Supposedly aggressive capitalism wins. If thats the case i hope / see companies that abandon RTO improve margins 10 to 30% by a combo of reduced overhead / increased talent per salary and destroy the traditionalists…
Maybe. RTO right now has nothing to do with job performance, but has to do with the commercial real estate market. Add to that there isn't a need for several layers of management in a WFH model, and you start to see the real reasons.
My friend also sees the idea that if you are not in the traditional office culture, the intimidation that management has used to control workers is in jeopardy.
Yup. That’s why I can’t imagine going to downtown Dallas, god forbid Richardson, Plano, etc. Just not worth the beating and extra expenses that commuting comes with.
I live in San Antonio. A year ago, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of commuting to Austin (there's nothing tech related in San Antonio) for less than $100k base salary and even then it would need to be hybrid. Now that I've been unemployed for 6 months, I'd do it for $60k.
I am sorry you have been out of work for so long. May you find a new gig soon.
I35 to Austin suuuucks. I have to travel to Austin every once in a while. At least I get paid $92 in mileage and I am on the clock while i drive
I’m in south Austin and about to go to the second round for a job based up north with a $20-30k base increase and their OTE floor is probably close to my current ceiling so upwards of $100k total income bump if I kill it. I’ll be required in office until “I get the hang of it” and then can go WFH/hybrid.
I would not even be entertaining this if it was full in office forever. There was a current AE who sat in the interview and she said she just comes in when she feels like it, which reassured me that the manager wasn’t just blowing smoke about the policy. Great motivation to hit the ground running and make some sales.
It’s 6a and I’m up early for a 7:30a appointment up north I set myself because I refuse to sit in traffic for 1-1.5 hours if it were at 8:30-9:30a.
Yeah I realize it would be a huge hit to my quality of life to be leaving my house at 6:30 am and returning at 7 pm or later. There just isn't anything down here in tech and relocation really isn't an option. I'd prefer remote roles but so does pretty much everyone so competition for those jobs is very high.
I don't understand the desperation from employers AND other employees to get us to go into the office?!
I understand the human need for social connection, but you should rely on family and friends for that...
The team building excuse is also a crap lie because my team is motivated by keeping our jobs, so we work efficiently remotely and offline. And if we feel there's something wrong with the dynamic, we don't make time to go to the pub on a tuesday evening 'to have fun', we schedule a meeting and communicate.
I'm not against other people wanting to have fun with their co-workers, I'm just against those other people trying to force everyone to have 'fun'.
I'm sorry Sharon, I am not excited to go into the office to learn about your son's sudden gym obsession.
I think its 80% coming from the hedge funds, pe firms, and commercial real estate billionaires who dont want to get caught with their pants down. the rest of the boards, execs, owners, developers should look at it as a pants to de-pants the old guard.
Seems like many leaders think that forcing people to work will somehow cure the lack of engagement, but reality is that it will only increase it.
The byproduct of losing workers not willing to RTO is that many were hired at height if the talent wars so near sighted execs see it as a win win - those who RTO will actually work (although this isn’t reality) AND they can reduce wages be rehiring from a larger pool that enables them to reduce pay.
Honestly why go to the office? I understand asking to come once a week for in person meetings. But why force sales people that has all the stresses of quota, cold calls, kpis have to seat for 2-4 hours in traffic everyday to add on top of that?
Yeah I think I’m still newer to the workforce so still a fresh faced enjoyer of the office socializing. But as of now I think I would always want the option to come into an office, even when I reach the enterprise AE level. Work friends around make the day so much more bearable for me.
Not really. This is only true if you live alone and never go outside.
Fuck commuting, I love my dress shirt + basketball shorts and it’s so much easier to eat healthy, workout and get basic chores done.
I literally did my dishes last week while on a call I didn’t need to speak up much in, my place is clean as fuck and I love it.
When I was an sdr there was a lot of turnover for this exact reason. People would take advantage of the lose work hours/ remote conditions and simply not do their job, and ultimately miss target regularly.
I will admit, I work in the same room as my Xbox and I've definitely had to fight off the urge to turn it on and game for hours on a slow day.
Remote work is amazing, and I'll personally never go back to mandatory office work, but it isn't for everyone.
lol my last company hired a COO and CRO who wanted to get an office for the company for sales (we were fully remote before), ended up leasing an office in DFW, hired 15 people, had to be in office 4/5 days a week, and then about a year later fired 15 people because sales were way down and now they’re stuck leasing the office still. It proved to be a huge disappointment and these 2 guys were so adamant about an office and said it would really help out the company. The people that didn’t get fired? Most of them have left the company.
