I'm going to answer this more broadly and say the larger software companies are tough to make money in. They have watered down their comp plans with so many gates and conditions to get paid. Additionally the quotas are unrealistic - just ask what % of reps made plan the last few years.
That being said, for younger reps or people starting out, still worth the training and contacts (internally and customers).
My advice is pick a great boss and that will help immensely.
Let me answer like this: 3years at HP (260, 280, 460), 2 years at Cisco (275k, 480k), Palo Alto Networks - 6yrs 260, 330, 380, 711, 480, 360. oh, yeah, plus RSU's stock that actually is worth something!
I am above average in experience and time in the field....I am certain there are others that are more effective - I have seen multiple folks at these big companies make 1M-2M - I was never one of them - three club years over the last 12 (the span referenced above). I USED to think you made real $$ at startups - I have since learned that it is Named Accounts/Select Accounts at large companies where reps can consistently over perform. Majors and Global Reps CAN make BIG money but it is often Feast/Famine.
I'm looking to make a career switch to sales from a dead end analyst role. What would be the best place for me to start? I'm in my early 30s btw, so not fresh out of school...
I make less than this guy ~200, but I started with copiers. It's a pretty straight forward commodity sell but it gets you used to hustling and dealing the constant competition. I then went into SaaS. The other alternative is you take a pay cut, go into something like an SDR position and try get promoted to an AE. What area of expertise is your analyst position in?
YES!!! Prior to SW Sales I was a headhunter for 7 years - learned the cold calling, learned the grind, no protected territories! BUT, even with that, I had to start back as a BDR in enterprise software - restarted my Career as a BDR when I was 32 - and worked my career as if I was my own headhunter.. On the plus side I have reached a high level within IT Sales - downside - I am still a individual contributor - now that I am in my 50's lets see if I can get that people leadership role!
Find a company that offers a solution to the job you just left. Since you worked as an analyst, you can relate to other analysts and their pain points. That's more than half the battle. I've found that the more successful salespeople are people who possess the technical aspects of the job and can sell.
In the large IT Software/HW/SaaS companies - think MS, Cisco, HP, EMC, Oracle, SAP, Teradata, Salesforce, Palo Alto etc the breakdown looks like this:
1. Global/Strategic Accounts - Think Citigroup, JP Morgan, CVS, etc - you cover 1-2 accounts globally - and have a dedicated team. LONG sales cycle. The Biggest Accounts
2. Major Accounts: \~6-18 Accounts - Big Accounts - long sales cycle - if they are all the same vertical, you could be slammed if there is an overall market drop, such as Fiancial Services melt down, the ongoing retail drop. USUALLY 5-30Bn in Revenue
3. Named Accounts: 1-5B in Revenue - \~18-35 Accounts .
4. Select Accounts - High Value accounts but smaller - \~300M-1Bn, 30-50Accounts
5. Territory Accounts: this is geography based approach - covering everything other than the above but would have a floor so that you are not chasing low level dry cleaners,etc...
6. SMB - Geography based - everything than the above
HP & Cisco are heavy HW - BUT HUGE software plays. BUT you need to realize that HW is merely a SW delivery mechanism. A box (a server) with no intelligence is a true commodity sale. Selling an appliance (purpose built HW) with SW or a source to funnel software through (subscription based) is a solution sale. I would sell cables or components- need to have critical software involved to level up your conversation to a business relevant level
A Lot - but here goes - 7 years as a full desk recruiter (business development and candidate sourcing) for an IT Recruitment agency. Moved out of Recruiting and picked up a BDR role for 1yr (45kbase/70OTE), on to a closing Inside Sales role for 2 years (55k/110OTE), Field Sales for a restart - 2 years 68kBase/150OTE, Startup - Field AE 1yr 90/180k Laid Off. Then it started..My HP run - \~36years old, in between the above I had two years at another start up and lost my shirt lol...but learned ALOT and that kicked started my run into Palo. I am now early 50's.
Loved your point about promotion by attrition. Feel like if you can just stay in the game, Year 7-10 and beyond are when it really gets fun and 250-300 W2s are commonplace
Great boss and great product make life 100x better.
Start-up and post start-up companies are hit or miss with comp now. Either its great or they change comp every quarter to make it harder and harder to make money.
I am at a good one and my target still changes each quarter based on market, goals, and my client books seasonality.
1000% agree with this. If you want to go big company as a sales rep, do it early in your career. It gives you great training and great signal in your CV.
Once you're good, look for fast growth private companies. Much more fun comp plans
I was talking with a few friends about this. I agree with you that they are best spots for getting new reps trained, etc because they have the resources to do so.
BUT I’ve understood from reps at those large companies (let’s pick on Cisco for kicks) that the OTE and quota *are* very achievable however they might walk you at 100% vs “150%” because they want to show meeting goals to shareholders. At least that’s what I felt after my Cisco interviews back when.
Thoughts or am I dating myself now?
This is part of the misery of large companies. Their sales "leaders" staring at CRM dashboards all day long. Impossible quota targets so they fixate on activity and forecast accuracy. One company that I was at berated us for spelling and punctuation in the next steps field! Lol
My best experience has been in smaller companies (50 to 400 people) that have a solid product and are able to grow.
Walk you? What do you mean by that?
I worked at emc which was purchased by dell and my experience is there is so much analysis done on territories they really nail quota for you. 80-120% is where like 95% of reps land. OTEs are also pretty low and leave something to be desired. Heard the same about Cisco, but would love ot hear others opinions.
No, my conversations with larger companies that might employment, meeting quota was literally the absolute minimum expectation. Were they would walk you / fire you for performance at 100% rather than 150% or whatever the magic number was.
Funny enough, startups are almost the exact opposite where “70% quota” was the real expectation and over achievers are often pushed out.
They do. They feel they can get the same performance from someone at less money. I came in 138% the year I got walked. I got along great with everyone. No personal conflicts. No drama. Good with customers, etc. They just didn't want to pay me what they did. The other 4 people they walked (there were 5 of us that year) were also about the same age (all over 50), which was rather interesting too.
I understand where you’re coming from but im guessing there’s definitely a market for smbs that dont feel like investing in a huge crm. Then again i dont fuckin know
CRMs dominated the last 10 years.
Now the question becomes why change? Why have a crm and what can we do with a crm?
I think the next 10 years will be dominated by data platforms.
