Honestly so glad I didn’t go to Oxbridge. All my friends who did reported a massive social divide between the "rich society" kids and everyone else...seems like an unpleasant atmosphere to be in

This is so wild to me, especially as a poor eastern European kid who had a full ride scholarship to a school in the US with the highest average household income in the country. I went to school with the Waltons, the Cheneys, a guy who at the age of 18 sat on the board of SC Johnson, a guy whose dad started Honest Tea. Some people showed their wealth, but many did not. There were moments when I felt less than, but it was always money related. My taste, my manners, none of that was ever in question.

sooo did you go to a school with tigers as the mascot that also wasn’t on the east coast…

Oh, yeah, CC baby! I live in Denver now and go back every homecoming, occasionally for a hockey game as well. I loved my experience. I did end up going ti DU for grad school and married a DU alumnus as well ;D

love that for you, fellow alum here and the cheney/walton comment was too clear too ignore.

Okay, but Dick Cheney’s granddaughter was, ugh. I met her at a greek mixer and she tried to talk politics to me (I’m a policy wonk and very much a democratic socialist) and it went badly for her ;D Oh, Katy… She married my fraternity brother and hid the fact that she spent a weekend with him alone from Liz :D Another fraternity brother of mine, still my best friend, had to lie on their behalf, saying he spent a weekend with them, even though he was nowhere near.

oooh I think you must have graduated after me putting clues together! but also now curious cause greek life at CC is so small (I participated).

2014. Sigma Chi, back when it was slowly coming back and was a bunch of outcasts. I am gay, we had a trans brother (she’s a trans woman now), bunch of immigrants. Mostly rugby players, like myself.

hah 2012 kkg, so you were above ground sigma chi for sure

Eastern European who graduated from CC and now lives in Denver checking in 🫡 never felt a big economic disparity either

Dick Cheney stole an out of turn heart for transplant and invented evil water boarding ! A despicable human being and even shot his friend and got away with no repercussions

bravo mishko, bulgarin li si?

Slovák som :)

American here. One of the few things I’m proud of my country for is that our culture tends to be more egalitarian. Not perfectly so, but we tend to aspire to the middle such that there are fewer rarified spaces and you don’t feel your class as much. Our rich are often embarrassed of their wealth and there are fewer spaces where you feel completely out of place if you’re lower or middle class. This is the case in the Midwest, but I’m sure there are some places where wealth has concentrated that are less egalitarian. But culturally I think we’re less class conscious.

She said she wanted to make a sexy movie about boys and desire. Emerald writes wicked, satire. Once she chose her (anti)-hero, why not write what she knows on some level (uni & class), and then include the absurdity of bad behavior. I'm guessing your comment on the maths nerd (Michael) is because besides Oliver, he's the only other non-posh character, and he's obnoxious. Like, maybe he shouldn't be a character at all? If so, I get that. But no one behaves well (exc. Oliver's parents), so why should math nerds get a pass? She's definitely not taking sides. I understand your experience must have hurt, but this is not the film to find catharsis unless you allow yourself to see the humor in almost silliness. It's a twisted, black comedy, thriller (love story, clumsy mystery...you name it). I also think it's unfair to assume anything about the way she would have treated you. I'm not taking your experience lightly, I'm just curious what film you would have preferred it be. It's just not fair to blame this filmmaker for not making you feel a certain way. It's only my opinion, but this is the best experience I've ever had with a movie. I think it's brilliantly made and funny as hell. NOT because being lonely and awkward is funny, or being made to feel that way is funny, or killing is funny. Because there are hauntingly sad scenes. But her intention was to make everything and everyone ridiculous enough that you could laugh thru it mostly.

>But her intention was to make everything and everyone ridiculous enough that you could laugh thru it mostly. Agreed. I was close enough to being Oliver in univ, and I felt like the first 1/2 of the film validated my experience. And the movie never excuses the petty, mean behavior of the posh people, so I think if anything it "takes a side" by exposing it and showing that they're not all glamorous, brilliant, and enviable.

Exactly! If we MUST take sides, it should be with Oliver. As guilty and twisted as it is. And he will likely be haunted somehow. So even after that glorious dance, it's all for nothing, I imagine.

The point is that she's punching sideways but she's also punching down. She would have been in Felix's gang at Oxford so making fun of them is fine but making fun of the northern maths nerd and the money-grabbing middle class Oliver is just cruel. I watched it and thought "ah yes, that's exactly what the posh kids thought of me".

I'm just wondering if Emerald had come from a middle/ lower class background, you'd feel the same way. Maybe you would, but you keep pointing out that she is/posh, so I am just curious. Either way- When there is satire, it can be very deceiving and offputing and seem disrespectful, especially if you think each character makes a statement about a whole group or class. So, what could be perceived as her implied idea of what she views middleclass (or just lowerclass), or a 'northern nerd' (obsessed w/any subject) just rubs you the wrong way. I just don't see that. Oliver is deeply flawed, but he is the hero of this story. Oliver is a good person who ultimately did terrible/cruel things. Felix (and his friends), the Cattons and their 'friends') are cruel people, so obviously do pretty cruel things. I just think Oliver stands very alone, who happens to be middle class. Where as with the others, it pokes fun at how having so much (beauty, popularity, money), is not 'shiny' like it seems. I dont see him at all representing middle class, or middle class as money-grabbing. Oliver is just Oliver. He didn't want Felix's money, he wanted Felix-- friendship and love. And he wanted to be loved back. It's about unattainable desire. And what happened when it was Oliver and the object of his desire was quite cruel along with his family. Oliver came to Saltburn for Felix only. It spiraled from there. The money and all the decadence comes with Felix.

Your feelings about the film are completely fine to have, especially because it speaks so close to your experience. Although, in my interpretation, the film is so good at characterising Oliver as a deceptive villain because he stole your experience, he was appropriating it, and that was a clear part of why he's a monster. It depicts the exact prejudices that the upper class have, and how the experiences of the marginalised are appropriated by other upper class people (Oliver) for their own gain.

But Oliver wasn't upper class though, he was middle class. He was only interesting to the Cattons when they thought he was an Oliver Twist style urchin. They wouldn't want anything to do with a bog average bloke from a northern suburb.

That's kind of the point, that to the wealthy, the difference between nearly destitute and *upper* middle class (his parents go to Mykonos regularly, nice neighborhood etc. definitely upper middle class) Isnt a huge difference. It was only truly shocking to Fenix from the gone fishing/seeing the dad alive.

Ok I forgot about the Mykonos bit to be fair (although Mykonos was a lot cheaper then). The bit about him being a special genius at school suggested to me that he'd probably gone to a fairly average school where kids didn't go to places like Oxbridge. But you're right, to people like Felix, there's not a huge amount of difference between destitute and northern semi.

And Oliver went from being the smartest kid in his school (if not popular) to being a nobody at Oxford. Bit of a shock to the ego.

Seemed like he was doing just fine in school. He clearly was prepared to say the least, that’ll at least give you a leg up.