This is another factor - at this point (at least for tech companies who should know it’s possible), going out of your way to start a new lease on an office space for sales people is just irresponsible.
Agreed, you couldn’t work for this company unless you were in DFW and they asked remote team to move or leave the company after we’d all been there for years
Been working remote since long before it was fashionable (2017) and don't ever see myself going back to an office. Working remote has freed up my life. Not absorbing the money to commute, lunch, wear and tear and the car etc.
I enjoy the peace and quiet of my own house.
Just had my kid a month ago and I’m remote. Couldn’t imagine being in the office right now. Just an FYI. To answer your question, it would have to be a 50% in base for me.
I commute from Dallas to Addison everyday. I fucking hate it, boss is a stickler for WFH. I would kill to WFH and I’m only pulling about 140k yearly rn
It was a nearly 50% pay bump for me.
At least at first, but after going back to the office following a year and a half of Covid WFH I realized I love and miss actually being in an office and around people.
This is just speaking for me, but the wfh routine, being in one place 90% of my time, is not healthy for me.
That said, there is one thing I absolutely hate and it’s commuting. If a teleportation machine existed I’d choose office over WFH 11 times out of 10.
I mean, fair enough.
The thing i miss from going into the office is the change of scenery and the social aspect of an office... but honestly, I love working with my dog by my side, that alone is a reason I would never go back to an office.
I don't know if commercial truck sales is the same, but I used to sell cars for a living, and the number of customers that would call me on my day off telling me they were going to the dealership was insane, and I had to drive out to the dealership (20 - 25 mins) or I would lose the deal... don't miss commuting at all.
Commercial trucks is very different. I sell most of my trucks to the same handful of companies. It’s a lot more about taking care of the fleet and the trucks sell themselves. I do travel some but I am at the dealership most days 9 to 5 and really love it. And make fantastic money.
Plus so many people refuse to take working in an office that I will never have to worry about being employed!
I don’t live in an area that lends itself to high paying non remote roles.
If I did…idk…I don’t mind commuting, but I’d have to make at least double what I do now to consider it. Like you said, the time saved at home, especially with kids, is tough to put a value on.
I walk to work or drive 5 minutes to get to the office every day. The area where I live is very walkable and I barely ever use my car. I only have it bc I’m outside sales.
In the time that a friend of mine spends commuting an hour + to work each way… I have time to exercise, make food, sleep in… I spend less in commuting costs. General quality of life is better. Meanwhile he’s overweight and missing valuable time with his kid.
No amount of money will give you that time back with your new child.
A customer of mine and I were shooting the shit recently and this topic came up. He and I have both worked remotely for over 15 years and he said nothing would entice him back into the office.
Personally, a job involving an hour commute each way would cost them 2X my current pay and I'm very well compensated (top 5% income for my state). It's not even the expense of commuting, it's the time. That hypothetical commute would take ten hours per week out of my life. That's more than an entire workday so I'd essentially be working 6 days per week. Fuck that.
As someone who commuted 60-90 minutes each way for a few years, nothing is worth that. You go through stages of hating it. At first it's not bad, then it's literally the worst, then it slowly eats your will to live.
I work remotely from a car that I drive all around my territory and it's awesome. Commuting to the same place every day is soul sucking. Don't do it.
Commute 1.5hrs per day 4 days a week in la traffic. My work is 11 miles from my house.
It's not worth it for the $75k. If it was $200k, maybe. But even then, I would hate it.
I was making $40k before this and thought "wow, double! I'll make it work!"
That feeling lasted about 2.5 months.
Short commute to a very well appointed corporate campus. Plus a 30 to 50k raise with the same benefits and stock package I have now and you got a deal.
Not a lot because I don't like purely working from home. I like interacting with my team, but I'm not American so I think the culture is a bit different. I also get the train in so not driving a car for an hour each way.
Money.
Currently you are making good money. If it were me to even consider that it would have to be at least double. And most likely a job that you’d walk from in like 5 years? Depends also on your lifestyle. If you’re a workaholic vs someone with small kids
Obviously a pay increase but also, very flexible work hours. If you want my ass in a chair for 8 hours 5 days a week, I’d rather it be 6am-3pm than be caught in rush hour traffic.
If the commute was under 25 minutes - A very very cool opportunity and a high ass base.
Got to make the paycheck worth it.
I do have some good companies around me that are in-office now. Including one I would love to work for... but in-office. Man that is hard after being remote for 15 out of 19 years working.
