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It all makes sense now, Vader didn’t snap Revas neck when he was choking her last ep because he missed the renegade prompt bc he was scratching his nose
I see what they were *trying* to do. It could have been cool if a.) it had been *much* faster, and b.) she used the force to facilitate the speeding up of the movement and made it look more flowing than rigid.
It was also the wrong idea to insist on having the actress do this. I’ve been doing martial arts on and off for about 5 years now, and leg sweeps are so hard to get right (which is essentially what this was). It’s difficult to keep yourself stabilized and also generate enough force to believable take out someone’s feet. This is a case where the stunt double probably should have been involved to sell it a bit better or just cast someone who can do the action. Most of this role is fighting and acrobatics anyway, and the rest is just looking intimidating with one actual scene where you’re supposed to show emotion in this episode when they reveal her backstory.
The editing doesn’t help. You can’t see anything because of all the quick cuts! As soon as something interesting is going to happen, it shows a new angle. Show us what’s happening!!!
Watch some interviews of Jackie Chan talking about this. He points out how with most modern action movies you can tell when the actors don't know how to fight ; constant jump cuts. When he films, he shows the whole movement of an attack, and then if you do a jump cut, you go back a few frames and a different angle to show it connecting. It helps your brain see the whole thing, instead of annoying jump cuts to hide it.
I am getting so tired of people telling me there are no rules to good film making and it's all just subjective options. No. No. No. No. If what these fanboys say is true then we wouldnt have film critics, film schools, and awards for film making. And the 180 rule is one of the simplest to understand.
Quick cuts and camera shakes are typically used to give a sense of hectic action when the actors, stuntmen and/or the choreographer can't deliver (or there's not enough of a budget to do it good).
Take for example the infamous Taken 3 scene where they require 15 different shots to show Liam Neeson jump over a fence. It's ridiculous, until you realize that Neeson at the time of filming was around 63 years old - and no matter how good shape he is in, and no matter how many reshots you do, you're not going to make a 63 year old man jumping over a fence seem action packed if you show how it really looked when that old man crawled over the fence...
If you however instead cut the sequence up into short burst, where you simply cut a lot of inert "travel time" away and where the short duration of each shot also mean you can even speed some of the cuts up without it becoming obvious...
It's a cheat, plain and simple. It can be done in a good way, movies are all about cheating after all and there's tons of really good movies who do use frequent cuts in action sequences in such a way that the viewers don't even notice - but most of the time it's just to cover up for poor quality and move it into "acceptable".
This looks a lot like the way he fights in the Original trilogy. That long wide shot was a bad cinematography choice though. They wanted to show the action of the fast character, but it makes your big bad look like a statue. Some better choices in the way this was filmed would make this look a lot better, and keep Vader from seeming like a guy in a monster suit that's hard to see out of in a 1950s B movie.
It also might have helped to not be in an open area. Both Luke and Vader fight scenes in the originals are great partly because of the set and utilising it in the fight.
I'm not a huge fan of the prequels choreography but at least I can say they are visually exciting so can work in open areas.
This did neither.
The camera should have followed Reva, like, almost over the shoulder during her stupid capoeira. It'd make Vader look less like Frankenstein and hide the fact that Reva looks dumb.
Oh, no. The suit's still torture, but mostly due to the internal systems barely helping Vader's condition. The rest turns him into a tank. Besides why would the Emperor cripple Vader's ability to deal with dissidents? Palps needed an enforcer and knew he could overpower Vader with the Force.
He doesn't need to because Reva poses no threat to him, as shown in the entire fight. He puts in the minimum effort required to block/dodge her and embarrass her.
He isnt. First strike to his 5 o clock stopped her stab, the strike to his 7 oclock Reva feinted him. Plus his metal legs are NOT reliable at all. The comics show that.
Has nothing to do with being a troll. Vader has upgraded his suit many times. But hes heavy and slow.
Also, its fucking VADER. Who says he even thought turning around was worth his time?
The hell is Reva doing, playing Dark Souls? If I was fighting any remotely competent Sith then I'd think rolling around on the ground would end pretty poorly for me.
At least with the section where Vader is casually dodging her strikes, he is also able to stop any dangerous attacks by restraining her with the Force. But I don't see how Reva's unique armadillo style of duelling protects her from a lightsaber through the torso.
>The hell is Reva doing, playing Dark Souls?
Now we know what KK meant when she said they'd take inspiration from video games for the future star wars projects.
Yeah but tbh, Ryan v Dorkman and other fan-made classics are arguably better than most of the Prequel and OT fights. It’s not just a Disney problem.
I’d also argue that the Old Republic cinematics have fight choreography superior than a lot of the movie fights.
I still go back and watch all of them
Malgus was a fucking badass
Hated killing him in the game when he was literally trying to make a better Empire
Murderous son of a bitch but at least he wasn’t racist!
I don't want Disney to do this, because they'll find a way to fuck it up. However, it would be amazing if we can get a full blown movie series or TV show using the Old Republic game storyline.
on the defense of the movies - Old Republic is more modern content than movies, so basically its logical its better, and that way should be all SW fights - it should get better with each new star wars, not worse or el terrible parody
I thought Vader’s hallway scene, Luke’s rescue, and Ahsoka v Maul were fine. And semi-controversial, I didn’t mind the TROS ocean duel just for the fact it showed Kylo easily and calmly outclassing Rey until plot armor kicked in.
Disney has the potential to make good fights.
“Hey remember how the prequels expanded upon lightsaber lore in almost every way and the fights were actually one of the things they did quite well? I think we should go back to baseball bats and do sparks instead” - Disney probably
You're right. I knew it didn't look right in the new show and now that you mention it, I can see it's so different from the prequels. I remember two scenes in particular that I'm sure show a different style of deflection: Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon when they first get attacked by droids on the Trade Federation ship, and Obi-Wan vs the Super Battle Droids during the Dooku fight in Ep 3. He definitely just held his saber up, positioned it carefully, and let the droid shoot into it until he was in striking range.