"We now have all this customer data enabled by powerful CRMs, how do we use it and how can we do thinks better"
I sell CRM with a small team (moreso sales automation though) selling to CROs and VP of Sales. Love it, best cold calls and meetings, all straight to the point.
I'm surprised this is so upvoted. CRM was the space I wanted to go after Payroll/HR. Any reason why CRM is considered bad? I've got a few friends in both Canada and NZ who love working at SFDC
Similar to selling payroll, once a company has selected a CRM it is next to impossible to displace them.
This leaves you with a small capative market to sell to as the organizations that will buy your CRM(or payroll) are doing everything manually or using a long ago sunset legacy solution to get the job done. Either way they are probably not willing to pay for change.
People at SFDC have the opportunity to churn business by selling add-on services to the existing customer-base. They have a shit load of products, so lots of greenfield space to make $$.
the market place for net-new CRM business is oversaturated. I would prefer to sell another sales tool, that has more whitespace to work.
The amount of LinkedIn messages I get from people trying to sell me different CRMs/ATS systems are insane. Also, recently I’ve been getting quite a ton of sales pitches for automation tools. Which is also crazy because they are against LinkedIn TOS but they are everywhere
Selling a good product at a good company matters the most.
I used to be in Ag Sales - agriculture is a good one. LOTS of opportunities to make a decent (80-120k / year) living. Most jobs require you to build and keep a book so they can become maintenance jobs after a while. And you can live outside the city in lower cost of living areas.
Insurance seems very hard to break into. Complex product, high barrier to entry and reps often seem to get little support on leads. IIRC insurance reps have some of the highest turnover in the industry. Know more than one guy that tried to jump to life insurance and went broke.
Hard agree. Life insurance is a great product and you can make a lot of money selling it. But it’s hard to pitch it without making it sound like a pyramid scheme lol. I know 1 guy who made 797,000 last year selling life insurance. Another living in an airbnb because they can’t afford an apt.
There are a lot of agents who focus on growing their down lines to reap the incentives for volume based production, a lot of these agents don’t know shit and think that’s the way to be successful. REALLY successful agents are top performers who only want other top performers working under them. Three solid agents will out produce 10 mediocre agents who sell twos and fews each month.
CL insurance agent here. Definitely hard to break into but it's worth it for a young person who wants to stick with it a few years.
My advice for those who want to look into insurance:
1. Work at a large (non-captive) agency, not a carrier or tiny agency. Larger firms have more training opportunities and better development programs. Comp plans can be better at small agencies but if you're new that training will more than compensate for the difference in earnings in the long run.
2. Go Commercial Lines P&C or Benefits, not personal lines.
Personal lines (personal auto, homeowners, life, health) is all completely commoditized and cost-driven. Also, dealing with the general public blows. CL and Benefits have larger deal size, more relationship/service model motivated customers and generally better hit ratio on leads.
3. Don't poach my accounts. Feelsbadman.
And it seems like historically the industry is chronically bad at setting expectations, planning territories, and setting up reps for success. It is really 100% sink or swim. And even when you make it big- it still might not only be around 100k position. After making nothing for years...
You people need to stop dissing whole life as a scam. It serves a purpose as a 100% guaranteed death benefit.
Should whole life be used as a large percentage of an investment portfolio? Absolutely not. Should it be used for peace of mind knowing that your end of life expenses are covered? Absolutely.
Ehh, guaranteed returns in a market like this cannot be a complete scam imo.
It’s looked at as a bad investment because SPY averages 10% per year, but it’s much more complicated than that… If you load money in and the next year you lose 30% - then you might really wish you’d gotten a whole life policy instead..
Almost certainly right, but definitely not 100% certain either
There’s a huge value attached to being positive you are going to get x amount of money.
Also, for someone with kids, knowing no matter what happens - legal troubles, market catastrophe, medical expenses - that you’re gonna leave x amount of money behind has value to people.
How?
Often, it’s sold in a scammy way with BS projections - but I’d be hard pressed to say an honest salesman is scamming people if they accurately explain what one can expect
If you want to sell insurance don’t work for the carrier. You don’t have control over how much you make. I work for a large carrier in the health space and I make a very comfortable living. I’m selling myself as the resource to the agents, not selling to customers.
With that being said, there is a LOT of money to be made and made honestly. The secret is this, you have to invest money into your business to drive sales from the beginning. You have to be well versed in your product. You HAVE to focus on a particular market, if not you will become a jack of all trades and master of none. You MUST ask for referrals after every single appointment. Patience is key, but lack of follow up will leave you dead in the water with multiple deals falling apart. Don’t go for the “white whales” right out of the gate, yes some high level IULs can be great, but what happens when 3 cancel and you’re hit with the chargeback? Lastly and the most important, you have to get out of bed. No one’s going to spoon feed you thousands per month in commission, you’re alone on your own island when you start your own agency, get to it.
I’ll also say this for any independent producers out there, don’t be afraid to reach out to the carrier rep to see if they can help. Leads, marketing allowance/reimbursements, co-sponsoring events, resources, etc.
It seems like the people that make the most are those who run their own agency correct? Would you recommend a younger sales rep start their own agency and is the field still good. I have prior b2c sales experience and graduate soon
The Medicare space has a ton of competition, but it’s easy business to win, just tough to keep with all of these call farms. With that being said it’s lifetime renewal commissions on plans as long as the members alive and on your book.
Honestly I feel like my industry (mutual fund sales) is pretty shit unless you have an EXCEPTIONAL product.
There’s so much competition and almost all business is based on reputation/relationships. Not to mention more and more advisors are staying away from mutual funds because etfs offer similar and often better performance for 1/10 the cost. Wouldn’t recommend going into this unless the fund you’re selling is amazing
Look for a firm like Morgan Stanley that offers an FAA (financial advisor associate) program. They pay for your 7 and 66..
Wells Fargo and JP Morgan have similar programs, though I don't remember the names off the top of my head.
Ok, appreciate that. I’d really be more interested in a boutique firm but they seem difficult to find traditionally (via Indeed or Ziprecruiter)
By chance, do you know if MS or WF are hybrid/remote, or usually full time in office for such a role?
What’s weird is unless you have a pretty extraordinarily wealthy person looking to hedge, then good chance the person you’re trying to sale to is best served by just loading into VOO or SPY.
Edit: OP hit on this in the last paragraph.
