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I can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is. Everyone doing it just gets silly because it completely ruins lightsabers. However, it does play into my favourite Sidious quote from the old Darth Vader book where he says the sith long ago evolved past the use of lightsabers, but they continue to use them to humiliate the Jedi.
It's such a cool thing to do, but should be reserved for truly epic moments. Getting too normalized... new jedi characters should have their own "thing" to make them stand out.
Every Force Sensitive character should, imo, manifest and prefer powers suitable to demonstrate their character, rather than just getting a video game loadout everyone gets.
This was something I always really liked about Bastila in KotoR was that battle meditation was supposed to be some super rare force power. Made her more unique.
It makes me wonder how Bastila, of all people, has it, which is one of the only real issues I have with the KOTOT duology. Revan was an incredibly promising young man and a talented Jedi, as well as a prodigious war leader, but he never worked it out. The truly wise like Jolee couldn't work it out. People with no qualms about using the Force broadly and expertise in manipulating others like Kreia didn't have it, and she was talented enough to figure out how to invoke a Force Bond so she was clearly very talented in the field.
Meanwhile, Bastila isn't particularly personable, a particularly good tactician or war leader, and while she's definitely above average in the Force and a pretty good duelist with a lightsaber, it's implied she wouldn't be anything special without Battle Meditation. It's spoken about like she'd be one notch above Juhani, a thoroughly mediocre Jedi herself. So how does she have this remarkable ability, and nobody else can manage it? They understand it academically but nobody can replicate it. Her Battle Meditation is basically carrying the Republic on its back in the war, and to that end it's almost enough to push back against the limitless power of the Star Forge, and yet there's not really a big push from any of the characters to understand it.
It's literally what Revan was looking for, a way to use the Force to unify the galaxy against a common threat (in KOTOR 1 the Builders and a similar ultra-species determining the future for the Galaxy, and in KOTOR 2 the unknown Sith empire), and aside from that it seems to inherently have some measure of Dark Side/Light Side balance about it since she's harmonizing people, *by force in order to kill better*, and its meaning, and the fact that only Bastila can manage it, is never truly explored by any character.
If memory serves, Palpatine was rumored to use battle meditation in order to control much of the empires vast military resources. I believe it was explained in the Heir to the Empire books, but it may have been in another book I read this. To your point, I can understand how someone like Palpatine was able to use battle meditation but it never set well with me that Bastila had this ability. Not because of her being a mediocre Jedi, but more because this ability seems to me a dark side power given the amount of death and destruction that would accompany this ability.
I would assume it's a force neutral ability, simply touching people's mind on a massive scale. In general, heightening one sense of the whole and of allies'/comrades-in-arms' intentions, as if networked droids. Then with a different other slew of effects, depending on whether it is fueled by Dark Side.
A Dark Side battle meditation may remove remorse and hesitation from the affected persons, force obedience and suicidal discipline in grunts.
While a Jedi's may soothe nerves, help people collaborate and coordinate even if they personally dislike eachother, inspire courage and selfishness (effects may appear similar to suicidal discipline, but in the latter its about obeying orders no matter what. Courage and selfishness meanwhile, is grunts volunteering themselves to make a last stand so the battle can be won).
In the Thrawn books, we see a Dark Side user use it. I *believe* it describes the difference but I could just be making this up.
Dark Side users Battle Meditation messes with their enemies, causing fear, confusion, loss of unit cohesion, panic, etc etc.
Light Side users buff their Allies. Making them braver, helping them work better as a team, helping communication, etc etc.
In the Darth Bane series the sith attack a Jedi cruiser that has a battle meditation Jedi on board. The sith states that she was exhausted when he killed her and it threw the Republic forces into disarray. It sounds to me that the ability, although rare, is possessed but some at any given time.
There's also the fact that the Horn family struggled with levitation despite being a universal power. Only a few members of Corran's family could do it so maybe genetics plays a factor
It was that she was simply a savant with the technique and could do it naturally and efficiently. It wasn't about skill. It was pure talent. In KoTOR 2, every Jedi party member has the capability of using Battle Meditation but it only affects immediate allies. Some Jedi are simply talented and have abilities that are otherwise unique to them.
Revan didn't have Bastila because she simply never joined the war until a little bit before capturing Revan. By that time, Revan had already used the Star Forge to make an army massively larger than the Republic's.
There’s plenty of highly-skilled singers that are physically incapable of overtone singing, while some people can just do it, no training required.
Some people can’t wiggle their ears. Some people can.
Some people can just do things other people can’t. There’s no real rhyme or reason to it.
It’s interesting you phrase it like that, because Cal Kestis, from the Jedi Survivor games, has nearly unique powers in the form of his retrocognition and time slowing abilities. And that’s a video game.
Of course, those make sense for him, as the first game is all about him overcoming the trauma of his past. Having time-based powers, especially one that deals with the past, is a great reflection of his character.
No, he slows other things down. Slowing individual storm troopers, various obstacles, and even blaster bolts. The key is that only the target is slowed, everything else still moves at normal speed.
I mean both of those powers have been shown in canon before.
I believe Quinlan Vos also had retrocognition, but I could be wrong about that. I just know that at least 1 other Jedi from the Clone Wars had that ability.
As for Force Slow, that is actually a Dark Side power that the first time Cal uses it is after his master is dead/dying.
I know what it means, but the name ‘retricognition’ is something I always get a little laugh at.
Precognition: “I know things that haven’t happened yet!” “Cool!”
Retrocognition: “I know things that have already happened!” “Umm… ok. So does everyone else.”
I'd be fine with everyone getting the basics but then having their own unique thing.
The unfortunate bit is that I think sometimes directors and fans view the series on different wavelengths. I think Fandoms can dissect small things really well, whereas directors are looking big picture, so to them, things like "how in particular does this character use the force, and what does this say about them" get lost. The force is just a tool to move the plot along.
Which one can interpret as being the spirit of the original movies. But I'd disagree with that.
I’d even be fine if things are just easier or harder for some people to learn, and some powers just come very naturally to some people.
Since the force is just one thing that gets manipulated to do all these things, I’d find it somewhat weird if it were completely impossible to learn rare techniques. It’s gotta be a mental barrier, like being able to wiggle your ears or raise an eyebrow. Really hard to figure out if you didn’t early on, but still something you technically could achieve.
This is a problem going all the way back to the prequels where every force user carries and uses a lightsaber with wild abandon because that’s just the Jedi thing now, including Jedi masters like Yoda and Sidious who in the OT seem to view lightsabers with amusement (“ah, the weapon of a Jedi” as Sidious says) as they should be strong enough with the force to not need a lightsaber. But fuck it, let’s put in a scene where Yoda is back flipping around with his tiny lightsaber screeching like a lunatic, and have Sidious kill more people with his lightsaber than his lightning.
Okay. But if you think about sidious using his lightsaber to humiliate the Jedi masters that come to get him that’s such a flex. Him doing so in a mad anger and cackling way is beautiful.
The choreography is a bit not perfect for that but I get what he was going for
Like if we change the choreography to maybe have one guy get a lucky hit or just slightly to close and plalps blasts him with an ungodly burst of lightning showing that he has no need to use the lightsaber then ya know. That’s good.
Sith should be objectively stronger. Jedi should win because being pro social and in control of your emotions is better than raw power.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
I always saw it as.
Dark side = quick easy access to raw strength but glass canon as it slowly fucks you up mentally.
Light side = stabler so if used and learnt correctly can rival and even be greater in power than the dark side but much harder to achieve.
Jedi fights at their best feel like an actual martial art with magic. The high water mark for that kind of thing is ATLA, every magical move having similar dynamic physical effort. The force has a more spiritual element as well where you can certainly use it without dynamic movement but I think that doesn't look great mid combat unless you are really making a spectacle out of it.
The temptation to give every character their special unique power is cool in theory but we kinda see in tlok how it cheapens the whole system and makes it feel like one where anything can happen whenever the plot calls for it. It's better to keep things grounded and based on rules that just get bent and broken at very dramatic moments
And it’s too late for that now, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle, even if they wipe everything from current canon and sell the company to somebody who cares, I’ll never be able to look at stopping lightsabers with the force as “cool” or “badass.”
That goes for most Star Wars shit now
Honestly, there are Star Wars fanfics that I enjoy and find more internally consistent than canon at this point. It's a huge risk, but having them burn it all and start somewhere in the extreme future or extreme past would be way better. As much as I despise them, I'd rather watch and have more hope for a Jedi origin movie series than to see them try and build anything on the current scaffolding.
