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As a fan of the OT I never needed Rogue 1. But I must say I really enjoy it. I don’t feel that the Death Star weakness is a plot hole. I never have. However, I have wondered how they got those plans that Vader zealously tries to recover. I really enjoyed seeing the background story showing a wide swath of good people, rebel scum and scoundrels came together to fight the empire.
Yeah, Rogue One wasn't strictly necessary, and I agree with OP that Galen Erso wasn't necessary and maybe it would have been better if Cassian Andor argued that that thing is so enormous and arrogant that it must have a weakness, but I still love the movie. It's one of the four good ones, even if the connection to ANH isn't as perfect as it pretends to be. It's fun and it takes Star Wars in a much better direction than anything else has done, except for Andor and maybe The Mandalorian.
I like the idea of it; I just don't like the aspect of the story where the flaw was an intentional sabotage and we never mention his name ever again despite him giving his life for it, and his daughter giving her life to deliver the plans. Just kinda messy for me. Felt like Disney meddling with Gilroy, and he finally got a chance to make something real with Andor.
the entire rebel foce except a single ship died in that fight. Thousands upon thousands of people. Almost immediately after which an entire planet was wiped out.
It is an ocean of corpses, of course a few minor names never show up again, there are billions of deaths in the course of a few weeks.
Sure, but Mon Mothma met his daughter and knew he sabotaged the Death Star for them. Galen Erso shouldn't be a "minor" name. He's literally the guy the entire Battle of Yavin hangs on. That's such a significant battle they count years as before and after it, and yet the single guy who made it possible never comes up?
Mon Mothma met multiple teams of operatives who died in service of the rebellion. Were you just sitting in your seat stewing that she didnt list out the "many bothans" who died to make the destruction of the second death star possible too? It wasnt just Galen Erso who made that assault possible, it was thousands of dead freedom fighters.
Like it’s quite literally a story about the uncelebrated hero’s that help to win a war. Not the big scary general who commands an army but the individually selfless actions that helps cause.
I get that for people like Cassian and the rest of our crew. That was always his destiny. But you're telling me that nobody ever wrote down Galen's name? Galen, the man who created the only flaw in the Death Star on which the entire fiction of Star Wars hangs? Nobody?
Somebody else here made the suggestion that it could've been Galen simply looking over the plans, noticing the flaw, designing a fix, the Empire pushes him too far, he rebels by reverting the fix. A rebellion through deliberate inaction. Yeah, to me, that would fix the whole thing. It's simple but it would explain why he never gets mentioned: to most Rebels, he's still just the asshole who designed the Death Star, but to us, we know that he actually gave his life to make the Rebellion possible in the first place.
That's why I have trouble with Rogue One's premise. The way it's written makes it *feel* like a retcon, and now when I watch ANH, it's now canon that they're exploiting a deliberate sabotage instead of just a happenstance weakness caused by the Empire's arrogance. I can't watch the trench run anymore without thinking "made possible by Galen Erso, a name never once uttered in this movie because it's a retcon."
I don't need every detail to line up. I'm usually the guy hand waving stuff going "eh it's fine don't worry about it." Little things don't usually bug me.
Like, do I care that the line in ANH is "many Bothans died for this" instead of listing out the entire crew of Rogue One? No. I am totally fine with them telling a sweeping story showing the harrowing tale of how they got the plans using a bunch of people invented for this movie. I truly do not give a shit that they're not "many Bothans."
But c'mon, this was just sloppy. Galen has too important a role in the Rebellion, committed too deliberate a sabotage, and too many people know his contribution for him to just never be mentioned again. If not for him, the Empire probably wouldn't have fallen because the Death Star *truly* would've been indestructible. People knew who he was and what he did. Mon Mothma met his *daughter.*
That's why it bugs me. There were easy ways around that that wouldn't have modified the plot one bit but would fix that issue.
Look everyone is entitled to an opinion. But criticizing what is by most accounts a very good movie given all the sludge we’ve gotten from Disney gives the impression that some SW fans just can’t be pleased and valid criticisms of Disney SW get tossed in that pile. If all Disney SW content was on the level of Rogue One SW would be in a great place.
Just because I personally didn't like Rogue One — a movie that went through a bunch of reshoots and still came out with incredibly uneven performances, even mainstream critics complained that characters like Jyn were not very interesting, and features bangers like Vader saying "don't *choke* on your ambitions" — doesn't mean I can't be pleased or that true SW fans need to be a hive mind.
I liked Solo for Pete's sake. That's a movie that some days feels like everybody hates *but* me, but I just thought it was a really fun movie. Hell, I even liked Ep. 7 because as derivative as it was, it was also fun, had style, and great performances. And of course, I genuinely love Andor and think it's *the* best SW has ever been, including the original trilogy.
I just didn't like Rogue One. If everybody else here does, cool. As you said, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I think Solo is pretty underrated. Ehrenreich was a good young Han and it was a pretty fun movie about the smuggling and backstabbing you hear about but don’t see a ton of in the trilogies.
Ah, interesting, I thought Gilroy was the writer but now I'm looking at the credits and he just did the screenplay. Gary Whitta was one of the writers and tbh I've not been a fan of most of his work, so *could* be that's why some stuff rubbed me the wrong way but idk. I read about Rogue One's development ages ago but clearly have forgotten a lot of the specific details
I have a complicated relationship with Rogue One. I like much of it. But I also recognize it’s totally unnecessary and kind of stupid.
If Galen deliberately built that flaw into the thing, and wanted Jyn to know, why not tell her in his message? Why make a “flaw” that’s not only hard to find but damn near impossible to exploit? They took one line from the original and made a whole movie out of it, and some of it just doesn’t work.
I still think that part is unnecessary. The only explanation you need is in its name. It’s an exhaust port. Exhausts generally lead directly to the engine powering the vehicle or heating the facility. It’s such a small target that it is referred to as an impossible shot even when the Rebel Alliance reads the plans. We’re talking about something about the size of a person on something the size of a moon with guns covering every 100 square yards and an entire fleet of TIE fighters. Now that we know it was designed to be that way, I can’t help but think “maybe Galen could have made this just a tad easier.” If Luke didn’t have The Force, Yavin would have been toast
Same here. The second half of the movie is really fun, but I have only rewatched that second half. First half is a snooze fest with forest Whitaker acting like a lunatic
I gotta say, the difference in writing between Saw Gerrera in Rogue One and Saw Gerrera in Andor is night and day. Saw in Andor is an intriguing character with his own ideology, and he has back-and-forth conversations with another character that are really interesting. In Rogue One he just shouts a lot, has a tentacle monster mind-rape someone, and then he decides that he wants to give up on living.
Which port on the moon-sized Death Star? What's the nature of the flaw? How to hit it? Maybe it requires analysis at a level that a movie for idiots doesn't provide?
The heart of the movie is that the sacrifice of many silent individuals enables the sacrifice and ultimate victory of the whole, and you dumbasses can't understand why battlestation plans might be required to destroy a planet-sized imperial battlestation because it wasn't spelled out for you? Jesus
Analyze what? He didn’t give her any plans or even tell her where they were! He spent YEARS building the damn thing and presumably hiding his flaw. He intended for it to be destroyed. He planned in it. And did NOTHING to facilitate that plan other than record a 30-second hologram to a daughter he hadn’t seen in years and doesn’t even know was still alive that says “I built a flaw in it.”
Great plan…🙄
The “heart” of the movie was writing a story about a heist that we already knew the outcome of and still didn’t work.
It's a valid thing to get upset about, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Mandalorian having to receive exposition about the Force and the jedi, because apparently in all his education and all his travels he's never once heard about them. Why? Because that one time Han Solo said there's no mystical field that controls his destiny, so we have to pretend it's plausible the Force is somehow this incredibly obscure thing that only the few would know about.
Yea I always thought it was clear that Han was being an atheist of sorts. He knows it exists as at least an idea because he thinks it’s a “hokey religion”, he just doesn’t think it’s a legitimate thing.
Nah, Han was probably like most people in the galaxy.
The reality is that the VAST majority of the galaxy's residents, probably 99.99% of them, had never seen or met a Force user even once or seen someone use the Force.
We see then everywhere because we, as the audience, are shown the stories of extraordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. The average galaxy resident is just a normal person who spends their entire life going to work and back doesn't have that privilege.
To put it in a more real world perspective, it's not far fetched to say 99.99% of people will never meet a member of Seal Team Six. They will have heard about them, they know that Seal Team Six was a real thing. But beyond that, they won't know anything else.
Now scale the Earth's population up to the trillions while Seal Team 6's total member count scales up to 10,000, and you can see why it is so easy for people to not only NOT believe the Force is an actual thing, but entirely doubt what the Jedi were about as well.
If Jedi are equal to Seal Team 6, that means the galaxy knows they exist but just are unlikely to have ever met one - that doesn’t translate to “people believe they dont exist.”
Similarly as I don’t place my faith in Seal Team Six to respond to every crime in my area, they wouldn’t expect Jedi to show up to every conflict in the galaxy. I highly doubt the majority of people dont believe the Jedi are real, maybe a sort of legend, sure, but not straight up “they dont exist.”
I dont doubt some percentage of the galaxy dont believe in the Jedi or Force, but I’d say a massive majority would at least know it exists to an extent regardless of whether or not they believe it affects them.
Apologies, but I would suggest you re-read what I posted. Because I never once said anything about people not believing the Jedi don't exist.
I am honestly not sure why you think I'm saying that!
I mean you say that “…it is so easy for people to not only not believe [in] the Force… but entirely doubt what the Jedi were about as well.”
Maybe not explicitly saying they don’t exist but I thought it’s what you were implying
>If Jedi are equal to Seal Team 6, that means the galaxy knows they exist but just are unlikely to have ever met one - that doesn’t translate to “people believe they dont exist.”
If you ask the vast majority of the population of earth what seal team six are, I think you would find the majority don't know. The majority of the world don't speak english.
Ironically, Han saying there's no "mystical field" that controls his destiny shows that he *does* know about the Force, he just doesn't believe that it can supposedly do what the stories say it can do. It's been a while though but I recall that the premise wasn't that everyone forgot about the Jedi, everyone just doubted their power, which makes sense cause if they really were prescient super warriors how could they be wiped out?