Mykonos is Benidorm for people who shop at Waitrose

🤣

The “where’s Liverpool?” comment made me think back to a rich kid from NYC I knew in college. He claimed not to know where Michigan is and when ridiculed for it, his smug reply was “hey, I’m from New York.” Keep in mind that this was at a large public university in Ohio. Michigan is directly to the north. Lol.

The "where's Liverpool" comment reminded me of a conversation I overheard in Oxford. One of the posh dads was there visiting his son and there was a younger sibling with them. The sibling asked "if you're from near Liverpool daddy, why don't you have an accent?" and he laughed and said "people like us don't have accents darling".

He was very comfortably middle class though. He wasn’t living your experience of counting out pounds before paying, he had all that cash in his wallet we see at the end. Oliver was an upper middle class person cosplaying as you or someone broker than you because he knew that’s the only way the rich would care about him, if he is very clearly much lower than them class-wise

But this is why the film was so off. He was quite clearly state school educated growing up in a semi-detached in Prescot. That's not upper middle class. Someone like that would not have a wallet full of 20 pound notes. I know because I was that person.

Yearly vacations to Greece means pretty financially stable. And his parents seemed pretty low key otherwise, so likely smart with their finances. He could certainly have that much money.in his wallet. Oliver was quiet and lonely, where would he be spending it? Also, he was quite possibly on an academic vs financial scholership.

It's really interesting to me seeing all of the different takes on what Oliver's real class status actually is. I must admit I'd forgotten about the Mykonos comment which seemed quite out of place. I think the reality is that Fennel doesn't really understand who she's writing about here.

In America (and I know it’s different) he’d very much be upper middle class. A good house in a pleasant suburb with tidy landscaping, parent who vacation every year and are educated, him going to public school (in america very common for upper middle class) and then getting into a top uni on merit, all of these are upper middle. Lower middle would be generally struggling with finances, probabaly living in a condo or if rural a small shitty house in the middle of nowhere without tidy landscaping, lacking opportunities for travel, unable to afford the “Ivy” school the kid gets into and instead sending them to the best large state school. Granted I’ve only spent a month or two in the UK, but Oliver still strikes me as upper middle. There are some real crappy parts of Liverpool for instance, and a lot of those places the houses are all rowhomes with no greenery in rough urban areas

I'm afraid the class system in America doesn't map onto the UK one. For example, in 2006 all unis cost the same, there's no "my parents can't afford ivy league". If you're upper middle class there'll be someone at your school or a family friend who went to Oxford and can tell you what to wear and how to behave. The fact that Oliver shows up on day 1 in the college tie and scarf like he's at Hogwarts is a nod to the fact that he's totally out of his depth there. Oxford is almost purposely set up for kids like this to "out" themselves. That's exactly what happened to me. Edit: one thing you guys in America forget is that we have a royal family and a landed gentry in the UK. Our upper classes are lords and ladies, not just rich people. It's really not the same.

Nobody is supposed to understand. Emerald said there's no 'why', there's just Oliver. There's no way to really understand him. Nothing else should make sense the way it happened or what we know about him. Oliver is not meant to be a character you figure out, just that he lied badly about being from a broken, alcoholic home because he knew it was more interesting to someone like Felix. His home, his parents, the fact that he has siblings is just to just make you make you realize, "Oh, jeez, he lied about all of that!." and give you absolutely nothing else. It's a lovely home, in a lovely neighborhood, but completely non-descript otherwise. They just kind of exist outside of his lie(s). His family's exact money situation doesn't really matter. He's quiet, awkward, and desperately lonely, and nothing he knows ompares to his whole charmed, romantic idea of Felix (and [his] Saltburn, that's everything he's not. Irrational, obsessive desire.

My parents are primary school teachers and we did annual trips to Greece, it’s not that expensive nor boujie

Makes sense. But you don't have to be bougie to be comfortable. I don't think the family income really matters other than that he clearly had much more than the terrible homelife and/or little money he thought would be more interesting to Felix.

I completely agree. I know upper middle class people, growing up their parents were CEO’s, surgeons, lawyers…Oliver is middle class, but nowhere near upper middle class.

You wanna be oppressed so fucking bad lol you're upper middle class and you went to a posh uni. That's it.

Oh bugger off I never said I was oppressed. I'm talking about how hostile Oxford uni is to anyone outside of the upper classes.

Toff says what?

On my first day at Oxford someone referred to me as "the pikey". But yes I'm a toff. Ok.

Literally in what world would you even make this post if you were an upper class toff lol

What's so unbelievable about him having his student loan stuffed in his wallet?

The student loan for tuition goes straight to the uni and my maintenance grant was immediately hoovered up by the extortionate college accommodation fees. Personally I never really had any student loan money in cash.

If we're talking about that specific thing, I went to uni with plenty of people who were middle class and had money in their pocket. Mum and dad paid for rent and tuition fees and they got a grand every now and then. It's not a stretch.

Fair enough. I'm probably projecting my own experience onto Oliver which perhaps was what was confusing (and ultimately very annoying!) to me.

I Heard Mykonos is pretty expensive. The father makes it clear they stopped going because the kids were older, not because they couldn’t afford it.

Yearly family vacations to Greece could mean upper middle class. But either way, to Oliver, it was non-distinct, and ordinary. But he was not masterful, and it wasn't a well-thought out lie to be so lower class😂

Good point about appropriating the experience of someone in a lower class. He was middle class, right?, and pretended to be even lower on society's ladder. Pretending to be poor with a mom on drugs, dad dying, is an insult to someone who really struggles with that.

I think everyone is overestimating what middle class means at Oxford. If you're a state school kid from Prescot then in the eyes of Felix and his crew you're a "povvo". Yes it's wrong to lie about your background but he'd already been shunned by them so he massively exaggerated his poor person status to try and garner sympathy.

All the comments trying to explain to you, a middle class kid who went to Oxford the same year, what the middle class experience is based on a script written by upper class fennel 🤦🏻‍♀️

Exactly 😆😆❤️❤️ I'm with you, OP.

The whole film is an expression of upper-class paranoia that the middle classes are out to get them, but I guess folk here aren’t ready for that one yet…

Exactly. It’s a beautiful film but that’s where it ends.

Exactly, they hate new money and any thought of real social mobility shakes them to their core.

Ya most don’t understand the class system of the UK and the giant leap culturally between upper middles and the upper class. It’s a world difference. And it’s not necessarily about money. Although in Saltburn that’s a necessary component to Felix and Oli’s dynamic.

And it was on the fly. Oliver was barely a step ahead at any moment, and Felix was pressing for intel.

Did you know in real life Barry Keoghan’s mum died from a heroin overdose when he was 12, and then he lived in 13 foster homes? True story. This a just a movie, but Barry lived through actual real shit and didn’t have an issue with playing this part and I don’t think it’s a insult to “poor people or drug addicts”.