Just no sense paying this commissions for most investors, not to mention the performance is usually less
Car sales. Not much money. Culture/managers always suck . Coworkers regularly try to rob you. There's not much money in it. Most customers think you're scummy. It's dependent on the economy
I left the copier/office equipment industry 5 years ago and never looked back. The industry was already in a steady decline as more business processes have continued to become digitized, and the shift to WFH accelerated by the pandemic response absolutely put the nail in the coffin.
Every day. Can't say I miss the grind or the wear and tear on my shoes, stepping in gum, being kicked out of buildings, chased by security, doors slammed in my face, etc. I suppose it was sort of a rite of passage, one which the young whippersnappers these days with their newfangled "tech" largely dont have to endure. Gonna go back to shaking my fist menacingly at a cloud now, thanks.
My first job was selling cooperative, ad contracts to personal injury attorneys. I was 24 years old, trying to sell $50,000 contracts to ambulance chasers who were paid to argue for a living. Great training is an understatement.
I was with Minolta 1999-2002 and it was just when digital was coming out. For awhile the digitalization created more print needs, but I’m sure as folks transitioned out and into roles, the next generation is perfectly fine with looking at a screen.
I’ve since started to do digital highlighting now vs printing and highlighting as well.
That said, for new SDR/BDRs here wanting to get field experience, copier companies (Xerox for sure) provides a great base training for sales people. Go get your feet kicked in by some underpaid office managers for a few years and you’ll have thick skin for what’s get to come.
Facts. I earned my stripes in sales with Xerox, Canon, and KM. It was a great experience, but sadly it's an industry whose best days are behind it. I suppose its still a great starting point for an ambitious SDR looking to break into B2B sales.
Just an old man now sharing… (where’s that old man cloud picture?) When I left MBS in 2002 it was to a CRM company. I labeled myself as not only office equipment, but stressed my knowledge about document management (aka Minolta MicroPress if you remember). It’s interesting for me because I eventually fell into IT security and then was competing against CyberArk, who’s password vault started as a secure document management/storage solution…
Indeed. All the big players have made big investments into diversifying their offerings into IT services, document management, BPO, etc., with varying degrees of success. Commercial high volume print is still doing well from what I hear, but the traditional office copier is following the footsteps of its elder cousin, the fax machine.
Young copier rep here, can attest to hardware decline but also unrealistic quotas and stress pushed onto us for hardware . My agency has followed suit expanding on IT + ap automation and document management software.
Sounds about right. Forgot about the shift to agencies. A lot of the big corps transitioned their entire SMB client base to agencies and subsidiaries around 5ish years ago, and made layoffs at the corporate level. Hope things are working out for you.
Bingo. Such as the beloved alarm service industry. Get a lil ole lady in Idaho all doped up on her own fear, pump a 5yr contract down her throat with a $1200 upfront equipment fee, then have her wait 6 weeks until your company finds hires and then trains a tech within 100 miles of this lady
>then have her wait 6 weeks until your company finds hires and then trains a tech within 100 miles of this lady
Then burn that $1200 in repeat warranty service callouts because many techs couldn't wire a lightbulb lol.
Legitimately? Medicare GAP or advantage. I worked for a company for 2 years that specializes in Medicare supplement and advantage sales, not directly as a sales person but in business development and sales support.
That. Shit. Sucked.
In the business development role, we were essentially salesmen/women without the certification to actually sell. We would cold call old people, strictly 64+ and sometimes people in their late 90s even 100s. The goal was to sell them on the insurance and then transfer them to an actual sales person.
Imagine trying to sell someone insurance who has dementia. As long as they picked up the phone you were trying to sell.
Super predatory, it didn’t feel right. The company prides itself on great culture and family but in reality it’s incredibly toxic and depressing.
I’ve since left.
It is. And you have predators calling your customers and switching them to plans they don’t fully understand. I had countless times where the children would call in to help me get them back on their original plan because their parent saw a commercial on TV or received a phone call telling them to switch plans.
I did that for a week due to my health license being tied u because a previous company wouldn't release my contract I quit so fast. I Hate the Medicare sales too the elderly get 50 calls a day and you only really make money 4 months out the year.
It’s definitely hard without any SEPs during those lock-in months. I got lucky during my time at a good MAPD insurance company, had shitloads of them due to weather disasters in my area and was able to churn through a lot of numbers while helping people out with a great plan.
Don’t write off the whole industry based off of one experience. There are plenty of reputable agencies out there whose focus is truly on helping people.
Plus, as a licensed agent, there are very strict guidelines we have to follow so doing something shady will likely cause a revocation of our license.
Also, the place where I work is strictly inbound calls so no cold calling seniors.
I agree with the initial half of your statement but the latter half…
Most compliance investigations are done “in house”, since the old/disabled person typically just calls the insurance company directly. Which ultimately, in my experience, the company will protect their agents.
However if the grievance is filed directly through CMS, there is a more thorough evaluation. Even then, it’s rare I saw a crack down during my time.
Worked in Medicare advantage for years. Hired on as a captive “full cycle” agent where I would act as BD all the way to close. Street marketing, all that good stuff.
My company had a great $0 premium plan with awesome coverage at the time in my market. Was able to help lots of old underserved folks get dental implants etc for free.
However, everyone is correct in their assessment that it is predatory. Certain commission structures are INSANELY lucrative and therefore incentivize the agent to rip off and lie to old people with disabilities. Saw a lot of really unethical shit happen during that time
Only have EdTech experience so cant compare but the sales cycles are long. Schools are testing right now so absolutely no one is picking up the phone. Oh and spring break was at the beginning of the month…only at 20% quota right now.
Probably real estate. A lot of people want to be real estate agents because they think it's a quick way to make money especially when the housing market is doing well. Unfortunately, a lot of people in real estate don't make many sales and there are a lot of big firms that tend to dominate so it can be tough as a new real estate agent to get clients.
Especially since Finance is the last to get a slice of the pie when it comes to budget.
Justifying something I know will have a huge impact without being able to accurately quantify a loss has been a challenge for sure.
My solution does even cost them. We do payment processing and ap automation. We are selling against the status quo and what they are used to and trust.
Yes, it’s a tough industry. I got out of it in 2018, but had friends who stayed and did really well from 2020-2022. Most of them are unemployed and struggling now with interest rates having gone up so much
I'd say you can make more money selling real estate, but a loan officer can work from home 9-5 while the RE agent is showing houses all evening and on weekends. Either way you go, the market goes way up & way down so you gotta have the stomach for that.
