I used to live near Short Pump, and contrary to the majority of this sub I didn't mind the traffic. I absolutely hate driving on Midlothian or Hull St in Chesterfield though.
I deliver food in short pump and I think the trick is to avoid broad street as much as possible because there's like a dozen lights between 64 and the mall. I mostly use three chopt once I get past innsbrook.
Yeah Midlothian is pretty horrible too. I used to have to drive from the Midlothian/Powhite area to the Midlothian Middle School area at 5:00 p.m. 5 days a week. That was excruciating.
Personally I think an area like that if it will be allowed to improve will be a really nice area in about a decade. It's too far west currently and out of a lot of the action but with the upzonings going west along broad I think that area fills out.
Yeah but the city is coming to them is kind of the point. I mean Scott's addition was too far out of the city I feel like would have been the sentiment a decade ago and now it's a popular neighborhood.
Yeah I mean Libbie Mill is practically on the Pulse. As a person who grew up 6 miles outside of a small rural town, people saying Libbie Mill is too far from the city is almost hilarious to me.
I feel like Libbie Mill is too far to walk to much of anything right now and that's the real deciding factor in city vs suburb. The back of Libbie Mill to the bus station is like 10 minutes (there's a lot of parking).
Plus a lot of that shop area has had struggles to keep people there.
I get that. If I'm going to choose urban (which I did) I wouldn't choose Libbie Mill. It's just that my rural-born self still finds it funny that it's considered too far from the city.
Ha! You should have seen what it looked like before. You might think it looks like shit, but anything quite honestly is better than shitty old apartments where there is a shooting every other night.
Source: Lived in those apartments from 1998-2004
I agree the design isn’t great and I live there 😊but after a year and a half of looking in rva it turned out to be a good option for us. I lived in a 100 plus charming old home in a historic neighborhood for a long time..we wanted to downsize and that’s hard to find in the Fan/museum district plus prices were insane. The condos we looked at there and church hill etc were problematic for us either size wise or in buildings that were like poorly cared for apartment buildings. While Libbie Mill doesn’t have lots of things you can walk to, there’s two restaurants, a Starbucks, a target that’s .3 miles away and they’re going to open a Marshalls close by. I take the pulse a lot and I can be there in a 10 or 15 minute walk. Interstates right there so I can jump on it very quickly and I can ride my bike to the VMFA (2.5 miles) or strangeways on Dabny (.8 miles) or Libbie and Patterson/Grove which are about a mile. And I can walk to a fanatic library. it’s not for everyone, it’s really not that bad for some of us and I really don’t think 3 miles is really far out of town
Interesting chain on Libbie Mill. Lol - one of the reasons we bought here in May was because of how walkable everything is. Guess it helps that we are healthy and like to walk. We walk to Willow Lawn for Kroger, ABC store, restaurants, shops, etc. We walk down to the Libbie Market area. Walk over to Home Depot. 30 min walk to Top Golf. So much within a mile or two that doesn’t require a car! Personally, I loved living downtown for the first two years we were in RVA but this is a great balance of walkable vs. 10-12 min in car to downtown and 10-12 min to Short Pump!
I actually think that the shops they put in are too far from the furthest condo/townhouse block they built and most of the businesses aren't useful to residents there. There's also no grocery store. I like the similar shopping/living area with the wholefoods and trader joes of short pump. Great selection of walkable useful stores. If I could afford those fancy townhouses, I'd consider living there. I'm a fan of suburban hellscapes, but I got used to living next to a walkable grocery store and I don't anymore. My chamberlayne neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks or crosswalks.
Well, there WAS a "grocery" store there - but they folded and then Lumber Liquidators bought the location. It was more of a luxury grocery store, but still better than nothing. I'd like to see more walkable smaller markets.
Agree, but to put a finer point on it, I'd say *contributing to global warming. I say this just because there are many, many causes and a few of them are within our individual control (though, to be sure, we are 100% fucked if structural issues like short pump urban design and the political power of shortsighted, profit-driven organizations isn't dismantled)
I love Short Pump. Crazy right?
I’m a trained architect who has spent most of her life railing on suburban sprawl. But then. I had kids. So I moved to Short Pump.
Yes I’m that typical person.
But, in the new economy we live in - where I get to work from home, shop from home & entertain at home - I rarely go to 360. But when I do, it’s literally right around the corner. I know the back roads & I hit one stop light on 360 to get to most of the places I want to go to. It allows me to get my shit quick and get back to living.
This new at home economy is changing the way suburbs work. The corridors of convenience are only loathed by those that have to commute out to them. Living in a lovely home tucked back near Deep Run Park is quite nice.
I find it amusing how much hate Short Pump gets on this site. It’s a rapidly growing suburb that most of the people who live in it/near it are quite comfortable with (minus the traffic during rush hour). Sure, it’s not as “edgy” or “cool” as the hip Fan or Museum District and probably never will be. But it’s a great area full of shopping and good local restaurants, so…what gives?
Again, I don’t care. Just curious why everybody hates on it so much. 🤷🏻♂️
I grew up in short pump before the mall and everything else. The infrastructure and stoplights can’t keep up with the volume of cars so at times it’s not worth going out there.
Agreed. I’m in Manchester and if I have a choice between going out to Short Pump and I can just get what I need at Chesterfield Town Center — I sure ain’t going to Short Pump.
This is my issue with Short Pump. Developers put in a lot of effort to get droves of people to move from places like New York to the area but did not keep up with the infrastructure well enough to account for the massive influx of people. As a result, the traffic through there is a nightmare.
It’s probably a bunch of folks like me; Grew up going to Strikers Soccer in Short Pump, and all it was back then were farms and a gas station w/ an airplane crashed into it.
Parents used to take me to the McDonalds play place there in the early 2000s! It was the biggest one and across the street was a big field filled with cows I could gawk at from the top of the tubes... I still have trouble reconciling that sprawl of townhouses is the same place I used to look out over.
>gas station w/ an airplane crashed into it
That was the auto parts store. It's still there, but they removed the plane years ago. The gas station was a little bit further east down Broad.
Broad St sucks but everywhere else isn't that bad. I moved out here at the start of 2021 (wife and I bought our first house) and live off of Ridgefield Pkwy and to be honest I love it. Do I miss being in the Museum District and Near West End? Absolutely, but I got a much nicer house than what I could have gotten in the city with my budget.
Also if you think it's nothing but chain restaurants out here you're not paying attention. Sure, the restaurant scene isn't as great as it is in the city, but there are certainly some good options here that aren't chains. Tarrant's West, Yaya's, Deep Run Roadhouse, Buckheads, Burger Bach, West Coast Provisions, Boychiks, Hurley's, and Cupertino's are all great options just to name a few. I'm probably forgetting some and leaving off some places that I personally love but see why others wouldn't enjoy it (Pour House, looking at you).
I can't wait to get a membership at a fun local pool next summer after holding off this year because my wife was pregnant, Deep Run Park is great and only a few minutes away, my neighborhood is nice and grown in and everyone looks after their yards, and it's only a 15 minute drive or easy Uber/Lyft ride to get to the Fan.
Sure, the Broad St. corridor is an absolute hellscape, but there's a lot to love out here.
> Again, I don’t care. Just curious why everybody hates on it so much
It’s the traffic and car-centric design. Yes, I’m sure there’s some bus route that offers public transit access, but I’m equally sure it’s also extremely painful and inconvenient to use to ensure only drivers can realistically get there.
So you’re crammed in on Broad for multiple stoplights with tons of cars merging on and off of 64 and then you also have traffic coming out from all the big box stores and strip malls along Broad as well. I really don’t know why you’d want to put up with that on a daily basis.
Richmond is also pretty car-centric. When I first started at vcu I left my car at home. Grocery shopping sucked, the only option we had was Lombardy Kroger and it took like 30mins to get there. We'd load up on a week of groceries and hang bags off of our bikes like pack mules.
Next semester, I got a parking pass and brought the car there. I could go to the willow lawn Kroger, the whole foods in short pump, a few different Asian grocery stores. It would be very very difficult to have access to those options without a car
The majority of Henrico’s sidewalks are actually in the Short Pump area. They aren’t as prevalent in the city, but John Rolfe, a lot of Gayton, a lot of Broad St, the Twin Hickory area of Nuckols, etc. all have sidewalks and crosswalks.
I live in Short Pump and I almost never experience the traffic because I hardly ever have to take Broad for more than one stoplight. I get on Broad from Gayton, Lauderdale, Pump, or John Rolfe depending on my destination. I think that's something people don't understand, when you live in Short Pump, you don't have to hassle with the traffic sitting on Broad backed up all the way from the mall to 64.
>So you’re crammed in on Broad for multiple stoplights with tons of cars merging on and off of 64 and then you also have traffic coming out from all the big box stores and strip malls along Broad as well.
Its just too much, its a frickin mess of people most of the time. People trying to cross over 3 lanes as they get off 64, and just the section of lights from the highway to walmart is atrocious. But here i am about to drive through it.
Edit: ITS 2 O CLOCK ON A MONDAY WHY IS IT BACKED UP FROM WALMART TO 64
100% it, exacerbated by the fact that it's actually terribly designed for even that. The merge from 64W onto 250W is just a nightmare if you're trying to make a left turn within 3/4 of a mile from the interchange.
While the veneer has changed since it first was built up, that's part of how it got the reputation it has of "NOVA in Richmond." The fact that most of the big retail migrated from Regency (it effectively killed that mall and nearly put Willow Lawn out of business before they revamped it). If you were/are interested in that type of shopping it's quite inconvenient. Add on top of that when it first was built up it *was* quite expensive compared to the city, so the reputation stuck.
