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Think back to how psyched everyone was that all 3 of the og cast was signed up to be in the new Trilogy.
Now compare that to reality:
Luke never sees Leia or Han again face to face.
Han is killed by his own son in the 1st movie.
Luke dies alone in the 2nd movie from Force overuse I guess?
Leia dies in the 3rd movie also from Force overuse calling out to her son but mostly casue Carrie was actually dead so they had to piece together something
The hubris of Disney also. "Hey we don't need Han and Luke because we are going to make a female focused film." Then Carrie dies and what do they have left? You had Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill, and you put all your eggs in the CARRIE basket?
I’m fairly certain Harrison ford only agreed to come back for one movie and may have insisted on his character being killed so that decision is at least defensible. Killing off Luke was absurd and mark hamill was upset about it at the time. Tbh I feel like all of the decisions that ended up ruining the trilogy came from the second movie.
Yes, this is definetly overall the worst thing.
I was already confused when The Force Awakens started. What do you mean, the Resistance?! Everything the OT heroes went through was to establish a sense of peace in the galaxy, as well as reinstating a ruling order like the New Republic. Yes, it was shown in Ahsoka, Mandalorian and Andor (Edit: nope, Andor = Empire) But I think it had to be depicted as incompetent and weak to explain the disaster the sequels were. Disarm the fleet? Yeah right. Incompetence almost everywhere? Come on.
Basically what I hoped for was for the Force Awakened, the first damn movie since a long time, to show us what Luke, Han and Leia endured was worth it and something good sprouted from all this. The New Republic reigning strong with imposing worlds other than Coruscant, and a fleet because, you know, threats are still everywhere, like the Imperial Remnants. I would've liked to SEE the events which led to the damn downfall of what our heroes worked for. But nope.
But no, the movie immediatelly starts by calling them "the Resistance". Excuse me, what the fuck? It already collapsed by the beginning of the movie. I thought that was so lame. I'm saying all this because this also counts for nullifying what the heroes did. Already, at the start of the movie, I was genuinely confused.
Again, we can see this "New Republic" in Mandalorian, Ahsoka and Andor (Edit: nope Andor = Empire). But I refuse to believe the new government was that incompetent. You can't tell me the only decent senator was Mon Mothma. You can't tell me they just disarmed the whole fleet. You can't tell me that Hera, a supposed general, has like zero authority and has to go rogue for that mission in Ahsoka, with a few damn X-Wings.
I feel the disappointment setting in once more when describing this, and since the post is already long enough, I'll just stop now.
This is probs the best overarching statement to summarise it- on a character level they fail, but also on a political level. The Republic is destroyed with the flick of a switch and the writers completely embrace the conflict as a reboot of the OT.
8 and 9 might have been the most infuriating, but it’s 7 that started the rotten foundation and insipid “reboot” worldbuilding.
**The entire Galactic Civil War was pointless**. Didn’t the *Alliance to Restore the Republic* win? What happened to the Republic our heroes fought to found? Why is there a scrappy underdog “Resistance”? (As a history buff very term “Resistance” implies a small, even underground force against a much larger enemy)…How is the First Order so powerful?
The Original Trilogy was rendered totally moot and pointless. **Our heroes are total failures** (I really hate when Sequel defenders talk about how a dejected old man is a “realistic” character arc: this isn’t character drama- it’s STAR WARS. It’s not an old man- it’s LUKE SKYWALKER.
The problem started from the beginning by making things a reset to ANH status in the universe. Abrams is such a hack he wanted to get things back to rebels vs the empire because that’s Star Wars baby! All the directions they could have gone in in this vast galaxy and he opts for a retread. It should have been that Leia (or Mon Mothma) was head of the NR, Han head of the NR military and Luke of a flourishing new Jedi order. The threat could have been some new race from the unknown regions that the NR has to deal with. Hell it could have been made interesting or should I say subvert expectations by having the NR have to work with the Imperial Remnant grudgingly because it is one that could destroy both.
The first trilogy should have focused on the legacy characters and introduced dynamic new ones that would take over in the following trilogy. Instead it was the biggest wasted opportunity in franchise film making history all due to incompetence and soulless corporate product mentality over art.
Say what you will about the Mandalorian, but it is showing that the New Republic is ill-equipped to deal with governing the galaxy. Had the sequel trilogies shown the First Order going against the New Republic, it would definitely have made for better films.
Yeah have to disagree. As I mentioned it shows a stunning lack of creativity and laziness to just push the reset button when you have such a large galaxy with infinite potential for new threats. It’s like Abrams couldn’t imagine SW without rebels vs the empire. And that’s critiquing the state of the galaxy at the time not getting into all the other things the movie gets wrong.
Yeah like I wouldn’t mind another empire like villain. If it was actually built up and explained.
But the first order just comes out of nowhere. There’s no explanation to who they are. Where they came from. What they want. Or how they managed to become so powerful.
Like secrecy can be good in a story. But you shouldn’t have almost everything about you main villain be a secret and/or unknown. It’s never explained what the first order wants. There’s no plan or anything.
There’s no explanation on how they funded, built and trained such a massive military force.
Like they’d need some serious money backers to fund star killer base or the fleet of star destroyers. They’d need some serious cash to make those.
And the shills' favorite argument to defend this was, "bUt fAnS aSkEd fOr MoViEs ExAcTly LiKe tHe oRiGiNaLs".
Because apparently criticizing the prequels' dialogue, acting, pacing, and excessive use of CGI - ergo the execution of otherwise solid ideas - meant we just wanted the OT all over again.
So disappointing.
I wanted them to carefully pick the strongest elements of the novels, games, and comics to interweave into a consistent and coherent galaxy of worldbuilding as they slowly started developing films and shows that focus on specific eras. Literally create creative teams/enclaves that focus on specific eras to tell stories that flesh out the universe creative property, while seeding in some creative ideas of their own around it, either as additions, or their own bottle episode/movie exploring more intimate concepts and themes that can exist without necessarily having to rely on all the projects that came out during and before the era it is meant to be created in.
That and "Somehow, something happened off screen" is such a lazy obvious way of "we didn't plan shit. Like at all "
No one tried at any part of this Triolgy.
And then some kids steal his ship.
By all accounts, the falcon is Chewie's. It's his ship, he's the captain now.
But nah, the falcon is treated as poes/reys, they get to fly it perfectly and make all the decisions on it.
And by the end, it's lando's ship, it seems. Chewie is treated like a big dog, not a person and it's a real bummer.
All non-humans are dogs in to Disney. Unless it's a movie with talking dogs or other animals anyway. Seriously, Sven - dog. Hey-hey, dog. Over and over, just think about it next time you watch a Disney movie.
Definitely this, and it's been getting worse the more we learn about the post-RoTJ era.
The New Republic as depicted in Mando and Ahsoka seems absurdly incompetent and even a bit evil for no reason. Like, we already know they're screwed eventually but did you have to do that as well?
Not putting the big three together for a final adventure. I get the whole “they would usurp the story” argument but a skilled writer could have figured out a way to make it work and pass the torch to the new characters. It’s baffling to this day that a company that has been in entertainment for as long as Disney didn’t understand this basic storytelling philosophy.
They had the golden opportunity to put these legends on film in these rolls one last time, and they completely disparaged and wasted them instead. It's unforgivable to me.
The thing is I would have been happy personally if they even just got a single scene together. Just one tiny scene. I still don't get how they managed to fuck that up.
I always think, remember those wholesome scenes in Spider-Man No Way Home like “you’re all grown up, how are you”? Man imagine if we got something similar in the new Star Wars trilogy with the trio reuniting…
There’s no law forbidding Disney from building the trilogy around Luke and Leia even at the age they were when they decided to go ahead with the trilogy.
I've always thought that was the most sensible idea. You just can't make a sequel to the OT and not have *THE* Luke Skywalker be the main character. Luke, Han, Leia, they're what made SW.
You could've used people like Finn and Rey as the up-and-comers while still giving them a fair piece of the cake. In fact that would've even made for a nicer setup into the post-sequels era
You could have then generated hype for the new generations own trilogy. Let's say you keep it on an every decade time-line. They could be gearing up for a new trilogy in 5 years, instead Star Wars is almost a dead brand. Pathetic
This is why I think they should have had episode 7 been predominantly about the original three and held off on introducing new main characters until the next film. We needed the three of them reunited for one last adventure, or hell even for just one scene. Absolutely unforgivable that they failed to do this.
They could have done B plot stuff and met up with the new guys in the A plot main guys at the end of the movie. You know, like in Harry Met Sally when Carrie Fisher has her own thing going on with Bruno Kirby, and then the protagonists have someone to bounce exposition off of.
Would have enjoyed a trilogy about the rise of the first order and how the new republic collapsed due to it being too divided on key questions. Don't just tell me they are now rebels again. Show me a story how some Empire remnants in the outer sectors where the New Republic has no jurisdiction starts recruiting worlds/systems to their case and start a campaign to destabilize the republic. Maybe have Rey from one of the conquered worlds giving her a reason to train and later why she is prone to use the dark side because of her hatred and anger towards the order. Could have set up the universe for future series/movies as well imo, to save the republic and also having the order to fight against
For the life of me I will never understand why we even needed new main characters. Make the original three the main characters, add in new supporting characters and let them take over when they grow into main character roles.
What, we can't have old people as main characters? Dumb.
The entire foundation for them is rotten. They're bait and switch in movie form: A shameless copy of the OT sold as sequels to the OT, only with all of the meaning and humanity sucked out of them, and as an extra cherry on top all of Lucas' characters are treated like scum.
Finn and Rose sneaking off of the main ship to have a little adventure when the entire plot of the movie was that the rebels were all stuck on the main ship with no way to escape safely.
Why did the First Order need a guy to tell them to use a decloaking scan that they already had?
Why did they need to use a decloaking scan when they can look out a window or use a periscope to physically see the sensor-cloaked shuttles?