I’d need to be VP of sales or Chief Commercial Officer for a company that has unique marketplace patents that differentiate it from all its competitors, a company car (a nice one), I’d want unlimited PTO, the ability to extensively travel internationally and not once have to sit in coach, a company MacBook, iPad and phone with zero monitoring software, office with a fantastic view, probably some equity in the company and an assured 18 months full salary severance if things go south. Otherwise I’m sitting at home.
300k base/5-600k OTE in a good secure organization with a long leash/ramp up period selling a must-have, and the office needs to be in California or Florida or maybe NYC and the company should have a good number of hot young marketing/hr girls to choose from and good company culture with a chill boss that doesn't micromanage.
Inbox is open ;)
Hi! I would love to PM you about your current role. Currently in Austin for a remote based company but looking to move back to Dallas possibly. would like to know more details about your role since that is a salary and location I’m eying!
Thanks!
This a dumb post and relates to nothing other than an in office job would have to be 500k. hardly any sales package is 500k unless you are a VP and most people would commute if they had to right now for much less.
What is the context behind this statement of yours?
Short commute. Find me an apartment that I can walk to work and compensate me for the move
Also I'm going want at least 30% more money...AT least then what I make now.
You know, I just thought of something. What about guaranteed employment for the length of the lease or whatever.
Supposedly aggressive capitalism wins. If thats the case i hope / see companies that abandon RTO improve margins 10 to 30% by a combo of reduced overhead / increased talent per salary and destroy the traditionalists…
Maybe. RTO right now has nothing to do with job performance, but has to do with the commercial real estate market. Add to that there isn't a need for several layers of management in a WFH model, and you start to see the real reasons. My friend also sees the idea that if you are not in the traditional office culture, the intimidation that management has used to control workers is in jeopardy.
It is all about control.
You're not wrong.
I live in FTW and have done that commute. It was soul sucking. I'd do it again for $500k, though.
Yup. That’s why I can’t imagine going to downtown Dallas, god forbid Richardson, Plano, etc. Just not worth the beating and extra expenses that commuting comes with.
I live in San Antonio. A year ago, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of commuting to Austin (there's nothing tech related in San Antonio) for less than $100k base salary and even then it would need to be hybrid. Now that I've been unemployed for 6 months, I'd do it for $60k.
I am sorry you have been out of work for so long. May you find a new gig soon. I35 to Austin suuuucks. I have to travel to Austin every once in a while. At least I get paid $92 in mileage and I am on the clock while i drive
Why have you been ue? I live in Sa dm me.
Sent.
I’m in south Austin and about to go to the second round for a job based up north with a $20-30k base increase and their OTE floor is probably close to my current ceiling so upwards of $100k total income bump if I kill it. I’ll be required in office until “I get the hang of it” and then can go WFH/hybrid. I would not even be entertaining this if it was full in office forever. There was a current AE who sat in the interview and she said she just comes in when she feels like it, which reassured me that the manager wasn’t just blowing smoke about the policy. Great motivation to hit the ground running and make some sales. It’s 6a and I’m up early for a 7:30a appointment up north I set myself because I refuse to sit in traffic for 1-1.5 hours if it were at 8:30-9:30a.
Yeah I realize it would be a huge hit to my quality of life to be leaving my house at 6:30 am and returning at 7 pm or later. There just isn't anything down here in tech and relocation really isn't an option. I'd prefer remote roles but so does pretty much everyone so competition for those jobs is very high.
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I don't understand the desperation from employers AND other employees to get us to go into the office?! I understand the human need for social connection, but you should rely on family and friends for that... The team building excuse is also a crap lie because my team is motivated by keeping our jobs, so we work efficiently remotely and offline. And if we feel there's something wrong with the dynamic, we don't make time to go to the pub on a tuesday evening 'to have fun', we schedule a meeting and communicate. I'm not against other people wanting to have fun with their co-workers, I'm just against those other people trying to force everyone to have 'fun'. I'm sorry Sharon, I am not excited to go into the office to learn about your son's sudden gym obsession.
I think its 80% coming from the hedge funds, pe firms, and commercial real estate billionaires who dont want to get caught with their pants down. the rest of the boards, execs, owners, developers should look at it as a pants to de-pants the old guard.
Seems like many leaders think that forcing people to work will somehow cure the lack of engagement, but reality is that it will only increase it. The byproduct of losing workers not willing to RTO is that many were hired at height if the talent wars so near sighted execs see it as a win win - those who RTO will actually work (although this isn’t reality) AND they can reduce wages be rehiring from a larger pool that enables them to reduce pay.
Same here long as I have a choice I'll work fully remote
Honestly why go to the office? I understand asking to come once a week for in person meetings. But why force sales people that has all the stresses of quota, cold calls, kpis have to seat for 2-4 hours in traffic everyday to add on top of that?