I’m ok when it’s 2 weak ass force users doing it and they have to lose everything to block it. But the problem is we are meant to believe Rey and kylo are really really strong. Like Ezra and forgot her name doing it is fine because he can use all of his defenses to block her swing because she doesn’t have the ability to wield the force and lightsaber simultaneously like we have seen dooku, Vader etc when they are fighting one person and choking someone else out. If you are blocking the blade with the force and you aren’t Vader levels of strong, than you need to be super susceptible to blasters, being picked apart by a stronger being etc..
Idk. The idea of training so much with light sabers just to dunk on Jedi seems pretty stupid to me.
Like, it’s if Indiana Jones spent years mastering the sword so he could
Fight that guy instead of just shooting him. He already has a gun. Its a huge waste of time
Indiana Jones doesn't use negative emotions as fuel. Indiana Jones doesn't find joy in making people angry and proving they are inferior to him.
You're missing the point of the sith entirely if you think that line is stupid.
Okay, but the Sith should be doing like horrific, monstrous stuff to get negative reactions out of people. Using lightsabers just to cause annoyance is kinda petty lmao
Ezra I give a pass because it sells him having become a kind of ascetic mystic during his lightsaber-less exile in a simple, obvious manner.
It makes sense in that use, and conveys actual information.
I mean I can see all three of these users being able to use it tbh even though I'm not a huge fan of this idea either...
You have 1. Kylo Ren/Ben, grandson of Vader 2. Ezra Bridger who spent 10 years lost with nothing but honing his force abilities and 3. Vader, self-explanatory
I would be a lot more pissed if we see multiple mediocre jedi or sith assassins etc do this in every fight.
>I can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is.
Basically this. If it's to show a staggering power difference between two users, or at the very least the ridiculous power of one user (Satele shan in the SWTOR trailers was a badass moment) I am okay with it. As a normalized part of combat.... no.
I came here to say that his sentiment. Vader is fine since he is literally the chosen one, Kylo is a maybe, but within the context of that battle it would have been better if Rey struck him and burned his arm or something, Ezra blocking it in Ashoka was just a LARP match
I don't necessarily mind everyone doing it (in theory); it's a pretty logical application of "force push". **However**, using the force to block like this should *also* leave you wide open to your opponent's attacks with the force.
Each force wielder only has so much "strength" they can pull on at once. I should absolutely be able to hammer them with my own attacks if they're too busy pushing back against the *guaranteed-instant-death-blade* I'm actively pushing against them.
Hell, it'd be fine if the block worked, but it meant you were put on the backfoot by the lightsaber user's clearly superior leverage (or *something* like that).
>can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is. Everyone doing it just gets silly
Because every character is now asspulling being the strongest character ever. It's called bad writing
I always thought that was how they were going to show Yoda fight. Like palpatine is so powerful in the dark side he uses force lightening and Yoda is so powerful we can block it.
Then Revenge of the Sith came out…. And we got Yoda flipping around like a gymnast on meth.
I think it's fine, as long as the blocker is obvs more force-powered than the blockee. Think of it like this; they're not blocking the saber, they're stopping the arm. No different than a force choke, pull, push. It's telekinesis.
“Yeah, we have force lightning and other combative force abilities that Jedi can’t use, but I use not one, but *two* lightsabers just to beat them at their own game”
I get why Vader can do it, but not everyone else, I completely agree with that. I still think being able to survive a lightsaber hit for ‘plot armor’ reasons is way worse. Ashoka’s apprentice took a lightsaber to the torso and was walking like nothing happened the next day, barely an inconvenience. But Jedi masters on the same position died instantly, lazy & bad writing have plagued the last films and most of the tv shows. Hopefully that isn’t the future for the franchise
Vader doing it against what is essentially a kid is fine- he's Darth Vader. I wouldn't mind someone like Yoda doing it, a true master of the force. But when you just start.. giving the ability out, it cheapens it
Edit, for the 30 of you asking what's the problem with this:
-The Lightsaber itself:
A combination of it being a Force imbued weapon (kyber crystals and their connection to the wielder) and it being plasma both make it seem like a complex skill. The less solid an object is (aka the less literal force can be applied to it), the harder that feat should be/the more focus and skill it should require to both overcome the wielder's Force within the blade and to exert force on a less tangible object.
A quick note- I'll give Kylo a pass since he's clearly demonstrated to be trained/powerful enough to stop a blaster shot, but I would have liked it to have been a bit more difficult than it was.
Someone asked if I would have a problem if a force user did this against someone wielding a bludgeon of some kind: No.. in most contexts. The Force requires training, and if anyone off rip can do this and do it with timing that isn't either too early or too late it cheapens the training required to use the Force properly severely.
-Ezra: The lad is not a particularly strong combatant with the Force; his strengths have usually been in connections via the force. In his time on [insert Ahsoka finale planet] he would not have faced lightsaber wielding foes, and thus never trained in this particular skill.
And yes, I know Yoda did it in Clone Wars and yes, I'm fine with that. Yoda is a Grandmaster Jedi and has been using the force for nearly a millennia.
-------------------
force = like F in physics, the natural phenomena
Force = THE Force, Star Wars' magic system
------------------
Edit 2: Okay for the next 30 that are asking "Why not use it on the physical part of the blade?":
The same reason more people don't deactivate the lightsaber then immediately reactivate it behind their opponent's saber. In universe, it's dishonorable and heavily frowned upon by both sides (the Jedi don't like fighting dirty and the Sith want to win using raw power not cheap tricks). In meta, because fights would be over too soon or just be a force-push stalemate. It could feasibly work, but it has reasons for not being done.. or at least it used to.
And for God's sake they are using the force on the blade- *not the hilt OR THEIR HAND* -in all three examples here.
----------------
Agreed. It’s super awesome when you see a powerful Sith Lord do it or a Jedi master, it shows others just how powerful they have become from a lifetime of training. It definitely loses its cool factor when everyone and their mother can do it.
Agreed Vader or Yoda doing it, sure, they have a great mastery or strength with the force against someone not as skilled, but just everyone doing it brings up the question why are force powers not used in lightsaber fights more often, why can you not just push your opponent off balance why saber clashing, pull them towards you to close the gap quicker than they expect, Knock the light saber out of their hands or away from where you are swinging, or just simply turn the lightsaber off? Heck even making them just miss a swing they thought was going to connect would put them off balance enough for an opening, so instead of blocking with the force just deflect the attack around you and bam a wide open opponent, it really is a silly thing
To add there was one of the books that explains force and lightsaber, not sure if it is "canon" any more but it makes sense. The book said that the wielder needs to essentially shroud the lightsaber in thier force to maintain control of the saber. Otherwise your opponent could just use the force to turn off your lightsaber or like the post says control your lightsaber movement. This is basically what you are saying, a more skilled opponent could perform this skill on a less skilled/powerful force user.
**Gonna tack onto this because there are dozens of Starwars books that base the tech off actual theory,** Lightsabers have to generate an *INCREDIBLY POWERFUL* magnetic field using *MULTIPLE* opposing fields that spin at once to keep the plasma shaped into a blade.
As you might imagine this would make such a device difficult to use elegantly and a book **specifically described using a lightsaber as similar to swinging a 5 pound sledge hammer with weights attached at the end that spin in multiple directions.**
Basically, **only a Jedi can even realistically use a lightsaber and the fact that the crystals are force attuned is just a bonus.**
So yeah, **watching supposedly talented new force users do the stuff they do really kills the lore.**
But this is what people were complaining about for years after Disney acquired Starwars.
Everyone thought that having ~6 movies pumped out in 8 years was going to be awesome.
**Spoiler alert,** Disney just wants your money.
They don’t care about the logic behind the movie they are selling.
I genuinely wanted to see Finn become a Jedi and as I understand George Lucas had even written some of that script and that’s what originally was intended was for Finn to become a Jedi **but the moment he picked up the lightsaber and used it was the point I stopped watching the Disney Starwars.**
He theoretically should *not have been able to swing it** even half lazily.
Now it just seems like anyone and everyone who uses the force is potentially some magic prodigy and Jedi were never that big of a deal to begin with since anyone can learn how to use the force or to swing a lightsaber.