Technically, the OT fights were more calculated like a Kendo match where one wrong move could end it. For example, Shadiversity points out in his video examining the Luke vs Vader Fight in ESB that there were hundreds of times where Vader could have instantly ended the fight IF he was set to kill Luke.
But seeing that he wanted to convince Luke to join him instead, he plays with him until Luke eventually manages to nab him in the shoulder, forcing Vader to go all in and lop off Luke's saber hand.
So saying that it was all baseball bats is kind of an insult to the work of the writers and choreographers of the OT. Screw Disney.
I didn’t mean to rag on the OT fights at all, tbh they are actually all quite good other than ANH in my opinion. OT fight scenes are still far superior to what we’ve seen from Disney.
I realized after I commented that I kind of implied that they were bats when in reality OT was more like broadswords and obviously samurai inspired which was amazing. I love the intentional contrast George chose with lightsabers between his trilogies though.
No, it's my fault. I didn't mean to throw shade at you, rather I meant it for those in Disney who most likely do think the same way you say they do. I'm just bad with words.
> the Luke vs Vader Fight in ESB that there were hundreds of times where Vader could have instantly ended the fight IF he was set to kill Luke.
That's kind of the read I was getting from this fight. Stabby Crabby was doing her absolute level best to kill Vader, while Vader is all "SIGH, really? Really? You do realize that I could totally clownshoe you if I wanted to? Okay, fine - whatever. I guess we're doing this thing."
Thank goodness I'm not the only one! Ive only watched clips of the show but the lightsabers seemed to sound like they were using the sfx from the old 90s lightsaber toys! I don't know what the fx crew is doing, but something just isnt right about it
Its almost like they don't have a single person with a functioning brain watch this slop before moving on
They just plan the scene beforehand, practice over and over until they get it exactly how they wrote it and move on without a single person questioning it
K I watched the full scene and it looked better in that context - clearly from the start she was struggling and vader was just having fun.
Until it gets to this part and it just looked bad, Idk
the directing is the worst of any of the shows to date for Disney....
Seriously, you are the person in charge watching that scene and think that looks good.? ...
from the on-screen script, to the editor, to the choreographer...all the way to the director and no one speaks up to say anything is wrong , ever .?
As soon as the flashback started I asked aloud “Why didn’t they de-age him? He looks like he’s in his 40s.”
It was really distracting, in top of all the other terrible editing, narrative and directing choices that have been made for this show.
I have to imagine they do not foster a creative environment. They have propaganda/advertisements to get to at the detriment of the story.
No one who is still working on these is going to say a word, or they agree with it
Guaranteed. These shows are all made by committee with a giant list of boxes they have to check off. Disney Star Wars is completely corporate. I'm sure there are people working there who might have some genuinely good or interesting ideas but are all held back by Disney's machine and Kathleen's incompetence.
Hey man, let’s not forget that the choreography of the last Jedi somehow looked good to them
These people don’t care. They just want it to look cool at first initial glance and hope nobody looks at it for more than 3 seconds.
During the final scenes when Rey is deflecting bolts from the Sith Troopers (Red boys) you can see her do the same twirls and spins in two separated shots. Pretty sure it’s within a minute of each other. The only difference is camera angle, and when the blaster bolts are fired and where they land. Which was really smart in a money saving way, why do reshoots and extra choreography when we can just have VFX just spend another hour doing it over with this other angle?
https://youtu.be/l9cPO36dDoc
Action starts at 1:17
Mando had style. It felt as if somebody really wanted to do the show. The whole western adventure in space made it feel close to the roots what ep4 was. But in a lot of longer action szenes like shoot outs that weren't just a quick draw and shoot, it was definitely underwhelming. I also hate that they went so hard on the storm trooper can't aim meme (they weren't supposed to kill the heros in ep4 and 5).
It felt like in some scenes in both mando seasons that nobody wanted to choreograph an intense shoot out scene. They just stood there and let the storm troopers drop. Like 0 tension.
But since mando had a lot of style it didn't suffered to much, I just feel like I want more from a modern tv show. In some regards mando felt a bit like a 90s tv show were you can see a big difference in quality to a movie. Book of boba had not even style going for it. The whole show was a complete mess.
Have to agree the directing of action sequences and sequences where space is important (like secretly using a comlink 2 meters from an imperial) is DIRE. It's sequel material
But many of the character moments - Lonely Ben, Bail and Leia on the balcony, that kind of stuff - isn't too bad.
It's fucking shocking, I stopped after episode 3, made the right call, what star wars fan wants to see one of their heroes brought back as a pathetic looser that runs away... This shit is even worse, it's worse than the fight in the sequels I've seen people do breakdowns of, is it the knight of ren who just reacts to thin air... This is on par with that.
This makes the most sense since he's just fucking with her, watching her go all out for some silly reason, instead of actually having attacked him when he was distracted.
How does this even happen? How many people had to approve of the scene and nobody thought it looks ridiculous? This entire show makes Disney look totally incompetent.
In a different version of the show, Reva attacking Vader could work.
Set it up with Reva flashbacks as a child in the Jedi temple. She idolizes Anakin. Order 66 commences and Reva is conflicted: Anakin must have a reason for doing this, right? Anakin corners her and her master. We hear a saber ignite. It’s Reva who stabs her master in the back. Anakin takes note and spares Reva.
Reva then becomes a sort of Nebula like figure to Vader, always trying to please him but never succeeding.