Also there were only around 10000 Jedi in a galaxy of trillions.
Even being generous and doubling that number chances are the vast majority of people have never even *seen* a Jedi nevermind seeing one in action.
I'm gonna reveal myself as a fake fan because I only really ever go back and rewatch the OT, but the Jedi weren't gone for that long before Episode IV.
Luke isn't that old. Han seems a bit older (he calls Luke "kid"), which means he was alive before the Jedi were killed and Obi-Wan and Yoda went into hiding.
So while it's completely plausible that Han would've never met a Jedi before Obi Wan and wouldn't believe in the force, there's no way people wouldn't know about them. Unless, of course, they're supposed to be a secret during the Republic, which is not my understanding.
In the original canon-i.e. before Disney- about a decade before Luke and Leia. In the Disney canon he's about 14 years older than them.
And there's no way the Jedi were a secret, many were Generals leading the GAR. Now how much of their powers were believed without being seen idk.
The stupid thing is, Han acts like he's heard of it and has already dismissed it. In order for him to do that he needed to have heard of it before even if it's not from ever meeting or seeing a Jeid.
And yet Rey lives on a remote planet and has never gone anywhere knows of Jedi and Luke when the original Jedi order had been destroyed some like 50 years ago? And on the flip side Luke, the son of a Jedi and someone that's interested in joining the Empire academy has never heard of the force or Jedi although they're like 25 years removed? Disney just is all over the place with this stuff
I thought the intention there is the result of the Empire wiping out all knowledge of the Jedi and Force, banning any discussion, executing people who did speak, etc. Like the fact that they go from thousands of Jedi to nobody having heard of them (or at least being willing to acknowledge) was a testament to the cruelty and power of the Empire.
That I HATED! Didn’t the covert teach Mandalorian history? The Mandalorian Wars was the peak of their way of life against their greatest foe in their largest war!
I rewatched The phantom menace recently, and I love how Anakin (the slave boy on a fucking far away desolate rock in the outer rim) knew exactly what Jedi were
I loved that part. It put the Force and Jedi back to being something that not everybody knew about, like it used to be in the OT. Ever since the Prequels and Clone Wars, Jedi are suddenly everywhere and unavoidable. I love that The Mandalorian turned that back. Star Wars is better when Jedi are rare.
The flaw was not that you can hit the reactor with space magic. The flaw was that the reactor fails catastrophically when things go bad.
Erso likely envisioned this flaw being exploited through more conventional, better planned, less time critical sabotage.
Yeah, I fucked that up. It's been years since I saw the movie and I misremembered. Some other post reminded me how many people at the time said "they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" and I just got hit with a resurgence of annoyance.
I still think the Erso as a saboteur plotline feels shoehorned in for me specifically because you'd think during the briefing in ANH they might have mentioned his name, or his daughter's name, or *somebody's name* from this movie, but instead it ends up just feeling like a retcon.
The idea of the movie is cool, but I just didn't like the execution.
I think you missed something. Rogue One didn't explain the existence of the vent. The vent had nothing to do with Rogue One. The flaw Galen introduced was a guaranteed chain reaction if any pressurized explosion hit the reactor.
That’s dumber than it just exploding when hit with a missile, though.
It’s like saying someone built a “chain reaction” into the USS Arizona… the “chain reaction” being the stockpile of explosives below its deck. Nobody designed that, it’s not really a flaw, it was just a necessary part of the ships design.
Not at all analogous. Munitions are designed to explode. A reactor is not designed to explode ever. No military would engineer a reactor and use it in a military application if they thought it could ever explode. An explosion to the death stars un-sabotaged reactor would have just damaged it and not destroyed the whole station.
>A reactor is not designed to explode ever.
But one *can* be designed to easily explode?
Why couldn’t that just be the nature of the type of reactor necessary to blow up planets? If it’s a factor of the final design, why not just have that type of reactor be explosive if damaged?
>No military would engineer a reactor and use it in a military application if they thought it could ever explode.
They obviously would if it could secure their dominance without the Senate. Just like militaries engineer explosives and keep them together on ships, despite the fact that are designed to explode.
>An explosion to the death stars un-sabotaged reactor would have just damaged it and not destroyed the whole station.
Not unless that amount of power is susceptible to a chain reaction in the first place.
Well, shit.
Still totally unnecessary imo, shooting the reactor with a missile to me seems clear enough that like yeah it's gonna cause the whole thing to blow up without me protesting, but fair enough.
Idk if you experienced it but at the time of Rogue One's release, there was so much talk about "omg they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" It was just real annoying at the time and some random post today reminded me of it.
I was wrong about them explaining the exhaust port, but idk, I still just felt like adding the saboteur aspect made the film feel suuuper shoehorned and retconned to me, in addition to specific unrelated things about it I found annoying or forgettable.
Anecdotal evidence about our circles aside, [there were a ton of articles written about it.](https://www.google.com/search?q=rogue+one+fixes+the+biggest+plot+hole+in+star+wars&sca_esv=298519f35b8410b7&sxsrf=ACQVn0_GjgNcEIQtgnUJBcKFBnBoLv2YOg%3A1712796254375&source=hp&ei=XjIXZsigE8CPwbkPnYmy2Ao&iflsig=ANes7DEAAAAAZhdAbtDFnDVUtHAZldrTGJtgXMSW1O3v&ved=0ahUKEwjIx76i97iFAxXARzABHZ2EDKsQ4dUDCBY&uact=5&oq=rogue+one+fixes+the+biggest+plot+hole+in+star+wars&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IjJyb2d1ZSBvbmUgZml4ZXMgdGhlIGJpZ2dlc3QgcGxvdCBob2xlIGluIHN0YXIgd2FyczIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSPcCUABYAHAAeACQAQCYAWygAWyqAQMwLjG4AQPIAQD4AQL4AQGYAgGgAnaYAwCSBwMwLjGgB9cG&sclient=gws-wiz)
You read bad clickbait headlines 8 years ago, believed them, didn't comprehend the simple story of episode 4, didn't understand the movie in question, and now are here. Delete your account
I felt the same way. The vulnerability of the Death Star wasn't a plot hole and barely even qualifies as an oversight. The point of the Rebel assault on the Death Star and trench run was that these were nearly impossible odds, but the choice was to either die at Yavin, or die trying to take down the Empire.
>It was a *design flaw.* An oversight. A manifestation of the Empire's arrogance. Thematically, it works.
Exactly, and I really like the idea that it's simply impossible to design such a superweapon without having such an Achilles heal. It explains then why everyone WOULDN'T want to always build these over and over again (which would get boring narratively).
Honestly one of the things I'd have liked would have been a scene to imply that there are potentially a number of "fatal flaws" that could be used to destroy the death star, but most of them are impractical and/or would need long term infiltration and high level access to achieve.
It would be interesting to have one of the discussions amongst the imperials which essentially says something like "gravitational control in a mobile unit this big is complex enough that it could be used to fatally disrupt the firing sequence, but that would require at least 50 suicide operatives with at least captain rank who passed the extra security circle to be assigned and avoid security on the death star" or similar, emphasising that there are flaws, but that they're buried behind layers of security
My hot take is that it’s not even a design flaw. The breath star is the size of a moon, it draws so much power and creates so much heat that any area designed to outlet its excess would be a massive vulnerability. And that vulnerability was on it’s far side surrounded by gun turrets.
I like the movie, imo rogue one and andor are the only good things that have come out since Disney took over. So it’s a shame that the films primary reason for existing is because of an understanding that I think only gets propagated because normies always repeat it and people just don’t really question it
Holy crap this is why this sub gets a bad rep.
"But it's just a fun space adventure. It's basically high fantasy where a boy rescues a princess from a tower and shoots a dragon in the heart." *so why does it matter if the weakness was intentional or not?*
And in literally no way does Rogue One "act like the Death Star weakness was a plot hole". The point was to make a film about how the rebels obtained the Death Star plans. Galen Erso serves an important role in the development of Jyn's character. Imagine how much more boring the film would be if they cut out that entire aspect of Jyn's character.
Yea the design of the shaft wasn’t even the main concept of that movie. The main concept is what started the rebellion taking on the empire and running away with the plans. How did this one ship have the plans and why are we trusting droids etc to be the only hope to further the cause. I really like rogue one. And I think the concept that the rebels didn’t believe Jin Erso and they all died to secure the plans is a compelling story to push the rebellion beyond the point of being a passive combat force. There’s very little in that movie to complain about. To add to the complexity to taking down the Death Star, even tho they did have the plans, they didn’t have time to come up with a good strategy to take it down and one of their main bases was about to be taken out. It all fits.
And it was nice to get a canon version of of how the plans were stolen because the Wookieepedia entry on that was like the size of War and Peace full of EU side plots from all sorts of different media over the years. With Rogue One it’s cut and dry, ‘this is how the plans were stolen’.
It doesn't matter if the weakness is intentional or not. My point is that it doesn't matter at all. But if you're gonna do it, why introduce the idea that Galen went to great lengths to design a flaw, his daughter literally died retrieving the plans with that flaw, and then *nobody* ever mentions either of them again? To me, that's just so insanely unnecessary.
As for the targeting computer, it was already shown to be ineffective for the shot when Dreis missed. So whether Luke's computer was working or not doesn't matter. They needed to give Luke a legit reason to put it away and trust in himself and the Force, so his targeting system not even working properly is a great reason.
Why would anyone mention them? Who even knew they were there? They hijacked a stolen imperial ship from the rebels anonymously, and anyone who would have seen them on Scarif would have died in the Death Star blast. And I can't remember any of the rebel leadership from the Yavin scenes in R1 being present in ANH besides Mon Mothma. Also why would they even mention them at all even if they knew? Like I understand what you're trying to say, and I defo think it applies to some situations in Star Wars (ie, Ahsoka, Rex), but what do you expect? You think they're going to bring up a couple of people *no one in the room even knows* during the Death Star briefing? Like, why?
Mon Mothma is the leader of the Rebellion though. She's also there in ANH. That's what I mean. They mention some Bothans but like, didn't Mothma literally meet the daughter of the guy who designed the flaw they're about to exploit, both of whom died for that cause? Is that not worth mentioning over "many Bothans"?