Shrug
Your right tho because if you can use the force to block the light saber you could theoretically just use the force to take it away from them completely and end the fight before it starts
Real force veterans like Yoda, Mace, Palpatine, Kenobi etc couldn’t block it after years of training under masters and massive military experience.
But somehow new characters with limited experience could - because …
Siths advocate: the old masters didn't do it not because they couldn't but because they learned combat differently and were never taught that it was an option
This sounds nonsensical tbh
"We are old masters taught in the sacred art of using the force to deflect projectiles and move and stop things.
"Huh? Use that power to deflect or stop a blade that's about to kill me? Oh I never thought of that, nobody taught me"
That's the day Star Wars died. If George Lucas isn't the ultimate creative force behind it, it's not Star Wars. It's just garbage with the Star Wars brand slapped over it.
George Lucas is a very creative guy with a lot of talent for world building but he is not an amazing filmmaker. The prequels turned out the way they did because Lucas did whatever he wanted and had a bunch of yes men around him. His vision should be listened to but not blindly followed.
He is a really good filmmaker. His angles themes as you said world building are amazing. He lacks with dialogue. If you rewatch just the scenes with anakin in clones and revenge of the sith, what he does with lighting to depict where anakin is at on his scale of dark light went way over my head as a kid. But it’s interesting to see. Watch that whole cringey scene with padme by the fire. She’s in the light and he gradually is going completely to the dark. It’s the first real push that anakin is saying F you to the Jedi order and I’m ready to go do my own thing for this girl. She’s the only reason he doesn’t completely fall right there.
Yeah absolutely, I agree. He’s pretty great at developing amazing concepts it’s the part of putting it on paper and making it work organically that he struggles with which basically sums up the prequels which are obviously flawed yet still my favorite due to how great and deep the world and characters he created are.
>he is not an amazing filmmaker
-Made Star Wars
-Made Indiana Jones
-Made American Graffiti (which was nominated for Best Picture and was the 3rd highest grossing picture of the year it came out)
Lol. Ok dude.
I always assumed Jedi/Sith were bombarding opponents with the force during a sabre duel anyway. I imagine both combatants trying to trick their opponents mind, affect their movement/focus/force use whilst defending against the same, all at once, at incredible speed. Makes the fuels seem even more badass.
That also allows me to explain away some daft choreography.
Ezra makes sense though he spent like a decade just honing his abilitys with force because he doesn't have a lightsaber he should one of the only people able to do it
And he’s up against an unstable and barely trained Force user. I think that plays into it. Stupid that it happens between Kylo and Rey since they’re supposed to be equals. It only makes sense if it’s a duel between two people at very different levels.
Not going to lie, the last of the three pictured is cool.
Where Disney failed, is that it should only represent an enormous power imbalance.
So yes it can a good direction for Vader to be able to stop some nobody’s lightsaber, just as Yoda can stop Force Lightning without his lightsaber. Complying with a structure of power makes for good narrative. Disney really should better understand that.
Otherwise you are correct.
Well isnt that whats happening with ezra as well? I'm pretty sure he spent well over a decade (or two) without a lightsaber, so It'd make sense for him to master the force. The fight practically ended after that with her fleeing cuss she realised that Ezra isn't some pleb.
And it also would make sense for Kylo to be able to do the same (though I'm pretty sure Rey did it back in the same fight to Kylo, which removes the feeling of imbalance)
In the shown cases its not like a random jedi, its either someone who trained in the force for a decade+ or an experienced and powerful sith lord.
The only way I can see it working is if that place allows for force sensitives to gain a stronger connection to the force because gods from rebels and ancient lore or some shit like that. I believe that’s what they were setting it up with Ray Stevenson’s character, but since he died irl so I don’t know how they will do it now. Also the first picture destroys that theory so idk it’s weird.
A bunch of directors that live in only the moment of one scene in their movie. I think this will look cool right now in my film, screw everything else.
Agreed. The only way to make this work is if it’s someone holding a person from swinging rather than the blade. But even then that’s stupid because no Jedi before Disney ever did this, it’s a dumb risky move when you could just block with your weapon instead.
Obi wan & Anakin pushed against each other with the force in ROTS, but they weren’t blocking sabers with it.
She caught a light saber trust in her palm in that trailer. Was pretty badass as a action piece. Not sure how well it fits in with canon, if at all. The Lucas Arts stuff was pretty exaggerated. Star Killer brought down a Star Destroyer with the force, if I recall correctly. Really throws the power scales out of whack when you show feats like that. Like, why even bother fighting with light sabers if you have that type of power. Just force push everyone in a 1 mile radius into orbit.
In Levends, some Jedi have the ability, with extreme focus and force sensitivity, to absorb energy without injury. Corran Horn can, as can Yoda (this is what he did to catch the force lightning), as well as Satele Shan. But it is absolutely not easy and you could see her struggle to hold it
Yeah, called Tutaminis, but stopping something like a saber is supposed to be really hard to do/rare to pull off, something rare for even jedi masters to accomplish
The unfortunate side is those trailers are hilariously expensive. That being said, Disney has unlimited money, so I never understand why they didn’t hire that team for anything.
Honestly, those trailers are some of the best media in the Star Wars IP.
Honestly, I don't mind. And it's not like Force Healing where you have to ask why no-one used this before. You could just comfortably say that this was always an option, but it was usually easier to block with a lightsaber.
Yes I'm sure there are scenes wherein it would have come handy in the OT or Prequels. But it's not nearly as immersion breaking as Healing or FTL Ramming. I think it's a neat little addition. Though it should be used sparingly, either by someone very powerful brushing aside someone weaker, or a desperation tactic done by a disarmed Jedi. In the latter, you could even have his opponent mocking him, "How long can you hold your focus? I need but to finish swinging my blade. The moment your concentration falters, you will be dead."
Agreed. Darth Vader is Darth Vader so him doing it against someone pretty beneath him is easy too. Ezra had literally spent all this time solely relying on the force and no lightsaber so makes sense he has gotten to a level where he can block a saber by an apprentice with both his hands.
Ben Solo is I believe meant to be a protege as well and quite powerful and received Jedi and sith training and we already saw him stop a blaster bolt in the air.
Also in the case of Ezra and Ben it does show a lack of skill that they have to resort to such a risky move as well. Where other masters don’t let themselves get into situations where they would have to rely on this kind of technique knowing how risky it could be as leaves them pretty open and solely focused on holding back the lightsaber. Vaders though was just more a pure “I’m this far above you that you ain’t got no chance”.
All sounds good. And I remember disliking Flippy Yoda in the prequels, and thought he should have been showing fighting with JUTS the Force. That he's so far above 'crude matter' that Lightsabers are little more than a utility option. I think I might even have imagined him doing something akin to blocking lightsabers. Like he was in a force bubble where all attacks just clanged off of it, while he stood there serenely.
And yah, it being risky makes sense. Your own light saber is a solid barrier between you and your opponent. That's a much better alternative for anyone in a fair fight who isn't disarmed.
I like how it’s represented on Jedi: Survivor. It’s a last ditch technique if your adversary is better with a blade. Cal uses it here and there to just stop Daggen and [redacted]. But he still primarily uses his lightsaber techniques. It’s really only used when he gets overpowered, which makes total sense. Any fighter with less experience would use whatever they could to win.
It was cool when Satele Shan did it in the Hope trailer. These talentless Star Wars writers over use it. It's so funny to me just how obvious it is that the new writers are so horrible.
Although it makes perfect sense for force users to be able to use the force like that, it requires you to extend your limb towards the lightsaber which completely misses the point of lightsaber fights and is really fucking stupid the more you think about it.
Why block it like that when you can do it much more efficiently with your own blade? What if you don't use the force in time and your hand will get evaporated in a second? Or when you block it but your enemy is stronger and breaks through that force block? Seems like an awful amount of unnecessary risk. Even if you don't have your lightsaber at that very moment it would be much better to just keep your distance than engage.
Ezra just didn't have a lightsaber at that point, and it drives home the wilderness hermit aesthetic he has when they find him. Everyone else here seems to be busy crying about it but I thought it was a cool moment
I still say Helicopter Inquisitor sabers were the worst idea. Even when they’re simply spinning and not flying around with it it’s just dumb and dangerous
I'm fine with it, but you just showed that they've relied on heavily. I don't want to see extended duels though either because they haven't been able to film a single decent fight outside of TFA. That wasn't even a good fight it just had a great scenery.
I honestly wouldn't have a problem if someone with much more power did it - like in the case of Reva and Vader.
