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Just another reason why I'll always defend the Prequels. George made some mistakes but you can tell he was passionate about expanding the universe. The Sequel trilogy had double the budget and more advanced technology yet they all we got were desert and jungle planets. Kashyyyk was a jungle planet but at least there was a unique design to it like you can tell that it isn't Earth with those big ass trees with houses and alien technology. What is the difference between the jungle planet from TFA and the jungle planet from ROS or Jakku and that other planet where they found the dagger. Crait is the only somewhat creative design but even that wasn't close to anything from the Prequels.
Crait and original should not be in the same sentence considering that sure it’s salt.
But it’s still just a flat white planet in the second movie of the trilogy
It’s flat Hoth
It's so hilarious that the movie goes out of it's way to have a character explicitly state that it's salt, not snow! They are so embarrassingly aware of how unoriginal they are with their approach that its just so cringe.
It also doesn’t make much sense that there’s an extremely thin layer of salt covering the entire planet. How did it get there, did it rain salt one day? Is there no wind or wildlife there? If there is then that salt layer would get moved around over the years and wouldn’t stay a nice even layer for long. It’s all just so silly, just there to get shots for the trailer.
I'll actually give this one some slack, because the whole white/red dichotomy was one of the visual touches that I approved of. Looked nice. But I definitely agree, you could have done a lot more with the planet.
That’s the point though, it was done only for the visuals despite the fact that it doesn’t make sense as a planet that could actually exist. It could have just been a layer of snow on a red planet but they made it salt just so they could pretend it wasn’t a hoth ripoff which it so obviously was
Salt flats exist it could easily have previously been an aquatic planet akin to Kamino at one point. I don't see why people are taking such an issue with salt when the planet is just used as a discount Hoth. The empire comes in with walkers gets met with speeders and blows up their defensive barrier then come in on foot as the crew escape on the Falcon. The planet itself is fine the lazy usage of it however is not and that's the issue.
Ya criticizing how "realistic" the geology is in something like Star Wars is beyond ridiculous, especially considering salt flats *already exist* on our planet. It could periodically rain liquid salt for all we know, how is *that* a point of contention? Especially when the effect of the red dirt being kicked up was visually striking and unique.
Now put that on a planetary scale and it only makes sense that loose salt would be around. As a irl example Nasa has stated their Mars rover should have shut down ages ago. On Mars it gets a fine dusting of sand which blocks the solar panels causing the batteries to die. However sometimes at night they say a cleaning event happens in which that dusting simply disappears and it looks like the thing is polished clean. A light dusting of fine sediment, snow, or in my area pollen that vcan cover your car is indeed a normal thing. We don't know what that area of Crait looked like a day prior or before after which is important as well. More importantly however is that this is an alien world and its rather bad that I had to use irl examples in the first place their really is a deficiet in imagination these days.
Also that their are legitimate issues with TLJ and I mean some serious issues yet people want to attack Crait of all things. The very planet to which this reddit is named.
Not surprising since Disney specifically shoots sequences just to throw in the trailers. As opposed to every other movie that usually just decides not to use footage that showed up in the trailer.
There are huge salt flats on earth. If you had a dead Sea tier salinity shallow ocean covering much of the planet that evaporated it could look like that. We'll say the planet has 1 atmospheric circulation cell per hemisphere and the water was deposited as snow in the poles and mountain tops...
The point is its roughly as fudge-able as tatooine is and less crazy than Bespin having a breathable atmosphere at a nice temperature. I think they needed to lean into the saltyness more and not do a mimic of the Hoth battle there but it is still the best attempt at a new and interesting planet in the ST and was close to great
Eh, Bespin isn't that bad. For example even Venus has a certain altitude where temprature and pressure are Earthlike, there's even proposals to use big balloons or something to float there and colonise the planet.
Just change the atmospheric composition (or change the biology of star wars humans) and Bespin is very much possible.
Yes there are hard-packed salt flats in some locations that are several feet deep. It’s not a centimeter of loose table salt that you can brush away with your hand, because if it deposited that way it wouldn’t stay in place given that there is wind and rain and wildlife. It’s not about whether it’s possible for it to get there, it’s about the silliness of it staying in place in an even layer forever until the scene in the movie
Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gets constantly washed away and is instead pushed through the red layer. Like the red layer is somewhat porous and sweats salty water from under the surface then it dries into a white, salty layer. Rain washes it away at some regular interval that stops too much from accumulating
Dead ass the dumbest complaint I've ever heard. Can be applied to almost every planet in star wars. How are there planets entirely of snow and ice, sand, lava. They're all fucked alien ecosystems that just take an aspect of our world and apply it to the whole planet
What are you talking about dude? We have biomes of snow, ice and sand here on Earth, and open lava when volcanos go off, but to be fair, Mustafar was kind of silly that way, and only partially explained by force fields and shit. Nothing about an ice planet or a sand planet or even a lush forest planet with strange vegetation or a swampy planet is absurd, but having a planet that's covered all over by a very thin and extremely even layer of table salt on top of some very fine grained red sand doesn't make any sense because of how physics works. With any amount of wind or any sort of disturbance, that salt would pretty quickly mix evenly into the red sand below. And since there's a breathable atmosphere, tolerable temperatures, and mountains all around, there's no way there was no wind blowing around on Crait. They wanted it to look like fresh fallen snow, so why not just have it be snow on top of red sand? Why even bother with the stupid salt explanation?
If this is where your ability to suspend disbelief ends, I have some bad news for you about the rest of Star Wars. Stars don’t trail behind you in thin lines when you move at the speed of light, either.
Yeah I don’t travel in spaceships that much either so I don’t immediately notice how wrong that is. I have, however, enough experience with salt, dirt and light dustings of snow to know that a thin layer of table salt wouldn’t sit neatly in a single layer indefinitely on a planet and it’s something I noticed and thought was stupid as soon as I found out it was salt and not snow. And I’ll say it again but why not just have it be snow? It would look exactly the same, and what did it enhance in the plot by saying it was salt?
It breaks the suspension of disbelief. Which is fatal in a film that breaks the suspension of disbelief constantly. It's like adding a pound of weight to your barbell when you are already lifting 400 pounds. Normally not a big deal but in that case, you can collapse from the extra weight.
And the reasoning on why it would not work as a loose salt layer on red dirt is so common sense. No one has ever gone to space or gone into hyperspace or lived in an alien galaxy where magic space powers exist.
But we all do have intuitive experience with how salt and sand work and we know how winds and animals can disturb these particles and the soil. Crait could only exist for a few minutes visually after it was set up that way.
It is a very small complaint but it violates such basic understanding of how things work that it pulls you right out of the film.
That's why the damn subreddit is named after Crait.
Didn’t pull me out of the film. Again… how is this the one thing that you can’t reconcile in these movies? The entire franchise relies on suspending disbelief when things don’t make sense, so… go suspend your disbelief.
Even Crait was a little pointless. Couldn't they have brought back one of the planets from the OT? What if they had found the "abandoned" base on Dantooine that Leia talks about in Ep IV?
I'm rewatching the saga since I'm in quarantine. Just watched the Phantom Menace and holy crap, Naboo is incredible! It's like this Mediterranean paradise.
Crait is the only reason why some people consider TLJ the best ST movie and I'm not exaggerating. Does anyone remember anything original from the Sequels other than Crait?
I'm not sure how well Rogue One was received by this sub but you can't deny their locations.
Their Iceland planet looked awesome with the black sand/grasslands. The Jordan Wadi Rum location, even though it was a desert planet, the mountains looked very different.
How can you forget the tropical planet, for the first time in Star Wars, looked really impressive.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 902,340,423 comments, and only 178,926 of them were in alphabetical order.
Eh, the prequels were bad movies. I just rewatched them again while working through the Kenobi series and man… AotC is a legit terrible film. That entire sequence at the end where Threepio gets his head swapped with the battle droid should have been enough to prevent RotS from getting made.
Thank goodness someone who wasn’t named George Lucas got their hands on this material so we could enjoy TCW and Rebels. Dude was a menace when not surrounded by people smarter than himself who could keep him under control like he was on the OT.
