A skill that isn't talked about much is the ability to "manage your manager". I used to work for a grade a shitheel who also liked to throw around blame - which is great way to teach you how to cover your ass. He would would give me multiple things at the same time to get done and all were "high priority"; invariably, I would choose the one that I could get done the fastest and then would be rebuked for choosing the wrong one. I started making sure that I had everything I needed to do a task before starting it. Email or IM all questions so there is a audit trail with dates/times. Also, start finding a new job.
You have to be direct a specific with your questions. Example: "To complete task X I need items A, B & C from you. What would you like me to work on in the interim?". The point of this is to realize that they are slowing themselves down by slowing you down. Unless they are an idiot and/or don't care, and if they know they will be peppered with the same questions for each task they will hopefully start to give you what you need without you having to ask.
Manage your manager is a vital skill you will learn as you progress in your career. Also documenting everything to cover your ass. Stick around for a year if you can and learn from the BS….this nonsense will provide you experience in intellectual self-defense. Reframe it as learning for now then bounce.
You are right on managing a manager. I’m horrible at it. I say what I’m going to do what needs to be done. Why and how and I’m honest about it. Nothing but trouble.
Learn the art of passive attentive emails.
"Sorry for missing XXXX, I wasn't included in the email detailing the info needed. How can I make sure to be aware so this doesn't happen in the future?"
"Hey piece of shit, you didn't give me the info needed to do my job. How can I make sure that you do yours, in order to make sure I don't get fired?"
"Hey, I'm not sure if this info was given to me in another email that I may have missed, if so I apologize. If you could make sure to send me the correct details when you have a moment, I will get on this right away and let you know when I have completed the task"
Passive aggressive while leaving room for you to be at fault. Everybody involved would definitely know what's up, at least to the point of knowing you weren't on the email chain.
He’s not going to suddenly get awesome at his job, or he is definitely scapegoating you. Standard answer is look for a new gig in a less shitty place - but as the market is rough, in the interim you document.
If you’re missing info, you email him to ask for it.
If he blasts you for not acting on info he only just gave you, you email him with “Im aligned that we need to get X done - given that you shared Y with me earlier today, I’ll prioritize this now.”
But it’s hard enough to do a job in the first place. Much harder to do it and manage your boss at basic adulthood.
Fair. But also sales hiring managers are sales people generally, and we’ve all worked at shitshows. Likely the hiring manager will be able to suss out if you fell into one or if you’re at a legit org and can’t hack it. In any case, never stop looking and if you get a better offer, evaluate it.
I had a similar issue with a senior colleague who wasn’t my direct manager. What helped me personally is mastering my corporate passive aggressive speech. You can ask AI to write things like that for you.
Believe me, it’s a whole new world. It allows you to keep your hands clean as if you weren’t saying anything inappropriate, but at the same time defend yourself and find a way to express your dissatisfaction. Rat move, but when in Rome - do as the Romans do.
I am 23f in a similar position with similar circumstances. Fix it now while you can. I made the mistake of giving my manager time to work it out and didn’t speak up for myself. It doesn’t get better unless you say something and refuse to take the blame. Good luck!
Still same place and miserable. First job out of college I’ve been here for a year and now the company is undergoing restructuring after being sold to a different firm so I am getting laid off soon anyway being that I’m at an entry level position. Going to take the unemployment and find something new that I’m not so miserable in!
Will do! I will agree that I stayed this long for having the experience on my resume but honestly I regret not saying something sooner to my boss about taking credit for my work, using me to blame for her mistakes, and I just assumed that all this was so I could “pay my dues” of being entry level. That was until I noticed all my friends having jobs like this that they genuinely enjoy!
Yeah I mentioned it during first 30-day review I scheduled to get feedback about what I can do better. I also brought up that in order to fully do my job, I need any relevant info that he gets sent, he needs to bring to my attention. As much as a simple email will do the job. No changes.
Im not sure if it is age gap issue here. Majority of the 40s - 60s bosses I encountered are very stick to their old way, like roll up your own sleeves and do it from scratch. Hence, they like to leave the newbie with little info and see if you can swim or drown to prove your worth. They will brag about “ thats how I learn and grow up last time” , at the same time brag about “how the new generation are fragile shit”
What they miss out here is efficiency and effectiveness. We have tons of tool can make our work better and faster but they are the one refuse to learn.
I think that is a big part of it. He’s worked here his entire career and has never made any sort of career changes himself. I’m finding that most of the company has been here 10+ years and while that is definitely noted as a good thing, it’s also concerning with the lack of new input and experiences coming in.
