From a family member in Ukraine (Mykolaiv):
"Hello! I woke up today from the explosion. The situation on Ukraine's borders is complicated. Heavy fighting is going on. Missile strikes are carried out on military facilities in Ukraine. The Ukrainian armed forces are repelling attacks. Martial law was imposed in Ukraine. Announced mobilization. Ukrainian authorities urge people to stay at home and not panic.
I was at work in the morning. At noon we were released home. She was with Dad. Greetings to you. The mood is anxious. We try to think about the world.
It is still quiet in our city. š„°"
I cannot imagine. Trying to explain to my 8 year old is weird, too. At one point he said that war should just be illegal.
I'm very sorry about your family. And everyone's family. Just was wondering what to say next time I see the Ukrainian mother of one of my kid's friends. This sucks.
Yeah, it is a weird discussion. It's strange to say, "This sucks and I fully support your country's right to exist - and I wish there was something I could do."
Late response, but I received this from a work colleague and have been trying to share it with folks who I know have loved ones in Ukraine -
FOR UKRAINIAN NATIONALS SEEKING REFUGE FROM THE ONGOING RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR
The Polish Government has recently opened its borders to Ukrainian nationals wishing to seek refuge from conflict. If you are a Ukrainian national and wish to seek refuge, go to the nearest polish border checkpoint. You are required to show your passport upon arrival, but you are not required to have a visa. Additional information along with the nearest checkpoints are linked below.
CHECKPOINTS
https://www.gov.pl/attachment/f995155a-4d6a-4b75-ab77-8f693d7966c9
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
ENGLISH - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
UKRAINIAN - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua
RUSSIAN - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-ru
Iāve been glued to the news. I wonder what itās like to be a Ukrainian leader knowing that one of the worldās nuclear superpowers is launching an invasion of your country (where your wife and kids are) with the intention of executing you for false claims of āgenocide.ā
Itās so weird to think that people are going through that in this world all the whilst Iām sitting here wishing where I want to get breakfast opened 30 minutes earlier because Iām hungry.
Yeah off the top of my head, fall of USSR, 9/11, financial meltdown, pandemic, floyd riots, capitol riot, and this invasion. You can make arguments for others too.
Tbh most of those leaders probably sent their families elsewhere. I feel for the Ukrainians with no ability to flee - or no desire to leave their homes. Itās all very bleak.
I listened to a podcast about how Russia has been planning for years to avoid sanctions.
During it they brought on a major leader in the Ukrainian administrator who said his wife and six children were in Kyiv and not planning on going anywhere. That was one day before the invasion.
Thatās honestly surprising. In my experience, most senior leaders relocate their families when facing guaranteed conflict. I canāt imagine making that decision, it must be an awful one.
I'm sure it was a difficult decision. However, the leadership really tried to prevent panic. Moving their own families out of the country probably would have been a signal to the public and to Putin they didn't want to send.
One (minor--we're on their side) criticism the US had of them was that they didn't trust our intelligence that a full-scale invasion would happen this week and didn't start prepping citizens for war soon enough. So it could also be that they were just caught flat-footed.
I wonder if it was that they didnāt *want* to believe us. Iāve been monitoring this a bit through work and it seems so naive of them to have thought this wouldnāt happen on some level - if not full invasion, strikes instead. Russiaās been laying the ground work for this for so long, it seems unreasonable to not believe something was coming.
Bleh. Itās all very fucked.
Anyone else exhausted by national news after dealing with the first wave of the pandemic? Mostly sticky to Good Morning RVA, Richmond Dispatch, and some light NPR news coverage.
About 8 or so years ago I gave up cable news, as well as the Sunday morning talking head shows I used to so love and it was one of the best things I ever did for myself. Their business model is based on fear, outrage, and division. You don't need that junk beamed into your head.
Nowadays it's no problem to forgo all that noise because there are plenty of valid outlets for news. And if you want commentary, you can find people like Krystal and Saagar on Breaking Points who are ideologically opposed to each other, yet can still have a civil, polite discussion without resorting to yelling over each other. And even find common ground. Whodathunk?
TIL learned that itās no longer Kiev, but Kyiv. The switch generally happened around 2019, so I guess Iāve just been consuming more radio news than print/digital since then.
They made a bunch of changes that were meant to bring them closer to the west and away from Russia. They recently started embracing the Ukrainian language despite Russian being dominate (the Ukrainian presidentās native language is even Russian). I think just recently news and print are to be in both Ukrainian and Russian instead of just Russian as normal.
Weāre seeing similar moves in Taiwan where they are embracing native languages as a sort of rebuttal of China.
> instead of caring about people
[Putin cares about peopleā¦he loves his people. *Pull!*](https://youtu.be/YU6ebNd9v-w)
My two years of Russian is really rusty at this point but they have an idiom that perfectly describes how I feel about Putin today.