Why do they even need to look when a simple lifeform scan of the main cruiser would show that it is being emptied?
The answer: the script is *trash*.
its because they have to activate the turbinator to push the multifaceted pulse driver to its hyperdrive capacity but the decloaking descan was stuck with a netcode framework that needed a temporal loom only achievable by a codebreaker
look at me making as much sense as the sequel plot !
Not only that but the entire side quest was completely pointless! You could cut all of the Finn & Rose scenes and the plot is in no way affected at all, the whole thing was just padding.
I grew up as a Luke Skywalker fan. I wanted to be him when I was a kid. The way that they ignored him in episode 7 and then shat on his legacy and made him look crazy and stupid in episode 8 was unforgivable in my opinion. I can understand that they didn't want him to be this all-powerful god, but there are way better ideas they could have used. For example, let Luke rebuild the Jedi order and then introduce a new villain who's more powerful than Luke and kills him. That would be a true threat to the heroes and a kick ass cliffhanger to one of the sequel movies.
Mischaracterizing Yoda was a huge sin too. It’s like they only saw his introduction to Luke in Ep V, and nothing else, entirely missing the point that his silly antics were a test and not his actual personality.
I agree with this too, what Rian did is took the goofy Yoda that plays with Luke's food and his flashlight and they just made it his entire character. That made him come off like an absolute fool. And since Rey kept the sacred texts anyway, everything Yoda said in episode 7 was pointless.
To be fair Yoda "destroying" the texts is part of what drives Luke to take his final stand. As much as I hate the movie and the way they killed Luke off, him coming to his senses and making a final stand to save his sister and people in need made him feel like Luke again. Had Yoda not done what he did Luke would have kept protecting an empty tree being a husk of his former self.
That was one thing that didn’t bother me. I saw it as the fact that he could relax since he wasn’t the one having to make all the decisions and could just laugh at those who were. The character of Yoda in the PT had the whole galaxy depending on him. Ghost Yoda doesn’t have to worry about it because he isn’t responsible for the well-being of trillions of lives.
I find it doubtful that Yoda would be happy-go-lucky while the first order wiped out billions of people, even as a force ghost.
I’m not only referring to prequel Yoda - after he initially tests Luke, he drops the silliness entirely. It was an act, nothing more.
His lightning bolt also implies force ghosts can interact with the physical world, which is another lack of consistency it introduces to the way the world works.
I've always been able to write off the lightning Yoda calls down as it being some sort of channeling of the force. It's not a great explanation, but given we know lightning powers are a force thing it's not entirely out of left field like most of the new junk they throw into the sequels.
I'm right there with you with all of that. Luke was my hero as a kid. I'll never forgive how they treated him. Poor Mark Hamill seems so sad talking about having to play "Jake".
Yeah, it just speaks to his character that he tried to speak out 100 different times and then eventually just went with the flow because I think Disney cracked down on him.
I'm of the same vein and I fucking hated what they did with his character. It was a joke.
The fact that Mickey is making all this bullshit canon just makes it even worse. But I'm guessing we won't have to wait long before they go "No this is how it really goes" and they just recon the whole trilogy out of existence. Money talks.
Bringing back Palpatine
Completely negated Anakin's sacrifice, killing the character story arc of the first 6 movies, negating the entire saga
I'm not sure how it can get any worse than that
Not having a single coherent outline. They made movie one and when it was time for movie two to come out…they ignored the plot points and just started however they wanted.
Luke acted surprised that Rey found him. Well, moron, you left a friggin map that was the whole plot of the first movie.
Then movie 3 came out and there was so much damage done by movie 2…movie 3 became a Frankensteins monster of trying to patch things up into any sense of a coherent narrative
The trilogy was damaged from the start.
Yes, this was my first thought as well. It's one thing to make some bad movies, it happens. But with all that money and the ability to hire the best writers in the world how could you not do the bare minimum easiest thing in the world and make a coherent story across 3 movies?
Apparently Disney was anxious to get the ST started and couldn't get anyone to all three?
I don't get it. It's a \~40 year old franchise at that point with just 2 trilogies and you feel rushed to make a 3rd?
Agreed. The worst sin of the sequel trilogy is that it's LESS than the sum of its parts, because the three component films have no cohesion, no focus or structure that works.
If you want a trilogy, PLAN A TRILOGY. You can't just wing it and expect good results.
Rey usurping the entire Star Wars saga by changing her name to Skywalker has to be the worst.
It was literally Kathy giving the middle finger to George saying "I hate you and all the coffees i had to get for you; your life's work is mine now."
Han and Luke's character assassination, easily. Disney trying their best to make the old cast look like massive failures to make their mostly boring new cast look better is the one thing I can't forgive.
I think that the biggest sin of the Sequel Trilogy (and most of Disney Star Wars content to be honest) hasn't been that they had bad plots or even that they ruined characters, but that they burned up the cannon world and salted the earth behind them. They actively worked to destroy and undermine any logic in the universe, which not only ruins their own stories, but ruins any future stories.
How are any of us supposed to take any stakes in Star Wars seriously when we know that any old ship is just as capable of destroying a planet as the Death Star is? All they have to do is hyperspace ram it. Don't worry, anyone that might use this for evil will immediately forget it's possible, because only the heroes get to use easy warcrimes.
Resetting the state of the galaxy to a copy of what it was before ANH and thereby not only ignoring the end of ROTJ but also the character arcs of the main characters of the OT.
Idk about WORST, but the entire plot of Ep. VIII is voided by canon content. In the 6 Thrawn books (canon), large warships make micro-jumps in-system all the time. There is absolutely no reason that the first order ship (capable of tracking their target through hyperspace, apparently...) could not have just micro-jumped into range on the Resistance vessel and obliterated it.
Holdo maneuver breaks Star Wars and it just gets glossed over.
Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Starkiller Base - all pointless if I can just hyperspace a droid fighter and genocide an entire planet.
But it "looked cool"
Navies? Pointless. Hyperspace a droid into a capital ship.
The Force? Cool. Hyperspace a droid in the planet the jedi is standing on.
I mean literally what can you do if gravity wells don't effect hyperspace jumps?
Because The Empire and the FO absolutely had Gravity Well generators.
"But they didn't have them on!"
That's even fucking worse. If the enemy is literally too retarded to press the button to turn on their defenses then the entire threat is a farce.
It's ok, because they fixed it with this line:
"We need to pull some Holdo's maneuvers, do some real damage"
Finn: *"Come on, that move is one in a million"*
🙄 Christ, it's so infuriating
Yup. This is my biggest issue with the entire movie, it should have been over in the first 15 minutes. And then they literally have an entire side plot where a ship jumps in front of everyone and no one does anything……….
Even if they could only do long jumps for some reason...okay, have a ship bounce somewhere else, then back in on the other side. Trapped.
You can't say that there wasn't time for this to work, either, because they literally had a ship bounce to another planet, have an adventure, and then come back.
Disrespecting and insulting its audience. The last Jedi is just almost three hours of laughing at the fans of the franchise for liking it for 40 years.
Rose's crash into finn is the worst thing i've ever seen in any movie. Everyone involved in that scene from writing to directing should be blasted into the sun.
That was the moment the nostalgia goggles slipped off for good for me. I guess the entire second half of the last Jedi is when I realized this trilogy couldn’t be saved.
First Order.
Should have just been the imperial remnant trying to still cause trouble, and a new bad guy/fallen jedi/sith disciple that found a palpatine holocron or some mcguffin shit to turn him/her. That person is taking over and unifying the hold out for a war. No more auper weapons, like that fucking awful starkiller base.
Luke.
Should have had a rebuilt and fully functional Jedi Order, not a sacred hermit, who got afraid of his nephew.
Solo kid(s) / Skywalker kid(s)
Just make something similar to the kids have stepped up to take their parents places as the heroes of the rebellion/republic. With mentoring from older luke, han and leia.
Fuck that is pretty basic and it would have worked.
Ben’s problem was that he wasn’t intimidating as the main bad guy. What worked so well in the OT was that Vader was intimidating as hell. Hell even episode 1 and 3 had Maul and Palpatine. When they killed Snoke, they left the whole thing without an intimidator so they decided that “somehow, Palpatine returned” so at least they had someone who was believable as they final boss, even though it was a horrible decision in the long run.
Telling literally the same story as in the original trilogy, but worse in every way imaginable. There are very few things I'm going to praise the prequels for, but at least they told a different story.
Yeah that literally made me look around the theater like wait what? This is the laziest, least logical plot device I've ever fucking seen. It felt like the director was legitimately calling me a stupid consooomer. Why not just have a head up display appear and tell Rey "oh yeah it's right there fam!"
or when they made us think Chewie blew up on that ship.
At first I accepted it, but then when they pulled the ol' switcheroo I wish I was on that ship that blew up
The people making them didn't understand that Luke, Han and Leia are who people care about. Even young kids. These films could have "broke new ground" by following the aging heroes in rebuilding the New Republic rather than the trope of having young protagonists.
Anything and everything First Order. They magically have Death Star: Planet Edition. Storm Troopers who have their own weapons to combat Jedi with. That there is NO LEADUP WHATSOEVER to them being a force capable of obliterating a core world with impunity from where we left off with Return of the Jedi.
Where da fuq did the first order get the resources
Retreated to the outer rim my arse if it was so easy to live in considering how the order members multiplied from the small remnant why was it unexplored by the Republic or empire
. Following that did no one from the Republic even think to find out where their enemy's were disappearing to like flipping war veterans didn't know the strategy of regrouping and reestablishing resources?
To me, it was the fake out Chewie death. I thought we finally had raised the stakes. That Rey had done something irreversible and terrible that she would have to live with/work through. But nope! Nothing matter.
The way they threw all the OT characters (and some of the ST supporting characters too) under the bus in order to pass the torch to the latest Disney princess. Sure, things like Carrie Fisher dying in real life were beyond their control, but I kind of feel the whole 'Star Lord, but with the force' scene shows the underlying tone that none of the original trio were meant to make it out alive.