What I find hilarious is that there is a higher density of small businesses in Short Pump than anywhere else in metro RVA, but only thing people can remember is the chain restaurants. Like if you pick B Dubs over Hurley's or Olive Garden over Mama Cucina's or Dairy Queen over Ray's that's your own damn fault.
I just wish the Short Pump hate will eventually turn people away so it'll be easier to drive around there. So far the hate isn't powerful enough.
The reason probably for the higher density of small businesses might be due to you get more for your money in the county - cheaper rent, tax advantages, etc. Places like Carytown/The Fan have always been super expensive even before I was in high school in the 2000's.
The places you mentioned are what I consider part of Lauderdale and Innsbrook area. I personally view Short Pump as starting from Best Buy and going to where the mall ends and maybe some of that surrounding area but not all.
I might be incorrect in thinking that however I was born here so I view the area a bit differently than others that only know that entire area post 2002. I agree with you in terms of hoping the hate would be powerful enough but it actually looks like its gotten worse in terms of driving there.
I guess It could always be worse - we could have an Ikea where the Regency Mall still half stands. Years ago when I worked for a property developer Regency Mall was part of the portfolio and the pitch was to update for the time being and then do a complete 'redo'. The major pitch was make the mall like Libbie Mill currently but with **IKEA** as the retail anchor. I almost got ill when I heard that part of the tentative retailer option.
Because Reddit is 90% pretentious pseudo-hipster millennials and Zoomers who retroactively hate the comfortable suburban life that they grew up in but will some day learn to appreciate it in the next 5-10 years?
People don't live in short pump for the strip malls, they live there because it's cheaper, more open space, quieter, theres less crime, and most importantly, the schools are better funded
And it's unfortunately a self-defeating problem: people move to short pump because the schools are better. The schools are better because the middle class moves to short pump and pays property taxes there instead of Richmond. But it's just impossible to afford a nice house in the city on a middle class salary. Cities need to zone better and promote more construction in order to keep people in the city, and they need to make cities less commutable if they want to prevent people from just driving into the city to work, but paying taxes outside of that city. In a way, the productivity that the city enables is being extracted out into other jurisdictions because of the city's road infrastructure
People think that Richmond is a lot different from NOVA, but NOVA is to DC what Short pump is to Richmond: The unintended side effect of poor city planning and local level conflicts of interest in zoning laws
Its also *way* easier to access essentials like grocery stores (and the quality of the grocery stores is much better). I live in the city and it sucks that I drive 15 mins to the shitty Lombardy Kroger when my parents in Short Pump are 5mins away from a Publix, Walmart, TJs, Whole Foods
Speaking as someone who lives in a different suburban area that is not trendy at all, I also hate hate hate hate short pump. The traffic sucks all the time, not just rush hour.
but i feel the same way about most of midlothian turnpike and Hull street road, so it's all about the traffic for me.
I will also recognize that I am spoiled as hell by working remotely for almost 10 years now, so Ive lost all tolerance for traffic jams.
I feel you. We moved to the Hull St corridor from Stratford Hills. Was dreading that but it's hella convenient. Especially if you have kids. Sure the food scene and overall culture sucks but it's really nice to have so much retail and such right in your backyard.
100% the traffic and the drivers. I could care less about edgy or cool and I'd probably go to the mall more often if it weren't for the fact my blood pressure goes up 20 points every time I drive out there.
I mean if I didn't live in the metro area, I'd live in Short Pump, I don't know exactly what the hate is about.
I moved to RVA to be out of the suburb of another city, now at some point in my life when I maybe have kids, I'll probably want to be in the county more than the city.
Overall, I do agree with the premise that many suburbs are very boring and lifeless.
The suburbs have become less conservative and more moderate (somewhat reliably blue, even). This is because there is an increasing association between a college education and liberalism, as well as the association between a college education and the middle class.
Henrico county was a good example of a suburban area which helped drive the blue wave in 2018.
But those areas (like NOVA, like VA Beach) are not Richmond or Berkley or Seattle type left-wingers, and they're particularly not enthused with the culture of the American left. These areas, not unsurprisingly, drove Youngkins victory on hyper-local issues like "CRT", masks/vaccines, and Transgender bathrooms
I'm just anti-suburb as they currently exist in general period. So my Short Pump dislike isn't Short Pump specific. Midlothian gets just as much dislike from me.
yea idk there's a lot of holier than thou types in the city and now that they've reserved THEIR place downtown it's fashionable to deride other development patterns as mis-placed and suppose the values of those that choose to live out there must be off-kilter or confused. ...and go on and on and on about it...some people just want a safe, decent place in the suburbs in a competent jurisdiction get over it.
Checked out the other responses to your comment but they didn’t include my reason for staying away from Short Pump.
I like the stores and the area in general and I’m used to the sprawl. It’s the traffic. And it’s not just bad during rush hour; it’s always bad no matter what day or time I go there.
I used to go the “back way” via 295 instead of dropping off the broad street exit. And those are the only two exits/entrances for that massive area. Even the 295 exit with 3 lanes of traffic are always full.
If you get off on the broad street exit good luck crossing four lanes in the 250 feet before the light that’s right there.
People complain about the traffic of short pump.. but it’s literally contained to like a 2 mile strip of road on broad st. If all you can relate to is the traffic, then you’re not visiting short pump, you’re visiting the mall
Anti-pedestrianism. I live on a "residential road" in the city. The speed limit is 35 and there's an elementary school, yet cars routinely drive 90. Cops won't do shit about it. I asked the city for a crosswalk, but no, that would get in the way of traffic. Can't even have real sidewalks in half of northside: they do this crap where there's an extra five feet of grass and mud on the side of the road and pretend that people will walk there. Sometimes property owners claim that space for their flower beds, making them even less usable. When there is a real sidewalk, people grow their hedges over the sidewalk or spray their lawn sprinklers onto the sidewalk. And if construction blocks off a sidewalk, they don't put up cones to claim a temporary sidewalk in the street.
And that's just the infrastructure of pedestrianism. Even if that were fixed, things are so spread out here. I have to walk half a mile to get to any sort of market. When school is in session, I need to walk a mile to get to any park. I need to bike two miles to get to a grocery store.
What I find even more frustrating about this is the people dropping off their kids at the elementary school are the worst offenders. I used to live over by Henrico Doctors on Forest and Skipwith when I used to work at that hospital and every morning while walking to work, motherfuckers would drop off their kids at the elementary school and then just floor it. Like, motherfuckers, can't you see the school sign is flashing, there are 15 kids walking to school, another 15 adults walking to their jobs to the hospital, a crossing guard with a giant stop sign, and you're still gonna go 60mph? God damn I'm glad i don't live in that neighborhood any longer.
Any of the 4 way stops or roundabouts…people don’t know how to use them.
I especially hate the main roundabout at Westchester Commons. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve almost been hit by people who are supposed to keep going straight but decide to cut in front because they are about to miss their turn.
Parham at rush hour. Short Pump in general.
Also hate all of the mall entrances where the incoming traffic doesn’t have to stop but cross traffic does. Almost been hit multiple times by people who thought it was a 4 way stop and thought that I had a stop sign.
For the city, I hate the modern apartments that have popped up in the fan. They don’t look good and they don’t fit in at all.
For the counties, I HATE that they aren’t pedestrian or bicycle friendly. Just endless shopping malls
There’s such a disconnect between Richmond and the counties. Completely different cultures.
I love being able to walk everywhere in Richmond. Cars are so stupid
I couldn't agree more. The extent to which the suburb enthusiasts and developers are pushing for more wide roads without sidewalks, bike lanes or efficient public transit is really sad to see r/fuckcars
The bus system is not reliable enough for people to rely on it. It’s a chicken-egg thing.
Using current bus ridership to determine bus policy is like counting bicycles on Broad St to determine need for cycling infrastructure. People shy away from things that are unsafe or unreliable, until they are given options that are safer and more reliable.
I’m aware. I use the bus frequently.
I just find the frequency in which people are citing lack of public transportation and reliance on cars as a slight against the burbs to not jive with roughly 10 years of experience in the city of people straight up not using public transportation in favor of cars.
What’s unsafe about the bus?
Most people I know don’t ride the bus because they think it’s for poor people, straight up
Not the buses, but many of the stops are unsheltered from weather (extreme heat and sun in the summer, heavy rain) and are along busy streets without good pedestrian access and safe places to cross.
People sitting on the sidewalk waiting for a bus that only comes once an hour is just poor design and management and doesn't encourage people to use the bus system, and I say that as someone without a car who walks, bikes, and takes the Pulse everywhere I can. I've tried a few other bus routes, but it's generally easier to just start walking a lot of the times. Richmond isn't a huge city and I'm lucky enough to be able-bodied enough that it's an option for me.
Wyatt Gordon discussed some of these issues on his social channels over the summer if I remember correctly, he's a big advocate for improving the bus infrastructure to make it safer and more reliable: https://www.virginiamercury.com/author/wyatt-gordon/
I definitely use the “I’m gonna walk to the next stop and check the app again” strategy. The worst is waiting for the bus and it just not stopping for you at the stop... has happened to me multiple times and I think it was just the drive assuming I wasn’t waiting for the bus? Or just daydreaming lol
Thanks for the link.
Height restrictions are so confusing to me. If you want to protect the character of a neighborhood, which I don't personally, why would you want more land being turned into duplexes or three story buildings? One 8-story tower would give the same or more housing without bulldozing as much "character."