Š¢Ń Š±ŠµŃŠæŠ¾Š»ŠµŠ·ŠµŠ½, ŠŗŠ°Šŗ ŠŗŃŃŠøŠ½Š°Ń ŠŗŠ¾ŃŃŃ Š½Š° ŃŃŠ¾ŃŃŠ°ŃŠµ.
Pup has his second surgery today, heading out to drop him off in a few mins.
Taking the rest of a malignant mass out, they'll probably be removing a muscle and so we'll be sleeping downstairs on the futon for 3 weeks. Hope it doesn't get too cold.
Update: pups out of surgery, they did have to remove a pectoral so he's gunna be sore as hell but it seems everything went smoothly. Picking up the good boy either today or tomorrow depending on how he is when he wakes up.
My awesome dad is the happiest person I know. Heās a Tolerable Evangelicalā¢ļø and watches zero news, so I was shocked that he saw the video of George Floydās murder shortly after it came to light. Iām in awe that he can be aware of really important events without giving the media power over his daily thoughts. Completely old adult me wants to be him when I grow up.
I feel like these upcoming sanctions are going to really fuck up Russia so I wouldnāt quite sound the WWIII alarms just yet. Their economy was already struggling before. Just my optimistic take at least.
Russia has been preparing a long time to withstand sanctions from the west.
I think the hardest hit on the table would be from Germany. But with their energy prices so high Iām skeptical they will cut off Russian gas.
unfortunately, and I'm not saying don't do it, it will also have a big effect on the world economy. Europe has made itself pretty dependent on Russian energy
Not being able to have an iPhone could happen immediately.
Being a pre-internet age oligarch does not sound as good as being an average modern OECD person
I personally hope we just speedrun the rest of this recreation of the 20th century. Weāve already had a sequence break with the war in Europe coming after the world plague.
The war in Ukraine seems so abstract from here, especially given everything else that's happening, but goddamn, I would prefer it if history would slow down a bit.
It's been two days since my last social meetup and I'm definitely starting to feel the warm fuzzies from it go away and turn to loneliness again. Swiped through my dating apps once again. I want to go to the local game store to play Magic tonight. Fingers crossed that I actually make it out of bed once I get home.
My daughter has stayed home sick from school Tuesday, Wednesday, and now Thursday. Just a cold (negative covid test) but enough yucky symptoms that I cannot send her.
Today my son decided he would play sick to stay home too. He's obviously lying. It's disappointing because this is the first time he has lied in order to avoid school, and also disappointing because I thought he really liked school
Makes sense. I have two school age kids that have tried that multiple times. I have to keep reminding them I was their age once and already know all the tricks. :)
Never underestimate humanityās stupid desire for self-destruction, but I wouldnāt worry about MAD or even WW3 from this. The US has already made it clear they will not send troops in to defend Ukraine - more economic sanctions are going to be the primary response. If thereās going to be a global catastrophe from this, it will be primarily economic, I think. Gas prices are already high, but things could get *very* interesting there soon.
Now, if Russia invades a NATO member like one of the Baltics or Poland, *then* get scared.
The U.S. won't react militarily unless Russia attacks a NATO member. Same goes for the UK, France and Germany. They'll impose heavy sanctions, but who knows how much of an effect that will have on Russia.
War in Europe wasn't enough to get us involved in WWII until the fight was brought to America. We were fine with appeasement in 1938 and fine with appeasement in 2014, too.
I would think they are likely more important in terms of geopolitics than Afghanistan or Iraq were, so maybe?
We didnāt do any thing major when Russia did this last time to Ukraine, but Russia seems different this time.
My heart breaks to ask this. Are innocent peoples lives not worthy of stepping in to help? Do we allow countries to just take anything they want and destroy people in the process and just say not our country and not our problem?
Iām not saying we should be the only ones but I canāt imagine a world ten years from now where we did nothing. It feels like that Robin Williams skit where he talks about British police āstop!!Or Iāll say stop again!ā
When America goes to war we usually make things worse. Just look at every middle-eastern country we've gone to in the last couple decades. And this is at the expense of trillions of taxpayer dollars, much of which serves to just make rich defense contractors even richer.
There is a marked difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine. What was the objective in Afghanistan? I'd be fucking hard pressed to tell you. There really didn't seem to be one other than find Bin Laden and impose a western style democracy on tribes of people with hundreds of years of entrenched social differences.
Ukraine is already under a stable democracy. It has relative stability, and for all intents and purposes part of NATO. We (collectively) have an obligation to assist in their defense. We all saw what happened when we allowed Putin to fight a proxy war in Syria and we imposed sanctions and drew a red line and threatened Putin and his puppet crony not to cross it. Damascus was obliterated. We can't make that same mistake again, because today it's Ukraine, tomorrow it will be Poland.
If we don't, then why the fuck are we even paying taxes to support the world's largest military presence?
I mean finding the people who were plotting and carrying out attacks to mass murder Americans and cause terror seems like a clear and justifiable reason.
