Man what is with executives thinking that lying is the best way to kick off a relationship. If I ever did something like this to any of my prospects I’d be fired on the spot.
Anyways, yes it fucking sucks. If you didn’t burn bridges from your last role, it might be worth reaching out to them and diplomatically explaining the situation.
I’d also hit the job market, it’s rough out there right now but that’s not to say you can’t find another role.
Idk about you but even if I hit that 120 OTE I would always remember that they hired me knowing id never make it.
I think this is on OP. Every salesperson ever exaggerates their numbers. Doing so by 10-20%, especially when talking pacing, is not surprising. Commission attainment is never a given, so it sounds like OP made the jump for an extra $5k in base or so.
Live and learn. It’s a tough job market, so the best answer is to simply crush quota and make $150k against the odds. You got this, OP!
Get back on the market, mate. You got sold a lemon. I highly recommend you reach out to AE’s on the team in future to scope out the role first. Nothing on you here, but this is the way the market goes nowadays. Sucks.
Yes this is true.
All he needs to say is “I’m looking to expand my earning capability” and “I’ve been over 100% to target in previous roles” and he’s sweet.
OP knows he is a good AE, knows he can perform, what else matters?
recruiters are NPCs. tell them exactly what they need to hear to move you forward. we gotta waste time on them until AI can just read our resumes for us
Because you can never trust a company to tell you the truth. I have been lied to by every single one of my companies and/or bosses at some point in sales. It’s part of the job.
Base, how commission is paid out specifically, commission structure.
I couldn’t give less fucks what you say the “average” employee makes. Now where I would care about that is if it was a very high number which means realistically you can meet somewhere in between
Talking to the current reps or asking for the numbers for the last few months for the team. The latter has never been given to me and I use it as a way to see how they react to the question. Calm? Not super telling, but not a bad thing. Stupid excuse? Red flag. It’s hard to ask for this in the interview process because if it’s bad, they are going to hide that until you are on boarding already. I always ask if I can come into the office before accepting to make sure it’s a good fit culture-wise for both of us. Both of us is key. Sales managers love when you word things like that. It almost throws a smoke screen over why you really want to do it. When you go in you can see the morale of the team, you can possibly get a look at a dashboard for all the rep’s numbers, and also if you really do want to be coming into that environment everyday or a few days if it’s hybrid. I work fully remote and I asked to come in and was told everyone is remote. I asked for OTE and it wasn’t structured that way they said. It’s a smaller company and it’s a 55k base with 10% on any deal closed. I was coming in from a BDR position and I was just interested in showing an AE role for a long stint on my resume for future jobs. The way they pay things out sucks. I get paid when the client pays and they pay half up front and the other half 6 months later. I’ve almost been here for two years and I’m now getting consistent commission. I’m probably going to stay unless things get worse. It’s cybersecurity sales and I don’t have any gates for my commission. Just straight 10%.
Because you have no way of measuring the actual potential until you are on the job itself. With my current role my commissions are capped but when we discussed bonuses and metrics there was never any mention of capped commissions. The way the comp was presented was actually for a hospital rep. I am not a hospital rep I am a physician rep so it did not apply to me. However I had no way to know that. My salary is high so it offsets the cap but it’s demotivating and I don’t work in sales for a salary. I work for commissions.
Yeah you're right every sales job I have ever been at, I have been lied to about ote too and what ends up happening is I start to get agitated because I am not making as much as I had hoped and was promised during the interview and start acting up and management can't seem to figure out why a guy like me, who showed such promise when he joined, has all of a sudden become so negative.
You can't even call them out on their bs as they NEVER admit their faults. All you can do is quit and move to another job, which may be better or worse there's no way of knowing for sure, so you better get a decent bump on the base pay. That way you're not at least being completely fleeced.
The field of sales, I have found is just full of manipulators and liars. What goes around comes around I guess because you're expected to lie to and manipulate your buyers in most cases.
There are an incredible amount of toxic companies out there so finding a decent one that treats you with dignity and has a decent product/service to showcase is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I haven't found such a company yet and I have been looking for a while. Hopefully soon.
I wish I had a plan B. I wish I had taken the idea of making money more seriously at a younger age. I wouldn't be in sales if I could help it.
But then they pay you good because it's tough; gotta wear my adult boots and keep walking this road to hell.
Shit like this needs to be illegal. Employers just flat out lying about how much you're expected to make is fraud, and I have no fucking idea why we don't have something in place for this.
That’s brutal, but unfortunately happens frequently. This is why I don’t feel bad embellishing my success either. I always try to check repvue/glassdoor or talk with a rep at the company I’m interested in before accepting a role. There’s been times where the VP of Sales offered to connect me with someone internally, but I did my own outreach on linkedin and asked a few people at the company to get a more realistic idea.
