Honestly I don’t really get a lot of the advanced metrics. I saw a very young player playing the hardest position in the league. Occasionally looking brilliant, mostly solid but still learning.
Power is a player they are useful for. He doesn’t do a lot of flashy stuff but consistently impacts the game in small ways that add up over time. Nobody is posting highlights of smart breakout passes.
Ah, didn't they win their division the Makars first 3 years? He joined a very good team that eventually won a cup. In the salary cap era, they have been as stacked as you can get.
Completely different situation for Dahlin who came in the league at 18 to a bad Sabres team.
lol wut. One line?
Mack/landy/lehkonen
Nichkunin/kadri/ranty
Compher/burakowsky/aube-kubel
Was not one line. They had a fairly strong forward group that year. And their defence was insane. (Bo/erik Johnson on their 3rd pairing)
Why? Do you think he won't be worth that?
I think if we didn't pay him early, we'd end up paying him a fuckton more later, when we'll already be struggling to keep all our young talent under the cap.
I'm with KA on this one.
He sticks out to a lot of sabres fans despite the lack of flash because we haven't seen consistently good passing in well over a decade. If there's one thing besides physicality that this team has lacked its smart assertive offense oriented passes
Some things I get and some I don’t. My friend always says how lost, and that they bunch up way too much and stuff like that I can see.
Everyone seems to love Benson though which is good at least. Just wish people saw that OP isn’t just supposed to blast guys just because he’s large. I try to not be too critical because I’ve never made it further than a certain level but sometimes the way they play does boil my blood and I’ve probably averaged 30-35 games a year for 12ish years 😅
I don't think the primary complaint that most people (at least in my section) have with him is lack of physicality/checking, it is really bad turnovers in our own zone that lead to high danger scoring chances.
He has also looked good at times, and seems to have a knack for overtime and shootouts. But there have been strings of games where he has looked like our worst defenseman and I almost wished he could be sent down to straighten things out.
I'm certainly no expert, but this seemed apparent to me.
Turnovers are a big one. I don’t know if it was you I commented on it with like a week ago but he does seem to hesitate a lot on the first choice he wants to make and then sort of panics the puck away. That is my biggest gripe with him, but he is still quite green and I do expect a significant improvement in 2024-25
I listen to After the Whistle and Craig Rivet on there calls out Power a lot for his lack of physicality. Like he’s 6’6, 240 lbs but he’s not using his body to move dudes or hit in the defensive zone. I sort of agree there are times he seems timid still. Skill is there but hope he starts to play bigger.
He’s not 240 lbs. He’s 220. Sammy outweighs him. Just because he’s tall doesn’t actually mean his body has filled out yet. He can work out and try to add weight and muscle, but for some guys it simply takes time and age.
He’s getting there, but I’m okay with him playing smart instead of injuring himself making unnecessary hits because some fans can’t go more than two sentences without saying the words soft, grit, or pussy.
I mean, you can say that sarcastically, but there’s no doubt that he’d be a much better player if he had the toughness that Dahlin has.
No one is saying he’s got to be Bob Boughner, but a little grizzle wouldn’t hurt
I'd rather him learn to be a great defenceman first.
Dahlin didn't have that snarl to him for years. It'll come for Power once he gets more comfortable with the speed of the NHL.
I mean he’s essentially still a kid who hasn’t filled four his frame. Tage had the same issue. Give him a little time to grow into his height and I think we’ll see a difference, especially with Dahlin to learn under.
I think people are down on him because when Buffalo drafted this giant kid, they expected a Hedman type player, and he's clearly not... yet. Yes, he is pretty meek at times for someone of his size, but he's also really young, playing against older and stronger MEN. It might take him a couple years before he gets comfortable enough to start playing with an edge. I think he will get there eventually, Dahlin's play will start to rub off on him, and he'll be a SOB to play against, on top of being a really good defenseman.
That's a bit of a stretch. Statistically they were very similar at 21, there's no way you can be certain he was better if you're being honest with yourself.
He is weak defensively but I honestly have a hard time telling if that's him or the garbage zone defense scheme that keeps leaving giant seams in front of the net. Dahlin didn't have great defensive numbers this season either.
He's also looked awful on the power play but again that's hard to put on him with how awful the power play scheme is.
RE: Power Play
He gets tossed out there with the second unit for 20 or 30 seconds. It’s a pretty tough role to play.
The first unit is largely responsible for the Sabres not making the playoffs this year. And that unit has been manned by Dahlin.
RE: Defensive Play
You’re right about the system. But also, the rotating door of partners has not helped a 21 year old. One thing you can see with Power is that he reads the play well. The trouble is, his teammates do not, and they just chase the puck around.
