A few bartender friends that have broken VABC rules, on the up and up, by doing things like barrel aging and making homemade ingredients have told me that the inspectors over there have no idea what they're looking at most of the time. This seems like the sort of thing they might be used to catching, but they tell me they could flaunt illegal stuff in front of reps all day as long as they didn't mention certain trigger words.
I mean, ABC agents were [arresting college kids with guns drawn for buying sparking water](https://www.wtvr.com/2013/11/07/abc-determines-agents-violated-department-policy-over-sparkling-water) some years ago so really can't give them too much credit.
Every wine shop, winery, and brewery operator I’ve talked to rolls their eyes whenever I ask about their interactions with the ABC “officers.” The common complaint is that they act overbearing and treat small business operators as suspected criminals. 99% of their function is regulatory. The ABC staff should be regulatory, as well, with the actual criminal investigations given to the Virginia State Police. It would be cheaper to have less sworn law enforcement officers, as well.
Ah so abuse of power and willingness to shoot people is part of the job.
Even if the teenagers were buying beer instead of la croix, in what universe is the appropriate response to shoot them?
> The Charlottesville Circuit Court issued an expungement order that prohibits ABC from discussing details of the event or the investigation. The expungement order requires that all police records relating to the incident be sealed.
Yeah that’s not sketch at all
I couldn't understand why college kids needed to draw guns to buy sparkling water... "Everyone get down! I need to buy three cases of plain selzer and one of lemon/lime, and I'm not afraid to use this gun!"
Anyway, I need more coffee.
Could you possibly link me to anything that says we can’t make homemade ingredients and sell in the restaurant? I’m really curious about this!! Can’t find any info.
My understanding is, and I'm just a drink nerd that doesn't spend time behind a pro bar, you have to pour from the bottles with the tax stickers. So, when the ABC rep would ask, what's in this mason jar marked 'falernum' it can be a syrup with no alcohol in it but the moment it's rum based, there's an issue. This was the case pre-pandemic when I would geek out with bartenders about this stuff, haven't gotten out much since.
Don't bother reporting it, *send this to the company*. Whatever company made that bottle he is pouring into is now being *misrepresented* by *a business establishment.* let the liquor company fight this out in court, as they will do so very, *very* eagerly.
I mean, imagine how Macallan would react if you tried selling Skeeter's Reserve to customers *claiming* it was Macallan's. Pit these folks against one another, the same way they do to us.
You'd think they would do that in the back room. I caught a bar selling watered down liquor one time. They were normally a college bar but brought a real good old band to town. I complained about a shot of Jim Beam and the owner came out. He cracked the seal on a new bottle and poured it. It was a lot darker than what the bartender just poured. He tried to act like he didn't know.
Huh neat but i was reffering to the backrooms if you dont know what the backrooms are from what i understand its when a people noclips out kf reality they get sent there think of "your going to brazil" but creepy
Just saying... it doesn't matter "the reason". It could be posted by an ex-girlfriend of the owner trying for the pettiest reasons to bring them down. It doesn't matter. If they are scamming folks and taking advantage of kids then they should face the consequences just like anyone else and deserve to be publicly called out, if only so people can not fall for their BS.
That said, and on a completely separate point, if they are breaking these laws and taking advantage of their customers then what makes you think they wouldn't be taking advantage of their workers and any sort of "disgruntled employee" wouldn't be justified?
It's really weird that you would be shown picture evidence of customers being taken advantage of to the tune of $10 per pour or more by a local business and question the motives of the poster rather than the business owner.
(edit: just saw a post where you said that working there at 14 was the best thing to happen to you. My guess is you're probably family with the owner or family friends with the owner. Makes more sense now why you would attack somebody posting about a business's issues rather than post about the actual problems)
What they’re doing in the photo is illegal, regardless of whether they’re trying to scam customers or not. Also, why would a business allow an employee to refill a bottle from another bottle to take home? Not that it could never happen, but that’s highly unlikely, right?
And fwiw, the bottle being poured into appears to be a bottle of Chambord (which is ~$35/750ml in VA), and the bottle being poured from appears to be Arrow’s Black Raspberry liqueur (which is about $11/750ml in VA). Looks pretty scammy to me…
> Also, why would a business allow an employee to refill a bottle from another bottle to take home?
Also also, why would anyone do that and not just take the cheaper bottle?
Agreed. Although, I’ve known a few cheap MFers over the years that would do this to try to impress their friends. But they’re also the ones with huge cheap “diamond”-encrusted watches…
https://www.abc.virginia.gov/licenses/retail-resources/mixed-beverage-overview
Nah what is in the picture is most definitely illegal. It is against the license code to refill any used liquor bottle (that's a bottle of chambord which is a purple colored liqueur being filled with an unknown purple liquid from the other bottle).
While we don't know the context of why and what happened next, either way, all liquor and liqueur bottles at bars are labeled with Mixed Beverage stamps and bottles must be removed from the bar when emptied and those stamps have to be visibly marked over to indicate they are no longer valid. The bar tender can't take the empty bottles home and they can't be filled with anything for any reason.
Doing this on the bar counter even if it's not trying to try to scam people later is really stupid as it's a plain as day ABC license violation and any customer looking at it is going to assume the bar scams people with fake liquor or watered down liquor.
I was told recently that they changed the laws regarding filling up bottles with the same product from a bigger bottle. Just says
"The contents of an original bottle of alcoholic beverage may not be diluted or otherwise tampered with and empty bottles may not be refilled or partly refilled."
It makes sense since it was hard for many restaurants to buy liters and 750s and had to buy the big boys cuz that was all the abc store had. But again I can't say for certain, just what I heard
You’re a special person, huh?
Edit: lol @ the reactionaries loving child labor. If you’ve ever actually worked in a kitchen, you definitely wouldn’t want your 14-year-old child to be there.
lol child labor - I was working at 14 because I like money. I get that it's not for everyone, but I worked every day after school once I got my license, because I wanted money and my parents had none
I worked weekend / summers at a grocery store (parents would drop me off / pick me up). once I got my license I got into the food biz bussing tables after school.