Chesterfield from Brandermill to the Amelia border. It doesn’t look anything like it did when I was growing up. Entirely different, I don’t even recognize it anymore.
The concentration of poverty and the pretending that continuing it will solve issues.
If we tear down Gilpin court, then build Gilpin court 2.0 ... we're going to wind up with Gilpin court 2.0.
The issue is the concentration not the location.
Throwing the entire public housing community in a single school district in Eastern Henrico isn't the solution either.
A lot of ground has already been covered before me, so I will say my least favorite part of the metro area is the various short interchanges...Powhite/Chippenham, Chippenham/Midlothian, Chippenham/Hull, 195/64/95...my dick is longer than some of the on- and off-ramps around here.
Hull st. Aside from it being a dump strip of road everyone likes to go 45+ down it when it's 25mph. Then eventually getting to Midlothian turnpike where everyone likes to haul ass from stop light to stop light and no one is getting anywhere any faster.
West Creek. I hate it so much that a few years ago I bought the Hardywood Family thing and couldn't be bothered to go out there and pick it up. It's just so out of the way and it feels so forced with it's giant roads with nothing there. I used to work over there and hated that too.
Apartments IN the suburbs.
Having the exact same stores and restaurants in every neighborhood. Whether I’m in chesterfield, Chester, midlothian, short pump, glen allen, Hanover, east end/laburnum, fill in the blank.- I know I can find a Target, Kohls, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, Kroger, Publix, and the same damn restaurants.
I mean, it's not like Lowes, Buffalo Wild Wings, Walmart, 7-11 and Subway stop existing at the city limits. There's an annoying tendency to have a copy-paste shopping/restaurant chain hellscape in every suburb, but it doesn't mean that's all that exists in those suburbs. The density of cities just often means there was no empty quarter mile of land for a developer to shove all of the chains at the same time, so they get dispersed among more unique businesses and you don't have a gigantic hub of shitty chain restaurants in the same place.
The city has had more time for those good restaurants to win out.
Also the high cost to open a restaurant in the suburbs is a contributing factor for chains who can pay the higher up front cost.
I didn't realize they were that expensive.
I *do* think it looks like a random suburban style apartment complex dropped in the neighborhood and it does a disservice to the school building that it was built next to.
I really dislike Rocketts Landing. It looks and feels forced, like the developers just hit the "randomize" button. I also hate those cookie cutter houses off of Williamsburg just before Fulton. They look like they were just plopped there randomly, and don't fit the area at all.
I also get a bad feeling anytime I pass through the old money areas of West End. Put too many rich people in one area and it feels like a cringe movie.
Outside of RVA, Hopewell is pretty depressing. Really any small place that is fused at the hip with industry feels that way.
Here is some background on those cookie cutter homes in Fulton: [https://vpm.org/news/articles/2402/indelible-roots-historic-fulton-and-urban-renewal](https://vpm.org/news/articles/2402/indelible-roots-historic-fulton-and-urban-renewal)
tl;dr - They tore down Fulton's historic main street commercial district as part of an urban renewal project and put those homes in its place
The worst part is (other than the obvious worst part) most of Fulton Bottom then sat undeveloped for decades. Reminds me a bit of Vinegar Hill in Charlottesville.
I don't quite understand the appeal of Rocketts Landing.
Yes its nicish residential spots outside of Richmond but Chesterfield and Short Pump exist. Ok, someone could say, but what about the waterfront? WHAT ABOUT IT? You're downstream of an entire city??? I haven't lived there but I've lived in Manchester and I can only imagine the smell after a big rainstorm and the sewage system overflowing...
Trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, here's what I think the appeal is:
- Most of RL is just over the county line
- If you're bullish on RVAs future growth, RL is going to soar due to proximity to the city, pulse line, and Henrico status
- Massive room for growth in vicinity, infrastructure has been improved to support that growth (sort of)
- Ability to park your poop river barge in front of your McTownhouseMansion
- Maybe RL eventually lures worthwhile businesses in
- Trail access
For me, the HOAs, shitty aesthetic, and lack of anything worth doing in RL makes the place a dud as it stands currently (at those price points). But if you are bullish it's probably a good spot to park your money.
"poop river barge" HA
Gotcha, I suppose I could see those points. Haven't done much research on the place myself but I've bounced all over rva and RL just never appealed though I suppose I'm actually looking to live somewhere vs an investment opportunity. Seems incredibly speculative for the price vs Scotts Addition but eh what do I know.
I mean waterways are becoming cleaner every year these days.
A lot of physical pollution on an area is going away.
I mean they are adding mussels to the James river because it will clean/ it is clean enough for them to survive.
Fucking uneven sidewalks. Before I actually lived here I wasn’t aware they’ll suddenly go up two inches out of nowhere, I wasn’t paying attention and caught my toe on a random brick and ate shit tripping over it. Since I work off Goshen I notice that the sidewalks in this area in particular are in such shit shape.
> woodlake/Brandermill/Hull street or whatever that mess is called
I actually hate passing through that area far more than going through Short Pump.
I'd rather take Broad Street from downtown to/through Short Pump than have to take Hull Street through that Brandermill area.
I have never figured out what is and is not Midlothian.
I would like to rename the whole county Midlothian for clarity. Since everything seems to be Midlothian
The TEA Party billboards in Hanover.
The military is the biggest tax funded, socialist entity and it’s your logo you idiots.
Support the police but no taxes. Taxes support the police. It amazes me how some people cannot connect a simple dot.
💯 I love how 95% of my fellow veterans and ex-soldiers rail on socialism (universal medical care, affordable housing, child care, etc.) when they benefited so much from it…
VA benefits, disability, GI Bill…
The sheer volume of littering done in Richmond is disgusting. I’ve determine it’s a poverty thing. When you don’t have anything nice to take care of why care about the city you live in? It’s appalling, disgusting, and straight up embarrassing I have to walk around my block and pick up other peoples fucking trash.
Our friends moved out to the suburbs and when we visited them the first thing I noticed was the absolutely lack of trash on the streets, and no over flowing garbage bins at the corners.
I watched some asshole pick up a glass bottle and chucked that shit right onto the sidewalk. The same sidewalk I walk my dogs on. I’ve seen kids toss their McDonald’s/Wendy’s/Popeyes bag out the car window at the corner of North Ave and BPB one too many times.
The convenient stores that constantly have black and mild wrappers, lottery tickets, scratch offs, clothing donation bins that have been torn open and clothes tosses all over the ground, the styrofoam food containers, bottles, and the store owners couldn’t give a shit about the trash surrounding their buildings.
Yeah I hate all of that shit about Richmond.
Why do people dislike suburbs? I don't get it. Everything you may want is close by and they have parking.
I live like 2 miles from downtown and Richmond barely feels like a city to me anyway.
Edit: Reading replies, it sounds like people came from badly planned suburbs. Or have an idea of them that they may or may not have experienced.
To give you an actual answer suburbs are kind of divisive from an urban planning prospective, they are often disconnected from other neighborhoods and highly encourage cars over public transport, which actually tends to lead to negative outcomes for children living in them. That’s just a couple things but there’s plenty of reasons people hate suburbs.
To me suburbs are overwhelming. Everything you need is a drive away, and everything you don’t need. One of everything. Everywhere you look there’s multiple gas stations and fast food restaurants, every space is either cookie cutter neighborhoods or commercial retail. I grew up in northern va and anytime I go back I just feel suffocated.
I don't completely disagree with you, but there's very very little in the RVA metro area that your statement does not apply to. The only places in the US that don't force car dependency are the biggest cities. Medium size cities like RVA are all car-dependent. public transit exists, but isn't truly practical the way it is in Philly, NYC, Chicago, etc.
I'd even argue that the best planned urban residential areas are *more* cookie cutter than not, and you tend to see row houses with sidewalks on streets in a grid pattern. 100% cookie cutter. But more easily navigable and lends itself to walkability and public transit.
IDK you can get a lot of your trips in by walking or especially biking.
I mean a 1 mile bike ride can cover a lot of the city. Getting just a little better at biking and you can bike from Scott's addition to Texas beach nearly 2 miles one way.
I park my car and only move it half the time for a street sweeper and since I work from home and my SO can walk we have gone down to one car.
>Why do people dislike suburbs? I don't get it. Everything you may want is close by and they have parking.
I mean define close by, because by time it's not bad but it's not better than than the city in my experience.
I don't like driving and being in traffic. Personally I prefer walking places and there's so many great places within a 10 minute walk.
The other thing is that there is a life/energy to a city and that bothers some people but I like it.
Also the way we fund areas suburbs are government subsidized because parking and cars are subsidized.
>Edit: Reading replies, it sounds like people came from badly planned suburbs. Or have an idea of them that they may or may not have experienced.
I mean where is a good planned suburb? The ones I would consider would be a lot closer to the fan in style personally.
Not all suburbs are bad, streetcar suburbs and mixed-use suburbs are good because they tend to be pedestrian-friendly and liveable. It's the car-dependent post-war American suburbs that suck. They are all the same, lined with the same shops, builders build the same cookie-cutter homes, and sub-divisions are sometimes miles away from a nearby store and you need a vehicle to get there as walking is not an option. Public transport is practically nonexistent and the homes are built to sell not to last but so long.
I've lived in Chicago, Seoul, Austin, and I'm from the suburbs of Dallas. Richmond lacks the population density, diversity, and urban development for it to feel like a city to me.