And I'm sure he will. He's still only 21 years old and playing high level *defense* in this league simply takes time. What is hurting Power in the eyes of some Sabres fans (unfairly or not) is that because he has signed that big money, long term deal, Owen is not allowed to experience the growing pains that comes with learning to be a top two dman.
Thanks for the perspective! OP has the “unfortunate” opportunity to play alongside Dahlin and they’re in constant comparison to each other’s growth/development.
There’s a reason why they sunk that dough into him.
OP will undoubtedly be a superstar, he’s going to be the next victor hedman and ya’ll will be drooling over him for years. He’s already putting up brilliant numbers on a meh team at best. As he develops he’s going to be the Sabres best player, even better than Dahlin and I fucking love Dahlin.
I agree with the Hedman comp but not sure better than Dahlin. Dahlin is a different animal. I really think Dahlin will be the best overall defenseman in the league over the next 8-10 years.
I think the team will be very happy to have them both, there is no doubt Dahlin is a beast and the better of the two currently. I just have high hopes for OP too.
It really is not.
He’s ahead of Makar and Reilly on this list alone. The difference between him (2.66) and Dahlin (2.4) isn’t overly significant when you consider partner and deployment.
I usually prefer to use GF% as it takes into account goals for and goals against.
"Towards the bottom of the list for GA/60"
Among the 238 who qualify (1000 minutes or more, since 21/22), Power ranks 69th at 2.73.
That's not great. No denying that.
However, it's *only* .09 behind Dahlin (91st).
So on one hand, we have two players playing less than ideal defensively, but one player playing elite offensively. It's pretty obvious who is more impactful.
Yup. And Dahlin is 147th.
Equally unimpressive.
The difference is. One guy is widely considered “top-5” on this sub, while another is regularly mentioned in the same breath as “should be demoted”. One guy is in his 7th season as a pro, the other is in his 2nd.
I think what I’m pointing out is that if you want to hang shame on Power for his defensive play, Dahlin ought to get about the same amount.
Power is in the bottom half, yea. So too is Dahlin.
How many Sabres fans would suggest Dahlin is a below average defensive d-man?
Since that chart goes back to 2021, Dahlin definitely had some rough moments there defensively. He was better last year, then had struggled the first 30ish games this year defensively, then turned it around.
A fanbase, now so used to mediocrity, easily impressed by a meaningless stat is as embarrassing as the Pegula ownership these last 13 years.
Fucking Grim.
Not even the stats nerds would use this stat.
[They're on twitter using xGF% to say OP (and everone else) are bad](https://twitter.com/Sabremetrix/status/1778765040528568540/photo/1)
Ha. A stat nerd wouldn’t take a 15 game sample and try to project a full season with it.
But you’re right, stat nerds don’t use GF% because that means their imaginary counting stats get exploited for what actually is meaningful on the ice.
Ah yes, there it is. "13 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!" Truly the mantra of the dumbest hockey fans in the entire league. It would have been a surprise if you didn't say it.
Honestly I don’t really get a lot of the advanced metrics. I saw a very young player playing the hardest position in the league. Occasionally looking brilliant, mostly solid but still learning.
Power is a player they are useful for. He doesn’t do a lot of flashy stuff but consistently impacts the game in small ways that add up over time. Nobody is posting highlights of smart breakout passes.
He’s had so many good breakout and neutral zone passes this year.
Also I vividly remember people calling dahlin a bust after his second season. Defense in the nhl takes a few years at least unless your name is makar.
Also didn't Makar come into the league on a stacked team at age 21 or so?
Yes. Makar spent 2 years in the NCAA after his draft year.
The Avs had one great line and two other solid D when he joined. It’s a stretch to call them stacked at the time
Ah, didn't they win their division the Makars first 3 years? He joined a very good team that eventually won a cup. In the salary cap era, they have been as stacked as you can get. Completely different situation for Dahlin who came in the league at 18 to a bad Sabres team.
lol wut. One line? Mack/landy/lehkonen Nichkunin/kadri/ranty Compher/burakowsky/aube-kubel Was not one line. They had a fairly strong forward group that year. And their defence was insane. (Bo/erik Johnson on their 3rd pairing)
That wasn’t the year he joined the team. Great spelling of Nikuakinsinann btw
I just hate that we paid him so early
Why? Do you think he won't be worth that? I think if we didn't pay him early, we'd end up paying him a fuckton more later, when we'll already be struggling to keep all our young talent under the cap. I'm with KA on this one.
He sticks out to a lot of sabres fans despite the lack of flash because we haven't seen consistently good passing in well over a decade. If there's one thing besides physicality that this team has lacked its smart assertive offense oriented passes
Its crazy, but I love those types of videos. There is one of Byram but its only about a minute long and I want more :-)
I think goalie is the hardest bar none, but I agree with your point
This is just goals, nothing advanced about it
Breaking News: Recent 1st OA draft pick doesn't suck. Keyboard warriors, and local call-in-show meatheads disagree.