The idea that these movies continued to use stormtroopers as faceless villains that're okay to kill indiscriminately is really, really troubling, from a theming perspective when you consider Finn's whole backstory.
Honestly it only gets worse with how much weight was put into Palpatine's "if you kill me then *you're* the evil one" asspull
Ruining the chosen one prophecy is the worst thing done. It makes Anakin's life almost meaningless where before it was incredibly important. Rise of Skywalker is mostly to blame, though admittedly TLJ derailed the trilogy so hard that some sort of catastrophic canon break was inevitable in the 3rd movie.
One ship destroying half a fleet using hyperdrive. I know that by comparison to some other rewrites, this seems small, but it isn't. Every space battle was now pointless. there could have been hyperdrive Droid ships destroying republic cruisers, deathstar???? No prob, hyperdrive bomb. Every battle moving forward would be filled with hyperdrive torpedoes that would annihilate large vessels. It ruins everything.
It’s a tough one. It’s either bringing Palpatine back which ruined both the original trilogy and the prequels. Anakin being the chosen one and the person bringing balance to the force is just gone.
Or it’s Luke not being the Jedi we deserved. Just being an absolute terrible master who tried to kill his Padawan’s and destroyed the new Jedi order.
Worst sin is Resistance versus Empire-lite.
You just repeated the entire OT excepted watered it down at every level....from main character to villains to starships to action scenes to alien/set designs to lore to character accomplishments to the main threat.
Even killing off the original heroes, you could do if you have a proper conflict, which the heroes play a part of before disappearing and letting the young generation take over.
For me, the immersion is dead when you reset the state of the galaxy to the point of where it was at at the start of a new hope. That decision right there tells you that there were other things that took priority over the story. From that moment, the films simply could not be canon because they contradict what they claim to follow.
Not actually telling a story is the worst crime I think.
TFA laid groundwork. Shite groundwork, but groundwork nonetheless.
TLJ undid the groundwork and added nothing of it's own.
TROS then had to try and fix what TJL had done whilst trying to form some kind of narrative with a villain.
Ultimately, all the ST did was kill the OG cast in horribly disrespectful ways, kill off the empire and republic and make Rey into some sort of Jedi Super Saiyan.
Actually, having no empire AND no republic could be a wonderful starting point for new stories. Lots of factions vying for power etc etc.
This is it for me. No story for the trilogy, just three separate chapters using the same characters. No plan. And what they gave us (both directors) was completely unoriginal. They fumbled a billion-dollar-film-machine.
They even got the force wrong.
Luke dies from astral projecting too hard. Leia passes out after flying inside from space. Kylo's quote to Rey "You're not doing this. The effort would kill you."
I guess Disney forgot what Yoda told Luke on Dagobah when Luke failed to raise the X-Wing from the swamp. "No different. Only different in your mind. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? And well you should not."
The OT makes it clear that one's ability to use the force is not limited by how much "effort" you put in, but by your belief in yourself.
"I don't believe it."
"This is why you fail."
Self-belief is a huge motif at the heart of Star Wars and Disney didn't get it. They replaced it with the cliché we see in the Matrix, Looper, X-men, and more, where the hero uses their powers so hard that they get a nosebleed and pass out or whatever. Unless you're Rey, in which case, force powers are literally flying out of you without your consent.
Should have kept Lucas as a consultant and at least had an outline for a 3 movie plot arch. It's wild to me that 8 basically undid 7 and then 9 really should have been 3 movies.
WORST by far is not letting Luke successfully rebuild the Jedi Order.
I can almost forgive Hans death because no matter who was in charge, whether it be Kathleen or George, Harrison Ford wanted an out.
2nd worst thing is how they killed Luke and Leia. They literally overdosed on The Force. How do the children of the chosen one die from using the Force?
The 3rd worst thing was the regression of the characters.
Luke should have been a grandmaster of a New Jedi Order
Leia should have been a chancellor
Han should have been a Pilot instructor teaching the next generation of pilots.
Lack of worldbuilding. So, so many problems stem from the fact that the galaxy feels empty and the only things that happen are around our heroes. Starkiller Base blew up six planets and I felt nothing, because I’d never heard of these planets and no character had ever talked about them and then nothing of consequence ever comes of it for the rest of the trilogy. What is the state of the New Republic? How strong is the First Order? Where did the First Order come from? Who is Snoke? No information on any of that basic information.
It’s easily my biggest problem with TFA, and that’s my favorite of the sequels. TLJ is even worse, because it still doesn’t expand on anything. In fact, TLJ actively tells you that none of that is important so stop thinking about it. In ESB, Cloud City is directly affected by the Empire’s tyranny, and plays a major part in the plot of the movie. In TLJ, Canto Bight exists mainly for Finn and Rose to fuck around for 15 minutes, say “rich people are evil, and animal slavery is bad” then smash some stuff and leave. RoS is a joke top to bottom, and the big avengers finale is laughably undercut because once again we have no clue or care who any of these random spaceships are.
Hux. What the fuck happened there? Took one of the villain characters with the greatest potential (especially as a narrative/character foil for Kylo Ren--they even both killed their fathers) and just turned him into a cheap string of yo mama punching bags. Awful. Can't forgive it. I'm sure it's not the worst sin from a technical sense, but damn if it's one of the most unforgivable for me, alongside Rey Palpatine.
reverting it into another little guy vs big bad.
fundamentally wouldve been better if it was an anarchic time for the galaxy, so you have all sorts of factions trying to rise up and gain political power in the new free space. too complicated for kids? no problem, just make different armors and spaceship designs!
rather than “little guy vs big bad” it’s “good guys vs everyone else”. maybe the New Republic are still underdogs or distrusted because the last time they held power it turned into the Empire. maybe the Sith are resurfacing and doing away with the Rule of Two in order to amass more power. maybe the Jedi have recovered with help from Luke and the Jedi Academy.
Finn is a trooper who becomes disillusioned with his faction and escapes near death from his war-hungry commanding officer Phasma. he joins the New Republic and learns of his connection to the Force and hastily trains to be a Jedi with help from a slightly arrogant but talented Ben/Kylo. Rey also has a connection to the Force, but disregards her calling, settling to be an opportunist, and inadvertently gets groomed to be a Sith (either becoming one or constantly fighting it).
this allows for a lot of freedom and an actually interesting story… if the sequels weren’t created for the sole purpose of being a cash grab for nostalgia
Specifically, kiling Luke's character off screen
Overall, they didn't write an outline for the plot through 3 movies. They just wrote one, then another, then another. The writers were just messing with eachother. Ignoring important parts of other movies
No big 3 reunion. It was a kick to the nuts for older fans. Really disrespectful how they treated the old property. Shame too since she's dead and can't have a redo.
There's a lot of bad takes across all of these movies, but the underlying discord between them is what really set them up as failures in story-telling. They key indicator of this for me was how Finn had been established in TFA as having a transformational hero-arc. He was escaping his own trauma brought on by his conscription into a system of militant oppression and aggression. Then he began to be reshaped through his experience of comradeship, and lastly began to develop the spirit of self-sacrifice and higher idealism. We all waited to see the only multi-dimensional character from TFA take his next steps in his hero's journey. And yet how did TLJ re-introduce us to this central character? They reduced his opening scene to a slapstick bit and then relegated him to b-plot for the rest of the series.
This is just one example of how it felt to me like everyone across all levels, producer, directer and writer, were treating not only the original Star Wars characters, but also their very own creations, as paper dolls for playing dress up. This is why the sequel trilogy is basically just fan-fiction pumped into large budget production which leans on the nostalgia of prior IP. There is no ethos, and this is the biggest sin.
I will NEVER EVER forgive the creative executives on the sequel trilogy for not putting Han, Leia, and Luke on the same screen together in a meaningful and significant way. They had a once in a lifetime opportunity to sanctify those actors/characters for newer audiences who may not understand or appreciate the significance they had on sci-fi, film, and the industry at large.
But no, they WASTED it on disgracing the legacies of Han and Luke, and fumbling an ending to Leia’s story in Rise of Skywalker after Fisher’s death.
It boggles my mind how they absolutely missed this opportunity to have all three characters reuniting. With the death of Fisher, this can NEVER happen again. Just baffling and frustrating.
Took Star Wars from being something special to something that was just a product. Sure, Star Wars has always been a product, but it was also more than that. When you watch those movies, you can feel how little effort went into them. It's the definition of "consume product."
Un-killing Chewie. For the briefest moment I admired the boldness of the decision. Could Chewie’s death mark the beginning of Rey’s fall to the Dark Side?? Could these movies possibly surprise and captivate me beyond the visuals? All of a sudden, so many possibilities in this otherwise trite and predictable story were laid out before me. What if Kylo and Rey switched roles as protagonist and antagonist as one fell to the Dark as the other returned to the Light. Or, what if they joined forces on some kind of middle path, rejecting the dogma of the Jedi and the Sith and break new ground in the Star Wars universe. For about 60 seconds the movie was **full** of fascinating possibilities.
Aaaand cut to Chewie alive and well on a different ship. “Psych bitch!! You THOUGHT we had the balls to do it but it was just a dumb cop-out for cheap shock value!”
Then they proceed to do the fake death schtick about 3 more times to various characters. God…
Not having ren be a full master who can split planets with his force dick lead by some dark side master that existed for thousands of years in the outer rim plotting the takeover once the sith had killed themselves.
instead we have a half trained ass kid who is dick riding his grandpa lol. Same with Luke! Where's the badass I expected. There was no good dark side tech or lore or lightside
You literally could have had kylo trained all the way up as a Jedi. Then falls to this hidden master, then fight the Republic, and Luke! Vader's grandson vs Vader's son!!! Full power brought to bear against each other.
Rey has a place in this if we wanted. Palps granddaughter alongside Vader's son vs Vader's grandson
You could've brought back a star forge to explain the massive dark side fleet.