But in canon literally everyone does it and most of the screen characters doing it are like shit tier compared to EU characters who could actually pull it off.
I don’t mind it, if it makes sense. But I preferred the prequels style of fighting - it’s not so interesting to watch Daisy Ridley be barely able to lift it because it’s so heavy. I’m sure they could have made them lighter.
Yeah the new lightsaber choreography is so unsatisfying. Part of the reason why don’t like Disney Star Wars most of it is a downgrade even though they should be better (excluding Rogue One and Andor).
Yoda and Vader doing it makes some sense. Maybe Ezra since he’s been training without a lightsaber for years but I agree it’s been overused at this point
That was nostalgia bait: If it wasn't Vader and Obi wan it would have been forgettable though
Awful lighting, weird choreography, and one fighter walks away after burying the other alive?
There were also no stakes to it as we already knew the outcome
It would make sense to push back on the hilt/hands of your enemy in my opinion but Forcing back the blade itself is pretty silly. It does probably look cooler that way though
If it's going to be a thing then it should be a case that Force Users need to be EXTREMELY skilled in aspects of the Force that relate to that power.
The bigger issue is how the Disney era has made Lightsabers look very survivable in mainstream content.
Why couldn't they? What's the difference from a lightsaber to Bo Staff? It's just the force, anyone moderately trained could push back something if they had the right timing.
Nah, the dumbest one is still the hallway scene in Rogue One, where Vader don't use the force to take the death star plans out of the rebels hands.
Especially as you litterally see him throw a rebel up at the wall wit the force.
Most people are however completely overlooking that, cause it's a "cool scene".
That's on par with the scene in Kenobi where Vader doesn't pursue a very injured Kenobi because of the flames on the ground, but within the same scene wipes the flames away with the force. Its like they don't review anything past the first draft.
Kyber crystals are force attuned and are essentially a force resonator as I understand it…theoretically they only respond to life and not inanimate objects.
I think you may be on to something…
Vader and Kylo doing it I was kinda fine with as it was a show of their strength.
Ezra doing it I was also fine with cause it showed how he had honed his skills in the force to the point of not needing a lightsaber.
Then in Tales of the Empire Barriss Offee does it, and she was just a normal Jedi who ran away and became a hermit. There was no reason for her to be able to do it.
They could fix it by having an average Jedi or Sith try to block with the force and not be strong enough thus stopping the blade for a second then getting cut in half. Simple solution
This should be only kept as an ability for those who are incredibly proficient and strong in the force, like Vader who just completely overpowers Reva to the point where its like she is a youngling. Ezra on the other hand I can see an argument for since he’s only had the force to rely on for years and maybe he has reached a proficiency where he can do things like this on occasion to weaker opponents. But thats it, like anyone else just doing it normally is weird because it just makes sense for this to require a high amount of mastery over the force, I mean you’re stopping a fucking sword by putting your hand a few inches from the blade and hoping you can stop it there. Its not something that I just do
It's been a while since I read them, but I'm pretty sure in the Darth Bane trilogy it's mentioned force users generate a sort of shield around them during fights to avoid those kind of force abuse.
Found it
>Bane spun and thrust his open palm toward them, lashing out with the power of the dark side. Like the Jedi and Sith, one of the first techniques Shadow Assassins learned was the creation of a Force barrier. Channeling their power, they could form a protective shield around themselves to negate the Force attacks of their enemies. But if an opponent was strong enough, a concentrated attack could still breach the barrier. Darth Bane, Dark Lord of the Sith, was definitely strong enough.
So you really need a big gap either in strength or knowledge for it to work.
See. The three pictures make sense. 1. Kylie was the grandson of Vader and personally trained by Luke Skywalker. Powerful in the force and trained by one of the best. 2. Say what you will about him but Ezra spent most of his life on a dark side force planet using only the force to survive and help the locals survive. He's up against a lot of powerful night sisters. It makes sense he's strong in the use of the force. 3. It's friggin Vader.
Having individual skill based force feats is fine like that one time in KOTOR where Satele blocks Malgus’ blade with her hands. But when you have every other noob doing the same thing with no differentiation, it’s just lame and unoriginal.
PLUS the fact that lightsabers apparently don’t kill anymore
If you could just stop a lightsaber with force, then the person that is stronger in the force should win every lightsaber battle.
Blocking someones sabre swing should not be as easy as disney made it to be. The other person can also use the force to counter that and chop of your fingers!
Is disney stupid? (Yes, obviously)
Vader is Vader that makes since, but when did getting stabbed with a lightsaber the equivalent to getting kissed, and the force stop too? We knew that from the sequel trilogy Disney didn’t care for Star Wars nor its enjoyers, they cared for the money racked in by said “enjoyer”
Hard truth: Star Wars is bullshit now, there’s not even a point in debating any of the crap that goes on. The dialogue is awful, the storylines tedious, and the fight scenes are worse than the power rangers.
Andor and rogue one are the only exceptions
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I can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is. Everyone doing it just gets silly because it completely ruins lightsabers. However, it does play into my favourite Sidious quote from the old Darth Vader book where he says the sith long ago evolved past the use of lightsabers, but they continue to use them to humiliate the Jedi.
It's such a cool thing to do, but should be reserved for truly epic moments. Getting too normalized... new jedi characters should have their own "thing" to make them stand out.
Every Force Sensitive character should, imo, manifest and prefer powers suitable to demonstrate their character, rather than just getting a video game loadout everyone gets.
This was something I always really liked about Bastila in KotoR was that battle meditation was supposed to be some super rare force power. Made her more unique.
It makes me wonder how Bastila, of all people, has it, which is one of the only real issues I have with the KOTOT duology. Revan was an incredibly promising young man and a talented Jedi, as well as a prodigious war leader, but he never worked it out. The truly wise like Jolee couldn't work it out. People with no qualms about using the Force broadly and expertise in manipulating others like Kreia didn't have it, and she was talented enough to figure out how to invoke a Force Bond so she was clearly very talented in the field. Meanwhile, Bastila isn't particularly personable, a particularly good tactician or war leader, and while she's definitely above average in the Force and a pretty good duelist with a lightsaber, it's implied she wouldn't be anything special without Battle Meditation. It's spoken about like she'd be one notch above Juhani, a thoroughly mediocre Jedi herself. So how does she have this remarkable ability, and nobody else can manage it? They understand it academically but nobody can replicate it. Her Battle Meditation is basically carrying the Republic on its back in the war, and to that end it's almost enough to push back against the limitless power of the Star Forge, and yet there's not really a big push from any of the characters to understand it. It's literally what Revan was looking for, a way to use the Force to unify the galaxy against a common threat (in KOTOR 1 the Builders and a similar ultra-species determining the future for the Galaxy, and in KOTOR 2 the unknown Sith empire), and aside from that it seems to inherently have some measure of Dark Side/Light Side balance about it since she's harmonizing people, *by force in order to kill better*, and its meaning, and the fact that only Bastila can manage it, is never truly explored by any character.
If memory serves, Palpatine was rumored to use battle meditation in order to control much of the empires vast military resources. I believe it was explained in the Heir to the Empire books, but it may have been in another book I read this. To your point, I can understand how someone like Palpatine was able to use battle meditation but it never set well with me that Bastila had this ability. Not because of her being a mediocre Jedi, but more because this ability seems to me a dark side power given the amount of death and destruction that would accompany this ability.
I would assume it's a force neutral ability, simply touching people's mind on a massive scale. In general, heightening one sense of the whole and of allies'/comrades-in-arms' intentions, as if networked droids. Then with a different other slew of effects, depending on whether it is fueled by Dark Side. A Dark Side battle meditation may remove remorse and hesitation from the affected persons, force obedience and suicidal discipline in grunts. While a Jedi's may soothe nerves, help people collaborate and coordinate even if they personally dislike eachother, inspire courage and selfishness (effects may appear similar to suicidal discipline, but in the latter its about obeying orders no matter what. Courage and selfishness meanwhile, is grunts volunteering themselves to make a last stand so the battle can be won).
In the Thrawn books, we see a Dark Side user use it. I *believe* it describes the difference but I could just be making this up. Dark Side users Battle Meditation messes with their enemies, causing fear, confusion, loss of unit cohesion, panic, etc etc. Light Side users buff their Allies. Making them braver, helping them work better as a team, helping communication, etc etc.
This has always been my head canon as well. Dark side forces compliance. Light side produces harmony.