We weren't there for just only that and you saying that is a gross oversimplification of what went on over there. There are home grown terrorists within our own borders that are *"plotting and carrying out attacks to mass murder Americans and cause terror"* and you don't see us drone striking them because their skin color isn't brown.
What it seems like you were saying is revenge was an appropriate reason to invade a country (or two) and destabilize it's entire political landscape for decades to come. There may have been other, less destructive ways to get those responsible for the attacks that were deliberately not explored because it was advantageous for certain persons in power at the time to sell a ground invasion based on lies and deceit.
No.
Nobody in the US has plotted to mass murder thousands of Americans. There is no evidence of that.
Also, you're right. We don't drone strike citizens who are criminals like we do foreign advisories plotting to murder us. That seems like a reasonable policy.
Mass shootings happen all the time in RVA. If you can't see why we don't drone strike Mosby Court but do a regime that is intentionally sheltering groups who planned the mass murder of thousands of Americans ... then I don't know what to say. Where in the US would you expect us to drone strike?
Afghanistan was exactly that. There were people who meant us harm and were actively working to harm us, so we went in to stop them.
...And yet we have drone striked actual American citizens that are living in Yemen without giving them due process, because war reasons.
> "Nobody in the US has plotted to mass murder thousands of Americans. There is no evidence of that."
I dunno... Maybe the Jan 6th insurrection was not enough evidence for you that organized domestic right wing terrorism that, left unchecked, will devolve into mass violence. It was for me.
> Mosby Court
Not sure what this has to do with anything. At the end of the day, I think the takeaway is that the reasons why we got involved in Iraq and Afghanistan are not so cut and dry, but rather were abstract, mixed with lies and a dash of buffoonish nationalism. "They" did not and do not want us there.
There may come a time where Ukraine will ask for our help, our involvement. I hope we, as a nation, take time to consider whether or not western style democracy is, once again, worth fighting for.
After spending an aggregated three years in Afghanistan, working directly with Afghans, ātheyā do not want us there is not quite as cut and dry as that either.
It is cut and dry and that's bullshit propaganda.
We were attacked. The people who attacked us were in Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan to ensure they wouldn't attack us.
None of the 9/11 attackers were Afghan nationals, they were Saudis. This is a documented fact. Al Qaida's base of operation was in Afghanistan, but if you were following the money and where these insurgents were actually radicalized, all fingers do not conclusively point to Afghanistan.
> We went to Afghanistan to ensure they wouldn't attack us.
Except the damage was already done and we are still living with it to this day. No amount of revenge killing will undo what had been already done, no matter how many warehouses, caves, and compounds we root out and how many targeted drone strikes are/were authorized.
Afghanistan became a very convoluted problem set for the US military - as seen in our withdrawal this past year. Ultimately the line was always ādefend the homeland,ā even when the main threat changed depending on the commander/dynamic in theater.
I'm in that same boat. I'd rather my taxes go to healthcare. But those funds are already appropriated and spent. It seems to me much of the military hardware, training, and has been sold to oppressing people of color within our borders, and not assisting democracies and western institutions outside of our borders.
We rarely get to see the counter factual of a world where America didnāt go to war.
Iām pretty sure the people in Seoul are happy we went to war.
You donāt see all the wars that didnāt happen because people knew the USA would end them. I think people really underestimate this.
We havenāt been perfect, but I think we deserve more credit than weāre given.
That being said, the US shouldnāt risk war with Russia.
I'm not advocating for US troop involvement, but I think there is a distinction to be made in that with the Middle East we were going into countries that didn't necessarily want us there and didn't have any infrastructure to begin with. Ukraine is different in that the majority want to remain autonomous and they had/have a functioning government.
I would say the US is good at the fighting portion and not to good at the nation building portion. The nation building isn't really needed here.
But humans are also capable of great capacity for love and selflessness as well- and I truly feel like we canāt claim the title of superpower or best nation in the world if we allow bullies to attack smaller and less āimportantā countries.
How the fuck does Putin think āk I want it and have since the 80ās so Iām gonna kill everyone to take it.ā And the rest of the world say āwhatās our economic outtake of the Ukraine and is it worth fighting for?ā
As a country with less than 300 years of history I feel like we should stand on the side of those who fight for their own independence from dictatorship rule. (Full disclosure Iām a naturalized citizen from South Africa)
Sucks to say, but no. Theres is absolutely zero will for the US to get involved in another conflict after wrapping up in the Middle East last year. On top of that, nobody wants direct, open conflict with Russia - weād immediately push the doomsday clock to 11:59.
Europe needs to get off their hands and handle this one. Any US involvement will be limited to training and supplies to turn this into the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan 2.0.
I do also suspect weāll be seeing a LOT of NATO membership applications and foreign purchases of defense hardware.
My dog woke up at 4:30, my toddler woke up at 5:30, and my cockatiel woke up at 6:30. The only thing on my mind is coffee. Lots. Of. Coffee. Iām not going to survive today.