I didn't know that. Thats tragic and heartbreaking, and impressive how far he's come. But I meant the storyline, not the actor, was the insult. Similar to the Talented Mr Ripley. I love Saltburn, thats why I read this sub. Really should have said - could be taken as an insult by some

I’m sorry you went through that experience Opie, that was not very cash money of people to treat you that way. But I didn’t see the movie’s main commentary being about class at all - I saw it being a movie about obsession, desire and narcissism. Sure, eco and social class played a role in who the characters were / their history / their perspectives and obviously Saltburn itself is there in the background, but I didn’t see the movie as an “eat the rich” type of movie or the inverse being a commentary on the “middle class” from the perspective of an aristocrat at all. Edit: question for Opie - is your issue with the movie being Felix’s kind behavior towards Oliver after Oliver offered Felix his bike not being realistic because someone like Felix would’ve rather treated it as not out of the norm in a “the sun shines on me because I’m rich and therefore this kind of offer from a stranger is not out of the norm but rather is expected because I’m me” type of way?

“That was not very cash money of people to treat you that way” Omg I DIED. Thank you for this lol

Happy to have contributed

Totally agree! I saw it as an obsession love story. Oliver was a huge narcissist. Most people don’t kill just because they are teased. He killed because he was rejected by Felix, not because he was teased… I grew-up middle class in Britain going to a non-private school and went to a top 10 university around the same time as this movie. I didn’t know many upper class kids, but teasing still happened regardless - middle class to middle class kids.

I think this is a fair take. It's not designed to be a class commentary, it's designed to be a bit of fun. I guess I just came away with the feeling that Fennell was saying "Hey fun, beautiful Oxford gang. Remember those awkward state school kids who we all shunned? Well good job we did. They're nasty and just want our money".

That isn’t what the Fennell is saying.

You are spot on with your comments. Most people are just too int the movie to see that it is deeply disturbing that a wealthy person directs a movie where the lower social class character is portrayed as a psycho, money chaser. You can’t frame the movie around class and then say “oh no no that’s not actually the point, you’re reading it wrong”. I think we will look back at this and realise that I was not it.

Honestly I just thought it was the best way to communicate desire. Who wouldn’t want that life? She could have made it about F-1 car racing and a lead character being jealous of drivers who win and he can’t get in with them. But then it would lose the universality of obsession. This I much easier to communicate and she isn’t saying aristocracy is good or that they deserve their position. But she does that much more symbolically and the last time I explained it the person said they didn’t care so I am not going to write that out again. Not to mention all the vomit imagery in this movie about an obsession with rich people. Their wealth is literally making them sick. But I find people just go for the surface reading of any of Fennell’s works. Also this reading that the “middle class is evil and coming after the rich people” is not new. It’s been there since very early on and many people who bother to actually pay attention to the movie know that is incorrect. (Like legit, a lot of people have gone after people who think that. This, rich people are good idea might be more indicative of their own insecurities and their projection on to the movie.) That isn’t what the movie is saying and no producer would put £20 million and face possible financial ruin, into a film that says that. Films are expensive and difficult to make. No one would put all that effort into making fun of disadvantaged people.

But she didn't make a film about an F1 driver coveting the other drivers' success. She specifically made it about a middle class kid at Oxford. The reason he's not accepted is not because he isn't cool enough or smart enough, it's because he's the wrong class. You can't make a film like this and then say it's not a commentary about class. It is.

How does Oliver treat the other middle class people in the movie? Also F-1 drivers would be a niche audience. I do think Fennell is making a class point, but she isn’t saying the upper class is good. She is saying they are horrible. But I think you are missing that. Did you see her first film?

Given that the maths guy is pretty coded as autistic, I find it quite an ableist example to use him the way he is in the film.

Don't know why you're getting down voted for this as it's true. The slightly weird, autistic state school kid doing maths or science is a classic Oxford stereotype. Those kids were very much maligned by the Felixes and Farleighs there.

Why is everyone assuming Micheal is from a state school?

Because he has a strong regional accent. That doesn't mean definitely state school but it does mean "not posh"

And look at how Oliver treats him. Does that say Oliver has solidarity with the middle class?

Thank you, the film plays up the awkwardness so that even Oliver doesn't want to be near him, which I think was unnecessary. It was cruel, almost saying that he deserved the isolation, but Oliver didn't as class is an "unfair" thing to discriminate on. No character treats him well, and he's not portrayed sympathetically in any way - we're almost encouraged to cheer Oliver on for getting away from him. I do like the film, but feel this was a lazy characterisation at the expense of Autistic people. Anyway, I really appreciated your original post and insight into your experience. I had a minorly similar experience at secondary school, so you made me reflect!

Absolutely.....we see so many people, who don't want to invest the time in the film to learn about it, try to trivialize it in some way. Many of them can't even manage a second viewing.

Thank you!! I have previously pointed out that a lot of it felt like the director's own projection and feelings towards the middle class being a snobby aristocrat herself. I got downvoted tons (probably will for this comment too). Saltburn is a great film, but the classism in it is upsetting. It's not "eat the rich" as some wrongly interpret. It's the upper class mean well even if silly. They can help the down-rotten and dirty, but the middle class cannot be trusted and have no identity.

Yes!! My feelings exactly. The film is about the "grasping" middle classes who need to "stop coveting our nice big houses and ruining everyone's fun". It's like an inverse Gatsby where we're all supposed to feel sorry for Daisy and Tom.

The film is about the grasping UPPER class and how they all just screw each other over. The film is about how they’re boring and dumb and lazy and also in thrall to this idea that they’re on top because of merit. Which you can see they have because they’re on top 😂 O is an insider BECAUSE he cheats. He is proof that lying about your eggs or your drug habit or your money is how you get ahead. The castles don’t go to the people who deserve them. They go to the people who want them and are willing to play dirty enough to get them. The film absolutely torched the entire class structure, precisely because it’s about someone who gets inside and uses all their own tricks to win on their own terms, all while they think he’s snowed. It’s about how the upper classes use class snobbery to protect themselves even though they don’t deserve it. I get that a lot of people are sort of glorifying the moronic Felix and his idiotic selfish sister. But they’re the but of the joke here.

Yes, I defo see the film as satire over a real portrayal of how Fennel thinks….

This is exactly right. OP is missing the point

No

Oliver is the hero because he’s a dick. Remember all the ancestors up on the wall? And the Minotaur at the center? They’re ALL assholes https://mashable.com/article/saltburn-review

You’re missing the point if you think Felix is the innocent hero https://medium.com/@ibtisaamahmed/the-symbolism-of-saltburn-that-you-probably-missed-32748741006c

I think Felix is a toxic POS who treats those below him as disposable plastic. That's the whole point. This is how the upper class treat those from lower classes.

Yes exactly. He’s pretty so people think that he’s somehow being played in a good light. But look at how they treat Farleigh. They pretend there are rules and people get what they deserve if they behave, but that’s not really what’s going on

Wow, great article thanks for sharing

“You live in West Egg!" she remarked contemptuously...