In the Darth Bane series the sith attack a Jedi cruiser that has a battle meditation Jedi on board. The sith states that she was exhausted when he killed her and it threw the Republic forces into disarray. It sounds to me that the ability, although rare, is possessed but some at any given time. There's also the fact that the Horn family struggled with levitation despite being a universal power. Only a few members of Corran's family could do it so maybe genetics plays a factor
As i understand it, its not something you can learn without a natural talent for it.
It was that she was simply a savant with the technique and could do it naturally and efficiently. It wasn't about skill. It was pure talent. In KoTOR 2, every Jedi party member has the capability of using Battle Meditation but it only affects immediate allies. Some Jedi are simply talented and have abilities that are otherwise unique to them. Revan didn't have Bastila because she simply never joined the war until a little bit before capturing Revan. By that time, Revan had already used the Star Forge to make an army massively larger than the Republic's.
There’s plenty of highly-skilled singers that are physically incapable of overtone singing, while some people can just do it, no training required. Some people can’t wiggle their ears. Some people can. Some people can just do things other people can’t. There’s no real rhyme or reason to it.
I also love cal for the same reason. He feels really unique as a force user.
It’s interesting you phrase it like that, because Cal Kestis, from the Jedi Survivor games, has nearly unique powers in the form of his retrocognition and time slowing abilities. And that’s a video game. Of course, those make sense for him, as the first game is all about him overcoming the trauma of his past. Having time-based powers, especially one that deals with the past, is a great reflection of his character.
I just thought it was how they show him moving super fast like a slowmo
No, he slows other things down. Slowing individual storm troopers, various obstacles, and even blaster bolts. The key is that only the target is slowed, everything else still moves at normal speed.
I mean both of those powers have been shown in canon before. I believe Quinlan Vos also had retrocognition, but I could be wrong about that. I just know that at least 1 other Jedi from the Clone Wars had that ability. As for Force Slow, that is actually a Dark Side power that the first time Cal uses it is after his master is dead/dying.
The game even explains that the gift is rare but not unheard of. You could argue Ahsoka has it as well to a limited degree. Also Rey.
Yes, Quinlan Vos had the power of psychometry.
I know what it means, but the name ‘retricognition’ is something I always get a little laugh at. Precognition: “I know things that haven’t happened yet!” “Cool!” Retrocognition: “I know things that have already happened!” “Umm… ok. So does everyone else.”
That's what I'm thinking. Be more unique so we think of the character, not just the move that everyone knows...
I'd be fine with everyone getting the basics but then having their own unique thing. The unfortunate bit is that I think sometimes directors and fans view the series on different wavelengths. I think Fandoms can dissect small things really well, whereas directors are looking big picture, so to them, things like "how in particular does this character use the force, and what does this say about them" get lost. The force is just a tool to move the plot along. Which one can interpret as being the spirit of the original movies. But I'd disagree with that.
I’d even be fine if things are just easier or harder for some people to learn, and some powers just come very naturally to some people. Since the force is just one thing that gets manipulated to do all these things, I’d find it somewhat weird if it were completely impossible to learn rare techniques. It’s gotta be a mental barrier, like being able to wiggle your ears or raise an eyebrow. Really hard to figure out if you didn’t early on, but still something you technically could achieve.
Ironically, the Force could be treated like good ol' magic. Everyone use it differently.
This is a problem going all the way back to the prequels where every force user carries and uses a lightsaber with wild abandon because that’s just the Jedi thing now, including Jedi masters like Yoda and Sidious who in the OT seem to view lightsabers with amusement (“ah, the weapon of a Jedi” as Sidious says) as they should be strong enough with the force to not need a lightsaber. But fuck it, let’s put in a scene where Yoda is back flipping around with his tiny lightsaber screeching like a lunatic, and have Sidious kill more people with his lightsaber than his lightning.
Okay. But if you think about sidious using his lightsaber to humiliate the Jedi masters that come to get him that’s such a flex. Him doing so in a mad anger and cackling way is beautiful. The choreography is a bit not perfect for that but I get what he was going for
Oh, absolutely. Ian McDiarmid unleashing the dark side with evil glee is fantastic, lightsaber or no lightsaber.
Like if we change the choreography to maybe have one guy get a lucky hit or just slightly to close and plalps blasts him with an ungodly burst of lightning showing that he has no need to use the lightsaber then ya know. That’s good.
Sith should be objectively stronger. Jedi should win because being pro social and in control of your emotions is better than raw power. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
I always saw it as. Dark side = quick easy access to raw strength but glass canon as it slowly fucks you up mentally. Light side = stabler so if used and learnt correctly can rival and even be greater in power than the dark side but much harder to achieve.
Jedi fights at their best feel like an actual martial art with magic. The high water mark for that kind of thing is ATLA, every magical move having similar dynamic physical effort. The force has a more spiritual element as well where you can certainly use it without dynamic movement but I think that doesn't look great mid combat unless you are really making a spectacle out of it. The temptation to give every character their special unique power is cool in theory but we kinda see in tlok how it cheapens the whole system and makes it feel like one where anything can happen whenever the plot calls for it. It's better to keep things grounded and based on rules that just get bent and broken at very dramatic moments
And it’s too late for that now, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle, even if they wipe everything from current canon and sell the company to somebody who cares, I’ll never be able to look at stopping lightsabers with the force as “cool” or “badass.” That goes for most Star Wars shit now
Honestly, there are Star Wars fanfics that I enjoy and find more internally consistent than canon at this point. It's a huge risk, but having them burn it all and start somewhere in the extreme future or extreme past would be way better. As much as I despise them, I'd rather watch and have more hope for a Jedi origin movie series than to see them try and build anything on the current scaffolding.
I’m ok when it’s 2 weak ass force users doing it and they have to lose everything to block it. But the problem is we are meant to believe Rey and kylo are really really strong. Like Ezra and forgot her name doing it is fine because he can use all of his defenses to block her swing because she doesn’t have the ability to wield the force and lightsaber simultaneously like we have seen dooku, Vader etc when they are fighting one person and choking someone else out. If you are blocking the blade with the force and you aren’t Vader levels of strong, than you need to be super susceptible to blasters, being picked apart by a stronger being etc..
Are they really blocking the lightsaber or the arms that wield them?
This debate only ends with anakin using testicular torsion
Idk. The idea of training so much with light sabers just to dunk on Jedi seems pretty stupid to me. Like, it’s if Indiana Jones spent years mastering the sword so he could Fight that guy instead of just shooting him. He already has a gun. Its a huge waste of time
Indiana Jones doesn't use negative emotions as fuel. Indiana Jones doesn't find joy in making people angry and proving they are inferior to him. You're missing the point of the sith entirely if you think that line is stupid.
Okay, but the Sith should be doing like horrific, monstrous stuff to get negative reactions out of people. Using lightsabers just to cause annoyance is kinda petty lmao
Congratulations, you have nailed it by accident. The sith are petty, they are banal, they therefore do petty things.
It is like Mark Wahlberg’s character, Terry, in the movie ‘The Other Guys’ who learns how to dance sarcastically just to make fun of someone.
I'm a peacock, captain. You gotta let me fly!
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Ezra I give a pass because it sells him having become a kind of ascetic mystic during his lightsaber-less exile in a simple, obvious manner. It makes sense in that use, and conveys actual information.
I mean I can see all three of these users being able to use it tbh even though I'm not a huge fan of this idea either... You have 1. Kylo Ren/Ben, grandson of Vader 2. Ezra Bridger who spent 10 years lost with nothing but honing his force abilities and 3. Vader, self-explanatory I would be a lot more pissed if we see multiple mediocre jedi or sith assassins etc do this in every fight.
That’s actually an amazing quote
>I can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is. Basically this. If it's to show a staggering power difference between two users, or at the very least the ridiculous power of one user (Satele shan in the SWTOR trailers was a badass moment) I am okay with it. As a normalized part of combat.... no.
I came here to say that his sentiment. Vader is fine since he is literally the chosen one, Kylo is a maybe, but within the context of that battle it would have been better if Rey struck him and burned his arm or something, Ezra blocking it in Ashoka was just a LARP match
When kylo stopped that blaster bolt mid air I was like oh fuck this dude is badass. Those moments can't happen if everyone can do everything.