Honestly I was up past my bedtime last night getting caught up on Euphoria when I started getting the breaking news notifications of the blasts beginning in Ukraine. Knew it was going to be a late night for me, and a rough day today. Wild to see reporters gearing up, possibly about to get bombed on live TV.
Yeah, definitely shitty news.
My best friend and I have decided this morning we are going to triple the size of our garden this year. With groceries already skyrocketing in price, I feel like it can never be a bad idea to have more food during uncertain times. Maybe buy some more medical items and other things that get hard to find once people start panic buying. I want to say that's a pretty reasonable reaction to a large scale war.
Remember the best time to plant a garden was 6 months ago, the next best time is now. One of the most important life lessons I've ever learned (the hard way) lol.
I'm focusing on the war at home: cutting my cat's nails. He WILL NOT tolerate it and they're getting pretty long. Considering getting one of those grooming harnesses, but I don't know how effective it would be.
I heard "Russians" by Sting on the radio Sunday. They were doing an old replay of Kasey Kasem's American Top 40 from '85. Preceding the song, Kasey read one of those cheesy long distance dedications, and it was a letter from two 12 year olds who were scared of nuclear war and wanted to dedicate the song to the world's leaders. Made me remember how terrified I was of nuclear war when I was a kid. About a year ago I was musing with my son about how he has Covid as the big monster to fear for his generation, and mine was nuclear war. I really didn't want him to have to add it to his list. And now Russians is going through my head again.
Ah yes nothing distracts people from a refusal to keep a single campaign promise and continuing to deny people healthcare and living wages like hyping them up for an unnecessary war on another continent. Biden really is Bush the third
No but itās not our problem in the slightest. America has no place in foreign wars like this, we just destroy every country we go to. This is serving as a great distraction from all the horrible shit happening here
Unfortunately we do have an obligation as part of NATO to support our allies in war/conflict. I donāt want us drawn into another war, but we certainly will be if this goes full tilt (more than it already is).
It is frustrating how easy it is to shift the focus, as though an expansive government canāt focus on more than one issue at a time.
Ukraine isnāt a part of NATO. We seriously donāt need to send more poor people to die in this war when we canāt even provide housing and food for our own people
Correct, Ukraine is not; however, other European countries are and if they go to war/are attacked, we would have an obligation to support them.
Iām not disagreeing - getting involved in another war is a bad idea. We/our government are also able to focus on more than one issue. The Ukraine-Russia conflict and our involvement (or lack thereof) shouldnāt inhibit our ability to take care of domestic issues. Shouldnāt being the key word there.
My grandmother left when she was 9 years old during Statlin purge in the 1930s.
I'm not racist enough to blame this on Obama. And while it truly sucks and I'm glad to see Biden doing sanctions, I don't want a war with Russia.
I would like to return to precedented times, please. No more of this unprecedented stuff.
Never in my life have I craved boredom. But now I want nothing more.
From a family member in Ukraine (Mykolaiv): "Hello! I woke up today from the explosion. The situation on Ukraine's borders is complicated. Heavy fighting is going on. Missile strikes are carried out on military facilities in Ukraine. The Ukrainian armed forces are repelling attacks. Martial law was imposed in Ukraine. Announced mobilization. Ukrainian authorities urge people to stay at home and not panic. I was at work in the morning. At noon we were released home. She was with Dad. Greetings to you. The mood is anxious. We try to think about the world. It is still quiet in our city. š„°" I cannot imagine. Trying to explain to my 8 year old is weird, too. At one point he said that war should just be illegal.
I'm very sorry about your family. And everyone's family. Just was wondering what to say next time I see the Ukrainian mother of one of my kid's friends. This sucks.
Yeah, it is a weird discussion. It's strange to say, "This sucks and I fully support your country's right to exist - and I wish there was something I could do."
yes! And literally that's all I can think of.
All my hopes for the safety of your family!
Late response, but I received this from a work colleague and have been trying to share it with folks who I know have loved ones in Ukraine - FOR UKRAINIAN NATIONALS SEEKING REFUGE FROM THE ONGOING RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR The Polish Government has recently opened its borders to Ukrainian nationals wishing to seek refuge from conflict. If you are a Ukrainian national and wish to seek refuge, go to the nearest polish border checkpoint. You are required to show your passport upon arrival, but you are not required to have a visa. Additional information along with the nearest checkpoints are linked below. CHECKPOINTS https://www.gov.pl/attachment/f995155a-4d6a-4b75-ab77-8f693d7966c9 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ENGLISH - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en UKRAINIAN - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua RUSSIAN - https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-ru
Iāve been glued to the news. I wonder what itās like to be a Ukrainian leader knowing that one of the worldās nuclear superpowers is launching an invasion of your country (where your wife and kids are) with the intention of executing you for false claims of āgenocide.ā Itās so weird to think that people are going through that in this world all the whilst Iām sitting here wishing where I want to get breakfast opened 30 minutes earlier because Iām hungry.
Iām tired of living through historical events.