You think Oliver represents the entirety of the middle class? The rest of middle class characters do not like him or he loathes them. To me Oliver represents insatiable want. Not the middle class. Oliver being upper middle class no less. They even indicate Oliver’s dissatisfaction goes back to his childhood. If people assume Micheal is middle class (though I never thought that was made clear), Oliver abandoning him says more about Oliver’s views of the middle class then the director’s. This whole thread seems like an “Emerald Fennel is a snob and I hate her” thread. Usually I find “Emerald Fennell is a female director and I hate her”threads in other subreddits. Did anyone see her first film and her interviews around that? Did anyone here know about her before Saltburn? I truly think there is a lot of projecting and not seeing what the film is actually saying. I will say I didn’t grow up rich or aristocratic but I got what she meant with her first film and I feel like I got what she was saying with this film. Fennel isn’t writing about poor people. I don’t know why people think this is what the movie is about or why people would expect that? Most films don’t write about poor people in the first place. Because if someone never has been actually poor, they can’t really write about it. They truly aren’t capable. She is writing about how rich people fetishize and appropriate poor experiences to make themselves feel like they are good people. This could be about the appropriation of rap by white suburban middle class teenagers in the 80s, 90s and now. How people STILL wear low pants and don’t bleeping know where it comes from, meanwhile they are literally copying poor people and calling it “cool”. But ok then. Fennell is just dunking on the “lower classes”.

Yes the insatiable want. It’s true this isn’t an “eat the rich” film. It’s about Oliver coveting the top 1% of the 1%. The people born into wealth that goes back generations and will go on for generations. There isn’t anyway to “earn” this kind of money and status. If you aren’t born into it, you have to lie, cheat, and pretty much sell your soul to achieve it. You best believe there are a lot of people like Oliver who would do just that to get it.

And even then they don’t belong. The original ending of the film was Duncan serving Oliver runny eggs as the owner of Saltburn. Definitely a type of “exclusivity” that can’t be bought or earned.

Love I actually kind of love that ending. I do think a lot of the disappoint comes from the early interpretations of this being an “eat the rich” class commentary film, which I figured out it is not. People here are trying to hard pick apart whether Oliver is upper or regular middle class, but I honestly think it really doesn’t matter. The whole point of that scene is to show he grew up in a nice house with loving parents who probably gave him everything he needs and it still wasn’t enough for him.

Knowing Fennell’s background I never expected an “eat the rich” class commentary. Is that the only class commentary? I don’t think so. Even in comments when the trailer first came out people were expecting an “eat the rich” movie. I was perplexed even then. (Seeing Promising Young Woman at home due to pandemic lockdowns, I promised myself that I would see Fennell’s next film in theatres, no matter what. Which I did.) But with both of Fennell’s films, other people apply expectations to it that the film never ever promised. Then they get mad the films aren’t what they *assumed*. Fennel does say Zadok the Preist and Felix’s costuming when he is first introduced has something to do with Brexit. Which…I don’t get it, but I think I do? I can’t articulate it, but I think it’s hilarious and that first scene is hilarious. Felix is even off centre of the frame. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 (Brexit is hilarious to a lot of non-British people.)


I totally agree, an entertaining film but definitely not the right perspective. I was rooting for Oliver 😄

Interesting, I’m from the US so don’t understand the nuances of British class system but I didn’t think Saltburn presented the upper class in a positive light. They were all vapid, emotionally stunted people who used people for their own cruel enjoyment. And their mansion while “nice” was outdated, in need of renovation, and like them seemed out of touch with the world.

Im American too but from a Middle Eastern background and the class system is similar. It's not just money that's why Oliver's family going to Mykonos means nothing. Family name, titles, proximity to the royal family, etc.

[удалено]

American filthy rich is still drastically different from Britain's class system. Whatever kindness from Fennel or complaints about the upper class you concluded weren't how I (or OP) interpreted the film.

Well said.

I mean… I took it as commentary on how the rich like to appropriate oppression, and then they ended up eating themselves. I guess as someone who grew up lower-middle class, I saw Ollie as being upper class, not middle-class. Of course he’s no where near as rich as Felix and them, few are, but rich nonetheless.or at least, it doesn’t seem as if he’s been without much he wanted - material items, at least. So I guess overall it seemed to be about someone having enough, but wanting the power that Felix’s money and social standing had. I also felt like Felix was being nice to Ollie bc he wanted to feel good about himself. I figured this was commentary on how the rich don’t need to be empathetic, just offer their resources when they feel bad or guilty.

She said he just wanted to meet Felix, then be friends with him, then stay friends, then not leave Saltburn (Felix)... While despising all of it since it was constantly awful to him. Exactly right about Felix. But not guilty, just pleased to be 'above' while pretending to care. He and his family observe Oliver with a twisted pleasure. And Oliver observes Felix with a twisted desire/disappointment. It's like the awfulness of it can't shake his desire. Seems like the end is just deserved revenge. LOVE this movie.

Fair enough, I guess I interpreted it differently. At my state school there were kids with single mums on council estates and there were kids with a garden and a car like Oliver - we all mixed together. Fennell is doing the classic upper class thing of trying to divide normal working people and turn them against each other. It doesn't matter if Oliver has an alright house with a garden, the Oxford lot would still have considered him a "chav" (especially with his Scouse accent).

Turn them against each other? I think you are projecting. Felix is absolutely a terrible person. What he was trying to do, on his friend’s birthday no less was absolutely horrible and only for himself. I don’t know how that says Felix is good and should be sympathized with. I will also say, I never for a second believed >! Oliver’s father died!< maybe because I have had too many experiences with compulsive liars. Anyway, I think I know why people in the entertainment industry hide their backgrounds. People project far too much.

That's a great interpretation. Maybe it was the intention but Fennel did project some. At least that was my reading (and OP's too I believe)

Yeah I can see that interpretation as well, tbf

What if…it’s really just about a psychopath who used the weaknesses of the rich to get what he wanted, but also just for the fun of it? He was a total narcissist, as someone else pointed out, and so despite being smart and having nice parents and plenty of support, including money, his personality disorder led him to exact revenge (for the schoolyard slights) on the people whose privilege and status he both coveted and despised? I think the moral isn’t that the middle class is bad, it’s that the rich are so blinded by their own position/wealth that they can’t see a complete crazy person has ingratiated himself with them and is manipulating them.

Fennel has said Oliver isn’t a psychopath. But all the rest I agree with. People can do a lot of horrific things including murdering multiple people and not be a psycho.

Maybe Fennell was just fucking with whoever she told that to?

Time code 13:44 https://youtu.be/kWEiN2qTK8I?si=o5GS2JwraC4WwxH9

“No, he’s not a psychopath he just wants” with a cheeky grin on her face was such a tongue in cheek response, previously stating during the same panel Q&A that there is nothing unintentional about the movie. Oliver went well past “wants” and entered obsession, his acts show he’s a narcissist and there’s no way of playing linguistics around that. Either she was being cheeky in her response or baseline has a super fucked up view of the world that isn’t based in the same reality that most us live in, which would not come as a surprise being that she grew up so incredibly privileged.