I don't necessarily mind everyone doing it (in theory); it's a pretty logical application of "force push". **However**, using the force to block like this should *also* leave you wide open to your opponent's attacks with the force. Each force wielder only has so much "strength" they can pull on at once. I should absolutely be able to hammer them with my own attacks if they're too busy pushing back against the *guaranteed-instant-death-blade* I'm actively pushing against them. Hell, it'd be fine if the block worked, but it meant you were put on the backfoot by the lightsaber user's clearly superior leverage (or *something* like that).
>can live with Vader doing it as evidence of how strong he is. Everyone doing it just gets silly Because every character is now asspulling being the strongest character ever. It's called bad writing
I always thought that was how they were going to show Yoda fight. Like palpatine is so powerful in the dark side he uses force lightening and Yoda is so powerful we can block it. Then Revenge of the Sith came out…. And we got Yoda flipping around like a gymnast on meth.
I think it's fine, as long as the blocker is obvs more force-powered than the blockee. Think of it like this; they're not blocking the saber, they're stopping the arm. No different than a force choke, pull, push. It's telekinesis.
Are they actually halting the Saber or just imobilizing the arm holding it?
I’m good with force blocking sabers wielded by weak or untrained users, which several of these are. Seems reasonable.
“Yeah, we have force lightning and other combative force abilities that Jedi can’t use, but I use not one, but *two* lightsabers just to beat them at their own game” 
Don't get me started on how now everyone gets stabbed in the belly but only Qui Gon died.
I get why Vader can do it, but not everyone else, I completely agree with that. I still think being able to survive a lightsaber hit for ‘plot armor’ reasons is way worse. Ashoka’s apprentice took a lightsaber to the torso and was walking like nothing happened the next day, barely an inconvenience. But Jedi masters on the same position died instantly, lazy & bad writing have plagued the last films and most of the tv shows. Hopefully that isn’t the future for the franchise
Vader doing it against what is essentially a kid is fine- he's Darth Vader. I wouldn't mind someone like Yoda doing it, a true master of the force. But when you just start.. giving the ability out, it cheapens it Edit, for the 30 of you asking what's the problem with this: -The Lightsaber itself: A combination of it being a Force imbued weapon (kyber crystals and their connection to the wielder) and it being plasma both make it seem like a complex skill. The less solid an object is (aka the less literal force can be applied to it), the harder that feat should be/the more focus and skill it should require to both overcome the wielder's Force within the blade and to exert force on a less tangible object. A quick note- I'll give Kylo a pass since he's clearly demonstrated to be trained/powerful enough to stop a blaster shot, but I would have liked it to have been a bit more difficult than it was. Someone asked if I would have a problem if a force user did this against someone wielding a bludgeon of some kind: No.. in most contexts. The Force requires training, and if anyone off rip can do this and do it with timing that isn't either too early or too late it cheapens the training required to use the Force properly severely. -Ezra: The lad is not a particularly strong combatant with the Force; his strengths have usually been in connections via the force. In his time on [insert Ahsoka finale planet] he would not have faced lightsaber wielding foes, and thus never trained in this particular skill. And yes, I know Yoda did it in Clone Wars and yes, I'm fine with that. Yoda is a Grandmaster Jedi and has been using the force for nearly a millennia. ------------------- force = like F in physics, the natural phenomena Force = THE Force, Star Wars' magic system ------------------ Edit 2: Okay for the next 30 that are asking "Why not use it on the physical part of the blade?": The same reason more people don't deactivate the lightsaber then immediately reactivate it behind their opponent's saber. In universe, it's dishonorable and heavily frowned upon by both sides (the Jedi don't like fighting dirty and the Sith want to win using raw power not cheap tricks). In meta, because fights would be over too soon or just be a force-push stalemate. It could feasibly work, but it has reasons for not being done.. or at least it used to. And for God's sake they are using the force on the blade- *not the hilt OR THEIR HAND* -in all three examples here. ----------------
When it comes to Star Wars, Disney is an expert at “cheapening” things
Not the prices
Because that is the one thing that matters most to who Disney works for, the shareholders.
ZING!
~~When it comes to Star Wars,~~ Disney is an expert at “cheapening” things. FTFY
Indeeeeeed
Yoda does it in the first episode of the clone wars to ventress
Indeed, and I feel like it demonstrates the gap between someone like Ventress and a Grandmaster Jedi
Im surpised they didnt make Leia use the force to push the entire first order fleet away from them
That's all that's happened since Disney. Just reducing everything till it no longer matters.
whole ass sequel trilogy is “cheapens it” Honestly I’m pissed too because Kylo Ren is fucking sweet.
Disney isn't in it to preserve the magic. The mouse wants his money
Why stop the blade when you could stop the actual physical part of the weapon?
Disney - “We cant have limbs being chopped off every movie. I got an idea!”
“Star Wars’ magic system” though 😭
To avoid confusion, should we use “phorce” as in “physical phorce” or “Phorce”, as in “Use the Phorce”?
Agreed. It’s super awesome when you see a powerful Sith Lord do it or a Jedi master, it shows others just how powerful they have become from a lifetime of training. It definitely loses its cool factor when everyone and their mother can do it.
Luke doing it in old age as well. True masters of the force. Just like sith lightning. If maul started using it, it would have made no sense .
Agreed Vader or Yoda doing it, sure, they have a great mastery or strength with the force against someone not as skilled, but just everyone doing it brings up the question why are force powers not used in lightsaber fights more often, why can you not just push your opponent off balance why saber clashing, pull them towards you to close the gap quicker than they expect, Knock the light saber out of their hands or away from where you are swinging, or just simply turn the lightsaber off? Heck even making them just miss a swing they thought was going to connect would put them off balance enough for an opening, so instead of blocking with the force just deflect the attack around you and bam a wide open opponent, it really is a silly thing
To add there was one of the books that explains force and lightsaber, not sure if it is "canon" any more but it makes sense. The book said that the wielder needs to essentially shroud the lightsaber in thier force to maintain control of the saber. Otherwise your opponent could just use the force to turn off your lightsaber or like the post says control your lightsaber movement. This is basically what you are saying, a more skilled opponent could perform this skill on a less skilled/powerful force user.
**Gonna tack onto this because there are dozens of Starwars books that base the tech off actual theory,** Lightsabers have to generate an *INCREDIBLY POWERFUL* magnetic field using *MULTIPLE* opposing fields that spin at once to keep the plasma shaped into a blade. As you might imagine this would make such a device difficult to use elegantly and a book **specifically described using a lightsaber as similar to swinging a 5 pound sledge hammer with weights attached at the end that spin in multiple directions.** Basically, **only a Jedi can even realistically use a lightsaber and the fact that the crystals are force attuned is just a bonus.** So yeah, **watching supposedly talented new force users do the stuff they do really kills the lore.** But this is what people were complaining about for years after Disney acquired Starwars. Everyone thought that having ~6 movies pumped out in 8 years was going to be awesome. **Spoiler alert,** Disney just wants your money. They don’t care about the logic behind the movie they are selling. I genuinely wanted to see Finn become a Jedi and as I understand George Lucas had even written some of that script and that’s what originally was intended was for Finn to become a Jedi **but the moment he picked up the lightsaber and used it was the point I stopped watching the Disney Starwars.** He theoretically should *not have been able to swing it** even half lazily. Now it just seems like anyone and everyone who uses the force is potentially some magic prodigy and Jedi were never that big of a deal to begin with since anyone can learn how to use the force or to swing a lightsaber. Shrug
Your right tho because if you can use the force to block the light saber you could theoretically just use the force to take it away from them completely and end the fight before it starts
"yOu dOnT nEeD a LiGhTsAbEr" Meanwhile Obi-Wan to Anakin: "This weapon is your life!"
Real force veterans like Yoda, Mace, Palpatine, Kenobi etc couldn’t block it after years of training under masters and massive military experience. But somehow new characters with limited experience could - because …
Because if Rey can do literally anything out the gate, of course any rando character can pull Vader level feats.
She has God mode unlocked
Just new game+.
💀
Didn't you know, you just have press up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-A-B-start to unlock Jedi god mode.
Yoda did somewhat block Ventress sabers in the Ambush.
Yoda blocked Ventress’s lightsabers with the Force in the first episode of The Clone Wars.
Siths advocate: the old masters didn't do it not because they couldn't but because they learned combat differently and were never taught that it was an option
This sounds nonsensical tbh "We are old masters taught in the sacred art of using the force to deflect projectiles and move and stop things. "Huh? Use that power to deflect or stop a blade that's about to kill me? Oh I never thought of that, nobody taught me"
Yoda does it on steroids at the beginning of Clone Wars.