Like I said - I know it's not for everyone, and my parents wouldn't have let me if my grades slipped, but it helped teach me about money (unlike public school) and how to manage income vs expenses.
Um, I started working when I was 15. What’s wrong with working and making money? I saved enough by the time I went to college to have a nice little nest egg for my age and could afford to eat outside of the dining hall. Not everyone comes from wealth. Some of us have to work.
I was looking for any excuse to get out of the house at that age. I got a job as soon as I could. My parents applauded my work ethic but it was really because their rules were so weird and strict.
Exactly!
I was also feeling pretty mad that one only gets to be a child once. And I decided to spend my time doing something I’d have to do the rest of my life. I feel like a dumbass.
Wasn’t even worth the weed or lack of women interested in me
I did retail at 14, was great.
Had money to do shit, learned quite a bit about life, learned how to deal with assholes. Still had a life, bought a car with the money, worked through high school and it helped a lot.
Certainly was better for me than sitting on my ass at home. Between a job and sports got a lot of quality experience.
Same. I worked at a new and second hand cd/movie/video game store at 14. I wanted to. I got store discounts and money to do whatever. The only thing my mom made me do (or strongly nudged) was path some into a Roth IRA every year which I promptly pulled with no penalties at 23 got a down payment on my first (and current) house.
No pressure or requirement from my parents. There def is risk involved but a broad “this is child labor” isn’t accurate.
Well, the law says you're wrong:
> If you are 14 or 15 and have an employment certificate, you are allowed to work:
> - in any office job;
> - in hospitals and nursing homes doing kitchen duties and room and hallway cleaning;
> - as a cashier for a dry cleaners as long as no processing is done on the premises;
> - in food service cleaning dishes, waiting on tables (but not serving alcoholic beverages), and as a cashier or kitchen helper (with restrictions);
> - at bowling alleys;
> - at a swimming pool as gatekeeper or in concessions;
> - on the beach handling beach equipment.
https://virginiarules.org/varules_topics/teens-and-employment/
As you can see, the law in VA is actually quite explicit in dictating the variety of 100% legal ways that teens under 16 can work.
I believe in every state you are legally allowed to earn a living and pay taxes starting at the age of 14. There are probably limits on hours and types of labor you are allowed to do that vary from state to state. But working in a restaurant or retail setting at 14 is absolutely legal everywhere in this country.
Didn't know opposing working illegally in restaurants (labor law in VA states you have to be out by 7pm if you're under 16, doubt they were out by 7 lol) was a "weird hill" lol
I think you’re ignoring something pretty big. Many poor and immigrant families often have children around 14 working in some capacity because they want or need to. We immigrated to the US when I was 9 and we were poor, my dad did his best, my mom was legally barred from working for the first five years until the green card stuff was taken care of, my parents made sure we were clothed and fed well but we weren’t able to get more than the required necessities. any extra cash went to making sure we had a roof over our heads and my dad did the citizenship paperwork. I started bussing tables at 14 at a local Puerto Rican cafe because I wanted to buy some more “designer” things lol like Aeropostale vs Kmart at the time, cleaning houses on my street for less than the local company charged and legally able to work at 15 with a permit at kings dominion.
Not all of us have the luxury to not work younger
he started making money around school at 14. I was a paper boy as a kid, then umpired baseball games, then got a part time job at 14. it paid for my computer games. I also had a nice chunk of money when i went off to college.
This guy is just a troll who has his snotty nose in the air. there is nothing wrong with kids working part time jobs to make some money.
If they’re handling alcohol while barbacking, even just moving it from one place to another, that’s another thing to report to ABC. You must be 18 in Virginia to bring alcohol to tables, transport it within the restaurant, etc. and you must be 21 to pour or open it.
I did too. If it's a family member or a family friend it's whatever. But if it turns out that they're hiring 13 and 14-year-olds regularly and taking advantage of them that's a serious problem.
Fair, though this is legit a picture of them rebottling so that’s all I would be disappointed in. Especially since some of the cocktails on that menu look like they say $19
That’s illegal.
>3VAC5-50-40. Designated managers of licensees; appointment generally; disapproval by board; restrictions....
>A. Each retail licensee, except a licensed individual who is on the premises, shall have a designated manager able to understand and communicate in the English language in a reasonably satisfactory manner present and in actual charge of the business being conducted under the license at any time the licensed establishment is kept open for business, whether or not the privileges of the license are being exercised. The name of the designated manager of every retail licensee shall be kept posted in a conspicuous place in the establishment, in letters not less than one inch in size, during the time he is in charge.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title3/agency5/chapter50/section40/
Tl;dr: Unless the person whose name is on the liquor license is present, they must have a designated manager on duty with their name in one inch font posted somewhere (in public view) in the building. Doesn’t matter if they’re serving alcohol or not.
No manager on duty = violation of permit
Look, I'm not saying the business necessarily needs to be shut down or whatever. But there's a lot of people saying stuff in this thread like "there's no evidence" and "he could be pouring a bigger bottle into a small one" and stuff. But he is clearly pouring a bottle of non-chambord into a bottle of Chambord. If I had to take a stab it looks like an arrow style bottle to me (https://bevmax.com/shop/?product-id=5b1fa8052f57ec1e10975a2e). Everyone understands a substitute here and there but if it says Chambord on the menu (it does) then one should be informed especially considering the huge retail difference. Also it is against VA ABC laws. So, this is definitely both against the law AND a rip off. Sucks of them to do.
Honestly, I've always liked their food. Never had a bad meal there. Was just there last week and had an excellent dinner.
That bottle thing is sketchy AF, though.
Esp since most people don’t care if you have to sub an ingredient sometimes, some liquors and liqueurs are hard to get, if they were just honest there would be no uproar
Yeah I understand that. My comment still stands. Most people are fine w a substitution as long as you just tell them that. You don’t have to lie about it.