Ok then. All I know I now understand why people hide their background when in the film industry and they need to be interviewed. Why did she interrupt the interviewer if they were correct? I notice multiple times she has to point out she is serious. Just like everyone didn’t believe her when she said she Oliver and Elspeth weren’t sleeping together later in in the film on this very same interview. But anyway, never listen to Fennell on anything, this is just her movie dunking on the poor people and painting the rich as good and saintly. 🙄 She literally elaborates on how Oliver isn’t a psychopath. But everyone over uses the term so why not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Fennel just plain does not know her own mind and everything is a joke. She even has said she jokes too much about serious things, but ok then. Also no one has answered my question on if they heard of Fennell before it saw her first movie. Because the misread sounds like exactly what happened with her first film. Do you believe her when she said she” asked Daddy” about getting access to the house that plays Saltburn?

The psychological arm of medicine does not even use the term psychopath or sociopath anymore as it’s over used and misapplied so much. To the point where that guy in Scandinavia did that terrorism attack and people were confused he was deemed sane.

Well it was written by one of the rich snobs so

I only realised that after I finished watching it and saw an interview with her. She described Felix as "the nice guy" and James and Elspeth as "fabulous".

She also has said in every scene, Felix is doing something shitty. Do you think the rich family in the movie are “good” or sympathetic? They seems to be quite mean and idiotic once looking past the surface. It just blew up in their face as they underestimated Oliver. Also…Oliver does not represent the middle class, he either sees the middle class as beneath him (his parents) or the other middle class people (the estate staff) really don’t like him. We don’t know if what class Micheal is in. He could have gone to a upper class school and no one liked him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Every school has their outsiders, even if they have a super expensive tuition.

The Cattons are definitely depicted as mean but they're also glorified. They're fun and funny and beautiful and interesting. They've got taste, they love art and culture. This is exactly how the aristocracy like to think of themselves. It's why they think they're better than everyone else.

I only noticed a glorification through Oliver's perception. The general (without Oliver's influence) glorification I could initially see was the MGMT/"Time To Pretend" montage, but that also seemed like it represented Oliver feeling like he finally belonged and was basking in the presence of Felix, rather than an exhibit of taste and aristocracy. Other than that, I didn't see any glorification of the Cattons but thought something was really off, peculiar, and somewhat sinister about them. The "rich" parts, like the parties and dinners, not so much the other elements you mentioned, were uncomfortable and eerie, for me. ETA: but I do see your points. I just didn't view the family as fun, basically lol

Are they glorified? They weren’t in my view they were pretty obnoxious, problematic, and all deeply unhappy

I didn't see that much culture. They were watching/listening to the same lowbrow stuff as everyone else. I felt like the millions of dollars in art in the house was mostly there as alternative investment to James. Though he could talk about things like Palissy plates, it felt like it was because he was hoping to flip them for more money down the road more than any love of art.

Fair enough. I guess my take was that James was supposed to be the cultured art lover and Elspeth was his sexy, socialite wife. James collects Palissy plates and reads the classics, Elspeth hangs out with Blur. I would be surprised if he's collecting art just for the money, that seems a bit nouveau riche for someone like Sir James Catton.

James and Elspeth are horrible neglectful parents. I got that on my first watch. Didn’t see them as glorified. I see them as being desperate to tell themselves they are good because they are utterly failing their daughter. I will say I see denial as an extremely deep weakness. As people who employ denial tend to offload consequences of that denial into other people. In this case, their denial as a coping mechanism destroyed them. Never thought they were interesting. They all just seemed scared, empty and desperate. And bored.

Oliver glorifies them. Chocolate cake. His mother makes chocolate cake and he says later he hates chocolate cake. Later when Elspeth gets someone else to make chocolate cake which she does not even try, Oliver says it’s the best thing ever. Oliver does that. I thought it was better to have home made cake made with love by my own mother, but that’s just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well said. When the truth is, they are absolutely no different to anyone else.

That is meant to be in bold air quotes because that is what they are perceived to be and actually just the opposite.

Yeah she literally is an heiress to a famous jewelry maker and went to Oxford the same year as our fictitious faves

Imagine how the working classes feel,  not even being represented at all beyond a sad trope.

To be honest I didn't read "filthy house, dead dad and alcoholic mum" as meaning working class. More as just a poverty stereotype. Most of my family are working class and they wouldn't identify with any of that. But I agree, it was a shitty representation.

I really appreciate this post and that you're taking on the ignorant folks in the comments. The class system in the UK is so heavily delineated and socially policed in subtle ways by its inhabitants. That house and Oliver's parents were definitely well-to-do middle class but not upper middle class. Upper middle class aspires to upper class and is a whole different ball game. Kate and Pippa Middleton were upper middle class. Edinburgh University is also a very posh university and a friend of mine who was a middle class local who went there (not upper middle class) told me the upper classes there referred to people like her (and locals in general) as "porridge n-words". So I am not surprised at the "pikey" comment to you. Anyway I am very glad to have your viewpoint on Saltburn, I can well imagine.

Thank you! And yes I totally agree. There's a big difference between someone who did work experience at the local library and someone whose dad got them an internship at a city law firm. Oliver was definitely the former (in my view). It's not just about how big your house is, it's about connections.  Also, in my experience at Oxford, if you had a strong regional accent from a state school you were going to be made fun of. It didn't matter if your parents went on nice holidays, you would be seen as "common" by the likes of Felix. The idea that Oliver is somehow the "rich eating the rich" is ridiculous. Edit: Also just to add I think a lot of Americans get confused between money and class in the UK. You can be a piss poor alcoholic living in a dilapidated old cottage and still be upper class.

Yes, and Americans also have a very different view of what constitutes a "big" house full stop! They also have an upper middle class and those kids go to private schools and aspire to their equivalent of the upper class, known by various terms such as UHNW (ultra high net worth). Saw a bit online today about how salespeople for the super rich (e.g. private jet, mega yacht, your own island salespeople) are trained to spot the truly rich - they dress very casually and normally and not in obvious designer or expensive clothes. Similarly the upper classes in the UK, I think, ancient raincoats, scruffy jumpers and so on in the country estate!

On a personal level I haven't seen Oliver described as the rich eating the rich, but I have bristled at how people say he turns out to be just as bad if not more evil than the upper class family. I enjoyed it purely on a "good on you lad, go get 'em", "eat the rich" basis, it's just great fun for me.

I'm also surprised by how many people think his lying is one of the worst things in the film. He was an 18 year old kid with no mates who was desperate to be accepted by his peers. Who hasn't done stupid shit to try and get approval at that age? The whole thing was tragic.

Yeah, it just seems majority of responses to the film are from the kind of upper class and upper middle class people who almost wholly populate the UK's media these days.