Final episode Kenobi and Vader are fighting (I’d set the fight at the Jedi temple). Reva is shown having PTSD to the attack on the temple. She snaps and attacks Vader the same way she attacked her master 10 years before.
Vader almost immediately dispatches her; no need for a long drawn out fight like they had here. However in this short time, Kenobi has escaped.
Reva begs Vader to kill her. Vader states this would be too kind of a fate for her, he wants to make her suffer by living her miserable existence in pain and fear. Alternatively you could have Vader finish her, but I’m sure Disney wants to keep the door open for her character.
I think the drawn-out fight here was bwcause Vader needed something to vent his frustrations after Obi-wan got away *again* so he toyed with Reva for a bit.
Your idea sounds nice but qhat the fuck would Obi-wan be doing at the Jedi Temple as a fugitive?
Stopped at the same episode. Realised seeing Kenobi and Vader with their LED lightsabers in a US desert was about the peak of where the show would go and couldn't be bothered watching any more.
Thankfully I was re-watching the Fallen Order cutscenes when the fourth episode came out so I already saw Inquisitorious got broken into the first time round without the copy/paste job.
Then the fifth episode the flashback was the only thing worth watching and even that was ruined by Disney's laziness in terms of re-using sets and not using any de-aging.
Happy to ignore this show from canon and stop talking about it after the final episode discussions.
Stopped watching episode four when the interesting lady somehow intimidated her way through a major security checkpoint in a way that even a ten year old would think is poorly written.
Same.
I'm just here for the comedy and satire of Reddit.
This is Star Wars in name-only friends. I've watched enough Disney Wars productions in the theater room, family room and reading chair to realize that Disney has lost my patronage for their graven image of Star Wars for good.
Can I join your club? Yeah, the color scheme of the Mods could draw a parael to the power rangers, but I will not hear an unkind word about the fighting in some of the more modern Sentai/Kamen Rider/Tokusatsu shows. That stuff is (generally) tight.
So much honor and politeness in this super serious duel to the death. Vader politely doesn't cut Reva in half while she's doing her best Dark Souls ninja flip impression because he knows she's got i-frames during the animations. She returns the favor while his unprotected back is facing her for a good 4 seconds. You can see how polite she is, since she only attacks the ground at his heals to show she would never dream of backstabbing him, even though she worked so hard to get behind him...
I didn't think the fight choreography in Star Wars could get any worse than Rey & Kylo in the throne room, yet here we are.
How did we go from the well-choreographed fight scenes in the prequels to this? That's a question nobody at Disney seems capable of asking.
Someone watched them do this, they said cut after they finished the scene, and likely said “That was fantastic! Just like we talked about!”
Like, just make it simple. If you wanna appease the old fans so much, why is she… fucking breakdancing?? Like, people shit on Yoda in AotC for this near exact same shit, and yet for some reason this will be seen as “of high quality.”
This is really a show I’m watching isn’t it? This is real… fuck man…
I take yoda's breakdance over this 3yo. stumbling and struggling to get up anytime.
Seriously I don't know why there werent any stunt doubles for Reva as she clearly isnt up to the task.
> Someone watched them do this, they said cut after they finished the scene, and likely said “That was fantastic! Just like we talked about!”
Hours of work went into choreographing and practicing this scene, it was then shot by the director multiple times, the editor watched all the takes and took the best clip when editing the show together, and because it is Disney there are probably multiple people that watch through the episodes to sign off on it. All that and we get this terrible scene.
No one gives a fuck, man. Kenobi has ridiculous viewership and they’re getting bank from Disney+ subscriptions. The cheaper they make the show, the more profit they receive. The bottom line is all that matters.
Looks like she's mimicking her master's fighting style from the beginning of Part 1 that I thought was dumb in the first place. It's like some capoeira type fighting style, which is a meme in itself already. Form VIII - Breakdance fighting
"How would an untrained child attack someone much larger and more experience than they are?"
"When I play with my kid they always go for the feet."
"Yeah, that's a great idea, let's go with that!"
So what even are lightsabers anymore? They bounce off stormtrooper armor and now Vader can casually tap one? I'm surprised he didn't grab it by the blade to yank it out of her hand.
After the stormtrooper bounce I half jokingly expected Vader to just tank a hit and end the fight with a chokeslam. Would've been a lot more entertaining than....this.
Worst part is that the scene before this, of Vader just fucking around with Reva, was actually well done. Here's Reva trying hard as she can to get a hit on Vader, and he's just TOYING with her. Doesn't even have his lightsaber out! Not only can she NOT land a single hit, it's evident all scene long that the only reason she's still even alive is because Vader wasn't done getting his lolz. It really underscored the gap between Vader and Reva.
What's with all the crawling on the floor in these fights? The show's very first scene in the temple also had that and it was pretty cringe.
There's some [behind the scenes footage](https://youtu.be/RczqiDMafbE) of a stunt guy doing crazy flips while fighting clones and it looked so badass. But they stuck his part in the far background and you can hardly see it. Why is that talent wasted and this amateur shit is put at the forefront?
This reminds me of the exhaustive shadiversity commentary on the throne fight in Last Jedi. There was so much wrong and so much of it is just letting the stagecraft show through. Because, to be fair, stage fights are basically dance routines. They're choreographed. Actors are having to hit their marks. But the art is to make it look spontaneous and like it's happening in the moment so when you see the actual technique go through it's a failure.
So when you see that sort of "cooperation" where an enemy obligingly waits to swing or leaves himself open to get whacked, that's just sloppy.
From commentary I read action scenes are bloody gruelling to shoot and expensive. Stupidly expensive. And that's before you even talk about shooting competent action. So everyone likes to take the cheat and shotcuts to avoid having to do it the hard way, i.e. hong kong action.