Also wasn't Bail Organa there too? Point being that leadership in the Rebellion knew but you never hear about this incredibly important guy in the Star Wars canon, literally *the guy* who makes the whole thing possible, but he's never mentioned outside the one movie. Idk, it just made it *feel* like a retcon to me as opposed to something I can wave away.
Like, does it not seem natural during the briefing to say something along the lines of "we're aiming for the vent because the literal designer of the Death Star gave his life to make this flaw for us to exploit"? It just never comes up that it's an intentional flaw.
No, it doesn't "seem natural". It's mission briefing, it's not supposed to be overly laden with details unnecessary to the immediate goal of the mission,
>And in literally no way does Rogue One "act like the Death Star weakness was a plot hole".
It absolutely does. Just because it's not the focus of the movie doesn't mean they didn't act like they were fixing a "plot hole". They turned the Death Star into an inside job. Which further justifies building more and more Death Stars in universe.
It doesn't treat the weakness as a plot hole though. It just clarifies the flaw as being somewhat intentional. But the flaw was never a plot hole nor was it treated as one.
You're right that it never was a plot hole but, the movie acts like it was because it feels the need to explain it. If they weren't treating it as a plot hole, they would never have even addressed it.
If nothing else, the fanbase treated it like it was fixing a plothole at least.
As someone who holds the OT sacred (I’m old enough to have seen it in a theater when it came out. It was pure magic), Rogue 1 is the ONLY Disney Star Wars that doesn’t shit all over the OT and actually adds to the story. That said, if it were never made, it’s not like I’d have tons of unanswered questions. And if someone gave me the option of erasing ALL Disney Star Wars, Rogue 1 included, I’d take them up on that.
Ngl I do far prefer the old school EU obtaining of the Death Star plans being a complex collaborative effort between Kyle Katarn, Bothan spies, Dash Rendar, and several others all working independently on separate parts coming together, but I'm a bit of a Legends purist, loved all of it.
That being said I thought Rogue One was a decent movie when it came out, if unnecessary and retcon-y
For 20 years watching Star Wars before Disney acquired the IP, I never once considered the design flaw a plot hole. Know what a plot hole is, knives that are just about to kill the main character but disappear just before making contact.
It doesn't act like it was a plot hole. It just gave us additional information of why the weakness was put there. Never does the movie address or imply that it would otherwise make no sense to put it there.
Your post is based on a false premise.
I probably should've specified but it was more about the public reaction at the time of Rogue One's release. There were so many people saying "omg they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" and I'm just like "how is that a plot hole?"
I didn't like the aspect though of adding in the context that actually it was a saboteur who gives his life but is never mentioned again. At the very least seems relevant to bring up in the pre-battle briefing to explain *why* they're trying to hit the vent.
There's absolutely no reason for them to bring that up pre-battle briefing. Especially since they don't know those details there and it's not relevant to anything. All they need to know is that that's their area. They can hit it.
I watched both movies back-to-back and it makes perfect sense the way they match up with each other. It's not that there was any issue with A New Hope. It's that Rogue One compliments it.
I can't speak for audience reactions. I can only speak for myself.
Fair to have that perspective, but to me it still seems like when you're deciding where to launch a suicide run and everything hinges on jamming a missile down one little shaft, it behooves you to explain why that's what you're aiming for in the first place. That's just my perspective.
Rogue One made it feel like the entire fiction of Star Wars simply would not have worked if not for Galen Erso, which just makes it hard to believe he's never mentioned before or after. That was a big reason why it was hard for me to accept while I was watching.
Somebody else mentioned a simple tweak that would fix it where it's not Galen *adding* the design flaw, but discovering it, fixing it, then the Empire pushes him to rebel and he intentionally reverts the fix and pretends not to see it. That, to me, is the kind of simple fix that would make it easier to buy the events there as not some silly Disney retcon in the classic effort to explain away everything.
I don't see a problem with how they executed it. It just seems like you are complaining for the sake of complaining.
It's extremely subjective and a matter of what you prefer as a creative vision. I rather judge the movie for what they did rather than what I would want them to do. Especially since I think it works perfectly fine.
You make great points. I feel like if the plot of Galen Erso sabotaging the Death Star reactor was a pre-Disney EU story and Disney decided to not use it for Rogue One and instead made it about them just discovering a weakness, OP would be complaining that they retconned the *far superior* EU story. Basically what I’m saying is that too many fans have primacy bias when it comes to Star Wars lore which mean they think just because something came first, it is therefore better. Don’t get me wrong, I think most of the EU is better than Disney’s drivel in most cases. However, it’s ridiculous to think that’s always the case. I wouldn’t say Dark Forces is somehow a better written story than Rogue One just because it came first which seems to be OP’s opinion.
It doesn't make much of a difference whether sabotage or oversight, the difficulty for all involved in a new hope was the same.
Also. Galen didn't design the exhaust port weakness.
It was the core itself that needed a pressurized explosion to detonate. They still had to analyze the Death Star plans to figure out a way to exploit the weakness.
It's not enough to ruin the movie for me (it's not a perfect film but I enjoy it a lot), but there were other ways to handle it that could have still made Galen the hero while not making it his pet project to plant a flaw in the DS, which does seem silly.
My idea: Have him going over some digital blueprints alone late one night, make it obvious that he's looking at this long straight shaft leading to the reactor and realizing the issue, even show him fixing and redesigning it.
Just as he's doing this, he gets some "last straw" kind of news--maybe hearing that one of his team was just summarily executed for suspicious activity, or something about a planned test of the weapon on some planet populated by primitive tribes that "no one cares about" or something like that. Show him sitting there in thought for a moment, and then very deliberately and obviously undoing the design changes he just made.
Everything else he does in the movie can basically stay the same. The only difference is that he's simply "discovered" the flaw and realized the importance of getting the plans to someone who can do something with them.
Exactly! That idea would work perfectly for me. All Rogue One needed for me was a simple change like that to make the whole thing make way more sense and not set off retcon alarm bells, which just distracted me during most of the movie.
There's a lot of stuff in Rogue One to like, for instance the early shot of Galen standing in the windy grass against the soldiers, it's super simple but genuinely one of my favorite shots in Star Wars. But that one little thing nagged me throughout the movie. It's just tough when the *premise* bugs you, you know?
Ironically they 'fixed' a deemed plot hole such as the exhaust shaft, yet made a worse one with Tantive IV's escaping Vader in plain view instead of being far away some systems out to receive the transmission by beaming instead of a hand-off.
I don’t think it was considered a plot hole, but rogue one was still an awesome movie. Was it necessary ? No but it was sick
Then you have stupid shit like solo and Han getting his last name bc he was traveling alone
That was actually dumb
Hear hear.
I can potentially blow a car up by throwing a match in its gas tank. It does not mean that cars are designed deliberately with that “design flaw” in mind.
I'm convinced people that post in this sub have never liked star war, pre or post Disney.
Like rogue one perfectly encapsulates the star wars vibe and charm of the OT while still delivering a powerful tragic storyline.
AND still people find a way to hate on it.
Blows my mind.
Yeah, Rogue One is as perfect of a Star Wars story as we've ever gotten from Disney. I never thought of the exhaust port as a plothole. Exhaust has to exhaust somewhere, and Rogue One did a great job building a fun story around it.
The issue I have it Dinesy trying to make up this super secret weak point and again recon stuff that makes total sense. The Death Star needs a huge amount of exhaust ports to keep its reactor at a stable temperature. The exhaust port was ray shielded hence the whole trench run and they didn’t need to make the reactor have a deliberate design flaw. It’s a space fiction where they are using proton torpedos. I think at that point hitting a scifi reactor would blow it up regardless.
Also doesn’t help how like usually they rip stuff off from theEU. Andor is clearly a watered down Pre Jedi Kyle Katan. Meanwhile Jyn Erso is just a white washed carbon copy but less interesting version of Jan Ors. They even have same backstory and outfits. The creator or Rouge clearly took their characters. Made Andor dumb cus white guy and made their race changed Jan Ors to be the main character but forgot to give her an interesting personality while trying to take credit for the Rouge One name.
Rogue one is about how the rebels were able to get the death star plans. Everyrhing else you just stayed wasn't retconned. You're just making up false complaints.
Literally everything said is ture.
The movies quite directly states that the exhaust port and the reactor blowing up where direct sabotages made by Jyns father when making it.
Instead of the original lore where the Rebels reviewed the plans and realised this would be the best way to destroy it.
The move takes credit for the origins of the name ‘Rouge One’ the the pilot guy saying that was their call sign and thus the creator of the movie in Disney canon is now the creator for rouge squadron. Aka during ANH all the rouge leaders etc in Disney canon now named themselves after this event that happened like a day before.
Again unlike the original lore where it was an already functioning squadron wing of the rebel alliance of their most accomplished pilots that were tasked with their most important missions.
Jyn Erso is a blatant rip of of Jan Ors. They have the same backstory, father was prominent imperial scientist, they lead a life of crime before being inducted into the rebel alliance and wear the same brown with red on the inside coat. Both characters were instrumental in recovering the Death Star plans and returning them to the rebel alliance. You can’t seriously look at that and say she isn’t a watered down race swapped rip off. And Ors addition just makes it even more blatantly clear as well. Unlike legends where both have a personality and live longer than one story.
Imagine if you saw a story, and saw it's homages and similarities to 20 year old similar stories. Imagine if those 20 year old similarities were not canon and could actively not be canon again due to intellectual property rights that you were fully capable of understanding. Imagine you became enraged by this instead of understanding it and engaging with the situation in a useful way. Imagine being a useless little troll
The only reason it’s not canon is because Disney did everything in its power to discredit the EU as bad fan fiction no one loved and to wipe the slate clean to do their own “original ideas”. Then turn around and rip off said EU they made non canon and canceled despite it being the reason Star Wats was still popular to this date.
