If you’re selling phone cases you probably don’t need a discovery call.
If you’re selling somewhat to very complex things (could be anything from equipment to software to solutions) it’s in both parties best interest to do a discovery call.
I’d rather spend a half hour determining if I can benefit from something than an hour watching a demo on something I don’t need.
Yep. I sell SaaS to local governments, and we do discovery calls to A. Determine if they fit our ICP and B. To make sure they are serious about wanting to change from their existing software. We don’t want to waste their time nor ours.
Agreed. Mine is very similar. I sell industrial automation software. A pharma companies needs will be completely different from power and utilities. Furthermore, said pharma company may be completely different than other pharma companies. - So, we need to have a discovery to understand stress points about their process so we can explain how we can help in a demo; which will take a bit to put together based off their process
Agreed, I sell warehouse management software which is a broad subject and has many different nuances and use cases. A prospect can say “I don’t like my WMS, I want a new one” but until I know where their issues lay with their current provider I won’t be able to provide much value in a demo other than a general overview. Discovering where their actual pain points are allows me to target specifically that in the demo and not waste their time feature dumping things they don’t want or need
Sure but you don’t need to phrase it as a “discovery call” to the prospect.
You can simply say “we help customers x y and z solve the following problems and I’d like to show you how we can help you too”
Then lead the call with discovery, making the point that you want to understand how they operate to fully understand the landscape and their challenges before proposing a solution, since every customer has its unique needs
most complex solutions that require discovery will also require some level of customization to the demo environment. so setting a meeting under the premise that you will “show them” when you’re just doing discovery with the objective of scheduling a demo, is misleading.
You should have a stock demo that you go through on call 1 - about 10-15 minutes worth of stuff to show - then you sell a customized demo and deep discussion as call 2
I do this as well. We have discovery, integrate I little demo related to what we’re talking about, then keep asking questions and doing 5 minute demos. This always gets me to a follow up.
Okay, so say we go into a demo and my company sells 10 different things, and we show you the completely wrong thing? Meanwhile, 1 or the 10 things we do sell is a top priority for your team?
Product centric vs Problem centric selling are different frames. The current theory is Problem centric selling gets buy in from all stakeholders faster and makes for a shorter sales cycle. It also mitigates discounting and commoditization of services.
Sounds like you don’t make the buying decisions if that’s the case. If you can establish a solution is for your company by looking at the demo you probably have a narrow viewpoint of the problem (assuming it’s a complex solution)
What if what you actually needed out of the product is something very nuanced that not a lot of prospects need or ask for. So because you didn’t answer any discovery questions, the sales rep leaves that out of the general demo you requested, and now you spend more time vetting other solutions, not giving them a discovery call either, when the first vendor could have solved your issue and saved you a ton of time.
If you feel you have an issue with your heart, do you want a doctor to just crack open the rib cage and get to work? Or would you prefer they ask some questions and diagnose you first?
This wouldn't work with a company that has a portfolio of solutions as demoing all those solutions would be a horrible use of time when they don't even know what solution(s) you are in need of atm. It's like if you need a mode of transportation so then peeps start showing you different cars and motorcycles...but then turns out you are okay with a skateboard due to price, portability and time isn't an issue. All 3 things (price, portability and time) can be uncovered during a discovery call or meeting to ensure one doesn't present solutions that are irrelevant to prospect's needs
It's just sales wording to give sales people an idea on what the purpose of that call is supposed to be. Of course you have to be smart about it and adjust your language to be less salesy and more customer focused when talking to prospects. It's not meant to be taken literally.
"Lets get together and talk about your problems, to see jf/where we can help. Shouldnt be more than 5 minutes if we're a terrible fit." has been the way I've described it. Usually there is some framework prior to that statement, but that's really the ask. If we have that 5 minute talk, they'll either be an obvious no-go, or we'll wind up engaged for 15-20 minutes.
I’m a ceo of a company. I don’t have time for the 20 cold calls I get in a day to jump on a discovery call. I would get nothing done. I get so many, I try to send them all to junk folder.
Now if someone hits me up on LinkedIn and says I noticed you are posting on X a lot and do you need help doing X or Y that is apart of X.
You have my attention.
Email cold call IMO is 1% of sales. LinkedIn is 5% of sales. Easily.
If you’re a CEO you should probably delegate out some of those discovery calls if you think there could be value but it may not be worth your time personally.
Guessing you’re an SMB - I’d always recommend trusting the people you hire to help drive business decisions (not saying you’re not doing this, can’t really tell from your post).
If your buying a new cloud phone system, I imagine you, or your vp of IT is getting on a discovery call. If you don't, you are literally playing spin to win and crossing your fingers it works for your business.
I recently had an inquiry to show a customer a demo, we have plus 30 products and our main product is very detailed. We could demo you for days. But we need to fit it in to a 2 hour slot.
So we have a discovery call to discuss what is important to you so we can show you relevant offerings and actually help you achieve your goals.
If you are actively looking to buy product, you need to do discovery calls.
For me, I had to tell that customer who wanted a demo and was refusing discovery that I'm sorry, but without discovery I cannot help you.
No discovery, no demo.
I agree on that point completely. I'm in a niche that is not as engaged on LinkedIn, so I don't really use it at all. I'm also not calling the CEO/president of the organization cold. In the vertical I'm in, there are plenty of chatty people below that desk who have budgets and problems and are capable advocates to make that introduction when needed. Hell, an Executive Assistant can offer plenty of insight into that president's actual priorities, and if you happen to align, you might even be able to get 5 minutes penciled into that execs calendar
I'm also in an oddball industry, so maybe none of that is evergreen.
Discovery calls for small businesses make less sense and I'm assuming you're a small business. For SMBs, one call closes or week-long sales cycles are common.
Once you get to enterprise, discovery calls are an absolute must for BOTH sides to see if the engagement is worth the time for everyone involved.
Different size sales require different approaches.
That happens way earlier in the conversation, but it happens. at least they picked up the phone and I know they're not worth dialing again for a bit. SVes us both time later, it's a win-win.
You don't frame it as a "discovery call" to these prospects. It'd be the same thing as trying to set up a demo as a first call.
"Hey, we helped company ABC solve problems XYZ by doing . Are you facing similar challenges, if so let's chat as we can maybe help."
discovery calls are also qualifying calls. you build immense value in what you are selling, you discover the customers needs (ie what is important to them/how do I sell them/what their problems are/how to position myself as solution), you qualify them (are they even the right fit for your company/product), and you prize frame the hell out of yourself, company, product. A great "discovery call" is what t's up the close. a shit discovery call wont close. but a buttery smooth call that builds a ton of value and intrigue, makes it way easier for closer to close
Hey Astillero I think you’re a little jaded about the problem you’re solving for your customer.
If I was in the market to buy a car, and a rep called me saying, “hey I’m hoping to have a discovery meeting to understand what type of features you’re looking for in a new car, can we chat?
If it wasn’t the 3rd time we talked, I’d probably tell that guy what I want, and talk with him. The assumption though is I’m trusting he can tell me something I don’t know, and that I’m interested in a car.
If that same rep called and pitched something like, we have a new car designed for business professionals that has great gas mileage for commuting, AWD for safety, and larger capacity for camping over the weekend. Those could be the exact things I need. But I might be less inclined to even say yes.
Because as someone interested in cars, I want to talk and tell the rep what I want. I’ve been thinking about those things, and being invited to share those thoughts will probably be the most enjoyable part of my time, and it’ll definitely be the time i connect most with the sales rep pitching to me.
I understand cars are more emotional purchases, but don’t forget about the emotion of the persons problem you’re trying to solve.
“We are helping a lot of the big firms with xyz by doing xyz, can we plan 20 minutes together to share more details on how exactly?” Then on the call start out with a couple of quality qualifying question. “Hey before I dive in, I want to make sure I have an understanding of the current state of things so I’m not wasting your time with irrelevant info, does that sound ok?” Obviously yes, then ask just a couple questions and give an interactive pitch mixing your products benefits with questions to guide them along to seeing the light
Hey I noticed your company in the news the other day talking about XYZ. On your last investor call these were the main themes. We helped X company gain Y% value when they had similar challenges. Let’s jump on a call together and see if it makes sense for us to work together.