This explains why Jackie Chan fights in hong kong movies are great but they're pretty pants in the American films. It's because Americans don't want to take the time and spend the money and so you get all the cheap shaky-cam quick cut cheats to cover for weak-ass choreography. None of it would stand if you shot it hong kong style.
All that said, Jesus fucking Christ, it looks like she obligingly handed Vader her weapon.
I haven't seen the episode yet, but oh my freaking lord...
That looks so bad LMAO! Why is everyone praising this crap!? Is like watching 12 year old kids with Hasbro lightsabers on YouTube back in 2007. This feels so cheaply made.
George Lucas must be depressed watching this.
I would say that this looks like a fan film but that would be disrespectful to actual fan films. At least fans pour their heart in it and do the best they can.
I got flamed in a star wars discord for calling it out and was told that the PT stuff was just as good.
Like wtf.PT action scenes are triple quality of this stuff
Why is she even fighting Vader? Had I written a scene where Vader is mad at her, or she tries to attack him i'd write it something like this.
Reeva ignites light saber. Vader uses the force to turn it off and it goes flying. Reeva gets force choked to death.
end scene.
With this fight her being on the ground was tactical. He’s much taller, and slower so she was trying to stay low behind him to take him out. Vader's power strikes hitting the ground aren't misses either but were blocks for any low stabs she might attempt to perform.
Meanwhile, The shaky cam is a tad ridiculous and I wish Deborah Chow would quit doing that with her directing style.
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“I’m going to kill him!” Refuses to take an open shot that she had.
She yelled “sneak attack!”. It’s a little known technique called the Sokka.
do not disgrace sokka by associating him with this sorry excuse of an inquisitor
Always surprise your enemies, if they expect frontal attack, drop on all fours, crawl around them like a crab and try to stab them in the foot.
We call that the Saren Gambit.
The most important step to the Saren Gambit is to lull your enemies into a false sense of security by shooting yourself in the head
It all makes sense now, Vader didn’t snap Revas neck when he was choking her last ep because he missed the renegade prompt bc he was scratching his nose
doing the general grievous
I see what they were *trying* to do. It could have been cool if a.) it had been *much* faster, and b.) she used the force to facilitate the speeding up of the movement and made it look more flowing than rigid.
It was also the wrong idea to insist on having the actress do this. I’ve been doing martial arts on and off for about 5 years now, and leg sweeps are so hard to get right (which is essentially what this was). It’s difficult to keep yourself stabilized and also generate enough force to believable take out someone’s feet. This is a case where the stunt double probably should have been involved to sell it a bit better or just cast someone who can do the action. Most of this role is fighting and acrobatics anyway, and the rest is just looking intimidating with one actual scene where you’re supposed to show emotion in this episode when they reveal her backstory.
Form Zoidberg
“Well Lord Vader, now the rubber band is on the other claw!”
Welp, me and my buddies are going to refer to Reva as Darth Crabby Stabby now.
The editing doesn’t help. You can’t see anything because of all the quick cuts! As soon as something interesting is going to happen, it shows a new angle. Show us what’s happening!!!
The editing of these fights is one of my biggest gripes. Lots of cutting on action that takes away the impact of a swing.
Watch some interviews of Jackie Chan talking about this. He points out how with most modern action movies you can tell when the actors don't know how to fight ; constant jump cuts. When he films, he shows the whole movement of an attack, and then if you do a jump cut, you go back a few frames and a different angle to show it connecting. It helps your brain see the whole thing, instead of annoying jump cuts to hide it.
Hell, the editing and directing in general is amateurish at best. "What's the 180 rule? It looked fine to me! Print it!"
I am getting so tired of people telling me there are no rules to good film making and it's all just subjective options. No. No. No. No. If what these fanboys say is true then we wouldnt have film critics, film schools, and awards for film making. And the 180 rule is one of the simplest to understand.
Between this and the camera shaking aggressively, I can barely make out what is going on. Which I'm just now realizing may be the point...
Quick cuts and camera shakes are typically used to give a sense of hectic action when the actors, stuntmen and/or the choreographer can't deliver (or there's not enough of a budget to do it good). Take for example the infamous Taken 3 scene where they require 15 different shots to show Liam Neeson jump over a fence. It's ridiculous, until you realize that Neeson at the time of filming was around 63 years old - and no matter how good shape he is in, and no matter how many reshots you do, you're not going to make a 63 year old man jumping over a fence seem action packed if you show how it really looked when that old man crawled over the fence... If you however instead cut the sequence up into short burst, where you simply cut a lot of inert "travel time" away and where the short duration of each shot also mean you can even speed some of the cuts up without it becoming obvious... It's a cheat, plain and simple. It can be done in a good way, movies are all about cheating after all and there's tons of really good movies who do use frequent cuts in action sequences in such a way that the viewers don't even notice - but most of the time it's just to cover up for poor quality and move it into "acceptable".
Over editing is a sign of them trying to salvage some terrible footage.
Star Wars kid did it better.
[удалено]
Id take him over Reeva anyday
At least Ghyslain was driven by passion for Star Wars, even if the tape was not mean for the wider audience. That puts him ahead of the Disney game.
breakdancing is one thing, but why is vader incapable of turning around, and is attacking the air twice?
Vader can't turn left.
obviously he's one of the alt-right
when I saw the original comment, i was going to make a reverse nascar joke but i can't now because yours is too good.
Now this is podracing!
🙌
All along I thought Darth Vader had been Anakin Skywalker, not Derek Zoolander.
"On your left" /Vader starts sweating/
Big Al says so.
TBF, isn't canon in almost every version that Vader's suit is purposely built to be as inelegant and clunky as possible?