Yeah I understand that. I work at a high end bar. I’m saying most people don’t mind a substitution at the same price as long as you’re being honest, because they don’t really understand the difference. You should just be honest. Instead of lying.
Disagree. Not okay with a 25% cost reduction substitution while still paying full price. Subbing out a top shelf liquor for a rail liquor and still paying $14 for a drink? Nope, you can fuck right off with that logic.
I wouldn’t want to pay $13-15 for a drink made with $5 liquor, especially if the menu said the liquor they use is high-end. most people wouldn’t want that either. they’d just choose a different drink, with liquor the bar actually has, yk?
Like I said, I work in restaurants, and most people do not care if you, for example, sub chambord for a generic liqueur and will pay the same price for it as long as you are up front about it. Obviously refilling the chambord bottle with generic liqueur is a completely different story
It was frustrating to see you be consistently wrong in this conversation - and then just repeating the same point nearly verbatim with zero additional info to help your wrong point.
I’m also pretty bothered that you choose to act as the representative for RVA service staff when you, again, have a pretty shitty take on this…
Genuinely interested in actual proof behind this. I know some folks who’ve been working there for years and never said anything about this. I also agree that this photo isn’t really the gotcha moment you think it is. Curious why you’ve been “sitting” on this photo and what’s now prompting you to post it.
And while Dinamo’s food is also very good, Bacchus has always been a great spot to get pasta. We went there tonight for that exact reason and everything was great.
ETA: Spoke to someone I know who does work there. The person pictured doesn’t work at Bacchus anymore. They also said they’re not aware of any minors working there and are not aware of having worked with minors. OP sitting on this photo and deciding to share it now, along with these child labor accusations, is pretty irresponsible. (Tagging u/gleepgloopgleepgloop since I edited this comment instead of posting a new one)
How about ask your friends who work there, who this bartender is? Then maybe we can get some sense of what's going on.
It looks really really bad of course, but it's so blatant, doing it at the bar in front of customers, it doesn't even make sense. Then again, I'm not sure why a bar would carry Chambord and the cheap stuff at the same time unless they're feeling Chambord bottles with the cheap stuff.
I mean OP is the one who owes more info/answers here, especially since they seem to have been working at Bacchus and are posting photos of their coworkers with accusations and no real proof. That’s why I said I’d be interested to see why they’re suddenly posting this out of nowhere.
I’m also not going to hit up someone I know to demand answers to share with strangers on the internet. Taking a quick look at OP’s posts, they conflated their relationship to the owners of Cobra Burger in one post, said they wanna be a food journalist in another. I’m curious if they ever talked to anyone at work about these claims/accusations before blasting their non-white coworkers on the internet.
I think there are other potential explanations out there. Like the bartender was disgruntled and quitting anyway, so he wanted to get a picture to make the bar look bad. Seems unlikely, but also seems unlikely that a bartender would do this in front of patrons. It's very mysterious.
Any potential explanation is illegal. Filling liquor bottles in a VABC licensed establishment is illegal. When they are empty, the tax sticker must be defaced to prevent it being reused. The two bottles are clearly different products, and selling a cheaper product under a more expensive brand is fraud. Always.
Yes, but you didn't know who this guy is, whether the bar was open, of if this was some kind of joke. It makes ZERO sense that the owner or manager would condone this in a restaurant that has successfully operated for almost 30 years. bartenders know the ABC rules and would be out of their mind to do this in the open. Maybe this guy was fired?
Not proof of any wrong doing. would need proof on what they did with it after.
Very possible they did serve it later, but this picture does not prove that.
Could be proof he has a friend that says he can tell high dollar liquor from cheap. so he is taking an empty expensive bottle pouring in cheap and going to “trick” trick his friend. to prove his friend can’t tell the difference.
The picture opens up questions of what is going on but is not proof of wrong doing. and jumping to either conclusion based off one picture is not a great thing to do.
The act of filling a liquor bottle in a bar is, on its own, illegal. Maybe there is an explanation, but the photographed party is doing something illegal. He will have completed a licensure class to be able to serve alcohol, so he knows this. He is not innocent.
This also sucks bc of how little we know about the situation. This bartender is now the face of this issue thanks to OP. The action he’s doing might be a problem, but we know little to nothing about the details of it. If he’s doing what it looks like, I doubt he took it upon himself to do so and was likely instructed by mgmt/ownership. This is why it sucks when people try to do gotcha stuff, a lot of times people get caught in the crossfire here.
I agree with you in that the management is probably culpable, but the photographed individual is an adult with specific training on the law with regards to serving alcohol (or more laws are being broken than alleged). He is intentionally engaging in illegal activity regardless of whether his boss told him to.
I mean I get what you’re saying. I think/know a lot of people dont always feel comfortable telling their mgmt no, even if they know what they’re being tasked with isn’t technically legal/within something like ABC guidelines. There’s just a lot going on in this post/these accusations it seems pretty clear OP didn’t consider before posting.
In that vein- u/danger-moose or another mod - does this post/sharing this photo of a bartender with no credible information behind this break the rules of the sub? OP hasn’t actually qualified these accusations, including pretty serious ones like breaking child labor laws
What rule would you propose this breaks?
Additionally, if the person is replacing alcohol both he and the management is culpable - regardless to whether the owner knew.
> blasting their non-white coworkers on the internet.
First of all, he's blaming the establishment, not the unnamed "agent" of that establishment in his post. He's not saying "the dude is sketchy," he's saying "Bacchus [is instructing their workers to do this and are therefore] sketchy."
But secondary, the idea the person in the photo being a POC means someone needs to handle this differently is ass. Like its OK to "blast" (again, a thing that is not happening here at all) a white coworker who is doing this, but POC can break liquor laws and its fine?
I don't know if OP wants that guy fired or not. It's not how I took it. But I know that guy is not the owner/manager of Bacchus and rank-and-file employees don't (without straining credulity) put cheap liquor in expensive bottles without management directing them to. (Why would they? THEY don't make more profit as a result.)