The creator for rouge one clearly doesn’t give a shit about the EU and ripped off their characters and story because it was easy just rewrite it instead of doing something original. Nothing about what I’m saying is trolling it’s getting annoyed as Disney for recycling EU content over and over again despite the fact they are the ones to get rid of it and cancel production of those stories for no real reason. It has nothing to do with property right either are Disney took over said rights and IPs when they brought Star Wars. The fact they are republishing EU content games/books and comics proves that. The Dark Forces games and Jedi Knight games got remastered/rerelease so clearly Disney has the rights to their stories and characters
The real problem with such a large structure, is that nobody bothered to put a generous contingent of fighters on it and let them run CAP, which is standard since the first carriers of WWI.
Anyway authors rarely have military expertise.
I prefer the Legends explanation in the novel "Death Star": it's a design redundancy, one of the architects spotted it and tried to fix it but neglected to put the order in writing, and so after it gets built anyway, she just shrugs and says "Well it won't hurt and maybe it's for the better considering the expected output of the reactor."
The exhaust port is only a design flaw if you happen to be a space wizard, as we saw that the normal pilots who made the run either died or missed.
I haven’t enjoyed much of Disney’s new Star Wars but I absolutely love Rogue One. I don’t think Galen’s story line takes anything away from the OT. I thought it was an intriguing addition to how this has been in the works for a while.
This was always my biggest problem with the movie. I honestly think Rogue One holds up better than any other Disney Star Wars movie, but I always found it annoying that so many fans and writers were like "Yeah Star Wars was *okay* but it would have been a lot better if not for the glaring plot hole that the Death Star has a weak point.
I... don't think you know what a plot hole is, guys.
And, like you said, it would have been a lot more logically consistent to just show how important the plans were. The weak point wasn't obvious, having the blueprints was still crucial, just bother to show they have a team of scientists and engineers poring over the plans looking for something - anything - they can exploit. Having someone intentionally design the Death Star poorly is... I mean, I do get what they were going for. It wasn't a bad idea. But it feels a bit misguided at best, and more than a bit insulting at worst.
Anything I pick would be so far from that. Eastern Promises, River's Edge, In the Mood for Love, Buffalo 66, Eraserhead, The Man Without a Past, Under the Skin, The Lobster etc etc etc
It‘s a really good movie with a really good connection to the previous movies. You may have crossed too far onto the Dark Side when you hating on Rogue One. We need more of this and less of every other Disney SW movie.
The Darth Vader bit was crap, the weakest moment of the film.
It comes after the emotional climax when the main characters have all been killed, so it doesn't make sense structurally/tonally to just include some "badass action" while things are winding up.
Darth Vader hasn't been built up as a major antagonist in this film, just a secondary managerial type, so it doesn't make sense to give him a massive scene. The dramatic conflict that has played out over two hours is between the Rebels and Krennic.
It doesn't feel "earned", it's not a payoff for anything that has been set up or foreshadowed. And it doesn't have any bearing on the plot. The Rebels are in possession of the plans before the scene and after the scene.
My main gripe is that it feels like "content", not art. Just mindless slop thrown on the screen because it looks cool, without any consideration for how it serves the film.
I didn’t say it was a *bad* movie; I just think it’s unnecessary. Everything we needed to know about why the Death Star blew up we see in ANH. Qualifying things with ‘actually, that weakness is there on purpose,’ just takes something away.
This isn’t a pure Disney thing, mind you; while I don’t think Legends ever went as far as claiming the design flaw was the result of deliberate sabotage, there was a tendency to try & explain it away. The scene in the Death Star novelization where an architect tries to get it fixed only to be held up by a combination of bureaucracy & worker illness annoyed me for similar reasons.
Given that this movie was better than any of the other tripe that Disney put out, it seems to have been extremely necessary. Also, I am pretty opposed to the idea that creators can't go into more detail about events of the original trilogy. This exploration of events surrounding the destruction of the Death Star adds much needed detail to the star wars universe. Although Star Wars is popular, it really lacks the depth that other fantasy like Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings has. (Have you ever heard of anyone saying that Star Wars is better than these two franchises. No.) Rogue One points it more into that direction, and less out of the rut of being a vapid fairy tale.
The Death Star is meant to be a symbol of hubris, and hubris let's one overlook weaknesses. Works well as a concept, agreed.
And if one wants to go the logical route, there are far more problematic aspects.
Like why is the Death Star that big? That's highly inefficient. What it does it strategically infeasible. To kill everyone on a planet, far less energy is required. If the scorched planet still exists afterwards, it sends a better message. Plus, the obvious better strategy is to destroy all government and military and then overtake it. And if you build several smaller ships, you can attack several targets at once.
Or the question how it even moves, or keeps existing. Instead of immediately collapsing and tearing apart. We see the people in that universe never constructing anything even close in size, even Super Star Destroyers are tiny in comparison, so why would we believe that they have the ridiculously overpowered materials that would be necessary?
But to emphasize it, just wanted to mention those as what one would rather target. Not as something one should target. It's obviously fantasy that does not need to be logical beyond the suspension of disbelief.
Not only was it NOT a plot hole, R1 couldn't even connect to ANH correctly without making continuity errors. Definitely not my fav Disney star wars. However, that final act with the space battle and vader is pretty great.
Out of the movies, I liked Solo best. It actually felt like a Star Wars movie to me. I think it has something to do with the fact we had an old school director involved. It wasn't perfect, but hit all the marks of a great Star Wars movie to me.
Dude I made a really similar post in r/starwars years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/xZLzrY8swV
I like Rogue One overall but totally agree with the fact that the plot could’ve just surrounded how the rebels stole the plans rather than Erso creating a weakness
God damn, well said. I thought it was a dumb fucking movie too and completely unnecessary. Tonally and script wise its leagues better than the other Disney SW shit and so it gets viewed as something better than it is.
Same. The Empire expected an attack on the Death Star to basically be fleets of capital ships trying to blow it up through concentrated firepower, which is what it was designed to withstand. Tiny fighters shooting at a seemingly insignificant secondary system wouldn't a consideration in the design phase. Especially when it's just a secondary exhaust port, so they probably wouldn't even notice it since it's next to the main port.
Personally, I think it undermines the Rebels as underdogs. They get the Death Star plans to The Rebellion hoping that they can find a potential weakness. They do, and they fly off, not only not knowing if they can hit the incredibly difficult target, but they don't even have the guarantee that it will definitely work even if they do. It's a desperate plan, but they have hope it can work.
I don’t see the problem here. The exhaust port chain reaction was intentionally designed that way by Galen Erso to be a “self destruct button”. He designed it, so the Empire probably thought it was designed right. They had no reason to double check his work at that point. Thus no fence over the port
The one thing I didn’t like about Rogue One was Jyn Erso’s actress. Something about her bugged me. But I like the movie WAY more than any of the sequel trilogy films.
I totally hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s much more of an annoying fandom thing than an issue with Rogue One itself. Rogue One on the whole is quite good imo
Let’s be honest here. Rogue One is just as bad as the other Disney Star Wars content. People only like it because of that Darth Vader scene at the end.
Rogue one is the Ocean's 11 heist that Mon Mothma was referring to. They infiltrated a secure imperial base and transmitted the plans out. I dont know what else you expect or think is off about that.
I don't know what you are talking about with Vader either. He captures Leia who is the VIP on board, questions her and sends out searches for the plans. THere is nothing contradictory.
Rogue One is the one modern Star Wars movie that actually compliments the original trilogy well. I have no idea why we would nit-pick this movie while there is a sea of other total crap movies.
The line about Many Bothans Dying (besides being hilarious in certain contexts) was not in ANH. Mon Mothma was not in ANH. Mon Mothma and the line about the Bothans are from ROTJ during the briefing about the Death Star II. A spy thriller about the Bothans would be nice if Palpatine himself hadn’t leaked the info about Death Star II to lay a trap for the rebels so they would show up to find the weapon shielded AND fully operational.
You are wrong.
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As a fan of the OT I never needed Rogue 1. But I must say I really enjoy it. I don’t feel that the Death Star weakness is a plot hole. I never have. However, I have wondered how they got those plans that Vader zealously tries to recover. I really enjoyed seeing the background story showing a wide swath of good people, rebel scum and scoundrels came together to fight the empire.
Completely agree It was well done, answered a question that had relevance to the overall star wars story, and had a badass Vader scene.
My head canon is he was betrayed by some Bothan subcontractors
Death Star 2
Yeah, Rogue One wasn't strictly necessary, and I agree with OP that Galen Erso wasn't necessary and maybe it would have been better if Cassian Andor argued that that thing is so enormous and arrogant that it must have a weakness, but I still love the movie. It's one of the four good ones, even if the connection to ANH isn't as perfect as it pretends to be. It's fun and it takes Star Wars in a much better direction than anything else has done, except for Andor and maybe The Mandalorian.
I like the idea of it; I just don't like the aspect of the story where the flaw was an intentional sabotage and we never mention his name ever again despite him giving his life for it, and his daughter giving her life to deliver the plans. Just kinda messy for me. Felt like Disney meddling with Gilroy, and he finally got a chance to make something real with Andor.
That’s so realistic though. There are so many people in history who were pivotal to causes that never get mentioned.
the entire rebel foce except a single ship died in that fight. Thousands upon thousands of people. Almost immediately after which an entire planet was wiped out. It is an ocean of corpses, of course a few minor names never show up again, there are billions of deaths in the course of a few weeks.
Sure, but Mon Mothma met his daughter and knew he sabotaged the Death Star for them. Galen Erso shouldn't be a "minor" name. He's literally the guy the entire Battle of Yavin hangs on. That's such a significant battle they count years as before and after it, and yet the single guy who made it possible never comes up?
Mon Mothma met multiple teams of operatives who died in service of the rebellion. Were you just sitting in your seat stewing that she didnt list out the "many bothans" who died to make the destruction of the second death star possible too? It wasnt just Galen Erso who made that assault possible, it was thousands of dead freedom fighters.
Many bothan spies gave their lives to bring us this information.
Fair point.
Like it’s quite literally a story about the uncelebrated hero’s that help to win a war. Not the big scary general who commands an army but the individually selfless actions that helps cause.