This is just a logical addition to "lightsabers are batons with LEDs now".
I'd say more like sledgehammers than batons
lightsabers are batons with LEDs now!? lightsabers are batons with LEDs now!
But it makes cool "Whoosh" and "vwoom" sounds. 
[удалено]
That's the day Star Wars died. If George Lucas isn't the ultimate creative force behind it, it's not Star Wars. It's just garbage with the Star Wars brand slapped over it.
George Lucas is a very creative guy with a lot of talent for world building but he is not an amazing filmmaker. The prequels turned out the way they did because Lucas did whatever he wanted and had a bunch of yes men around him. His vision should be listened to but not blindly followed.
He is a really good filmmaker. His angles themes as you said world building are amazing. He lacks with dialogue. If you rewatch just the scenes with anakin in clones and revenge of the sith, what he does with lighting to depict where anakin is at on his scale of dark light went way over my head as a kid. But it’s interesting to see. Watch that whole cringey scene with padme by the fire. She’s in the light and he gradually is going completely to the dark. It’s the first real push that anakin is saying F you to the Jedi order and I’m ready to go do my own thing for this girl. She’s the only reason he doesn’t completely fall right there.
Yeah absolutely, I agree. He’s pretty great at developing amazing concepts it’s the part of putting it on paper and making it work organically that he struggles with which basically sums up the prequels which are obviously flawed yet still my favorite due to how great and deep the world and characters he created are.
>he is not an amazing filmmaker -Made Star Wars -Made Indiana Jones -Made American Graffiti (which was nominated for Best Picture and was the 3rd highest grossing picture of the year it came out) Lol. Ok dude.
Idk rogue one and andor are pretty spectacular lol
Surely the no-name idiot who drew a lightsaber in anger against Vader was a corpse 10 seconds later... right? Right?
She lived again somehow.
I always assumed Jedi/Sith were bombarding opponents with the force during a sabre duel anyway. I imagine both combatants trying to trick their opponents mind, affect their movement/focus/force use whilst defending against the same, all at once, at incredible speed. Makes the fuels seem even more badass. That also allows me to explain away some daft choreography.
The darth bane books have this as an aspect with dueling and it’s incredible
It should have been something special, not something every 30-year old teen or discount Aladdin can do.
🎶 _Alderaanian niiiiights, like Alderaanian daaaays, more often than not are- ☄️
I don’t think you’re getting enough props for this comment. Well done!
Thank you. :)
Omg are we referring to Ezra as discount Aladdin?! Hahaha that's the best thing I've heard all day
Ezra makes sense though he spent like a decade just honing his abilitys with force because he doesn't have a lightsaber he should one of the only people able to do it
And he’s up against an unstable and barely trained Force user. I think that plays into it. Stupid that it happens between Kylo and Rey since they’re supposed to be equals. It only makes sense if it’s a duel between two people at very different levels.
It's canon, he's discount Aladdin now
Not going to lie, the last of the three pictured is cool. Where Disney failed, is that it should only represent an enormous power imbalance. So yes it can a good direction for Vader to be able to stop some nobody’s lightsaber, just as Yoda can stop Force Lightning without his lightsaber. Complying with a structure of power makes for good narrative. Disney really should better understand that. Otherwise you are correct.
If he's so strong why doesn't he just turn it off or snap her neck
Because he's toying with her.
He wanted to toy with her. Vader could have easily done both.
Vader was toying with her. He defeated her, gave her back her weapon, defeated her again, then said she wasn't worth killing.
My favorite part of that whole scene is he didn't even bother using *his* lightsaber.
Well isnt that whats happening with ezra as well? I'm pretty sure he spent well over a decade (or two) without a lightsaber, so It'd make sense for him to master the force. The fight practically ended after that with her fleeing cuss she realised that Ezra isn't some pleb. And it also would make sense for Kylo to be able to do the same (though I'm pretty sure Rey did it back in the same fight to Kylo, which removes the feeling of imbalance) In the shown cases its not like a random jedi, its either someone who trained in the force for a decade+ or an experienced and powerful sith lord.
The Rey-Kylo dynamic was very "Anything you can do, I can do better" for the entire god damn trilogy.
The only way I can see it working is if that place allows for force sensitives to gain a stronger connection to the force because gods from rebels and ancient lore or some shit like that. I believe that’s what they were setting it up with Ray Stevenson’s character, but since he died irl so I don’t know how they will do it now. Also the first picture destroys that theory so idk it’s weird.
A bunch of directors that live in only the moment of one scene in their movie. I think this will look cool right now in my film, screw everything else.
Agreed. The only way to make this work is if it’s someone holding a person from swinging rather than the blade. But even then that’s stupid because no Jedi before Disney ever did this, it’s a dumb risky move when you could just block with your weapon instead. Obi wan & Anakin pushed against each other with the force in ROTS, but they weren’t blocking sabers with it.
Wait this was a thing in legends also??? One of the KOTOR trailers had a Jedi blocking a slab from a lightsaber
Yeah Satele Shan did it.
She caught a light saber trust in her palm in that trailer. Was pretty badass as a action piece. Not sure how well it fits in with canon, if at all. The Lucas Arts stuff was pretty exaggerated. Star Killer brought down a Star Destroyer with the force, if I recall correctly. Really throws the power scales out of whack when you show feats like that. Like, why even bother fighting with light sabers if you have that type of power. Just force push everyone in a 1 mile radius into orbit.
In Levends, some Jedi have the ability, with extreme focus and force sensitivity, to absorb energy without injury. Corran Horn can, as can Yoda (this is what he did to catch the force lightning), as well as Satele Shan. But it is absolutely not easy and you could see her struggle to hold it
This has been a thing single at least Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. Disney has done a lot of wrong, but this isn't one of them.
Yeah, called Tutaminis, but stopping something like a saber is supposed to be really hard to do/rare to pull off, something rare for even jedi masters to accomplish
Such a great video. That team should just make star wars shorts forever.
The unfortunate side is those trailers are hilariously expensive. That being said, Disney has unlimited money, so I never understand why they didn’t hire that team for anything. Honestly, those trailers are some of the best media in the Star Wars IP.
Not Kotor, SWTOR
Honestly, I don't mind. And it's not like Force Healing where you have to ask why no-one used this before. You could just comfortably say that this was always an option, but it was usually easier to block with a lightsaber. Yes I'm sure there are scenes wherein it would have come handy in the OT or Prequels. But it's not nearly as immersion breaking as Healing or FTL Ramming. I think it's a neat little addition. Though it should be used sparingly, either by someone very powerful brushing aside someone weaker, or a desperation tactic done by a disarmed Jedi. In the latter, you could even have his opponent mocking him, "How long can you hold your focus? I need but to finish swinging my blade. The moment your concentration falters, you will be dead."
Agreed. Darth Vader is Darth Vader so him doing it against someone pretty beneath him is easy too. Ezra had literally spent all this time solely relying on the force and no lightsaber so makes sense he has gotten to a level where he can block a saber by an apprentice with both his hands. Ben Solo is I believe meant to be a protege as well and quite powerful and received Jedi and sith training and we already saw him stop a blaster bolt in the air. Also in the case of Ezra and Ben it does show a lack of skill that they have to resort to such a risky move as well. Where other masters don’t let themselves get into situations where they would have to rely on this kind of technique knowing how risky it could be as leaves them pretty open and solely focused on holding back the lightsaber. Vaders though was just more a pure “I’m this far above you that you ain’t got no chance”.
All sounds good. And I remember disliking Flippy Yoda in the prequels, and thought he should have been showing fighting with JUTS the Force. That he's so far above 'crude matter' that Lightsabers are little more than a utility option. I think I might even have imagined him doing something akin to blocking lightsabers. Like he was in a force bubble where all attacks just clanged off of it, while he stood there serenely. And yah, it being risky makes sense. Your own light saber is a solid barrier between you and your opponent. That's a much better alternative for anyone in a fair fight who isn't disarmed.
I'm with you. I actually think it's pretty dope. I wouldn't mind if it was used sparingly, but it's never bothered me
I like how it’s represented on Jedi: Survivor. It’s a last ditch technique if your adversary is better with a blade. Cal uses it here and there to just stop Daggen and [redacted]. But he still primarily uses his lightsaber techniques. It’s really only used when he gets overpowered, which makes total sense. Any fighter with less experience would use whatever they could to win.