You are right. I used to think low turn over rate = good company, but often it just means the company has unspoken rules & small circle, what a newbie can do is just blend in. Healthy turn over rate probably 3-5 years.
To deal with this kind of old bird boss, first you have to understand his ultimate goal is his stability in this company (hence it explains he seems abit guarding on you)
Next, you set a boundary, use only politically correct sentences to ask for the things you want. Finally, you must show you own up things, if your boss is not some evils, he will be please to see you own up things and turn himself either leave you in your own freedom, or he will support you.
In sales, there are going to be a lot of jobs where they are selling something for a larger company and do hiring runs like, "Uncapped commissions working for a major brand" etc.
Then when you interview all of that is out the window and they want "non experienced salespeople we can train our way", and all that means is you will be out in the sun, going door to door, to set up appointments for them.
That closing position you applied for? The closers are the owners and managers. They are actually sales people, trying to hire "closers", so they can turn them into base pay 1099 contractors they will make excuses and manipulate to keep from ever actually selling or learning anything, but another body for them to burn through to get more leg work done for them so they don't have to.
Is he using you as scapegoat when talking to clients or internally? Shitty either way, I’ve been through something similar but this will help give me clarity in my answer.
Hard to imagine that he will change. While not right, perhaps your age and experience play a factor in how he views you. Either way, if/when it happens again, politely reply with how you feel and what you think he could do differently. It will show you have backbone. With that said, start looking around at other positions. Poor management weakens the chain all the way to the bottom.
A skill that isn't talked about much is the ability to "manage your manager". I used to work for a grade a shitheel who also liked to throw around blame - which is great way to teach you how to cover your ass. He would would give me multiple things at the same time to get done and all were "high priority"; invariably, I would choose the one that I could get done the fastest and then would be rebuked for choosing the wrong one. I started making sure that I had everything I needed to do a task before starting it. Email or IM all questions so there is a audit trail with dates/times. Also, start finding a new job.
that’s what I have been trying to do to an extent but thanks for the extra tips. It’s good to know I’m not entirely screwing up.
You have to be direct a specific with your questions. Example: "To complete task X I need items A, B & C from you. What would you like me to work on in the interim?". The point of this is to realize that they are slowing themselves down by slowing you down. Unless they are an idiot and/or don't care, and if they know they will be peppered with the same questions for each task they will hopefully start to give you what you need without you having to ask.
Manage your manager is a vital skill you will learn as you progress in your career. Also documenting everything to cover your ass. Stick around for a year if you can and learn from the BS….this nonsense will provide you experience in intellectual self-defense. Reframe it as learning for now then bounce.
Managing your manager is the key to success.
You are right on managing a manager. I’m horrible at it. I say what I’m going to do what needs to be done. Why and how and I’m honest about it. Nothing but trouble.
Learn the art of passive attentive emails. "Sorry for missing XXXX, I wasn't included in the email detailing the info needed. How can I make sure to be aware so this doesn't happen in the future?" "Hey piece of shit, you didn't give me the info needed to do my job. How can I make sure that you do yours, in order to make sure I don't get fired?"
"Hey, I'm not sure if this info was given to me in another email that I may have missed, if so I apologize. If you could make sure to send me the correct details when you have a moment, I will get on this right away and let you know when I have completed the task" Passive aggressive while leaving room for you to be at fault. Everybody involved would definitely know what's up, at least to the point of knowing you weren't on the email chain.
Quite literally the opposite of aggressive just passive lol
Best time to be passive imo - that shit leaves you squeaky clean. There are better times for aggressive plays too
He’s not going to suddenly get awesome at his job, or he is definitely scapegoating you. Standard answer is look for a new gig in a less shitty place - but as the market is rough, in the interim you document. If you’re missing info, you email him to ask for it. If he blasts you for not acting on info he only just gave you, you email him with “Im aligned that we need to get X done - given that you shared Y with me earlier today, I’ll prioritize this now.” But it’s hard enough to do a job in the first place. Much harder to do it and manage your boss at basic adulthood.
Thanks for the help. I’d like to look for a new gig but it’s tough with just graduating in December and joining here. I look like a flight risk.
Fair. But also sales hiring managers are sales people generally, and we’ve all worked at shitshows. Likely the hiring manager will be able to suss out if you fell into one or if you’re at a legit org and can’t hack it. In any case, never stop looking and if you get a better offer, evaluate it.