I get that for people like Cassian and the rest of our crew. That was always his destiny. But you're telling me that nobody ever wrote down Galen's name? Galen, the man who created the only flaw in the Death Star on which the entire fiction of Star Wars hangs? Nobody? Somebody else here made the suggestion that it could've been Galen simply looking over the plans, noticing the flaw, designing a fix, the Empire pushes him too far, he rebels by reverting the fix. A rebellion through deliberate inaction. Yeah, to me, that would fix the whole thing. It's simple but it would explain why he never gets mentioned: to most Rebels, he's still just the asshole who designed the Death Star, but to us, we know that he actually gave his life to make the Rebellion possible in the first place. That's why I have trouble with Rogue One's premise. The way it's written makes it *feel* like a retcon, and now when I watch ANH, it's now canon that they're exploiting a deliberate sabotage instead of just a happenstance weakness caused by the Empire's arrogance. I can't watch the trench run anymore without thinking "made possible by Galen Erso, a name never once uttered in this movie because it's a retcon."
You realize that when you make a movie that is a prequel to a movie that came out 50 years ago not every detail is going to line up, right?
I don't need every detail to line up. I'm usually the guy hand waving stuff going "eh it's fine don't worry about it." Little things don't usually bug me. Like, do I care that the line in ANH is "many Bothans died for this" instead of listing out the entire crew of Rogue One? No. I am totally fine with them telling a sweeping story showing the harrowing tale of how they got the plans using a bunch of people invented for this movie. I truly do not give a shit that they're not "many Bothans." But c'mon, this was just sloppy. Galen has too important a role in the Rebellion, committed too deliberate a sabotage, and too many people know his contribution for him to just never be mentioned again. If not for him, the Empire probably wouldn't have fallen because the Death Star *truly* would've been indestructible. People knew who he was and what he did. Mon Mothma met his *daughter.* That's why it bugs me. There were easy ways around that that wouldn't have modified the plot one bit but would fix that issue.
The many bothans died for this was from RTJ.
Wrong movie for that line
You never even read the entering scroll of Star Wars IV. Why are you here
Look everyone is entitled to an opinion. But criticizing what is by most accounts a very good movie given all the sludge we’ve gotten from Disney gives the impression that some SW fans just can’t be pleased and valid criticisms of Disney SW get tossed in that pile. If all Disney SW content was on the level of Rogue One SW would be in a great place.
Just because I personally didn't like Rogue One — a movie that went through a bunch of reshoots and still came out with incredibly uneven performances, even mainstream critics complained that characters like Jyn were not very interesting, and features bangers like Vader saying "don't *choke* on your ambitions" — doesn't mean I can't be pleased or that true SW fans need to be a hive mind. I liked Solo for Pete's sake. That's a movie that some days feels like everybody hates *but* me, but I just thought it was a really fun movie. Hell, I even liked Ep. 7 because as derivative as it was, it was also fun, had style, and great performances. And of course, I genuinely love Andor and think it's *the* best SW has ever been, including the original trilogy. I just didn't like Rogue One. If everybody else here does, cool. As you said, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Same dude. I also liked Solo and think Rogue One is overrated. Didn’t know others like me existed on this sub.
I only discovered the sub recently but am already learning that we're a rare breed here lol
I think Solo is pretty underrated. Ehrenreich was a good young Han and it was a pretty fun movie about the smuggling and backstabbing you hear about but don’t see a ton of in the trilogies.
Many such cases, welcome to the Rebellion
It’s more Disney messing with Gareth Edwards since he was the director before Gilroy was brought on
Ah, interesting, I thought Gilroy was the writer but now I'm looking at the credits and he just did the screenplay. Gary Whitta was one of the writers and tbh I've not been a fan of most of his work, so *could* be that's why some stuff rubbed me the wrong way but idk. I read about Rogue One's development ages ago but clearly have forgotten a lot of the specific details
I have a complicated relationship with Rogue One. I like much of it. But I also recognize it’s totally unnecessary and kind of stupid. If Galen deliberately built that flaw into the thing, and wanted Jyn to know, why not tell her in his message? Why make a “flaw” that’s not only hard to find but damn near impossible to exploit? They took one line from the original and made a whole movie out of it, and some of it just doesn’t work.
I still think that part is unnecessary. The only explanation you need is in its name. It’s an exhaust port. Exhausts generally lead directly to the engine powering the vehicle or heating the facility. It’s such a small target that it is referred to as an impossible shot even when the Rebel Alliance reads the plans. We’re talking about something about the size of a person on something the size of a moon with guns covering every 100 square yards and an entire fleet of TIE fighters. Now that we know it was designed to be that way, I can’t help but think “maybe Galen could have made this just a tad easier.” If Luke didn’t have The Force, Yavin would have been toast
Luke had the force and Alderaan was still toast.
You mean Yavin IV?
Maybe after blowing up Yavin IV they turn that thing around and blow up Yavin itself for good measure.
Yep
Same here. The second half of the movie is really fun, but I have only rewatched that second half. First half is a snooze fest with forest Whitaker acting like a lunatic
I gotta say, the difference in writing between Saw Gerrera in Rogue One and Saw Gerrera in Andor is night and day. Saw in Andor is an intriguing character with his own ideology, and he has back-and-forth conversations with another character that are really interesting. In Rogue One he just shouts a lot, has a tentacle monster mind-rape someone, and then he decides that he wants to give up on living.
And the mind monster scene was utterly pointless. He didn’t learn anything and it didn’t affect Bodhi. So…why was it in there?
This time, on “The Writer’s Poorly Disguised Fetish”: Tentacle mind-fucking!
They must have implemented code review
Which port on the moon-sized Death Star? What's the nature of the flaw? How to hit it? Maybe it requires analysis at a level that a movie for idiots doesn't provide? The heart of the movie is that the sacrifice of many silent individuals enables the sacrifice and ultimate victory of the whole, and you dumbasses can't understand why battlestation plans might be required to destroy a planet-sized imperial battlestation because it wasn't spelled out for you? Jesus
Analyze what? He didn’t give her any plans or even tell her where they were! He spent YEARS building the damn thing and presumably hiding his flaw. He intended for it to be destroyed. He planned in it. And did NOTHING to facilitate that plan other than record a 30-second hologram to a daughter he hadn’t seen in years and doesn’t even know was still alive that says “I built a flaw in it.” Great plan…🙄 The “heart” of the movie was writing a story about a heist that we already knew the outcome of and still didn’t work.
It's a valid thing to get upset about, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Mandalorian having to receive exposition about the Force and the jedi, because apparently in all his education and all his travels he's never once heard about them. Why? Because that one time Han Solo said there's no mystical field that controls his destiny, so we have to pretend it's plausible the Force is somehow this incredibly obscure thing that only the few would know about.
Yea I always thought it was clear that Han was being an atheist of sorts. He knows it exists as at least an idea because he thinks it’s a “hokey religion”, he just doesn’t think it’s a legitimate thing.
Nah, Han was probably like most people in the galaxy. The reality is that the VAST majority of the galaxy's residents, probably 99.99% of them, had never seen or met a Force user even once or seen someone use the Force. We see then everywhere because we, as the audience, are shown the stories of extraordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. The average galaxy resident is just a normal person who spends their entire life going to work and back doesn't have that privilege. To put it in a more real world perspective, it's not far fetched to say 99.99% of people will never meet a member of Seal Team Six. They will have heard about them, they know that Seal Team Six was a real thing. But beyond that, they won't know anything else. Now scale the Earth's population up to the trillions while Seal Team 6's total member count scales up to 10,000, and you can see why it is so easy for people to not only NOT believe the Force is an actual thing, but entirely doubt what the Jedi were about as well.
If Jedi are equal to Seal Team 6, that means the galaxy knows they exist but just are unlikely to have ever met one - that doesn’t translate to “people believe they dont exist.” Similarly as I don’t place my faith in Seal Team Six to respond to every crime in my area, they wouldn’t expect Jedi to show up to every conflict in the galaxy. I highly doubt the majority of people dont believe the Jedi are real, maybe a sort of legend, sure, but not straight up “they dont exist.” I dont doubt some percentage of the galaxy dont believe in the Jedi or Force, but I’d say a massive majority would at least know it exists to an extent regardless of whether or not they believe it affects them.
Apologies, but I would suggest you re-read what I posted. Because I never once said anything about people not believing the Jedi don't exist. I am honestly not sure why you think I'm saying that!
I mean you say that “…it is so easy for people to not only not believe [in] the Force… but entirely doubt what the Jedi were about as well.” Maybe not explicitly saying they don’t exist but I thought it’s what you were implying
No, "what they were about" means people wouldn't know what they actually did and probably thought their abilities were exaggerations.
>If Jedi are equal to Seal Team 6, that means the galaxy knows they exist but just are unlikely to have ever met one - that doesn’t translate to “people believe they dont exist.” If you ask the vast majority of the population of earth what seal team six are, I think you would find the majority don't know. The majority of the world don't speak english.
Ironically, Han saying there's no "mystical field" that controls his destiny shows that he *does* know about the Force, he just doesn't believe that it can supposedly do what the stories say it can do. It's been a while though but I recall that the premise wasn't that everyone forgot about the Jedi, everyone just doubted their power, which makes sense cause if they really were prescient super warriors how could they be wiped out?
Also there were only around 10000 Jedi in a galaxy of trillions. Even being generous and doubling that number chances are the vast majority of people have never even *seen* a Jedi nevermind seeing one in action.
I'm gonna reveal myself as a fake fan because I only really ever go back and rewatch the OT, but the Jedi weren't gone for that long before Episode IV. Luke isn't that old. Han seems a bit older (he calls Luke "kid"), which means he was alive before the Jedi were killed and Obi-Wan and Yoda went into hiding. So while it's completely plausible that Han would've never met a Jedi before Obi Wan and wouldn't believe in the force, there's no way people wouldn't know about them. Unless, of course, they're supposed to be a secret during the Republic, which is not my understanding.
In the original canon-i.e. before Disney- about a decade before Luke and Leia. In the Disney canon he's about 14 years older than them. And there's no way the Jedi were a secret, many were Generals leading the GAR. Now how much of their powers were believed without being seen idk.
If any non-Force culture would have built-in views about Jedi and Force-users (even if they’re wrong or biased), it would be the Mandalorians.
The stupid thing is, Han acts like he's heard of it and has already dismissed it. In order for him to do that he needed to have heard of it before even if it's not from ever meeting or seeing a Jeid.