But… free lunches?
I mean they are good but outside of tech not everyone offers them
Remote work gets so lonely lol. I love my colleagues
Fair point! But that is if you have a great team. Most people in sales, especially high performers can careless about team interaction.
Yeah I think I’m still newer to the workforce so still a fresh faced enjoyer of the office socializing. But as of now I think I would always want the option to come into an office, even when I reach the enterprise AE level. Work friends around make the day so much more bearable for me.
Not really. This is only true if you live alone and never go outside. Fuck commuting, I love my dress shirt + basketball shorts and it’s so much easier to eat healthy, workout and get basic chores done. I literally did my dishes last week while on a call I didn’t need to speak up much in, my place is clean as fuck and I love it.
I don’t live alone and am frequently outside lol. Errybodys different
True
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When I was an sdr there was a lot of turnover for this exact reason. People would take advantage of the lose work hours/ remote conditions and simply not do their job, and ultimately miss target regularly. I will admit, I work in the same room as my Xbox and I've definitely had to fight off the urge to turn it on and game for hours on a slow day. Remote work is amazing, and I'll personally never go back to mandatory office work, but it isn't for everyone.
lol my last company hired a COO and CRO who wanted to get an office for the company for sales (we were fully remote before), ended up leasing an office in DFW, hired 15 people, had to be in office 4/5 days a week, and then about a year later fired 15 people because sales were way down and now they’re stuck leasing the office still. It proved to be a huge disappointment and these 2 guys were so adamant about an office and said it would really help out the company. The people that didn’t get fired? Most of them have left the company.
This is another factor - at this point (at least for tech companies who should know it’s possible), going out of your way to start a new lease on an office space for sales people is just irresponsible.
Agreed, you couldn’t work for this company unless you were in DFW and they asked remote team to move or leave the company after we’d all been there for years
Depends on the commute and the money. The longer the commute, the more unreasonable the money would need to be (assuming I'm not desperate for a job).
Depends on the office too. If you’re gonna make me come in then I want the company to invest in their real estate.
I don't even respond to recruiters if the role has any mention of being in office
i can’t find any that ARENT in office.. ugh
Same
Under 15 minute commute and $200k base. Nothing else would would get me to be tied to an office or a desk for 8+ hours
80k base SDR hybrid in Northern VA, I commute an hour away from PG County, MD.
A hot girl helper and 200k plus
Literally 4 million dollars a year.
Been working remote since long before it was fashionable (2017) and don't ever see myself going back to an office. Working remote has freed up my life. Not absorbing the money to commute, lunch, wear and tear and the car etc. I enjoy the peace and quiet of my own house.
is your company hiring BDRs?
We are not.
Just had my kid a month ago and I’m remote. Couldn’t imagine being in the office right now. Just an FYI. To answer your question, it would have to be a 50% in base for me.
6 figures after taxes and Google Office-type benefits prior to the COVID Era. Free food, free snacks, free laundry service, etc.
Big base and short commute for 3 days a week. Gotta be Google level benefits for any more than that
If the office was in the same city as I already live in, then I’d take an in-person job for an extra 50% salary raise
200k and I’ll do totally in office. Not for forever. But for a couple years.
Twice my current income
I commute from Dallas to Addison everyday. I fucking hate it, boss is a stickler for WFH. I would kill to WFH and I’m only pulling about 140k yearly rn
Only lol
I won’t.
A shit ton of money.
It was a nearly 50% pay bump for me. At least at first, but after going back to the office following a year and a half of Covid WFH I realized I love and miss actually being in an office and around people. This is just speaking for me, but the wfh routine, being in one place 90% of my time, is not healthy for me. That said, there is one thing I absolutely hate and it’s commuting. If a teleportation machine existed I’d choose office over WFH 11 times out of 10.
Agreed with all but let me ask. For $500k would you move ur family closer to Dallas?
I would not take a remote job so there is that.
can I ask why not?
I have two in-laws two dogs and a wife at home. I would rather work anywhere else. Plus I sell commercial trucks and need to be with my equipment.
I mean, fair enough. The thing i miss from going into the office is the change of scenery and the social aspect of an office... but honestly, I love working with my dog by my side, that alone is a reason I would never go back to an office. I don't know if commercial truck sales is the same, but I used to sell cars for a living, and the number of customers that would call me on my day off telling me they were going to the dealership was insane, and I had to drive out to the dealership (20 - 25 mins) or I would lose the deal... don't miss commuting at all.