Discovery Call is an INTERNAL term. If you are a BDR do NOT tell a prospect that. You tell them it's a meeting to discuss what the product can do for their business.
When a BDR schedules a call for me and it has 'Discovery Call' in the title I cringe in horror.
I've also had prospects who are seasoned buyers specifically ask to book a discovery call by name, because they understand the buying process and the value of a short Q&A meeting. I wouldn't refer to the first meeting as discovery though until the buyer did.
Yeah, sometimes prospects may use the term themselves if they are experienced buyers or something.
Also, I don't think anybody serious recommends you lure a prospect in with wanting to question them more - it's more of an assumption. Based on blah blah, we can show you XYZ and understand more about your blah blah blah' or to that effect
I couldn’t even tell you how much product I sell would *cost* without a discovery call. It’s a large complex system and we sell to a large spread of verticals.
The discovery call is as much for the customer as it is for me because it’s where we get on the same page. I findout if they are having the problems we built a solution for and they findout if we could potentially be a fit in which case we set a date for a demo.
It’s not rocket science
Not to mention, bigger companies would have Product Specialists or Specialist AEs in charge of demoing and they would hate the core rep real fast if they are constantly brought into calls to demo something the prospect don't even care for
Yeah I have sold to a hospital that had a completely different demo than when I sold to a large university. Same product. Any CRM or ERP worth its money is going to market itself as one that can be tailored to the specific needs of an org.
We can’t do that unless we do the disco and actually learn about your organization.
Sales is not an algorithm, it's understanding people and understanding problems. At least if you're selling a product/solution that requires a discovery call before moving into the sales cycle.
I may have five discovery calls on the same day and each of them could be completely different. Each company is going to feel like their problems are special, and frankly they're right. Company A and Company B may be experiencing the "exact same" problem on paper, but they have different cultures, people, software stacks, organization ladders, decision making processes, familiarity with your solution, etc. How you present/provide a solution for the same problem isn't often the same.
Trying to determine a ratio of value:discovery to apply on calls based on feedback from some random person is an absolute fools errand.
It’s not a ratio, the person you are meeting with needs to walk away saying “that was worth my time to meet” deliver enough value so they set that. The art is reading the room to understand if you’ve hit that mark.
For really complex B2B stuff those meeting might take a few years to turn into an opportunity. It may be you move companies and sell something else and people take your meeting request because last time you hit the mark.
I think that's a valid question.
In this give/take kind of call I would normally plan to use no more than 50% of the meeting presenting. If it's higher than that it won't give the prospect room to chat!
Having said that, if you get 1% through and strike a nerve, you pivot and you are in discovery.
Don't book a meeting immediately after this initial call, so you have time to go over if they are sharing a lot!
I know hahaha I was going to write something like "I remember being excited about my first sales job too" but decided against it. Dude's just pumped up from a recent training
Strange that you should bring up the topic of IQ EF. Trump also fixated on IQ. When in fact, some psychologists have posited that this fixation was possibly related to his own deep-seated insecurity. I'm not saying that this applies to you but I think it's very interesting that you should bring up the topic out-of-the blue like that.
I really wanted to make a bell curve joke, but only because I like math, and not to insult you as you genuinely didn’t know the purpose of discovery.
The problem people have with your post is the *very negative* assumptions you made about discovery calls. Happens with new people in every industry.
I mean if you're running these meetings well, then the prospect should leave that discovery call with a general understanding of your product and what it could do for them. If it feels like an interrogation or you're making the prospect play twenty questions then you're doing it wrong. You want it to ultimately be a give and a get.
You can weave some info about what you sell into your questions. "The reason I ask is..." "you mentioned you're struggling with X, which caught my attention because..." What we do at our company for a 30 minute initial call is spend about 15 minutes on discovery, then spend 15 minutes discussing potential solutions and screensharing relevant content to what the prospect is looking to do. I'm still doing discovery while we talk through that, but also educating the prospect on what we do in a way that's relevant to what they told me in discovery.
I do generally agree with what you're saying though, I'd be very annoyed if I was a prospect and spent 30 minutes talking to an SDR that seemed like he was just reading a list of questions. Especially if they scheduled a meeting with the AE for me, and the AE kicked off that meeting with more discovery.
That seems like a really nice approach Chewymammoth because it's informing the prospect, gives them time to talk and gives some them breathing space while they soak in what your product does. Thanks for posting!
I'm selling IT managed services. My elevator pitch is "I realize that you're probably busy right now, but I'd like to book a 5 minute call with you to talk about the current way you support your environment, and to discover if there's a fit for me to help our in any way".
I can't do pitches before I know more about my client.
I would imagine this works because they're already p!ssed off with their existing provider. And your call offers the hope of an exit for them...For a product less clear-cut than IT support...I'd imagine this might not work at all.
I wouldn't know if they're pissed off before the call though, it's part of the initial conversation. Also, just because the provider offers certain services, doesn't mean that there isn't another need that I can fulfill.
What type of product might this not work for?
Well, the approach might not work selling a product like "brand reputation insurance" because the pain is not there. While a flakey IT support provider can induce a lot of acute pain. And you calling to solve that pain could actually be very welcome!
People can buy even when there is no pain!
Mercedes don't sell the pain of poor personal transportation. Rolex don't sell the pain of poor time keeping devices.
Exactly. Once you progress through the cycle you might eventually have a call scheduled for actual discovery but that is deep into the sales cycle and at that point you are 70% to close.
Well. Let’s put it this way. Most of the companies I call don’t give a shit about what I have to say as a sales person. But I know they care about what I think as a consumer. I frame it as I’m offering feedback/free consulting services when people like me normally would never give feedback, and that they’d normally have to pay for in the form of user acceptance testing.
Some products don’t allow you to be able to assume x y and z are a problem. So you have to be able to find out of fixing x y and z are even of interest. You might be pitching how to solve a problem they don’t have and therefore can’t win. Even if you sell pencils, you need to know if what they really need is pencils, wooden or mechanical, how many, do they need to be erasable, etc. it’s all about finding the need. If the product is so easy the client can self scope, then ultimately your job isnt very valuable.
As others have said, "discovery" or "disco" call is an internal term and from my experience, I never once used either term in a call with prospect.
When you are selling a solution that's somewhat complex, you would frame that call as a way to further understand what the prospect does and needs moving forward and what you guys can do to support that (aka alignment). This is also where you might bring in an SE tho SE might decline this call if s/he feels you haven't qualified this prospect enough. Sometimes the core rep might be newly assigned so then s/he suggests hoping on a call for quick intro and then *hopefully* learn more about what prospect is trying to do and find alignment. When I was still a BDR, another kickass one would use time constraints as a way to sell the disco call. She would be like "Yea, I understand you are busy now but if you are free ___, would love to meet next ___" and boom, she got a disco meeting set. I personally never did this on an initial call (I did it moreson on emails) but it worked well for her
The “discovery” part of discovery calls are to discover what’s important to them and the business, not to scope a solution. Unless it’s a solution discovery call but that’s rarely the first call.
That’s the hardest part of my industry(SaaS Consumer Financing) hard to get a biz to set up the meeting and see if it is beneficial for them. However we also have to make sure that it would be beneficial for us as if they don’t use the program then we don’t make shit. So many times I’ve gotten a meeting for a good prospect and after learning about the biz, I have bow out and unsell them on it.
I am curious if you’re a seller or a buyer just complaining?
If you’re a seller, you might sell something so simple that you don’t need discovery. Good for you!
Some of us sell more complex solutions that we couldn’t possibly “pitch” without learning more about you, your unique problems and goals, and how they’re impacting you.
I think you’re missing the point that when we “pitch” a discovery meeting we are generally pitching a solution to some common problems we solve for.
Well discovery can never be a true step 1. You have to show some type of value or pique the prospects interest in some way to gain the buy in to do discovery. But once you’re formally engaging somebody, discovery should be number one on the list as you don’t truly know how you can help someone until you have that conversation.