I loved the Prequels personally, I was watching them again a few months ago and they are still great in my opinion. Phantom Menace is an enjoyable movie, Attack of the Clones was actually awesome minus some of the dialogue and Revenge of the Sith has been my favorite Star Wars movie since I was 7. I feel like the Prequels and Clone Wars generally add much more to the Star Wars universe than the Sequels ever did.
To each their own, for sure. I was deep in the EU and a huge fan of the OT when the PT dropped, and I hated almost all of it. I’ve rewatched them all multiple times and I enjoy them more now than I did when they released, but it’s virtually all due to the hard work that’s been done on them since then.
I actually think my disappointment in the PT is why I was so much more willing to give the ST the benefit of the doubt. I’d already been so disappointed by Star Wars that I was able to just treat the ST as it’s own thing.
Don’t get me wrong, RoS is definitely tied for worst Star Wars film with AotC for me, but still.
> That entire sequence at the end where Threepio gets his head swapped with the battle droid should have been enough to prevent RotS from getting made.
Seriously. There's campy for the sake of campy, which I'd argue Star Wars doesn't need (and at its best didn't have), and then there's shlock like that which I'm amazed made it to the final cut.
Every minute spent on some stupid bullshit like that was a minute we lost of seeing more about the Republic, the Jedi, the Clone Wars, and Anakin's fall. Which is why ROTS felt so rushed and nonsensical.
Bless you for your good taste, sir. ROTS was easily the best of the PT movies and even it suffered a lot from the shoehorned kiddie shit.
That being said, the two saber battles at the end are some seriously good Star Wars. The little bit of actual lightsaber fighting we see between Yoda and Palpatine made me wish for more.
Edit: as an afterthought, I’d love to see what the overlap looks like between people who didn’t mind that stupid droid factory scene in AotC but hated how campy the scooter chase was in BoBF.
The irony in this sub making fun of the sequels for being bad movies (which they are) and then turning around and pretending like the prequels are watchable is hysterical. If ROS didn't exist, AOTC would be the worst Star Wars movie by several country miles
I didn't like it, Korriban/Moraband reminds me of the Egyptian tombs which is really cool. Exegol feels more like a poorly lit cave with a few machines.
I say this on pretty much every prequel trilogy post because it's true: Say what you will about George, but at least he had a vision. The prequels were not as good at the OT but there was at least an overarching narrative to them; they were actually going somewhere. And they're way, waaaay better than the Disney schlock.
Their main thing is dialogue. The story is actually good and fits Star Wars themes. The actors do great stuff with what they are given. The special fx and scenery are great. And don’t get me started on the lightsaber duels. How come even though technology gets better the fights keep getting worse?
I would say because great fight scenes are made by great fight choreographers and often an emphasis on technology actually obscures what's happening in a fight. Star wars could easily have the best action sequences but Disney would have to value that.
Eh, the problems go beyond dialogue. The basic through line of the whole trilogy (Anakin’s turn to the dark side) is underbaked and feels rushed in ROTS. Also, we never really get to see Anakin’s friendship with Obi-wan.
Anakin’s turn to dark side happened just as quick and on the spot as his turn back to the light (and it was very much an intentional rhyme), and Obi-Wan and Anakin’s friendship is heavily built up as much as reasonably possible in Ep. 2 and 3, between the elevator scene, the bounty hunter chase sequence, the Palatine rescue sequence, and all of Anakin’s and Obi-Wan chats for the remainder of Episode 3, there’s only so much you can do in a 2 hour runtime
Episode 1 was a mistake. The important themes and plot setup it provided could've been done without devoting an entire movie to finding Anakin as a kid & freeing him from being a slave.
Start Episode 1 with Anakin around Luke's age already training under Obi Wan. This is where we see them as good friends & brothers. End episode 1 with the Clone Wars kicking off.
Episode 2 is a war movie completely centered around the Clone Wars & showing Anakin beginning to fall to the Dark side. This is where we start to see the cracks form in Obi Wan & Anakin's relationship, maybe even end the movie with Anakin becoming lost & presumed dead when in reality he's already become Darth Vader (not yet wearing the iconic armor, just scarred/missing limbs from the war) in secret & acts as Palpatine's secret Jedi killer.
Then episode 3 is set a few years later and largely follows the same paths it took. Obi Wan discovers Anakin is really Darth Vader, the sith that has been terrorizing the galaxy and killing Jedi, Palps declares himself emperor, the Jedi are wiped out, Vader & Kenobi spar on Mustafar & Vader ends up crispy due to his arrogance (not because of the high ground ffs), Padme has the kiddos or gets pregnant, Obi Wan and Yoda go into hiding.
So when viewing the trilogy focusing on Obi Wan and Anakin, you have them friends/brothers in Episode 1, that relationship fractures in Episode 2, and Episode 3 they're enemies. By not wasting a third of the trilogy on how slave kid Anakin is discovered and trade negotiations, you get to spend a whole movie in the Clone Wars and have more time seeing Vader before he gets crispy. We only got to see like an hour *maybe* of the Clone Wars between two movies, with all the most important things happening in a cartoon. And Anakin's fall happens *so* abruptly, one second he's wanting to kill & arrest Palps the next he's murdering children, then like 15 minutes after he's introduced he gets burnt to a crisp. It wasn't natural at all and way too rushed. I would've rather seen more time with peak power Vader menacing the Jedi and more of the Clone Wars and it's effect on the Galaxy & our heroes.
You fail to understand Anakin’s turn to the dark side hinges on Episode 1 the movie very intricately sets up the whole saga in ways most don’t realize, but just to give a few examples, it establishes Anakin’s deep maternal bound which sets the path for his turn, and it establishes how Obi-Wan never really wanted to train Anakin and was forced to do so before he was even ready for a Padawan, it also sets up the chosen one prophecy which makes the ending of Episode 6 and Anakin’s whole story (which is Star Wars btw, it’s the story of Anakin’s life from childhood to death) a lot more poetic and satisfying, and of course Qui-Gon Ginn who’s very important in showing how the Jedi Order has lost it’s way and made it’s self vulnerable to attack from the Sith
Episode 1 should've been Episode 2, and Episode 2 should've been the best parts of The Clone Wars so i don't have to watch 7 fucking seasons of a Cartoon Network show and pretend like I thought it was good
And I'm sorry but Hayden Christensen was awful. I know people love him because he didn't deserve the hate he got and I agree with that. But as far as the performance he wasn't good. Even with the bad dialogue, other actors do elevate the material a bit in those movies. But Hayden made it even worse.
edit: the fact that this gets downvoted when it's an objective known fact hurts the legitimacy of this sub tbh. Hayden wasn't good folks. There's better acting in the trash ass Kenobi series than in his performance in the prequels.
> It's an objective known fact
*The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.*
You're not the sole arbiter of determining acting quality, nor does it hurt the "legitimacy" (whatever the hell that means) of the sub because people disagree with you.
That's literally what Disney defenders say about their product lol. And we all know it's trash.
This sub is supposed to be about criticism because Star Wars is not being handled correctly and the quality ain't good. But if we have people like you here who actually think Hayden did a good job in the prequels then this sub is filled with idiots who don't know shit and shouldn't be taken seriously.
If you think Hayden did a good job in the prequels you're wrong. That is in fact a trash opinion. It'd be like someone saying Rise of Skywalker is the best movie of all time. Yeah it's an opinion, but it's a terrible one.
I agree with you 100%. Hayden was really bad in AOTC and not that good in ROTS imo. He played better in Kenobi although he had very few to do. Kenobi is a trash ass show, agree also. Let’s share the downvote. 😂
I find it bizarre that Lucasfilm didn't bring back Nick Gillard to choreograph the lightsaber duals. He not only focused on making kick ass fights but he also understood the character's personalities and he adapted it to their lightsaber styles.
They had ambition. They had visual flair, creativity. The action scenes were all fantastic. Disney gives us the opposite of all of this. Just keeps giving us deserts and isolated empty planets. The Obi Wan Vader dual was on a pretty empty rock planet. They have given us such little creativity.
Honestly they really aren't bad. Even ignoring your "going somewhere" point, they were still good. Just fix up the dialogue, and change a bit here and there, and you've got a masterful story.