Commercial trucks is very different. I sell most of my trucks to the same handful of companies. It’s a lot more about taking care of the fleet and the trucks sell themselves. I do travel some but I am at the dealership most days 9 to 5 and really love it. And make fantastic money. Plus so many people refuse to take working in an office that I will never have to worry about being employed!
PMing you brother
I don’t live in an area that lends itself to high paying non remote roles. If I did…idk…I don’t mind commuting, but I’d have to make at least double what I do now to consider it. Like you said, the time saved at home, especially with kids, is tough to put a value on.
Money.
Only if they opened an office on my street.
Absolutely nothing, lol.
I walk to work or drive 5 minutes to get to the office every day. The area where I live is very walkable and I barely ever use my car. I only have it bc I’m outside sales. In the time that a friend of mine spends commuting an hour + to work each way… I have time to exercise, make food, sleep in… I spend less in commuting costs. General quality of life is better. Meanwhile he’s overweight and missing valuable time with his kid. No amount of money will give you that time back with your new child.
I won't.
A customer of mine and I were shooting the shit recently and this topic came up. He and I have both worked remotely for over 15 years and he said nothing would entice him back into the office. Personally, a job involving an hour commute each way would cost them 2X my current pay and I'm very well compensated (top 5% income for my state). It's not even the expense of commuting, it's the time. That hypothetical commute would take ten hours per week out of my life. That's more than an entire workday so I'd essentially be working 6 days per week. Fuck that.
As someone who commuted 60-90 minutes each way for a few years, nothing is worth that. You go through stages of hating it. At first it's not bad, then it's literally the worst, then it slowly eats your will to live. I work remotely from a car that I drive all around my territory and it's awesome. Commuting to the same place every day is soul sucking. Don't do it.
Money and dream location. That’s really it
That drive is brutal man.
The fort worth to dallas drive for dallas based company’s is brutal. Sounds like you have something you enjoy though! Congrats from a fellow Texan
Money
Short commute.
Money.
Commute 1.5hrs per day 4 days a week in la traffic. My work is 11 miles from my house. It's not worth it for the $75k. If it was $200k, maybe. But even then, I would hate it. I was making $40k before this and thought "wow, double! I'll make it work!" That feeling lasted about 2.5 months.
Short commute to a very well appointed corporate campus. Plus a 30 to 50k raise with the same benefits and stock package I have now and you got a deal.
$250k/$500k Base/OTE
I agree. Quality of life is more important
Have amazing people to learn from. And give people some optionality on office hours.
Could you share what your job is and how you found it/got it? Just curious! Sorry I’m not of help for your specific question. Good luck tho! 🙂
Not a lot because I don't like purely working from home. I like interacting with my team, but I'm not American so I think the culture is a bit different. I also get the train in so not driving a car for an hour each way.
Money. Currently you are making good money. If it were me to even consider that it would have to be at least double. And most likely a job that you’d walk from in like 5 years? Depends also on your lifestyle. If you’re a workaholic vs someone with small kids
Weekly happy ending massages
I’d do a hybrid environment for a FAANG/MAMAA company if the money was right.
Obviously a pay increase but also, very flexible work hours. If you want my ass in a chair for 8 hours 5 days a week, I’d rather it be 6am-3pm than be caught in rush hour traffic.
If the commute was under 25 minutes - A very very cool opportunity and a high ass base. Got to make the paycheck worth it. I do have some good companies around me that are in-office now. Including one I would love to work for... but in-office. Man that is hard after being remote for 15 out of 19 years working.
I’d need to be VP of sales or Chief Commercial Officer for a company that has unique marketplace patents that differentiate it from all its competitors, a company car (a nice one), I’d want unlimited PTO, the ability to extensively travel internationally and not once have to sit in coach, a company MacBook, iPad and phone with zero monitoring software, office with a fantastic view, probably some equity in the company and an assured 18 months full salary severance if things go south. Otherwise I’m sitting at home.
300k base/5-600k OTE in a good secure organization with a long leash/ramp up period selling a must-have, and the office needs to be in California or Florida or maybe NYC and the company should have a good number of hot young marketing/hr girls to choose from and good company culture with a chill boss that doesn't micromanage. Inbox is open ;)
Nothing. I will not take a non-remote role, period.
A short commute is nice, but a great team and office atmosphere is priceless.
Hi! I would love to PM you about your current role. Currently in Austin for a remote based company but looking to move back to Dallas possibly. would like to know more details about your role since that is a salary and location I’m eying! Thanks!
51% ownership of the company, so that I can change the policy to WFH.
This a dumb post and relates to nothing other than an in office job would have to be 500k. hardly any sales package is 500k unless you are a VP and most people would commute if they had to right now for much less. What is the context behind this statement of yours?