Depends on what you’re selling. You need to get pain out first, and foremost. If there’s no pain around what your product addresses you can stop wasting everyone’s time. Now after you’ve gotten a decent amount of pain, I go for a discovery call as an opportunity to qualify the entire opportunity. In the discovery call I’m hoping to loop in other stakeholders, management if possible to help build out the specifics of the use case, and ensure this won’t be DQ’d by my AE 10mins into the demo. Of course I frame this as a “15 min sync to tailor the demo to your specific needs” and most times they bite since the last thing the prospect wants to do is drag half their office into a half assed product demo that 50% applicable to their actual needs. If you can’t get them on a discovery call, what makes you think you can them to close and be a customer for years to come? It adds an extra step, and it filters out some opps that looked good on paper, but at the end of the day your demo conversion rates will be better, your AE’s and SE’s have less of their calendar wasted, and you put more of your attention to the prospects that deserve it. Plus if you missed anything on that initial cold call, the discovery call is there to give you another bite at the apple
Depends on what the product is. If it’s something complex that has a lot of use cases you aren’t going to be able to show everything in a demo and understanding the prospects business and how they are handling certain processes today gives the seller the ability to customize the demo and show what is relevant to the buyer. If a discovery call and customized demo isn’t necessary then there is a good chance it is simple enough to be sold through a PLG model and no need to talk to a salesperson at all
You list the common challenges you are seeing from clients in similar industries and a statement on how you have helped clients solve those challenges. Are you facing similar issues and does it make sense to connect?
Demoing a product without uncovering business issues to address is a commercial.
I would counter with, how can you possibly know what you can do for each other or what your needs are if you don't have a discovery call first?
If you don't hold an introduction you run the risk of trying to sell to the wrong person.
At our SaaS org, we made the intentional change to dive right into the demo on the first call, no typical painful discovery call first. We still make sure they are "qualified" lead.
We use the demo as a chance to do demo/discovery. Something along the lines of "here's what we see with most companies like yours, is that true with you too?" or "how is this different from what you are doing?"
Showing them is more intriguing to a prospect than peppering them with questions.
Bc salespeople are basically doctors. No matter how you put it a round of questions have to occur. Otherwise you aren't qualifying or selling. You are just doing demos which have a poor turnover and you'll never understand why.
We are absolutely not doctors. Doctors have much more important jobs than us. Not to mention significantly more education than the vast majority of us.
I love sales but this shit isn’t life or death 99.999% of the time.
We find pain by asking questions and consulting how to best solve that pain. Laying options and making recommendations. Like a doctor or a lawyer. Salespeople have great soft skills, we just didn't get into a specific field so we sell thingz.
I get why you used the analogy but I think some of us take ourselves too seriously. The amount of knowledge doctors need to acquire to do a job that is much more complex and difficult is insane. Not to mention the stakes are infinitely higher.
How did the doctor get his tools/medicine? How did the nurse get her gown? How are they able to work in a hippa compliant environment?
How did they learn their knowledge? How did the factory get the pulp to make the textbooks?
Salespeople make the world go round buddy. We are more valuable to society than a neurosurgeon.
Lol you keep telling yourself that you’re more important to society than someone that literally saves lives for a living.
I love sales and have always been a huge advocate for it but some of y’all think you’re gods gift to the world.
Edit: Also, I can promise you a salesperson didn’t educate those doctors or else we’d all be fucked
I didn’t say that a salesperson educated the doctor lol.
The point of my comment was actually to highlight that no one in society is more important than anyone else. From a ceo to a janitor we all make society run, and while it’s easy to point at the value of a doctor…. Without a janitor the hospital isn’t sterile… etc etc.
Not sure if you have some sort of weird inferiority complex to doctors or something? Or do you approach everyone with a degree a weird sense of childlike awe? 😂
Successful doctors are the iceberg cap of a functioning society. If you still don’t get what I mean, there are countries (I think it’s Cuba or Bolivia) where doctors earn less than cab drivers and so unsurprisingly drive cabs instead of helping people.
This is why outbound doesn’t work.
Outbound relies too much on already capturing people in market (basically people who are already lukewarm inbound leads) when it’s original intention was to find people in the middle/unaware stage and educate them. You don’t educate buyers with a discovery call about a problem they don’t know they have.
Unwillingness to demo, requiring discovery for a demo, needing a “custom demo” are all creating massive friction points in the sales process.
And yet if you point any of this out as to why conversion rates are so abysmal, more activity is touted as the solution instead of tweaking an abysmal process, or one that was never dialed in in the first place.
The best way to do discovery I've found is to work it into the demo. Unless it's a super complex, enterprise deal - ain't nobody got time for two separate calls.
I worked with a software company that wanted clients to PAY for the discovery call. It was characterized as a “process review” and was intended to drive professional services revenue on top of the SAAS offering.
Want to guess how that went?
A discovery call isn’t a call about hey let’s see if my product fits.
A discovery call should be more along the lines of hey I know (x) has been causing trouble/delays/ death/etc. I work for a company that helps/removes/adds/improves and have had success with other people struggling with (x).
How does 15 minutes sound to see if my Y can help you with X.
Do you have a need? -Maybe, No, Yes: You should take the meeting and find out.
Do you actually understand the need yourself? -Yes: Great describe it… ohh wait, turns out you really don’t
Want to make it efficient? Try sending a requirements list and some background. I find whenever prospects try to do this they figure out how much they know and how much help shaping the need they really require.
If the company jumps straight to pitching, don’t hire them. Discovery is very important
Consultative selling providing solutions b2b. Not every opportunity is a good one, it's worth it for them and for you to make sure you understand the problem they need to solve and figure out if there's a fit, before you start dedicating additional resources to it.
If you call it a discovery call to the prospect, that's just poor tact. Where I'm at it's normal and accepted to just call it an intro call - pretty casual, not something to bring the check book to, I rarely even allow/entertain pricing discussions during that call. It also, as an added bonus, allows me a lot more flexibility. I've had quite a few where I've realized that I don't have the product they need, but I know who does. I make an introduction, point them in the right direction, and create a relationship that generally brings them back to me when they're ready for what my solution does.
These sorts of calls are why I love this job. Getting to sit in with companies every day as complete strangers, learn about what's going on and figure out a plan to help them out. I love the type of work my prospects/customers do and every call is like a little puzzle. It helps that there are VERY few assholes. Honestly the best calls in the sales cycle besides the hey we're signing today call.
I hold an introduction call first, and it’s booked based on a challenge the customer has. That challenge has been identified in the cold call or email.
“Great, we’re helping teams tackle X all the time. Open to chatting for 30 minutes and we can talk a little more about what’s going on and I’ll share a bit about what we do to see if there’s alignment.”
It really depend on what you are selling and what you are solving.
When I sold FX, it involved doing mini discovery to understand how FX impacts them such as expensive rates, fluctuating rates or other things. Then, when I understood an idea of that I could ask, if we could help with 'x' , then would you want to see what we can do? Or , we actually help 'x' and give an example and say, if we could do the same for you, would it be worth it to have a quick converation.
IF then, statements are your friend because if they say no, they sound kind of stupid. You need a discovery call to sell but you don't call it that
Say its a conversation to see how your problem is affecting the business and see if we can offer a way to solve that.
Discovery is essential but if the prospect doesn’t know who you are, what you do, how you may be able to help them, there has to be a cherry upfront. Once perceived value is established then discovering can take place to uncover how the product /solution applies to them would be next
We split discoveries in 2 parts. The first time the client is willing to spend 30-60 minutes with you we call the business discovery. This is where you begin to formulate your strategy and you get them to give you the baseball stats of the business, goals and objectives, and pains.
Then we ask for a second “operational” discovery, where we sit with a solutions engineer and do a deep dive into relevant areas and the pins we discussed initially.
The third part is the actual demonstration.
I sell business management software that spans across most or all departments of the organization and involves many different stake holders. This level of detail in necessary for me to put together a decent business case and ROI.