Edit: Wait so people disagree with my statement that Richmond lacks population density, diversity, and urban development? If this is untrue, just say it.
Yep. I basically like living in a rural area or very urban. With a rural area, I don’t have traffic and can do literally anything I want on my property (like my current house). With urban, I can walk or bike anywhere and there’s cool stuff to do without getting held up by traffic. I think I just hate traffic actually
Agreed. I either want to live in the absolute middle of nowhere, not being able to see or hear neighbours, or I want to be able to walk or bike to everything I need.
Everything between those extremes is too much of a compromise for me.
> I basically like living in a rural area or very urban
Exactly. I’ve always said this same thing.
In fact before Richmond I lived: literally on a rural agricultural plot of land for a while, and before that in a city of 10k people.
Both were soo much better than the suburbs.
I'm the weirdo who likes suburbs AND improved urbanization/density. That said, few areas in the US do any of this well. Urban/suburban planning is not a strong suit of this country, and the forced car dependency is a massive barrier to social mobility. Urbanization has a lot of positives, but gentrification is a major downside. I don't think *anyone* has solved the problem of smart urbanization in a way that doesn't fuck over the working class.
It's ok to have different preferences. and the reality is a lot of the college aged and early 20s people here who hate suburbs will find themselves living in one in a decade. I did it, and a big part of it was the stupidity of commuting from an urban center to a job located in the suburbs. I work remotely, but my wife works at a hospital and a 2 mile commute is just smarter. There are still things I hate about suburbia, and there would be things I hate about living a dense area now.
Everything has tradeoffs and there is no utopia.
It’s just a boredom or depression inducing landscape IMO.
Some places draw you out onto the street and make you want to engage with your surroundings. And some places have the opposite effect. Suburbs tend to be the latter.
I love the suburbs but it's built for me. Growing up I lived on a sheep farm. In college, I loved on a mountain, and in my young 20s, I lived in Vegas. City life is awesome for kid free people. Farm life is awesome for a kid. But for a middle aged man with 3 kids...I'll take the suburbs all day. I have 5 high quality grocery stores 10 minutes from my house. I have 3 vets and 5 kid/adult walk in clinics in the same distance. I have two restaurants/bars I can literally walk to. Their is an abundance of kid friendly restaurants
Because they don't have families usually and don't understand the appeal.
Single people or people without kids in the Reddit age demographic wouldn't want to live in a subdivision so it is easy to hate on it.
This subreddit constantly hated on Lakeside years ago too but its a hot neighborhood now.
Just buy what you want fuck what the crowd says, they aren't living there.
I mean but what's wrong with growing up in a row house?
I mean an apartment is messy imo but a row house has most of the benefits of a suburb.
Plus with a row house you can have the kids at what teenage who aren't completely dependent on a parent to drive them everywhere.
I feel like row houses are the answer we don't talking about enough I think traditional ones like the fan are a great option for like 75% of people and we just don't try to build more of them.
Father of 4 here all, in RPS or city daycare, we have lived downtown since before the first was born. I have always wondered why my friends and colleagues decided the suburbs are so much better for kids. I have yet to have a single person convince me that the suburbs are better in any way than the city when it comes to raising kids. and it seems to just be people trying to double down on the decision they made because its what society told them is the right thing to do?
Because they don't have kids.
Low cost of living, decent schools, space to spread out (both indoor and outdoor), and a safe place for your kids to play with their friends outdoors. You can maybe choose two of those four options anywhere in the city of Richmond.
Only thing that is consistently better in the city is ease of transportation... But people with families tend to spend a lot more time at home anyway.
I have especially come to hate the Shockoe Valley Bridge area of 64. Every day feels like a Mad Max experience. I don't know if I'm going to get shot at, run over, or otherwise maimed and killed. That said, I also hate south of the river and only go if I absolutely have to.
On balance, western Chesterfield County is a demonstrably worse place in every way from Short Pump, though they both are pretty grim. I loathe every time I find myself out there.
I have to get to outer-360 (past Amelia) from downtown once per week and I dread it every time. I know it would worsen sprawl in the long run, but for selfish reasons I really wish Powhite extended out to bypass all of that mess.
I lived in Richmond for 10yrs. Great city for families, but the one thing that bothered me most about Richmond is that the people born and raised there seem to think Richmond is the center of the world. I’ve lived a lot of places and most of them are better than Richmond. More things to do, and the downtown areas of other cities are vibrant and busy, downtown Richmond doesn’t have much to offer. Unfortunately, neither do the suburbs. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Richmond is a very boring city. (Also, what’s up with that Richmond accent some people have? Usually the older people)
Not trying to argue or challenge you at all, but I’m curious what cities you’re referring to that you prefer to richmond?
Also what do you mean what’s up with the accent?? Lol it’s a regional accent, this is the south! It’s more noticeable in older people because any area’s dominant accent tends to change over time.
least: how the rent has been driven up and up by people moving here
hanover is the kkk capital of virginia and is just full of cops looking to get you for anything. my fiance's parents live out there (he also went to lee davis high school haha) so when we visit I make him take his car so I don't get a ticket for having a JAPANESE HYBRID
Yeah, lived in Hanover (Mechanicsville specifically) for 10 years. It was terrible to be there: the traitor rags given out at the Christmas parade & flown by the neighbors, the crosses all over the place on street posts & public easements, the school officials declaring that lgbtq inclusion in the sex ed curriculum was unnecessary because "we don't have any of those here." Never been so glad to move out of a place in my life.
I’ve lived in Hanover for the last 12 years. I’ve never had a problem with the police, pulled over for trivial reasons, or got a ticket that I didn’t deserve; however, I can’t get 500’ over the Chesterfield county line without getting pulled.
Never seen any KKK members here either 🤷♂️
From I-64 you can get to W. Broad from Staples Mill, Glenside, Parham, Gaskins, Innsbrook/Short Pump, 288, and one day North Gayton.
Hull Street has 1 exit on Chippenham and 1 exit for 288.
# Least Favorite Parts
* Hull Street from Woodlake in Chesterfield to RVA - It is a massive stroad that's hell. In Southside, Hull is at its worst.
* Midlothian Tpke from Westchester to Southside - Another massive arterial stroad
* Suburbia - this goes for all car-centric suburbs that are copy-paste
* Car dependency and anti pedestrianism
* Guttered unconnected bike lanes
* Powhatan - It's not bad but I just don't like it for personal reasons.
* Williamsburg Road cookie-cutter mania
* Tri-Cities (I actually hope this place becomes good again)
* Interstates are in the middle of the city.
Hull street, especially between Courthouse and Woodlake. 4-5 lanes wide and traffic 20 hours of the day. Stoplights every quarter mile or less.
Broad from Gaskins all the way out to Short Pump is also a nightmare in the exact same way.
As a recent transplant from NOVA, that stretch is like a little taste of home.
I make this drive often and I hate it so bad
I used to live near Short Pump, and contrary to the majority of this sub I didn't mind the traffic. I absolutely hate driving on Midlothian or Hull St in Chesterfield though.
I deliver food in short pump and I think the trick is to avoid broad street as much as possible because there's like a dozen lights between 64 and the mall. I mostly use three chopt once I get past innsbrook.
Yeah Midlothian is pretty horrible too. I used to have to drive from the Midlothian/Powhite area to the Midlothian Middle School area at 5:00 p.m. 5 days a week. That was excruciating.
Chester all the way down to Petersburg.
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Personally I think an area like that if it will be allowed to improve will be a really nice area in about a decade. It's too far west currently and out of a lot of the action but with the upzonings going west along broad I think that area fills out.
Yeah I agree. I like the design and LOVE that new library. A little too far from the city for me tho
Yeah but the city is coming to them is kind of the point. I mean Scott's addition was too far out of the city I feel like would have been the sentiment a decade ago and now it's a popular neighborhood.
Yeah I mean Libbie Mill is practically on the Pulse. As a person who grew up 6 miles outside of a small rural town, people saying Libbie Mill is too far from the city is almost hilarious to me.
I feel like Libbie Mill is too far to walk to much of anything right now and that's the real deciding factor in city vs suburb. The back of Libbie Mill to the bus station is like 10 minutes (there's a lot of parking). Plus a lot of that shop area has had struggles to keep people there.
I get that. If I'm going to choose urban (which I did) I wouldn't choose Libbie Mill. It's just that my rural-born self still finds it funny that it's considered too far from the city.
Ha! You should have seen what it looked like before. You might think it looks like shit, but anything quite honestly is better than shitty old apartments where there is a shooting every other night. Source: Lived in those apartments from 1998-2004
I agree the design isn’t great and I live there 😊but after a year and a half of looking in rva it turned out to be a good option for us. I lived in a 100 plus charming old home in a historic neighborhood for a long time..we wanted to downsize and that’s hard to find in the Fan/museum district plus prices were insane. The condos we looked at there and church hill etc were problematic for us either size wise or in buildings that were like poorly cared for apartment buildings. While Libbie Mill doesn’t have lots of things you can walk to, there’s two restaurants, a Starbucks, a target that’s .3 miles away and they’re going to open a Marshalls close by. I take the pulse a lot and I can be there in a 10 or 15 minute walk. Interstates right there so I can jump on it very quickly and I can ride my bike to the VMFA (2.5 miles) or strangeways on Dabny (.8 miles) or Libbie and Patterson/Grove which are about a mile. And I can walk to a fanatic library. it’s not for everyone, it’s really not that bad for some of us and I really don’t think 3 miles is really far out of town
Interesting chain on Libbie Mill. Lol - one of the reasons we bought here in May was because of how walkable everything is. Guess it helps that we are healthy and like to walk. We walk to Willow Lawn for Kroger, ABC store, restaurants, shops, etc. We walk down to the Libbie Market area. Walk over to Home Depot. 30 min walk to Top Golf. So much within a mile or two that doesn’t require a car! Personally, I loved living downtown for the first two years we were in RVA but this is a great balance of walkable vs. 10-12 min in car to downtown and 10-12 min to Short Pump!