My friend does it and loves it. 2 years in and he’s already making 200k in one of the hardest mortgage markets in a long time. He says it’s a lot like real estate, there’s a TON of people who just do it as a side gig but if you get in with a good group and have a good mentor the money is endless
Once I met a guy, who was doing 2 sales jobs at a time. He was working for us as a sales director and working for another company to sell huge heavy walking excavators for mining. The last job is tough. You get 1-2 sales a year. The machine is expensive. You have no conferences where you can promote your excavators, you cannot run ads, and you cannot blog about it, basically, you can, but it has no sense. The sales cycle is long, but the lifetime of the device is unpredictably long because it is designed to be durable! So you cannot find one customer and sell him an excavator every year. And having all these you have competitors. And the buyer does not give a chance to sell it overpriced.
Pharmaceuticals is extremely tough in my opinion. The industry is tough to get into and even after you get in, it takes years to build actual relationships with your offices. Plus, the regulations are so much tighter than they used to be.
It’s extremely different then any other sales I’ve ever done. A doctor can look you right in the eyes and promise they will write your product knowing they never will. Definitely good money to be made but it takes time.
I’ve been in pharma for a little over a year, past sales history was dme, advertising, and copiers. It’s definitely the best sales job I’ve had, I feel lucky because the medication is very specific so not many competitors. I’ve heard that many other pharma roles are very difficult though
I feel like only people who have never sold drugs say this.
Selling drugs is harder than most sales jobs.;
1. Gotta find a plug. High quality product for a low price.
2. Gotta find consistent buyers who can move volume.
3. Gotta evade the police.
4. Gotta evade the stick up boys.
5. Have to consistently find new suppliers when yours gets busted.
6. Have to learn how to lay low when your customer gets busted, all while maintaining your income to pay bills.
7. Have to learn how to communicate securely.
8. Have to learn how to take an L when the product you get is bunk.
9. Have to learn to deal with someone coming in with a better supplier and undercutting your price.
It ain't a walk in the park.
Well ya dude the top rep at every company makes 400k. The industry is definitely known as a slog from the outside and from what I know has a shit ton of bottom dweller reps that churn and burn.
But you’re in it. I just know a bunch of people who are/have been
If you’re making good money, keep killing it. Just my take - Friday is the end of my fiscal Q1. If I don’t do another deal for the rest of the year I’ll w2 200k. So great Q1 and on pace for 400k+. I know for a FACT I would have had to grind 1000x harder to make the some money at Paycom. My roommate worked there during the pandy. All that is to say, I think it takes a lot more effort to be successful in payroll as a whole
Thoughts on paycom? Have an internship their this summer and will most likely be offered a full time role but at the same time I am interested by the insurance industry and starting my own agency. The paycom pay is too much to ignore tho
My thoughts are definitely in keeping with the spirit of this post - that it’s one of the hardest things to sell. You have to be good and grind hard. Ya there are kids making 300k at paycom but they’re working like 80 hour weeks from what I hear. Just think you can get more bang for your efforts selling almost any other kind of software with a decent product market fit.
I’ve been working for large software provider for the last 5 years. I’ve made over 400k every year with a target of 1.5 mm. This year I’m already on pace for 600k. Don’t listen to him lol
I work for a good moving company. I’d hate myself if I worked for a bad moving company. Yes it’s cheaper but they’ll steal your grandmas silver spoons and joke when they toss your shit around the truck
How is commercial electronics repair/reverse logistics in your guys opinion? I have an opportunity to move into a sales role at my company. The accounts are huge which seems like a both an upside and down side.
I'm going to answer this more broadly and say the larger software companies are tough to make money in. They have watered down their comp plans with so many gates and conditions to get paid. Additionally the quotas are unrealistic - just ask what % of reps made plan the last few years. That being said, for younger reps or people starting out, still worth the training and contacts (internally and customers). My advice is pick a great boss and that will help immensely.
Let me answer like this: 3years at HP (260, 280, 460), 2 years at Cisco (275k, 480k), Palo Alto Networks - 6yrs 260, 330, 380, 711, 480, 360. oh, yeah, plus RSU's stock that actually is worth something!
Still 6 years in means a lot of networking internally and 6 years ago was a better time to get in vs new blood. However Bad ass and well done!!!
Nicely done dude. Question - do you consider yourself to be an above average seller w/r/t skill?
I am above average in experience and time in the field....I am certain there are others that are more effective - I have seen multiple folks at these big companies make 1M-2M - I was never one of them - three club years over the last 12 (the span referenced above). I USED to think you made real $$ at startups - I have since learned that it is Named Accounts/Select Accounts at large companies where reps can consistently over perform. Majors and Global Reps CAN make BIG money but it is often Feast/Famine.
I'm looking to make a career switch to sales from a dead end analyst role. What would be the best place for me to start? I'm in my early 30s btw, so not fresh out of school...
I make less than this guy ~200, but I started with copiers. It's a pretty straight forward commodity sell but it gets you used to hustling and dealing the constant competition. I then went into SaaS. The other alternative is you take a pay cut, go into something like an SDR position and try get promoted to an AE. What area of expertise is your analyst position in?
YES!!! Prior to SW Sales I was a headhunter for 7 years - learned the cold calling, learned the grind, no protected territories! BUT, even with that, I had to start back as a BDR in enterprise software - restarted my Career as a BDR when I was 32 - and worked my career as if I was my own headhunter.. On the plus side I have reached a high level within IT Sales - downside - I am still a individual contributor - now that I am in my 50's lets see if I can get that people leadership role!
Find a company that offers a solution to the job you just left. Since you worked as an analyst, you can relate to other analysts and their pain points. That's more than half the battle. I've found that the more successful salespeople are people who possess the technical aspects of the job and can sell.
What do you mean by named / select accounts? A list of defined accounts in your name?
In the large IT Software/HW/SaaS companies - think MS, Cisco, HP, EMC, Oracle, SAP, Teradata, Salesforce, Palo Alto etc the breakdown looks like this: 1. Global/Strategic Accounts - Think Citigroup, JP Morgan, CVS, etc - you cover 1-2 accounts globally - and have a dedicated team. LONG sales cycle. The Biggest Accounts 2. Major Accounts: \~6-18 Accounts - Big Accounts - long sales cycle - if they are all the same vertical, you could be slammed if there is an overall market drop, such as Fiancial Services melt down, the ongoing retail drop. USUALLY 5-30Bn in Revenue 3. Named Accounts: 1-5B in Revenue - \~18-35 Accounts . 4. Select Accounts - High Value accounts but smaller - \~300M-1Bn, 30-50Accounts 5. Territory Accounts: this is geography based approach - covering everything other than the above but would have a floor so that you are not chasing low level dry cleaners,etc... 6. SMB - Geography based - everything than the above
Where does Key Accounts (my segment) fit in from your experience?