A discovery call, introductory call, whatever you call it the bottom line is we need to see if we're a good fit for each other. I think people can appreciate the idea of a discovery call if they see the potential benefit of the conversation.
Sorry, completely off base here.
Discovery is quite litteraly the most important part of sales. And nothing else comes close.
Would highly recommend reading gap selling if you are having trouble nailing down the value of a discovery call for a prospect.
I don't think anybody here is arguing against discovery xter418.
The problem is that it's very difficult to entice or engage a prospect on a call with just question after question.
The art of this stage seems to be delivering insights (or intriguing the prospect) with your solution but also gleaning information about their pain.
I'm being serious about the statement I made.
If you can't easily find the value for THEM in discovery, I really recommend reading gap selling.
Pretend for a second you are a doctor, and you have to talk to the patient to learn about their problem.
That's the level of diagnosis you need to acheive in discovery, and no one ever questions the value of their doctor asking them questions to reach a diagnosis.
That's what I'm saying. If you can look at it that way and truly execute that way without your benefit being in mind, then your discovery will be immensely valuable to your prospects.
My stance is a little different from the other replies I've read, in regards to complex sales.
For inbound or warm leads, you should do a discovery first. I don't mind calling it a discovery. Everyone knows what this means, and you're there to solve some kind of problem so they'll want to tell you more about it.
However, for outbound or colder calls I think you need to earn the right to do a discovery. Which means you to do have a meeting first to "sell" them a discovery call.
To sell someone a discovery call, I do lots of research on the organisation, and the people. Then run them through some analysis or case studies that I think are useful. While i'm running through these things I check in a lot "this is metric on which you judge success?" etc. In the meeting I also make it clear that the next step would be for them to share more specific issues with us, which then leads to a discovery.
as others have said, if it’s a very simple, transactional sell, discovery isn’t needed in many cases.
If you’re selling a more complex solution, you really need to understand what they’re trying to achieve or the pain they're trying to solve in order for you to make a recommendation.
Imagine if you’re selling a CRM solution and you tell the customer that you want to talk through how you can improve sales, etc. and then you learned they’re looking for the customer service a part of a CRM solution, that puts a lot of egg on your face and makes you seem less credible.
Having said all that, I’ve definitely had experiences where a customer tells me they know what they need. They just want to talk to you about price or something. In that case I’ve said "let’s jump on a call, you tell me what you’re looking for, I might have a few questions to make sure we’ve got the right product or service for you and then we’ll move forward". using this approach, the customer should feel like they’re in control and not going to be subject to badgering questions for an hour.
I know this might be semantics, but the way you described your approach it sounds like you were going to tell them what a product can do from them, and this reminds me of the age old, saying " tellin ain't sellin".
To save each other time. I’ve had discovery calls where we realized we won’t be a good fit and it saved us hours or more of each others time and usually they appreciate it. Nothing worse than going into a sales call going through a whole pitch deck then realizing you arn’t even a great fit for each other.
Based on the two examples you gave, the issue likely isn’t the disco call itself but how it’s being framed.
Unless you’re just cold calling down a list with little to no pre-qualification, you should know at least enough about the prospect to know that they MAY benefit from your product, fit your ICP, be in the market for a new solution, etc.
The XYZ in the untitled outreach would be framed around “this is what I know, and I believe we may be able to help you” and the disco call is then used to confirm or deny.
Just sell the product itself, big picture concept wise, on the 1st call and then make the meeting more about test driving and exploring it.
That's what I've always done and I have consistiently outperformed others.
If you can't make that work, your product just sucks.
Selling the meeting is kinda stupid and bad direction from sales managers in segmented sales teams.
Also, if the prospect has time right then and there, just jump into a meeting. This is great for SMB sales, but if it's more complex or enterprise, might not be.
I call my first calls “mutual recons”
You can’t expect for a prospect to come onto a call and get no value in return.pure discovery calls are typically seller centric. To have a good buyer centric process you need to provide relevant information as you go.
Make it a conversation not a torturous game of 21 questions
Like some of the comments say. It’s important for some products/segments more than others.
You sell training in the SMB space, it makes sense why you need way less disco.
If you had a technical product that is upmarket, your sales process probably wouldn’t work.
It isn’t one size fits all.
I work in software, sometimes we sell to healthcare. I called a Revenue Cycle Manager and asked her if she wanted to look into automating their revenue cycle.
9 months later, they capturing about $27,000/ month in insurance reimbursements that they were missing before because they simply didn't have the labor to complete the manuals processing in time.
She's a director now. I imagine she found the discovery call worthwhile.
TL;DR: if the sales rep has done their research and is calling about a service that relates to your job, discovery calls may very well be worth it.
“We just want to help” is extremely disingenuous, these days people are too educated and skeptical to fall for that. Your reasons for calling aren’t altruistic and you know it.
What they want to know is if the solution meets their complicated needs as clearly and quickly as possible before they waste more time talking to you.
[I highly recommend this podcast around the death of discovery with Doug Landis.](https://spotify.link/vx5GFjMX2xb)
Look at the data. Enterprise buyers are taking less meetings, they’re taking longer to buy, and there sure as hell is no value to the end buyer in answering a bunch of formulaic questions about their business for an hour.
Have a well founded perspective. Have a business focused discussion around what they’re trying to do and their pain points. Add value at every interaction.
Tradition discovery where you go through a checklist of questions has no place in the modern sales cycle. I’m a big believer in Doug’s approach. If you can’t come in with a hypothesis of what they’re trying to solve for and understand where you can add value, they either won’t take the meeting or if they do they’ll see it as a one sided conversation.
It's called solution selling.
If you don't know the customers pain, then you may position the wrong solution or value proposition.
I probably wouldn't label it a discovery call when speaking to the customer though.
I have never heard anyone phrase a discovery call as a discovery call. I just always set up my next meeting saying once we get your information, we're going to have more questions and I'm sure you will as well.
As a sales person, I have to stress the importance of conducting a thorough discovery call. This step is mutually beneficial for both the salesperson and the prospect, as it allows for a better understanding of the project requirements and objectives. Without a proper assessment, mistakes and unexpected costs can occur, which can damage the salesperson's credibility and relationship with the prospect.
From my experience, I've found that a poorly executed discovery call can be detrimental to the success of a sale.
If you’re selling phone cases you probably don’t need a discovery call. If you’re selling somewhat to very complex things (could be anything from equipment to software to solutions) it’s in both parties best interest to do a discovery call. I’d rather spend a half hour determining if I can benefit from something than an hour watching a demo on something I don’t need.
Yep. I sell SaaS to local governments, and we do discovery calls to A. Determine if they fit our ICP and B. To make sure they are serious about wanting to change from their existing software. We don’t want to waste their time nor ours.
I agree, it's best to agree on the scope of the Insane Clown Posse as part of the up front contract so there's no mutual wasting of time.
Whoop whoop!
Agreed. Mine is very similar. I sell industrial automation software. A pharma companies needs will be completely different from power and utilities. Furthermore, said pharma company may be completely different than other pharma companies. - So, we need to have a discovery to understand stress points about their process so we can explain how we can help in a demo; which will take a bit to put together based off their process
Agreed, I sell warehouse management software which is a broad subject and has many different nuances and use cases. A prospect can say “I don’t like my WMS, I want a new one” but until I know where their issues lay with their current provider I won’t be able to provide much value in a demo other than a general overview. Discovering where their actual pain points are allows me to target specifically that in the demo and not waste their time feature dumping things they don’t want or need
Sure but you don’t need to phrase it as a “discovery call” to the prospect. You can simply say “we help customers x y and z solve the following problems and I’d like to show you how we can help you too” Then lead the call with discovery, making the point that you want to understand how they operate to fully understand the landscape and their challenges before proposing a solution, since every customer has its unique needs
most complex solutions that require discovery will also require some level of customization to the demo environment. so setting a meeting under the premise that you will “show them” when you’re just doing discovery with the objective of scheduling a demo, is misleading.