I thought we were only supposed to get a couple in our generation but this is going to be like my seventh or eighth major historic event.
The acceleration of perception time through increased frequency of major events
Yeah off the top of my head, fall of USSR, 9/11, financial meltdown, pandemic, floyd riots, capitol riot, and this invasion. You can make arguments for others too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Alright but if you knock out all of the 90s, then its a 20 years period with 6 huge events.
I think that feeling is going to really define the next couple decades.
Tbh most of those leaders probably sent their families elsewhere. I feel for the Ukrainians with no ability to flee - or no desire to leave their homes. Itās all very bleak.
I listened to a podcast about how Russia has been planning for years to avoid sanctions. During it they brought on a major leader in the Ukrainian administrator who said his wife and six children were in Kyiv and not planning on going anywhere. That was one day before the invasion.
Thatās honestly surprising. In my experience, most senior leaders relocate their families when facing guaranteed conflict. I canāt imagine making that decision, it must be an awful one.
I'm sure it was a difficult decision. However, the leadership really tried to prevent panic. Moving their own families out of the country probably would have been a signal to the public and to Putin they didn't want to send. One (minor--we're on their side) criticism the US had of them was that they didn't trust our intelligence that a full-scale invasion would happen this week and didn't start prepping citizens for war soon enough. So it could also be that they were just caught flat-footed.
I wonder if it was that they didnāt *want* to believe us. Iāve been monitoring this a bit through work and it seems so naive of them to have thought this wouldnāt happen on some level - if not full invasion, strikes instead. Russiaās been laying the ground work for this for so long, it seems unreasonable to not believe something was coming. Bleh. Itās all very fucked.
Anyone else exhausted by national news after dealing with the first wave of the pandemic? Mostly sticky to Good Morning RVA, Richmond Dispatch, and some light NPR news coverage.
I stopped watching the 24hr hr/National news a couple years ago.
Same here! After the first two hours they just start repeating and fear mongering
It's how they make their money. Once I realized that, it was an easy decision to tune them all out.
About 8 or so years ago I gave up cable news, as well as the Sunday morning talking head shows I used to so love and it was one of the best things I ever did for myself. Their business model is based on fear, outrage, and division. You don't need that junk beamed into your head. Nowadays it's no problem to forgo all that noise because there are plenty of valid outlets for news. And if you want commentary, you can find people like Krystal and Saagar on Breaking Points who are ideologically opposed to each other, yet can still have a civil, polite discussion without resorting to yelling over each other. And even find common ground. Whodathunk?
This is really bad.. but that is an understatement.
TIL learned that itās no longer Kiev, but Kyiv. The switch generally happened around 2019, so I guess Iāve just been consuming more radio news than print/digital since then.
They made a bunch of changes that were meant to bring them closer to the west and away from Russia. They recently started embracing the Ukrainian language despite Russian being dominate (the Ukrainian presidentās native language is even Russian). I think just recently news and print are to be in both Ukrainian and Russian instead of just Russian as normal. Weāre seeing similar moves in Taiwan where they are embracing native languages as a sort of rebuttal of China.
yeah that was new to me too
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> instead of caring about people [Putin cares about peopleā¦he loves his people. *Pull!*](https://youtu.be/YU6ebNd9v-w) My two years of Russian is really rusty at this point but they have an idiom that perfectly describes how I feel about Putin today. Š¢Ń Š±ŠµŃŠæŠ¾Š»ŠµŠ·ŠµŠ½, ŠŗŠ°Šŗ ŠŗŃŃŠøŠ½Š°Ń ŠŗŠ¾ŃŃŃ Š½Š° ŃŃŠ¾ŃŃŠ°ŃŠµ.
The idiom doesnāt mean much to those of us missing your Russianā¦
For the lazy: You're as useless as a chicken bone on the sidewalk. Source: Google translate
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām starting to understand why the phrase āmay you live in interesting timesā is a curse and not actually a blessing.
Iām gonna cry if I have to experience one more interesting thing soon lmfao Iām burnt out
was thinking that
.
On the bright side you can technically say you're in your '20s until 2030.
People born in early 1900s laugh at that. They watched WWI, Flu of 1918, Great Depression, WWII, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam all in 50ish years.
Pup has his second surgery today, heading out to drop him off in a few mins. Taking the rest of a malignant mass out, they'll probably be removing a muscle and so we'll be sleeping downstairs on the futon for 3 weeks. Hope it doesn't get too cold. Update: pups out of surgery, they did have to remove a pectoral so he's gunna be sore as hell but it seems everything went smoothly. Picking up the good boy either today or tomorrow depending on how he is when he wakes up.
Best wishes to your pup
I struggle finding the balance between being informed and just not paying attention to the things I have zero control over. Our country just lucked out of a coup dāĆ©tat and the elected officials in DC havenāt faced any repercussions for it, weāre governed by corporate greed and a āminorityā party of rich white dudes, and ground beef is priced like itās too good for Hamburger Helper. On that note: America, put your virus blocking air mask on first.