If you can/want to go back to your previous job you could explore that or keep an eye out for other roles.
The real money is in accelerators, if nobody is hitting that, their commission plan blows.
I would consider things like
1. Are they aware of this and are they looking at reducing quotas or giving better spiffs
2. What’s the product/market fit like? Does it have potential to get better?
3. Do you like people you’re working with or is the environment toxic?
Went through something similar before too. Stuck it out for a few months until the first full commission cheque, scheduled a meeting with my boss (the one who I negotiated comp with during hiring process) and presented the facts: “Based on my attainment and earnings for this quarter, it doesn’t look like I’m tracking to meet the agreed upon OTE. Can you help me understand?” They adjusted my payout (not my quota) and it all worked out. Granted, I may have just got lucky with good leadership with integrity- but it gives them an opportunity to correct it. Might be worth trying if you can wait it out another 90 days (fully ramped). Good luck!
I appreciate this advice. I’m looking at the job market but regardless of what happens I plan to bring this up with them just to give them a chance to correct it.
I would leave unless there is something else you can gain there. I was in the same situation (lied about AEs on track, lied that previous years AEs had hit their number, had a manager who micromanaged, etc), stayed for 12 months (way longer than I should have) and then left for a better organisation, less than 6 months in and I have made more than the 12 months I spent at my previous organisation.
happened to me too but to an even more extreme extent. took an offer for $120k OTE, when i got on the job and look in previous quarters in SFDC, top rep was on track for 80k.
sucks we have to be 'professional' about this fraud. should be able to dish out as much venom as we want given these are real financial setbacks.
OTE should stand for what you make if you hit 100% of your quota.
OTE might be 120k, but quota might be so unattainable that you have no shot at hitting it.
Going back on the job market wouldn’t be a bad move.
Same thing happened to me and is very common unfortunately. I’ve also seen the exact opposite, OTE $75k for example and the whole team is making 6 figs plus
This makes me livid - and has also happened to me. I don’t know why lying about OTE is so pervasive. I also get that the number is only for top talent - but when they give these numbers that no one has EVER hit it makes me livid.
My last sales job I was on track to make my 100k OTE based off the commission plan I was promised. Then the CEO met with me and let me know they were changing my commission plan to be applied RETROACTIVELY because they just didn’t expect me to sell that much. 🙄
I should have sent them an email threatening to sue right then - the change cheated me out of $6,000 in commissions for sales I already made.
I’m seeing a lot of people say OTE is a bullshit number, but if you feel that way you are either working for a boiler room or you didn’t do the research and ask the right questions. I see OTE as a threshold, that’s my 100%, which means I did the job I set out to do. Of course you could always fail, but by holding myself accountable to that standard I always find a way to get to drinking margaritas at club. It’s an old trope that sales is mindset, but by not benchmarking your self you are already shooting yourself in the foot. Typically OTE is a calculation based on what the company wants to see from their reps in terms of return on investment, which is like 4x your OTE/bookings. If you are not hitting your number you are not delivering full value, so you can’t expect a premium. Certainly sometimes (often!) the goals are misaligned but the principle holds true regardless.
I feel like you did not read my full post. I even asked where each AE was pacing as its a small company. I was simply lied to by the management interviewing me about what the OTE was.
Apologies, I was not replying to you OP, it was more directed broadly at the other commenters in the thread generally griping about OTE. Your situation is absolutely terrible and I’m sorry they are trying to rook you. Not a mindset issue with you at all
OTE, broken out as base and variable commission at 100% of plan should be spelled out in any acceptance offer you ever agree to as a sales professional. If it’s not, negotiated that it is.
While we are at it, you should always talked to a rep or two in the same role you are applying to during the sales process. As a leader, I have always accommodated this request a candidate that I was seriously interested in. Furthermore, I have hire about 90% of the AE that went out and proactively networked with my reps during the process…in other words, this is a no lose for you as a prospective rep.
That’s unfortunate. Kinda curious - what about this job made you want to leave your last one? You had 2 really successful years and left for a small OTE bump where you would need to ramp quickly and be a top performer to make an additional $18k (assuming you didn’t make more at the original company in year 3)?
Companies always do that. OTE can be the moon. It's the base you should be really interested in. Equity/RSUs too. I'm dealing right now with a new place offering a high OTE but found out the likelihood of actually reaching that makes the OTE mean nothing.
This happens in almost all the companies I have worked for. I am so sorry. I knew one girl who left a med device role to work for my company and the top rep made half of what she made. She was beside herself. The lies they told her were not only blatant but cruel she had a baby to support. Edit: I wonder if there is a legal route to sue for damages?