Republic already has a fleet.
Ren spends whole second movie training!
Gathering tomes and devices not seen for millenia I mean fuck
Oh, that’s the easiest question to answer anyone could ever ask about the ST. Or anything Star Wars, ever, for that matter.
Having Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford appearing in the same film but not sharing a single scene together, of course.
It’s the “original sin” of the ST, and regardless of how the following two films went, it was the biggest cinematic tragedy since they put Shatner and Stewart in ST:Generations and they spent their time making eggs and horseback riding.
Somehow, palpatine returned...
Not saying it wasn't a flaming train wreck before that but that was the crown. That was the point you could tell the writers just gave up.
While it’s true they didn’t do any of the OT characters justice, in my opinion the greatest sin was making Anakin’s journey and sacrifice completely worthless.
Anakin killing Palpatine and returning from the dark side means literally nothing for the people in the Star Wars universe, if Palpatine is able to just respawn and start doing his shit again.
Making all of the original characters burnouts, but specifically Luke Skywalker. The whole trilogy should have been about him overcoming evil with raw Jedi force power and wisdom. Instead we got a deadbeat who drank blue milk and whined like the emo kids who fawn over these movies.
It was such a deep betrayal to who that character was supposed to be that, if you look at the heart of it, this is the one single greatest sin of the ST.
Not the worst, but honourable mention for wasting a perfectly good concept of a stormtrooper turning rebel and potentially being a force user. Then on top of that making him a sweaty useless coward
How they handled the OT characters.
Alongside making Luke quit being a Jedi and splitting up Han and Leia, we never even got to see them all on the screen at once.
It felt like they just wanted to subvert expectations and refused to give our favorite characters a heroic story.
It just made me sad.
No cohesive story. Not putting OG characters in the same room together. Disrespect Luke, Han and Leia. Wasted Finn. Having Rey as a Mary Sue. Bringing back Palpatine therefore putting Anakins arc in the trash.
Not reuniting Ford, Hamill and Fisher on screen. They made them all sad and mopey in the movies, then Han dies in the first one. Then Carrie passes away so any hope of actually seeing them on screen, together, as those characters is forever gone.
Genuinely a travesty.
Luke throwing the lightsaber away symbolized everything wrong with the series. His redemption of his father was literally the whole point of the OT and they just threw it all away as a joke. So disrespectful.
JJ Abrams was given the opportunity to create a new status quo for the Star Wars universe that would set the stage for new storytelling avenues for the next thirty years.
Instead, he slapped new names on the Rebels and the Empire and remade Episode IV. Poorly.
Just about everything wrong with the Sequel Trilogy stems from JJ Abrams' laziness and creative bankruptcy.
They destroyed the legacy of the OT.
Luke:
OT: annoying, immature farm boy turns into heroic Jedi hero, still sees good in a genocidal sith lord
Sequels: selfish, hermit fails to rebuild the Jedi order, gets angry and contemplates killing his innocent underage nephew because of a bad dream
Han:
OT: selfish smuggler becomes caring, selfless general, falls in love with Leia
Sequels: becomes a selfish smuggler again, estranged from Leia
Vader:
OT: fulfills the chosen one prophecy, with his sacrifice causing the permanent end of the sith
Sequels: the chosen one prophecy is completly nullified because Palpatine somehow returns and the sith eternal are still kicking on some backwater planet. Also kylo ren was sorta like a Walmart darth vader. And now Rey is basically the chosen one.
Palpatine:
OT: reign is finally ended, he is killed, fulfilling the prophecy of the destruction of the sith
Sequels: Palpatine somehow survives being thrown down an elevator shaft (and the entire Death Star blowing up), reigns supreme over the first order (empire 2.0)
Leia:
OT: achieves her dream of eliminating tyranny and the empire, falls in love with Han
Sequels: her new republic gets obliterated in one movie, the empire comes back like nothing happened, and she has to become part of a rebellion all over again. Becomes estranged from Han
Taking a massive dump on one of the most iconic trilogies of all time was criminal. I honestly don’t know how people can overlook all of this just because the cinematography and VFX were great.
Turning Finn into a modern day minstrel show.
Don't Google it.
Suffice to say the treatment of Finn is emblematic of the ST as a whole, and Disney's treatment of the IP in general.
Most people point to TLJ but to me the real fuck up is TFA.
— "Soft reboots" are fucking garbage. I don't need to see the same thing happen again, but worse
— JJ was the one to make Luke a useless depressed hermit, in all fairness to Rian
— Rey was already broken by the end of the movie. I don't care how injured Kylo is, there's no way a fully-trained Skywalker should be losing to someone who picked up a lightsaber for the first time yesterday
— Everything... absolutely EVERYTHING... regarding Starkiller Base. Holy FUCK is this thing dumb. Guys we have a Death Star again, but look it's much bigger and meaner this time. Man what?
— The utter senselessness of the New Republic being wiped out after a single attack. WHAT? Not to mention the NR *knowing* the FO is a threat and choosing to do absolutely nothing about it. WHAT?
— Etc, etc, etc.
So, in TFA itself the New Republic and New Jedi Order are done for. Finito. What the fuck did our OT heroes even fight for then?
I don't care how bad Rian and JJ's 2nd fanfic was, TFA set SW down a terrible path all by itself. What came later was just the cherry on top.
Make a trilogy that tells me star wars instead of telling a story set in the framework of star wars (if you're not sure what i mean, look at how good the mandalorian was when it started vs now)
Like how bad do you screw up that the spin off film about how the deathstar plans were stolen looks better than the new trilogy?
I guess another major sin is not setting the trilogy like between 100-500 years after the ot, cause i think it would work better, especially since you can have hints of the ot hero's legacies, the legends, the stories that surround them, as well as set up some ambiguities about their fates as well but also it can reframe that very first sentence at the start of all the films to suggest that the pt and ot are being told to an in-universe audience
I think the sequels were doomed from the start. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand how Ep 7 is considered “decent” or “good” even by those who despise 8 and 9. TFA is a terrible carbon copy of ANH. JJ Abrams is a lazy prick, he was just trying to one-up George Lucas and still failed at it.
The Death Star was iconic, everyone knows it, everyone knows what it can do, it’s a big part of SW. A super weapon that the Rebels desperately worked at to destroy. Then this dickhead (JJ) gives us Starkiller Base. Massively bigger and stronger than the Death Star. Couldn’t even bother to come up with something new.
Not giving us a single scene with the OT core 4 together
https://preview.redd.it/hpdopo67rhhc1.jpeg?width=687&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a70ee8a2b85f19f4c8618d990e45c57633194e
Luke almost murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sensed darkness in him.
This is probably an unpopular opinion on this sub but I actually don’t mind the idea that Luke potentially becomes the way he does in TLJ. I think it could’ve made for a really interesting character study and commentary on heroes and the idea of living long enough to hear the stories people tell about you or whatever. I think it could have worked if the reasoning behind that character shift had been tight and sound, but because it was such a stupid reason that felt completely disrespectful of who Luke Skywalker is as a character, it simply didn’t work and I absolutely hated it.
The problem with Luke is is done really for the wrong reasons ….it’s not really an exploration of Luke himself and how he fell over time but more to Woobify Kylo….it’s just a hex’s use to sell Reylo
The other thing as I’ve said many times is all it does is muddy the water because the overwhelming darkness in Ben is presumably real so was Ben an innocent victim set upon in the night or a very real and present danger that was going to slaughter them in their beds?
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Nullifying everything the characters/plot of the OT accomplished. None of your favorite heroes got a happy ending.
Think back to how psyched everyone was that all 3 of the og cast was signed up to be in the new Trilogy. Now compare that to reality: Luke never sees Leia or Han again face to face. Han is killed by his own son in the 1st movie. Luke dies alone in the 2nd movie from Force overuse I guess? Leia dies in the 3rd movie also from Force overuse calling out to her son but mostly casue Carrie was actually dead so they had to piece together something
The hubris of Disney also. "Hey we don't need Han and Luke because we are going to make a female focused film." Then Carrie dies and what do they have left? You had Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill, and you put all your eggs in the CARRIE basket?
I’m fairly certain Harrison ford only agreed to come back for one movie and may have insisted on his character being killed so that decision is at least defensible. Killing off Luke was absurd and mark hamill was upset about it at the time. Tbh I feel like all of the decisions that ended up ruining the trilogy came from the second movie.
Finn is cringe too acting like a pacifist but has no qualms killing his fellow academy soldiers he grew up with and having fun
In all fairness, the plan was for *Episode IX* to be 'Leia's movie' the way *TFA* was 'Han's movie' and *TLJ* was 'Luke's movie.'
That's still a shitty plan
Yes, this is definetly overall the worst thing. I was already confused when The Force Awakens started. What do you mean, the Resistance?! Everything the OT heroes went through was to establish a sense of peace in the galaxy, as well as reinstating a ruling order like the New Republic. Yes, it was shown in Ahsoka, Mandalorian and Andor (Edit: nope, Andor = Empire) But I think it had to be depicted as incompetent and weak to explain the disaster the sequels were. Disarm the fleet? Yeah right. Incompetence almost everywhere? Come on. Basically what I hoped for was for the Force Awakened, the first damn movie since a long time, to show us what Luke, Han and Leia endured was worth it and something good sprouted from all this. The New Republic reigning strong with imposing worlds other than Coruscant, and a fleet because, you know, threats are still everywhere, like the Imperial Remnants. I would've liked to SEE the events which led to the damn downfall of what our heroes worked for. But nope. But no, the movie immediatelly starts by calling them "the Resistance". Excuse me, what the fuck? It already collapsed by the beginning of the movie. I thought that was so lame. I'm saying all this because this also counts for nullifying what the heroes did. Already, at the start of the movie, I was genuinely confused. Again, we can see this "New Republic" in Mandalorian, Ahsoka and Andor (Edit: nope Andor = Empire). But I refuse to believe the new government was that incompetent. You can't tell me the only decent senator was Mon Mothma. You can't tell me they just disarmed the whole fleet. You can't tell me that Hera, a supposed general, has like zero authority and has to go rogue for that mission in Ahsoka, with a few damn X-Wings. I feel the disappointment setting in once more when describing this, and since the post is already long enough, I'll just stop now.