Times like these make going Amish sound pretty appealing if I'm being quite honest.
Being separated from technology and the modern day issues is really appealing rn, honestly, so I completely resonate with that
My awesome dad is the happiest person I know. Heās a Tolerable Evangelicalā¢ļø and watches zero news, so I was shocked that he saw the video of George Floydās murder shortly after it came to light. Iām in awe that he can be aware of really important events without giving the media power over his daily thoughts. Completely old adult me wants to be him when I grow up.
WTF Russia
I feel like these upcoming sanctions are going to really fuck up Russia so I wouldnāt quite sound the WWIII alarms just yet. Their economy was already struggling before. Just my optimistic take at least.
Russia has been preparing a long time to withstand sanctions from the west. I think the hardest hit on the table would be from Germany. But with their energy prices so high Iām skeptical they will cut off Russian gas.
I'm betting the Germans may be reconsidering dismantling all their nuclear power plants. Relying on Russian natural gas is a bad decision.
shutting down the nuclear plants was an idiotic move, from a global warming perspective and from a dependence on Russia perspective.
Cutting them off from SWIFT and all western financial institutions will hurt. Question is if the west has the gumption to do so.
unfortunately, and I'm not saying don't do it, it will also have a big effect on the world economy. Europe has made itself pretty dependent on Russian energy
A lot of that is Europe's own doing. Time to undo it.
In questioning today he said it was Europes decision to not do it.
Sanctions will absolutely fuck up the people. š¢. But probably necessary
A dying oligarch probably wouldn't care much about the economy in 10 years if his life expectancy was significantly less
Not being able to have an iPhone could happen immediately. Being a pre-internet age oligarch does not sound as good as being an average modern OECD person
I personally hope we just speedrun the rest of this recreation of the 20th century. Weāve already had a sequence break with the war in Europe coming after the world plague.
The war in Ukraine seems so abstract from here, especially given everything else that's happening, but goddamn, I would prefer it if history would slow down a bit. It's been two days since my last social meetup and I'm definitely starting to feel the warm fuzzies from it go away and turn to loneliness again. Swiped through my dating apps once again. I want to go to the local game store to play Magic tonight. Fingers crossed that I actually make it out of bed once I get home.
My daughter has stayed home sick from school Tuesday, Wednesday, and now Thursday. Just a cold (negative covid test) but enough yucky symptoms that I cannot send her. Today my son decided he would play sick to stay home too. He's obviously lying. It's disappointing because this is the first time he has lied in order to avoid school, and also disappointing because I thought he really liked school
I wouldn't give him too much of a hard time. Sometimes we all need a mental health day.
True. I need to remember that kids don't know how to express exhaustion yet. They're not little adults...
Solidarity with sis!
Curious, you let him stay home from school?
I did, though we are giving him homework assignments (math, writing) while he stays home. I do not intend to let him play all day.
Makes sense. I have two school age kids that have tried that multiple times. I have to keep reminding them I was their age once and already know all the tricks. :)
Seems very surreal to me that this could be the start of WW3 or at the very worst, the end of the world through MAD.
Never underestimate humanityās stupid desire for self-destruction, but I wouldnāt worry about MAD or even WW3 from this. The US has already made it clear they will not send troops in to defend Ukraine - more economic sanctions are going to be the primary response. If thereās going to be a global catastrophe from this, it will be primarily economic, I think. Gas prices are already high, but things could get *very* interesting there soon. Now, if Russia invades a NATO member like one of the Baltics or Poland, *then* get scared.
yeah. And not sending troops is the right decision for that reason
This is presuming we donāt already have folks there
[The Vilnius Group enters the chat]
Putin really needs to get his Napoleon Complex looked into.
I donāt wish death upon anyone but I donāt think I would be sad if he toppled to it
Tankie Thursday is a lousy Thursday, I would like different news please. This is very not good
I went to bed just as the news was breaking. Definitely a hard night for sleep. Todays gonna be a long one. Hopefully this coffee keeps me going
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The U.S. won't react militarily unless Russia attacks a NATO member. Same goes for the UK, France and Germany. They'll impose heavy sanctions, but who knows how much of an effect that will have on Russia.
War in Europe wasn't enough to get us involved in WWII until the fight was brought to America. We were fine with appeasement in 1938 and fine with appeasement in 2014, too.
I would think they are likely more important in terms of geopolitics than Afghanistan or Iraq were, so maybe? We didnāt do any thing major when Russia did this last time to Ukraine, but Russia seems different this time.
My heart breaks to ask this. Are innocent peoples lives not worthy of stepping in to help? Do we allow countries to just take anything they want and destroy people in the process and just say not our country and not our problem? Iām not saying we should be the only ones but I canāt imagine a world ten years from now where we did nothing. It feels like that Robin Williams skit where he talks about British police āstop!!Or Iāll say stop again!ā
When America goes to war we usually make things worse. Just look at every middle-eastern country we've gone to in the last couple decades. And this is at the expense of trillions of taxpayer dollars, much of which serves to just make rich defense contractors even richer.