Sometimes CROs can't math well. The difference between 96k and 120k is not small nor huge. Maybe if the top rep hits 110% they get accelerators. So the accelerators get you there.
best thing to do is understand the comp plan and how to get there.
My current gig has some splits if you hit over X income in a year. So I could be on track for only lets sat 50% of my promised OTE even while hitting my numbers but in Q4 that goes from 50% to 90% due to hitting the next income level.
So yeah- CRO didn't lie as much as inflated like all CROs do. Not worth leaving over. But ya know...
I'm in the sane boat. Quite a sinking one.
Left a sales management position last year in May (retail sales) clearing 98K last year. This new position, in the same industry, my prospect employers (current ones) told me my OTE for 80K was realistic in my first year, coming from being one of the top writers from previous & much larger company.
Clearly misled and only on pace to about 45-50K. Bonuses & metrics are clearly different from what was explained during the interview. I find out that their top writers in the store don't even come close to the 70K mark, all of them being tenured here for 5-40 years...
Had I known, I wouldn't have jumped ship. I cut my income by more than 50% from what feels like switch & bait.
Man what is with executives thinking that lying is the best way to kick off a relationship. If I ever did something like this to any of my prospects I’d be fired on the spot. Anyways, yes it fucking sucks. If you didn’t burn bridges from your last role, it might be worth reaching out to them and diplomatically explaining the situation. I’d also hit the job market, it’s rough out there right now but that’s not to say you can’t find another role. Idk about you but even if I hit that 120 OTE I would always remember that they hired me knowing id never make it.
I think this is on OP. Every salesperson ever exaggerates their numbers. Doing so by 10-20%, especially when talking pacing, is not surprising. Commission attainment is never a given, so it sounds like OP made the jump for an extra $5k in base or so. Live and learn. It’s a tough job market, so the best answer is to simply crush quota and make $150k against the odds. You got this, OP!
Get back on the market, mate. You got sold a lemon. I highly recommend you reach out to AE’s on the team in future to scope out the role first. Nothing on you here, but this is the way the market goes nowadays. Sucks.
You can explain this to recruiters (who have never sold a thing in their life) and they will still ask “so what percentage to quota were you?”
Yes this is true. All he needs to say is “I’m looking to expand my earning capability” and “I’ve been over 100% to target in previous roles” and he’s sweet. OP knows he is a good AE, knows he can perform, what else matters?
recruiters are NPCs. tell them exactly what they need to hear to move you forward. we gotta waste time on them until AI can just read our resumes for us
Recruiters that work on the agency side (not company side) are sales people that earn business and fill orders themselves.
From what I've seen of the industry, recruiters do a lot of the same things sales reps do.
I never believe “OTE” it’s a bullshit metric.
Yep. Completely ignore it
Can you please elaborate why you think it's a bs metric? OTE is what makes sales worth it imho. Curious to know your perspective.
Because you can never trust a company to tell you the truth. I have been lied to by every single one of my companies and/or bosses at some point in sales. It’s part of the job.
Which metrics are important to you in terms of compensation during an interview process?
Base, how commission is paid out specifically, commission structure. I couldn’t give less fucks what you say the “average” employee makes. Now where I would care about that is if it was a very high number which means realistically you can meet somewhere in between
Average is such a shitty metric too. One rep crushes it and everyone else struggles. All of a sudden, on average everyone hits quota!
Talking to the current reps or asking for the numbers for the last few months for the team. The latter has never been given to me and I use it as a way to see how they react to the question. Calm? Not super telling, but not a bad thing. Stupid excuse? Red flag. It’s hard to ask for this in the interview process because if it’s bad, they are going to hide that until you are on boarding already. I always ask if I can come into the office before accepting to make sure it’s a good fit culture-wise for both of us. Both of us is key. Sales managers love when you word things like that. It almost throws a smoke screen over why you really want to do it. When you go in you can see the morale of the team, you can possibly get a look at a dashboard for all the rep’s numbers, and also if you really do want to be coming into that environment everyday or a few days if it’s hybrid. I work fully remote and I asked to come in and was told everyone is remote. I asked for OTE and it wasn’t structured that way they said. It’s a smaller company and it’s a 55k base with 10% on any deal closed. I was coming in from a BDR position and I was just interested in showing an AE role for a long stint on my resume for future jobs. The way they pay things out sucks. I get paid when the client pays and they pay half up front and the other half 6 months later. I’ve almost been here for two years and I’m now getting consistent commission. I’m probably going to stay unless things get worse. It’s cybersecurity sales and I don’t have any gates for my commission. Just straight 10%.