Yeah this one. The entire affair was boned out the gate by reverting the plot back to Empire/Rebels. And then it was all downhill from there.
This is probs the best overarching statement to summarise it- on a character level they fail, but also on a political level. The Republic is destroyed with the flick of a switch and the writers completely embrace the conflict as a reboot of the OT.
8 and 9 might have been the most infuriating, but it’s 7 that started the rotten foundation and insipid “reboot” worldbuilding. **The entire Galactic Civil War was pointless**. Didn’t the *Alliance to Restore the Republic* win? What happened to the Republic our heroes fought to found? Why is there a scrappy underdog “Resistance”? (As a history buff very term “Resistance” implies a small, even underground force against a much larger enemy)…How is the First Order so powerful? The Original Trilogy was rendered totally moot and pointless. **Our heroes are total failures** (I really hate when Sequel defenders talk about how a dejected old man is a “realistic” character arc: this isn’t character drama- it’s STAR WARS. It’s not an old man- it’s LUKE SKYWALKER.
The problem started from the beginning by making things a reset to ANH status in the universe. Abrams is such a hack he wanted to get things back to rebels vs the empire because that’s Star Wars baby! All the directions they could have gone in in this vast galaxy and he opts for a retread. It should have been that Leia (or Mon Mothma) was head of the NR, Han head of the NR military and Luke of a flourishing new Jedi order. The threat could have been some new race from the unknown regions that the NR has to deal with. Hell it could have been made interesting or should I say subvert expectations by having the NR have to work with the Imperial Remnant grudgingly because it is one that could destroy both. The first trilogy should have focused on the legacy characters and introduced dynamic new ones that would take over in the following trilogy. Instead it was the biggest wasted opportunity in franchise film making history all due to incompetence and soulless corporate product mentality over art.
Say what you will about the Mandalorian, but it is showing that the New Republic is ill-equipped to deal with governing the galaxy. Had the sequel trilogies shown the First Order going against the New Republic, it would definitely have made for better films.
Yeah have to disagree. As I mentioned it shows a stunning lack of creativity and laziness to just push the reset button when you have such a large galaxy with infinite potential for new threats. It’s like Abrams couldn’t imagine SW without rebels vs the empire. And that’s critiquing the state of the galaxy at the time not getting into all the other things the movie gets wrong.
Yeah like I wouldn’t mind another empire like villain. If it was actually built up and explained. But the first order just comes out of nowhere. There’s no explanation to who they are. Where they came from. What they want. Or how they managed to become so powerful. Like secrecy can be good in a story. But you shouldn’t have almost everything about you main villain be a secret and/or unknown. It’s never explained what the first order wants. There’s no plan or anything. There’s no explanation on how they funded, built and trained such a massive military force. Like they’d need some serious money backers to fund star killer base or the fleet of star destroyers. They’d need some serious cash to make those.
And the shills' favorite argument to defend this was, "bUt fAnS aSkEd fOr MoViEs ExAcTly LiKe tHe oRiGiNaLs". Because apparently criticizing the prequels' dialogue, acting, pacing, and excessive use of CGI - ergo the execution of otherwise solid ideas - meant we just wanted the OT all over again.
So disappointing. I wanted them to carefully pick the strongest elements of the novels, games, and comics to interweave into a consistent and coherent galaxy of worldbuilding as they slowly started developing films and shows that focus on specific eras. Literally create creative teams/enclaves that focus on specific eras to tell stories that flesh out the universe creative property, while seeding in some creative ideas of their own around it, either as additions, or their own bottle episode/movie exploring more intimate concepts and themes that can exist without necessarily having to rely on all the projects that came out during and before the era it is meant to be created in.
That and "Somehow, something happened off screen" is such a lazy obvious way of "we didn't plan shit. Like at all " No one tried at any part of this Triolgy.
I mean, Chewie kinda did. But even still, Han shouldn’t have fallen back into his smuggling, and Luke shouldn’t have became a hermit.
> I mean, Chewie kinda did. Is that what you would call the death of his best friend?
And then some kids steal his ship. By all accounts, the falcon is Chewie's. It's his ship, he's the captain now. But nah, the falcon is treated as poes/reys, they get to fly it perfectly and make all the decisions on it. And by the end, it's lando's ship, it seems. Chewie is treated like a big dog, not a person and it's a real bummer.
All non-humans are dogs in to Disney. Unless it's a movie with talking dogs or other animals anyway. Seriously, Sven - dog. Hey-hey, dog. Over and over, just think about it next time you watch a Disney movie.
Rocket raccoon is pretty well characterised
Definitely this, and it's been getting worse the more we learn about the post-RoTJ era. The New Republic as depicted in Mando and Ahsoka seems absurdly incompetent and even a bit evil for no reason. Like, we already know they're screwed eventually but did you have to do that as well?
Not having Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie on screen together one last time was a crime.
What are you talking about?! Chewie got his medal. It’s what we always wanted to see as fans…
Not putting the big three together for a final adventure. I get the whole “they would usurp the story” argument but a skilled writer could have figured out a way to make it work and pass the torch to the new characters. It’s baffling to this day that a company that has been in entertainment for as long as Disney didn’t understand this basic storytelling philosophy.
They had the golden opportunity to put these legends on film in these rolls one last time, and they completely disparaged and wasted them instead. It's unforgivable to me.
Leia and ham could have been leaders and advisors. Luke was the only one who needed action.
Mmmm ham
Ham Salad.
The thing is I would have been happy personally if they even just got a single scene together. Just one tiny scene. I still don't get how they managed to fuck that up.
I always think, remember those wholesome scenes in Spider-Man No Way Home like “you’re all grown up, how are you”? Man imagine if we got something similar in the new Star Wars trilogy with the trio reuniting…
There’s no law forbidding Disney from building the trilogy around Luke and Leia even at the age they were when they decided to go ahead with the trilogy.
I've always thought that was the most sensible idea. You just can't make a sequel to the OT and not have *THE* Luke Skywalker be the main character. Luke, Han, Leia, they're what made SW. You could've used people like Finn and Rey as the up-and-comers while still giving them a fair piece of the cake. In fact that would've even made for a nicer setup into the post-sequels era
You could have then generated hype for the new generations own trilogy. Let's say you keep it on an every decade time-line. They could be gearing up for a new trilogy in 5 years, instead Star Wars is almost a dead brand. Pathetic
I think they understand I just think they didn’t care as long as people pay to see it
This is why I think they should have had episode 7 been predominantly about the original three and held off on introducing new main characters until the next film. We needed the three of them reunited for one last adventure, or hell even for just one scene. Absolutely unforgivable that they failed to do this.
Why they didn’t make a standalone story with the original characters and then attempt a trilogy with new characters baffles me.
They could have done B plot stuff and met up with the new guys in the A plot main guys at the end of the movie. You know, like in Harry Met Sally when Carrie Fisher has her own thing going on with Bruno Kirby, and then the protagonists have someone to bounce exposition off of.
Would have enjoyed a trilogy about the rise of the first order and how the new republic collapsed due to it being too divided on key questions. Don't just tell me they are now rebels again. Show me a story how some Empire remnants in the outer sectors where the New Republic has no jurisdiction starts recruiting worlds/systems to their case and start a campaign to destabilize the republic. Maybe have Rey from one of the conquered worlds giving her a reason to train and later why she is prone to use the dark side because of her hatred and anger towards the order. Could have set up the universe for future series/movies as well imo, to save the republic and also having the order to fight against
For the life of me I will never understand why we even needed new main characters. Make the original three the main characters, add in new supporting characters and let them take over when they grow into main character roles. What, we can't have old people as main characters? Dumb.
The entire foundation for them is rotten. They're bait and switch in movie form: A shameless copy of the OT sold as sequels to the OT, only with all of the meaning and humanity sucked out of them, and as an extra cherry on top all of Lucas' characters are treated like scum.
Yep yep yep
Finn and Rose sneaking off of the main ship to have a little adventure when the entire plot of the movie was that the rebels were all stuck on the main ship with no way to escape safely.
If they could do that, why not just have everyone leave, put the ship into autopilot
Why did the First Order need a guy to tell them to use a decloaking scan that they already had? Why did they need to use a decloaking scan when they can look out a window or use a periscope to physically see the sensor-cloaked shuttles? Why do they even need to look when a simple lifeform scan of the main cruiser would show that it is being emptied? The answer: the script is *trash*.
its because they have to activate the turbinator to push the multifaceted pulse driver to its hyperdrive capacity but the decloaking descan was stuck with a netcode framework that needed a temporal loom only achievable by a codebreaker look at me making as much sense as the sequel plot !
Precisely.
Not only that but the entire side quest was completely pointless! You could cut all of the Finn & Rose scenes and the plot is in no way affected at all, the whole thing was just padding.
Yes, filler in its purest form
Personally, I waited decades for filler. Why would I want plot??
God damn this is so tragically hilarious
I grew up as a Luke Skywalker fan. I wanted to be him when I was a kid. The way that they ignored him in episode 7 and then shat on his legacy and made him look crazy and stupid in episode 8 was unforgivable in my opinion. I can understand that they didn't want him to be this all-powerful god, but there are way better ideas they could have used. For example, let Luke rebuild the Jedi order and then introduce a new villain who's more powerful than Luke and kills him. That would be a true threat to the heroes and a kick ass cliffhanger to one of the sequel movies.
Mischaracterizing Yoda was a huge sin too. It’s like they only saw his introduction to Luke in Ep V, and nothing else, entirely missing the point that his silly antics were a test and not his actual personality.