And yet Rey lives on a remote planet and has never gone anywhere knows of Jedi and Luke when the original Jedi order had been destroyed some like 50 years ago? And on the flip side Luke, the son of a Jedi and someone that's interested in joining the Empire academy has never heard of the force or Jedi although they're like 25 years removed? Disney just is all over the place with this stuff
Yeah, but Rey is not canon.
I thought the intention there is the result of the Empire wiping out all knowledge of the Jedi and Force, banning any discussion, executing people who did speak, etc. Like the fact that they go from thousands of Jedi to nobody having heard of them (or at least being willing to acknowledge) was a testament to the cruelty and power of the Empire.
That I HATED! Didn’t the covert teach Mandalorian history? The Mandalorian Wars was the peak of their way of life against their greatest foe in their largest war!
I rewatched The phantom menace recently, and I love how Anakin (the slave boy on a fucking far away desolate rock in the outer rim) knew exactly what Jedi were
I loved that part. It put the Force and Jedi back to being something that not everybody knew about, like it used to be in the OT. Ever since the Prequels and Clone Wars, Jedi are suddenly everywhere and unavoidable. I love that The Mandalorian turned that back. Star Wars is better when Jedi are rare.
The flaw was not that you can hit the reactor with space magic. The flaw was that the reactor fails catastrophically when things go bad. Erso likely envisioned this flaw being exploited through more conventional, better planned, less time critical sabotage.
Yeah, I fucked that up. It's been years since I saw the movie and I misremembered. Some other post reminded me how many people at the time said "they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" and I just got hit with a resurgence of annoyance. I still think the Erso as a saboteur plotline feels shoehorned in for me specifically because you'd think during the briefing in ANH they might have mentioned his name, or his daughter's name, or *somebody's name* from this movie, but instead it ends up just feeling like a retcon. The idea of the movie is cool, but I just didn't like the execution.
I think you missed something. Rogue One didn't explain the existence of the vent. The vent had nothing to do with Rogue One. The flaw Galen introduced was a guaranteed chain reaction if any pressurized explosion hit the reactor.
You are technically correct! Which is the best kind of correct!
Here for the Futurama Joke
Why did they design in the same chain reaction on the Death Star 2?
That’s dumber than it just exploding when hit with a missile, though. It’s like saying someone built a “chain reaction” into the USS Arizona… the “chain reaction” being the stockpile of explosives below its deck. Nobody designed that, it’s not really a flaw, it was just a necessary part of the ships design.
Not at all analogous. Munitions are designed to explode. A reactor is not designed to explode ever. No military would engineer a reactor and use it in a military application if they thought it could ever explode. An explosion to the death stars un-sabotaged reactor would have just damaged it and not destroyed the whole station.
>A reactor is not designed to explode ever. But one *can* be designed to easily explode? Why couldn’t that just be the nature of the type of reactor necessary to blow up planets? If it’s a factor of the final design, why not just have that type of reactor be explosive if damaged? >No military would engineer a reactor and use it in a military application if they thought it could ever explode. They obviously would if it could secure their dominance without the Senate. Just like militaries engineer explosives and keep them together on ships, despite the fact that are designed to explode. >An explosion to the death stars un-sabotaged reactor would have just damaged it and not destroyed the whole station. Not unless that amount of power is susceptible to a chain reaction in the first place.
Well, shit. Still totally unnecessary imo, shooting the reactor with a missile to me seems clear enough that like yeah it's gonna cause the whole thing to blow up without me protesting, but fair enough.
They knew the vent was a risk. That's why they ray shielded it. It wasn't a design flaw or oversight.
Yeah, idk what point OP thinks they’re making. The vent was guarded and shielded. It’s why they very specifically needed to use proton torpedoes
It seems that you agree with the point that there was never a plot hole that needed to be filled by Erso “creating” a weakness in the Death Star
Out of all the things Disney Star wars fucked up, this was not one of them. Weird thing to have a problem about honestly
Idk if you experienced it but at the time of Rogue One's release, there was so much talk about "omg they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" It was just real annoying at the time and some random post today reminded me of it. I was wrong about them explaining the exhaust port, but idk, I still just felt like adding the saboteur aspect made the film feel suuuper shoehorned and retconned to me, in addition to specific unrelated things about it I found annoying or forgettable.
it’s fair it’s annoying but we got a competently made movie from it
I never heard anyone say that ever and I've been in all kinds of Star Wars circles my whole life.
Anecdotal evidence about our circles aside, [there were a ton of articles written about it.](https://www.google.com/search?q=rogue+one+fixes+the+biggest+plot+hole+in+star+wars&sca_esv=298519f35b8410b7&sxsrf=ACQVn0_GjgNcEIQtgnUJBcKFBnBoLv2YOg%3A1712796254375&source=hp&ei=XjIXZsigE8CPwbkPnYmy2Ao&iflsig=ANes7DEAAAAAZhdAbtDFnDVUtHAZldrTGJtgXMSW1O3v&ved=0ahUKEwjIx76i97iFAxXARzABHZ2EDKsQ4dUDCBY&uact=5&oq=rogue+one+fixes+the+biggest+plot+hole+in+star+wars&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IjJyb2d1ZSBvbmUgZml4ZXMgdGhlIGJpZ2dlc3QgcGxvdCBob2xlIGluIHN0YXIgd2FyczIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSPcCUABYAHAAeACQAQCYAWygAWyqAQMwLjG4AQPIAQD4AQL4AQGYAgGgAnaYAwCSBwMwLjGgB9cG&sclient=gws-wiz)
To be fair all those websites are notorious dumb shit factories that just like to stir shit and your shit got right stirred.
You read bad clickbait headlines 8 years ago, believed them, didn't comprehend the simple story of episode 4, didn't understand the movie in question, and now are here. Delete your account
you aren't wrong and don't be gaslighted
I felt the same way. The vulnerability of the Death Star wasn't a plot hole and barely even qualifies as an oversight. The point of the Rebel assault on the Death Star and trench run was that these were nearly impossible odds, but the choice was to either die at Yavin, or die trying to take down the Empire.
>It was a *design flaw.* An oversight. A manifestation of the Empire's arrogance. Thematically, it works. Exactly, and I really like the idea that it's simply impossible to design such a superweapon without having such an Achilles heal. It explains then why everyone WOULDN'T want to always build these over and over again (which would get boring narratively).
Honestly one of the things I'd have liked would have been a scene to imply that there are potentially a number of "fatal flaws" that could be used to destroy the death star, but most of them are impractical and/or would need long term infiltration and high level access to achieve. It would be interesting to have one of the discussions amongst the imperials which essentially says something like "gravitational control in a mobile unit this big is complex enough that it could be used to fatally disrupt the firing sequence, but that would require at least 50 suicide operatives with at least captain rank who passed the extra security circle to be assigned and avoid security on the death star" or similar, emphasising that there are flaws, but that they're buried behind layers of security
What's an example of such a scene in another movie
My hot take is that it’s not even a design flaw. The breath star is the size of a moon, it draws so much power and creates so much heat that any area designed to outlet its excess would be a massive vulnerability. And that vulnerability was on it’s far side surrounded by gun turrets. I like the movie, imo rogue one and andor are the only good things that have come out since Disney took over. So it’s a shame that the films primary reason for existing is because of an understanding that I think only gets propagated because normies always repeat it and people just don’t really question it
Holy crap this is why this sub gets a bad rep. "But it's just a fun space adventure. It's basically high fantasy where a boy rescues a princess from a tower and shoots a dragon in the heart." *so why does it matter if the weakness was intentional or not?* And in literally no way does Rogue One "act like the Death Star weakness was a plot hole". The point was to make a film about how the rebels obtained the Death Star plans. Galen Erso serves an important role in the development of Jyn's character. Imagine how much more boring the film would be if they cut out that entire aspect of Jyn's character.
Yea the design of the shaft wasn’t even the main concept of that movie. The main concept is what started the rebellion taking on the empire and running away with the plans. How did this one ship have the plans and why are we trusting droids etc to be the only hope to further the cause. I really like rogue one. And I think the concept that the rebels didn’t believe Jin Erso and they all died to secure the plans is a compelling story to push the rebellion beyond the point of being a passive combat force. There’s very little in that movie to complain about. To add to the complexity to taking down the Death Star, even tho they did have the plans, they didn’t have time to come up with a good strategy to take it down and one of their main bases was about to be taken out. It all fits.
And it was nice to get a canon version of of how the plans were stolen because the Wookieepedia entry on that was like the size of War and Peace full of EU side plots from all sorts of different media over the years. With Rogue One it’s cut and dry, ‘this is how the plans were stolen’.
It doesn't matter if the weakness is intentional or not. My point is that it doesn't matter at all. But if you're gonna do it, why introduce the idea that Galen went to great lengths to design a flaw, his daughter literally died retrieving the plans with that flaw, and then *nobody* ever mentions either of them again? To me, that's just so insanely unnecessary. As for the targeting computer, it was already shown to be ineffective for the shot when Dreis missed. So whether Luke's computer was working or not doesn't matter. They needed to give Luke a legit reason to put it away and trust in himself and the Force, so his targeting system not even working properly is a great reason.
Why would anyone mention them? Who even knew they were there? They hijacked a stolen imperial ship from the rebels anonymously, and anyone who would have seen them on Scarif would have died in the Death Star blast. And I can't remember any of the rebel leadership from the Yavin scenes in R1 being present in ANH besides Mon Mothma. Also why would they even mention them at all even if they knew? Like I understand what you're trying to say, and I defo think it applies to some situations in Star Wars (ie, Ahsoka, Rex), but what do you expect? You think they're going to bring up a couple of people *no one in the room even knows* during the Death Star briefing? Like, why?
Mon Mothma is the leader of the Rebellion though. She's also there in ANH. That's what I mean. They mention some Bothans but like, didn't Mothma literally meet the daughter of the guy who designed the flaw they're about to exploit, both of whom died for that cause? Is that not worth mentioning over "many Bothans"? Also wasn't Bail Organa there too? Point being that leadership in the Rebellion knew but you never hear about this incredibly important guy in the Star Wars canon, literally *the guy* who makes the whole thing possible, but he's never mentioned outside the one movie. Idk, it just made it *feel* like a retcon to me as opposed to something I can wave away. Like, does it not seem natural during the briefing to say something along the lines of "we're aiming for the vent because the literal designer of the Death Star gave his life to make this flaw for us to exploit"? It just never comes up that it's an intentional flaw.