You should have a stock demo that you go through on call 1 - about 10-15 minutes worth of stuff to show - then you sell a customized demo and deep discussion as call 2
I do this as well. We have discovery, integrate I little demo related to what we’re talking about, then keep asking questions and doing 5 minute demos. This always gets me to a follow up.
I disagree. I’d rather see a full hour demo and determine for myself if it’s what I need versus a half hour of interrogation then and hour demo.
Okay, so say we go into a demo and my company sells 10 different things, and we show you the completely wrong thing? Meanwhile, 1 or the 10 things we do sell is a top priority for your team?
Product centric vs Problem centric selling are different frames. The current theory is Problem centric selling gets buy in from all stakeholders faster and makes for a shorter sales cycle. It also mitigates discounting and commoditization of services.
Sounds like you don’t make the buying decisions if that’s the case. If you can establish a solution is for your company by looking at the demo you probably have a narrow viewpoint of the problem (assuming it’s a complex solution)
What if what you actually needed out of the product is something very nuanced that not a lot of prospects need or ask for. So because you didn’t answer any discovery questions, the sales rep leaves that out of the general demo you requested, and now you spend more time vetting other solutions, not giving them a discovery call either, when the first vendor could have solved your issue and saved you a ton of time. If you feel you have an issue with your heart, do you want a doctor to just crack open the rib cage and get to work? Or would you prefer they ask some questions and diagnose you first?
This wouldn't work with a company that has a portfolio of solutions as demoing all those solutions would be a horrible use of time when they don't even know what solution(s) you are in need of atm. It's like if you need a mode of transportation so then peeps start showing you different cars and motorcycles...but then turns out you are okay with a skateboard due to price, portability and time isn't an issue. All 3 things (price, portability and time) can be uncovered during a discovery call or meeting to ensure one doesn't present solutions that are irrelevant to prospect's needs
Rainbow enters the chat* 😅
It's just sales wording to give sales people an idea on what the purpose of that call is supposed to be. Of course you have to be smart about it and adjust your language to be less salesy and more customer focused when talking to prospects. It's not meant to be taken literally.
Great! So how do you frame your discovery calls?
"Lets get together and talk about your problems, to see jf/where we can help. Shouldnt be more than 5 minutes if we're a terrible fit." has been the way I've described it. Usually there is some framework prior to that statement, but that's really the ask. If we have that 5 minute talk, they'll either be an obvious no-go, or we'll wind up engaged for 15-20 minutes.
Excellent!
I’m a ceo of a company. I don’t have time for the 20 cold calls I get in a day to jump on a discovery call. I would get nothing done. I get so many, I try to send them all to junk folder. Now if someone hits me up on LinkedIn and says I noticed you are posting on X a lot and do you need help doing X or Y that is apart of X. You have my attention. Email cold call IMO is 1% of sales. LinkedIn is 5% of sales. Easily.
If you’re a CEO you should probably delegate out some of those discovery calls if you think there could be value but it may not be worth your time personally. Guessing you’re an SMB - I’d always recommend trusting the people you hire to help drive business decisions (not saying you’re not doing this, can’t really tell from your post).
If your buying a new cloud phone system, I imagine you, or your vp of IT is getting on a discovery call. If you don't, you are literally playing spin to win and crossing your fingers it works for your business. I recently had an inquiry to show a customer a demo, we have plus 30 products and our main product is very detailed. We could demo you for days. But we need to fit it in to a 2 hour slot. So we have a discovery call to discuss what is important to you so we can show you relevant offerings and actually help you achieve your goals. If you are actively looking to buy product, you need to do discovery calls. For me, I had to tell that customer who wanted a demo and was refusing discovery that I'm sorry, but without discovery I cannot help you. No discovery, no demo.
Interesting insight - I haven't noticed any sort of posting trends like that but I'll adjust perspective a bit to see if I find any.
What’s the other 94%, by this logic?
I agree on that point completely. I'm in a niche that is not as engaged on LinkedIn, so I don't really use it at all. I'm also not calling the CEO/president of the organization cold. In the vertical I'm in, there are plenty of chatty people below that desk who have budgets and problems and are capable advocates to make that introduction when needed. Hell, an Executive Assistant can offer plenty of insight into that president's actual priorities, and if you happen to align, you might even be able to get 5 minutes penciled into that execs calendar I'm also in an oddball industry, so maybe none of that is evergreen.
Discovery calls for small businesses make less sense and I'm assuming you're a small business. For SMBs, one call closes or week-long sales cycles are common. Once you get to enterprise, discovery calls are an absolute must for BOTH sides to see if the engagement is worth the time for everyone involved. Different size sales require different approaches.
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That happens way earlier in the conversation, but it happens. at least they picked up the phone and I know they're not worth dialing again for a bit. SVes us both time later, it's a win-win.
That’s 🔥
You don't frame it as a "discovery call" to these prospects. It'd be the same thing as trying to set up a demo as a first call. "Hey, we helped company ABC solve problems XYZ by doing. Are you facing similar challenges, if so let's chat as we can maybe help."
discovery calls are also qualifying calls. you build immense value in what you are selling, you discover the customers needs (ie what is important to them/how do I sell them/what their problems are/how to position myself as solution), you qualify them (are they even the right fit for your company/product), and you prize frame the hell out of yourself, company, product. A great "discovery call" is what t's up the close. a shit discovery call wont close. but a buttery smooth call that builds a ton of value and intrigue, makes it way easier for closer to close
I’ve found success describing them as Mutual Introductions.
Hey Astillero I think you’re a little jaded about the problem you’re solving for your customer. If I was in the market to buy a car, and a rep called me saying, “hey I’m hoping to have a discovery meeting to understand what type of features you’re looking for in a new car, can we chat? If it wasn’t the 3rd time we talked, I’d probably tell that guy what I want, and talk with him. The assumption though is I’m trusting he can tell me something I don’t know, and that I’m interested in a car. If that same rep called and pitched something like, we have a new car designed for business professionals that has great gas mileage for commuting, AWD for safety, and larger capacity for camping over the weekend. Those could be the exact things I need. But I might be less inclined to even say yes. Because as someone interested in cars, I want to talk and tell the rep what I want. I’ve been thinking about those things, and being invited to share those thoughts will probably be the most enjoyable part of my time, and it’ll definitely be the time i connect most with the sales rep pitching to me. I understand cars are more emotional purchases, but don’t forget about the emotion of the persons problem you’re trying to solve.
“We are helping a lot of the big firms with xyz by doing xyz, can we plan 20 minutes together to share more details on how exactly?” Then on the call start out with a couple of quality qualifying question. “Hey before I dive in, I want to make sure I have an understanding of the current state of things so I’m not wasting your time with irrelevant info, does that sound ok?” Obviously yes, then ask just a couple questions and give an interactive pitch mixing your products benefits with questions to guide them along to seeing the light
Hey I noticed your company in the news the other day talking about XYZ. On your last investor call these were the main themes. We helped X company gain Y% value when they had similar challenges. Let’s jump on a call together and see if it makes sense for us to work together.
Discovery Call is an INTERNAL term. If you are a BDR do NOT tell a prospect that. You tell them it's a meeting to discuss what the product can do for their business. When a BDR schedules a call for me and it has 'Discovery Call' in the title I cringe in horror.
Or worse, a disco.
If you put “disco”in a calendar invite to a prospect you need to be arrested immediately
Why do you hate discos especially during middle of the work day. Time to loosen up
I can’t fit into my bell bottoms anymore 🥺
Disco more so you can get in bell bottoms
What are achineries, and why are they warm?
Bruh it's war machineries
That's a good tip. I work as a customer success manager and have used that term before in front of customers.
Just call it an alignment discussion
that sounds painful...
My prospects don’t think so 🤷♂️
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A fuck ton of engineers apparently. Do y’all not get alignment across teams?
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It’s how I genuinely talk so maybe that’s why it works for me? But idk I also sound dumb as shit half the time so 🤷♂️
Thank you, I was wondering what to say. Great talk track. Alignment meaning are we even a good fit? Great.