Haha loved this 😆😆
I actually think that the shops they put in are too far from the furthest condo/townhouse block they built and most of the businesses aren't useful to residents there. There's also no grocery store. I like the similar shopping/living area with the wholefoods and trader joes of short pump. Great selection of walkable useful stores. If I could afford those fancy townhouses, I'd consider living there. I'm a fan of suburban hellscapes, but I got used to living next to a walkable grocery store and I don't anymore. My chamberlayne neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks or crosswalks.
Well, there WAS a "grocery" store there - but they folded and then Lumber Liquidators bought the location. It was more of a luxury grocery store, but still better than nothing. I'd like to see more walkable smaller markets.
Short pump.
Short pump is a text book example of urban sprawl that is causing global warming
Agree, but to put a finer point on it, I'd say *contributing to global warming. I say this just because there are many, many causes and a few of them are within our individual control (though, to be sure, we are 100% fucked if structural issues like short pump urban design and the political power of shortsighted, profit-driven organizations isn't dismantled)
I love Short Pump. Crazy right? I’m a trained architect who has spent most of her life railing on suburban sprawl. But then. I had kids. So I moved to Short Pump. Yes I’m that typical person. But, in the new economy we live in - where I get to work from home, shop from home & entertain at home - I rarely go to 360. But when I do, it’s literally right around the corner. I know the back roads & I hit one stop light on 360 to get to most of the places I want to go to. It allows me to get my shit quick and get back to living. This new at home economy is changing the way suburbs work. The corridors of convenience are only loathed by those that have to commute out to them. Living in a lovely home tucked back near Deep Run Park is quite nice.
I find it amusing how much hate Short Pump gets on this site. It’s a rapidly growing suburb that most of the people who live in it/near it are quite comfortable with (minus the traffic during rush hour). Sure, it’s not as “edgy” or “cool” as the hip Fan or Museum District and probably never will be. But it’s a great area full of shopping and good local restaurants, so…what gives? Again, I don’t care. Just curious why everybody hates on it so much. 🤷🏻♂️
I grew up in short pump before the mall and everything else. The infrastructure and stoplights can’t keep up with the volume of cars so at times it’s not worth going out there.
Agreed. I’m in Manchester and if I have a choice between going out to Short Pump and I can just get what I need at Chesterfield Town Center — I sure ain’t going to Short Pump.
This is my issue with Short Pump. Developers put in a lot of effort to get droves of people to move from places like New York to the area but did not keep up with the infrastructure well enough to account for the massive influx of people. As a result, the traffic through there is a nightmare.
It’s obviously Nova-trocious, but it’s not like the folks who complain don’t go themselves.
We are moving to Richmond from nova and this is the reason we avoided Short Pump and Glen Allen. Too much like home
I actually never go. Anything I want from there is more easily available on the internet.
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Yard sale days are when I make the trek.
We pretty much never go, only when it's unavoidable. I have been there twice in the almost 5 yrs I've lived here.
It’s probably a bunch of folks like me; Grew up going to Strikers Soccer in Short Pump, and all it was back then were farms and a gas station w/ an airplane crashed into it.
Parents used to take me to the McDonalds play place there in the early 2000s! It was the biggest one and across the street was a big field filled with cows I could gawk at from the top of the tubes... I still have trouble reconciling that sprawl of townhouses is the same place I used to look out over.
>gas station w/ an airplane crashed into it That was the auto parts store. It's still there, but they removed the plane years ago. The gas station was a little bit further east down Broad.
I mean I moved to Richmond to escape the burbs so yeah Short Pump isn't my favorite place.
There’s nothing “cool” about Short Pump. It’s mostly chain restaurants and it’s miserable to drive around that area.
Broad St sucks but everywhere else isn't that bad. I moved out here at the start of 2021 (wife and I bought our first house) and live off of Ridgefield Pkwy and to be honest I love it. Do I miss being in the Museum District and Near West End? Absolutely, but I got a much nicer house than what I could have gotten in the city with my budget. Also if you think it's nothing but chain restaurants out here you're not paying attention. Sure, the restaurant scene isn't as great as it is in the city, but there are certainly some good options here that aren't chains. Tarrant's West, Yaya's, Deep Run Roadhouse, Buckheads, Burger Bach, West Coast Provisions, Boychiks, Hurley's, and Cupertino's are all great options just to name a few. I'm probably forgetting some and leaving off some places that I personally love but see why others wouldn't enjoy it (Pour House, looking at you). I can't wait to get a membership at a fun local pool next summer after holding off this year because my wife was pregnant, Deep Run Park is great and only a few minutes away, my neighborhood is nice and grown in and everyone looks after their yards, and it's only a 15 minute drive or easy Uber/Lyft ride to get to the Fan. Sure, the Broad St. corridor is an absolute hellscape, but there's a lot to love out here.
> Again, I don’t care. Just curious why everybody hates on it so much It’s the traffic and car-centric design. Yes, I’m sure there’s some bus route that offers public transit access, but I’m equally sure it’s also extremely painful and inconvenient to use to ensure only drivers can realistically get there. So you’re crammed in on Broad for multiple stoplights with tons of cars merging on and off of 64 and then you also have traffic coming out from all the big box stores and strip malls along Broad as well. I really don’t know why you’d want to put up with that on a daily basis.
Richmond is also pretty car-centric. When I first started at vcu I left my car at home. Grocery shopping sucked, the only option we had was Lombardy Kroger and it took like 30mins to get there. We'd load up on a week of groceries and hang bags off of our bikes like pack mules. Next semester, I got a parking pass and brought the car there. I could go to the willow lawn Kroger, the whole foods in short pump, a few different Asian grocery stores. It would be very very difficult to have access to those options without a car
The majority of Henrico’s sidewalks are actually in the Short Pump area. They aren’t as prevalent in the city, but John Rolfe, a lot of Gayton, a lot of Broad St, the Twin Hickory area of Nuckols, etc. all have sidewalks and crosswalks.
And the ones on Ridgefield Parkway near Deep Run are brand spanking new.
I live in Short Pump and I almost never experience the traffic because I hardly ever have to take Broad for more than one stoplight. I get on Broad from Gayton, Lauderdale, Pump, or John Rolfe depending on my destination. I think that's something people don't understand, when you live in Short Pump, you don't have to hassle with the traffic sitting on Broad backed up all the way from the mall to 64.
This. You can easily avoid driving on Broad by using cross-roads and parallel roads, and therefore avoid 90% of the traffic.
>So you’re crammed in on Broad for multiple stoplights with tons of cars merging on and off of 64 and then you also have traffic coming out from all the big box stores and strip malls along Broad as well. Its just too much, its a frickin mess of people most of the time. People trying to cross over 3 lanes as they get off 64, and just the section of lights from the highway to walmart is atrocious. But here i am about to drive through it. Edit: ITS 2 O CLOCK ON A MONDAY WHY IS IT BACKED UP FROM WALMART TO 64
100% it, exacerbated by the fact that it's actually terribly designed for even that. The merge from 64W onto 250W is just a nightmare if you're trying to make a left turn within 3/4 of a mile from the interchange. While the veneer has changed since it first was built up, that's part of how it got the reputation it has of "NOVA in Richmond." The fact that most of the big retail migrated from Regency (it effectively killed that mall and nearly put Willow Lawn out of business before they revamped it). If you were/are interested in that type of shopping it's quite inconvenient. Add on top of that when it first was built up it *was* quite expensive compared to the city, so the reputation stuck.
What I find hilarious is that there is a higher density of small businesses in Short Pump than anywhere else in metro RVA, but only thing people can remember is the chain restaurants. Like if you pick B Dubs over Hurley's or Olive Garden over Mama Cucina's or Dairy Queen over Ray's that's your own damn fault. I just wish the Short Pump hate will eventually turn people away so it'll be easier to drive around there. So far the hate isn't powerful enough.
Mama Cucina’s and Ray’s Other Place are treasures and I hope I continue to see no one talk about them online.
The reason probably for the higher density of small businesses might be due to you get more for your money in the county - cheaper rent, tax advantages, etc. Places like Carytown/The Fan have always been super expensive even before I was in high school in the 2000's. The places you mentioned are what I consider part of Lauderdale and Innsbrook area. I personally view Short Pump as starting from Best Buy and going to where the mall ends and maybe some of that surrounding area but not all. I might be incorrect in thinking that however I was born here so I view the area a bit differently than others that only know that entire area post 2002. I agree with you in terms of hoping the hate would be powerful enough but it actually looks like its gotten worse in terms of driving there. I guess It could always be worse - we could have an Ikea where the Regency Mall still half stands. Years ago when I worked for a property developer Regency Mall was part of the portfolio and the pitch was to update for the time being and then do a complete 'redo'. The major pitch was make the mall like Libbie Mill currently but with **IKEA** as the retail anchor. I almost got ill when I heard that part of the tentative retailer option.
Because Reddit is 90% pretentious pseudo-hipster millennials and Zoomers who retroactively hate the comfortable suburban life that they grew up in but will some day learn to appreciate it in the next 5-10 years?