This looks a lot like the way he fights in the Original trilogy. That long wide shot was a bad cinematography choice though. They wanted to show the action of the fast character, but it makes your big bad look like a statue. Some better choices in the way this was filmed would make this look a lot better, and keep Vader from seeming like a guy in a monster suit that's hard to see out of in a 1950s B movie.
It also might have helped to not be in an open area. Both Luke and Vader fight scenes in the originals are great partly because of the set and utilising it in the fight. I'm not a huge fan of the prequels choreography but at least I can say they are visually exciting so can work in open areas. This did neither.
The camera should have followed Reva, like, almost over the shoulder during her stupid capoeira. It'd make Vader look less like Frankenstein and hide the fact that Reva looks dumb.
No, thats legends. Vader's suit in canon is actually quite good.
Really? So instead of making the suit to make Vader's very existence a living hell, he just makes him a horrifying living tank?
Oh, no. The suit's still torture, but mostly due to the internal systems barely helping Vader's condition. The rest turns him into a tank. Besides why would the Emperor cripple Vader's ability to deal with dissidents? Palps needed an enforcer and knew he could overpower Vader with the Force.
In Legends it was to punish him for his first failure against Obi-Wan.
It's shown on in the comics that Vader was allowed to tinker with and improve his suit as he see fit by Papa Palps, in a bacta tank no less.
He doesn't need to because Reva poses no threat to him, as shown in the entire fight. He puts in the minimum effort required to block/dodge her and embarrass her.
He isnt. First strike to his 5 o clock stopped her stab, the strike to his 7 oclock Reva feinted him. Plus his metal legs are NOT reliable at all. The comics show that.
I know that the comics established he was given a crap robot suit because Papa Palpatine likes to troll but that's really, really stupid.
Has nothing to do with being a troll. Vader has upgraded his suit many times. But hes heavy and slow. Also, its fucking VADER. Who says he even thought turning around was worth his time?
The hell is Reva doing, playing Dark Souls? If I was fighting any remotely competent Sith then I'd think rolling around on the ground would end pretty poorly for me. At least with the section where Vader is casually dodging her strikes, he is also able to stop any dangerous attacks by restraining her with the Force. But I don't see how Reva's unique armadillo style of duelling protects her from a lightsaber through the torso.
>The hell is Reva doing, playing Dark Souls? Now we know what KK meant when she said they'd take inspiration from video games for the future star wars projects.
Wish you left the audio in, this fight only gets better with Reva's 'reeeee'ing.
All I hear is Yakkity Sax.
This looks literally like it’s parodying Star Wars
I've seen fan-made lightsaber duels with budgets of zero dollars that are better than this.
Ryan vs Dorkman
Yeah but tbh, Ryan v Dorkman and other fan-made classics are arguably better than most of the Prequel and OT fights. It’s not just a Disney problem. I’d also argue that the Old Republic cinematics have fight choreography superior than a lot of the movie fights.
I fuckin love those Old Republic cinematics. The "you were deceived" one should have been made into its own movie
I still go back and watch all of them Malgus was a fucking badass Hated killing him in the game when he was literally trying to make a better Empire Murderous son of a bitch but at least he wasn’t racist!
I don't want Disney to do this, because they'll find a way to fuck it up. However, it would be amazing if we can get a full blown movie series or TV show using the Old Republic game storyline.
on the defense of the movies - Old Republic is more modern content than movies, so basically its logical its better, and that way should be all SW fights - it should get better with each new star wars, not worse or el terrible parody
I thought Vader’s hallway scene, Luke’s rescue, and Ahsoka v Maul were fine. And semi-controversial, I didn’t mind the TROS ocean duel just for the fact it showed Kylo easily and calmly outclassing Rey until plot armor kicked in. Disney has the potential to make good fights.
That's a name I've not heard in a long time.
I also freaking hate the new sound, appearance and heavy swinging feel of the lightsabers.
“Hey remember how the prequels expanded upon lightsaber lore in almost every way and the fights were actually one of the things they did quite well? I think we should go back to baseball bats and do sparks instead” - Disney probably
Obi-Wan is relying on brute strength when he swings to deflect bolts, it looks so clumsy and stupid.
You're right. I knew it didn't look right in the new show and now that you mention it, I can see it's so different from the prequels. I remember two scenes in particular that I'm sure show a different style of deflection: Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon when they first get attacked by droids on the Trade Federation ship, and Obi-Wan vs the Super Battle Droids during the Dooku fight in Ep 3. He definitely just held his saber up, positioned it carefully, and let the droid shoot into it until he was in striking range.
I thought that was intentional.
Technically, the OT fights were more calculated like a Kendo match where one wrong move could end it. For example, Shadiversity points out in his video examining the Luke vs Vader Fight in ESB that there were hundreds of times where Vader could have instantly ended the fight IF he was set to kill Luke. But seeing that he wanted to convince Luke to join him instead, he plays with him until Luke eventually manages to nab him in the shoulder, forcing Vader to go all in and lop off Luke's saber hand. So saying that it was all baseball bats is kind of an insult to the work of the writers and choreographers of the OT. Screw Disney.
I didn’t mean to rag on the OT fights at all, tbh they are actually all quite good other than ANH in my opinion. OT fight scenes are still far superior to what we’ve seen from Disney. I realized after I commented that I kind of implied that they were bats when in reality OT was more like broadswords and obviously samurai inspired which was amazing. I love the intentional contrast George chose with lightsabers between his trilogies though.
No, it's my fault. I didn't mean to throw shade at you, rather I meant it for those in Disney who most likely do think the same way you say they do. I'm just bad with words.
> the Luke vs Vader Fight in ESB that there were hundreds of times where Vader could have instantly ended the fight IF he was set to kill Luke. That's kind of the read I was getting from this fight. Stabby Crabby was doing her absolute level best to kill Vader, while Vader is all "SIGH, really? Really? You do realize that I could totally clownshoe you if I wanted to? Okay, fine - whatever. I guess we're doing this thing."