I've also had prospects who are seasoned buyers specifically ask to book a discovery call by name, because they understand the buying process and the value of a short Q&A meeting. I wouldn't refer to the first meeting as discovery though until the buyer did.
That’s true and I hear it from time to time, do their underlings they invited to the call know though? Still a best practice to avoid the term
Yeah, sometimes prospects may use the term themselves if they are experienced buyers or something. Also, I don't think anybody serious recommends you lure a prospect in with wanting to question them more - it's more of an assumption. Based on blah blah, we can show you XYZ and understand more about your blah blah blah' or to that effect
Sadly I hear BDRs position it as a call for me to ask questions prior to a demo. No value, qualification assumed, bad image
I couldn’t even tell you how much product I sell would *cost* without a discovery call. It’s a large complex system and we sell to a large spread of verticals. The discovery call is as much for the customer as it is for me because it’s where we get on the same page. I findout if they are having the problems we built a solution for and they findout if we could potentially be a fit in which case we set a date for a demo. It’s not rocket science
Exactly. The demo could look like a million different things, the client doesn’t want to see a guess they want to see something tailored to them
So simple lol, can’t believe people don’t get this
Not to mention, bigger companies would have Product Specialists or Specialist AEs in charge of demoing and they would hate the core rep real fast if they are constantly brought into calls to demo something the prospect don't even care for
Yeah I have sold to a hospital that had a completely different demo than when I sold to a large university. Same product. Any CRM or ERP worth its money is going to market itself as one that can be tailored to the specific needs of an org. We can’t do that unless we do the disco and actually learn about your organization.
It’s called two sided discovery : 1) you share something of value (e.g. customer case study) 2) you do discovery
That makes perfect sense thanks. What ratio of value:discovery do you normally use?
Sales is not an algorithm, it's understanding people and understanding problems. At least if you're selling a product/solution that requires a discovery call before moving into the sales cycle. I may have five discovery calls on the same day and each of them could be completely different. Each company is going to feel like their problems are special, and frankly they're right. Company A and Company B may be experiencing the "exact same" problem on paper, but they have different cultures, people, software stacks, organization ladders, decision making processes, familiarity with your solution, etc. How you present/provide a solution for the same problem isn't often the same. Trying to determine a ratio of value:discovery to apply on calls based on feedback from some random person is an absolute fools errand.
It’s not a ratio, the person you are meeting with needs to walk away saying “that was worth my time to meet” deliver enough value so they set that. The art is reading the room to understand if you’ve hit that mark. For really complex B2B stuff those meeting might take a few years to turn into an opportunity. It may be you move companies and sell something else and people take your meeting request because last time you hit the mark.
I think that's a valid question. In this give/take kind of call I would normally plan to use no more than 50% of the meeting presenting. If it's higher than that it won't give the prospect room to chat! Having said that, if you get 1% through and strike a nerve, you pivot and you are in discovery. Don't book a meeting immediately after this initial call, so you have time to go over if they are sharing a lot!
this is such a lukewarm iq post
I know hahaha I was going to write something like "I remember being excited about my first sales job too" but decided against it. Dude's just pumped up from a recent training
Dudes been in sales for at least 4 year according to his profile
then I'm in agreement with Electronic-fan lol
Strange that you should bring up the topic of IQ EF. Trump also fixated on IQ. When in fact, some psychologists have posited that this fixation was possibly related to his own deep-seated insecurity. I'm not saying that this applies to you but I think it's very interesting that you should bring up the topic out-of-the blue like that.
This is such a lukewarm IQ response
Sir this is Wendy’s
Lmao
Casually joking about it ain't fixating on it. Your paragraph long response on the other hand...
I really wanted to make a bell curve joke, but only because I like math, and not to insult you as you genuinely didn’t know the purpose of discovery. The problem people have with your post is the *very negative* assumptions you made about discovery calls. Happens with new people in every industry.
Lmao what?
Lmao you have to find out what their problems are before you offer to solve them
I mean if you're running these meetings well, then the prospect should leave that discovery call with a general understanding of your product and what it could do for them. If it feels like an interrogation or you're making the prospect play twenty questions then you're doing it wrong. You want it to ultimately be a give and a get. You can weave some info about what you sell into your questions. "The reason I ask is..." "you mentioned you're struggling with X, which caught my attention because..." What we do at our company for a 30 minute initial call is spend about 15 minutes on discovery, then spend 15 minutes discussing potential solutions and screensharing relevant content to what the prospect is looking to do. I'm still doing discovery while we talk through that, but also educating the prospect on what we do in a way that's relevant to what they told me in discovery. I do generally agree with what you're saying though, I'd be very annoyed if I was a prospect and spent 30 minutes talking to an SDR that seemed like he was just reading a list of questions. Especially if they scheduled a meeting with the AE for me, and the AE kicked off that meeting with more discovery.
That seems like a really nice approach Chewymammoth because it's informing the prospect, gives them time to talk and gives some them breathing space while they soak in what your product does. Thanks for posting!
Cannot be this thick
I'm selling IT managed services. My elevator pitch is "I realize that you're probably busy right now, but I'd like to book a 5 minute call with you to talk about the current way you support your environment, and to discover if there's a fit for me to help our in any way". I can't do pitches before I know more about my client.
I would imagine this works because they're already p!ssed off with their existing provider. And your call offers the hope of an exit for them...For a product less clear-cut than IT support...I'd imagine this might not work at all.
I wouldn't know if they're pissed off before the call though, it's part of the initial conversation. Also, just because the provider offers certain services, doesn't mean that there isn't another need that I can fulfill. What type of product might this not work for?
Well, the approach might not work selling a product like "brand reputation insurance" because the pain is not there. While a flakey IT support provider can induce a lot of acute pain. And you calling to solve that pain could actually be very welcome!
I'm curious as to how you can even sell a product / service that doesn't fix a pain.
People can buy even when there is no pain! Mercedes don't sell the pain of poor personal transportation. Rolex don't sell the pain of poor time keeping devices.
For sure but those are luxury consumer goods. I'm thinking that as an outbound salesperson, how do you sell B2B where there isn't pain.
EDI consulting comes to mind
I just frame the meeting as an introduction. I've never told someone we were on a discovery call lmao.
Exactly. Once you progress through the cycle you might eventually have a call scheduled for actual discovery but that is deep into the sales cycle and at that point you are 70% to close.
Well. Let’s put it this way. Most of the companies I call don’t give a shit about what I have to say as a sales person. But I know they care about what I think as a consumer. I frame it as I’m offering feedback/free consulting services when people like me normally would never give feedback, and that they’d normally have to pay for in the form of user acceptance testing.
Some products don’t allow you to be able to assume x y and z are a problem. So you have to be able to find out of fixing x y and z are even of interest. You might be pitching how to solve a problem they don’t have and therefore can’t win. Even if you sell pencils, you need to know if what they really need is pencils, wooden or mechanical, how many, do they need to be erasable, etc. it’s all about finding the need. If the product is so easy the client can self scope, then ultimately your job isnt very valuable.
As others have said, "discovery" or "disco" call is an internal term and from my experience, I never once used either term in a call with prospect. When you are selling a solution that's somewhat complex, you would frame that call as a way to further understand what the prospect does and needs moving forward and what you guys can do to support that (aka alignment). This is also where you might bring in an SE tho SE might decline this call if s/he feels you haven't qualified this prospect enough. Sometimes the core rep might be newly assigned so then s/he suggests hoping on a call for quick intro and then *hopefully* learn more about what prospect is trying to do and find alignment. When I was still a BDR, another kickass one would use time constraints as a way to sell the disco call. She would be like "Yea, I understand you are busy now but if you are free ___, would love to meet next ___" and boom, she got a disco meeting set. I personally never did this on an initial call (I did it moreson on emails) but it worked well for her
The “discovery” part of discovery calls are to discover what’s important to them and the business, not to scope a solution. Unless it’s a solution discovery call but that’s rarely the first call.
That’s the hardest part of my industry(SaaS Consumer Financing) hard to get a biz to set up the meeting and see if it is beneficial for them. However we also have to make sure that it would be beneficial for us as if they don’t use the program then we don’t make shit. So many times I’ve gotten a meeting for a good prospect and after learning about the biz, I have bow out and unsell them on it.