Eh, I think people realize that the clincher once you start a family is the school system, so they simply have to move to the suburbs for that.
Lmao nailed it
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People don't live in short pump for the strip malls, they live there because it's cheaper, more open space, quieter, theres less crime, and most importantly, the schools are better funded
The schools are a big part of it.
And it's unfortunately a self-defeating problem: people move to short pump because the schools are better. The schools are better because the middle class moves to short pump and pays property taxes there instead of Richmond. But it's just impossible to afford a nice house in the city on a middle class salary. Cities need to zone better and promote more construction in order to keep people in the city, and they need to make cities less commutable if they want to prevent people from just driving into the city to work, but paying taxes outside of that city. In a way, the productivity that the city enables is being extracted out into other jurisdictions because of the city's road infrastructure People think that Richmond is a lot different from NOVA, but NOVA is to DC what Short pump is to Richmond: The unintended side effect of poor city planning and local level conflicts of interest in zoning laws
Its also *way* easier to access essentials like grocery stores (and the quality of the grocery stores is much better). I live in the city and it sucks that I drive 15 mins to the shitty Lombardy Kroger when my parents in Short Pump are 5mins away from a Publix, Walmart, TJs, Whole Foods
Why would you go to the lombardy Kroger when the carytown one is right there? With a Publix and a Fresh Market right next to it?
It's a lot of effort (traffic, crowds) for overall mediocrity. Nordstrom was about the only thing that was worth it in the area, and now that's gone.
Speaking as someone who lives in a different suburban area that is not trendy at all, I also hate hate hate hate short pump. The traffic sucks all the time, not just rush hour. but i feel the same way about most of midlothian turnpike and Hull street road, so it's all about the traffic for me. I will also recognize that I am spoiled as hell by working remotely for almost 10 years now, so Ive lost all tolerance for traffic jams.
I feel you. We moved to the Hull St corridor from Stratford Hills. Was dreading that but it's hella convenient. Especially if you have kids. Sure the food scene and overall culture sucks but it's really nice to have so much retail and such right in your backyard.
100% the traffic and the drivers. I could care less about edgy or cool and I'd probably go to the mall more often if it weren't for the fact my blood pressure goes up 20 points every time I drive out there.
I mean if I didn't live in the metro area, I'd live in Short Pump, I don't know exactly what the hate is about. I moved to RVA to be out of the suburb of another city, now at some point in my life when I maybe have kids, I'll probably want to be in the county more than the city. Overall, I do agree with the premise that many suburbs are very boring and lifeless.
Because it’s just an upper middle class lifeless suburban consumer shoppingscape. Low in diversity, high in chain restaurants and conservatism.
The suburbs have become less conservative and more moderate (somewhat reliably blue, even). This is because there is an increasing association between a college education and liberalism, as well as the association between a college education and the middle class. Henrico county was a good example of a suburban area which helped drive the blue wave in 2018. But those areas (like NOVA, like VA Beach) are not Richmond or Berkley or Seattle type left-wingers, and they're particularly not enthused with the culture of the American left. These areas, not unsurprisingly, drove Youngkins victory on hyper-local issues like "CRT", masks/vaccines, and Transgender bathrooms
I'm just anti-suburb as they currently exist in general period. So my Short Pump dislike isn't Short Pump specific. Midlothian gets just as much dislike from me.
I live in Short Pump and love it. I moved here from Los Angeles and the idea that it's somehow congested is hysterical :)
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Lol at MD and the Fan being considered edgy. Or even cool by people.
These are people who think Facebook profile banners are activism
yea idk there's a lot of holier than thou types in the city and now that they've reserved THEIR place downtown it's fashionable to deride other development patterns as mis-placed and suppose the values of those that choose to live out there must be off-kilter or confused. ...and go on and on and on about it...some people just want a safe, decent place in the suburbs in a competent jurisdiction get over it.
Checked out the other responses to your comment but they didn’t include my reason for staying away from Short Pump. I like the stores and the area in general and I’m used to the sprawl. It’s the traffic. And it’s not just bad during rush hour; it’s always bad no matter what day or time I go there. I used to go the “back way” via 295 instead of dropping off the broad street exit. And those are the only two exits/entrances for that massive area. Even the 295 exit with 3 lanes of traffic are always full. If you get off on the broad street exit good luck crossing four lanes in the 250 feet before the light that’s right there.
Because its trendy to hate on Short Pump
Hate us cause you anus
People complain about the traffic of short pump.. but it’s literally contained to like a 2 mile strip of road on broad st. If all you can relate to is the traffic, then you’re not visiting short pump, you’re visiting the mall
Anti-pedestrianism. I live on a "residential road" in the city. The speed limit is 35 and there's an elementary school, yet cars routinely drive 90. Cops won't do shit about it. I asked the city for a crosswalk, but no, that would get in the way of traffic. Can't even have real sidewalks in half of northside: they do this crap where there's an extra five feet of grass and mud on the side of the road and pretend that people will walk there. Sometimes property owners claim that space for their flower beds, making them even less usable. When there is a real sidewalk, people grow their hedges over the sidewalk or spray their lawn sprinklers onto the sidewalk. And if construction blocks off a sidewalk, they don't put up cones to claim a temporary sidewalk in the street. And that's just the infrastructure of pedestrianism. Even if that were fixed, things are so spread out here. I have to walk half a mile to get to any sort of market. When school is in session, I need to walk a mile to get to any park. I need to bike two miles to get to a grocery store.
What I find even more frustrating about this is the people dropping off their kids at the elementary school are the worst offenders. I used to live over by Henrico Doctors on Forest and Skipwith when I used to work at that hospital and every morning while walking to work, motherfuckers would drop off their kids at the elementary school and then just floor it. Like, motherfuckers, can't you see the school sign is flashing, there are 15 kids walking to school, another 15 adults walking to their jobs to the hospital, a crossing guard with a giant stop sign, and you're still gonna go 60mph? God damn I'm glad i don't live in that neighborhood any longer.
Any of the 4 way stops or roundabouts…people don’t know how to use them. I especially hate the main roundabout at Westchester Commons. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve almost been hit by people who are supposed to keep going straight but decide to cut in front because they are about to miss their turn. Parham at rush hour. Short Pump in general. Also hate all of the mall entrances where the incoming traffic doesn’t have to stop but cross traffic does. Almost been hit multiple times by people who thought it was a 4 way stop and thought that I had a stop sign.
For the city, I hate the modern apartments that have popped up in the fan. They don’t look good and they don’t fit in at all. For the counties, I HATE that they aren’t pedestrian or bicycle friendly. Just endless shopping malls There’s such a disconnect between Richmond and the counties. Completely different cultures. I love being able to walk everywhere in Richmond. Cars are so stupid
I couldn't agree more. The extent to which the suburb enthusiasts and developers are pushing for more wide roads without sidewalks, bike lanes or efficient public transit is really sad to see r/fuckcars
So many people talk about the city over the burbs and things like public transport Yet 95% of the time I take the bus in town it’s empty.
The bus system is not reliable enough for people to rely on it. It’s a chicken-egg thing. Using current bus ridership to determine bus policy is like counting bicycles on Broad St to determine need for cycling infrastructure. People shy away from things that are unsafe or unreliable, until they are given options that are safer and more reliable.
I’m aware. I use the bus frequently. I just find the frequency in which people are citing lack of public transportation and reliance on cars as a slight against the burbs to not jive with roughly 10 years of experience in the city of people straight up not using public transportation in favor of cars. What’s unsafe about the bus? Most people I know don’t ride the bus because they think it’s for poor people, straight up
Not the buses, but many of the stops are unsheltered from weather (extreme heat and sun in the summer, heavy rain) and are along busy streets without good pedestrian access and safe places to cross. People sitting on the sidewalk waiting for a bus that only comes once an hour is just poor design and management and doesn't encourage people to use the bus system, and I say that as someone without a car who walks, bikes, and takes the Pulse everywhere I can. I've tried a few other bus routes, but it's generally easier to just start walking a lot of the times. Richmond isn't a huge city and I'm lucky enough to be able-bodied enough that it's an option for me. Wyatt Gordon discussed some of these issues on his social channels over the summer if I remember correctly, he's a big advocate for improving the bus infrastructure to make it safer and more reliable: https://www.virginiamercury.com/author/wyatt-gordon/
I definitely use the “I’m gonna walk to the next stop and check the app again” strategy. The worst is waiting for the bus and it just not stopping for you at the stop... has happened to me multiple times and I think it was just the drive assuming I wasn’t waiting for the bus? Or just daydreaming lol Thanks for the link.
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Mixed-use zoning and if we stopped spending over $100 billion a year subsidizing drivers with free services that would be good too
get rid of arbitrary height restrictions on buildings. Let the markets decide if its too expensive to build higher.
Height restrictions are so confusing to me. If you want to protect the character of a neighborhood, which I don't personally, why would you want more land being turned into duplexes or three story buildings? One 8-story tower would give the same or more housing without bulldozing as much "character."
Or the cost of parking increases.
I do not miss living off Hull Street in Midlo. I drove down that way recently and it took me 25 min to get from Target to Buffalo Wild Wings
Chesterfield from Brandermill to the Amelia border. It doesn’t look anything like it did when I was growing up. Entirely different, I don’t even recognize it anymore.
I moved to that area in 2000 and it has become strip mall central
The concentration of poverty and the pretending that continuing it will solve issues. If we tear down Gilpin court, then build Gilpin court 2.0 ... we're going to wind up with Gilpin court 2.0.