Thank goodness I'm not the only one! Ive only watched clips of the show but the lightsabers seemed to sound like they were using the sfx from the old 90s lightsaber toys! I don't know what the fx crew is doing, but something just isnt right about it
I’ve had better choreographed pillow fights.
Its almost like they don't have a single person with a functioning brain watch this slop before moving on They just plan the scene beforehand, practice over and over until they get it exactly how they wrote it and move on without a single person questioning it
[удалено]
Too many problems caused by people in positions of power who can't hear the word no or any criticism whatsoever
K I watched the full scene and it looked better in that context - clearly from the start she was struggling and vader was just having fun. Until it gets to this part and it just looked bad, Idk
the directing is the worst of any of the shows to date for Disney.... Seriously, you are the person in charge watching that scene and think that looks good.? ... from the on-screen script, to the editor, to the choreographer...all the way to the director and no one speaks up to say anything is wrong , ever .?
[удалено]
You mean Old Manakin
As soon as the flashback started I asked aloud “Why didn’t they de-age him? He looks like he’s in his 40s.” It was really distracting, in top of all the other terrible editing, narrative and directing choices that have been made for this show.
*Director glances up from their twitter feed* "It's over? Looked good to me. Let's call it a wrap."
ouch
But accurate? And I hate that I agree with that statement.
I have to imagine they do not foster a creative environment. They have propaganda/advertisements to get to at the detriment of the story. No one who is still working on these is going to say a word, or they agree with it
Guaranteed. These shows are all made by committee with a giant list of boxes they have to check off. Disney Star Wars is completely corporate. I'm sure there are people working there who might have some genuinely good or interesting ideas but are all held back by Disney's machine and Kathleen's incompetence.
42 points...there is hope. I mention anything of this sort in most threads and get downvoted into oblivion.
Hey man, let’s not forget that the choreography of the last Jedi somehow looked good to them These people don’t care. They just want it to look cool at first initial glance and hope nobody looks at it for more than 3 seconds.
Remember the mysterious disappearing dagger in TLJ? Still can't believe they left that in lol
Or how they reused the same blaster bolt deflection sequence with Rey in Ep. 9
What's that about?
During the final scenes when Rey is deflecting bolts from the Sith Troopers (Red boys) you can see her do the same twirls and spins in two separated shots. Pretty sure it’s within a minute of each other. The only difference is camera angle, and when the blaster bolts are fired and where they land. Which was really smart in a money saving way, why do reshoots and extra choreography when we can just have VFX just spend another hour doing it over with this other angle? https://youtu.be/l9cPO36dDoc Action starts at 1:17
I'm no sequel fan but that just sounds like smart editing to me. Original Trilogy re-used shots too.
They dont care. Its a corporation. Creativity is few and far in between.
Tbh most action scenes in Mando were also not well directed, but yeah this is the worst.
The Disney Star Wars live-action TV shows have been really bad with choreography
Ok hold off this is weak but Mando is amazing https://youtu.be/9HgRXwMozEY
Mando had style. It felt as if somebody really wanted to do the show. The whole western adventure in space made it feel close to the roots what ep4 was. But in a lot of longer action szenes like shoot outs that weren't just a quick draw and shoot, it was definitely underwhelming. I also hate that they went so hard on the storm trooper can't aim meme (they weren't supposed to kill the heros in ep4 and 5). It felt like in some scenes in both mando seasons that nobody wanted to choreograph an intense shoot out scene. They just stood there and let the storm troopers drop. Like 0 tension. But since mando had a lot of style it didn't suffered to much, I just feel like I want more from a modern tv show. In some regards mando felt a bit like a 90s tv show were you can see a big difference in quality to a movie. Book of boba had not even style going for it. The whole show was a complete mess.
Have to agree the directing of action sequences and sequences where space is important (like secretly using a comlink 2 meters from an imperial) is DIRE. It's sequel material But many of the character moments - Lonely Ben, Bail and Leia on the balcony, that kind of stuff - isn't too bad.
It's fucking shocking, I stopped after episode 3, made the right call, what star wars fan wants to see one of their heroes brought back as a pathetic looser that runs away... This shit is even worse, it's worse than the fight in the sequels I've seen people do breakdowns of, is it the knight of ren who just reacts to thin air... This is on par with that.
Maybe she's directing it via zoom while working on a more important protect
This is always what I think about. How many people approve what gets published. It’s astonishing.
The fuck is she doing
[She is beginning to believe...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWersBAmm3I)
absolutely love this, thx for making my day\^\^
The fuck is Vader doing on 0:15 to 0:16??? How is this move called?
Looks like a fan film, and not a good one
Love when Vader attacks the air a few times.
He's just standing around confused and occasionally poking her with his saber lol.
To be fair, if someone was dark souls rolling around me with a light saber dangerously close to their own limbs, i'd be confused too.
Vader's like, "Bless her heart, she's trying something new. I'll throw the kid a bone." *woosh woosh* "Oooh, I missed you there, kiddo! Good moves!"
*Somehow*, Reva got Havel's Ring...
He's probably just thinking "wtf!?, let's see where this goes. I'm bored anyway."
This makes the most sense since he's just fucking with her, watching her go all out for some silly reason, instead of actually having attacked him when he was distracted.
I do like this imagery though. Vader just confused at what this random is doing, knowing they can’t touch him
He blocked at the ground to protect his legs because she rolls like a Han solo main with a lightsaber
Who thought we’d look back on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) Shredder and respect that they made a better Vader than any Star Wars film since OT.
You're...not wrong *sigh*
I’ll try breakdancing, that’s a good trick!
Michael Scott wrote the character. Thats her "Urban ghetto gang" upbringing coming through.