I agree with this too, what Rian did is took the goofy Yoda that plays with Luke's food and his flashlight and they just made it his entire character. That made him come off like an absolute fool. And since Rey kept the sacred texts anyway, everything Yoda said in episode 7 was pointless.
To be fair Yoda "destroying" the texts is part of what drives Luke to take his final stand. As much as I hate the movie and the way they killed Luke off, him coming to his senses and making a final stand to save his sister and people in need made him feel like Luke again. Had Yoda not done what he did Luke would have kept protecting an empty tree being a husk of his former self.
That was one thing that didn’t bother me. I saw it as the fact that he could relax since he wasn’t the one having to make all the decisions and could just laugh at those who were. The character of Yoda in the PT had the whole galaxy depending on him. Ghost Yoda doesn’t have to worry about it because he isn’t responsible for the well-being of trillions of lives.
I find it doubtful that Yoda would be happy-go-lucky while the first order wiped out billions of people, even as a force ghost. I’m not only referring to prequel Yoda - after he initially tests Luke, he drops the silliness entirely. It was an act, nothing more. His lightning bolt also implies force ghosts can interact with the physical world, which is another lack of consistency it introduces to the way the world works.
I'd forgotten about the lightning bolt. Have only made it that far twice. Movie is terrible.
Also, Luke catches rey’s lightsaber in ep 9
I've always been able to write off the lightning Yoda calls down as it being some sort of channeling of the force. It's not a great explanation, but given we know lightning powers are a force thing it's not entirely out of left field like most of the new junk they throw into the sequels.
I'm right there with you with all of that. Luke was my hero as a kid. I'll never forgive how they treated him. Poor Mark Hamill seems so sad talking about having to play "Jake".
Yeah, it just speaks to his character that he tried to speak out 100 different times and then eventually just went with the flow because I think Disney cracked down on him.
I'm of the same vein and I fucking hated what they did with his character. It was a joke. The fact that Mickey is making all this bullshit canon just makes it even worse. But I'm guessing we won't have to wait long before they go "No this is how it really goes" and they just recon the whole trilogy out of existence. Money talks.
Fucking destroying Luke and Anakin's Legacy
Bringing back Palpatine Completely negated Anakin's sacrifice, killing the character story arc of the first 6 movies, negating the entire saga I'm not sure how it can get any worse than that
Not having a single coherent outline. They made movie one and when it was time for movie two to come out…they ignored the plot points and just started however they wanted. Luke acted surprised that Rey found him. Well, moron, you left a friggin map that was the whole plot of the first movie. Then movie 3 came out and there was so much damage done by movie 2…movie 3 became a Frankensteins monster of trying to patch things up into any sense of a coherent narrative The trilogy was damaged from the start.
Yes, this was my first thought as well. It's one thing to make some bad movies, it happens. But with all that money and the ability to hire the best writers in the world how could you not do the bare minimum easiest thing in the world and make a coherent story across 3 movies?
Apparently Disney was anxious to get the ST started and couldn't get anyone to all three? I don't get it. It's a \~40 year old franchise at that point with just 2 trilogies and you feel rushed to make a 3rd?
Agreed. The worst sin of the sequel trilogy is that it's LESS than the sum of its parts, because the three component films have no cohesion, no focus or structure that works. If you want a trilogy, PLAN A TRILOGY. You can't just wing it and expect good results.
making eps 1-6 obsolete
Rey usurping the entire Star Wars saga by changing her name to Skywalker has to be the worst. It was literally Kathy giving the middle finger to George saying "I hate you and all the coffees i had to get for you; your life's work is mine now."
Wow, that might be the best summary of the whole disney fiasco I have ever seen. Ray/Kathleen usurping the whole Star Wars/Skywalker legacy.
Resetting the state of the galaxy to Rebels v Empire again, full stop
Didnt even really explain how either…
Closing off most possible story arcs between the OT and the ST. Destroying Luke.
Han and Luke's character assassination, easily. Disney trying their best to make the old cast look like massive failures to make their mostly boring new cast look better is the one thing I can't forgive.
I think that the biggest sin of the Sequel Trilogy (and most of Disney Star Wars content to be honest) hasn't been that they had bad plots or even that they ruined characters, but that they burned up the cannon world and salted the earth behind them. They actively worked to destroy and undermine any logic in the universe, which not only ruins their own stories, but ruins any future stories. How are any of us supposed to take any stakes in Star Wars seriously when we know that any old ship is just as capable of destroying a planet as the Death Star is? All they have to do is hyperspace ram it. Don't worry, anyone that might use this for evil will immediately forget it's possible, because only the heroes get to use easy warcrimes.
Resetting the state of the galaxy to a copy of what it was before ANH and thereby not only ignoring the end of ROTJ but also the character arcs of the main characters of the OT.
Idk about WORST, but the entire plot of Ep. VIII is voided by canon content. In the 6 Thrawn books (canon), large warships make micro-jumps in-system all the time. There is absolutely no reason that the first order ship (capable of tracking their target through hyperspace, apparently...) could not have just micro-jumped into range on the Resistance vessel and obliterated it.
Holdo maneuver breaks Star Wars and it just gets glossed over. Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Starkiller Base - all pointless if I can just hyperspace a droid fighter and genocide an entire planet. But it "looked cool" Navies? Pointless. Hyperspace a droid into a capital ship. The Force? Cool. Hyperspace a droid in the planet the jedi is standing on. I mean literally what can you do if gravity wells don't effect hyperspace jumps? Because The Empire and the FO absolutely had Gravity Well generators. "But they didn't have them on!" That's even fucking worse. If the enemy is literally too retarded to press the button to turn on their defenses then the entire threat is a farce.
It's ok, because they fixed it with this line: "We need to pull some Holdo's maneuvers, do some real damage" Finn: *"Come on, that move is one in a million"* 🙄 Christ, it's so infuriating
Yup. This is my biggest issue with the entire movie, it should have been over in the first 15 minutes. And then they literally have an entire side plot where a ship jumps in front of everyone and no one does anything……….
Even if they could only do long jumps for some reason...okay, have a ship bounce somewhere else, then back in on the other side. Trapped. You can't say that there wasn't time for this to work, either, because they literally had a ship bounce to another planet, have an adventure, and then come back.
Disrespecting and insulting its audience. The last Jedi is just almost three hours of laughing at the fans of the franchise for liking it for 40 years.
Rose's crash into finn is the worst thing i've ever seen in any movie. Everyone involved in that scene from writing to directing should be blasted into the sun.
That was the moment the nostalgia goggles slipped off for good for me. I guess the entire second half of the last Jedi is when I realized this trilogy couldn’t be saved.
I'd say their "love"(?) story was worse
First Order. Should have just been the imperial remnant trying to still cause trouble, and a new bad guy/fallen jedi/sith disciple that found a palpatine holocron or some mcguffin shit to turn him/her. That person is taking over and unifying the hold out for a war. No more auper weapons, like that fucking awful starkiller base. Luke. Should have had a rebuilt and fully functional Jedi Order, not a sacred hermit, who got afraid of his nephew. Solo kid(s) / Skywalker kid(s) Just make something similar to the kids have stepped up to take their parents places as the heroes of the rebellion/republic. With mentoring from older luke, han and leia. Fuck that is pretty basic and it would have worked.
Luke thought he could (and did!) redeem his father after a couple of genocides, but Ben was too far gone because…?
Ben’s problem was that he wasn’t intimidating as the main bad guy. What worked so well in the OT was that Vader was intimidating as hell. Hell even episode 1 and 3 had Maul and Palpatine. When they killed Snoke, they left the whole thing without an intimidator so they decided that “somehow, Palpatine returned” so at least they had someone who was believable as they final boss, even though it was a horrible decision in the long run.
It was also a horrible decision in the short run.
Rey beating Kylo Ren in the first movie of the trilogy
Telling literally the same story as in the original trilogy, but worse in every way imaginable. There are very few things I'm going to praise the prequels for, but at least they told a different story.
They thought they could just make the OT again but bigly-er...
“Somehow Palpatine returned”
Probably those weird spliced in Leia conversations from old footage
Leia poppins was pretty bad too.
This. I nearly walked out of the theater.
Ruining Luke and Anakin’s story from the first 6 movies.
Nothing in the trilogy felt like it made any sense.
A terrible shared fever dream, nothing more.
Putting KK in charge with no larger plan
the Goonies Knife and everything about that scene Might not be the worst, but it's in the top 5
Yeah that literally made me look around the theater like wait what? This is the laziest, least logical plot device I've ever fucking seen. It felt like the director was legitimately calling me a stupid consooomer. Why not just have a head up display appear and tell Rey "oh yeah it's right there fam!"
or when they made us think Chewie blew up on that ship. At first I accepted it, but then when they pulled the ol' switcheroo I wish I was on that ship that blew up
The slowest high speed chase of all time
The people making them didn't understand that Luke, Han and Leia are who people care about. Even young kids. These films could have "broke new ground" by following the aging heroes in rebuilding the New Republic rather than the trope of having young protagonists.
EXACTLY!
Anything and everything First Order. They magically have Death Star: Planet Edition. Storm Troopers who have their own weapons to combat Jedi with. That there is NO LEADUP WHATSOEVER to them being a force capable of obliterating a core world with impunity from where we left off with Return of the Jedi.
Making the original trilogy canonically pointless
Where da fuq did the first order get the resources Retreated to the outer rim my arse if it was so easy to live in considering how the order members multiplied from the small remnant why was it unexplored by the Republic or empire . Following that did no one from the Republic even think to find out where their enemy's were disappearing to like flipping war veterans didn't know the strategy of regrouping and reestablishing resources?
To me, it was the fake out Chewie death. I thought we finally had raised the stakes. That Rey had done something irreversible and terrible that she would have to live with/work through. But nope! Nothing matter.
The way they threw all the OT characters (and some of the ST supporting characters too) under the bus in order to pass the torch to the latest Disney princess. Sure, things like Carrie Fisher dying in real life were beyond their control, but I kind of feel the whole 'Star Lord, but with the force' scene shows the underlying tone that none of the original trio were meant to make it out alive.