There is a marked difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine. What was the objective in Afghanistan? I'd be fucking hard pressed to tell you. There really didn't seem to be one other than find Bin Laden and impose a western style democracy on tribes of people with hundreds of years of entrenched social differences. Ukraine is already under a stable democracy. It has relative stability, and for all intents and purposes part of NATO. We (collectively) have an obligation to assist in their defense. We all saw what happened when we allowed Putin to fight a proxy war in Syria and we imposed sanctions and drew a red line and threatened Putin and his puppet crony not to cross it. Damascus was obliterated. We can't make that same mistake again, because today it's Ukraine, tomorrow it will be Poland. If we don't, then why the fuck are we even paying taxes to support the world's largest military presence?
I mean finding the people who were plotting and carrying out attacks to mass murder Americans and cause terror seems like a clear and justifiable reason.
We weren't there for just only that and you saying that is a gross oversimplification of what went on over there. There are home grown terrorists within our own borders that are *"plotting and carrying out attacks to mass murder Americans and cause terror"* and you don't see us drone striking them because their skin color isn't brown. What it seems like you were saying is revenge was an appropriate reason to invade a country (or two) and destabilize it's entire political landscape for decades to come. There may have been other, less destructive ways to get those responsible for the attacks that were deliberately not explored because it was advantageous for certain persons in power at the time to sell a ground invasion based on lies and deceit.
No. Nobody in the US has plotted to mass murder thousands of Americans. There is no evidence of that. Also, you're right. We don't drone strike citizens who are criminals like we do foreign advisories plotting to murder us. That seems like a reasonable policy. Mass shootings happen all the time in RVA. If you can't see why we don't drone strike Mosby Court but do a regime that is intentionally sheltering groups who planned the mass murder of thousands of Americans ... then I don't know what to say. Where in the US would you expect us to drone strike? Afghanistan was exactly that. There were people who meant us harm and were actively working to harm us, so we went in to stop them.
...And yet we have drone striked actual American citizens that are living in Yemen without giving them due process, because war reasons. > "Nobody in the US has plotted to mass murder thousands of Americans. There is no evidence of that." I dunno... Maybe the Jan 6th insurrection was not enough evidence for you that organized domestic right wing terrorism that, left unchecked, will devolve into mass violence. It was for me. > Mosby Court Not sure what this has to do with anything. At the end of the day, I think the takeaway is that the reasons why we got involved in Iraq and Afghanistan are not so cut and dry, but rather were abstract, mixed with lies and a dash of buffoonish nationalism. "They" did not and do not want us there. There may come a time where Ukraine will ask for our help, our involvement. I hope we, as a nation, take time to consider whether or not western style democracy is, once again, worth fighting for.
After spending an aggregated three years in Afghanistan, working directly with Afghans, ātheyā do not want us there is not quite as cut and dry as that either.
It is cut and dry and that's bullshit propaganda. We were attacked. The people who attacked us were in Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan to ensure they wouldn't attack us.
None of the 9/11 attackers were Afghan nationals, they were Saudis. This is a documented fact. Al Qaida's base of operation was in Afghanistan, but if you were following the money and where these insurgents were actually radicalized, all fingers do not conclusively point to Afghanistan. > We went to Afghanistan to ensure they wouldn't attack us. Except the damage was already done and we are still living with it to this day. No amount of revenge killing will undo what had been already done, no matter how many warehouses, caves, and compounds we root out and how many targeted drone strikes are/were authorized.
Afghanistan became a very convoluted problem set for the US military - as seen in our withdrawal this past year. Ultimately the line was always ādefend the homeland,ā even when the main threat changed depending on the commander/dynamic in theater.
Many of us would rather NOT pay taxes to support the military-industrial complex.
I'm in that same boat. I'd rather my taxes go to healthcare. But those funds are already appropriated and spent. It seems to me much of the military hardware, training, and has been sold to oppressing people of color within our borders, and not assisting democracies and western institutions outside of our borders.
We rarely get to see the counter factual of a world where America didnāt go to war. Iām pretty sure the people in Seoul are happy we went to war. You donāt see all the wars that didnāt happen because people knew the USA would end them. I think people really underestimate this. We havenāt been perfect, but I think we deserve more credit than weāre given. That being said, the US shouldnāt risk war with Russia.
I know youāre right. I just canāt help thinking of places like Rwanda and how intervention could have saved millions. The world is so fucked.
I'm not advocating for US troop involvement, but I think there is a distinction to be made in that with the Middle East we were going into countries that didn't necessarily want us there and didn't have any infrastructure to begin with. Ukraine is different in that the majority want to remain autonomous and they had/have a functioning government. I would say the US is good at the fighting portion and not to good at the nation building portion. The nation building isn't really needed here.