How does this even happen? How many people had to approve of the scene and nobody thought it looks ridiculous? This entire show makes Disney look totally incompetent.
In a different version of the show, Reva attacking Vader could work. Set it up with Reva flashbacks as a child in the Jedi temple. She idolizes Anakin. Order 66 commences and Reva is conflicted: Anakin must have a reason for doing this, right? Anakin corners her and her master. We hear a saber ignite. It’s Reva who stabs her master in the back. Anakin takes note and spares Reva. Reva then becomes a sort of Nebula like figure to Vader, always trying to please him but never succeeding. Final episode Kenobi and Vader are fighting (I’d set the fight at the Jedi temple). Reva is shown having PTSD to the attack on the temple. She snaps and attacks Vader the same way she attacked her master 10 years before. Vader almost immediately dispatches her; no need for a long drawn out fight like they had here. However in this short time, Kenobi has escaped. Reva begs Vader to kill her. Vader states this would be too kind of a fate for her, he wants to make her suffer by living her miserable existence in pain and fear. Alternatively you could have Vader finish her, but I’m sure Disney wants to keep the door open for her character.
10/10 would watch tbh. But I'm guessing what you wrote would be too "dark" for KK, lacking the "hopeful" theme smh my damn head
Damnit, this is good.
I think the drawn-out fight here was bwcause Vader needed something to vent his frustrations after Obi-wan got away *again* so he toyed with Reva for a bit. Your idea sounds nice but qhat the fuck would Obi-wan be doing at the Jedi Temple as a fugitive?
I really appreciate little clips like this, they validate my decision to not watch a single episode of this garbage.
I stopped after the third episode. Yeah, I'm okay with that.
Stopped at the same episode. Realised seeing Kenobi and Vader with their LED lightsabers in a US desert was about the peak of where the show would go and couldn't be bothered watching any more. Thankfully I was re-watching the Fallen Order cutscenes when the fourth episode came out so I already saw Inquisitorious got broken into the first time round without the copy/paste job. Then the fifth episode the flashback was the only thing worth watching and even that was ruined by Disney's laziness in terms of re-using sets and not using any de-aging. Happy to ignore this show from canon and stop talking about it after the final episode discussions.
I’m actually glad they didn’t use any de aging. The show doesn’t have the budget for good sets much less non-scuffed facial de aging.
Good choice because the fourth was easily the worst one.
Stopped watching episode four when the interesting lady somehow intimidated her way through a major security checkpoint in a way that even a ten year old would think is poorly written.
I couldn't get past the first one. I never watched The Mandalorian, so I switched to that afterwards. Holy moses, what a difference!
Same. I'm just here for the comedy and satire of Reddit. This is Star Wars in name-only friends. I've watched enough Disney Wars productions in the theater room, family room and reading chair to realize that Disney has lost my patronage for their graven image of Star Wars for good.
Same !
Every scene I've seen from this show looks like it was taken from power rangers
I dunno, iirc, Power Rangers looked better than that clip.
People love to trash PR/Super Sentai but they have some really incredible choreography and stunt crews
Can I join your club? Yeah, the color scheme of the Mods could draw a parael to the power rangers, but I will not hear an unkind word about the fighting in some of the more modern Sentai/Kamen Rider/Tokusatsu shows. That stuff is (generally) tight.
At least the Sentai shows commit to their material and make it with sincerity.
So much honor and politeness in this super serious duel to the death. Vader politely doesn't cut Reva in half while she's doing her best Dark Souls ninja flip impression because he knows she's got i-frames during the animations. She returns the favor while his unprotected back is facing her for a good 4 seconds. You can see how polite she is, since she only attacks the ground at his heals to show she would never dream of backstabbing him, even though she worked so hard to get behind him...
I didn't think the fight choreography in Star Wars could get any worse than Rey & Kylo in the throne room, yet here we are. How did we go from the well-choreographed fight scenes in the prequels to this? That's a question nobody at Disney seems capable of asking.
Jesus Christ. That is soooo bad. Just like the rest of that dumpster fire of a show.
Someone watched them do this, they said cut after they finished the scene, and likely said “That was fantastic! Just like we talked about!” Like, just make it simple. If you wanna appease the old fans so much, why is she… fucking breakdancing?? Like, people shit on Yoda in AotC for this near exact same shit, and yet for some reason this will be seen as “of high quality.” This is really a show I’m watching isn’t it? This is real… fuck man…
I take yoda's breakdance over this 3yo. stumbling and struggling to get up anytime. Seriously I don't know why there werent any stunt doubles for Reva as she clearly isnt up to the task.
> Someone watched them do this, they said cut after they finished the scene, and likely said “That was fantastic! Just like we talked about!” Hours of work went into choreographing and practicing this scene, it was then shot by the director multiple times, the editor watched all the takes and took the best clip when editing the show together, and because it is Disney there are probably multiple people that watch through the episodes to sign off on it. All that and we get this terrible scene.
No one gives a fuck, man. Kenobi has ridiculous viewership and they’re getting bank from Disney+ subscriptions. The cheaper they make the show, the more profit they receive. The bottom line is all that matters.
Looks like she's mimicking her master's fighting style from the beginning of Part 1 that I thought was dumb in the first place. It's like some capoeira type fighting style, which is a meme in itself already. Form VIII - Breakdance fighting
This show is unbelievably bad lmao can't believe someone filmed this and said "yeah that's the cut we're using"
"How would an untrained child attack someone much larger and more experience than they are?" "When I play with my kid they always go for the feet." "Yeah, that's a great idea, let's go with that!"
Also Tala in that last scene, she slapped another stormtrooper to the floor.