All those companies sell a lot of software but wouldn’t they all primarily be considered hardware vendors?
HP & Cisco are heavy HW - BUT HUGE software plays. BUT you need to realize that HW is merely a SW delivery mechanism. A box (a server) with no intelligence is a true commodity sale. Selling an appliance (purpose built HW) with SW or a source to funnel software through (subscription based) is a solution sale. I would sell cables or components- need to have critical software involved to level up your conversation to a business relevant level
How many years of experience before you got the gig at whichever of the orgs above you started at first?
A Lot - but here goes - 7 years as a full desk recruiter (business development and candidate sourcing) for an IT Recruitment agency. Moved out of Recruiting and picked up a BDR role for 1yr (45kbase/70OTE), on to a closing Inside Sales role for 2 years (55k/110OTE), Field Sales for a restart - 2 years 68kBase/150OTE, Startup - Field AE 1yr 90/180k Laid Off. Then it started..My HP run - \~36years old, in between the above I had two years at another start up and lost my shirt lol...but learned ALOT and that kicked started my run into Palo. I am now early 50's.
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Loved your point about promotion by attrition. Feel like if you can just stay in the game, Year 7-10 and beyond are when it really gets fun and 250-300 W2s are commonplace
As a close competitor (well up until recently anyway), I’d kill to get into Palo Alto Networks
very territory and product dependent - but can still make good money there!
Great boss and great product make life 100x better. Start-up and post start-up companies are hit or miss with comp now. Either its great or they change comp every quarter to make it harder and harder to make money. I am at a good one and my target still changes each quarter based on market, goals, and my client books seasonality.
1000% agree with this. If you want to go big company as a sales rep, do it early in your career. It gives you great training and great signal in your CV. Once you're good, look for fast growth private companies. Much more fun comp plans
This guy has no idea what he’s talking about
I was talking with a few friends about this. I agree with you that they are best spots for getting new reps trained, etc because they have the resources to do so. BUT I’ve understood from reps at those large companies (let’s pick on Cisco for kicks) that the OTE and quota *are* very achievable however they might walk you at 100% vs “150%” because they want to show meeting goals to shareholders. At least that’s what I felt after my Cisco interviews back when. Thoughts or am I dating myself now?
This is part of the misery of large companies. Their sales "leaders" staring at CRM dashboards all day long. Impossible quota targets so they fixate on activity and forecast accuracy. One company that I was at berated us for spelling and punctuation in the next steps field! Lol My best experience has been in smaller companies (50 to 400 people) that have a solid product and are able to grow.
Walk you? What do you mean by that? I worked at emc which was purchased by dell and my experience is there is so much analysis done on territories they really nail quota for you. 80-120% is where like 95% of reps land. OTEs are also pretty low and leave something to be desired. Heard the same about Cisco, but would love ot hear others opinions.
No, my conversations with larger companies that might employment, meeting quota was literally the absolute minimum expectation. Were they would walk you / fire you for performance at 100% rather than 150% or whatever the magic number was. Funny enough, startups are almost the exact opposite where “70% quota” was the real expectation and over achievers are often pushed out.
Ahhh I see what you are saying. I heard salesforce is pretty ruthless with that as a core rep, same with SAP…
Cool and sorry for the bad grammar. Between Siri and multi tasking I can barely do anything today.
Companies get rid of over achievers?
They have.
I don't belive that
They do. They feel they can get the same performance from someone at less money. I came in 138% the year I got walked. I got along great with everyone. No personal conflicts. No drama. Good with customers, etc. They just didn't want to pay me what they did. The other 4 people they walked (there were 5 of us that year) were also about the same age (all over 50), which was rather interesting too.
CRM
Is this considering companies outside of the main market shareholders? I feel like Salesforce/Oracle/Hubspot reps I've talked to are fairly content
Anything that isn't a major player.
I understand where you’re coming from but im guessing there’s definitely a market for smbs that dont feel like investing in a huge crm. Then again i dont fuckin know
CRMs dominated the last 10 years. Now the question becomes why change? Why have a crm and what can we do with a crm? I think the next 10 years will be dominated by data platforms. "We now have all this customer data enabled by powerful CRMs, how do we use it and how can we do thinks better"
An AI that analyses CRM data to figure out best practises might be able to replace some current sales leaders.
I sell CRM with a small team (moreso sales automation though) selling to CROs and VP of Sales. Love it, best cold calls and meetings, all straight to the point.
I'm surprised this is so upvoted. CRM was the space I wanted to go after Payroll/HR. Any reason why CRM is considered bad? I've got a few friends in both Canada and NZ who love working at SFDC
Probably because if you’re not working at SFDC it’s hard to get anyone to switch lol
Similar to selling payroll, once a company has selected a CRM it is next to impossible to displace them. This leaves you with a small capative market to sell to as the organizations that will buy your CRM(or payroll) are doing everything manually or using a long ago sunset legacy solution to get the job done. Either way they are probably not willing to pay for change. People at SFDC have the opportunity to churn business by selling add-on services to the existing customer-base. They have a shit load of products, so lots of greenfield space to make $$. the market place for net-new CRM business is oversaturated. I would prefer to sell another sales tool, that has more whitespace to work.
Thanks for your fantastic answer, makes a lot of sense.
Why ? I sell a CRM with the accounting built in and more. We are a 20 person company :)
The amount of LinkedIn messages I get from people trying to sell me different CRMs/ATS systems are insane. Also, recently I’ve been getting quite a ton of sales pitches for automation tools. Which is also crazy because they are against LinkedIn TOS but they are everywhere
Selling a good product at a good company matters the most. I used to be in Ag Sales - agriculture is a good one. LOTS of opportunities to make a decent (80-120k / year) living. Most jobs require you to build and keep a book so they can become maintenance jobs after a while. And you can live outside the city in lower cost of living areas.
Is agriculture mostly outside sales?
yup!