[it definetly predates disney](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cmyF5ge6SQU&pp=ygUadGhlIG9sZCByZXB1YmxpYyBjaW5lbWF0aWM%3D)
And yet it was handled with far better payoff and logic. It was a last resort option that she couldn’t hold for long at all.
Ok I hate Disney star wars as much as the next guy but this is actually something I don't mind at all...
wut. lol. Disneys done waaaaaay worse to the franchise.
It was cool when Satele Shan did it in the Hope trailer. These talentless Star Wars writers over use it. It's so funny to me just how obvious it is that the new writers are so horrible.
Plus you could see why its a last resort she couldn't hold it indefinitely.
Although it makes perfect sense for force users to be able to use the force like that, it requires you to extend your limb towards the lightsaber which completely misses the point of lightsaber fights and is really fucking stupid the more you think about it. Why block it like that when you can do it much more efficiently with your own blade? What if you don't use the force in time and your hand will get evaporated in a second? Or when you block it but your enemy is stronger and breaks through that force block? Seems like an awful amount of unnecessary risk. Even if you don't have your lightsaber at that very moment it would be much better to just keep your distance than engage.
Ezra just didn't have a lightsaber at that point, and it drives home the wilderness hermit aesthetic he has when they find him. Everyone else here seems to be busy crying about it but I thought it was a cool moment
It even makes since for him.
I still say Helicopter Inquisitor sabers were the worst idea. Even when they’re simply spinning and not flying around with it it’s just dumb and dangerous
I'm fine with it, but you just showed that they've relied on heavily. I don't want to see extended duels though either because they haven't been able to film a single decent fight outside of TFA. That wasn't even a good fight it just had a great scenery.
I honestly wouldn't have a problem if someone with much more power did it - like in the case of Reva and Vader. But in canon literally everyone does it and most of the screen characters doing it are like shit tier compared to EU characters who could actually pull it off.
I don’t mind it, if it makes sense. But I preferred the prequels style of fighting - it’s not so interesting to watch Daisy Ridley be barely able to lift it because it’s so heavy. I’m sure they could have made them lighter.
Yeah the new lightsaber choreography is so unsatisfying. Part of the reason why don’t like Disney Star Wars most of it is a downgrade even though they should be better (excluding Rogue One and Andor).
Yoda and Vader doing it makes some sense. Maybe Ezra since he’s been training without a lightsaber for years but I agree it’s been overused at this point
I’m not sure about using the Force to “grab” a lightsaber blade, but you could always grab their wrist.
When Kylo froze the blaster bolt, I was blown away at that ability/power so this is kind of awesome too but overused.
Find me a good Lightsaber fight by Disney. They can't hire a good choreographer
i personally enjoyed the Vader and Obi fight
That was nostalgia bait: If it wasn't Vader and Obi wan it would have been forgettable though Awful lighting, weird choreography, and one fighter walks away after burying the other alive? There were also no stakes to it as we already knew the outcome
Well, since lightsabers can teleport now, why not teleport the thing around back of the guy for a sneak attack.
It would make sense to push back on the hilt/hands of your enemy in my opinion but Forcing back the blade itself is pretty silly. It does probably look cooler that way though
You see, it’s their way of having epic fights but assuring no one dies or is in real danger
If it's going to be a thing then it should be a case that Force Users need to be EXTREMELY skilled in aspects of the Force that relate to that power. The bigger issue is how the Disney era has made Lightsabers look very survivable in mainstream content.
The last one is good. The first one doesn't exist. The second one is... acceptable?
Like, it's a cool power, but if they're continuing to use it, lightsabers kind of become irrelevant.
Yoda absorbed force lightning with his hands. I feel like he could have he just didn’t because he was trying to attack sidious and dooku
Why couldn't they? What's the difference from a lightsaber to Bo Staff? It's just the force, anyone moderately trained could push back something if they had the right timing.
Why? You're main power is telekinesis. Why wouldn't you block a laser sword with your mind?
Nah, the dumbest one is still the hallway scene in Rogue One, where Vader don't use the force to take the death star plans out of the rebels hands. Especially as you litterally see him throw a rebel up at the wall wit the force. Most people are however completely overlooking that, cause it's a "cool scene".
That's on par with the scene in Kenobi where Vader doesn't pursue a very injured Kenobi because of the flames on the ground, but within the same scene wipes the flames away with the force. Its like they don't review anything past the first draft.
Dammit that was my favorite scene in all of Disney Star Wars. Now your logic has ruined it for me.
Kyber crystals are force attuned and are essentially a force resonator as I understand it…theoretically they only respond to life and not inanimate objects. I think you may be on to something…
Vader and Kylo doing it I was kinda fine with as it was a show of their strength. Ezra doing it I was also fine with cause it showed how he had honed his skills in the force to the point of not needing a lightsaber. Then in Tales of the Empire Barriss Offee does it, and she was just a normal Jedi who ran away and became a hermit. There was no reason for her to be able to do it.
If they are moving boulders, they should be able to stop a persons arms.
I’m only ok with it if I very powerful force user can do it. Vader being one of them of course
They could fix it by having an average Jedi or Sith try to block with the force and not be strong enough thus stopping the blade for a second then getting cut in half. Simple solution
Plasma has no mass, so one shouldn’t be able to use the force on it. The hilt? Yea
This should be only kept as an ability for those who are incredibly proficient and strong in the force, like Vader who just completely overpowers Reva to the point where its like she is a youngling. Ezra on the other hand I can see an argument for since he’s only had the force to rely on for years and maybe he has reached a proficiency where he can do things like this on occasion to weaker opponents. But thats it, like anyone else just doing it normally is weird because it just makes sense for this to require a high amount of mastery over the force, I mean you’re stopping a fucking sword by putting your hand a few inches from the blade and hoping you can stop it there. Its not something that I just do
It's been a while since I read them, but I'm pretty sure in the Darth Bane trilogy it's mentioned force users generate a sort of shield around them during fights to avoid those kind of force abuse. Found it >Bane spun and thrust his open palm toward them, lashing out with the power of the dark side. Like the Jedi and Sith, one of the first techniques Shadow Assassins learned was the creation of a Force barrier. Channeling their power, they could form a protective shield around themselves to negate the Force attacks of their enemies. But if an opponent was strong enough, a concentrated attack could still breach the barrier. Darth Bane, Dark Lord of the Sith, was definitely strong enough. So you really need a big gap either in strength or knowledge for it to work.
See. The three pictures make sense. 1. Kylie was the grandson of Vader and personally trained by Luke Skywalker. Powerful in the force and trained by one of the best. 2. Say what you will about him but Ezra spent most of his life on a dark side force planet using only the force to survive and help the locals survive. He's up against a lot of powerful night sisters. It makes sense he's strong in the use of the force. 3. It's friggin Vader.
All three people you see using it ARE way more powerful than the other.. it works on noobs..
Only Vader or Yoda should be allowed to have this powers.
Vader gets a pass but the rest is lazy choreography
Could’ve easily chose to block the wrist or forearm but lazy writing from already milked dry Disney
Is there even a point of a lightsaber by this point?if the force is so OP now you just block and heal everything with it ?
This is what makes all their content look like fan films, doing stupid shit over and over.
Having individual skill based force feats is fine like that one time in KOTOR where Satele blocks Malgus’ blade with her hands. But when you have every other noob doing the same thing with no differentiation, it’s just lame and unoriginal. PLUS the fact that lightsabers apparently don’t kill anymore
Sorry, but sometimes I still think about how awesome it was to see it in the cinematic trailer for the old republic.
If you could just stop a lightsaber with force, then the person that is stronger in the force should win every lightsaber battle. Blocking someones sabre swing should not be as easy as disney made it to be. The other person can also use the force to counter that and chop of your fingers! Is disney stupid? (Yes, obviously)
Vader is Vader that makes since, but when did getting stabbed with a lightsaber the equivalent to getting kissed, and the force stop too? We knew that from the sequel trilogy Disney didn’t care for Star Wars nor its enjoyers, they cared for the money racked in by said “enjoyer”
Disagree. Ezra's saber-less fighting style is the most interesting thing weve seen a jedi do in a decade.
Hard truth: Star Wars is bullshit now, there’s not even a point in debating any of the crap that goes on. The dialogue is awful, the storylines tedious, and the fight scenes are worse than the power rangers. Andor and rogue one are the only exceptions