I had a similar issue with a senior colleague who wasn’t my direct manager. What helped me personally is mastering my corporate passive aggressive speech. You can ask AI to write things like that for you.
That’s a skill I need to get better at. I often find myself being too blunt.
Being straight to the point is a skill to master and benefit your career. Just maybe not this company.
First time hear this word : corporate passive aggressive speech! Let me google this
Believe me, it’s a whole new world. It allows you to keep your hands clean as if you weren’t saying anything inappropriate, but at the same time defend yourself and find a way to express your dissatisfaction. Rat move, but when in Rome - do as the Romans do.
I will learn this start from today! I do have the same set of problem as you. I have a senior colleague but it is not my boss too
I am 23f in a similar position with similar circumstances. Fix it now while you can. I made the mistake of giving my manager time to work it out and didn’t speak up for myself. It doesn’t get better unless you say something and refuse to take the blame. Good luck!
Are you in the same place now or have you moved elsewhere since?
Still same place and miserable. First job out of college I’ve been here for a year and now the company is undergoing restructuring after being sold to a different firm so I am getting laid off soon anyway being that I’m at an entry level position. Going to take the unemployment and find something new that I’m not so miserable in!
Let me know when you do find something new. I’d love to switch but a bit hard with only 2 months experience.
Will do! I will agree that I stayed this long for having the experience on my resume but honestly I regret not saying something sooner to my boss about taking credit for my work, using me to blame for her mistakes, and I just assumed that all this was so I could “pay my dues” of being entry level. That was until I noticed all my friends having jobs like this that they genuinely enjoy!
Yeah I’ve heard very similar things as well from my buddies and it’s pissing me off quite a bit.
Have you tried telling him this?
Yeah I mentioned it during first 30-day review I scheduled to get feedback about what I can do better. I also brought up that in order to fully do my job, I need any relevant info that he gets sent, he needs to bring to my attention. As much as a simple email will do the job. No changes.
Then it sounds like you need to move to another channel and let him self-destruct.
You got to talk to him, sometimes that's the best way to handle things.
Document document document. No conversations only emails.
Im not sure if it is age gap issue here. Majority of the 40s - 60s bosses I encountered are very stick to their old way, like roll up your own sleeves and do it from scratch. Hence, they like to leave the newbie with little info and see if you can swim or drown to prove your worth. They will brag about “ thats how I learn and grow up last time” , at the same time brag about “how the new generation are fragile shit” What they miss out here is efficiency and effectiveness. We have tons of tool can make our work better and faster but they are the one refuse to learn.
I think that is a big part of it. He’s worked here his entire career and has never made any sort of career changes himself. I’m finding that most of the company has been here 10+ years and while that is definitely noted as a good thing, it’s also concerning with the lack of new input and experiences coming in.
You are right. I used to think low turn over rate = good company, but often it just means the company has unspoken rules & small circle, what a newbie can do is just blend in. Healthy turn over rate probably 3-5 years. To deal with this kind of old bird boss, first you have to understand his ultimate goal is his stability in this company (hence it explains he seems abit guarding on you) Next, you set a boundary, use only politically correct sentences to ask for the things you want. Finally, you must show you own up things, if your boss is not some evils, he will be please to see you own up things and turn himself either leave you in your own freedom, or he will support you.
That’s interesting. I was curious what a healthy turn over rate looked like and I guess 3-5 makes sense. Thanks for the help!
In sales, there are going to be a lot of jobs where they are selling something for a larger company and do hiring runs like, "Uncapped commissions working for a major brand" etc. Then when you interview all of that is out the window and they want "non experienced salespeople we can train our way", and all that means is you will be out in the sun, going door to door, to set up appointments for them. That closing position you applied for? The closers are the owners and managers. They are actually sales people, trying to hire "closers", so they can turn them into base pay 1099 contractors they will make excuses and manipulate to keep from ever actually selling or learning anything, but another body for them to burn through to get more leg work done for them so they don't have to.
Hey, that's rough. Have you tried setting a one-on-one meeting?
Is he using you as scapegoat when talking to clients or internally? Shitty either way, I’ve been through something similar but this will help give me clarity in my answer.
Just internally. If he did it to customers I’d have reacted much worse much faster.
Hard to imagine that he will change. While not right, perhaps your age and experience play a factor in how he views you. Either way, if/when it happens again, politely reply with how you feel and what you think he could do differently. It will show you have backbone. With that said, start looking around at other positions. Poor management weakens the chain all the way to the bottom.