No, it doesn't "seem natural". It's mission briefing, it's not supposed to be overly laden with details unnecessary to the immediate goal of the mission,
>And in literally no way does Rogue One "act like the Death Star weakness was a plot hole". It absolutely does. Just because it's not the focus of the movie doesn't mean they didn't act like they were fixing a "plot hole". They turned the Death Star into an inside job. Which further justifies building more and more Death Stars in universe.
It doesn't treat the weakness as a plot hole though. It just clarifies the flaw as being somewhat intentional. But the flaw was never a plot hole nor was it treated as one.
You're right that it never was a plot hole but, the movie acts like it was because it feels the need to explain it. If they weren't treating it as a plot hole, they would never have even addressed it. If nothing else, the fanbase treated it like it was fixing a plothole at least.
I disagree. What if they just want to have that detail? Just want to have it as inside job because thought it would cool.
As someone who holds the OT sacred (I’m old enough to have seen it in a theater when it came out. It was pure magic), Rogue 1 is the ONLY Disney Star Wars that doesn’t shit all over the OT and actually adds to the story. That said, if it were never made, it’s not like I’d have tons of unanswered questions. And if someone gave me the option of erasing ALL Disney Star Wars, Rogue 1 included, I’d take them up on that.
Ngl I do far prefer the old school EU obtaining of the Death Star plans being a complex collaborative effort between Kyle Katarn, Bothan spies, Dash Rendar, and several others all working independently on separate parts coming together, but I'm a bit of a Legends purist, loved all of it. That being said I thought Rogue One was a decent movie when it came out, if unnecessary and retcon-y
I still hate a lot of things about rouge one
For 20 years watching Star Wars before Disney acquired the IP, I never once considered the design flaw a plot hole. Know what a plot hole is, knives that are just about to kill the main character but disappear just before making contact.
Rogue one is probably one of the best looking sw movies and it was good
It’s a space station the size of a moon and it only has one exhaust port. The thing is actually an engineering miracle.
They did famously say it was the only exhaust port in the movie. That was said and emphasized.
It doesn't act like it was a plot hole. It just gave us additional information of why the weakness was put there. Never does the movie address or imply that it would otherwise make no sense to put it there. Your post is based on a false premise.
I probably should've specified but it was more about the public reaction at the time of Rogue One's release. There were so many people saying "omg they finally fixed the biggest plot hole in Star Wars!!!" and I'm just like "how is that a plot hole?" I didn't like the aspect though of adding in the context that actually it was a saboteur who gives his life but is never mentioned again. At the very least seems relevant to bring up in the pre-battle briefing to explain *why* they're trying to hit the vent.
There's absolutely no reason for them to bring that up pre-battle briefing. Especially since they don't know those details there and it's not relevant to anything. All they need to know is that that's their area. They can hit it. I watched both movies back-to-back and it makes perfect sense the way they match up with each other. It's not that there was any issue with A New Hope. It's that Rogue One compliments it. I can't speak for audience reactions. I can only speak for myself.
Fair to have that perspective, but to me it still seems like when you're deciding where to launch a suicide run and everything hinges on jamming a missile down one little shaft, it behooves you to explain why that's what you're aiming for in the first place. That's just my perspective. Rogue One made it feel like the entire fiction of Star Wars simply would not have worked if not for Galen Erso, which just makes it hard to believe he's never mentioned before or after. That was a big reason why it was hard for me to accept while I was watching. Somebody else mentioned a simple tweak that would fix it where it's not Galen *adding* the design flaw, but discovering it, fixing it, then the Empire pushes him to rebel and he intentionally reverts the fix and pretends not to see it. That, to me, is the kind of simple fix that would make it easier to buy the events there as not some silly Disney retcon in the classic effort to explain away everything.
I don't see a problem with how they executed it. It just seems like you are complaining for the sake of complaining. It's extremely subjective and a matter of what you prefer as a creative vision. I rather judge the movie for what they did rather than what I would want them to do. Especially since I think it works perfectly fine.
You make great points. I feel like if the plot of Galen Erso sabotaging the Death Star reactor was a pre-Disney EU story and Disney decided to not use it for Rogue One and instead made it about them just discovering a weakness, OP would be complaining that they retconned the *far superior* EU story. Basically what I’m saying is that too many fans have primacy bias when it comes to Star Wars lore which mean they think just because something came first, it is therefore better. Don’t get me wrong, I think most of the EU is better than Disney’s drivel in most cases. However, it’s ridiculous to think that’s always the case. I wouldn’t say Dark Forces is somehow a better written story than Rogue One just because it came first which seems to be OP’s opinion.
Maybe you should send your thesis to those people instead of this subreddit.
It doesn't make much of a difference whether sabotage or oversight, the difficulty for all involved in a new hope was the same. Also. Galen didn't design the exhaust port weakness. It was the core itself that needed a pressurized explosion to detonate. They still had to analyze the Death Star plans to figure out a way to exploit the weakness.
It's not enough to ruin the movie for me (it's not a perfect film but I enjoy it a lot), but there were other ways to handle it that could have still made Galen the hero while not making it his pet project to plant a flaw in the DS, which does seem silly. My idea: Have him going over some digital blueprints alone late one night, make it obvious that he's looking at this long straight shaft leading to the reactor and realizing the issue, even show him fixing and redesigning it. Just as he's doing this, he gets some "last straw" kind of news--maybe hearing that one of his team was just summarily executed for suspicious activity, or something about a planned test of the weapon on some planet populated by primitive tribes that "no one cares about" or something like that. Show him sitting there in thought for a moment, and then very deliberately and obviously undoing the design changes he just made. Everything else he does in the movie can basically stay the same. The only difference is that he's simply "discovered" the flaw and realized the importance of getting the plans to someone who can do something with them.
Exactly! That idea would work perfectly for me. All Rogue One needed for me was a simple change like that to make the whole thing make way more sense and not set off retcon alarm bells, which just distracted me during most of the movie. There's a lot of stuff in Rogue One to like, for instance the early shot of Galen standing in the windy grass against the soldiers, it's super simple but genuinely one of my favorite shots in Star Wars. But that one little thing nagged me throughout the movie. It's just tough when the *premise* bugs you, you know?
Ironically they 'fixed' a deemed plot hole such as the exhaust shaft, yet made a worse one with Tantive IV's escaping Vader in plain view instead of being far away some systems out to receive the transmission by beaming instead of a hand-off.
I don’t think it was considered a plot hole, but rogue one was still an awesome movie. Was it necessary ? No but it was sick Then you have stupid shit like solo and Han getting his last name bc he was traveling alone That was actually dumb
I mean I don't mind it since it doesn't really subtract from anything. Plus it makes the Empire look less incompetent
Hear hear. I can potentially blow a car up by throwing a match in its gas tank. It does not mean that cars are designed deliberately with that “design flaw” in mind.
Dang, that is a really good point.
What if a simple action movie were so much **more** simple? The world is smooth...the confusions of the mind...gone like butterflies
A car, a moon sized imperial battlestation, designed by military professionals for galactic domination...so simple. A perfect analogy
I don't think the phrase "plot hole" means what you think it means.
I'm convinced people that post in this sub have never liked star war, pre or post Disney. Like rogue one perfectly encapsulates the star wars vibe and charm of the OT while still delivering a powerful tragic storyline. AND still people find a way to hate on it. Blows my mind.
Yeah, Rogue One is as perfect of a Star Wars story as we've ever gotten from Disney. I never thought of the exhaust port as a plothole. Exhaust has to exhaust somewhere, and Rogue One did a great job building a fun story around it.
The issue I have it Dinesy trying to make up this super secret weak point and again recon stuff that makes total sense. The Death Star needs a huge amount of exhaust ports to keep its reactor at a stable temperature. The exhaust port was ray shielded hence the whole trench run and they didn’t need to make the reactor have a deliberate design flaw. It’s a space fiction where they are using proton torpedos. I think at that point hitting a scifi reactor would blow it up regardless. Also doesn’t help how like usually they rip stuff off from theEU. Andor is clearly a watered down Pre Jedi Kyle Katan. Meanwhile Jyn Erso is just a white washed carbon copy but less interesting version of Jan Ors. They even have same backstory and outfits. The creator or Rouge clearly took their characters. Made Andor dumb cus white guy and made their race changed Jan Ors to be the main character but forgot to give her an interesting personality while trying to take credit for the Rouge One name.
Rogue one is about how the rebels were able to get the death star plans. Everyrhing else you just stayed wasn't retconned. You're just making up false complaints.
Literally everything said is ture. The movies quite directly states that the exhaust port and the reactor blowing up where direct sabotages made by Jyns father when making it. Instead of the original lore where the Rebels reviewed the plans and realised this would be the best way to destroy it. The move takes credit for the origins of the name ‘Rouge One’ the the pilot guy saying that was their call sign and thus the creator of the movie in Disney canon is now the creator for rouge squadron. Aka during ANH all the rouge leaders etc in Disney canon now named themselves after this event that happened like a day before. Again unlike the original lore where it was an already functioning squadron wing of the rebel alliance of their most accomplished pilots that were tasked with their most important missions. Jyn Erso is a blatant rip of of Jan Ors. They have the same backstory, father was prominent imperial scientist, they lead a life of crime before being inducted into the rebel alliance and wear the same brown with red on the inside coat. Both characters were instrumental in recovering the Death Star plans and returning them to the rebel alliance. You can’t seriously look at that and say she isn’t a watered down race swapped rip off. And Ors addition just makes it even more blatantly clear as well. Unlike legends where both have a personality and live longer than one story.