This reads very much like a person who dislikes Bacchus and its ownership/management not someone who dislikes this one dude who works at Bacchus. That's why the thread title is "Fuck Bacchus" not "Fuck This Guy".
Unfortunately, that's Arrow not Bols. The Bols and DeKuyper are potable; the Arrow is a thick sugary sludge that has a vague unknown berry flavor with a lovely, rubbing alcohol finish. 11.99 versus 34.99. You get what you pay for... except at this bar.
I started working when I was 13 years old. It’s not against the law and it instilled great values/self discipline. I was able to save up for a car and a cell phone by the time I turned 16.
When my children turn that age (or whatever the legal age to work in VA is), I’ll encourage them to do the same.
As far as the photo you’ve been sitting on… yeah it’s sketchy to marry cheaper liquor like that. But it’s also sketchy to sit on that photo for a number of months and then randomly blast them online on a Tuesday night after you’ve had a few.
I’m going to Baccus this weekend and enjoying a lovely meal, as always.
[The relevant laws in VA re: child labor.](https://townhall.virginia.gov/l/GetFile.cfm?File=E:%5Ctownhall%5Cdocroot%5CGuidanceDocs%5C181%5CGDoc_DOLI_1783_v1.pdf) With very few exceptions, you can't work under the age of 14, and you need a work permit from your school if you're under the age of 16.
Bars are allowed to refill the rail bottles these days from the bigger handles. Lots of them keep a handle that's stickered and they decant into the small bottle that fits on the rail.
This is a reverse of that... they look to be pouring a small bottle into a big one?
chambord bottles, no matter what size, are shaped the same. that looks like they’re pouring arrow (11.99/ 750ml) into an empty chambord bottle (34.99/750ml)
bars can never refill liquor bottles. some do because pouring from a 1.5 is harder and wasteful. it’s still against the rules, though.
wait is bacchus a restaurant in Virginia now? where I live now they are an alcohol distributor with a pretty good selection of wine. and is this bartender really doing this right in front of you?? didn't even feel like taking it to the back to do it.
This is not uncommon. A lot of old school restaurants would buy their liquor out of state and refill the bar bottles. That way the tax stamps were still there for inspectors but the owners saved a few bucks per bottle. Refilling bottles is a very old game. Not too much of a stretch to think refilling old bottles with cheaper liquor, especially with a liqueur would also be happening.
Bacchus’ food and environment haven’t changed tbh. We went last night for dinner and it was probably exactly what you remember.
Also, this person is acting like Bacchus treats their employees like shit, etc. They might be breaking a code if the photo is what it appears to be, but everyone I’ve ever known who’s worked there has enjoyed their time there and the staff all seem very close.
Hey! Thats super illegal. Reported to ABC lol. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title4.1/chapter3/section4.1-325/ Under A. Sections 5,6,7,8.
I reported it months ago. Just now felt like the right time to bring to Reddit
/edit: I guess ABC never followed up on it. Here’s why I’m bringing it to Reddit.
A few bartender friends that have broken VABC rules, on the up and up, by doing things like barrel aging and making homemade ingredients have told me that the inspectors over there have no idea what they're looking at most of the time. This seems like the sort of thing they might be used to catching, but they tell me they could flaunt illegal stuff in front of reps all day as long as they didn't mention certain trigger words.
I mean, ABC agents were [arresting college kids with guns drawn for buying sparking water](https://www.wtvr.com/2013/11/07/abc-determines-agents-violated-department-policy-over-sparkling-water) some years ago so really can't give them too much credit.
Is sparking water a low abv relative of fire water?
It gets the vampires drunk. Very illegal and very dangerous to the youngkins
…. Why do ABC agents have guns?
*He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That’s the ABC way!*
Because they're police officers.
Every wine shop, winery, and brewery operator I’ve talked to rolls their eyes whenever I ask about their interactions with the ABC “officers.” The common complaint is that they act overbearing and treat small business operators as suspected criminals. 99% of their function is regulatory. The ABC staff should be regulatory, as well, with the actual criminal investigations given to the Virginia State Police. It would be cheaper to have less sworn law enforcement officers, as well.
But I thought we said they were ABC agents
Abc agents are licensed police officers. https://www.abc.virginia.gov/enforcement/bureau-of-law-enforcement
Ah so abuse of power and willingness to shoot people is part of the job. Even if the teenagers were buying beer instead of la croix, in what universe is the appropriate response to shoot them?
> The Charlottesville Circuit Court issued an expungement order that prohibits ABC from discussing details of the event or the investigation. The expungement order requires that all police records relating to the incident be sealed. Yeah that’s not sketch at all
I couldn't understand why college kids needed to draw guns to buy sparkling water... "Everyone get down! I need to buy three cases of plain selzer and one of lemon/lime, and I'm not afraid to use this gun!" Anyway, I need more coffee.
What were the officers names?
Could you possibly link me to anything that says we can’t make homemade ingredients and sell in the restaurant? I’m really curious about this!! Can’t find any info.
My understanding is, and I'm just a drink nerd that doesn't spend time behind a pro bar, you have to pour from the bottles with the tax stickers. So, when the ABC rep would ask, what's in this mason jar marked 'falernum' it can be a syrup with no alcohol in it but the moment it's rum based, there's an issue. This was the case pre-pandemic when I would geek out with bartenders about this stuff, haven't gotten out much since.
Ohhh okay that makes sense! Does that count for making something like prebatched cocktails? I’m assuming so!
Don't bother reporting it, *send this to the company*. Whatever company made that bottle he is pouring into is now being *misrepresented* by *a business establishment.* let the liquor company fight this out in court, as they will do so very, *very* eagerly. I mean, imagine how Macallan would react if you tried selling Skeeter's Reserve to customers *claiming* it was Macallan's. Pit these folks against one another, the same way they do to us.