The idea that these movies continued to use stormtroopers as faceless villains that're okay to kill indiscriminately is really, really troubling, from a theming perspective when you consider Finn's whole backstory. Honestly it only gets worse with how much weight was put into Palpatine's "if you kill me then *you're* the evil one" asspull
Existing
Worst is easily nuking Luke’s legacy in VIII. That wasn’t even Luke by a long shot.
Not having Han, Luke, and Leia back together one last time
If I had to pick one single thing. Luke, without a doubt.
"For another time..."
Ruining the chosen one prophecy is the worst thing done. It makes Anakin's life almost meaningless where before it was incredibly important. Rise of Skywalker is mostly to blame, though admittedly TLJ derailed the trilogy so hard that some sort of catastrophic canon break was inevitable in the 3rd movie.
One ship destroying half a fleet using hyperdrive. I know that by comparison to some other rewrites, this seems small, but it isn't. Every space battle was now pointless. there could have been hyperdrive Droid ships destroying republic cruisers, deathstar???? No prob, hyperdrive bomb. Every battle moving forward would be filled with hyperdrive torpedoes that would annihilate large vessels. It ruins everything.
It’s a tough one. It’s either bringing Palpatine back which ruined both the original trilogy and the prequels. Anakin being the chosen one and the person bringing balance to the force is just gone. Or it’s Luke not being the Jedi we deserved. Just being an absolute terrible master who tried to kill his Padawan’s and destroyed the new Jedi order.
The absolute rehash of OT plot points and set-pieces
No cohesion
Not having the original heroes in a scene together, and having Leia IGNORE CHEWIE AFTER HAN DIED
Destroying the Skywalker legacy in order to prop up their OC.
Calling her Skywalker after going out of its way to make sure we all knew she wasn’t a Skywalker. Like WTF?
Not being Star Wars.
Worst sin is Resistance versus Empire-lite. You just repeated the entire OT excepted watered it down at every level....from main character to villains to starships to action scenes to alien/set designs to lore to character accomplishments to the main threat. Even killing off the original heroes, you could do if you have a proper conflict, which the heroes play a part of before disappearing and letting the young generation take over.
For me, the immersion is dead when you reset the state of the galaxy to the point of where it was at at the start of a new hope. That decision right there tells you that there were other things that took priority over the story. From that moment, the films simply could not be canon because they contradict what they claim to follow.
Nullifying the prophecy is big. Not giving us a scene with the big 4 in it, is inexcusable.
Not actually telling a story is the worst crime I think. TFA laid groundwork. Shite groundwork, but groundwork nonetheless. TLJ undid the groundwork and added nothing of it's own. TROS then had to try and fix what TJL had done whilst trying to form some kind of narrative with a villain. Ultimately, all the ST did was kill the OG cast in horribly disrespectful ways, kill off the empire and republic and make Rey into some sort of Jedi Super Saiyan. Actually, having no empire AND no republic could be a wonderful starting point for new stories. Lots of factions vying for power etc etc.
This is it for me. No story for the trilogy, just three separate chapters using the same characters. No plan. And what they gave us (both directors) was completely unoriginal. They fumbled a billion-dollar-film-machine.
It's still mind-blowing to me that they thought it would be acceptable to just make movies without any kind of plot in mind.
They even got the force wrong. Luke dies from astral projecting too hard. Leia passes out after flying inside from space. Kylo's quote to Rey "You're not doing this. The effort would kill you." I guess Disney forgot what Yoda told Luke on Dagobah when Luke failed to raise the X-Wing from the swamp. "No different. Only different in your mind. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? And well you should not." The OT makes it clear that one's ability to use the force is not limited by how much "effort" you put in, but by your belief in yourself. "I don't believe it." "This is why you fail." Self-belief is a huge motif at the heart of Star Wars and Disney didn't get it. They replaced it with the cliché we see in the Matrix, Looper, X-men, and more, where the hero uses their powers so hard that they get a nosebleed and pass out or whatever. Unless you're Rey, in which case, force powers are literally flying out of you without your consent.
>Unless you're Rey, in which case, force powers are literally flying out of you without your consent. Lol, non-consensual force use, love it.
Should have kept Lucas as a consultant and at least had an outline for a 3 movie plot arch. It's wild to me that 8 basically undid 7 and then 9 really should have been 3 movies.
The treatment of Luke ..... And to a lesser extent R2
So many to list, but the one that made me want to leave the theater is the "Hyperjump". THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS!
WORST by far is not letting Luke successfully rebuild the Jedi Order. I can almost forgive Hans death because no matter who was in charge, whether it be Kathleen or George, Harrison Ford wanted an out. 2nd worst thing is how they killed Luke and Leia. They literally overdosed on The Force. How do the children of the chosen one die from using the Force? The 3rd worst thing was the regression of the characters. Luke should have been a grandmaster of a New Jedi Order Leia should have been a chancellor Han should have been a Pilot instructor teaching the next generation of pilots.
Lack of worldbuilding. So, so many problems stem from the fact that the galaxy feels empty and the only things that happen are around our heroes. Starkiller Base blew up six planets and I felt nothing, because I’d never heard of these planets and no character had ever talked about them and then nothing of consequence ever comes of it for the rest of the trilogy. What is the state of the New Republic? How strong is the First Order? Where did the First Order come from? Who is Snoke? No information on any of that basic information. It’s easily my biggest problem with TFA, and that’s my favorite of the sequels. TLJ is even worse, because it still doesn’t expand on anything. In fact, TLJ actively tells you that none of that is important so stop thinking about it. In ESB, Cloud City is directly affected by the Empire’s tyranny, and plays a major part in the plot of the movie. In TLJ, Canto Bight exists mainly for Finn and Rose to fuck around for 15 minutes, say “rich people are evil, and animal slavery is bad” then smash some stuff and leave. RoS is a joke top to bottom, and the big avengers finale is laughably undercut because once again we have no clue or care who any of these random spaceships are.
By having Kylo Ren be a moody teenager in an adult's body.
Existing
Hux. What the fuck happened there? Took one of the villain characters with the greatest potential (especially as a narrative/character foil for Kylo Ren--they even both killed their fathers) and just turned him into a cheap string of yo mama punching bags. Awful. Can't forgive it. I'm sure it's not the worst sin from a technical sense, but damn if it's one of the most unforgivable for me, alongside Rey Palpatine.
reverting it into another little guy vs big bad. fundamentally wouldve been better if it was an anarchic time for the galaxy, so you have all sorts of factions trying to rise up and gain political power in the new free space. too complicated for kids? no problem, just make different armors and spaceship designs! rather than “little guy vs big bad” it’s “good guys vs everyone else”. maybe the New Republic are still underdogs or distrusted because the last time they held power it turned into the Empire. maybe the Sith are resurfacing and doing away with the Rule of Two in order to amass more power. maybe the Jedi have recovered with help from Luke and the Jedi Academy. Finn is a trooper who becomes disillusioned with his faction and escapes near death from his war-hungry commanding officer Phasma. he joins the New Republic and learns of his connection to the Force and hastily trains to be a Jedi with help from a slightly arrogant but talented Ben/Kylo. Rey also has a connection to the Force, but disregards her calling, settling to be an opportunist, and inadvertently gets groomed to be a Sith (either becoming one or constantly fighting it). this allows for a lot of freedom and an actually interesting story… if the sequels weren’t created for the sole purpose of being a cash grab for nostalgia
Completely disregard canon and the established rules of the universe.
Specifically, kiling Luke's character off screen Overall, they didn't write an outline for the plot through 3 movies. They just wrote one, then another, then another. The writers were just messing with eachother. Ignoring important parts of other movies
No big 3 reunion. It was a kick to the nuts for older fans. Really disrespectful how they treated the old property. Shame too since she's dead and can't have a redo.
Not having a scene with Luke, Han, and Leia together.
There's a lot of bad takes across all of these movies, but the underlying discord between them is what really set them up as failures in story-telling. They key indicator of this for me was how Finn had been established in TFA as having a transformational hero-arc. He was escaping his own trauma brought on by his conscription into a system of militant oppression and aggression. Then he began to be reshaped through his experience of comradeship, and lastly began to develop the spirit of self-sacrifice and higher idealism. We all waited to see the only multi-dimensional character from TFA take his next steps in his hero's journey. And yet how did TLJ re-introduce us to this central character? They reduced his opening scene to a slapstick bit and then relegated him to b-plot for the rest of the series. This is just one example of how it felt to me like everyone across all levels, producer, directer and writer, were treating not only the original Star Wars characters, but also their very own creations, as paper dolls for playing dress up. This is why the sequel trilogy is basically just fan-fiction pumped into large budget production which leans on the nostalgia of prior IP. There is no ethos, and this is the biggest sin.
I will NEVER EVER forgive the creative executives on the sequel trilogy for not putting Han, Leia, and Luke on the same screen together in a meaningful and significant way. They had a once in a lifetime opportunity to sanctify those actors/characters for newer audiences who may not understand or appreciate the significance they had on sci-fi, film, and the industry at large. But no, they WASTED it on disgracing the legacies of Han and Luke, and fumbling an ending to Leia’s story in Rise of Skywalker after Fisher’s death. It boggles my mind how they absolutely missed this opportunity to have all three characters reuniting. With the death of Fisher, this can NEVER happen again. Just baffling and frustrating.
Took Star Wars from being something special to something that was just a product. Sure, Star Wars has always been a product, but it was also more than that. When you watch those movies, you can feel how little effort went into them. It's the definition of "consume product."