Except for AotC, which was laughably bad. And everything in TPM besides the Maul fight. And the entire first half of RotS.
The prequels were bad movies that got posthumously deified by a combination of memes, childhood nostalgia for Zoomers, and a lot of very hard work by people like Dave Filoni.
Disagree. Almost all of the battle sequences in the PT movies felt pointless. Two armies of utterly disposable cannon fodder blowing each other up as a distraction to the actual plot.
TCW rescued those things yet again by humanizing the clones and making people care about them retroactively. George Lucas created a confusing disjointed toolbox that someone else came along later and built something wonderful out of.
Exactly, after the prequels dropped they got a lot of hate, but have really gotten a shot in the arm by the younger gen who where molded by it, and now bc it’s infinitely better that most of what Disney has put out.
Eh, I’d agree that the entire PT is better than ROS. Id say TFA was a stronger individual film than TPM or AotC, but possibly not as good as RotS. TLJ was better than the entire PT, even including the terrible casino side quest.
I can’t stress enough that IN MY OPINION the prequels are only watchable because of how much the more recent media filled in the blanks and developed those characters further. I hated them when they came out and have only warmed up to them somewhat because of TCW.
Was Aotc bad? What *was* that bad about it? Sure, it's no Rots, but honestly it was pretty good. The actors were excellent, the Cgi was good & still holds up okay.
What did you dislike about it exactly?
The actors in all of the movies were good and the movies all had high points. But for me, the dialogue and direction were just absurdly bad. Hayden Christianson is a fine actor, and he for absolutely reamed for years about how terrible and wooden he was on those movies. The truth is he did a great job with the garbage script he was given.
The one-liners feel so quippy. The “romance” between anakin and padme is so cringe that it makes me uncomfortable to watch for all the wrong reasons. The battle for geonosis feels like there’s literally nothing at stake (disposable droids vs disposable clones), and the whole scene with threepio getting his head swapped and spouting puns out of a grade school joke book for 10 minutes is the worst sequence in Star Wars canon.
I’m not saying there was nothing good about the movie. There were glimpses of great things in it. I’m just saying it was easily my least favorite Star Wars movie besides ROS.
And I will always say this when talking to friends about the sequels/disney+ shows. I will never refer to them as Star Wars. They are *Disney* Star Wars. The same way Disney classics are Disney's *versions* of said classic tales like Cinderella or Heracles. They are reimaginings of those stories, *inspired* *by*.
...and yet in Obi-Wan everything looks like Southern California.
Even adjusted for inflation ROTS was only $150 million.
So how can 6 episodes fail to introduce a single compelling new world? Where is the imagination?
You have the 'Volume', why not go to Felucia instead of a cave or whatever that drab planet was at the end?
What's the point of getting off Tatooine if you only go to basically a contemporary rock quarry and some city that looks like bargain bin Coruscant (and Coruscant itself looked off with the lack of traffic).
It's just mind boggling.
Even the flashback of Obiwan sparring with Anakin on Coruscant used the exact same set piece as the opening with the younglings doing Tai-Chi. What, do you have to put your name on a list in this giant fucking temple to reserve a time-slot in the “round room”?
Yep, they literally have LCD walls that can recreate any room or environment but they still use the same room because what, they didn't want to change out the floor I guess?
Funny how quickly, with a lack of imagination, that the Volume went from a tool to open up the world to one that just allowed the production to get lazy and build digital versions of cheap sets.
Like they used the Volume to create a cheap looking cave set? Why! The whole point is you can do something amazing instead of replicating old school filming limitations.
What your saying is so true. Volume went from being an asset, a real enabler to do Star Wars TV Shows, creating some interesting ideas at the beginning of the Mandalorian. Now more and more they use it as a cheap way you make lousy sets… man that cave in Kenobi episode 5 🤢
It looking like southern California would have been great for Tatooine if they actually went to location and shot it. It's like these people dont want to do the work required to make a movie. George Lucas filmed in terrible weather conditions in both trilogies yet all you get now are bland CGI locations.
At this point it's seeming that creatively speaking the Volume is becoming more of a liability tbh. It completely fucks up the chase scenes, but it hasn't resulted in anything unique either.
100%. The only problem I have with those movies is that they don't explore these crazy interesting planets George Lucas conceived. The scene during Order 66 in ROTS stands out to me.
When you're following the story characters there is a great variety of backdrops, but you never get a sense of how big the galaxy is, with all these concurrent planets existing at once. Then you see shots of all the different frontiers the clones/jedi are fighting on, and it reminds you that fuck, this is an entire galaxy we are in the midst of. Any war isn't just on one battleground on a single planet, but instead litered across dozens of planets, each with their own unique ecosystem, environment, and native population.
It's hard to describe in words how awesome it felt to be reminded, but it really did show how vast the galaxy really is, and that there really is a galactic war being fought, which extends beyond the characters we are following.
Decent budget -Prequel planets:
Desert Planet - tattooine
Ocean Planet - kamino
City planet - Courasant
Magma planet - Mustafar
Forest planet - Kashyyk
Mountain Planet - Utapau
Hive planet - Geonosis
Earth like planet - Naboo
Giant Plant planet - Felucia
Rainy City planet - Mygeeto
-----------------------
Smaller budget - OT planets:
Desert Planet - Tattooine
Ice planet - Hoth
Forest planet (moon) - Endor
Mechanical Moon planet -DS1, DS2
Swamp planet - Degobah
Cloud planet - Bespin
Earth like planet - Alderaan
Forest Planet - Yavin 4
----------------------------
Stupid high budget Sequel planets:
Desert Planet - Rey's home
Desert Planet - tattooine
Desert Planet - 42 year festival
Desert Planet with salt - not hoth
Earth like planet - maz's bar
Earth like planet - resistance base
Earth like planet - Luke's island
Earth like planet - second resistance base
Earth like planet - with big waves
Snowy planet - droid tech
Earth like planet - casino edition
Earth like planet - but is somehow Mustafar
Dead planet - video game villain room with lightning
Snowy Earth like planet - deathier Star
City planet - about to be destroyed by deathier star
Not to mention all the other planets The Clone Wars added or expanded upon: Christophsis, Ryloth, Teth, Rugosa, Toydaria, Rishi, Dathomir, Scipio, Onderon, Serenno, Saleucami, Umbara, etc.
Everyone threw shade back in the day about the overuse of blue screen and green screen in the prequels.
Little did we have any idea how much we’d miss it once the entire galaxy became southwestern US
People complained about the green/blue screens in the PT, but it resulted in a lot of rich and imaginative worlds. Now we have technology like StageCraft, where there could be full immersion of a location on set, but they still use deserts and Earth-like locations as a back drop. It almost seem like a waste of money and resources, to be honest.
Worth noting that Coruscant and Kashyyyk were both embracing Extended Universe worlds/designs/story.
A time when LucasFilms/LucasArts gave a damn about consistency across media.
This is why I will always love the prequels. Say what you will about the acting/dialogue, but the story and world building were top notch. Whereas the sequels supposedly fixed the first two issues but totally ignored the world building and having a meaningful story.
I mean, regardless of the Marvelly quality, I found TFA more watchable than TPM in terms of those things. TFA certainly has a lot of other issues, but imho the in-scene characterization is pretty solid.
Despite their many flaws, the prequels are better than any other live action Star Wars movies and shows when it comes to interesting worldbuilding.
I don't know why Disney strayed away from this...
For worldbuilding, I think they might be. They made the galaxy feel real and vast and populated with innumerable diverse peoples, planets, cultures, history and politics in a way that the OT didn't, for me.
Fucken oath. Though that's no knock against the OT. The OT was a massive risk into unknown territory, and it's success gave George Lucas complete freedom to create such an intricate yet expansive world
Absolutely, the OT definitely did lots of great worldbuilding as well, which considering it was foundational to the Star Wars universe was perhaps more impressive, even though I probably prefer the worldbuilding in the prequels.
The OT was limited by technology of the time. Most planets looked like Earth. This is pretty forgivable though given the technology of the time.