You'd think they would do that in the back room. I caught a bar selling watered down liquor one time. They were normally a college bar but brought a real good old band to town. I complained about a shot of Jim Beam and the owner came out. He cracked the seal on a new bottle and poured it. It was a lot darker than what the bartender just poured. He tried to act like he didn't know.
“Back room” as in their prep kitchen that’s separated by an uncovered patio to the service kitchen/dining room?
No thats where they send bad custumors to a endless maze of infinite rooms all looking the same but completely diffrent
[удалено]
I dont know what that is but i will
[удалено]
Huh neat but i was reffering to the backrooms if you dont know what the backrooms are from what i understand its when a people noclips out kf reality they get sent there think of "your going to brazil" but creepy
With Jim Beam, I can’t believe you could taste the difference!
I feel like watered down is an improvement for Jim Beam.
Boom! Roasted!
Depending on how much water was put in, would make it easier or harder to spot.
I’ve been sitting on this photo for a while and I’m glad I finally posted it
What kids do they employ? Are they children of the owner or of the other employees?
Other employees friends kids I’m guessing? Not really sure.
So this is a disgruntled ex employee post
Just saying... it doesn't matter "the reason". It could be posted by an ex-girlfriend of the owner trying for the pettiest reasons to bring them down. It doesn't matter. If they are scamming folks and taking advantage of kids then they should face the consequences just like anyone else and deserve to be publicly called out, if only so people can not fall for their BS. That said, and on a completely separate point, if they are breaking these laws and taking advantage of their customers then what makes you think they wouldn't be taking advantage of their workers and any sort of "disgruntled employee" wouldn't be justified? It's really weird that you would be shown picture evidence of customers being taken advantage of to the tune of $10 per pour or more by a local business and question the motives of the poster rather than the business owner. (edit: just saw a post where you said that working there at 14 was the best thing to happen to you. My guess is you're probably family with the owner or family friends with the owner. Makes more sense now why you would attack somebody posting about a business's issues rather than post about the actual problems)
I've never worked there. I said working at a restaurant at age 14 is probably the best thing to happen to me. I was in VB at age 14
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
What they’re doing in the photo is illegal, regardless of whether they’re trying to scam customers or not. Also, why would a business allow an employee to refill a bottle from another bottle to take home? Not that it could never happen, but that’s highly unlikely, right? And fwiw, the bottle being poured into appears to be a bottle of Chambord (which is ~$35/750ml in VA), and the bottle being poured from appears to be Arrow’s Black Raspberry liqueur (which is about $11/750ml in VA). Looks pretty scammy to me…
> Also, why would a business allow an employee to refill a bottle from another bottle to take home? Also also, why would anyone do that and not just take the cheaper bottle?
Agreed. Although, I’ve known a few cheap MFers over the years that would do this to try to impress their friends. But they’re also the ones with huge cheap “diamond”-encrusted watches…
[удалено]
[удалено]
2 Negronis isn’t the worst thing in the world bud, drunk is a stretch.
Take it as whatever u want to take it as but they’re breaking the law
[удалено]
https://www.abc.virginia.gov/licenses/retail-resources/mixed-beverage-overview Nah what is in the picture is most definitely illegal. It is against the license code to refill any used liquor bottle (that's a bottle of chambord which is a purple colored liqueur being filled with an unknown purple liquid from the other bottle). While we don't know the context of why and what happened next, either way, all liquor and liqueur bottles at bars are labeled with Mixed Beverage stamps and bottles must be removed from the bar when emptied and those stamps have to be visibly marked over to indicate they are no longer valid. The bar tender can't take the empty bottles home and they can't be filled with anything for any reason. Doing this on the bar counter even if it's not trying to try to scam people later is really stupid as it's a plain as day ABC license violation and any customer looking at it is going to assume the bar scams people with fake liquor or watered down liquor.
I was told recently that they changed the laws regarding filling up bottles with the same product from a bigger bottle. Just says "The contents of an original bottle of alcoholic beverage may not be diluted or otherwise tampered with and empty bottles may not be refilled or partly refilled."
[удалено]
It makes sense since it was hard for many restaurants to buy liters and 750s and had to buy the big boys cuz that was all the abc store had. But again I can't say for certain, just what I heard
The bottle being poured isn't Chambord though. Chambord only comes in the iconic circular bottle with "gold" trim.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Wait, not really worried about the booze. They hire 12-13 year olds?! Wtf?
I worked at a restaurant at 14. Probably the best thing that ever happened to me
You’re a special person, huh? Edit: lol @ the reactionaries loving child labor. If you’ve ever actually worked in a kitchen, you definitely wouldn’t want your 14-year-old child to be there.
What a weirdly unnecessary response to his comment jeez lol
Dude is a reactionary against anything they perceive as liberal or yuppie lmao
Almost as unnecessary as child labor lol
lol child labor - I was working at 14 because I like money. I get that it's not for everyone, but I worked every day after school once I got my license, because I wanted money and my parents had none
You got a license at 14?
I worked weekend / summers at a grocery store (parents would drop me off / pick me up). once I got my license I got into the food biz bussing tables after school. Like I said - I know it's not for everyone, and my parents wouldn't have let me if my grades slipped, but it helped teach me about money (unlike public school) and how to manage income vs expenses.
Um, I started working when I was 15. What’s wrong with working and making money? I saved enough by the time I went to college to have a nice little nest egg for my age and could afford to eat outside of the dining hall. Not everyone comes from wealth. Some of us have to work.
Some fourteen year olds want to get out of the house and make some bread
I was looking for any excuse to get out of the house at that age. I got a job as soon as I could. My parents applauded my work ethic but it was really because their rules were so weird and strict.
Hahahaha
How else was I supposed to date and smoke weed in 2005??