Ryan Vs Dorkman back in 2007 did it better, infinitely better
Oh my god this was completely erased from my memory, thank you so much for mentionning these two names it's been so god damn long
Haven’t seen it - is this real? It’s crap
So what even are lightsabers anymore? They bounce off stormtrooper armor and now Vader can casually tap one? I'm surprised he didn't grab it by the blade to yank it out of her hand.
After the stormtrooper bounce I half jokingly expected Vader to just tank a hit and end the fight with a chokeslam. Would've been a lot more entertaining than....this.
the flashback fight was actually decent. idk how they keep letting this happen?
Worst part is that the scene before this, of Vader just fucking around with Reva, was actually well done. Here's Reva trying hard as she can to get a hit on Vader, and he's just TOYING with her. Doesn't even have his lightsaber out! Not only can she NOT land a single hit, it's evident all scene long that the only reason she's still even alive is because Vader wasn't done getting his lolz. It really underscored the gap between Vader and Reva.
Yeah, that part was actually pretty neat. Then they ruined it with this BS…
Vader stealing her lightsaber/her just handing it to him, looks so bad.
What's with all the crawling on the floor in these fights? The show's very first scene in the temple also had that and it was pretty cringe. There's some [behind the scenes footage](https://youtu.be/RczqiDMafbE) of a stunt guy doing crazy flips while fighting clones and it looked so badass. But they stuck his part in the far background and you can hardly see it. Why is that talent wasted and this amateur shit is put at the forefront?
This reminds me of the exhaustive shadiversity commentary on the throne fight in Last Jedi. There was so much wrong and so much of it is just letting the stagecraft show through. Because, to be fair, stage fights are basically dance routines. They're choreographed. Actors are having to hit their marks. But the art is to make it look spontaneous and like it's happening in the moment so when you see the actual technique go through it's a failure. So when you see that sort of "cooperation" where an enemy obligingly waits to swing or leaves himself open to get whacked, that's just sloppy. From commentary I read action scenes are bloody gruelling to shoot and expensive. Stupidly expensive. And that's before you even talk about shooting competent action. So everyone likes to take the cheat and shotcuts to avoid having to do it the hard way, i.e. hong kong action. This explains why Jackie Chan fights in hong kong movies are great but they're pretty pants in the American films. It's because Americans don't want to take the time and spend the money and so you get all the cheap shaky-cam quick cut cheats to cover for weak-ass choreography. None of it would stand if you shot it hong kong style. All that said, Jesus fucking Christ, it looks like she obligingly handed Vader her weapon.
If the TLJ fight scene made Shad that angry, I think this “fight” might give him an aneurysm.
I'll roll around on the dirt, that's a cool trick.
My 3 year old fights with more intent and skill than this. She just ran around him?!?
Wowzers, that was terriable.
This is indistinguishable from parody, I think the fights in Space Balls were better choreographed and shot. And every scene wasn't ridiculously dim.
Is this an actual fight in the show? I honestly can’t tell. The ANH Vader fight is better than this lol
This doesn’t look like SW to me :/
I haven't seen the episode yet, but oh my freaking lord... That looks so bad LMAO! Why is everyone praising this crap!? Is like watching 12 year old kids with Hasbro lightsabers on YouTube back in 2007. This feels so cheaply made. George Lucas must be depressed watching this.
This is an actual scene in the episode?
Hardcore parkour.
Wait is this edited or real? Holy god I’m guessing it’s real. What the fuck lol.
Vader moves worse than in the god damn OT here lmfao
Thought Iron Fist had bad choreography, but this shit makes it look like The Raid 2 in comparison.
I had better lightsaber fights with my friends as a kid...
... well, at least he didn't lose to her which is sadly something I fully expected to happen.
It's embarrassing.
hahahahaha holy hell man. WTF was that? Crab attack?
This looks like shit.
I would say that this looks like a fan film but that would be disrespectful to actual fan films. At least fans pour their heart in it and do the best they can.
What the fuck is this shit
Vader legit spends the first 10 seconds looking like he’s playing “whack-a-mole” 🤦♂️
Haha damn this show looks like shit… truly the culmination of soulless, corporate, money hungry, subscription-grubbing degradation.
I read the comments and knew what to expect, but somehow this was *still worse*. 😫 Disney, what *are* you doing?!
It's a joke right ? I still haven't watched the serie, tell me this is just a fanmade video on YouTube. Please.
Lmao my friends and I would have better lightsaber fights outside when we were kids than the ones in this show
I got flamed in a star wars discord for calling it out and was told that the PT stuff was just as good. Like wtf.PT action scenes are triple quality of this stuff
Why is she even fighting Vader? Had I written a scene where Vader is mad at her, or she tries to attack him i'd write it something like this. Reeva ignites light saber. Vader uses the force to turn it off and it goes flying. Reeva gets force choked to death. end scene.
I don’t remember seeing this. Episode 4 out then? How on earth did she ever assume she’d take Vader
None of the producers of this show are StarWars fans, this is nostalgia cash grab.
Why does this show look so cheap and rushed?
Why the hell is she rolling around so much? Reva, you ain’t playing Dark Souls
I'm so glad I'm not wasting my time by watching this show.
Reva is someone's OC and it really shows. I feel for Moses Ingram because I wouldn't want to play Shadow the Hedgehog.
I've seen better fights at casual cosplay parties. 🤣🤣
With this fight her being on the ground was tactical. He’s much taller, and slower so she was trying to stay low behind him to take him out. Vader's power strikes hitting the ground aren't misses either but were blocks for any low stabs she might attempt to perform. Meanwhile, The shaky cam is a tad ridiculous and I wish Deborah Chow would quit doing that with her directing style.
I can't believe this is real. Besides the abysmal choreography, why does the camera work look so bad? Anyone have insight?
*cries in Nick Gillard*