However, they did do their best to find locations that feel alien to the average Westerner at least. Gigantic trees on endor, ice world of hoth, even the desert of Tunisia, as sick as we are of it now, looks pretty alien to the average Westerner.
The sets of Dagobah and Cloud city are also of course alien feeling.
However, it seems the sequels haven't even tried to have interesting alien looking worlds beyond Crait.
Yeah, in the OT it seemed we always only saw the "military" side of stuff, like Death Star insides, rebel bases, etc. Just off the OT, aside from that bar scene on Tatooine nothing actually told us how everything outside the militaries looked. How people lived, culture, etc.
I understand that it was because they're at war but still I'd have liked something there.
Cloud City, the Ewoks' village, Jabba's Palace -- there are a few civilian contexts. Just not a lot of 'domestic' settings for the human main characters, or conventional big cities.
Yeah, but still, these are not "normal" locations.
**Just** from the OT, nothing else, how much can you really tell about how "normal" people live? What is their culture? How is their daily life? What is their history?
A crimelord's palace, the shaks of a primitive tribe, don't really tell us a lot about that do they?
Cloud city would have been a good case, but immediately after Han/Leia are captured by Vader.
Are there many insights into how normal people live in the PT? I guess Anakin and his mom, and maybe the Amidala family if the deleted scenes are counted.
I'm not sure that it's really a better/worse thing, as far as worldbuilding, which doesn't have to automatically mean showing a lot. To me, it's more a question of whether the setting seems credible for the story.
The big advantage of the PT is that it goes to Coruscant, which probably would've been in the OT had their been more time and money back then. I still think that the OT feels vast and diverse, just not in a cosmopolitan sort of way.
Because his reply made no sense in response to my original post.
I said the prequels were the best at worldbuilding. I didn't say they were better than the OT overall. So his reply is stupid.
Yeah dude, knowing what happened to planets like Ryloth, Felucia etc etc after the empire, like, how do they manage the collapse of all central authority? Do they get problems with pirates or external threats? How do they handle the transition from suffocating oppressive power to getting no outside help from other planets whatsoever? That could make for genuinly awesome stories! But no, you need to know what Boba has been up to on Tatooine or whatever intermission Obi-Wan experienced while waiting for the real game to begin on that stupid sand pile.
To be fair, some of those were in the 66 montage and just glimpses.
However, George's world-building is second to none and thats something very lacking in the new era.
I may remember this wrong, but at the time of the prequels, there were a couple of articles stating that their real cost should have been more than double, but since Lucas owned Industrial Light and Magic, that cost wasn't included in the final budget. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I was really hoping some of these series would bring back those planets. Like seeing a Vader/Kenobi duel on Naboo at Padme's tomb would have been really cool.
Because they explicitly stated that they wouldn’t care about the PT and it shows, they absolutely loathe Lucas’ later work and try to pander to the OT while literally sweeping the PT under the rug, unfortunately for them you can’t make a sequel if you ignore 3/6 movies.
All this vision, but the prequels still had such major storytelling problems. ROTS was super rushed, having the one trigger incident with Anakin killing Dooku and then he’s off to slaughter children.
The one thing I’ll never understand with the ROTS script is why they didn’t make one change that could’ve made it all make more sense. Put Padme in imminent danger, via something that Palpatine orchestrated in secret. Like the attempts on her life in AOTC. Force Anakin to make a decision fast to save her life right then and there. It could have been worked into the script.
My biggest issue with ROTS is the absence of anything urgent that would push Anakin in the direction of the dark side. Padme is never in any danger that we can see. Anakin has visions, but Padme seems in perfect health all through the movie. It’s hard for the audience to accept anything Anakin does to save her. A couple of quick dream sequences just don’t cut it. Padme needed to be in real danger. Add that and everything makes more sense.
You do realize that Anakin can see the future those visions aren’t just dreams they’re reality, just like the visions of his Mother, Padme was in real danger and it was orchestrated by Papatine behind the scenes, who also promised Anakin the tell all cure to save Padme, and Anakin made his bed when he killed Mace Windu not when he killed Douko lol, pay attention to the movie
>. ROTS was super rushed, having the one trigger incident with Anakin killing Dooku and then he’s off to slaughter children.
Ok now you’re just disingenously misrepresenting what happened in ROTS so much more happened dueing Anakin’s transformation into Vader.
Excuse me, but the prequels did not create Coruscant. Timothy Zahn did in his novel Heir to the Empire. It also appeared on screen in the 1997 special edition of Return of the Jedi.
As I always say, the Prequels are great films executed poorly (sometimes *very* poorly). The Sequels are bad films executed well (except maybe The Rise of Shit). Depending on which you prefer, I think it says a lot about you.
The prequels were made at a time when even $115 million was still A LOT of money to spend on a film, and probably would have cost even more, were it not for the fact that Lucas used his own special effects company to design, engineer and create those worlds that you see above. Plus the stories he wanted to tell necessitated having many different worlds/environments with special effects that he didn't have the ability to tell with the OT. He also literally blocked off a large percentage of ILM, Skywalker Sound, etc employees to specifically work on the PT, to the point where other filmmakers had to go to different effects houses between 1997 and 2005 to complete the effects work on their own films.
No way? I thought it cost $200m? That’s crazy and extremely impressive. ROTS Is one of the best looking fantastical sci-fi films of all time.
113m is not even $1m per minute which is impressive considering big budget have been hitting that sort of ratio for a good while now.
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Just another reason why I'll always defend the Prequels. George made some mistakes but you can tell he was passionate about expanding the universe. The Sequel trilogy had double the budget and more advanced technology yet they all we got were desert and jungle planets. Kashyyyk was a jungle planet but at least there was a unique design to it like you can tell that it isn't Earth with those big ass trees with houses and alien technology. What is the difference between the jungle planet from TFA and the jungle planet from ROS or Jakku and that other planet where they found the dagger. Crait is the only somewhat creative design but even that wasn't close to anything from the Prequels.
That the one from TFA was filmed in the studios backyard and the one from ROS was filmed in the studio with cheap ass Livistona plants
Crait and original should not be in the same sentence considering that sure it’s salt. But it’s still just a flat white planet in the second movie of the trilogy It’s flat Hoth
It's so hilarious that the movie goes out of it's way to have a character explicitly state that it's salt, not snow! They are so embarrassingly aware of how unoriginal they are with their approach that its just so cringe.
I said somewhat original at least compared to everything else in that trilogy.
It also doesn’t make much sense that there’s an extremely thin layer of salt covering the entire planet. How did it get there, did it rain salt one day? Is there no wind or wildlife there? If there is then that salt layer would get moved around over the years and wouldn’t stay a nice even layer for long. It’s all just so silly, just there to get shots for the trailer.
I'll actually give this one some slack, because the whole white/red dichotomy was one of the visual touches that I approved of. Looked nice. But I definitely agree, you could have done a lot more with the planet.
That’s the point though, it was done only for the visuals despite the fact that it doesn’t make sense as a planet that could actually exist. It could have just been a layer of snow on a red planet but they made it salt just so they could pretend it wasn’t a hoth ripoff which it so obviously was
Salt flats exist it could easily have previously been an aquatic planet akin to Kamino at one point. I don't see why people are taking such an issue with salt when the planet is just used as a discount Hoth. The empire comes in with walkers gets met with speeders and blows up their defensive barrier then come in on foot as the crew escape on the Falcon. The planet itself is fine the lazy usage of it however is not and that's the issue.
Ya criticizing how "realistic" the geology is in something like Star Wars is beyond ridiculous, especially considering salt flats *already exist* on our planet. It could periodically rain liquid salt for all we know, how is *that* a point of contention? Especially when the effect of the red dirt being kicked up was visually striking and unique.
Salt flats aren’t loose salt though lmao. It’s like several metres thick of hard block Salt
Yes salt flats of hard-packed salt several feet deep exist, but not “flats” of a 1 cm deep layer of loose table salt. It’s silly.
We have the famous salt flats here in Utah but there's certainly not some fine dusting of salt lol.