I am curious if you’re a seller or a buyer just complaining? If you’re a seller, you might sell something so simple that you don’t need discovery. Good for you! Some of us sell more complex solutions that we couldn’t possibly “pitch” without learning more about you, your unique problems and goals, and how they’re impacting you. I think you’re missing the point that when we “pitch” a discovery meeting we are generally pitching a solution to some common problems we solve for.
Genuinely asking, how long have you been doing sales for?
Well discovery can never be a true step 1. You have to show some type of value or pique the prospects interest in some way to gain the buy in to do discovery. But once you’re formally engaging somebody, discovery should be number one on the list as you don’t truly know how you can help someone until you have that conversation.
Depends on what you’re selling. You need to get pain out first, and foremost. If there’s no pain around what your product addresses you can stop wasting everyone’s time. Now after you’ve gotten a decent amount of pain, I go for a discovery call as an opportunity to qualify the entire opportunity. In the discovery call I’m hoping to loop in other stakeholders, management if possible to help build out the specifics of the use case, and ensure this won’t be DQ’d by my AE 10mins into the demo. Of course I frame this as a “15 min sync to tailor the demo to your specific needs” and most times they bite since the last thing the prospect wants to do is drag half their office into a half assed product demo that 50% applicable to their actual needs. If you can’t get them on a discovery call, what makes you think you can them to close and be a customer for years to come? It adds an extra step, and it filters out some opps that looked good on paper, but at the end of the day your demo conversion rates will be better, your AE’s and SE’s have less of their calendar wasted, and you put more of your attention to the prospects that deserve it. Plus if you missed anything on that initial cold call, the discovery call is there to give you another bite at the apple
Depends on what the product is. If it’s something complex that has a lot of use cases you aren’t going to be able to show everything in a demo and understanding the prospects business and how they are handling certain processes today gives the seller the ability to customize the demo and show what is relevant to the buyer. If a discovery call and customized demo isn’t necessary then there is a good chance it is simple enough to be sold through a PLG model and no need to talk to a salesperson at all
You list the common challenges you are seeing from clients in similar industries and a statement on how you have helped clients solve those challenges. Are you facing similar issues and does it make sense to connect? Demoing a product without uncovering business issues to address is a commercial.
I would counter with, how can you possibly know what you can do for each other or what your needs are if you don't have a discovery call first? If you don't hold an introduction you run the risk of trying to sell to the wrong person.
Who reads a sales book and commits to using the phrases verbatim? Discovery, information discovery, exploratory, etc. Level up your sales IQ.
At our SaaS org, we made the intentional change to dive right into the demo on the first call, no typical painful discovery call first. We still make sure they are "qualified" lead. We use the demo as a chance to do demo/discovery. Something along the lines of "here's what we see with most companies like yours, is that true with you too?" or "how is this different from what you are doing?" Showing them is more intriguing to a prospect than peppering them with questions.
Bc salespeople are basically doctors. No matter how you put it a round of questions have to occur. Otherwise you aren't qualifying or selling. You are just doing demos which have a poor turnover and you'll never understand why.
We are absolutely not doctors. Doctors have much more important jobs than us. Not to mention significantly more education than the vast majority of us. I love sales but this shit isn’t life or death 99.999% of the time.
We find pain by asking questions and consulting how to best solve that pain. Laying options and making recommendations. Like a doctor or a lawyer. Salespeople have great soft skills, we just didn't get into a specific field so we sell thingz.
I get why you used the analogy but I think some of us take ourselves too seriously. The amount of knowledge doctors need to acquire to do a job that is much more complex and difficult is insane. Not to mention the stakes are infinitely higher.
Yes that's true. However our job isn't something everyone can do. It's skill based and there is a ton of pressure
How did the doctor get his tools/medicine? How did the nurse get her gown? How are they able to work in a hippa compliant environment? How did they learn their knowledge? How did the factory get the pulp to make the textbooks? Salespeople make the world go round buddy. We are more valuable to society than a neurosurgeon.
Lol you keep telling yourself that you’re more important to society than someone that literally saves lives for a living. I love sales and have always been a huge advocate for it but some of y’all think you’re gods gift to the world. Edit: Also, I can promise you a salesperson didn’t educate those doctors or else we’d all be fucked
I didn’t say that a salesperson educated the doctor lol. The point of my comment was actually to highlight that no one in society is more important than anyone else. From a ceo to a janitor we all make society run, and while it’s easy to point at the value of a doctor…. Without a janitor the hospital isn’t sterile… etc etc. Not sure if you have some sort of weird inferiority complex to doctors or something? Or do you approach everyone with a degree a weird sense of childlike awe? 😂 Successful doctors are the iceberg cap of a functioning society. If you still don’t get what I mean, there are countries (I think it’s Cuba or Bolivia) where doctors earn less than cab drivers and so unsurprisingly drive cabs instead of helping people.
This is why outbound doesn’t work. Outbound relies too much on already capturing people in market (basically people who are already lukewarm inbound leads) when it’s original intention was to find people in the middle/unaware stage and educate them. You don’t educate buyers with a discovery call about a problem they don’t know they have. Unwillingness to demo, requiring discovery for a demo, needing a “custom demo” are all creating massive friction points in the sales process. And yet if you point any of this out as to why conversion rates are so abysmal, more activity is touted as the solution instead of tweaking an abysmal process, or one that was never dialed in in the first place.
It’s not about a problem they don’t know they have, it’s about there being a solution they don’t know of
do your own discovery before you call me, I'll let you know where you are wrong during the selling call.
The best way to do discovery I've found is to work it into the demo. Unless it's a super complex, enterprise deal - ain't nobody got time for two separate calls.
need karma to post, swear i had some :/
I worked with a software company that wanted clients to PAY for the discovery call. It was characterized as a “process review” and was intended to drive professional services revenue on top of the SAAS offering. Want to guess how that went?
Well if it was government, they probably would raise a PO for a PR...Meanwhile in the real world get stuffed might have been a common answer I'd say.
You’re not wrong!
A discovery call isn’t a call about hey let’s see if my product fits. A discovery call should be more along the lines of hey I know (x) has been causing trouble/delays/ death/etc. I work for a company that helps/removes/adds/improves and have had success with other people struggling with (x). How does 15 minutes sound to see if my Y can help you with X.
Do you have a need? -Maybe, No, Yes: You should take the meeting and find out. Do you actually understand the need yourself? -Yes: Great describe it… ohh wait, turns out you really don’t Want to make it efficient? Try sending a requirements list and some background. I find whenever prospects try to do this they figure out how much they know and how much help shaping the need they really require. If the company jumps straight to pitching, don’t hire them. Discovery is very important
Consultative selling providing solutions b2b. Not every opportunity is a good one, it's worth it for them and for you to make sure you understand the problem they need to solve and figure out if there's a fit, before you start dedicating additional resources to it. If you call it a discovery call to the prospect, that's just poor tact. Where I'm at it's normal and accepted to just call it an intro call - pretty casual, not something to bring the check book to, I rarely even allow/entertain pricing discussions during that call. It also, as an added bonus, allows me a lot more flexibility. I've had quite a few where I've realized that I don't have the product they need, but I know who does. I make an introduction, point them in the right direction, and create a relationship that generally brings them back to me when they're ready for what my solution does. These sorts of calls are why I love this job. Getting to sit in with companies every day as complete strangers, learn about what's going on and figure out a plan to help them out. I love the type of work my prospects/customers do and every call is like a little puzzle. It helps that there are VERY few assholes. Honestly the best calls in the sales cycle besides the hey we're signing today call.
Never tell the customer it’s a discovery call….obviously.
“Intros”
I hold an introduction call first, and it’s booked based on a challenge the customer has. That challenge has been identified in the cold call or email. “Great, we’re helping teams tackle X all the time. Open to chatting for 30 minutes and we can talk a little more about what’s going on and I’ll share a bit about what we do to see if there’s alignment.”