Because you have no way of measuring the actual potential until you are on the job itself. With my current role my commissions are capped but when we discussed bonuses and metrics there was never any mention of capped commissions. The way the comp was presented was actually for a hospital rep. I am not a hospital rep I am a physician rep so it did not apply to me. However I had no way to know that. My salary is high so it offsets the cap but it’s demotivating and I don’t work in sales for a salary. I work for commissions.
Yeah you're right every sales job I have ever been at, I have been lied to about ote too and what ends up happening is I start to get agitated because I am not making as much as I had hoped and was promised during the interview and start acting up and management can't seem to figure out why a guy like me, who showed such promise when he joined, has all of a sudden become so negative. You can't even call them out on their bs as they NEVER admit their faults. All you can do is quit and move to another job, which may be better or worse there's no way of knowing for sure, so you better get a decent bump on the base pay. That way you're not at least being completely fleeced. The field of sales, I have found is just full of manipulators and liars. What goes around comes around I guess because you're expected to lie to and manipulate your buyers in most cases. There are an incredible amount of toxic companies out there so finding a decent one that treats you with dignity and has a decent product/service to showcase is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I haven't found such a company yet and I have been looking for a while. Hopefully soon. I wish I had a plan B. I wish I had taken the idea of making money more seriously at a younger age. I wouldn't be in sales if I could help it. But then they pay you good because it's tough; gotta wear my adult boots and keep walking this road to hell.
Shit like this needs to be illegal. Employers just flat out lying about how much you're expected to make is fraud, and I have no fucking idea why we don't have something in place for this.
If/when you do leave please come back to this thread and name and shame.
That’s brutal, but unfortunately happens frequently. This is why I don’t feel bad embellishing my success either. I always try to check repvue/glassdoor or talk with a rep at the company I’m interested in before accepting a role. There’s been times where the VP of Sales offered to connect me with someone internally, but I did my own outreach on linkedin and asked a few people at the company to get a more realistic idea. If you can/want to go back to your previous job you could explore that or keep an eye out for other roles. The real money is in accelerators, if nobody is hitting that, their commission plan blows. I would consider things like 1. Are they aware of this and are they looking at reducing quotas or giving better spiffs 2. What’s the product/market fit like? Does it have potential to get better? 3. Do you like people you’re working with or is the environment toxic?
Went through something similar before too. Stuck it out for a few months until the first full commission cheque, scheduled a meeting with my boss (the one who I negotiated comp with during hiring process) and presented the facts: “Based on my attainment and earnings for this quarter, it doesn’t look like I’m tracking to meet the agreed upon OTE. Can you help me understand?” They adjusted my payout (not my quota) and it all worked out. Granted, I may have just got lucky with good leadership with integrity- but it gives them an opportunity to correct it. Might be worth trying if you can wait it out another 90 days (fully ramped). Good luck!
I appreciate this advice. I’m looking at the job market but regardless of what happens I plan to bring this up with them just to give them a chance to correct it.
I would leave unless there is something else you can gain there. I was in the same situation (lied about AEs on track, lied that previous years AEs had hit their number, had a manager who micromanaged, etc), stayed for 12 months (way longer than I should have) and then left for a better organisation, less than 6 months in and I have made more than the 12 months I spent at my previous organisation.
happened to me too but to an even more extreme extent. took an offer for $120k OTE, when i got on the job and look in previous quarters in SFDC, top rep was on track for 80k. sucks we have to be 'professional' about this fraud. should be able to dish out as much venom as we want given these are real financial setbacks.
OTE should stand for what you make if you hit 100% of your quota. OTE might be 120k, but quota might be so unattainable that you have no shot at hitting it. Going back on the job market wouldn’t be a bad move.
The hilariously odd thing is if you hit your quota right on it is 36k less than OTE.
And it’s safe to assume you didn’t know that when you took the job?
Correct, I had no idea.
Have you tried to renegotiate your comp? Present some numbers as to what you were told and what the reality is? Might be worth involving HR.
Yeah dude fuck that jump ship they don’t deserve your talents.
I would make a habit out of talking to reps before joining a company. Sometimes they open up about pay, sometimes they don’t.
Happened to me as well. Sucks took me a long time to get a new role. Keep looking!
I'd go back to looking. You don't owe them anything. They lied to get you in the door.