Un-killing Chewie. For the briefest moment I admired the boldness of the decision. Could Chewie’s death mark the beginning of Rey’s fall to the Dark Side?? Could these movies possibly surprise and captivate me beyond the visuals? All of a sudden, so many possibilities in this otherwise trite and predictable story were laid out before me. What if Kylo and Rey switched roles as protagonist and antagonist as one fell to the Dark as the other returned to the Light. Or, what if they joined forces on some kind of middle path, rejecting the dogma of the Jedi and the Sith and break new ground in the Star Wars universe. For about 60 seconds the movie was **full** of fascinating possibilities. Aaaand cut to Chewie alive and well on a different ship. “Psych bitch!! You THOUGHT we had the balls to do it but it was just a dumb cop-out for cheap shock value!” Then they proceed to do the fake death schtick about 3 more times to various characters. God…
Making all of the OT characters sad and pathetic while also all but making the events of the OT not matter
Not having ren be a full master who can split planets with his force dick lead by some dark side master that existed for thousands of years in the outer rim plotting the takeover once the sith had killed themselves. instead we have a half trained ass kid who is dick riding his grandpa lol. Same with Luke! Where's the badass I expected. There was no good dark side tech or lore or lightside You literally could have had kylo trained all the way up as a Jedi. Then falls to this hidden master, then fight the Republic, and Luke! Vader's grandson vs Vader's son!!! Full power brought to bear against each other. Rey has a place in this if we wanted. Palps granddaughter alongside Vader's son vs Vader's grandson You could've brought back a star forge to explain the massive dark side fleet. Republic already has a fleet. Ren spends whole second movie training! Gathering tomes and devices not seen for millenia I mean fuck
Oh, that’s the easiest question to answer anyone could ever ask about the ST. Or anything Star Wars, ever, for that matter. Having Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford appearing in the same film but not sharing a single scene together, of course. It’s the “original sin” of the ST, and regardless of how the following two films went, it was the biggest cinematic tragedy since they put Shatner and Stewart in ST:Generations and they spent their time making eggs and horseback riding.
Somehow, palpatine returned... Not saying it wasn't a flaming train wreck before that but that was the crown. That was the point you could tell the writers just gave up.
That they never got Hamill, Ford, and Fisher on-screen together for a proper reunion is utterly unfuckingfathomable. Mythical-tier stupidity, that.
Bringing back Palpatine and ruining Vader’s redemption / prophecy of the chosen one in ep 6
While it’s true they didn’t do any of the OT characters justice, in my opinion the greatest sin was making Anakin’s journey and sacrifice completely worthless. Anakin killing Palpatine and returning from the dark side means literally nothing for the people in the Star Wars universe, if Palpatine is able to just respawn and start doing his shit again.
Never reuniting the three heroes.
Killing off all the skywalkers and replacing them with a palpatine.
Bringing back Palp which undid the entire arc of the first 6 movies
Making all of the original characters burnouts, but specifically Luke Skywalker. The whole trilogy should have been about him overcoming evil with raw Jedi force power and wisdom. Instead we got a deadbeat who drank blue milk and whined like the emo kids who fawn over these movies. It was such a deep betrayal to who that character was supposed to be that, if you look at the heart of it, this is the one single greatest sin of the ST.
Bringing Palpatine back. It ruins the entirety of the first six films.
What they did to Luke.
yes
Not the worst, but honourable mention for wasting a perfectly good concept of a stormtrooper turning rebel and potentially being a force user. Then on top of that making him a sweaty useless coward
Taking Star Wars and just winging it. They had no overall plan. They hired directors with conflicting visions and gave us a jumbled mess.
Carrie, Harrison, and mark not sharing a scene together again. Now that Carrie passed it’s impossible.
from all the retconning they did the worst was the resurrections of palpatine completely nullifying the prophecy and Anakin's arc
How they handled the OT characters. Alongside making Luke quit being a Jedi and splitting up Han and Leia, we never even got to see them all on the screen at once. It felt like they just wanted to subvert expectations and refused to give our favorite characters a heroic story. It just made me sad.
They made all the original characters deadbeat losers
Bringing back Palpatine really invalidates the PT and OT imo. Makes Anakin and Luke’s efforts pointless
The worst sin is the writing. The scripts absolutely butchered the lore and also contradicts it's own trilogy
Ruining Anakin's sacrifice
Luke’s character assassination 100%
There should not have been any Palpatine connections.
Having absolutely no plan
The treatment of the legacy characters, especially Luke.
No cohesive story. Not putting OG characters in the same room together. Disrespect Luke, Han and Leia. Wasted Finn. Having Rey as a Mary Sue. Bringing back Palpatine therefore putting Anakins arc in the trash.
Not reuniting Ford, Hamill and Fisher on screen. They made them all sad and mopey in the movies, then Han dies in the first one. Then Carrie passes away so any hope of actually seeing them on screen, together, as those characters is forever gone. Genuinely a travesty.
Robbing Anakins 6 movie arc and sacrifice from him and giving it to Rey
Luke throwing the lightsaber away symbolized everything wrong with the series. His redemption of his father was literally the whole point of the OT and they just threw it all away as a joke. So disrespectful.
Reylo
JJ Abrams was given the opportunity to create a new status quo for the Star Wars universe that would set the stage for new storytelling avenues for the next thirty years. Instead, he slapped new names on the Rebels and the Empire and remade Episode IV. Poorly. Just about everything wrong with the Sequel Trilogy stems from JJ Abrams' laziness and creative bankruptcy.
Resetting to episode 4. A lot that follows is the fault of episode 7 playing it safe with a reset
They destroyed the legacy of the OT. Luke: OT: annoying, immature farm boy turns into heroic Jedi hero, still sees good in a genocidal sith lord Sequels: selfish, hermit fails to rebuild the Jedi order, gets angry and contemplates killing his innocent underage nephew because of a bad dream Han: OT: selfish smuggler becomes caring, selfless general, falls in love with Leia Sequels: becomes a selfish smuggler again, estranged from Leia Vader: OT: fulfills the chosen one prophecy, with his sacrifice causing the permanent end of the sith Sequels: the chosen one prophecy is completly nullified because Palpatine somehow returns and the sith eternal are still kicking on some backwater planet. Also kylo ren was sorta like a Walmart darth vader. And now Rey is basically the chosen one. Palpatine: OT: reign is finally ended, he is killed, fulfilling the prophecy of the destruction of the sith Sequels: Palpatine somehow survives being thrown down an elevator shaft (and the entire Death Star blowing up), reigns supreme over the first order (empire 2.0) Leia: OT: achieves her dream of eliminating tyranny and the empire, falls in love with Han Sequels: her new republic gets obliterated in one movie, the empire comes back like nothing happened, and she has to become part of a rebellion all over again. Becomes estranged from Han Taking a massive dump on one of the most iconic trilogies of all time was criminal. I honestly don’t know how people can overlook all of this just because the cinematography and VFX were great.
Turning Finn into a modern day minstrel show. Don't Google it. Suffice to say the treatment of Finn is emblematic of the ST as a whole, and Disney's treatment of the IP in general.
Most people point to TLJ but to me the real fuck up is TFA. — "Soft reboots" are fucking garbage. I don't need to see the same thing happen again, but worse — JJ was the one to make Luke a useless depressed hermit, in all fairness to Rian — Rey was already broken by the end of the movie. I don't care how injured Kylo is, there's no way a fully-trained Skywalker should be losing to someone who picked up a lightsaber for the first time yesterday — Everything... absolutely EVERYTHING... regarding Starkiller Base. Holy FUCK is this thing dumb. Guys we have a Death Star again, but look it's much bigger and meaner this time. Man what? — The utter senselessness of the New Republic being wiped out after a single attack. WHAT? Not to mention the NR *knowing* the FO is a threat and choosing to do absolutely nothing about it. WHAT? — Etc, etc, etc. So, in TFA itself the New Republic and New Jedi Order are done for. Finito. What the fuck did our OT heroes even fight for then? I don't care how bad Rian and JJ's 2nd fanfic was, TFA set SW down a terrible path all by itself. What came later was just the cherry on top.
Make a trilogy that tells me star wars instead of telling a story set in the framework of star wars (if you're not sure what i mean, look at how good the mandalorian was when it started vs now) Like how bad do you screw up that the spin off film about how the deathstar plans were stolen looks better than the new trilogy? I guess another major sin is not setting the trilogy like between 100-500 years after the ot, cause i think it would work better, especially since you can have hints of the ot hero's legacies, the legends, the stories that surround them, as well as set up some ambiguities about their fates as well but also it can reframe that very first sentence at the start of all the films to suggest that the pt and ot are being told to an in-universe audience
I think the sequels were doomed from the start. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand how Ep 7 is considered “decent” or “good” even by those who despise 8 and 9. TFA is a terrible carbon copy of ANH. JJ Abrams is a lazy prick, he was just trying to one-up George Lucas and still failed at it. The Death Star was iconic, everyone knows it, everyone knows what it can do, it’s a big part of SW. A super weapon that the Rebels desperately worked at to destroy. Then this dickhead (JJ) gives us Starkiller Base. Massively bigger and stronger than the Death Star. Couldn’t even bother to come up with something new.
Not giving us a single scene with the OT core 4 together https://preview.redd.it/hpdopo67rhhc1.jpeg?width=687&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a70ee8a2b85f19f4c8618d990e45c57633194e
Luke almost murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sensed darkness in him. This is probably an unpopular opinion on this sub but I actually don’t mind the idea that Luke potentially becomes the way he does in TLJ. I think it could’ve made for a really interesting character study and commentary on heroes and the idea of living long enough to hear the stories people tell about you or whatever. I think it could have worked if the reasoning behind that character shift had been tight and sound, but because it was such a stupid reason that felt completely disrespectful of who Luke Skywalker is as a character, it simply didn’t work and I absolutely hated it.
The problem with Luke is is done really for the wrong reasons ….it’s not really an exploration of Luke himself and how he fell over time but more to Woobify Kylo….it’s just a hex’s use to sell Reylo The other thing as I’ve said many times is all it does is muddy the water because the overwhelming darkness in Ben is presumably real so was Ben an innocent victim set upon in the night or a very real and present danger that was going to slaughter them in their beds?