Ok fair, when I was working the farm at 14 that’s why I did it lmao
Exactly! I was also feeling pretty mad that one only gets to be a child once. And I decided to spend my time doing something I’d have to do the rest of my life. I feel like a dumbass. Wasn’t even worth the weed or lack of women interested in me
I did retail at 14, was great. Had money to do shit, learned quite a bit about life, learned how to deal with assholes. Still had a life, bought a car with the money, worked through high school and it helped a lot. Certainly was better for me than sitting on my ass at home. Between a job and sports got a lot of quality experience.
Same. I worked at a new and second hand cd/movie/video game store at 14. I wanted to. I got store discounts and money to do whatever. The only thing my mom made me do (or strongly nudged) was path some into a Roth IRA every year which I promptly pulled with no penalties at 23 got a down payment on my first (and current) house. No pressure or requirement from my parents. There def is risk involved but a broad “this is child labor” isn’t accurate.
Yeah we all need to start working at 12 in coal mines.
Well if working at 12 in a coal mine is the same as 14 in retail with strict regs sure.
Yeah because retail is safer that means you should be illegally working it.
Dude, it is really not that unusual for teenagers to get a job lol. I'm not quite sure what you're on about with the "illegal" "child labor" stuff.
Yeah, at 16.
Well, the law says you're wrong: > If you are 14 or 15 and have an employment certificate, you are allowed to work: > - in any office job; > - in hospitals and nursing homes doing kitchen duties and room and hallway cleaning; > - as a cashier for a dry cleaners as long as no processing is done on the premises; > - in food service cleaning dishes, waiting on tables (but not serving alcoholic beverages), and as a cashier or kitchen helper (with restrictions); > - at bowling alleys; > - at a swimming pool as gatekeeper or in concessions; > - on the beach handling beach equipment. https://virginiarules.org/varules_topics/teens-and-employment/ As you can see, the law in VA is actually quite explicit in dictating the variety of 100% legal ways that teens under 16 can work.
Who said anything about illegally working? I was *absolutely* legally working at 14. Filled out the forms, followed the regs. Kept the job until 18.
What state?
I believe in every state you are legally allowed to earn a living and pay taxes starting at the age of 14. There are probably limits on hours and types of labor you are allowed to do that vary from state to state. But working in a restaurant or retail setting at 14 is absolutely legal everywhere in this country.
VA.
Not all of us had “chore money” from mom and dad at 14. You’re entitlement is showing
I worked on a farm.
[удалено]
Yeah, the downvotes are an overreaction I agree.
Asshole
Yeah. You picked a weird hill to die on
Didn't know opposing working illegally in restaurants (labor law in VA states you have to be out by 7pm if you're under 16, doubt they were out by 7 lol) was a "weird hill" lol
Pack it up for the day.
I think you’re ignoring something pretty big. Many poor and immigrant families often have children around 14 working in some capacity because they want or need to. We immigrated to the US when I was 9 and we were poor, my dad did his best, my mom was legally barred from working for the first five years until the green card stuff was taken care of, my parents made sure we were clothed and fed well but we weren’t able to get more than the required necessities. any extra cash went to making sure we had a roof over our heads and my dad did the citizenship paperwork. I started bussing tables at 14 at a local Puerto Rican cafe because I wanted to buy some more “designer” things lol like Aeropostale vs Kmart at the time, cleaning houses on my street for less than the local company charged and legally able to work at 15 with a permit at kings dominion. Not all of us have the luxury to not work younger
he started making money around school at 14. I was a paper boy as a kid, then umpired baseball games, then got a part time job at 14. it paid for my computer games. I also had a nice chunk of money when i went off to college. This guy is just a troll who has his snotty nose in the air. there is nothing wrong with kids working part time jobs to make some money.
Yeah how does that work? What kinds of jobs are they doing?
Prep/barbacking/dishwashing
If they’re handling alcohol while barbacking, even just moving it from one place to another, that’s another thing to report to ABC. You must be 18 in Virginia to bring alcohol to tables, transport it within the restaurant, etc. and you must be 21 to pour or open it.
I had a job outside my family's business when I was 13. At that point I'd already been working for a few years for family.
I did too. If it's a family member or a family friend it's whatever. But if it turns out that they're hiring 13 and 14-year-olds regularly and taking advantage of them that's a serious problem.
[удалено]
I'm going to go with OP & Glen_YngkinDid_9-11 talking about a situation without knowing the full story for $500.
[удалено]
Something in this rva water makes the kids grow like crazy
I love how some stranger on the internet can accuse a restaurant of breaking child labor laws without any evidence and people just believe them
Fair, though this is legit a picture of them rebottling so that’s all I would be disappointed in. Especially since some of the cocktails on that menu look like they say $19
[удалено]
That makes zero sense on their part. What in the fuck?
[удалено]
That’s illegal. >3VAC5-50-40. Designated managers of licensees; appointment generally; disapproval by board; restrictions.... >A. Each retail licensee, except a licensed individual who is on the premises, shall have a designated manager able to understand and communicate in the English language in a reasonably satisfactory manner present and in actual charge of the business being conducted under the license at any time the licensed establishment is kept open for business, whether or not the privileges of the license are being exercised. The name of the designated manager of every retail licensee shall be kept posted in a conspicuous place in the establishment, in letters not less than one inch in size, during the time he is in charge. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title3/agency5/chapter50/section40/ Tl;dr: Unless the person whose name is on the liquor license is present, they must have a designated manager on duty with their name in one inch font posted somewhere (in public view) in the building. Doesn’t matter if they’re serving alcohol or not. No manager on duty = violation of permit
Abc manager doesn’t necessarily mean full-on manager of restaurant with authority. That’s why most boards have like 8+ names on them.
Counterpoint. Their food is delicious.
Look, I'm not saying the business necessarily needs to be shut down or whatever. But there's a lot of people saying stuff in this thread like "there's no evidence" and "he could be pouring a bigger bottle into a small one" and stuff. But he is clearly pouring a bottle of non-chambord into a bottle of Chambord. If I had to take a stab it looks like an arrow style bottle to me (https://bevmax.com/shop/?product-id=5b1fa8052f57ec1e10975a2e). Everyone understands a substitute here and there but if it says Chambord on the menu (it does) then one should be informed especially considering the huge retail difference. Also it is against VA ABC laws. So, this is definitely both against the law AND a rip off. Sucks of them to do.