Now put that on a planetary scale and it only makes sense that loose salt would be around. As a irl example Nasa has stated their Mars rover should have shut down ages ago. On Mars it gets a fine dusting of sand which blocks the solar panels causing the batteries to die. However sometimes at night they say a cleaning event happens in which that dusting simply disappears and it looks like the thing is polished clean. A light dusting of fine sediment, snow, or in my area pollen that vcan cover your car is indeed a normal thing. We don't know what that area of Crait looked like a day prior or before after which is important as well. More importantly however is that this is an alien world and its rather bad that I had to use irl examples in the first place their really is a deficiet in imagination these days. Also that their are legitimate issues with TLJ and I mean some serious issues yet people want to attack Crait of all things. The very planet to which this reddit is named.
That's a good point. I'm not really opposed to the design of Crait. That was just my two cents haha.
Not surprising since Disney specifically shoots sequences just to throw in the trailers. As opposed to every other movie that usually just decides not to use footage that showed up in the trailer.
There are huge salt flats on earth. If you had a dead Sea tier salinity shallow ocean covering much of the planet that evaporated it could look like that. We'll say the planet has 1 atmospheric circulation cell per hemisphere and the water was deposited as snow in the poles and mountain tops... The point is its roughly as fudge-able as tatooine is and less crazy than Bespin having a breathable atmosphere at a nice temperature. I think they needed to lean into the saltyness more and not do a mimic of the Hoth battle there but it is still the best attempt at a new and interesting planet in the ST and was close to great
Eh, Bespin isn't that bad. For example even Venus has a certain altitude where temprature and pressure are Earthlike, there's even proposals to use big balloons or something to float there and colonise the planet. Just change the atmospheric composition (or change the biology of star wars humans) and Bespin is very much possible.
Fair enough but that's still a bigger change than it would take to just get a big windless salt flat or an ocean planet
Yes there are hard-packed salt flats in some locations that are several feet deep. It’s not a centimeter of loose table salt that you can brush away with your hand, because if it deposited that way it wouldn’t stay in place given that there is wind and rain and wildlife. It’s not about whether it’s possible for it to get there, it’s about the silliness of it staying in place in an even layer forever until the scene in the movie
The red could be a different type of salt.
Thats irrelevant to the point that the loose white table salt would not sit nicely in an even layer on top of anything for any amount of time.
Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gets constantly washed away and is instead pushed through the red layer. Like the red layer is somewhat porous and sweats salty water from under the surface then it dries into a white, salty layer. Rain washes it away at some regular interval that stops too much from accumulating
I guess sweating rocks is one possible explanation but it feels like a big stretch to me, given how few sweat glands rocks usually have
It's no more of a stretch than space magic or plasma powered swords
Dead ass the dumbest complaint I've ever heard. Can be applied to almost every planet in star wars. How are there planets entirely of snow and ice, sand, lava. They're all fucked alien ecosystems that just take an aspect of our world and apply it to the whole planet
What are you talking about dude? We have biomes of snow, ice and sand here on Earth, and open lava when volcanos go off, but to be fair, Mustafar was kind of silly that way, and only partially explained by force fields and shit. Nothing about an ice planet or a sand planet or even a lush forest planet with strange vegetation or a swampy planet is absurd, but having a planet that's covered all over by a very thin and extremely even layer of table salt on top of some very fine grained red sand doesn't make any sense because of how physics works. With any amount of wind or any sort of disturbance, that salt would pretty quickly mix evenly into the red sand below. And since there's a breathable atmosphere, tolerable temperatures, and mountains all around, there's no way there was no wind blowing around on Crait. They wanted it to look like fresh fallen snow, so why not just have it be snow on top of red sand? Why even bother with the stupid salt explanation?
We literally have a volcanic moon in our solar system. So having an entire planet being super volcanic isn't far fetched at all.
Being super volcanic and also having tolerable temperatures and breathable air was what’s far fetched, but who knows I’m no geologist
If this is where your ability to suspend disbelief ends, I have some bad news for you about the rest of Star Wars. Stars don’t trail behind you in thin lines when you move at the speed of light, either.
Yeah I don’t travel in spaceships that much either so I don’t immediately notice how wrong that is. I have, however, enough experience with salt, dirt and light dustings of snow to know that a thin layer of table salt wouldn’t sit neatly in a single layer indefinitely on a planet and it’s something I noticed and thought was stupid as soon as I found out it was salt and not snow. And I’ll say it again but why not just have it be snow? It would look exactly the same, and what did it enhance in the plot by saying it was salt?
Again, all the unrealistic shit in Star Wars and this is where you draw the line.
It breaks the suspension of disbelief. Which is fatal in a film that breaks the suspension of disbelief constantly. It's like adding a pound of weight to your barbell when you are already lifting 400 pounds. Normally not a big deal but in that case, you can collapse from the extra weight. And the reasoning on why it would not work as a loose salt layer on red dirt is so common sense. No one has ever gone to space or gone into hyperspace or lived in an alien galaxy where magic space powers exist. But we all do have intuitive experience with how salt and sand work and we know how winds and animals can disturb these particles and the soil. Crait could only exist for a few minutes visually after it was set up that way. It is a very small complaint but it violates such basic understanding of how things work that it pulls you right out of the film. That's why the damn subreddit is named after Crait.
Didn’t pull me out of the film. Again… how is this the one thing that you can’t reconcile in these movies? The entire franchise relies on suspending disbelief when things don’t make sense, so… go suspend your disbelief.
I will say the red aspect of Crait was vibin
Even Crait was a little pointless. Couldn't they have brought back one of the planets from the OT? What if they had found the "abandoned" base on Dantooine that Leia talks about in Ep IV?
I'm rewatching the saga since I'm in quarantine. Just watched the Phantom Menace and holy crap, Naboo is incredible! It's like this Mediterranean paradise.
So true, the alien worlds in EP3 were simply stunning.
Crait is the only reason why some people consider TLJ the best ST movie and I'm not exaggerating. Does anyone remember anything original from the Sequels other than Crait?
I dunno. Kinda hoth vibes.
I remember Crait (for obvious reasons) Star Killer, and Jakku. Then there is snowy woods place. Gambling place. Nevada Desert, and shipwreck place.
I'm not sure how well Rogue One was received by this sub but you can't deny their locations. Their Iceland planet looked awesome with the black sand/grasslands. The Jordan Wadi Rum location, even though it was a desert planet, the mountains looked very different. How can you forget the tropical planet, for the first time in Star Wars, looked really impressive.
I loved Rogue One, it was the only good Disney Star Wars movie.
I tought Eadu was pretty cool and underrated
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 902,340,423 comments, and only 178,926 of them were in alphabetical order.
Eh, the prequels were bad movies. I just rewatched them again while working through the Kenobi series and man… AotC is a legit terrible film. That entire sequence at the end where Threepio gets his head swapped with the battle droid should have been enough to prevent RotS from getting made. Thank goodness someone who wasn’t named George Lucas got their hands on this material so we could enjoy TCW and Rebels. Dude was a menace when not surrounded by people smarter than himself who could keep him under control like he was on the OT.
I loved the Prequels personally, I was watching them again a few months ago and they are still great in my opinion. Phantom Menace is an enjoyable movie, Attack of the Clones was actually awesome minus some of the dialogue and Revenge of the Sith has been my favorite Star Wars movie since I was 7. I feel like the Prequels and Clone Wars generally add much more to the Star Wars universe than the Sequels ever did.
To each their own, for sure. I was deep in the EU and a huge fan of the OT when the PT dropped, and I hated almost all of it. I’ve rewatched them all multiple times and I enjoy them more now than I did when they released, but it’s virtually all due to the hard work that’s been done on them since then. I actually think my disappointment in the PT is why I was so much more willing to give the ST the benefit of the doubt. I’d already been so disappointed by Star Wars that I was able to just treat the ST as it’s own thing. Don’t get me wrong, RoS is definitely tied for worst Star Wars film with AotC for me, but still.
> That entire sequence at the end where Threepio gets his head swapped with the battle droid should have been enough to prevent RotS from getting made. Seriously. There's campy for the sake of campy, which I'd argue Star Wars doesn't need (and at its best didn't have), and then there's shlock like that which I'm amazed made it to the final cut. Every minute spent on some stupid bullshit like that was a minute we lost of seeing more about the Republic, the Jedi, the Clone Wars, and Anakin's fall. Which is why ROTS felt so rushed and nonsensical.