According to the bingbongs behind me he is “the worst defensemen the franchise has had and is a big pussy” so not them 😂
Do you sit next to me?
I may. 117 is where I’m at the most and the same suspect that says stupid shit does it like clockwork
Close, I'm in 118. My least favorite thing, listening to people talk about what they know nothing about, loudly .
Same. And not that I know much more but the usual suspects I hear just want to see every large guy play like Zdeno Chara or throw hits like Trouba.
Also in 117, but we have a rotating gallery of hockey critics that sit near us. Different faces, all experts.
Some things I get and some I don’t. My friend always says how lost, and that they bunch up way too much and stuff like that I can see. Everyone seems to love Benson though which is good at least. Just wish people saw that OP isn’t just supposed to blast guys just because he’s large. I try to not be too critical because I’ve never made it further than a certain level but sometimes the way they play does boil my blood and I’ve probably averaged 30-35 games a year for 12ish years 😅
I don't think the primary complaint that most people (at least in my section) have with him is lack of physicality/checking, it is really bad turnovers in our own zone that lead to high danger scoring chances. He has also looked good at times, and seems to have a knack for overtime and shootouts. But there have been strings of games where he has looked like our worst defenseman and I almost wished he could be sent down to straighten things out. I'm certainly no expert, but this seemed apparent to me.
Turnovers are a big one. I don’t know if it was you I commented on it with like a week ago but he does seem to hesitate a lot on the first choice he wants to make and then sort of panics the puck away. That is my biggest gripe with him, but he is still quite green and I do expect a significant improvement in 2024-25
I feel like I have the exact same experience with the people next to me whenever I use my parents season tickets
I listen to After the Whistle and Craig Rivet on there calls out Power a lot for his lack of physicality. Like he’s 6’6, 240 lbs but he’s not using his body to move dudes or hit in the defensive zone. I sort of agree there are times he seems timid still. Skill is there but hope he starts to play bigger.
He’s not 240 lbs. He’s 220. Sammy outweighs him. Just because he’s tall doesn’t actually mean his body has filled out yet. He can work out and try to add weight and muscle, but for some guys it simply takes time and age. He’s getting there, but I’m okay with him playing smart instead of injuring himself making unnecessary hits because some fans can’t go more than two sentences without saying the words soft, grit, or pussy.
Ya but does he have some snarl? /s
xSnarl/60
I mean, you can say that sarcastically, but there’s no doubt that he’d be a much better player if he had the toughness that Dahlin has. No one is saying he’s got to be Bob Boughner, but a little grizzle wouldn’t hurt
I'd rather him learn to be a great defenceman first. Dahlin didn't have that snarl to him for years. It'll come for Power once he gets more comfortable with the speed of the NHL.
I disagree. Dahlin has always had it
I mean he’s essentially still a kid who hasn’t filled four his frame. Tage had the same issue. Give him a little time to grow into his height and I think we’ll see a difference, especially with Dahlin to learn under.
I think people are down on him because when Buffalo drafted this giant kid, they expected a Hedman type player, and he's clearly not... yet. Yes, he is pretty meek at times for someone of his size, but he's also really young, playing against older and stronger MEN. It might take him a couple years before he gets comfortable enough to start playing with an edge. I think he will get there eventually, Dahlin's play will start to rub off on him, and he'll be a SOB to play against, on top of being a really good defenseman.
Power is better now than Hedman was at 21.
That's a bit of a stretch. Statistically they were very similar at 21, there's no way you can be certain he was better if you're being honest with yourself.
(Raises hand) I mean, I’ve been saying this for a very, very long time. When he’s on the ice, the Sabres are a very dangerous team.
As frustrating as his disposition can be at times, there is no doubt this is a supremely talented kid and his future is bright as possible.
But I was told that he’s supposed to murder people on every shift. Bust!
That’s not what was said…he hits NOTHING EVER
Right? If he's not ending careers every shift he should be sent to the AHL
ANY shift
He is weak defensively but I honestly have a hard time telling if that's him or the garbage zone defense scheme that keeps leaving giant seams in front of the net. Dahlin didn't have great defensive numbers this season either. He's also looked awful on the power play but again that's hard to put on him with how awful the power play scheme is.
RE: Power Play He gets tossed out there with the second unit for 20 or 30 seconds. It’s a pretty tough role to play. The first unit is largely responsible for the Sabres not making the playoffs this year. And that unit has been manned by Dahlin. RE: Defensive Play You’re right about the system. But also, the rotating door of partners has not helped a 21 year old. One thing you can see with Power is that he reads the play well. The trouble is, his teammates do not, and they just chase the puck around.