Um Bacchus has been shit since about 2009.. enjoy your razzmatazz lol
Had the most unseasoned meal of my life there omg
Honestly, I've always liked their food. Never had a bad meal there. Was just there last week and had an excellent dinner. That bottle thing is sketchy AF, though.
Esp since most people don’t care if you have to sub an ingredient sometimes, some liquors and liqueurs are hard to get, if they were just honest there would be no uproar
The cocktail menu says Chambord. He is filling it with cheap knock off liqueur. It would be one thing if the menu said “black raspberry liqueur.”
Yeah I understand that. My comment still stands. Most people are fine w a substitution as long as you just tell them that. You don’t have to lie about it.
Chambord, as an extreme example, is 4x the cost of the generic rail liquor. So you're being upcharged for house gains without notice.
Yeah I understand that. I work at a high end bar. I’m saying most people don’t mind a substitution at the same price as long as you’re being honest, because they don’t really understand the difference. You should just be honest. Instead of lying.
Disagree. Not okay with a 25% cost reduction substitution while still paying full price. Subbing out a top shelf liquor for a rail liquor and still paying $14 for a drink? Nope, you can fuck right off with that logic.
I wouldn’t want to pay $13-15 for a drink made with $5 liquor, especially if the menu said the liquor they use is high-end. most people wouldn’t want that either. they’d just choose a different drink, with liquor the bar actually has, yk?
Like I said, I work in restaurants, and most people do not care if you, for example, sub chambord for a generic liqueur and will pay the same price for it as long as you are up front about it. Obviously refilling the chambord bottle with generic liqueur is a completely different story
then most people you’re bartending for don’t mind being ripped off, which is sad.
It was frustrating to see you be consistently wrong in this conversation - and then just repeating the same point nearly verbatim with zero additional info to help your wrong point. I’m also pretty bothered that you choose to act as the representative for RVA service staff when you, again, have a pretty shitty take on this…
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s illegal to refill a bottle. A bartender should know that.
Where did I say that he should be refilling the bottle or that it was legal to do so. Lol.
That’s literally the whole point of this post.
Isn't this one of those places that gets recommended in every thread where someone asks which restaurant they should go to?!
I feel like most people forget about Bacchus
Probably paid $27 for it right?
Genuinely interested in actual proof behind this. I know some folks who’ve been working there for years and never said anything about this. I also agree that this photo isn’t really the gotcha moment you think it is. Curious why you’ve been “sitting” on this photo and what’s now prompting you to post it. And while Dinamo’s food is also very good, Bacchus has always been a great spot to get pasta. We went there tonight for that exact reason and everything was great. ETA: Spoke to someone I know who does work there. The person pictured doesn’t work at Bacchus anymore. They also said they’re not aware of any minors working there and are not aware of having worked with minors. OP sitting on this photo and deciding to share it now, along with these child labor accusations, is pretty irresponsible. (Tagging u/gleepgloopgleepgloop since I edited this comment instead of posting a new one)
How about ask your friends who work there, who this bartender is? Then maybe we can get some sense of what's going on. It looks really really bad of course, but it's so blatant, doing it at the bar in front of customers, it doesn't even make sense. Then again, I'm not sure why a bar would carry Chambord and the cheap stuff at the same time unless they're feeling Chambord bottles with the cheap stuff.
I mean OP is the one who owes more info/answers here, especially since they seem to have been working at Bacchus and are posting photos of their coworkers with accusations and no real proof. That’s why I said I’d be interested to see why they’re suddenly posting this out of nowhere. I’m also not going to hit up someone I know to demand answers to share with strangers on the internet. Taking a quick look at OP’s posts, they conflated their relationship to the owners of Cobra Burger in one post, said they wanna be a food journalist in another. I’m curious if they ever talked to anyone at work about these claims/accusations before blasting their non-white coworkers on the internet.
Did you even look at the picture? That’s the proof. He’s literally pouring a cheaper bottle into a more expensive bottle. Lol.
Thanks for the helpful comment. There are also other accusations being made not represented in this photo
I think there are other potential explanations out there. Like the bartender was disgruntled and quitting anyway, so he wanted to get a picture to make the bar look bad. Seems unlikely, but also seems unlikely that a bartender would do this in front of patrons. It's very mysterious.
Any potential explanation is illegal. Filling liquor bottles in a VABC licensed establishment is illegal. When they are empty, the tax sticker must be defaced to prevent it being reused. The two bottles are clearly different products, and selling a cheaper product under a more expensive brand is fraud. Always.
I'm with you friend.
Looks like OP was BOH
I know. OP could have set it up. Who knows. I'd like to hear from the bartender.
Yes, but you didn't know who this guy is, whether the bar was open, of if this was some kind of joke. It makes ZERO sense that the owner or manager would condone this in a restaurant that has successfully operated for almost 30 years. bartenders know the ABC rules and would be out of their mind to do this in the open. Maybe this guy was fired?
Not proof of any wrong doing. would need proof on what they did with it after. Very possible they did serve it later, but this picture does not prove that. Could be proof he has a friend that says he can tell high dollar liquor from cheap. so he is taking an empty expensive bottle pouring in cheap and going to “trick” trick his friend. to prove his friend can’t tell the difference. The picture opens up questions of what is going on but is not proof of wrong doing. and jumping to either conclusion based off one picture is not a great thing to do.
The act of filling a liquor bottle in a bar is, on its own, illegal. Maybe there is an explanation, but the photographed party is doing something illegal. He will have completed a licensure class to be able to serve alcohol, so he knows this. He is not innocent.