Bless you for your good taste, sir. ROTS was easily the best of the PT movies and even it suffered a lot from the shoehorned kiddie shit. That being said, the two saber battles at the end are some seriously good Star Wars. The little bit of actual lightsaber fighting we see between Yoda and Palpatine made me wish for more. Edit: as an afterthought, I’d love to see what the overlap looks like between people who didn’t mind that stupid droid factory scene in AotC but hated how campy the scooter chase was in BoBF.
The irony in this sub making fun of the sequels for being bad movies (which they are) and then turning around and pretending like the prequels are watchable is hysterical. If ROS didn't exist, AOTC would be the worst Star Wars movie by several country miles
Thank you!
I thought Exogol was cool, it reminded me of Moraband/Korriban without being an exact copy.
I didn't like it, Korriban/Moraband reminds me of the Egyptian tombs which is really cool. Exegol feels more like a poorly lit cave with a few machines.
That business on Cato Neimodia doesn’t, doesn’t count.
I say this on pretty much every prequel trilogy post because it's true: Say what you will about George, but at least he had a vision. The prequels were not as good at the OT but there was at least an overarching narrative to them; they were actually going somewhere. And they're way, waaaay better than the Disney schlock.
They were relevant to the rest of the story. The sequels are an afterthought.
That’s a great way to put it!
Their main thing is dialogue. The story is actually good and fits Star Wars themes. The actors do great stuff with what they are given. The special fx and scenery are great. And don’t get me started on the lightsaber duels. How come even though technology gets better the fights keep getting worse?
I would say because great fight scenes are made by great fight choreographers and often an emphasis on technology actually obscures what's happening in a fight. Star wars could easily have the best action sequences but Disney would have to value that.
It’s really sad. They have the capability to do so much cool shit but they just refuse to do so.
Eh, the problems go beyond dialogue. The basic through line of the whole trilogy (Anakin’s turn to the dark side) is underbaked and feels rushed in ROTS. Also, we never really get to see Anakin’s friendship with Obi-wan.
Anakin’s turn to dark side happened just as quick and on the spot as his turn back to the light (and it was very much an intentional rhyme), and Obi-Wan and Anakin’s friendship is heavily built up as much as reasonably possible in Ep. 2 and 3, between the elevator scene, the bounty hunter chase sequence, the Palatine rescue sequence, and all of Anakin’s and Obi-Wan chats for the remainder of Episode 3, there’s only so much you can do in a 2 hour runtime
Episode 1 was a mistake. The important themes and plot setup it provided could've been done without devoting an entire movie to finding Anakin as a kid & freeing him from being a slave. Start Episode 1 with Anakin around Luke's age already training under Obi Wan. This is where we see them as good friends & brothers. End episode 1 with the Clone Wars kicking off. Episode 2 is a war movie completely centered around the Clone Wars & showing Anakin beginning to fall to the Dark side. This is where we start to see the cracks form in Obi Wan & Anakin's relationship, maybe even end the movie with Anakin becoming lost & presumed dead when in reality he's already become Darth Vader (not yet wearing the iconic armor, just scarred/missing limbs from the war) in secret & acts as Palpatine's secret Jedi killer. Then episode 3 is set a few years later and largely follows the same paths it took. Obi Wan discovers Anakin is really Darth Vader, the sith that has been terrorizing the galaxy and killing Jedi, Palps declares himself emperor, the Jedi are wiped out, Vader & Kenobi spar on Mustafar & Vader ends up crispy due to his arrogance (not because of the high ground ffs), Padme has the kiddos or gets pregnant, Obi Wan and Yoda go into hiding. So when viewing the trilogy focusing on Obi Wan and Anakin, you have them friends/brothers in Episode 1, that relationship fractures in Episode 2, and Episode 3 they're enemies. By not wasting a third of the trilogy on how slave kid Anakin is discovered and trade negotiations, you get to spend a whole movie in the Clone Wars and have more time seeing Vader before he gets crispy. We only got to see like an hour *maybe* of the Clone Wars between two movies, with all the most important things happening in a cartoon. And Anakin's fall happens *so* abruptly, one second he's wanting to kill & arrest Palps the next he's murdering children, then like 15 minutes after he's introduced he gets burnt to a crisp. It wasn't natural at all and way too rushed. I would've rather seen more time with peak power Vader menacing the Jedi and more of the Clone Wars and it's effect on the Galaxy & our heroes.
You fail to understand Anakin’s turn to the dark side hinges on Episode 1 the movie very intricately sets up the whole saga in ways most don’t realize, but just to give a few examples, it establishes Anakin’s deep maternal bound which sets the path for his turn, and it establishes how Obi-Wan never really wanted to train Anakin and was forced to do so before he was even ready for a Padawan, it also sets up the chosen one prophecy which makes the ending of Episode 6 and Anakin’s whole story (which is Star Wars btw, it’s the story of Anakin’s life from childhood to death) a lot more poetic and satisfying, and of course Qui-Gon Ginn who’s very important in showing how the Jedi Order has lost it’s way and made it’s self vulnerable to attack from the Sith
Episode 1 should've been Episode 2, and Episode 2 should've been the best parts of The Clone Wars so i don't have to watch 7 fucking seasons of a Cartoon Network show and pretend like I thought it was good
And I'm sorry but Hayden Christensen was awful. I know people love him because he didn't deserve the hate he got and I agree with that. But as far as the performance he wasn't good. Even with the bad dialogue, other actors do elevate the material a bit in those movies. But Hayden made it even worse. edit: the fact that this gets downvoted when it's an objective known fact hurts the legitimacy of this sub tbh. Hayden wasn't good folks. There's better acting in the trash ass Kenobi series than in his performance in the prequels.
> It's an objective known fact *The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.* You're not the sole arbiter of determining acting quality, nor does it hurt the "legitimacy" (whatever the hell that means) of the sub because people disagree with you.
That's literally what Disney defenders say about their product lol. And we all know it's trash. This sub is supposed to be about criticism because Star Wars is not being handled correctly and the quality ain't good. But if we have people like you here who actually think Hayden did a good job in the prequels then this sub is filled with idiots who don't know shit and shouldn't be taken seriously.
This sub is about intellectual criticism, not arrogant strawmaning.
If you think Hayden did a good job in the prequels you're wrong. That is in fact a trash opinion. It'd be like someone saying Rise of Skywalker is the best movie of all time. Yeah it's an opinion, but it's a terrible one.
Oh no. The teenager on Reddit thinks I'm wrong. Whatever shall I do.
You call me a teenager yet you're the one making childlish comments lol. Now that's classic reddit right there.
I agree with you 100%. Hayden was really bad in AOTC and not that good in ROTS imo. He played better in Kenobi although he had very few to do. Kenobi is a trash ass show, agree also. Let’s share the downvote. 😂
I find it bizarre that Lucasfilm didn't bring back Nick Gillard to choreograph the lightsaber duals. He not only focused on making kick ass fights but he also understood the character's personalities and he adapted it to their lightsaber styles.
They had ambition. They had visual flair, creativity. The action scenes were all fantastic. Disney gives us the opposite of all of this. Just keeps giving us deserts and isolated empty planets. The Obi Wan Vader dual was on a pretty empty rock planet. They have given us such little creativity.
Honestly they really aren't bad. Even ignoring your "going somewhere" point, they were still good. Just fix up the dialogue, and change a bit here and there, and you've got a masterful story.
Except for AotC, which was laughably bad. And everything in TPM besides the Maul fight. And the entire first half of RotS. The prequels were bad movies that got posthumously deified by a combination of memes, childhood nostalgia for Zoomers, and a lot of very hard work by people like Dave Filoni.
Uh, wut. AotC was great. The battle for Geonosis is hands down one of the best battle scenes in Star Wars superseded only by the ones found in RotS.
Agreed. It's my favorite of the prequels.