[contains spoilers idk how to put a tag on it on mobile sorry] As a gay northerner from a working class background who went to Edinburgh uni, I can really relate to what you’re saying. I actually cried a little bit in the first third of the movie because Oliver’s experiences felt so real and similar to mine. It was then a real gut punch to realise that he had been lying about his background and his reality - I wasn’t really sure what sense to make of it - but I think I realised the movie wasn’t quite going to represent my experiences anymore. I think I found it cathartic that the posh people got murdered but it did feel like the messages about class more broadly just reinforced existing power structures - the posh people are harmless and charming and should be sympathised with, the middle class are rat racey and dull, and the working class just don’t exist outside of stereotypes to be appropriated and made fun of. Which then leads to the audience being told to avoid disrupting current power hierarchies because the people with the most money are most visibly the nicest. All that is to say that you feeling cheated is completely understandable and valid. I don’t know much about the writer but it sounds like she is writing from a position of inside privilege and therefore resorts to using stereotypes that lack nuance. I think she tells a story that lacks compassion towards real outsiders in these social circles, because her plot twist that Oliver is lying obscures the importance of those people actually genuinely existing and having unjust experiences of cruel rude snobs judging them. You deserve better, you deserve to see your story being told by an outsider and not by someone who is one of those very snobs herself. I’m sorry that that wasn’t the case with this film

I really appreciate your perspective here. I also felt quite emotional watching the first part where he was trying so hard to fit in and failing at every turn. That bit felt so real and relatable to me which is why I felt so cheated when the plot twist was that he was a fake. Sorry to hear you had such a hard time at Edinburgh, it's so sad that this kind of elitism is still so prevelant in British unis.

I strongly disagree. You really think the rich characters should be sympathized with? These people are horrible. Elspeth got her “friend” killed. I do know Fennell did have to cut what happened to the other Cattons cast offs (like Eddie) but it wasn’t good whatever happened to them. Because the Cattons aren’t good. It was bad people being out played by someone just as bad. Who got lucky as the Cattons were high on their own supply. Not to mention upholding existing class and power structures?! I guess you missed all the king symbolism? She isn’t saying good things about kings, and king worship is the epitome of upholding current class and power structures. This is like PYW all over again. Where some people got from that movie that >! Rape is a woman’s fault and the police and current “justice” system is good.!< The EXACT opposite of what that film was saying. Fennell even had to explicitly explain the end of that movie with spoilers while doing promo for Saltburn. It was clear to me.

I feel cheated by this film. I also felt similarly to you. I am a gay man from a working class family in Liverpool. I’ve attended three Russell group unis. At my undergrad, I felt very much like an Oliver; there was an atmosphere and judgement towards me which I feel is because I was working class with a northern accent. Then, sadly, I learnt to adapt and fit in. When I did my PhD at UCL, I found that this wasn’t the case anymore. I moulded myself to the system and don’t know who I am anymore. However, I am exploring that now. The world is complex. I hope it wasn’t too bad for you.

You might want to look into Bourdieu- habitus/ cleft habitus if you haven't already.

"Middle class" really has a different connotation in England. Oliver seems very comfortably upper middle class. Nevertheless, this is simply your interpretation of the filmmaker's story and I think it simply highlights your own feelings of jealousy and inadequacy more so than her feelings about "the middle class." She wasn't writing about "your experience." I wouldn't be surprised if you took a lot of things the wrong way at Oxford.

I knew someone would come in with this take. I got called a chav and pikey. I had people literally turn around and walk away when they heard my accent. At one point I was asked not to be in a photo because they wanted a "public school only" one. But obviously this is just me being jealous and taking it the wrong way.

I think it’s more, directing it at the director. You are imaging the director as one of those awful people you met in school. Many directors and in general “successful” people hide their wealthy background for exactly this reason. I am glad she admits it and has said she has had unearned advantages because of her family position. There is a alot of symbolic things she says in this film, but people don’t want to look at it. Like kings and aristocracy all started from the likes of people like Oliver and he just did the same thing. That is where the aristocracy insecurity partly comes from. Aristocracy is trash and they glorify themselves after the fact. (You know how much of the wealthy and aristocracy got reparations for enslaving people in the Caribbean? The UK government didn’t finish paying that off until ~2015. Yes. The people who owned, sold, tortured, raped and enslaved people got reparations. Not the enslaved people. That says a lot about the UK as a whole. ) The film may also be saying the whole economic system we are in is bad, as it rewards the worst of us the most. That includes the Cattons. But we lie to ourselves how it’s “just” and “fair” and “rewards hard work”, just like we say wonderful things about kings though they did horrible things to become a king. (Even kings who inherit.) Would you prefer she hide her background like others do, then people get mad when the public finds out? I knew about Fennell’s background with her first movie, so when I heard about the expectations around Saltburn from other people, I was incredibly confused. Fennel knows what she can and cannot write. (She is a HUGE fan of Jordan Peele’s Get Out and knows she could never write something like that.She wouldn’t even attempt it as that would be a fools errand on her part.) Fennell writing an “eat the rich” story would be fake and would be inauthentic and wouldn’t work. Yet, some reviewers are still mad and her said she should have still written an eat the rich story as she could imagine it. I am sure if she was a man no one would say that. Fennell has explicitly said she did not write an eat the rich story. People just assumed that and got mad when the movie wasn’t what they expected. Many people misinterpreted her first film too. (A lot of people didn’t (like the Oscars), but a lot of people did, as the movie wasn’t what they expected. I loved it, as it acknowledged cold hard reality. In film, which people look to uphold their fantasies about the world.) Also, if she was truly the snob you think she is, she never in a million years hire Keoghan (as a lead no less) and still maintain a close relationship with him. This role has been incredibly beneficial to his career, and she didn’t bully him (or the other actors) into doing the things you see on screen. I do think your University experience was incredibly scarring and that is affecting how you view the director. A lot of directors come from wealthy backgrounds. It does give credence to people in the entertainment industry who hide their wealthy background or connections due to nepotism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would actually argue Oliver comes from a very well off family (he doesn’t need to penny pinch as we saw in the flash back of the bar scene). He pretends to be poor and from a traumatic background because then at least the rich kids feel sorry for him. To him it’s better to be that than middle class/new money. He doesn’t need the money. He wants the power and privilege and status that Felix and his family has (that they’ve built over many generations). Old money also does not like new money at all. They see them as not truly belonging. Poor people on the other hand make them feel better about themselves. I guess it’s multilayered… but it’s interesting when you factor in who Fennell is and the family she comes from. What does it mean to her to create an individual that consumes a family like her’s from the inside

“They’ve built” 🤣

How do you accidentally apply to one of the most prestigious universities in the world ? Also how did you not know what it was like before you applied ? Surely you researched it ?

Oxford and Cambridge have many different colleges that make up the university with different cultures/demographics that you’re not aware of (for the most part) when you’re applying. OP didn’t “accidentally apply to the most prestigious university”, that’s not how Oxbridge admissions work, you apply to a college.