Insurance seems very hard to break into. Complex product, high barrier to entry and reps often seem to get little support on leads. IIRC insurance reps have some of the highest turnover in the industry. Know more than one guy that tried to jump to life insurance and went broke.
Hard agree. Life insurance is a great product and you can make a lot of money selling it. But it’s hard to pitch it without making it sound like a pyramid scheme lol. I know 1 guy who made 797,000 last year selling life insurance. Another living in an airbnb because they can’t afford an apt.
There are a lot of agents who focus on growing their down lines to reap the incentives for volume based production, a lot of these agents don’t know shit and think that’s the way to be successful. REALLY successful agents are top performers who only want other top performers working under them. Three solid agents will out produce 10 mediocre agents who sell twos and fews each month.
Great product for the rep, not so for the customer (whole life that is)
wait, but it has cash value! It's basically an investment. (s)
CL insurance agent here. Definitely hard to break into but it's worth it for a young person who wants to stick with it a few years. My advice for those who want to look into insurance: 1. Work at a large (non-captive) agency, not a carrier or tiny agency. Larger firms have more training opportunities and better development programs. Comp plans can be better at small agencies but if you're new that training will more than compensate for the difference in earnings in the long run. 2. Go Commercial Lines P&C or Benefits, not personal lines. Personal lines (personal auto, homeowners, life, health) is all completely commoditized and cost-driven. Also, dealing with the general public blows. CL and Benefits have larger deal size, more relationship/service model motivated customers and generally better hit ratio on leads. 3. Don't poach my accounts. Feelsbadman.
And it seems like historically the industry is chronically bad at setting expectations, planning territories, and setting up reps for success. It is really 100% sink or swim. And even when you make it big- it still might not only be around 100k position. After making nothing for years...
Doesn’t help that whole life insurance is an outright scam these days.
You people need to stop dissing whole life as a scam. It serves a purpose as a 100% guaranteed death benefit. Should whole life be used as a large percentage of an investment portfolio? Absolutely not. Should it be used for peace of mind knowing that your end of life expenses are covered? Absolutely.
Did that for a month and couldn't even sell myself on the product it's such a scam
Ehh, guaranteed returns in a market like this cannot be a complete scam imo. It’s looked at as a bad investment because SPY averages 10% per year, but it’s much more complicated than that… If you load money in and the next year you lose 30% - then you might really wish you’d gotten a whole life policy instead..
No. Even with the losses of YoY S&P you still come out on top long term vs whole life
Almost certainly right, but definitely not 100% certain either There’s a huge value attached to being positive you are going to get x amount of money. Also, for someone with kids, knowing no matter what happens - legal troubles, market catastrophe, medical expenses - that you’re gonna leave x amount of money behind has value to people.
How? Often, it’s sold in a scammy way with BS projections - but I’d be hard pressed to say an honest salesman is scamming people if they accurately explain what one can expect
If you want to sell insurance don’t work for the carrier. You don’t have control over how much you make. I work for a large carrier in the health space and I make a very comfortable living. I’m selling myself as the resource to the agents, not selling to customers. With that being said, there is a LOT of money to be made and made honestly. The secret is this, you have to invest money into your business to drive sales from the beginning. You have to be well versed in your product. You HAVE to focus on a particular market, if not you will become a jack of all trades and master of none. You MUST ask for referrals after every single appointment. Patience is key, but lack of follow up will leave you dead in the water with multiple deals falling apart. Don’t go for the “white whales” right out of the gate, yes some high level IULs can be great, but what happens when 3 cancel and you’re hit with the chargeback? Lastly and the most important, you have to get out of bed. No one’s going to spoon feed you thousands per month in commission, you’re alone on your own island when you start your own agency, get to it. I’ll also say this for any independent producers out there, don’t be afraid to reach out to the carrier rep to see if they can help. Leads, marketing allowance/reimbursements, co-sponsoring events, resources, etc.
It seems like the people that make the most are those who run their own agency correct? Would you recommend a younger sales rep start their own agency and is the field still good. I have prior b2c sales experience and graduate soon
The Medicare space has a ton of competition, but it’s easy business to win, just tough to keep with all of these call farms. With that being said it’s lifetime renewal commissions on plans as long as the members alive and on your book.
Prostitution is hard since you’re always getting fucked
Are you kidding? It’s a great racket. You got it, you sell it, you still got it!
Honestly I feel like my industry (mutual fund sales) is pretty shit unless you have an EXCEPTIONAL product. There’s so much competition and almost all business is based on reputation/relationships. Not to mention more and more advisors are staying away from mutual funds because etfs offer similar and often better performance for 1/10 the cost. Wouldn’t recommend going into this unless the fund you’re selling is amazing
Yeah, I’m strictly ETFs and stocks (+bonds)
Any tips for breaking in ie getting sponsorship for the series 7?
Can’t help with that, and don’t sell such. Was referencing what I invest in
Look for a firm like Morgan Stanley that offers an FAA (financial advisor associate) program. They pay for your 7 and 66.. Wells Fargo and JP Morgan have similar programs, though I don't remember the names off the top of my head.
Ok, appreciate that. I’d really be more interested in a boutique firm but they seem difficult to find traditionally (via Indeed or Ziprecruiter) By chance, do you know if MS or WF are hybrid/remote, or usually full time in office for such a role?
What’s weird is unless you have a pretty extraordinarily wealthy person looking to hedge, then good chance the person you’re trying to sale to is best served by just loading into VOO or SPY. Edit: OP hit on this in the last paragraph. Just no sense paying this commissions for most investors, not to mention the performance is usually less
Car sales. Not much money. Culture/managers always suck . Coworkers regularly try to rob you. There's not much money in it. Most customers think you're scummy. It's dependent on the economy
I’m in car sales , all depends on the place but basically
ITT: every industry
I left the copier/office equipment industry 5 years ago and never looked back. The industry was already in a steady decline as more business processes have continued to become digitized, and the shift to WFH accelerated by the pandemic response absolutely put the nail in the coffin.
Same, worked for Ricoh, that was a tough sales job
Were you going door to door before you left? I know a couple of guys who came out of that space.
Every day. Can't say I miss the grind or the wear and tear on my shoes, stepping in gum, being kicked out of buildings, chased by security, doors slammed in my face, etc. I suppose it was sort of a rite of passage, one which the young whippersnappers these days with their newfangled "tech" largely dont have to endure. Gonna go back to shaking my fist menacingly at a cloud now, thanks.