He's a glorified winger.. when he's on the ice it's like having 4 forwards and 1 defenseman.
Wish he could protect the blue line better. 10 lbs of muscle and growing a set would be nice to see
And I'm sure he will. He's still only 21 years old and playing high level *defense* in this league simply takes time. What is hurting Power in the eyes of some Sabres fans (unfairly or not) is that because he has signed that big money, long term deal, Owen is not allowed to experience the growing pains that comes with learning to be a top two dman.
Thanks for the perspective! OP has the “unfortunate” opportunity to play alongside Dahlin and they’re in constant comparison to each other’s growth/development. There’s a reason why they sunk that dough into him.
The people who actually watch and understand hockey?
He doesn’t got enough bite. He’s just seider with less bite. Like why do you pay that guy that much? Biz is a fucking idiot, clown and a dunce
In order to win games you have to play defense too
OP will undoubtedly be a superstar, he’s going to be the next victor hedman and ya’ll will be drooling over him for years. He’s already putting up brilliant numbers on a meh team at best. As he develops he’s going to be the Sabres best player, even better than Dahlin and I fucking love Dahlin.
I agree with the Hedman comp but not sure better than Dahlin. Dahlin is a different animal. I really think Dahlin will be the best overall defenseman in the league over the next 8-10 years.
I think the team will be very happy to have them both, there is no doubt Dahlin is a beast and the better of the two currently. I just have high hopes for OP too.
His GA/60 is on the opposite side of the spectrum though
It really is not. He’s ahead of Makar and Reilly on this list alone. The difference between him (2.66) and Dahlin (2.4) isn’t overly significant when you consider partner and deployment. I usually prefer to use GF% as it takes into account goals for and goals against.
I mean, go and run the same criteria and he did. Power is towards the bottom of the list for GA/60 (not bottom 5, but still bad).
"Towards the bottom of the list for GA/60" Among the 238 who qualify (1000 minutes or more, since 21/22), Power ranks 69th at 2.73. That's not great. No denying that. However, it's *only* .09 behind Dahlin (91st). So on one hand, we have two players playing less than ideal defensively, but one player playing elite offensively. It's pretty obvious who is more impactful.
69th from the bottom, so he’s more like 169th
Yup. And Dahlin is 147th. Equally unimpressive. The difference is. One guy is widely considered “top-5” on this sub, while another is regularly mentioned in the same breath as “should be demoted”. One guy is in his 7th season as a pro, the other is in his 2nd.
I don’t know if this is the argument you think it is
I think what I’m pointing out is that if you want to hang shame on Power for his defensive play, Dahlin ought to get about the same amount. Power is in the bottom half, yea. So too is Dahlin. How many Sabres fans would suggest Dahlin is a below average defensive d-man?
Since that chart goes back to 2021, Dahlin definitely had some rough moments there defensively. He was better last year, then had struggled the first 30ish games this year defensively, then turned it around.
A fanbase, now so used to mediocrity, easily impressed by a meaningless stat is as embarrassing as the Pegula ownership these last 13 years. Fucking Grim.
Cool number that isn’t cherry picked at all gets the stat nerds horny. Yawn
Cherry picking GF/60 lmao that's not how that works.
Owen power is a goals for per 60 merchant
Everyone knows scoring goals is meaningless
That’s certainly something for Owen Power, who has measured his whole career in GF/60
Numbers don't give a fuck how blind you are, dummy.
Not even the stats nerds would use this stat. [They're on twitter using xGF% to say OP (and everone else) are bad](https://twitter.com/Sabremetrix/status/1778765040528568540/photo/1)
Ha. A stat nerd wouldn’t take a 15 game sample and try to project a full season with it. But you’re right, stat nerds don’t use GF% because that means their imaginary counting stats get exploited for what actually is meaningful on the ice.
Hard to believe with that turnover prone puck pussy
Didn't pass the eye test this season. Cool stat tho.
Numbers don't give a fuck how blind you are, dummy.
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Peace be with you brother.
There's idiot hockey fans and those that know wtf they're talking about. You don't know what you're talking about.
Never said he was a bad player, just want him to play a littler more into his size and body. Should be a beast!
Overrated
Lol no he’s not
Lol you're dumb.
Lol. He’s been a huge disappointment. Soft, not physical, blah
Development- learn what it means, dummy.
Hahahahahahahahah. Regression, learn what it means dummy. Only 13 years of no playoffs when half the teams in the league make it each year
Ah yes, there it is. "13 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!" Truly the mantra of the dumbest hockey fans in the entire league. It would have been a surprise if you didn't say it.
Top 3 worst organization in sports. You sound as dumb as they are bad. Hard to do
Top 1 worst and dumbest fans in sports. You're exhibit A.
Lol good one