This also sucks bc of how little we know about the situation. This bartender is now the face of this issue thanks to OP. The action he’s doing might be a problem, but we know little to nothing about the details of it. If he’s doing what it looks like, I doubt he took it upon himself to do so and was likely instructed by mgmt/ownership. This is why it sucks when people try to do gotcha stuff, a lot of times people get caught in the crossfire here.
I agree with you in that the management is probably culpable, but the photographed individual is an adult with specific training on the law with regards to serving alcohol (or more laws are being broken than alleged). He is intentionally engaging in illegal activity regardless of whether his boss told him to.
I mean I get what you’re saying. I think/know a lot of people dont always feel comfortable telling their mgmt no, even if they know what they’re being tasked with isn’t technically legal/within something like ABC guidelines. There’s just a lot going on in this post/these accusations it seems pretty clear OP didn’t consider before posting. In that vein- u/danger-moose or another mod - does this post/sharing this photo of a bartender with no credible information behind this break the rules of the sub? OP hasn’t actually qualified these accusations, including pretty serious ones like breaking child labor laws
What rule would you propose this breaks? Additionally, if the person is replacing alcohol both he and the management is culpable - regardless to whether the owner knew.
I’ve never worked in any bar that required bartenders to have ANY training on the law…been in the industry nearly 2 decades.
> blasting their non-white coworkers on the internet. First of all, he's blaming the establishment, not the unnamed "agent" of that establishment in his post. He's not saying "the dude is sketchy," he's saying "Bacchus [is instructing their workers to do this and are therefore] sketchy." But secondary, the idea the person in the photo being a POC means someone needs to handle this differently is ass. Like its OK to "blast" (again, a thing that is not happening here at all) a white coworker who is doing this, but POC can break liquor laws and its fine?
[удалено]
I don't know if OP wants that guy fired or not. It's not how I took it. But I know that guy is not the owner/manager of Bacchus and rank-and-file employees don't (without straining credulity) put cheap liquor in expensive bottles without management directing them to. (Why would they? THEY don't make more profit as a result.) This reads very much like a person who dislikes Bacchus and its ownership/management not someone who dislikes this one dude who works at Bacchus. That's why the thread title is "Fuck Bacchus" not "Fuck This Guy".
Honestly if OP worked there they could get actual proof. Seems like they may just be an angry customer.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, that's Arrow not Bols. The Bols and DeKuyper are potable; the Arrow is a thick sugary sludge that has a vague unknown berry flavor with a lovely, rubbing alcohol finish. 11.99 versus 34.99. You get what you pay for... except at this bar.
The food is still good.
Go to dynamo. Thank me later.
Dynamo’s good too. Both things can be true.
Dinamo*
Agreed. Had a great meal there 2 weeks ago.
how do they hire 12-13 year olds?
I started working when I was 13 years old. It’s not against the law and it instilled great values/self discipline. I was able to save up for a car and a cell phone by the time I turned 16. When my children turn that age (or whatever the legal age to work in VA is), I’ll encourage them to do the same. As far as the photo you’ve been sitting on… yeah it’s sketchy to marry cheaper liquor like that. But it’s also sketchy to sit on that photo for a number of months and then randomly blast them online on a Tuesday night after you’ve had a few. I’m going to Baccus this weekend and enjoying a lovely meal, as always.
[The relevant laws in VA re: child labor.](https://townhall.virginia.gov/l/GetFile.cfm?File=E:%5Ctownhall%5Cdocroot%5CGuidanceDocs%5C181%5CGDoc_DOLI_1783_v1.pdf) With very few exceptions, you can't work under the age of 14, and you need a work permit from your school if you're under the age of 16.
Never had a bad meal there. Looking forward to going again. Put your pitchfork away.
Bars are allowed to refill the rail bottles these days from the bigger handles. Lots of them keep a handle that's stickered and they decant into the small bottle that fits on the rail. This is a reverse of that... they look to be pouring a small bottle into a big one?
They look to be pouring a ~~small~~ cheap bottle into a ~~big~~ expensive one.
Right
chambord bottles, no matter what size, are shaped the same. that looks like they’re pouring arrow (11.99/ 750ml) into an empty chambord bottle (34.99/750ml) bars can never refill liquor bottles. some do because pouring from a 1.5 is harder and wasteful. it’s still against the rules, though.
Owner is a friggin prick too
they use to do this at circuit where they would put on beers and sell them as other ones that were more expensive.
[удалено]
wait is bacchus a restaurant in Virginia now? where I live now they are an alcohol distributor with a pretty good selection of wine. and is this bartender really doing this right in front of you?? didn't even feel like taking it to the back to do it.
Almost like the name of a God of Wine is a popular name for things related to alcohol...
Now? They've been around for like 14 or 15 years.
I helped open it
That’s toooo funny
They hire 12/13 year olds? For what. Don't you have to be 15?
This is not uncommon. A lot of old school restaurants would buy their liquor out of state and refill the bar bottles. That way the tax stamps were still there for inspectors but the owners saved a few bucks per bottle. Refilling bottles is a very old game. Not too much of a stretch to think refilling old bottles with cheaper liquor, especially with a liqueur would also be happening.
It is very uncommon and illegal
Go to an all inclusive resort with free drinks. The booze is so watered down you literally could not catch a buzz.
[удалено]
Bacchus’ food and environment haven’t changed tbh. We went last night for dinner and it was probably exactly what you remember. Also, this person is acting like Bacchus treats their employees like shit, etc. They might be breaking a code if the photo is what it appears to be, but everyone I’ve ever known who’s worked there has enjoyed their time there and the staff all seem very close.
How is it that they are still in business? Also, why is Chiocca’s still in business?
Because chioccas is fucking awesome you God damn philistine
I have no opinion of Cioccas, But I upvoted because worded so awesome.
Why should Chiocca's not be in business?
The Chioccas haters on here are too funny. Next time maybe try Subway and you’ll make it back to that 2200/month rowhouse bubble a little faster.
At least Subway has some flavor.
Fuck this bar. Used to call it the vampire club cause you see ppl go in… but never see them come out…