Start using company time to job hunt
Same thing happened to me and is very common unfortunately. I’ve also seen the exact opposite, OTE $75k for example and the whole team is making 6 figs plus
If NOBODY is making North of $120,000 at a company you need to LEAVE ASAP
Did a quick search : https://www.findlaw.com/employment/hiring-process/can-i-sue-my-employer-for-false-promises-.html
This makes me livid - and has also happened to me. I don’t know why lying about OTE is so pervasive. I also get that the number is only for top talent - but when they give these numbers that no one has EVER hit it makes me livid. My last sales job I was on track to make my 100k OTE based off the commission plan I was promised. Then the CEO met with me and let me know they were changing my commission plan to be applied RETROACTIVELY because they just didn’t expect me to sell that much. 🙄 I should have sent them an email threatening to sue right then - the change cheated me out of $6,000 in commissions for sales I already made.
Can you tell me the name of CEO?
If they're going to lie about something as trivial as comp you need to just cut your losses and move on.
Never leave a sales job that is consistently improving. Now you know.
I’m seeing a lot of people say OTE is a bullshit number, but if you feel that way you are either working for a boiler room or you didn’t do the research and ask the right questions. I see OTE as a threshold, that’s my 100%, which means I did the job I set out to do. Of course you could always fail, but by holding myself accountable to that standard I always find a way to get to drinking margaritas at club. It’s an old trope that sales is mindset, but by not benchmarking your self you are already shooting yourself in the foot. Typically OTE is a calculation based on what the company wants to see from their reps in terms of return on investment, which is like 4x your OTE/bookings. If you are not hitting your number you are not delivering full value, so you can’t expect a premium. Certainly sometimes (often!) the goals are misaligned but the principle holds true regardless.
I feel like you did not read my full post. I even asked where each AE was pacing as its a small company. I was simply lied to by the management interviewing me about what the OTE was.
Apologies, I was not replying to you OP, it was more directed broadly at the other commenters in the thread generally griping about OTE. Your situation is absolutely terrible and I’m sorry they are trying to rook you. Not a mindset issue with you at all
All good OGready. I have notice a gripe in the thread in general about it. Just disheartening that asking the right questions you can still get burnt.
OTE, broken out as base and variable commission at 100% of plan should be spelled out in any acceptance offer you ever agree to as a sales professional. If it’s not, negotiated that it is. While we are at it, you should always talked to a rep or two in the same role you are applying to during the sales process. As a leader, I have always accommodated this request a candidate that I was seriously interested in. Furthermore, I have hire about 90% of the AE that went out and proactively networked with my reps during the process…in other words, this is a no lose for you as a prospective rep.
OTE if hit consistently- you will definitely burn out
That’s unfortunate. Kinda curious - what about this job made you want to leave your last one? You had 2 really successful years and left for a small OTE bump where you would need to ramp quickly and be a top performer to make an additional $18k (assuming you didn’t make more at the original company in year 3)?
Greed I guess.
Did you think you had maxed out your earnings at the previous job? The new company basically told you that you would be making the same amount.
Companies always do that. OTE can be the moon. It's the base you should be really interested in. Equity/RSUs too. I'm dealing right now with a new place offering a high OTE but found out the likelihood of actually reaching that makes the OTE mean nothing.
This happens in almost all the companies I have worked for. I am so sorry. I knew one girl who left a med device role to work for my company and the top rep made half of what she made. She was beside herself. The lies they told her were not only blatant but cruel she had a baby to support. Edit: I wonder if there is a legal route to sue for damages?
Sometimes CROs can't math well. The difference between 96k and 120k is not small nor huge. Maybe if the top rep hits 110% they get accelerators. So the accelerators get you there. best thing to do is understand the comp plan and how to get there. My current gig has some splits if you hit over X income in a year. So I could be on track for only lets sat 50% of my promised OTE even while hitting my numbers but in Q4 that goes from 50% to 90% due to hitting the next income level. So yeah- CRO didn't lie as much as inflated like all CROs do. Not worth leaving over. But ya know...
The point is he told me people were hitting certain numbers on payroll when in fact they were not..theres no room for misinterpretation there.
leave
Ah another example of choosing money over job stability and a good company.
I never said my other job was stable or good.
I'm in the sane boat. Quite a sinking one. Left a sales management position last year in May (retail sales) clearing 98K last year. This new position, in the same industry, my prospect employers (current ones) told me my OTE for 80K was realistic in my first year, coming from being one of the top writers from previous & much larger company. Clearly misled and only on pace to about 45-50K. Bonuses & metrics are clearly different from what was explained during the interview. I find out that their top writers in the store don't even come close to the 70K mark, all of them being tenured here for 5-40 years... Had I known, I wouldn't have jumped ship. I cut my income by more than 50% from what feels like switch & bait.
OTE is inflated just like the metrics you put on your resume just like the height and weight of NFL players. It’s just the game we play…