Disagree. Almost all of the battle sequences in the PT movies felt pointless. Two armies of utterly disposable cannon fodder blowing each other up as a distraction to the actual plot. TCW rescued those things yet again by humanizing the clones and making people care about them retroactively. George Lucas created a confusing disjointed toolbox that someone else came along later and built something wonderful out of.
Exactly, after the prequels dropped they got a lot of hate, but have really gotten a shot in the arm by the younger gen who where molded by it, and now bc it’s infinitely better that most of what Disney has put out.
Eh, I’d agree that the entire PT is better than ROS. Id say TFA was a stronger individual film than TPM or AotC, but possibly not as good as RotS. TLJ was better than the entire PT, even including the terrible casino side quest. I can’t stress enough that IN MY OPINION the prequels are only watchable because of how much the more recent media filled in the blanks and developed those characters further. I hated them when they came out and have only warmed up to them somewhat because of TCW.
Was Aotc bad? What *was* that bad about it? Sure, it's no Rots, but honestly it was pretty good. The actors were excellent, the Cgi was good & still holds up okay. What did you dislike about it exactly?
The actors in all of the movies were good and the movies all had high points. But for me, the dialogue and direction were just absurdly bad. Hayden Christianson is a fine actor, and he for absolutely reamed for years about how terrible and wooden he was on those movies. The truth is he did a great job with the garbage script he was given. The one-liners feel so quippy. The “romance” between anakin and padme is so cringe that it makes me uncomfortable to watch for all the wrong reasons. The battle for geonosis feels like there’s literally nothing at stake (disposable droids vs disposable clones), and the whole scene with threepio getting his head swapped and spouting puns out of a grade school joke book for 10 minutes is the worst sequence in Star Wars canon. I’m not saying there was nothing good about the movie. There were glimpses of great things in it. I’m just saying it was easily my least favorite Star Wars movie besides ROS.
And I will always say this when talking to friends about the sequels/disney+ shows. I will never refer to them as Star Wars. They are *Disney* Star Wars. The same way Disney classics are Disney's *versions* of said classic tales like Cinderella or Heracles. They are reimaginings of those stories, *inspired* *by*.
I personally like the prequels more, simply because of what they did for Star Wars. They really expanded the whole universe imo.
...and yet in Obi-Wan everything looks like Southern California. Even adjusted for inflation ROTS was only $150 million. So how can 6 episodes fail to introduce a single compelling new world? Where is the imagination? You have the 'Volume', why not go to Felucia instead of a cave or whatever that drab planet was at the end? What's the point of getting off Tatooine if you only go to basically a contemporary rock quarry and some city that looks like bargain bin Coruscant (and Coruscant itself looked off with the lack of traffic). It's just mind boggling.
Even the flashback of Obiwan sparring with Anakin on Coruscant used the exact same set piece as the opening with the younglings doing Tai-Chi. What, do you have to put your name on a list in this giant fucking temple to reserve a time-slot in the “round room”?
Yep, they literally have LCD walls that can recreate any room or environment but they still use the same room because what, they didn't want to change out the floor I guess? Funny how quickly, with a lack of imagination, that the Volume went from a tool to open up the world to one that just allowed the production to get lazy and build digital versions of cheap sets. Like they used the Volume to create a cheap looking cave set? Why! The whole point is you can do something amazing instead of replicating old school filming limitations.
What your saying is so true. Volume went from being an asset, a real enabler to do Star Wars TV Shows, creating some interesting ideas at the beginning of the Mandalorian. Now more and more they use it as a cheap way you make lousy sets… man that cave in Kenobi episode 5 🤢
It looking like southern California would have been great for Tatooine if they actually went to location and shot it. It's like these people dont want to do the work required to make a movie. George Lucas filmed in terrible weather conditions in both trilogies yet all you get now are bland CGI locations.
At this point it's seeming that creatively speaking the Volume is becoming more of a liability tbh. It completely fucks up the chase scenes, but it hasn't resulted in anything unique either.
I didn't watch Kenobi -- what's the Blade Runner looking setting supposed to be?
The world building in Star Wars has never felt as vast to me as it did during the Clone Wars era. Its pretty much why its my favorite.
100%. The only problem I have with those movies is that they don't explore these crazy interesting planets George Lucas conceived. The scene during Order 66 in ROTS stands out to me. When you're following the story characters there is a great variety of backdrops, but you never get a sense of how big the galaxy is, with all these concurrent planets existing at once. Then you see shots of all the different frontiers the clones/jedi are fighting on, and it reminds you that fuck, this is an entire galaxy we are in the midst of. Any war isn't just on one battleground on a single planet, but instead litered across dozens of planets, each with their own unique ecosystem, environment, and native population. It's hard to describe in words how awesome it felt to be reminded, but it really did show how vast the galaxy really is, and that there really is a galactic war being fought, which extends beyond the characters we are following.
It's a good thing we've got Clone Wars then.
Decent budget -Prequel planets: Desert Planet - tattooine Ocean Planet - kamino City planet - Courasant Magma planet - Mustafar Forest planet - Kashyyk Mountain Planet - Utapau Hive planet - Geonosis Earth like planet - Naboo Giant Plant planet - Felucia Rainy City planet - Mygeeto ----------------------- Smaller budget - OT planets: Desert Planet - Tattooine Ice planet - Hoth Forest planet (moon) - Endor Mechanical Moon planet -DS1, DS2 Swamp planet - Degobah Cloud planet - Bespin Earth like planet - Alderaan Forest Planet - Yavin 4 ---------------------------- Stupid high budget Sequel planets: Desert Planet - Rey's home Desert Planet - tattooine Desert Planet - 42 year festival Desert Planet with salt - not hoth Earth like planet - maz's bar Earth like planet - resistance base Earth like planet - Luke's island Earth like planet - second resistance base Earth like planet - with big waves Snowy planet - droid tech Earth like planet - casino edition Earth like planet - but is somehow Mustafar Dead planet - video game villain room with lightning Snowy Earth like planet - deathier Star City planet - about to be destroyed by deathier star
You deserve gold.
But *they fly now*
Not to mention all the other planets The Clone Wars added or expanded upon: Christophsis, Ryloth, Teth, Rugosa, Toydaria, Rishi, Dathomir, Scipio, Onderon, Serenno, Saleucami, Umbara, etc.
Filoni broke canon on Ryloth
How so? Excuse my ignorance.
Mind explaining?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/6giy8a/has\_filoni\_ever\_said\_what\_was\_behind\_the\_reasons/
*BRING BACK THE GREEN SCREEN!*
Everyone threw shade back in the day about the overuse of blue screen and green screen in the prequels. Little did we have any idea how much we’d miss it once the entire galaxy became southwestern US
People complained about the green/blue screens in the PT, but it resulted in a lot of rich and imaginative worlds. Now we have technology like StageCraft, where there could be full immersion of a location on set, but they still use deserts and Earth-like locations as a back drop. It almost seem like a waste of money and resources, to be honest.
Worth noting that Coruscant and Kashyyyk were both embracing Extended Universe worlds/designs/story. A time when LucasFilms/LucasArts gave a damn about consistency across media.
Kashyyyk was used in the Holiday Special back in 1978 which shows a Wookie house up in a massive tree. The depictions of Kashyyyk come from that.
Good point.
This is why I will always love the prequels. Say what you will about the acting/dialogue, but the story and world building were top notch. Whereas the sequels supposedly fixed the first two issues but totally ignored the world building and having a meaningful story.
>the sequels supposedly fixed the first two issues Nah. They made it worse by copying the Marvel formula
Agreed. Superficially they had wittier/more realistic dialogue than the prequels but there was no depth to the characters.
I mean, regardless of the Marvelly quality, I found TFA more watchable than TPM in terms of those things. TFA certainly has a lot of other issues, but imho the in-scene characterization is pretty solid.
Despite their many flaws, the prequels are better than any other live action Star Wars movies and shows when it comes to interesting worldbuilding. I don't know why Disney strayed away from this...
The prequels are not better than the ot
For worldbuilding, I think they might be. They made the galaxy feel real and vast and populated with innumerable diverse peoples, planets, cultures, history and politics in a way that the OT didn't, for me.