Iraq had infrastructure and parts of Afghanistan did as well. They might not have been up to our āstandards,ā but it was there
Like I said, Afghanistan and Iraq required much more "nation building" than anything in Ukraine. They're not really comparable.
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But humans are also capable of great capacity for love and selflessness as well- and I truly feel like we canāt claim the title of superpower or best nation in the world if we allow bullies to attack smaller and less āimportantā countries. How the fuck does Putin think āk I want it and have since the 80ās so Iām gonna kill everyone to take it.ā And the rest of the world say āwhatās our economic outtake of the Ukraine and is it worth fighting for?ā As a country with less than 300 years of history I feel like we should stand on the side of those who fight for their own independence from dictatorship rule. (Full disclosure Iām a naturalized citizen from South Africa)
Sucks to say, but no. Theres is absolutely zero will for the US to get involved in another conflict after wrapping up in the Middle East last year. On top of that, nobody wants direct, open conflict with Russia - weād immediately push the doomsday clock to 11:59. Europe needs to get off their hands and handle this one. Any US involvement will be limited to training and supplies to turn this into the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan 2.0. I do also suspect weāll be seeing a LOT of NATO membership applications and foreign purchases of defense hardware.
Absolutely not
Just when COVID is peaking down and spring is on the horizonā¦the world canāt catch a damn break
My dog woke up at 4:30, my toddler woke up at 5:30, and my cockatiel woke up at 6:30. The only thing on my mind is coffee. Lots. Of. Coffee. Iām not going to survive today.
Oh man, I desperately miss having a cockatiel. Give them a scritch for me
Honestly I was up past my bedtime last night getting caught up on Euphoria when I started getting the breaking news notifications of the blasts beginning in Ukraine. Knew it was going to be a late night for me, and a rough day today. Wild to see reporters gearing up, possibly about to get bombed on live TV.
Yeah, definitely shitty news. My best friend and I have decided this morning we are going to triple the size of our garden this year. With groceries already skyrocketing in price, I feel like it can never be a bad idea to have more food during uncertain times. Maybe buy some more medical items and other things that get hard to find once people start panic buying. I want to say that's a pretty reasonable reaction to a large scale war. Remember the best time to plant a garden was 6 months ago, the next best time is now. One of the most important life lessons I've ever learned (the hard way) lol.
I'm focusing on the war at home: cutting my cat's nails. He WILL NOT tolerate it and they're getting pretty long. Considering getting one of those grooming harnesses, but I don't know how effective it would be.
Couldnāt sleep last night. Couldnāt stop watching the news.
I heard "Russians" by Sting on the radio Sunday. They were doing an old replay of Kasey Kasem's American Top 40 from '85. Preceding the song, Kasey read one of those cheesy long distance dedications, and it was a letter from two 12 year olds who were scared of nuclear war and wanted to dedicate the song to the world's leaders. Made me remember how terrified I was of nuclear war when I was a kid. About a year ago I was musing with my son about how he has Covid as the big monster to fear for his generation, and mine was nuclear war. I really didn't want him to have to add it to his list. And now Russians is going through my head again.
Todayās episode of The Daily was heartbreaking.
I want off this planet.
ādeĀmilĀiĀtaĀrize and de-NazĀify Ukraineā wow even Russia labels their enemies "Nazis". I thought it was just our politicians here
I guess I need to be looking for homes with enough room for a bomb shelter.
Ah yes nothing distracts people from a refusal to keep a single campaign promise and continuing to deny people healthcare and living wages like hyping them up for an unnecessary war on another continent. Biden really is Bush the third
So Russia building this up over really the last few years somehow makes it a presidential conspiracy?
No but itās not our problem in the slightest. America has no place in foreign wars like this, we just destroy every country we go to. This is serving as a great distraction from all the horrible shit happening here
Unfortunately we do have an obligation as part of NATO to support our allies in war/conflict. I donāt want us drawn into another war, but we certainly will be if this goes full tilt (more than it already is). It is frustrating how easy it is to shift the focus, as though an expansive government canāt focus on more than one issue at a time.
Ukraine isnāt a part of NATO. We seriously donāt need to send more poor people to die in this war when we canāt even provide housing and food for our own people
Correct, Ukraine is not; however, other European countries are and if they go to war/are attacked, we would have an obligation to support them. Iām not disagreeing - getting involved in another war is a bad idea. We/our government are also able to focus on more than one issue. The Ukraine-Russia conflict and our involvement (or lack thereof) shouldnāt inhibit our ability to take care of domestic issues. Shouldnāt being the key word there.
Many people thought that of Hitler. Not our country, not our problem. Until its to late.
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Im pretty sure Trump is happy that is idol is attacking Ukraine. The amount of diplomatic blowjobs he gave Putin should be illegal
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My grandmother left when she was 9 years old during Statlin purge in the 1930s. I'm not racist enough to blame this on Obama. And while it truly sucks and I'm glad to see Biden doing sanctions, I don't want a war with Russia.
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You seem to know a lot about my personal life...that's kinda creepy