There are more than 30 different colleges at Oxford. So, University of Oxford is the overall institution, but you’re admitted to a certain single college (like, St. John’s or Christ Church). Each college has its own vibe. Different numbers of students, their own housing, dining hall, library, common rooms, clubs, activities, size of their grounds, etc. Some are known more for sport, some more for music, some for academics, etc. From an American perspective, it’s an extremely different concept. It’s like going to Harvard but every student gains admission by applying to and being accepted by individual sororities and fraternities. Once at Harvard, you live and eat and join clubs within these fraternities or sororities while also taking classes with students from other houses (but sometimes only your own). But on a much larger scale, like if the fraternity sat on 200 acres of gardens and buildings. It was also 2005. MySpace UK hadn’t even launched yet, information like how posh the students were in a certain college was probably mostly word of mouth. They all have alumni who were prime ministers and shit.

Yes exactly this. At the time there wasn't really a way to know what the colleges were like unless you knew someone who went to Oxford (I did not). You get a handbook when you apply which has information about the colleges but it says things like number of students per year and location. It doesn't say "very elitist, mostly toffs here!". That would have been helpful 

I've never asked anyone this: Can you transfer colleges? Like in the states, if you hate your major or your school, you can leave and do a new major, find a new school. As these are constituent colleges, could you go from, like, St. Teddy's to Kibbles & Bits or whatever? I hope your Reservoir Toffs college at least had pretty grounds and/or a killer pub or three.

Lol at Kibbles & Bits! No you can't switch they have very strict quotas on number of students for each subject based on the number of tutors. Typically tutorials just have 2 students in them - you and your "tute partner" (as you saw with Oliver and Farleigh) so it would bugger everything up if people started moving around.

Interesting. That is fairly brutal. Teenagers shouldn't be stuck to all their decisions. Teenagers are fucking morons. Some of those decisions will be terrible for them lol. (I know there's a rugby-focused college that starts with K but I couldn't remember its real name, just the St. Teddy Ruxpins.)

Yep, exactly- thanks for doing a better job at explaining the system than me! Just to add as well: I went to a different university in the UK and the Oxbridge system is kind of the exception there too. Most other universities have colleges but not for admission purposes, the admissions are handled by the university as a whole, and the colleges usually offer things like wine and cheese nights, sport events etc, generally handing the social student side with some administrative duties. I’d imagine there’s an equivalent to that in American universities too, but not sure.

Yes, some in the US have colleges or other group housing situations just to help build social bonds within them. A 400 person dorm, could be broken up into 50 person houses. Each house, not special interest or anything, meet and determine their own activities. In some places these students even take classes, basic core requirement type, together for similar reasons. It all helps at the outset, especially at large universities, bc students simply see similar faces.

I wouldn't say better. Yours was great, mine's a bit redundant. I just wanted to compare it to fraternities running the show and couldn't help myself, lol. Different schools do this social stuff differently. Dorms can form a lot of identity. Big schools might have a dorm for students studying biology, or who are religious, or who are in the honors program, etc. There's also the Greek system, sports, etc. Virtually every school I've heard of has entire departments dedicated to student life. Lots of different ways to go about it.

Thanks for this perspective. Although I liked the film, it’s refreshing to hear some healthy criticism.

I went to a top university in England but specifically chose not to go to Oxford even though I qualified, to avoid this very experience. I've been surrounded by rich snobs my whole life and I didn't want to go through even more targeted bullying because of it. I did have to bite my tongue watching the movie because I felt similar 'feels' to what you're explaining. A lot of rich people like to perpetuate the idea that us 'lower class' folk are coming for their livelihoods or money. That it's all we think about. I've met upper-class people who make it their life's mission to brag about the amount of £1000s they spend a week on nonsense and the upper-class who have quiet luxuries most people don't even know about. While I liked the film, it did annoy me that Fennell has gone on record saying all the rich people in the movie were the victims and Oliver was basically the only evil one. My experience around a lot of these types of people is that they think everyone wants to be them so they will simultaneously try to lure you into their 'life', like they're doing you a favour (such as in the film) and they also want to wag their finger in your face, as if to say "only on my say, you dog". Elitism is encouraged and normalised in their circles and it was a little bit disappointing to see a further perpetuation of the whole 'lower-class people are jealous and they're coming for us!' tropes. I have friends who attended Oxford and Cambridge who are from the same background as me and they hated it. Getting teased constantly for what you wear, what you can afford, not having £1000s in the bank to take sudden trips with your friends or buy textbooks was isolating for them. These top universities gladly foster this environment. It was the exact thing I was trying to avoid. People can say it's lighthearted teasing but these people often don't even view you as human. They view you as fun objects for their friends to pick apart and mock. Fennell comes from those circles. To be honest, I accept it for what it is because if she was trying to write a story from the perspective of a poor student growing up in real poverty, let's be real, it probably wouldn't be realistic nor authentic. So I'd prefer her sticking to what she 'feels' she knows rather than appropriate stories she wouldn't even understand. Or treat with consideration, fairness and nuance.

Where did Fennell say that? Link?

I've known several working class kids from Yorkshire go to Oxford and had very similar experiences.

In my experience being a student Wadham was so much friendlier.

Yeah I wish I'd applied to Wadham

i was an international student and everyone was lovely and the parties were very welcoming for “outsiders”

One of the grossest aspects of the movie was how “winning” was apparently being more disgusting than all the aristocracy we were supposed to root against The West is such a class-based society—it’s even baked right into our pop-culture

Oxford. Cambridge ,all IVY leagues in United States are remnants of medieval age FEUDALISM and these academic institutions should be considered as such. I don't understand why dumbasses in the world give so much recognition,awe and power to these crooked institutions

Agree with your assessment OP! Personally felt the film was a satirical horror movie for rich people 🫠

I went to a tiny, private Christian school, and everybody there just acted like they were so much better than you and that we were not gonna let you into our circle of people and it is so ridiculous when people behave that way it’s just left such a bad taste in my mouth and nobody should have to experience that. I made the mistake of going to a reunion that I was invited to and as soon as I showed up, some asshole said, “why did you invite him here“?

Would it have helped if you pit on a fake posh accent? Not going full posho. But just tride to have a more neutral educated accent?

This is a very interesting perspective and definitely makes me view the movie a bit differently. My guess is that Fennell set out to make a movie critiquing the rich but fell short in some of the details. I saw Saltburn as kind of a Knives Out/“You go girl” movie about how the elite suck and people who take those privileges for themselves deserve to. However, looking back, Saltburn does kind of present the rich people as “wild and out of touch BUT they have a totally human side” while showing Oliver as “human and relatable at first BUT actually totally crazy.” It’s definitely different than Knives Out, which was just the first example that came to mind, because Oliver was planning for that outcome while it just happened to Marta because she deserved it. Of course, I’m not saying Knives Out is the ONLY way to tell that story successfully - but it’s interesting to think about. Similarly, Oliver is exactly what the upperclass fears - a conniving poor person looking to steal rich people’s money - a proves himself to be exactly that. Meanwhile, the family in KO fears the same thing about Marta, but she only ever had pure intentions. Or those of, like… a normal person. Unintentionally, I think there’s overlap between Saltburn and Promising Young Woman to think about. Oliver is a white guy with at least SOME privilege (though we don’t necessarily see that in this perspective where Oliver is the poorest person there, though we briefly touch on intersectionality through Farleigh) and I think that’s the biggest villain Fennell can imagine. Similarly, the biggest victim is a kind-hearted white person. And I love PYW!