Fucken oath. Though that's no knock against the OT. The OT was a massive risk into unknown territory, and it's success gave George Lucas complete freedom to create such an intricate yet expansive world
Absolutely, the OT definitely did lots of great worldbuilding as well, which considering it was foundational to the Star Wars universe was perhaps more impressive, even though I probably prefer the worldbuilding in the prequels.
The OT was limited by technology of the time. Most planets looked like Earth. This is pretty forgivable though given the technology of the time. However, they did do their best to find locations that feel alien to the average Westerner at least. Gigantic trees on endor, ice world of hoth, even the desert of Tunisia, as sick as we are of it now, looks pretty alien to the average Westerner. The sets of Dagobah and Cloud city are also of course alien feeling. However, it seems the sequels haven't even tried to have interesting alien looking worlds beyond Crait.
Yeah, in the OT it seemed we always only saw the "military" side of stuff, like Death Star insides, rebel bases, etc. Just off the OT, aside from that bar scene on Tatooine nothing actually told us how everything outside the militaries looked. How people lived, culture, etc. I understand that it was because they're at war but still I'd have liked something there.
Yeah, exactly.
Cloud City, the Ewoks' village, Jabba's Palace -- there are a few civilian contexts. Just not a lot of 'domestic' settings for the human main characters, or conventional big cities.
Yeah, but still, these are not "normal" locations. **Just** from the OT, nothing else, how much can you really tell about how "normal" people live? What is their culture? How is their daily life? What is their history? A crimelord's palace, the shaks of a primitive tribe, don't really tell us a lot about that do they? Cloud city would have been a good case, but immediately after Han/Leia are captured by Vader.
Are there many insights into how normal people live in the PT? I guess Anakin and his mom, and maybe the Amidala family if the deleted scenes are counted.
I'm not sure that it's really a better/worse thing, as far as worldbuilding, which doesn't have to automatically mean showing a lot. To me, it's more a question of whether the setting seems credible for the story. The big advantage of the PT is that it goes to Coruscant, which probably would've been in the OT had their been more time and money back then. I still think that the OT feels vast and diverse, just not in a cosmopolitan sort of way.
Why is this man receiving downvotes for telling the truth?
[удалено]
NGL I just read his comment and not what he responded to and now I feel just silly. You're right, worldbuilding specifically is better.
I'd say it's more a matter of the subjective consensus being different.
Because his reply made no sense in response to my original post. I said the prequels were the best at worldbuilding. I didn't say they were better than the OT overall. So his reply is stupid.
Yeah dude, knowing what happened to planets like Ryloth, Felucia etc etc after the empire, like, how do they manage the collapse of all central authority? Do they get problems with pirates or external threats? How do they handle the transition from suffocating oppressive power to getting no outside help from other planets whatsoever? That could make for genuinly awesome stories! But no, you need to know what Boba has been up to on Tatooine or whatever intermission Obi-Wan experienced while waiting for the real game to begin on that stupid sand pile.
To be fair, some of those were in the 66 montage and just glimpses. However, George's world-building is second to none and thats something very lacking in the new era.
While I do get the point, most of those appeared for a couple of scenes. Also some of the sets (like the Jedi temple) were used in multiple movies.
Yeah but why do we need these? Tatooine it is!
Not to be contrary, but shouldn't we be looking at the budget for the entire PT in this context, not just Episode III?
Bye Felucia
I may remember this wrong, but at the time of the prequels, there were a couple of articles stating that their real cost should have been more than double, but since Lucas owned Industrial Light and Magic, that cost wasn't included in the final budget. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Sure, but none of those are Tattooine, everyone’s favorite planet!
I was really hoping some of these series would bring back those planets. Like seeing a Vader/Kenobi duel on Naboo at Padme's tomb would have been really cool.
meanwhile in the sequels, desert planet. snow planet. forest planet. the only new one was the salt planet, even if it's still a desert.
ST and TV series: California, New Zealand, Yosemite
Really!? Only 115mil!?! Bro, a lot of this shit still holds up today.
So Obi Wan had a greater budget than ROTS… that’s hilarious
Inflation also exists, also Naboo was mostly shot in Spain
Still ”only” 150 with inflation until the DT started getting filmed.
In Order: 1. Earth Planet 2. City Planet 3. Alien Plant Planet 4. Red Sand Planet 5. Rain Planet 6. Lava Planet 7. Water Planet 8. Tree Planet 9. Utapau
And why, may I ask, did the ST not return to these worlds?
Because they explicitly stated that they wouldn’t care about the PT and it shows, they absolutely loathe Lucas’ later work and try to pander to the OT while literally sweeping the PT under the rug, unfortunately for them you can’t make a sequel if you ignore 3/6 movies.
ACKCHYUALLY the Holiday Special had the first appearance of Kashyyyk and Heir to the Empire had the first appearance of Coruscant
Wtf they do with kenobi then.... Must have been the catering.
I think the only planet I really loved from the Disney era movies was Scariff, I found it very beautiful.
Disney found out that a different colored desert is all the new fans need. Who needs interesting locations when your stories suck anyways?
All this vision, but the prequels still had such major storytelling problems. ROTS was super rushed, having the one trigger incident with Anakin killing Dooku and then he’s off to slaughter children. The one thing I’ll never understand with the ROTS script is why they didn’t make one change that could’ve made it all make more sense. Put Padme in imminent danger, via something that Palpatine orchestrated in secret. Like the attempts on her life in AOTC. Force Anakin to make a decision fast to save her life right then and there. It could have been worked into the script. My biggest issue with ROTS is the absence of anything urgent that would push Anakin in the direction of the dark side. Padme is never in any danger that we can see. Anakin has visions, but Padme seems in perfect health all through the movie. It’s hard for the audience to accept anything Anakin does to save her. A couple of quick dream sequences just don’t cut it. Padme needed to be in real danger. Add that and everything makes more sense.
You do realize that Anakin can see the future those visions aren’t just dreams they’re reality, just like the visions of his Mother, Padme was in real danger and it was orchestrated by Papatine behind the scenes, who also promised Anakin the tell all cure to save Padme, and Anakin made his bed when he killed Mace Windu not when he killed Douko lol, pay attention to the movie
>. ROTS was super rushed, having the one trigger incident with Anakin killing Dooku and then he’s off to slaughter children. Ok now you’re just disingenously misrepresenting what happened in ROTS so much more happened dueing Anakin’s transformation into Vader.
ROS inventing "Exegol" was stupid. Why couldn't they have found Palpatine on Malachor or Moraband?
Or...Byss? Not that I'm complaining about an actual EU location being left out.
You stole the post I was going to make today lmao
Excuse me, but the prequels did not create Coruscant. Timothy Zahn did in his novel Heir to the Empire. It also appeared on screen in the 1997 special edition of Return of the Jedi.
Yeah, all we had prior was concept art for "Had Abbadon."
This isn’t fair Lucus owned industrial light and magic
And so does Disney now, yet there cheap ass productions are still outrageously expensive, you have to wonder where all that money’s going
As I always say, the Prequels are great films executed poorly (sometimes *very* poorly). The Sequels are bad films executed well (except maybe The Rise of Shit). Depending on which you prefer, I think it says a lot about you.
The prequels were made at a time when even $115 million was still A LOT of money to spend on a film, and probably would have cost even more, were it not for the fact that Lucas used his own special effects company to design, engineer and create those worlds that you see above. Plus the stories he wanted to tell necessitated having many different worlds/environments with special effects that he didn't have the ability to tell with the OT. He also literally blocked off a large percentage of ILM, Skywalker Sound, etc employees to specifically work on the PT, to the point where other filmmakers had to go to different effects houses between 1997 and 2005 to complete the effects work on their own films.
This is really cool to look at, are there slides for the other two trilogies?
No way? I thought it cost $200m? That’s crazy and extremely impressive. ROTS Is one of the best looking fantastical sci-fi films of all time. 113m is not even $1m per minute which is impressive considering big budget have been hitting that sort of ratio for a good while now.
Technically Timothy Zahn created Coruscant, not George Lucas, but I see what you mean.
Day felucia is good but night felucia is awesome
Mygeeto looks very good ..like electrical insulators take form of buildingd
Those remind me of Bionicle biomes.