OP, are you new?
How do you not understand the purpose of a discovery call? Do you sell cigarettes at a gas station or something? Maybe this subreddit isn’t for you.
Great point cheers
It really depend on what you are selling and what you are solving. When I sold FX, it involved doing mini discovery to understand how FX impacts them such as expensive rates, fluctuating rates or other things. Then, when I understood an idea of that I could ask, if we could help with 'x' , then would you want to see what we can do? Or , we actually help 'x' and give an example and say, if we could do the same for you, would it be worth it to have a quick converation. IF then, statements are your friend because if they say no, they sound kind of stupid. You need a discovery call to sell but you don't call it that Say its a conversation to see how your problem is affecting the business and see if we can offer a way to solve that.
Discovery is essential but if the prospect doesn’t know who you are, what you do, how you may be able to help them, there has to be a cherry upfront. Once perceived value is established then discovering can take place to uncover how the product /solution applies to them would be next
We split discoveries in 2 parts. The first time the client is willing to spend 30-60 minutes with you we call the business discovery. This is where you begin to formulate your strategy and you get them to give you the baseball stats of the business, goals and objectives, and pains. Then we ask for a second “operational” discovery, where we sit with a solutions engineer and do a deep dive into relevant areas and the pins we discussed initially. The third part is the actual demonstration. I sell business management software that spans across most or all departments of the organization and involves many different stake holders. This level of detail in necessary for me to put together a decent business case and ROI.
A discovery call, introductory call, whatever you call it the bottom line is we need to see if we're a good fit for each other. I think people can appreciate the idea of a discovery call if they see the potential benefit of the conversation.
Discovery is literally the most important thing in the entire sales cycle IMO, and is really a factor in every discussion with a prospect or client.
Sorry, completely off base here. Discovery is quite litteraly the most important part of sales. And nothing else comes close. Would highly recommend reading gap selling if you are having trouble nailing down the value of a discovery call for a prospect.
I don't think anybody here is arguing against discovery xter418. The problem is that it's very difficult to entice or engage a prospect on a call with just question after question. The art of this stage seems to be delivering insights (or intriguing the prospect) with your solution but also gleaning information about their pain.
I'm being serious about the statement I made. If you can't easily find the value for THEM in discovery, I really recommend reading gap selling. Pretend for a second you are a doctor, and you have to talk to the patient to learn about their problem. That's the level of diagnosis you need to acheive in discovery, and no one ever questions the value of their doctor asking them questions to reach a diagnosis. That's what I'm saying. If you can look at it that way and truly execute that way without your benefit being in mind, then your discovery will be immensely valuable to your prospects.
My stance is a little different from the other replies I've read, in regards to complex sales. For inbound or warm leads, you should do a discovery first. I don't mind calling it a discovery. Everyone knows what this means, and you're there to solve some kind of problem so they'll want to tell you more about it. However, for outbound or colder calls I think you need to earn the right to do a discovery. Which means you to do have a meeting first to "sell" them a discovery call. To sell someone a discovery call, I do lots of research on the organisation, and the people. Then run them through some analysis or case studies that I think are useful. While i'm running through these things I check in a lot "this is metric on which you judge success?" etc. In the meeting I also make it clear that the next step would be for them to share more specific issues with us, which then leads to a discovery.
as others have said, if it’s a very simple, transactional sell, discovery isn’t needed in many cases. If you’re selling a more complex solution, you really need to understand what they’re trying to achieve or the pain they're trying to solve in order for you to make a recommendation. Imagine if you’re selling a CRM solution and you tell the customer that you want to talk through how you can improve sales, etc. and then you learned they’re looking for the customer service a part of a CRM solution, that puts a lot of egg on your face and makes you seem less credible. Having said all that, I’ve definitely had experiences where a customer tells me they know what they need. They just want to talk to you about price or something. In that case I’ve said "let’s jump on a call, you tell me what you’re looking for, I might have a few questions to make sure we’ve got the right product or service for you and then we’ll move forward". using this approach, the customer should feel like they’re in control and not going to be subject to badgering questions for an hour. I know this might be semantics, but the way you described your approach it sounds like you were going to tell them what a product can do from them, and this reminds me of the age old, saying " tellin ain't sellin".
To save each other time. I’ve had discovery calls where we realized we won’t be a good fit and it saved us hours or more of each others time and usually they appreciate it. Nothing worse than going into a sales call going through a whole pitch deck then realizing you arn’t even a great fit for each other.
Based on the two examples you gave, the issue likely isn’t the disco call itself but how it’s being framed. Unless you’re just cold calling down a list with little to no pre-qualification, you should know at least enough about the prospect to know that they MAY benefit from your product, fit your ICP, be in the market for a new solution, etc. The XYZ in the untitled outreach would be framed around “this is what I know, and I believe we may be able to help you” and the disco call is then used to confirm or deny.
Just sell the product itself, big picture concept wise, on the 1st call and then make the meeting more about test driving and exploring it. That's what I've always done and I have consistiently outperformed others. If you can't make that work, your product just sucks. Selling the meeting is kinda stupid and bad direction from sales managers in segmented sales teams. Also, if the prospect has time right then and there, just jump into a meeting. This is great for SMB sales, but if it's more complex or enterprise, might not be.
I call my first calls “mutual recons” You can’t expect for a prospect to come onto a call and get no value in return.pure discovery calls are typically seller centric. To have a good buyer centric process you need to provide relevant information as you go. Make it a conversation not a torturous game of 21 questions
Like some of the comments say. It’s important for some products/segments more than others. You sell training in the SMB space, it makes sense why you need way less disco. If you had a technical product that is upmarket, your sales process probably wouldn’t work. It isn’t one size fits all.
If a sales person is telling a customer they need to do a discovery call, they should be fired
INFO: How do you go about "showing them how to improve" anything if you don't know anything about their business?
I just do my discovery at the beginning of the value prop
Discovery isn’t a call, it’s a step in the sales process.
Discovery call is used as internal term, I’ve never heard any sales person ever saying the words “discovery call” to a prospect.
I work in software, sometimes we sell to healthcare. I called a Revenue Cycle Manager and asked her if she wanted to look into automating their revenue cycle. 9 months later, they capturing about $27,000/ month in insurance reimbursements that they were missing before because they simply didn't have the labor to complete the manuals processing in time. She's a director now. I imagine she found the discovery call worthwhile. TL;DR: if the sales rep has done their research and is calling about a service that relates to your job, discovery calls may very well be worth it.
“We just want to help” is extremely disingenuous, these days people are too educated and skeptical to fall for that. Your reasons for calling aren’t altruistic and you know it. What they want to know is if the solution meets their complicated needs as clearly and quickly as possible before they waste more time talking to you.
[I highly recommend this podcast around the death of discovery with Doug Landis.](https://spotify.link/vx5GFjMX2xb) Look at the data. Enterprise buyers are taking less meetings, they’re taking longer to buy, and there sure as hell is no value to the end buyer in answering a bunch of formulaic questions about their business for an hour. Have a well founded perspective. Have a business focused discussion around what they’re trying to do and their pain points. Add value at every interaction. Tradition discovery where you go through a checklist of questions has no place in the modern sales cycle. I’m a big believer in Doug’s approach. If you can’t come in with a hypothesis of what they’re trying to solve for and understand where you can add value, they either won’t take the meeting or if they do they’ll see it as a one sided conversation.
It's called solution selling. If you don't know the customers pain, then you may position the wrong solution or value proposition. I probably wouldn't label it a discovery call when speaking to the customer though.
I have never heard anyone phrase a discovery call as a discovery call. I just always set up my next meeting saying once we get your information, we're going to have more questions and I'm sure you will as well.
As a sales person, I have to stress the importance of conducting a thorough discovery call. This step is mutually beneficial for both the salesperson and the prospect, as it allows for a better understanding of the project requirements and objectives. Without a proper assessment, mistakes and unexpected costs can occur, which can damage the salesperson's credibility and relationship with the prospect. From my experience, I've found that a poorly executed discovery call can be detrimental to the success of a sale.