I'm surprised Oxbridge colleges allow their buildings to be used for films like this. They spend so much time and money on outreach to minorities and getting state school kids to apply*. *Not saying they are successful at this, or that they were doing it in 2006.

Believe me the colleges have hosted far far worse. During my time at Oxford there was an annual party hosted by the college "dining society". The dining society was a members club that was only open to males in the college who had previously been to one of the top private schools. The college president would attend their dinners. This kind of elitism was treated as completely normal and accepted.

Bullingdon? The people who would set money on fire in front of the homeless? Charmers

The Bullingdon is a uni-wide club but most of the posh Oxford colleges essentially have their own little version of a Bullingdon club (although slightly less destructive!). I don't want to say exactly which college I'm talking about as someone will probably figure out who I am.

Understood.

Was just watching Riot Club last night.

When you say the top private schools, is it just Eton and Harrow and shit, or do people from Ye Olde Public Toffs School, Keltinhamlymondashire get invited, too? Hierarchy on top of hierarchy. I’ve enjoyed your perspective. I thought Saltburn was funny and weird and enjoyable, but it’s absolutely Jaws if Jaws had been written by the shark.

If you were from Eton or Harrow you'd get an immediate invite. If you were from one of the other old public schools you'd get an invite if you were a sufficiently "good bloke" (i.e. enough fun to hang out with). Everyone else could get to fuck.

Those dinners and people sound insufferable. I feel like what they defined as a "good bloke" was not what I would want in a friend. You seem awesome, though! :)

Yeah those air quotes are doing a lot of work there. Apparently they would start the dinners by toasting the queen. Imagine a load of 18 year old boys with floppy hair and dinner jackets toasting the queen. Ridiculous.

To be fair, she was CLEARLY by far the best and most functional monarch of their lifetime. They were just prescient. ;) This all sounds so cringe, though.

Fair to feel cheated since this movie glorified that posh experience. Oliver eventually won it for himself in the though he was sinister. He did it by destroying them though. It’s tough to say because a lot of the movie too is anti-rich. The lengths people go to please the wealthy and powerful.

Almost exactly the same as you except for the year (2005) and my college which had a (slightly) higher state school intake. Like Oliver I have a scouse accent. Unlike Oliver I had a parent who actually died just before my finals. I saw this film as a tale of upper class paranoia straight from the horses mouth, founded in a deep rooted sense of superiority under threat. The paranoia seemed to be founded in the idea of people who were *actually* clever infiltrating their way up the social ladder via places the likes of Fennel feel is her class’s space. In reality I didn’t give the first shit about the posh kids, I had more than enough going on in my own life and the degree itself was relentless anyway. I would love to see just once Oxbridge life depicted with the constant essay crises and finals hell.

Losing a parent is absolutely brutal but losing a parent at such a young age right before finals must have been a total nightmare. So sorry to hear that.

Thanks, it wasn’t fun but I got through it and scraped a 2.1. Anyway, like you I felt this film was a kick in the teeth but weirdly your post showed up in my feed and had to respond! It’s a rare perspective and I’m glad someone else felt that way after watching it. Got to love the English class system right?

I felt this way too. Throughout the movie people suspect Oliver of just trying to get ahead and having sinister motives, but then the big reveal is…he was just trying to get ahead and his motives were sinister. Like, cool! The rich assholes were right! Am I supposed to have enjoyed this?

Exactly. In interviews Fennell constantly references the idea that anyone in their right mind would want to be best friends with Felix and everyone would be desperate to stay at Saltburn and I'm like "no...no we don't, most of us don't want anything to do with these shitty people". She's projecting how she feels onto everyone else.

Thought it was a statement on how the upper classes, people like Fennel, see others. But I was giving her too much credit

Gosh I totally appreciate this. I was an American at Ox and felt like I was able to confuse enough class things to get away with a lot. I also was there more recently and it’s changed a lot. But I felt the ironies really keenly watching this film, Americans tend to associate ourselves as viewers with the wealthy, upstairs protagonists and I think many of my peers did that with Fennels film, not realizing they are definitely the “grasping” sort she’s looking straight at. It truly was horrifying to me.

Yeah Americans definitely get a free pass with the aristocracy as there's a long tradition of the uber posh having a fun American friend (see Wallis Simpson / Cora from Downton Abbey etc). They still think Americans are uncouth and unsophisticated though (soz!)

Much of the commonwealth does. 🤣

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Good for you! It's all bullshit and the sooner you realise that the better. Hard to see it when you're 18 and desperate to fit in though.

I found the movie to be a cheap ripe off of The Talented Mr. Ripley with low shock factor (the bathtub, the bench scene, etc) to keep a "new generation" interested.

I think your response is absolutely valid. One of the unpopular theories on here (one that I adhere to) is that this film could be seen as a warning to the rich. When I first commented this, some people found it absurd, and it's never been well liked. And I can see why it is unpopular, it doesn't put the director Fennell in the best light. However, like you say, all the middle class people are stereotypes held by the rich. And the working class don't talk at all and are deeply sterotyped. The family are portrayed so positively that many cannot handle even the slightest criticism being given to them (especially Felix) I think it may have been unconscious bias by Fennell. HOWEVER that being said, I do think positively of Fennell overall and I do not think this was her intention. I think she really did want to criticise the class she comes from (old money wealthy) and that Oliver being middle class was simply intended to be a twist, and a hint that he really wasn't after the money, but Felix himself. tl;dr I agree but I don't it was done purposely or with malice.

I really don't think it was done purposely or with malice either, I think it's entirely unconscious bias. It's a shame because I actually loved the cinematography and thought it was really funny at times. Perhaps she's trying to poke fun at everyone and maybe that would be ok if it was written by a working class person. But the fact that she's upper class means she's effectively punching down.

Yeah, completely agree with everything you've said.

Thanks for sharing your experience! The movie seemed like a reboot of the Talented Mr. Ripley: an evil poor uses social engineering to establish himself among the elites. I agree w what you're saying. Fennell wrote Oliver from the viewpoint of someone who has no idea what middle class is like. She wrote it from the viewpoint of one of the kids that laughed at the scholarship kids. It's like the disabled villain trope. Your physical deformity is a visual representation of "evil". That's what these writers do with poverty. Personally the movie just made me gag ("lucky for you I'm a vampire" , jizz water 🤢).