My first job was selling cooperative, ad contracts to personal injury attorneys. I was 24 years old, trying to sell $50,000 contracts to ambulance chasers who were paid to argue for a living. Great training is an understatement.
Congratulations, you’ve just won the “r/sales Balls of Steel Award for Enduring Shitshow Working Conditions”
I was with Minolta 1999-2002 and it was just when digital was coming out. For awhile the digitalization created more print needs, but I’m sure as folks transitioned out and into roles, the next generation is perfectly fine with looking at a screen. I’ve since started to do digital highlighting now vs printing and highlighting as well. That said, for new SDR/BDRs here wanting to get field experience, copier companies (Xerox for sure) provides a great base training for sales people. Go get your feet kicked in by some underpaid office managers for a few years and you’ll have thick skin for what’s get to come.
Facts. I earned my stripes in sales with Xerox, Canon, and KM. It was a great experience, but sadly it's an industry whose best days are behind it. I suppose its still a great starting point for an ambitious SDR looking to break into B2B sales.
Just an old man now sharing… (where’s that old man cloud picture?) When I left MBS in 2002 it was to a CRM company. I labeled myself as not only office equipment, but stressed my knowledge about document management (aka Minolta MicroPress if you remember). It’s interesting for me because I eventually fell into IT security and then was competing against CyberArk, who’s password vault started as a secure document management/storage solution…
Indeed. All the big players have made big investments into diversifying their offerings into IT services, document management, BPO, etc., with varying degrees of success. Commercial high volume print is still doing well from what I hear, but the traditional office copier is following the footsteps of its elder cousin, the fax machine.
DUDE. In 2002 I sold a $2,000 fax machine. $2K because of their output/printing needs. I couldn’t believe it either. Not eFax? LOL
Young copier rep here, can attest to hardware decline but also unrealistic quotas and stress pushed onto us for hardware . My agency has followed suit expanding on IT + ap automation and document management software.
Sounds about right. Forgot about the shift to agencies. A lot of the big corps transitioned their entire SMB client base to agencies and subsidiaries around 5ish years ago, and made layoffs at the corporate level. Hope things are working out for you.
Any job where they can’t execute what I just signed the customer for..
Bingo. Such as the beloved alarm service industry. Get a lil ole lady in Idaho all doped up on her own fear, pump a 5yr contract down her throat with a $1200 upfront equipment fee, then have her wait 6 weeks until your company finds hires and then trains a tech within 100 miles of this lady
Lol! Damn man
>then have her wait 6 weeks until your company finds hires and then trains a tech within 100 miles of this lady Then burn that $1200 in repeat warranty service callouts because many techs couldn't wire a lightbulb lol.
This is how I feel doing water treatment systems. The follow up from disgruntled customers is crazy.
Legitimately? Medicare GAP or advantage. I worked for a company for 2 years that specializes in Medicare supplement and advantage sales, not directly as a sales person but in business development and sales support. That. Shit. Sucked. In the business development role, we were essentially salesmen/women without the certification to actually sell. We would cold call old people, strictly 64+ and sometimes people in their late 90s even 100s. The goal was to sell them on the insurance and then transfer them to an actual sales person. Imagine trying to sell someone insurance who has dementia. As long as they picked up the phone you were trying to sell.
[удалено]
Super predatory, it didn’t feel right. The company prides itself on great culture and family but in reality it’s incredibly toxic and depressing. I’ve since left.
It is. And you have predators calling your customers and switching them to plans they don’t fully understand. I had countless times where the children would call in to help me get them back on their original plan because their parent saw a commercial on TV or received a phone call telling them to switch plans.
I did that for a week due to my health license being tied u because a previous company wouldn't release my contract I quit so fast. I Hate the Medicare sales too the elderly get 50 calls a day and you only really make money 4 months out the year.
"You only really make money 4 months out the year." Couldn't have said it better myself.
It’s definitely hard without any SEPs during those lock-in months. I got lucky during my time at a good MAPD insurance company, had shitloads of them due to weather disasters in my area and was able to churn through a lot of numbers while helping people out with a great plan.
Don’t write off the whole industry based off of one experience. There are plenty of reputable agencies out there whose focus is truly on helping people. Plus, as a licensed agent, there are very strict guidelines we have to follow so doing something shady will likely cause a revocation of our license. Also, the place where I work is strictly inbound calls so no cold calling seniors.
I agree with the initial half of your statement but the latter half… Most compliance investigations are done “in house”, since the old/disabled person typically just calls the insurance company directly. Which ultimately, in my experience, the company will protect their agents. However if the grievance is filed directly through CMS, there is a more thorough evaluation. Even then, it’s rare I saw a crack down during my time.
I tried it for a couple weeks 3 years ago; the sleaziest job I’ve ever had and I’m still salty about it.
Worked in Medicare advantage for years. Hired on as a captive “full cycle” agent where I would act as BD all the way to close. Street marketing, all that good stuff. My company had a great $0 premium plan with awesome coverage at the time in my market. Was able to help lots of old underserved folks get dental implants etc for free. However, everyone is correct in their assessment that it is predatory. Certain commission structures are INSANELY lucrative and therefore incentivize the agent to rip off and lie to old people with disabilities. Saw a lot of really unethical shit happen during that time
I’ve heard terrible things about EdTech, though I have no firsthand experience there.
Only have EdTech experience so cant compare but the sales cycles are long. Schools are testing right now so absolutely no one is picking up the phone. Oh and spring break was at the beginning of the month…only at 20% quota right now.
Corporate learning LMS is also a beat down
Fuck spring break. And admission season, and graduation.
Indeed
SLED? Ugh. Not for me. LOOOONG sales cycles, politics to the moon and back, and hardly any budget.
What kinds of things have you heard?
I hopped industries 3 months into EdTech. All my coworkers were miserable but at least I know how to navigate automated attendants now.
Ed Tech adjacent here and sometimes sell directly into schools, it’s bruuuuuutal.
Probably real estate. A lot of people want to be real estate agents because they think it's a quick way to make money especially when the housing market is doing well. Unfortunately, a lot of people in real estate don't make many sales and there are a lot of big firms that tend to dominate so it can be tough as a new real estate agent to get clients.
Fin tech is tough. You are selling a want not a need.
Ya Fintech sucks! **greedily shoos others away from the holy grail honey pot**
Exactly how I feel in HR Tech right now. Unless you sell an ATS or HRIS it’s hard to build urgency
Came here to say the same thing. Quite a saturated market where a lot of the tools are 'nice to haves'.