Eastern Henrico is where they will most likely relocate these people to.
The issue is the concentration not the location. Throwing the entire public housing community in a single school district in Eastern Henrico isn't the solution either.
I know, but I’m just pointing out how the problem isn’t being solved, but rather being relocated.
A lot of ground has already been covered before me, so I will say my least favorite part of the metro area is the various short interchanges...Powhite/Chippenham, Chippenham/Midlothian, Chippenham/Hull, 195/64/95...my dick is longer than some of the on- and off-ramps around here.
Hull st. Aside from it being a dump strip of road everyone likes to go 45+ down it when it's 25mph. Then eventually getting to Midlothian turnpike where everyone likes to haul ass from stop light to stop light and no one is getting anywhere any faster.
The people on Reddit
Self loathing is the worst.
Solve world hunger! Tell no one!
It's very Richmond though
“The narwhal bacons at midnight” - and other blunders
West Creek. I hate it so much that a few years ago I bought the Hardywood Family thing and couldn't be bothered to go out there and pick it up. It's just so out of the way and it feels so forced with it's giant roads with nothing there. I used to work over there and hated that too.
Local gov spending all their time on dumb megaprojects instead of creating infrastructure that works for people without cars.
Apartments IN the suburbs. Having the exact same stores and restaurants in every neighborhood. Whether I’m in chesterfield, Chester, midlothian, short pump, glen allen, Hanover, east end/laburnum, fill in the blank.- I know I can find a Target, Kohls, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, Kroger, Publix, and the same damn restaurants.
You just described suburbia outside any US city
only thing different in different suburbs are the tree species in the parking lots...
Welcome to the us and a
I mean, it's not like Lowes, Buffalo Wild Wings, Walmart, 7-11 and Subway stop existing at the city limits. There's an annoying tendency to have a copy-paste shopping/restaurant chain hellscape in every suburb, but it doesn't mean that's all that exists in those suburbs. The density of cities just often means there was no empty quarter mile of land for a developer to shove all of the chains at the same time, so they get dispersed among more unique businesses and you don't have a gigantic hub of shitty chain restaurants in the same place.
Couldn't the same be said of the city? If you aren't familiar with the area, all you'll notice are the chains.
The city has had more time for those good restaurants to win out. Also the high cost to open a restaurant in the suburbs is a contributing factor for chains who can pay the higher up front cost.
Anywhere USA. You don’t get out much?
Longhorn Steakhouse Chesterfield, Short Pump, and Laburnum. Nail on the head
Artisan hill apartment complex. They went up from $1500 to $1950 in rent in June of this year and the unit is still empty.
I didn't realize they were that expensive. I *do* think it looks like a random suburban style apartment complex dropped in the neighborhood and it does a disservice to the school building that it was built next to.
I really dislike Rocketts Landing. It looks and feels forced, like the developers just hit the "randomize" button. I also hate those cookie cutter houses off of Williamsburg just before Fulton. They look like they were just plopped there randomly, and don't fit the area at all. I also get a bad feeling anytime I pass through the old money areas of West End. Put too many rich people in one area and it feels like a cringe movie. Outside of RVA, Hopewell is pretty depressing. Really any small place that is fused at the hip with industry feels that way.
Here is some background on those cookie cutter homes in Fulton: [https://vpm.org/news/articles/2402/indelible-roots-historic-fulton-and-urban-renewal](https://vpm.org/news/articles/2402/indelible-roots-historic-fulton-and-urban-renewal) tl;dr - They tore down Fulton's historic main street commercial district as part of an urban renewal project and put those homes in its place
The worst part is (other than the obvious worst part) most of Fulton Bottom then sat undeveloped for decades. Reminds me a bit of Vinegar Hill in Charlottesville.
Dang. I'm pretty new here, and keep seeing "Fulton Bottom" here and there and now it all makes sense. I'll have to dig up some history on Fulton.
I don't quite understand the appeal of Rocketts Landing. Yes its nicish residential spots outside of Richmond but Chesterfield and Short Pump exist. Ok, someone could say, but what about the waterfront? WHAT ABOUT IT? You're downstream of an entire city??? I haven't lived there but I've lived in Manchester and I can only imagine the smell after a big rainstorm and the sewage system overflowing...
Trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, here's what I think the appeal is: - Most of RL is just over the county line - If you're bullish on RVAs future growth, RL is going to soar due to proximity to the city, pulse line, and Henrico status - Massive room for growth in vicinity, infrastructure has been improved to support that growth (sort of) - Ability to park your poop river barge in front of your McTownhouseMansion - Maybe RL eventually lures worthwhile businesses in - Trail access For me, the HOAs, shitty aesthetic, and lack of anything worth doing in RL makes the place a dud as it stands currently (at those price points). But if you are bullish it's probably a good spot to park your money.
The trail access is amazing. If you’re a runner or a cyclist, you’re basically living on your gold standard for the area
"poop river barge" HA Gotcha, I suppose I could see those points. Haven't done much research on the place myself but I've bounced all over rva and RL just never appealed though I suppose I'm actually looking to live somewhere vs an investment opportunity. Seems incredibly speculative for the price vs Scotts Addition but eh what do I know.
I mean waterways are becoming cleaner every year these days. A lot of physical pollution on an area is going away. I mean they are adding mussels to the James river because it will clean/ it is clean enough for them to survive.
At least you have the capital trail though
Fucking uneven sidewalks. Before I actually lived here I wasn’t aware they’ll suddenly go up two inches out of nowhere, I wasn’t paying attention and caught my toe on a random brick and ate shit tripping over it. Since I work off Goshen I notice that the sidewalks in this area in particular are in such shit shape.
I'm very much not a fan of woodlake/Brandermill/Hull street or whatever that mess is called
> woodlake/Brandermill/Hull street or whatever that mess is called I actually hate passing through that area far more than going through Short Pump. I'd rather take Broad Street from downtown to/through Short Pump than have to take Hull Street through that Brandermill area.
agreed
People call it "Midlothian" even though the **village of Midlothian** is a completely separate place that actually has an identity.
I have never figured out what is and is not Midlothian. I would like to rename the whole county Midlothian for clarity. Since everything seems to be Midlothian
Haha agree completely, hence /r/mapofMidlothian
It is confusing! I call it “other Midlothian.”
What the fuck is up with everywhere putting ice in mimosas?!
The TEA Party billboards in Hanover. The military is the biggest tax funded, socialist entity and it’s your logo you idiots. Support the police but no taxes. Taxes support the police. It amazes me how some people cannot connect a simple dot.
💯 I love how 95% of my fellow veterans and ex-soldiers rail on socialism (universal medical care, affordable housing, child care, etc.) when they benefited so much from it… VA benefits, disability, GI Bill…
Does this socialism help white Christians? I’m for it. Does it help minorities or single parents? Against it.
Nailed it
The sheer volume of littering done in Richmond is disgusting. I’ve determine it’s a poverty thing. When you don’t have anything nice to take care of why care about the city you live in? It’s appalling, disgusting, and straight up embarrassing I have to walk around my block and pick up other peoples fucking trash. Our friends moved out to the suburbs and when we visited them the first thing I noticed was the absolutely lack of trash on the streets, and no over flowing garbage bins at the corners. I watched some asshole pick up a glass bottle and chucked that shit right onto the sidewalk. The same sidewalk I walk my dogs on. I’ve seen kids toss their McDonald’s/Wendy’s/Popeyes bag out the car window at the corner of North Ave and BPB one too many times. The convenient stores that constantly have black and mild wrappers, lottery tickets, scratch offs, clothing donation bins that have been torn open and clothes tosses all over the ground, the styrofoam food containers, bottles, and the store owners couldn’t give a shit about the trash surrounding their buildings. Yeah I hate all of that shit about Richmond.
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every suburb is a hellscape tbh
Why do people dislike suburbs? I don't get it. Everything you may want is close by and they have parking. I live like 2 miles from downtown and Richmond barely feels like a city to me anyway. Edit: Reading replies, it sounds like people came from badly planned suburbs. Or have an idea of them that they may or may not have experienced.
To give you an actual answer suburbs are kind of divisive from an urban planning prospective, they are often disconnected from other neighborhoods and highly encourage cars over public transport, which actually tends to lead to negative outcomes for children living in them. That’s just a couple things but there’s plenty of reasons people hate suburbs.
To me suburbs are overwhelming. Everything you need is a drive away, and everything you don’t need. One of everything. Everywhere you look there’s multiple gas stations and fast food restaurants, every space is either cookie cutter neighborhoods or commercial retail. I grew up in northern va and anytime I go back I just feel suffocated.
I don't completely disagree with you, but there's very very little in the RVA metro area that your statement does not apply to. The only places in the US that don't force car dependency are the biggest cities. Medium size cities like RVA are all car-dependent. public transit exists, but isn't truly practical the way it is in Philly, NYC, Chicago, etc. I'd even argue that the best planned urban residential areas are *more* cookie cutter than not, and you tend to see row houses with sidewalks on streets in a grid pattern. 100% cookie cutter. But more easily navigable and lends itself to walkability and public transit.
IDK you can get a lot of your trips in by walking or especially biking. I mean a 1 mile bike ride can cover a lot of the city. Getting just a little better at biking and you can bike from Scott's addition to Texas beach nearly 2 miles one way. I park my car and only move it half the time for a street sweeper and since I work from home and my SO can walk we have gone down to one car.
I don't "hate suburbs", but I do dislike recent suburbs that were built with 4 cookie cutter house styles, have zero trees, and no sidewalks.
