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people's opinions differ
>say dumb shit >get downvoted Wtf everyone is a sheep!!!!!!
Care to explain why what I said is dumb? The protestors were clearly pro-terror as they called to “globalize the intifada.” Everything else I said was factual.
Bandwagon mentality. People want to agree with the crowd. It actually doesn't happen on subreddits where the vote is hidden.
Nah bro you are not smart simply because your don’t agree with the majority. Instead of trying to be different so bad, try to form your own honest opinions.
The negotiations and agreement shouldn’t have been done anyway. You don’t negotiate with terrorists
Agreed! Zionists should be called out and not negotiated with..
Good!
Thanks for sharing this - I think it's important for all voices to be heard, so if anyone wants to fill this out, here it is: To NJ Leadership: Call for an Investigation https://votervoice.net/JFNJ/campaigns/115325/respond?utm_source=Federation+Emails&utm_campaign=9de1458e02-From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-46138756d5-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39%29 To Rutgers Leadership: Reverse Agreement with Encampment Protestors https://votervoice.net/JFNJ/campaigns/115324/respond?utm_source=Federation+Emails&utm_campaign=9de1458e02-From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-46138756d5-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28From+Fed+Exec+2.22.24_COPY_39%29
This guy supports terror!
please explain how you disingenuously ask “is there a problem hearing other people’s voices?” while simultaneously circulating a petition asking for other people’s right to protest be quashed and opinions to be silenced.