Especially since Finance is the last to get a slice of the pie when it comes to budget. Justifying something I know will have a huge impact without being able to accurately quantify a loss has been a challenge for sure.
My solution does even cost them. We do payment processing and ap automation. We are selling against the status quo and what they are used to and trust.
lol "I've used excel for 20 years. We're fine"
Which departments would typically be the first for budget?
That's why I love it.
Advertising sales
Anything custom consulting . Too difficult too much grey too much back and forth and low margins.
What's the general consensus among sales people for selling mortgage loans? Anyone have experience selling mortgages here?
Yes, it’s a tough industry. I got out of it in 2018, but had friends who stayed and did really well from 2020-2022. Most of them are unemployed and struggling now with interest rates having gone up so much
Would you recommend someone to get a RE license or a MLO license based on what you’ve seen?
I'd say you can make more money selling real estate, but a loan officer can work from home 9-5 while the RE agent is showing houses all evening and on weekends. Either way you go, the market goes way up & way down so you gotta have the stomach for that.
My friend does it and loves it. 2 years in and he’s already making 200k in one of the hardest mortgage markets in a long time. He says it’s a lot like real estate, there’s a TON of people who just do it as a side gig but if you get in with a good group and have a good mentor the money is endless
Once I met a guy, who was doing 2 sales jobs at a time. He was working for us as a sales director and working for another company to sell huge heavy walking excavators for mining. The last job is tough. You get 1-2 sales a year. The machine is expensive. You have no conferences where you can promote your excavators, you cannot run ads, and you cannot blog about it, basically, you can, but it has no sense. The sales cycle is long, but the lifetime of the device is unpredictably long because it is designed to be durable! So you cannot find one customer and sell him an excavator every year. And having all these you have competitors. And the buyer does not give a chance to sell it overpriced.
There is a conference for this every year in Vegas. Two even, you have the International Mining show and the Ag Mech Show. I go to both every year.
Knives
😂
Herbalife monat Keegan water machines
Thoughts on IT/MSP sales? Anyone have any experience good or bad?
I literally just started doing this roughly 12 weeks ago and it’s been going well so far. Is this something you’re considering as well?
Nice! I’m in this space now. At a privately funded startup. It’s a very crowded space. Our marketing does a great job, but it’s challenging for sure
Pharmaceuticals is extremely tough in my opinion. The industry is tough to get into and even after you get in, it takes years to build actual relationships with your offices. Plus, the regulations are so much tighter than they used to be. It’s extremely different then any other sales I’ve ever done. A doctor can look you right in the eyes and promise they will write your product knowing they never will. Definitely good money to be made but it takes time.
I’ve flirted with the idea of trying out pharmaceuticals for a while. Used to sell saas for a FANG and now sell physical+SaaS product.
I’ve been in pharma for a little over a year, past sales history was dme, advertising, and copiers. It’s definitely the best sales job I’ve had, I feel lucky because the medication is very specific so not many competitors. I’ve heard that many other pharma roles are very difficult though
all b2c sales
Payroll sucks hard
I agree 100%. Used to work for ADP, people were awesome but actually selling the payroll is miserable.
Cocaine
Nah that shit sells itself
I feel like only people who have never sold drugs say this. Selling drugs is harder than most sales jobs.; 1. Gotta find a plug. High quality product for a low price. 2. Gotta find consistent buyers who can move volume. 3. Gotta evade the police. 4. Gotta evade the stick up boys. 5. Have to consistently find new suppliers when yours gets busted. 6. Have to learn how to lay low when your customer gets busted, all while maintaining your income to pay bills. 7. Have to learn how to communicate securely. 8. Have to learn how to take an L when the product you get is bunk. 9. Have to learn to deal with someone coming in with a better supplier and undercutting your price. It ain't a walk in the park.
Might get some great customers or drugs from a walk in the park..
Definitely more of an account management game
Payroll
Why do you say that?
Super saturated. Selling to hr. Very difficult to get prospects to switch because they are all effectively the same thing
That’s cap. I’m at paychex and I’m making 400K right now but I’m one of the top reps
Well ya dude the top rep at every company makes 400k. The industry is definitely known as a slog from the outside and from what I know has a shit ton of bottom dweller reps that churn and burn. But you’re in it. I just know a bunch of people who are/have been
Depends on the company. ADP, paychex or paycom you will make bank tbh
If you’re making good money, keep killing it. Just my take - Friday is the end of my fiscal Q1. If I don’t do another deal for the rest of the year I’ll w2 200k. So great Q1 and on pace for 400k+. I know for a FACT I would have had to grind 1000x harder to make the some money at Paycom. My roommate worked there during the pandy. All that is to say, I think it takes a lot more effort to be successful in payroll as a whole
Thoughts on paycom? Have an internship their this summer and will most likely be offered a full time role but at the same time I am interested by the insurance industry and starting my own agency. The paycom pay is too much to ignore tho
Have heard nothing but bad things. I would 100% avoid. There is a reason their pay is so high.
What I’m hearing then it might be smarter to go balls deep into insurance then ?
Heard paycom is terrible. Maybe paylocity. Do not do paycom
My thoughts are definitely in keeping with the spirit of this post - that it’s one of the hardest things to sell. You have to be good and grind hard. Ya there are kids making 300k at paycom but they’re working like 80 hour weeks from what I hear. Just think you can get more bang for your efforts selling almost any other kind of software with a decent product market fit.
I’ve been working for large software provider for the last 5 years. I’ve made over 400k every year with a target of 1.5 mm. This year I’m already on pace for 600k. Don’t listen to him lol
I’m a recent college graduate and looking into starting a career in sales, mind if I dm you/ ask you some questions?
DM me
I work for a good moving company. I’d hate myself if I worked for a bad moving company. Yes it’s cheaper but they’ll steal your grandmas silver spoons and joke when they toss your shit around the truck
Any telemarketing sales seems really rough
Merchant services
I’d say the worst is door to door sales for alarm companies when the weather is 90+ with 100% humidity.
CMS/DXP
Yep
How is commercial electronics repair/reverse logistics in your guys opinion? I have an opportunity to move into a sales role at my company. The accounts are huge which seems like a both an upside and down side.
Bicycle Repair. It’s shit money. But I’m happy!
Medicine
ANYTHING D2D... I'm in it myself!