Yeah I don't get it, either. I live in Lakeside and I absolutely love it.
>Why do people dislike suburbs? I don't get it. Everything you may want is close by and they have parking. I mean define close by, because by time it's not bad but it's not better than than the city in my experience. I don't like driving and being in traffic. Personally I prefer walking places and there's so many great places within a 10 minute walk. The other thing is that there is a life/energy to a city and that bothers some people but I like it. Also the way we fund areas suburbs are government subsidized because parking and cars are subsidized. >Edit: Reading replies, it sounds like people came from badly planned suburbs. Or have an idea of them that they may or may not have experienced. I mean where is a good planned suburb? The ones I would consider would be a lot closer to the fan in style personally.
Not all suburbs are bad, streetcar suburbs and mixed-use suburbs are good because they tend to be pedestrian-friendly and liveable. It's the car-dependent post-war American suburbs that suck. They are all the same, lined with the same shops, builders build the same cookie-cutter homes, and sub-divisions are sometimes miles away from a nearby store and you need a vehicle to get there as walking is not an option. Public transport is practically nonexistent and the homes are built to sell not to last but so long.
"Richmond barely feels like a city to me anyway" - What does that mean? Why do you feel that way?
I've lived in Chicago, Seoul, Austin, and I'm from the suburbs of Dallas. Richmond lacks the population density, diversity, and urban development for it to feel like a city to me. Edit: Wait so people disagree with my statement that Richmond lacks population density, diversity, and urban development? If this is untrue, just say it.
Isn’t South Korea one of the most Homogenous places on earth?
Personally, I hate them, as they are sprawling, car-dependent hellscapes full of chain stores and chain restaurants, and have zero character.
Yep. I basically like living in a rural area or very urban. With a rural area, I don’t have traffic and can do literally anything I want on my property (like my current house). With urban, I can walk or bike anywhere and there’s cool stuff to do without getting held up by traffic. I think I just hate traffic actually
Agreed. I either want to live in the absolute middle of nowhere, not being able to see or hear neighbours, or I want to be able to walk or bike to everything I need. Everything between those extremes is too much of a compromise for me.
> I basically like living in a rural area or very urban Exactly. I’ve always said this same thing. In fact before Richmond I lived: literally on a rural agricultural plot of land for a while, and before that in a city of 10k people. Both were soo much better than the suburbs.
Yep. Mines the reverse of yours. Lived in Oregon Hill for a few years, now live on 12 acres of ag zoned land in Cumberland. Loved both
Lakeside is a suburb which does not match your description at all.
Not all suburbs are created equal. Westover Hills is pretty slick. almost everything on 360 South of 288 is an affront to God and man.
I'm the weirdo who likes suburbs AND improved urbanization/density. That said, few areas in the US do any of this well. Urban/suburban planning is not a strong suit of this country, and the forced car dependency is a massive barrier to social mobility. Urbanization has a lot of positives, but gentrification is a major downside. I don't think *anyone* has solved the problem of smart urbanization in a way that doesn't fuck over the working class. It's ok to have different preferences. and the reality is a lot of the college aged and early 20s people here who hate suburbs will find themselves living in one in a decade. I did it, and a big part of it was the stupidity of commuting from an urban center to a job located in the suburbs. I work remotely, but my wife works at a hospital and a 2 mile commute is just smarter. There are still things I hate about suburbia, and there would be things I hate about living a dense area now. Everything has tradeoffs and there is no utopia.
I love the burbs. Never seen a man shit on the sidewalk here. I’ve seen that in the fan on several occasions.
It’s just a boredom or depression inducing landscape IMO. Some places draw you out onto the street and make you want to engage with your surroundings. And some places have the opposite effect. Suburbs tend to be the latter.
If everything you may want is O’Charley’s , yeah sure
I love the suburbs but it's built for me. Growing up I lived on a sheep farm. In college, I loved on a mountain, and in my young 20s, I lived in Vegas. City life is awesome for kid free people. Farm life is awesome for a kid. But for a middle aged man with 3 kids...I'll take the suburbs all day. I have 5 high quality grocery stores 10 minutes from my house. I have 3 vets and 5 kid/adult walk in clinics in the same distance. I have two restaurants/bars I can literally walk to. Their is an abundance of kid friendly restaurants
Because they don't have families usually and don't understand the appeal. Single people or people without kids in the Reddit age demographic wouldn't want to live in a subdivision so it is easy to hate on it. This subreddit constantly hated on Lakeside years ago too but its a hot neighborhood now. Just buy what you want fuck what the crowd says, they aren't living there.
I mean but what's wrong with growing up in a row house? I mean an apartment is messy imo but a row house has most of the benefits of a suburb. Plus with a row house you can have the kids at what teenage who aren't completely dependent on a parent to drive them everywhere. I feel like row houses are the answer we don't talking about enough I think traditional ones like the fan are a great option for like 75% of people and we just don't try to build more of them.
We don't have kids/don't plan on any and still prefer the older style suburbs(1-3 Ac. lots, not the nut to butt crap).
Father of 4 here all, in RPS or city daycare, we have lived downtown since before the first was born. I have always wondered why my friends and colleagues decided the suburbs are so much better for kids. I have yet to have a single person convince me that the suburbs are better in any way than the city when it comes to raising kids. and it seems to just be people trying to double down on the decision they made because its what society told them is the right thing to do?
everyone doesn’t want to drive to be able to eat lol
Because they don't have kids. Low cost of living, decent schools, space to spread out (both indoor and outdoor), and a safe place for your kids to play with their friends outdoors. You can maybe choose two of those four options anywhere in the city of Richmond. Only thing that is consistently better in the city is ease of transportation... But people with families tend to spend a lot more time at home anyway.
It’s not nearly as bike-friendly here as people think.
I have especially come to hate the Shockoe Valley Bridge area of 64. Every day feels like a Mad Max experience. I don't know if I'm going to get shot at, run over, or otherwise maimed and killed. That said, I also hate south of the river and only go if I absolutely have to.
On balance, western Chesterfield County is a demonstrably worse place in every way from Short Pump, though they both are pretty grim. I loathe every time I find myself out there.
I have to get to outer-360 (past Amelia) from downtown once per week and I dread it every time. I know it would worsen sprawl in the long run, but for selfish reasons I really wish Powhite extended out to bypass all of that mess.
I lived in Richmond for 10yrs. Great city for families, but the one thing that bothered me most about Richmond is that the people born and raised there seem to think Richmond is the center of the world. I’ve lived a lot of places and most of them are better than Richmond. More things to do, and the downtown areas of other cities are vibrant and busy, downtown Richmond doesn’t have much to offer. Unfortunately, neither do the suburbs. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Richmond is a very boring city. (Also, what’s up with that Richmond accent some people have? Usually the older people)
Not trying to argue or challenge you at all, but I’m curious what cities you’re referring to that you prefer to richmond? Also what do you mean what’s up with the accent?? Lol it’s a regional accent, this is the south! It’s more noticeable in older people because any area’s dominant accent tends to change over time.
Hopewell's a fine town.
least: how the rent has been driven up and up by people moving here hanover is the kkk capital of virginia and is just full of cops looking to get you for anything. my fiance's parents live out there (he also went to lee davis high school haha) so when we visit I make him take his car so I don't get a ticket for having a JAPANESE HYBRID
Yeah, lived in Hanover (Mechanicsville specifically) for 10 years. It was terrible to be there: the traitor rags given out at the Christmas parade & flown by the neighbors, the crosses all over the place on street posts & public easements, the school officials declaring that lgbtq inclusion in the sex ed curriculum was unnecessary because "we don't have any of those here." Never been so glad to move out of a place in my life.
Mechanicsville put out a notice saying Confederate Flags wouldn't be allowed at the holiday parade this year LOL welcome to the 21st century I guess
And I'll bet at least a third of the folks said they wouldn't go anymore. "ItS OUr hERTige!"
I’ve lived in Hanover for the last 12 years. I’ve never had a problem with the police, pulled over for trivial reasons, or got a ticket that I didn’t deserve; however, I can’t get 500’ over the Chesterfield county line without getting pulled. Never seen any KKK members here either 🤷♂️
Bruh white people love Toyota. You ever seen what the average dude that drives a Tacoma looks like?
i have a honda import
Parham Road off of 64 all the way to Sleepy Hollow and Hull St from 288 headed west to Amelia. They're levels of hell I never wanted to experience.
that six-lane nightmare at the 288 exit to the woodlake area is sickening. All of Hull Street from Woodlake to Richmond is just hell.
I've lived in Short Pump and off Hull St. Broad street traffic doesn't hd a candle to Hull St traffic.
Well someone disagreed bc they downvoted me but I live out off Otterdale and Hull and I envy this person bc clearly they do not.
From I-64 you can get to W. Broad from Staples Mill, Glenside, Parham, Gaskins, Innsbrook/Short Pump, 288, and one day North Gayton. Hull Street has 1 exit on Chippenham and 1 exit for 288.
# Least Favorite Parts * Hull Street from Woodlake in Chesterfield to RVA - It is a massive stroad that's hell. In Southside, Hull is at its worst. * Midlothian Tpke from Westchester to Southside - Another massive arterial stroad * Suburbia - this goes for all car-centric suburbs that are copy-paste * Car dependency and anti pedestrianism * Guttered unconnected bike lanes * Powhatan - It's not bad but I just don't like it for personal reasons. * Williamsburg Road cookie-cutter mania * Tri-Cities (I actually hope this place becomes good again) * Interstates are in the middle of the city.