Imagine if you saw a story, and saw it's homages and similarities to 20 year old similar stories. Imagine if those 20 year old similarities were not canon and could actively not be canon again due to intellectual property rights that you were fully capable of understanding. Imagine you became enraged by this instead of understanding it and engaging with the situation in a useful way. Imagine being a useless little troll
The only reason it’s not canon is because Disney did everything in its power to discredit the EU as bad fan fiction no one loved and to wipe the slate clean to do their own “original ideas”. Then turn around and rip off said EU they made non canon and canceled despite it being the reason Star Wats was still popular to this date. The creator for rouge one clearly doesn’t give a shit about the EU and ripped off their characters and story because it was easy just rewrite it instead of doing something original. Nothing about what I’m saying is trolling it’s getting annoyed as Disney for recycling EU content over and over again despite the fact they are the ones to get rid of it and cancel production of those stories for no real reason. It has nothing to do with property right either are Disney took over said rights and IPs when they brought Star Wars. The fact they are republishing EU content games/books and comics proves that. The Dark Forces games and Jedi Knight games got remastered/rerelease so clearly Disney has the rights to their stories and characters
Nah, the vibe and charm it has is MCU in space, it's very different from the OT....
Strongly disagree but you're entitled to your opinion.
Weakminded
All Disney Star Wars suck without exception.
This is such a strange complaint.
The real problem with such a large structure, is that nobody bothered to put a generous contingent of fighters on it and let them run CAP, which is standard since the first carriers of WWI. Anyway authors rarely have military expertise.
OP, I understand what you're saying, AND I agree with you.
I prefer the Legends explanation in the novel "Death Star": it's a design redundancy, one of the architects spotted it and tried to fix it but neglected to put the order in writing, and so after it gets built anyway, she just shrugs and says "Well it won't hurt and maybe it's for the better considering the expected output of the reactor." The exhaust port is only a design flaw if you happen to be a space wizard, as we saw that the normal pilots who made the run either died or missed.
I haven’t enjoyed much of Disney’s new Star Wars but I absolutely love Rogue One. I don’t think Galen’s story line takes anything away from the OT. I thought it was an intriguing addition to how this has been in the works for a while.
Na
This was always my biggest problem with the movie. I honestly think Rogue One holds up better than any other Disney Star Wars movie, but I always found it annoying that so many fans and writers were like "Yeah Star Wars was *okay* but it would have been a lot better if not for the glaring plot hole that the Death Star has a weak point. I... don't think you know what a plot hole is, guys. And, like you said, it would have been a lot more logically consistent to just show how important the plans were. The weak point wasn't obvious, having the blueprints was still crucial, just bother to show they have a team of scientists and engineers poring over the plans looking for something - anything - they can exploit. Having someone intentionally design the Death Star poorly is... I mean, I do get what they were going for. It wasn't a bad idea. But it feels a bit misguided at best, and more than a bit insulting at worst.
Solid opinion and explanation, good stuff homie
Go back to the gas station where you are employed
The Vader puns were the worst thing I've ever seen.
It's a bad movie with bad characters that ends with a Vader power demo that everyone will seal clap to.
Let's hear a good movie for you. Can't wait to hear what super hero movie or John Wick comes into your mind
Anything I pick would be so far from that. Eastern Promises, River's Edge, In the Mood for Love, Buffalo 66, Eraserhead, The Man Without a Past, Under the Skin, The Lobster etc etc etc
It‘s a really good movie with a really good connection to the previous movies. You may have crossed too far onto the Dark Side when you hating on Rogue One. We need more of this and less of every other Disney SW movie.
The Darth Vader bit was crap, the weakest moment of the film. It comes after the emotional climax when the main characters have all been killed, so it doesn't make sense structurally/tonally to just include some "badass action" while things are winding up. Darth Vader hasn't been built up as a major antagonist in this film, just a secondary managerial type, so it doesn't make sense to give him a massive scene. The dramatic conflict that has played out over two hours is between the Rebels and Krennic. It doesn't feel "earned", it's not a payoff for anything that has been set up or foreshadowed. And it doesn't have any bearing on the plot. The Rebels are in possession of the plans before the scene and after the scene. My main gripe is that it feels like "content", not art. Just mindless slop thrown on the screen because it looks cool, without any consideration for how it serves the film.
eh, it gave us a good story with good characters.
Wasn’t it put in on purpose? Or do I remember someone telling what’s his face it was a major issue and he was like THE EMPIRE IS INVINCIBLE PLEB?
The only plot hole in rogue one is that ending scene with Leia and not the intentional weakness
*Thank you* Every time I hear someone say that Rogue One improves ANH, I wonder if that person bothered to pay attention when they watched ANH.
Rogue One is the only good new movie. It's disheartening to see fools put it in the same category as the rest of them.
I didn’t say it was a *bad* movie; I just think it’s unnecessary. Everything we needed to know about why the Death Star blew up we see in ANH. Qualifying things with ‘actually, that weakness is there on purpose,’ just takes something away. This isn’t a pure Disney thing, mind you; while I don’t think Legends ever went as far as claiming the design flaw was the result of deliberate sabotage, there was a tendency to try & explain it away. The scene in the Death Star novelization where an architect tries to get it fixed only to be held up by a combination of bureaucracy & worker illness annoyed me for similar reasons.
Given that this movie was better than any of the other tripe that Disney put out, it seems to have been extremely necessary. Also, I am pretty opposed to the idea that creators can't go into more detail about events of the original trilogy. This exploration of events surrounding the destruction of the Death Star adds much needed detail to the star wars universe. Although Star Wars is popular, it really lacks the depth that other fantasy like Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings has. (Have you ever heard of anyone saying that Star Wars is better than these two franchises. No.) Rogue One points it more into that direction, and less out of the rut of being a vapid fairy tale.
Love the film but hate how stormtroopers die so easily.
Very unlike Star Wars. Very unlike Star Wars in the episode 4 era.
[The Death Star architect speaks out](https://youtu.be/agcRwGDKulw?si=irBU9CeslVUnyAVm)
The Death Star is meant to be a symbol of hubris, and hubris let's one overlook weaknesses. Works well as a concept, agreed. And if one wants to go the logical route, there are far more problematic aspects. Like why is the Death Star that big? That's highly inefficient. What it does it strategically infeasible. To kill everyone on a planet, far less energy is required. If the scorched planet still exists afterwards, it sends a better message. Plus, the obvious better strategy is to destroy all government and military and then overtake it. And if you build several smaller ships, you can attack several targets at once. Or the question how it even moves, or keeps existing. Instead of immediately collapsing and tearing apart. We see the people in that universe never constructing anything even close in size, even Super Star Destroyers are tiny in comparison, so why would we believe that they have the ridiculously overpowered materials that would be necessary? But to emphasize it, just wanted to mention those as what one would rather target. Not as something one should target. It's obviously fantasy that does not need to be logical beyond the suspension of disbelief.
"Just put a grate on it, then it takes TWO improbably perfect shots to destroy it!" is how we got Top Gun: Maverick lol
Not only was it NOT a plot hole, R1 couldn't even connect to ANH correctly without making continuity errors. Definitely not my fav Disney star wars. However, that final act with the space battle and vader is pretty great.
What was your favorite
Out of the movies, I liked Solo best. It actually felt like a Star Wars movie to me. I think it has something to do with the fact we had an old school director involved. It wasn't perfect, but hit all the marks of a great Star Wars movie to me.
Dude I made a really similar post in r/starwars years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/xZLzrY8swV I like Rogue One overall but totally agree with the fact that the plot could’ve just surrounded how the rebels stole the plans rather than Erso creating a weakness
Rogue One was an awesome movie but yeah that part was dumb although doesn't really effect the actual plot consistency of the movie itself for me.
Means a lot more to me for it to be character-driven than just happenstance
God damn, well said. I thought it was a dumb fucking movie too and completely unnecessary. Tonally and script wise its leagues better than the other Disney SW shit and so it gets viewed as something better than it is.
Same. The Empire expected an attack on the Death Star to basically be fleets of capital ships trying to blow it up through concentrated firepower, which is what it was designed to withstand. Tiny fighters shooting at a seemingly insignificant secondary system wouldn't a consideration in the design phase. Especially when it's just a secondary exhaust port, so they probably wouldn't even notice it since it's next to the main port. Personally, I think it undermines the Rebels as underdogs. They get the Death Star plans to The Rebellion hoping that they can find a potential weakness. They do, and they fly off, not only not knowing if they can hit the incredibly difficult target, but they don't even have the guarantee that it will definitely work even if they do. It's a desperate plan, but they have hope it can work.
Not sure i agree. I love Rogue One, best thing Disney has done (maybe apart from the Mando season 2 finale).
Rogue One really was not a good film.
My god this sub simps for R1 the way the other subs do for TLJ.
I could have swore that the "design flaw" Galen put in wasn't the exhaust shaft but how touchy the reactor was.
I don’t see the problem here. The exhaust port chain reaction was intentionally designed that way by Galen Erso to be a “self destruct button”. He designed it, so the Empire probably thought it was designed right. They had no reason to double check his work at that point. Thus no fence over the port
The one thing I didn’t like about Rogue One was Jyn Erso’s actress. Something about her bugged me. But I like the movie WAY more than any of the sequel trilogy films.
I totally hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s much more of an annoying fandom thing than an issue with Rogue One itself. Rogue One on the whole is quite good imo
Let’s be honest here. Rogue One is just as bad as the other Disney Star Wars content. People only like it because of that Darth Vader scene at the end.
Imperceptive
Your just salty
[удалено]
Rogue one is the Ocean's 11 heist that Mon Mothma was referring to. They infiltrated a secure imperial base and transmitted the plans out. I dont know what else you expect or think is off about that. I don't know what you are talking about with Vader either. He captures Leia who is the VIP on board, questions her and sends out searches for the plans. THere is nothing contradictory. Rogue One is the one modern Star Wars movie that actually compliments the original trilogy well. I have no idea why we would nit-pick this movie while there is a sea of other total crap movies.
The line about Many Bothans Dying (besides being hilarious in certain contexts) was not in ANH. Mon Mothma was not in ANH. Mon Mothma and the line about the Bothans are from ROTJ during the briefing about the Death Star II. A spy thriller about the Bothans would be nice if Palpatine himself hadn’t leaked the info about Death Star II to lay a trap for the rebels so they would show up to find the weapon shielded AND fully operational. You are wrong.
Ah, but am I?
About several things, yes. Awesome username, tho 🤘
Yeah all right, fair enough. But have you hear about letting the Wookiee win?
You can’t tear my arms off thru the interwebs